The Delhi High court has directed Kingfisher Airlines to return all components leased out to it by Lufthansa Technik India following a petition by the latter that the carrier was using them even after it breached an obligation to make timely payments.
UA Fan
Sep 30, 09, 7:57 am
I am losing confidence in them surviving.
aniruddh77
Sep 30, 09, 12:19 pm
I am losing confidence in them surviving.
That statement could be applied to all FSCs in Indian aviation today ;-)
UA Fan
Oct 1, 09, 9:48 am
That statement could be applied to all FSCs in Indian aviation today ;-)
Even Jet? I think if one of the Big three collapse things will be okay. Hopefully that will be AI.
aniruddh77
Oct 1, 09, 10:15 am
Even Jet? I think if one of the Big three collapse things will be okay. Hopefully that will be AI.
Your "hopefully" suggests you aren't a big fan of AI, just like me. To answer your point:
AI - no need to mention the kind of s**t (just being polite, if u knew me, there aren't too many words that I won't use ;-) ) they are in now - financial problems, pilots strike (btw, poor imitation of 9W, that was !), parts returning, what not.
KF - Dr Mallya's assumed backyard, surviving because his spirits business (UB) can fund the airline's declining fortunes. Yes, a winding up petition has been presented, but no good can come of that sort of litigation ;-)
Jet - Well, if they stuck to FSC ops, then maybe they will survive. I personally think Konnect will kill them financially in the next 2 years.
Of course, these are just my personal views. As is my suggestion that if 9W and KF truly integrate (by that I mean even legally, which may require shedding egos on both sides) and one of them becomes the flagship LCC and the other a proper FSC, then perhaps yes. Right now, 9W and KF operating similar business models is inefficient.
SuperFlyBoy
Oct 1, 09, 10:47 am
(btw, poor imitation of 9W, that was !)Agreed! :D :p
aniruddh77
Oct 1, 09, 1:06 pm
Right now, 9W and KF operating similar business models is inefficient.
My previous post above was before I got a mail from KF saying all meals will now have to be paid for on KF Red flights (see thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/airlines-india/1001163-red-charge-food-10th-oct.html). :td::td:
Hate to say this, but I told you so ;)!
d3vski
Oct 1, 09, 3:32 pm
Even Jet are up a creek without a paddle.
i read an article which states they are 15,885 crore in debt. This comes to £2.01bn. shocking how things could get so bad!
and they cant even blame it on a pension deficit or labour costs as India has some of cheapest labour in the aviation world.
Well, I was speaking to an aviation expert and a 9W employee 2 days back. Turns out, that for each flight they operate these days, they barely manage to scrape the bottom and not always make up even the operating costs for that flight alone. By that I mean fuel, on-board food (that is, where they aren't charging for it), and parking, navigation, etc. Doesn't include even other direct flying costs like pro-rated salaries of crew, forget indirect costs (ground staff, airport rentals, office rentals, the works). So yes, up the creek, no paddle in sight.
I did hear about the proposed plan to sell off this property, but that's going to help them discharge only about a quarter of their total debt (which is mounting every day). God help them, indeed, all of Indian aviation.
SuperFlyBoy
Oct 2, 09, 6:21 am
Well, I was speaking to an aviation expert and a 9W employee 2 days back. Turns out, that for each flight they operate these days, they barely manage to scrape the bottom and not always make up even the operating costs for that flight alone. By that I mean fuel, on-board food (that is, where they aren't charging for it), and parking, navigation, etc. Doesn't include even other direct flying costs like pro-rated salaries of crew, forget indirect costs (ground staff, airport rentals, office rentals, the works). So yes, up the creek, no paddle in sight.
I did hear about the proposed plan to sell off this property, but that's going to help them discharge only about a quarter of their total debt (which is mounting every day). God help them, indeed, all of Indian aviation.And this is with mostly full loads???
I think that there is a bit of stretching the truth going on...just like when 7,500 fuel surcharge on a one-way DEL-BOM ticket was reportedly going towards fuel...*not*! (as we later found out!) :p
aniruddh77
Oct 2, 09, 7:32 am
And this is with mostly full loads???
I think that there is a bit of stretching the truth going on...just like when 7,500 fuel surcharge on a one-way DEL-BOM ticket was reportedly going towards fuel...*not*! (as we later found out!) :p
Not full loads, more like 60-65%. BTW, not many of 9w's flights have full loads these days...I suppose that's their break even point. But even occasional full flights won't blacken the deep red bottom line by much!
Mr. Bean
Oct 2, 09, 4:22 pm
sooo... how are the LCC's doing financially, then?
aniruddh77
Oct 4, 09, 12:44 am
sooo... how are the LCC's doing financially, then?
Only slightly better, but they benefit by (a) higher load levels on average, and (b) a slightly different (lower) cost structure for flight ops (landing, parking, navigation, etc). And this is just direct/operating costs. In the main, I think they benefit more by not having to set up large offices and staff them to excess. Plus, as they aren't on GDS and are entirely internet-based, they can change fares pretty quickly to react to market better (compare this to the almost 5 hours it takes for FSCs to effect fare changes). I think this is their biggest plus point.
As an aside, I believe during the recent 9W pilots strike, SpiceJet was charging INR 25K plus taxes on a BOM-XXX (can't remember where) sector, before the DGCA intervened to rationalise fares!