Went to the Met Wash Airport website for info about the trains that will replace (most of) the moon buggies beginning in 2009.

There will be no train stations in either the C or D Concourses (those are "temporary" concourses!). Instead, a station is being built at the site of the "future" midfield concourse, and there will be a tunnel walkway for pax to "double back" to C. There will be no tunnel walkway to the D Concourse. From D, the moon buggies will operate, apparently, only to the Main Terminal. There will be no moon buggies from A to D (D to A), or, from A to C (C to A), or, from the Main Terminal to C (C to Main Terminal) once the trains are operating.

So, for pax connecting to/from the A Concourse, it's going to be ugly. If you're landing at A and connecting to a flight leaving from D, you'll either have to 1) take the train back to the Main Terminal, then take the moon buggy to D (no A to D moon buggy); or, 2) take the train to the (future) Midfield Concourse station, take the tunnel walkway back to C, then walk from C to D.

What is the cost of this "improvement?"

According to the web site, the first phase will have a buildout cost of around $1.3 billion. Based on a 30-year amortization and assuming a 5% debt cost, debt service alone will be $80 million a year. IAD currently has pax traffic of slightly less than 12 million a year. Assuming every one of those pax uses the train (which they won't), the per passenger cost - just for debt service - is $7. That's before salaries, benefits, maintenance and other operating costs.

Gotta love it!

Who the hell decided to build temporary concourses in the first place? What's that all about?

I'm so glad IAD isn't my home airport anymore...

Many of us unfortunate IADers knew some of these details but we've been trying to ignore them. Hell, look at the bright side, the trains won't likely be operational for another 10 years anyway!

In before the move over to the DC forum... :D

But I agree...IAD is utter ridiculousness.

I have always felt bad for the moon buggy drivers. I equated it to my grandmother’s career as a telephone operator, removing one plug and inserting it into another.

Who wins in the in before the post moves game?

Who the hell decided to build temporary concourses in the first place? What's that all about?

I'm so glad IAD isn't my home airport anymore...

IAD will soon be out of the cards for me, as well. Hello, Hartsfield, in my case!

I'm glad the old "Greyhound" concourse was temporary; they couldn't have torn down Concourse G fast enough for my liking! I wonder how many other temporary concourses there are? My guess is Concourse B is permanent since it's by far the nicest area of the airport, in my opinion. Just watch...they'll keep A and tear down B. :rolleyes:

I'm glad the old "Greyhound" concourse was temporary; they couldn't have torn down Concourse G fast enough for my liking!

Oh, yea - good ole' warehouse G.

Sounds like a typical Washington DC project. Under scope, over budget and disregards it's constituents.

I'm sure it's not as bad as Boston's Big Dig.... or is it?!

Please follow this in the Washington DC forum.

l'etoile
UA moderator

IAD currently has pax traffic of slightly less than 12 million a year.IAD will serve around 25 million pax this year. They had 23 million last year. See:

http://www.mwaa.com/dulles/about_dulles_international_2/air_traffic_statistics

I can't wait til those Mobile Lounges are for sale on eBay. I am sooooo ready to own one!

This is going to add so much to the IAD experience! Dear UA, you decided to make every one fly through IAD and this is what they will have to deal with. The new AA terminal at JFK is very nice for your information.

This is going to add so much to the IAD experience! Dear UA, you decided to make every one fly through IAD and this is what they will have to deal with. The new AA terminal at JFK is very nice for your information.UA doesn't "make" anyone fly through any airport - it's your choice when booking the flight. :rolleyes: You like JFK & AA, so stick with the airport & airline.

Who the hell decided to build temporary concourses in the first place? What's that all about? The temporary nature of the C/D terminals is from the time of Dulles roots, when they used to have all flights from the main terminal and then needed to expand. It was before remote terminals were a known quantity, and those "trailers" that comprise C/D were installed until a more permanent structure could be built. We're still waiting ....

Many of us unfortunate IADers knew some of these details but we've been trying to ignore them. Hell, look at the bright side, the trains won't likely be operational for another 10 years anyway!I So agree with this, unfortunately.

UA doesn't "make" anyone fly through any airport - it's your choice when booking the flight. :rolleyes: You like JFK & AA, so stick with the airport & airline.

The temporary nature of the C/D terminals is from the time of Dulles roots, when they used to have all flights from the main terminal and then needed to expand. It was before remote terminals were a known quantity, and those "trailers" that comprise C/D were installed until a more permanent structure could be built. We're still waiting ....

I So agree with this, unfortunately.

Well, no, UA does make people fly through their hubs and so if they are poorly chosen, that effects the flyer and ultimately the carrier. The fact that I have a shade under 900,000 miles on UA would indicate that I did prefer them at some time and I am still trying to make 1K this year but it is looking iffy. Having to deal with the above described faisco and its implications for my decision making in chosing flights and a carrier is something I will comment on if I chose, thank you.

[QUOTE=GoingAway;8341716]
The temporary nature of the C/D terminals is from the time of Dulles roots, when they used to have all flights from the main terminal and then needed to expand. It was before remote terminals were a known quantity, and those "trailers" that comprise C/D were installed until a more permanent structure could be built. We're still waiting ....
QUOTE]

Not exactly. When Dulles first opened, all the planes were parked where C/D now stands - and the mobile lounges transported passengers from the Main Terminal directly to the planes. See: http://www.metwashairports.com/dulles/about_dulles_international_2/history_2
Where C/D now stands there originally existed single-story facilities for baggage handling and plane servicing. As I recall, Presidential Airways was the first to build facilities above the west end of the single-story structure in the mid-80s and provide gates and jetways as we now know them.

Over time, some 14 T-gates (T for Temporary) were built attached to the Main Terminal. These were used for smaller commuter-type planes for several years. The T gates were demolished as part of the Aerotrain construction and are being replaced with the Z-gates (Z6-Z10 currently in operation for US Airways).

A permanent replacement for C/D was started around 2000, but construction was halted with the economic downturn in 2000/2001. The fact that the Aerotrain station is being built at the site of the yet-to-be-built permanent C-Concourse bodes well for its eventual buildout.

From previous employment, I have learned passenger service took a back seat to cargo operations for a good part of the '90s at IAD which has now lead to the aches and pains of today's expansion. Planning for the now and forgetting about the future never happens in DC. :rolleyes:

the trains won't likely be operational for another 10 years anyway!

Actually, they're on schedule to rollout by 2009. Metro to Dulles in another story.

According to the web site, the first phase will have a buildout cost of around $1.3 billion. Based on a 30-year amortization and assuming a 5% debt cost, debt service alone will be $80 million a year. IAD currently has pax traffic of slightly less than 12 million a year. Assuming every one of those pax uses the train (which they won't), the per passenger cost - just for debt service - is $7. That's before salaries, benefits, maintenance and other operating costs.


Just 6% of the authority's budget comes from pax fees. Concessions are the largest source of revenue - about 45%. Additionally, because the service will be free, the bonds are general obligation, not revenue bonds tied to how many people use the train.

That said, I think it would have been a better use of funds to do the new C/D before the 4th runway. Each costs about the same, but with most of the other major projects wrapping up, funds to break ground on the new term should be avail by the 2009 or 2010 capital budget.

Actually, they're on schedule to rollout by 2009...Dream on (sorry, I couldn't resist).

Just 6% of the authority's budget comes from pax fees. Concessions are the largest source of revenue - about 45%

There you have it. At least 51% of MWAAHAHA's budget comes directly from pax pockets, not counting our share of landing and other fees.

There you have it. At least 51% of MWAAHAHA's budget comes directly from pax pockets, not counting our share of landing and other fees.

so from where should it come, if not ultimately from the people who use the terminal?