What does the typical German think about all the various "Oktoberfest" celebrations in the US?

In Georgia there is the one in the town of Helen which seems to last from early September until November. There was also one in Atlanta this past weekend. (Link below)

Do they find it amusing? Are they annoyed by it?

No real reason for wanting to know...........just curious.

Munich-bound in 4 days!:D

http://projects.accessatlanta.com/gallery/view/events/1007oktoberfest/

I once experienced an Octoberfest in Florida with "wum-ta-ta" music, costumed Floridians drinking beer out of plastic stones and eating Sauerkraut with French Fries (or French Fries sodded in Sauerkraut). Not annoying at all, simply as ammusing as seeing tenthousands of normal people in Munich getting crazy once a year at the real thing.

The typical German never ever goes to "the" Oktoberfest. This is reserved for two million Bavarians, another million not-typical-Germans from all over Germany and three million foreigners costumed as Bavarians. I was forced to be there last weekend and once again my statement: Never ever again.

I once experienced an Octoberfest in Florida with "wum-ta-ta" music, costumed Floridians drinking beer out of plastic stones and eating Sauerkraut with French Fries (or French Fries sodded in Sauerkraut). Not annoying at all, simply as ammusing as seeing tenthousands of normal people in Munich getting crazy once a year at the real thing.

The typical German never ever goes to "the" Oktoberfest. This is reserved for two million Bavarians, another million not-typical-Germans from all over Germany and three million foreigners costumed as Bavarians. I was forced to be there last weekend and once again my statement: Never ever again.

Interesting distinction. Is there really that much of a disconnect between Bavarians and Germans not from or living in Bavaria?

Interesting distinction. Is there really that much of a disconnect between Bavarians and Germans not from or living in Bavaria?

Not at all a disconnect. However, to enjoy Oktoberfest (and not only the drinking) you must have some links with Bavarian culture, humor and habits. As a New Yorker, maybe this is a good comparism, you might not really enjoy a Texas rodeo as a Texan would do it?!

Interesting distinction. Is there really that much of a disconnect between Bavarians and Germans not from or living in Bavaria?

yes it is !!! and unfortunately, in some countries (Japan & US especially) they have the formula bavarian=german. and thats so not true as a new yorker is a californian ;)

when I have time I'll develop any further since I wrote a master thesis about this subject.

In the last place I lived in Bavaria, we had the maypole raised outside my building, and the beer garden was in our parking lot. :) It was a village of 5,000 people.

That to me was 'typical' of Bavarian celebration. I have been to a few of the 'German' towns in North America and found them sad misrepresentations of Germany and/or Bavaria. I also find Oktoberfest to be mainly put on for (American) tourists, and I don't feel any urge to visit during that time. To me it is similar to the Tirolean 'culture nights' put on for foreign tourists.

I can appreciate the comparison of a New Yorker at a Texas rodeo. There are so many different regional variables in Germany. Just think about regional traditions such as Krampus, for instance. Those are much more interesting to me than the overdone, overly touristy Oktoberfest.

Everybody knows that the typical German goes on a pilgrimage once a year to attend the Oktoberfest celebrations in Munich. The male members of the tribe dance to oompah music dressed in the German national dress lederhosen and Sepplhut while the women are merrily jodeling along in their dirndles. During the Oktoberfest the Germans drink gallons of strong beer and devour mountains of sauerkraut with large knackwurst. Should you encounter a German who does not eat his knackwurst it is probably because there is a painting hidden inside it. Since an extended visit to their French neigbours the Germans have perfected this form of transport for valuable pieces of art.

While visiting the Oktoberfest you might wish to use the swimming pool facilities of your hotel. It is highly recommended to do so well before sunrise. Germans usually get up at six in the morning and put their towels on the deckchairs around the pool to reserve them for later use.

Of course, while in Munich you will also wish to talk to some natives. That is perfectly fine and will be welcomed. But, whatever you want to talk about, there is one rule that must be obeyed at all times: Don't mention the war! - I mentioned it once, but I think I just about got away with it.

TomUK

Everybody knows that the typical German goes on a pilgrimage once a year to attend the Oktoberfest celebrations in Munich. The male members of the tribe dance to oompah music dressed in the German national dress lederhosen and Sepplhut while the women are merrily jodeling along in their dirndles. During the Oktoberfest the Germans drink gallons of strong beer and devour mountains of sauerkraut with large knackwurst. Should you encounter a German who does not eat his knackwurst it is probably because there is a painting hidden inside it. Since an extended visit to their French neigbours the Germans have perfected this form of transport for valuable pieces of art.

While visiting the Oktoberfest you might wish to use the swimming pool facilities of your hotel. It is highly recommended to do so well before sunrise. Germans usually get up at six in the morning and put their towels on the deckchairs around the pool to reserve them for later use.

Of course, while in Munich you will also wish to talk to some natives. That is perfectly fine and will be welcomed. But, whatever you want to talk about, there is one rule that must be obeyed at all times: Don't mention the war! - I mentioned it once, but I think I just about got away with it.

TomUK

you resumed with a few lines for what I needed 100pages in my thesis :D ^ ;)

But, whatever you want to talk about, there is one rule that must be obeyed at all times: Don't mention the war! - I mentioned it once, but I think I just about got away with it.TomUK

Good story, however there is at least truth in the last sentence, especially because certain UK youngsters being educated by sophisticated British TV have a tendency to great Germans with "Deutschem Gruß" or even worse.

I also find Oktoberfest to be mainly put on for (American) tourists, and I don't feel any urge to visit during that time.

Well considering that I was at the Oktoberfest this year and mingled as much as I could with said "American" tourists... I'd dare to say the majority of tourists are from Italy or Australia. I did not run into any american tourists during my stay, but ran into some canadians, aussies (many), italians (even more) and even my brethren french-canadians, some scotts, some irish. It's a great big melting pot of cultures.

I wouldn't be caught dead in lederhosen unless I had been living in Bavaria for 10+ years and really fit in the mentality. I even said to my buddy: "It would take a lot of b*lls for a man to wear lederhosen and NOT be Bavarian".

Of course I might find foreigners wearing the "ceinture flèchée" rather b*llsy if they wore that at the winter carnival in Quebec city!

On the other hand, I had a great time everywhere I went, people were welcoming just about everywhere (some wait staff were tired but that's to be expected at such a big event...)

JP

Good story, however there is at least truth in the last sentence, especially because certain UK youngsters being educated by sophisticated British TV have a tendency to great Germans with "Deutschem Gruß" or even worse.


So far I have only seen the "Deutsche Gruß" being used by certain German youngsters.

TomUK

I find those various "Oktoberfests" all over the world rather amusing (as long as no one forces me to attend), just like the German style kangaroo mettwurst we got in Hahndorf, South Australia.

Well, there are people in Germany whose weekend activities, which they take very seriously, involve learning everything about the life of Indians, dressing up as Indians and pretending to be an Indian tribe.

If people enjoy themselves, so what.

On the other hand, the rest of Germany is slightly annoyed about the above-mentioned formula Bavaria = Germany.

P.S. I've been to the real Oktoberfest once and have no inclination to go again.

So far I have only seen the "Deutsche Gruß" being used by certain German youngsters.

TomUK

Lucky you, living in Sussex or Surrey. I am still living part of my life in east London and I can assure you it is different. However: I remember at least one British youngster who even made it to the front page of the sun in a certain swastika outfit.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40716000/jpg/_40716791_sun203ok.jpg

And pls. don't tell me this is only because of German roots.

And just to refresh memory (and I am not referring anyhow to that drunken kid): Remember the "National Front" winning 119,000 votes in the Greater London Council elections of 1977? Or national organiser Martin Webster winning 16.2 percent of the vote in West-Bromwich? I certainly do. And what about the BNP and it's recent (back to FT) idea to "ban immediately, ALL MUSLIMS from flying out of (and in to) Britain"? Closing our eyes and pretending that we do not have a problem in Britain will certainly not help.

BTW: The "Deutsche Gruß" and the Uniform and the swastika are prohibited by law in Germany. I only pray that Britain and in particular the US will follow that example to get rid of the brown scum

On the other hand, the rest of Germany is slightly annoyed about the above-mentioned formula Bavaria = Germany.

Unfortunatly or fortunatly Bavaria is one of the best spots in Germany. And I will certainly not go mad simply because being asked if I enjoy my Lederhosen and how many stones of beer I drink every day. Aren't there certain pictures we draw internally when talking about certain countries? The Italians eating Pizza all day long, the US Americans chewing chewinggum and eating Hamburgers all day long and the Russians drinking Wodka from sunrise to sunset.....

I once experienced an Octoberfest in Florida with "wum-ta-ta" music, costumed Floridians drinking beer out of plastic stones and eating Sauerkraut with French Fries (or French Fries sodded in Sauerkraut). Not annoying at all, simply as ammusing as seeing tenthousands of normal people in Munich getting crazy once a year at the real thing.

The typical German never ever goes to "the" Oktoberfest. This is reserved for two million Bavarians, another million not-typical-Germans from all over Germany and three million foreigners costumed as Bavarians. I was forced to be there last weekend and once again my statement: Never ever again.

Right. ^

Jedem Tierchen sein Plaisirchen...

If South Floridans enjoy their Oktoberfest, OK, it doesn't have much in common with the Munich version, but who cares.

In the last place I lived in Bavaria, we had the maypole raised outside my building, and the beer garden was in our parking lot. :) It was a village of 5,000 people.

That to me was 'typical' of Bavarian celebration. I have been to a few of the 'German' towns in North America and found them sad misrepresentations of Germany and/or Bavaria. I also find Oktoberfest to be mainly put on for (American) tourists, and I don't feel any urge to visit during that time. To me it is similar to the Tirolean 'culture nights' put on for foreign tourists.

I can appreciate the comparison of a New Yorker at a Texas rodeo. There are so many different regional variables in Germany. Just think about regional traditions such as Krampus, for instance. Those are much more interesting to me than the overdone, overly touristy Oktoberfest.

Is it really that different? I was in Munich in 2005 and ran into a group of folks brom Bremen who were in town for a soccer game. They really didn't seem that much different from the locals I have met.

Not calling you a liar or anything..............I'm sure there are differences between Bavarians and non-Bavarian Germans even if this dumbbutt American can't see them. But in US culture there really couldn't be a bigger difference between someone from NYC and someone from Texas...........and considering how big and diverse the US is, thats really saying something.

Well, it was once best explained to me that Germany is like Canada, and the Bavarians like the Quebecois - different language, different food, etc.

There are MANY regions of Germany each with its own food specialties, dialect, mode of traditional dress, but none with so strong an identity as Bavaria, I would suggest.

Think of Texas and how it is so large, and has such an influence on the worldwide impression of the United States - BBQ, the drawl, for instance.

Is it really that different? I was in Munich in 2005 and ran into a group of folks brom Bremen who were in town for a soccer game. They really didn't seem that much different from the locals I have met.

Not calling you a liar or anything..............I'm sure there are differences between Bavarians and non-Bavarian Germans even if this dumbbutt American can't see them. But in US culture there really couldn't be a bigger difference between someone from NYC and someone from Texas...........and considering how big and diverse the US is, thats really saying something.

Just imagine that Bavaria was a seperate Kindom until 1918, had own stamps, an own railway company and even voted against the German constitution after WWII. Bavaria is a 75 percent catholic state, with huge argriculture areas. Prussia, just as the natural enemy, is protestant, had an own King too and the King of Prussia was Emperor of Germany.

The folks you met will certainly not be "that" different, especially for a foreigner, as long as you do not start to discuss local rivalties. However, the language is as different as in Texas and NY. However, for a European the difference between someone from Texas and New York might not be obvious on first sight....

Well, it was once best explained to me that Germany is like Canada, and the Bavarians like the Quebecois - different language, different food, etc.

I believe Quebec is a little bit too strong. Bavarian dialect is still German, the food differences between Bavaria and - eg - Baden are not that great and the Bavarians have stopped pleading for an independance long ago.

the Bavarians have stopped pleading for an independance long ago.

Correct, and the Quebecois are also a little less vocal these days than they were in the 1970's and 1980's. Maybe Scotland is a better example? although they have their own parliament now, don't they?

I do find this an interesting discussion! And there is also the variances within Bavaria. In smaller towns local fervour seems to be stronger than in the more diverse, cosmopolitan cities.

I would turn the question around and ask if any other German state or region has such well defined culture and language? or comes close?

OP, thank you for the thought provoking question!

Bavaria is one of the very states still (more or less) exisiting in its historical borders and looking back to a long standing history and is different from the new "artificial states" in the West like

Nordrhein-Westfalen (several historical territories)
Rheinland-Pfalz (three or more historical territories)
Hessen (several historical territories)
Niedersachsen (five historical territories)
Baden-Württemberg (three historical territories)

Suprisingly the most comparable states in terms of "indenpendence", own history or "independent feeling" might be

Saarland (even enjoyed some kind independance until 1956)
Hamburg (the real Hamburgers (not the McD ones) are different
Bremen (see Hamburg)
Schleswig Holstein (only two small historical territories)

The city of Berlin is a seperate state but a melting pot. Brandenburg is a part of the old Prussion Kingdom but several people there felt occupied by the Prussians in the past, so no real identiy. Saxony might be a good example of a state with identiy. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Sachen-Anhalt, I do not know. Thuringia has not historical identity but I believe they built something like this in the post 1990 times.

Schleswig Holstein (only two small historical territories)



Three.

Schleswig. Holstein. And the Hanseatic City of Lübeck which only ceased to be the FREE Hanseatic City of Lübeck in 1937.

Just imagine that Bavaria was a seperate Kindom until 1918, had own stamps, an own railway company and even voted against the German constitution after WWII. Bavaria is a 75 percent catholic state, with huge argriculture areas. Prussia, just as the natural enemy, is protestant, had an own King too and the King of Prussia was Emperor of Germany.

The folks you met will certainly not be "that" different, especially for a foreigner, as long as you do not start to discuss local rivalties. However, the language is as different as in Texas and NY. However, for a European the difference between someone from Texas and New York might not be obvious on first sight....

Ok, I can buy that. If you're a German in a American bar and you meet someone from Texas and another person from NYC you might not see many differences outside of the accent. But without a doubt there are significant differences.

I'll be in Bavaria and B-W next week..........I'll try to pay closer attention to who I meet and see if I can spot the differences.

I'll be in Bavaria and B-W next week..........I'll try to pay closer attention to who I meet and see if I can spot the differences.

That will be not that easy. B-W and Bavaria can be very similar. If you travel, eg. to Ulm you will have Ulm on the west bank ot the river in B-W and Neu-Ulm on the east bank in Bavaria.

However, you might spot substantial differences if you compare eg Haidmühle, a small village in the east of Bavaria at the Czech border to Lörrach in B-W close to the Swiss and French border you might believe that these are two different worlds.

B-W is an interesting historical elephant (here: simplified). For about 200 years (since early 1800) Württemberg (mostly protestant) was an independent Kingdom and Baden (mostly catholic) was an independent Grand Duchy. Almost in the middle of both was the Hohenzollern principality, where the Prussian Kings (die "Hohenzollern") had their roots and these parts were part of the Prussian Kingdom for quite a while.

I would turn the question around and ask if any other German state or region has such well defined culture and language? or comes close?

I think every region in Germany has its own distinctive cultural heritage but to a foreigner it might not be as in your face as lederhosen and dirndl in Bavaria. When it comes to languages, well, in Bavaria they speak a German dialect whereas in the North of Germany in addition to German they also speak Plattdeutsch (Low German) which is a language in its own right.

This reminds me of a story my uncle once told me. During WWII he was serving in the Royal Air Force and after the end of the war he was posted to the North of Germany as an interpreter. One of his comrades - who was from Scotland - became quite attached to a German girl and asked her to teach him German, which she did. The only problem was that the girl could only speak Low German but not standard German. I think it must have been very funny listening to somebody speaking Low German with a Scottish accent. All his fellow soldiers knew that she could not speak proper German but somehow omitted to tell him. :D

TomUK

in the 1990s, I had the pleasure of experiencing a real authentic Octoberfest in dwontown Denver at Larimer Square. It was so authentic that the only beer that they had on tap was Coors.:confused:

Pure lameness.

JP

in the 1990s, I had the pleasure of experiencing a real authentic Octoberfest in dwontown Denver at Larimer Square. It was so authentic that the only beer that they had on tap was Coors.:confused:

in the 1990s, I had the pleasure of experiencing a real authentic Octoberfest in dwontown Denver at Larimer Square. It was so authentic that the only beer that they had on tap was Coors.:confused:

Oktoberfest in Helen, GA.........a town in the North Georgia mountains that was specifically built to resemble a Bavarian village...........consists of nearby locals in camo hats and wife beaters drinking Bud (The American version) and Natural Light out of plastic 32 oz cups. At the town's hotspot.........the Wursthaus.......you can sit outside and take in the atmosphere as you listen to a one man band play "Margaritaville" and various Hank Jr. songs. Far from being authentic Bavaria, but still entertaining.

Oddly enough, if you could drive through the middle of Helen at about 40 mph you just might think you are in a real Bavarian village. The mountains and architecture give it that vibe. Unfortunately, thats not possible due to car and horse carriage traffic.

Oktoberfest in Helen, GA.........a town in the North Georgia mountains that was specifically built to resemble a Bavarian village...........consists of nearby locals in camo hats and wife beaters drinking Bud (The American version) and Natural Light out of plastic 32 oz cups. At the town's hotspot.........the Wursthaus.......you can sit outside and take in the atmosphere as you listen to a one man band play "Margaritaville" and various Hank Jr. songs. Far from being authentic Bavaria, but still entertaining.

Oddly enough, if you could drive through the middle of Helen at about 40 mph you just might think you are in a real Bavarian village. The mountains and architecture give it that vibe. Unfortunately, thats not possible due to car and horse carriage traffic.

They do have real German beer there, but they have the other stuff too. It does have a bit of German atmosphere and certainly some of the food is authentic. I live not too far away and do enjoy a day trip there occaisionally. I am reminded of Bavaria, and it is a lot cheaper than flying over the pond.

They do have real German beer there, but they have the other stuff too. It does have a bit of German atmosphere and certainly some of the food is authentic. I live not too far away and do enjoy a day trip there occaisionally. I am reminded of Bavaria, and it is a lot cheaper than flying over the pond.

Certainly. Maybe we should come over and have our beer there. It could be a good deal with the weak Dollar. I remember having had my cheapest 0.5 Paulaner Weissbier in Kapstadt for about 12 Rand which was close to 1,30 Euro that time. Half the price I would have paid in MUC but the view towards Table Mountain and 25 degrees Celsius and sun in November included.

Not at all a disconnect. However, to enjoy Oktoberfest (and not only the drinking) you must have some links with Bavarian culture, humor and habits. As a New Yorker, maybe this is a good comparism, you might not really enjoy a Texas rodeo as a Texan would do it?!

Actually you can be a Texan and not enjoy a Texas or any other kind of rodeo.

With regard to the OP's question, isn't the modern Munich Oktoberfest also a parody of the original?

And on the subject of lederhosen, I have no desire to wear lederhosen nor a sepplhut, but I do think the dressier Bavarian and Austrian trachten are very attractive, and I wish I could get away with wearing something like that in place of an American business suit sometimes.

Well, here (http://gallery.mac.com/ricopress#100051&view=mosaic&bgcolor=black&sel=47) are 84 pics from this year's Oktoberfest. They are showing the real thing. Feel free to compare this with any American "fake". ;)

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/114)

Not at all a disconnect. However, to enjoy Oktoberfest (and not only the drinking) you must have some links with Bavarian culture, humor and habits. As a New Yorker, maybe this is a good comparism, you might not really enjoy a Texas rodeo as a Texan would do it?!

Actually you can be a Texan and not enjoy a Texas or any other kind of rodeo.

Believe me, you can be a Bavarian not enjoying Oktoberfest too

Believe me, you can be a Bavarian not enjoying Oktoberfest too

i can underline this aspect (as a Bavarian)

Well, here (http://gallery.mac.com/ricopress#100051&view=mosaic&bgcolor=black&sel=47) are 84 pics from this year's Oktoberfest. They are showing the real thing. Feel free to compare this with any American "fake". ;)

oh my god ... what a reason to be a proud Franconian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia) and not a real Bavarian :D

Well really, Oktoberfest is what you make it. Of course... the rest of the attendees may try to make you have it their way :D:D:D

I attended O-fest 2007 in Munchen, and I was just at a small local one in Columbia SC this wk-end. While nowhere near the real thing, it was still enjoyable; a good number of Germans were in attendance (if that's a sign of interest). Food was excellent, entertainment was a lot more sedate (That's the understatement of the year!)

All in all, a good time.

JP

Well, here (http://gallery.mac.com/ricopress#100051&view=mosaic&bgcolor=black&sel=47) are 84 pics from this year's Oktoberfest. They are showing the real thing. Feel free to compare this with any American "fake". ;)

A friend took me to the Oktoberfest at Lotte World in Seoul. I had never been to an amusement park Oktoberfest before, but it was a lot worse than the sometimes at least reasonably charming Oktoberfest celebrations in small-town America. As for the original, I loved it as a kid, but haven't been back in over a decade.

I know Austrians in Vienna and in the Austrian alps that attend Oktoberfest, but my friends in Germany avoid it-I think because it's so commercial now.

My opinion is that is pretty embarrassing. There is just one real Oktoberfest and that's in Munich, Bavaria. Why copy it? I don't like copies at all.

My hope is that not too many people believe it's the way those copies take place. It's really worth traveling to the original!!!