Seen on the CO forums ..

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Some interesting numbers from this blog, which I have no idea how reliable it is:

http://avindia.blogspot.com/

AI's non-stop BOM-JFK flights average 107 passengers (45% load) westbound and 87 passenger (36% load) eastbound on its new 238-seat 772LR.

DL's JFK-BOM is having about 70% LF.
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the actual post is at http://avindia.blogspot.com/2007/10/air-indias-new-york-direct-service-yet.html

The full article is here, including justification by AI why the load factors have not taken off: http://www.livemint.com/2007/10/18005522/Air-India8217s-MumbaiNew-Y.html

Just wait for the diwali/christmas rush to kick in and the flights should go full :)

The full article is here, including justification by AI why the load factors have not taken off: http://www.livemint.com/2007/10/18005522/Air-India8217s-MumbaiNew-Y.html

Just wait for the diwali/christmas rush to kick in and the flights should go full :)

Counterpoint being that CO is actually running full from BOM, and has been for quite some time while AI's load factors still remain low. Yes, their usual customer base of budget travelers returning home will pack planes Diwali / Christmas but at heavily discounted tix .. whereas CO seems to manage to sell fairly expensive tix on this route. [Still cheaper than flying a European carrier thanks to taxes that are an order of magnitude lower than on, say, AF]

CO 777s are very nice indeed and their 762s are a bit better than DL's too (as I found out on a trip BOM-ewr-DCA-iah-EZE-iah-ewr-BOM that just concluded yesterday night .. in a hotel room with a hopelessly screwed body clock after the return EZE-iah-ewr-BOM spread over 29 hours + 7 hours transit over the last two days, ouch).

I feel your pain... I hope not all was in coach :(

DL 767s are sooo bad, any other carrier tops it. I'm sure even the ancient UA 763 that was about to fly for Air Sahara would have been better than DL's 762

Coach, every single mile of it. CO doesn't take AF points at all. At least I could get exit row seats all the way thanks to being AF plat, thank god for small mercies.

Tons of legroom in a 772ER exit row certainly compensates for the seat pitch reduced from the usual 31" in a 3-3-3 config that CO seems to prefer :)

DL 767s are sooo bad, any other carrier tops it. I'm sure even the ancient UA 763 that was about to fly for Air Sahara would have been better than DL's 762

Delta doesn't have any 762's any more, retired its last dozen last year. Whether any other carrier's 763's top Delta's, I don't know.

Delta doesn't have any 762's any more, retired its last dozen last year. Whether any other carrier's 763's top Delta's, I don't know.

Right. DL does not have anymore 762 years ago. DL was selling B762 to Airborne Express during DL is current in chapter 11. Now on, DL is already emerge from bankruptcy in April 2007.

i have flown the non stop jfk-bom three times round trip in F. the majority of the legs i was the only f passenger. the first 2 times were really nice. the last trip has shown you cant teach an old dog new tricks. some of the flight crews are really nice however some of them are poorly trained. the pursers - nice as they are- are not empowered by mgmt to do anything other than abuse their staff or say they are sorry - deeply sorry - very deeply sorry etc.

thereafter on the return i decided to speak to a shift manager at bom. th fellow acted as if ai was the only game in town.

the problem is that mgmt either doesnt care or if you run into a person who it seems cares -- they cant do a darn thing because there is no ownership or empowerment of middle mgmt.

when i was finished the manager told me in the future I should do...........................

I showed him a few future tickets for AI jfk-bom-jfk trips i had with me and told him that if he wants to discuss the future

"the future is JET"

...

the problem is that mgmt either doesnt care or if you run into a person who it seems cares -- they cant do a darn thing because there is no ownership or empowerment of middle mgmt.

when i was finished the manager told me in the future I should do...........................

I showed him a few future tickets for AI jfk-bom-jfk trips i had with me and told him that if he wants to discuss the future

"the future is JET"

It is disappointing to see this attitude continue. I was really hoping that AI would change slowly with its new equipment and mission. Having load factors of 45% and a range of anecdotal feedback that managers have been the same is sad indeed.

I hope that senior management if focusing on "organization change management" to have at least middle management and ideally all of the staff understand the imperative for culture change more focused on customer to match the new planes and large investments in route expansion.

Brand new airplanes will not save the airline especially as the Indian skies are opened up with more countries.

[Still cheaper than flying a European carrier thanks to taxes that are an order of magnitude lower than on, say, AF]Really? Try LH - their J fares cost *more* in total than AF costs!

CO 777s are very nice indeed and their 762s are a bit better than DL's too (as I found out on a trip BOM-ewr-DCA-iah-EZE-iah-ewr-BOM that just concluded yesterday night .. in a hotel room with a hopelessly screwed body clock after the return EZE-iah-ewr-BOM spread over 29 hours + 7 hours transit over the last two days, ouch).Hey, how did that go? Any op-ups on the CO flight - was it comfortable in Y? (Edited to Add: Sorry - saw your subsequent post right now!)

Have you ever done the SQ21/22 A345 to compare the CO flight with that one?? Interested to know!!

I showed him a few future tickets for AI jfk-bom-jfk trips i had with me and told him that if he wants to discuss the future

"the future is JET"^!

Let us know how your Jet (9w) flights go - if you fly them in either J or F! ;)

I mean that DL / NW etc taxes are like 2000 or 2500 in Y, where AF taxes + fuel surcharge will be closer to 20K or so, for an India - USA flight.

Both my employer and an agency that I consult for are not the J paying sort unfortunately so while I travel a lot, I earn plat the hard way, in Y :(

The CO trip was pure hell, 30 hours in one exit row after the other - 762 EZE-IAH, a 767 exit row IAH-EWR that suddenly became a random aisle seat on a 757 thanks to an equipment change, and then a 772 exit row EWR-BOM. CO doesnt normally op-up AF elites, or even their own elites on international routes and they dont take AF miles either, so it was all in coach.

I flew SQ SIN-SFO nonstop just ONCE. And once is enough, transpac seems to give me far more jetlag than TATL.

Really? Try LH - their J fares cost *more* in total than AF costs!

Hey, how did that go? Any op-ups on the CO flight - was it comfortable in Y? (Edited to Add: Sorry - saw your subsequent post right now!)

Have you ever done the SQ21/22 A345 to compare the CO flight with that one?? Interested to know!!

I tried booking business class tickets in a decent window of opportunity during Dec-Jan winter holiday time. AI was completely sold out. Surprisingly, availability was fine on LH, SQ and ANA for SFO-South India. Ended up flying business class LH one way and ANA another with one family with a slightly different schedule flying on SQ. AI was sold on all days we traveled - so I find it hard to believe that load factors are stil bad.