Is it just me or are there more reasons to avoid Finnair now than ever? Here are a few things that have bothered me recently.

Finnair Plus:
- the fiasco with the Finnair plus web site
- points not posting
- mostly only 50% points (on Finnish domestic flights on all other booking classes than Y!)

European flights:
- the Embraer experience: no warm food in Y, no business class seating
- the new plastic LCC style slimline seats on A320, A321

Long-haul:
- the poor reliability of the MD11 operations
- cramped economy seating on the MD11's
- poor food offerings

Domestic Finnish operations:
- less and less routes and flights operated
- uncertainty of Finncomm operations (problems with pilots, flight cancellations etc.)

So I get the feeling that Finnair has turned much worse than what it was within a year or so. On the other hand it seems to me that SK and KF are offering much lower prices and friendlier service. If they would improve schedules and get rid of the P-class concept, they could soon be a good alternative to AY also from and within Finland?

- mostly only 50% pointsThat IMHO is a reason to join :) Lots of programs only give 25%...
- the new plastic LCC style slimline seats on A320, A321Yes, that alone is enough reason for me to want to avoid them. I'm still in shock about this, as before those seats I did regard Finnair as one of the best European airlines, both in Y and C. At least the service is still just about as good as it always was.

I'm still in shock about this, as before those seats I did regard Finnair as one of the best European airlines, both in Y and C.Yeah, me too. That's why I have been choosing Finnair even with the risk of loosing my EBG. Actually the LCC's I accept to fly (AirBerlin and Blue1) now have much better seats than Finnair!At least the service is still just about as good as it always was.I'm not sure about this. The service can be excellent but sometimes it is just awful. Or maybe this is the way it always was :D.

- the fiasco with the Finnair plus web site

I wasn't affected by that because I post to BAEC. So I can still fly with Finnair?

- mostly only 50% points (on Finnish domestic flights on all other booking classes than Y!)

Compared to SK/KF who give you 25% on the cheapest fares, 50% is very good.

- the new plastic LCC style slimline seats on A320, A321

If I remember correctly, there was just a thread in SK forum that SK has installed similar seats into their A321s. I don't know if they are exactly like Finnair's but how many different seats can you get into the Airbus?

- the poor reliability of the MD11 operations
- cramped economy seating on the MD11's
- poor food offerings

These are quite bad ... but with food. Who is giving any decent food anyway these days?

On the other hand it seems to me that SK and KF are offering much lower prices and friendlier service. If they would improve schedules and get rid of the P-class concept, they could soon be a good alternative to AY also from and within Finland?

Yeah, they are good unless you fly in P-class. In that class you will pay the same as with Finnair but you will not get as much points and you will have the nice option of paying for your meal.

I am someone who has pretty much stopped flying at all with SK because my work travel is pretty much in Economy anyway and SK experience isn't that fun really. And the last leisure flight with SK in the last February was also in Economy and it costed quite much but I got only 25% of points. And nothing to eat ... LH on the other hand gave at least a sandwich.

I am a person who stopped flying with Finnair completely something like 5 years ago because of the service issues I was seeing that time. I switched completely to SAS, which was just so awesome that time compared to Finnair. Then SAS started to come down and I found myself (for various reasons) on flying to PVG on Finnair on September 2006 - that wasn't so bad experience (ex-VS A340) so I decided to lift the ban from them. I made a decision not to touch their Finnair Plus but use BAEC. But at the moment I am still in the position where my travel is going to the airline, which seems to fit the job at the time of booking - most likely I will not be holding any Elite status on the next year.

This year I have been flying surprisingly much with Finnair and I have also experienced the new seats in A320/321 and those weren't too bad at all. And the service is quite okay and the meals are better than nothing.

So, I wouldn't say that there is a reason to avoid Finnair. There are many better airlines but Finnair isn't that bad.

Longhaul in Biz: No particular complaints. Good product and pricing.

Longhaul in Eco: The new seats in the AB 340. :mad: Even with the added IFE, the pitch is horrible even in bulkhead row. The MD 11's are better in this aspect especially in bulkhead. Food is getting worse and portions are small.

Shorthaul in Biz: Service is great and getting better IMHO, but apart from the first row in the Embraers and the AB 319 the new seats are poor.

Shorthaul in Eco: Good product for the price, again with the exception of the new seats.

Transit at HEL: Beware of tight connections when arriving on longhauls. The security and passport queues can take up to an hour or even more. The small terminal is getting overcrowded and this will worsen until the expansion is finished sometime in 2009.

Finnair Plus:
- the fiasco with the Finnair plus web site
- points not posting
- mostly only 50% points (on Finnish domestic flights on all other booking classes than Y!) Too strenuous status tresholds!

European flights:
- the Embraer experience: no warm food in Y, no business class seating
- the new plastic LCC style slimline seats on A320, A321 Embraers are not the most punctual aircraft... hopefully the performance gets better after modifications of the fleet. About the "biz"-seats just the same opinion. Very good route network to and from HEL (and even extending).

Long-haul:
- the poor reliability of the MD11 operations
- cramped economy seating on the MD11's
- poor food offerings Fleet renewal is underway... lets hope for the best.

Domestic Finnish operations:
- less and less routes and flights operated
- uncertainty of Finncomm operations (problems with pilots, flight cancellations etc.) Embraer are even worse than FC-flights. I would not complain about the density of the network, except for the summer season and holidays. Would not mind if the compulsory coffee/snack service (and enormous piles of waste produced by that) were discarded .

So I get the feeling that Finnair has turned much worse than what it was within a year or so. Or we are slowly progressing to the North-American scheme of air traffic. Glamour is fading and the operating costs are being cut to the minimum. Availability, punctuality, and safety should remain the main goals.

Finnair Plus:
- the fiasco with the Finnair plus web site


a reason enough to avoid an airline? ... get real...

a reason enough to avoid an airline? ... get real...

Maybe not reason enough, but certainly something that counts. At least for an FT'er.

Maybe not reason enough, but certainly something that counts. At least for an FT'er.

Hehe, well, that's bad what happened but it could have happened to any other airline. And what is the option - to change the FF program? But it doesn't mean that you have to avoid Finnair, you would just avoid Finnair Plus.

And just out of the curiousity: if we forget the SK, which you already mentioned - what would be a good option? BA, LH, AF/KL? Is the grass really much greener there?

These are quite bad ... but with food. Who is giving any decent food anyway these days?On long haul Y there is TG still usually free food.
Yeah, they are good unless you fly in P-class. In that class you will pay the same as with Finnair but you will not get as much points and you will have the nice option of paying for your meal.Yeah, P-class is terrible, although I think both you and me got some food vouchers from SK to smoothen things up a bit. And I do think Finnair is more expensive, often very much more.

Hehe, well, that's bad what happened but it could have happened to any other airline. And what is the option - to change the FF program? But it doesn't mean that you have to avoid Finnair, you would just avoid Finnair Plus.

And just out of the curiousity: if we forget the SK, which you already mentioned - what would be a good option? BA, LH, AF/KL? Is the grass really much greener there?I really think AY has screwed up the Finnair Plus website big time. Never seen that long of a breakdown on any other program.

Yeah, here are my current favorites in Y. Europe: Air Berlin; the price/quality ratio+FFP is just overwhelming. Last year it was still Finnair. Long haul: BA.

Embraer are even worse than FC-flights. I would not complain about the density of the network, except for the summer season and holidays. Would not mind if the compulsory coffee/snack service (and enormous piles of waste produced by that) were discarded .Hmm... why do you say that. I think the seat pitch on the ATR's is hardly better than on the EMB's and a jet is always a jet. I actually like the coffee/snack service especially early mornings when the first chance to get a coffee is on the plane.Or we are slowly progressing to the North-American scheme of air traffic. Glamour is fading and the operating costs are being cut to the minimum. Availability, punctuality, and safety should remain the main goals.Some airlines seem to be going in that direction. But the big operators (LH, BA etc.) and some newcomers like AB are still keeping some standards above the North American ones. I wish AY would keep to this too. And they still are, if you are lucky and get the A319: then you still get free warm food and decent seats both in C and Y.

I wasn't affected by that because I post to BAEC. So I can still fly with Finnair?

Well, it seems that posting to at least AA doesn't work very well at the moment. Usually the points showed up on the account just a few days after flying now I have been waiting a week.

Longhaul in Biz: No particular complaints. Good product and pricing.

Longhaul in Eco: The new seats in the AB 340. :mad: Even with the added IFE, the pitch is horrible even in bulkhead row. The MD 11's are better in this aspect especially in bulkhead. Food is getting worse and portions are small.

Shorthaul in Biz: Service is great and getting better IMHO, but apart from the first row in the Embraers and the AB 319 the new seats are poor.

Shorthaul in Eco: Good product for the price, again with the exception of the new seats.

Transit at HEL: Beware of tight connections when arriving on longhauls. The security and passport queues can take up to an hour or even more. The small terminal is getting overcrowded and this will worsen until the expansion is finished sometime in 2009.


Haven't tried the A340s ao I don't know about them. I have never had any problems with the MD11 but I do agree food portions are getting smaller and smaller.

Regarding shorthaul in Eco. The horrendous fuel surcharge (€29 per leg) makes AY an expensive alternative to Europe from Stockholm. It used to be great value for money - now it isn't. €116 for fuel surcharges for a roundtrip via HEL s***s.

HEL is getting worse every time I visit. From being an airport I really liked I am now not so fond of it - especially since quality of service in the lounges has degraded as well.

Well, it seems that posting to at least AA doesn't work very well at the moment. Usually the points showed up on the account just a few days after flying now I have been waiting a week.

Yes, the same problem of course is there with BAEC too but the point was that otherwise the program is working and after you register the flights manually then they will post unlike with Finnair. So the BAEC/AA websites work and the programs are operational, the AY flights just do not post automatically because of AY.

Hmm... why do you say that. I think the seat pitch on the ATR's is hardly better than on the EMB's and a jet is always a jet. A jet grounded due to technical problems does not beat a reliable turboprop up in the air... Cancelled flights and delays - especially during winter - was the thing I was referring to.

Is it just me or are there more reasons to avoid
Long-haul:
- cramped economy seating on the MD11's



How come? Seats on rows 21-28 are OK and pitch is also 32". So whats wrong with that?
That "leisure division" on rows 41-61 is a terrible but that is not AY's elite members headache anyway. ;)

Enjoy MD-11 for two more years, after that its only slow and boring buses.

How come? Seats on rows 21-28 are OK and pitch is also 32". So whats wrong with that?
That "leisure division" on rows 41-61 is a terrible but that is not AY's elite members headache anyway. ;)

Enjoy MD-11 for two more years, after that its only slow and boring buses.

Even though long haul economy is not my thing at all, I must second to that, M11 front Y cabin is pretty good, if they haven't modified it during last couple of years. The back is totally charter-like. Thankfully it's been years since I've been forced to sit behind row 6 (or previously 7) on AY M11, excluding winter time domestic flights to Lapland.

I'm still quite happy with AY:

- Food: In biz (both europe and long-haul) some of the best in industry; in eco average, but not worse than this.

- Seating: Long-haul biz excellent, short haul biz european one world standard (i.e. 5 per row, pitch only marginally better than eco), eco as bad as any other a/l.

- HEL-Airport: Though it has attracted awards in earlier years, I don't like it at all: a lot of bus gates (even if a/c is standing near a jetbridge, but usually in the wrong sector, i.e. schengen or domestic for non-schengen flights and v.v.), lounges rather sub standard (even the emerald section), inefficient security control ...

Thus AY is not my all time favourite, but certainly on the first half of the list :-)

I'm still quite happy with AY:

- Food: In biz (both europe and long-haul) some of the best in industry; in eco average, but not worse than this.

- Seating: Long-haul biz excellent, short haul biz european one world standard (i.e. 5 per row, pitch only marginally better than eco), eco as bad as any other a/l.


Seems your experiences are a bit dated..the short haul J seating has gone to crap during the last year (A319 still ok).

Food quality is always subjective issue but seems you haven't flown a lot with the Asian (or South American, for that matter) carriers if you think AY has some of the best food of the industry in long haul J...but as I said, this area is very subjective, the short haul J seating is not :)

And just out of the curiousity: if we forget the SK, which you already mentioned - what would be a good option? BA, LH, AF/KL? Is the grass really much greener there?

My most typical routes are DUS/FRA/LHR - ICN/KIX/PVG so the options are more a bit more varied...;)

How come? Seats on rows 21-28 are OK and pitch is also 32". So whats wrong with that?
That "leisure division" on rows 41-61 is a terrible but that is not AY's elite members headache anyway. ;)

Enjoy MD-11 for two more years, after that its only slow and boring buses.

I was quite surprised to see that the new AB 340 actually represented a "downgrade" for Y pax. Sure you have the IFE package but the seats are really cramped and narrow.

Also heard AY has had internal talks about introducing a WT+/Economy Extra type class but so far decided against it. On the PVG/NGO/NRT routes they could probably replace Eco with that completely...

I truly hope that someone @AY will be reading this topic! Many of the issues brought up here are the same ones I have been paying attention to.

My opinions:

European Y: food OK, seat OK, service OK+. Nothing to complain about when comparing to SK, IB, BA etc. The only downside is the Embraer fleet, which really shouldn't be used for any flight that lasts more than 90 mins. So far, my only Embraer flights have been to ARN and GOT (bearable), but I'm really not looking forward to an upcoming trip to NUE :(

European J: food OK+, seat OK-, service OK+. Nothing to write home about but quite a nice product considering what the rivals are offering.

Longhaul: the frequent delays and cancellations of the MD11 flights are severly affecting the reliability of AY longhauls. AY should definitely consider carrying a mechanic and maybe even some of the more often used spare parts with them if finding anything at outstations is a problem.

Longhaul Y: the same food that is OK on a 2.5 hour European flight is definitely not OK for longhaul. The portions are too small (if you spend 10 hours on the plane, it is a reasonable request to be able to rely on the airline to serve you enough food) and I would appreciate to be able to choose a main course from at least two options. Seat OK, service OK+.

Longhaul J: food OK+, seat OK-, service OK+. The AY J seats are definitely an upgrade from what they used to be but after trying BA Club World I really don't appreciate the AY seat very much. In the BA seat you can really lie flat - it's a bed, not a seat! - and choose the position in which you wish to sleep, and you don't keep sliding down to the floor all the time. The added privacy of the BA Club seat is also a huge plus.

On a side note, if AY were to acquire similar seats to the BA ones, how many would they be able to install in the MD11 or A340 J cabin(s)?

How come? Seats on rows 21-28 are OK and pitch is also 32". So whats wrong with that?
That "leisure division" on rows 41-61 is a terrible but that is not AY's elite members headache anyway. ;)

So, non-elites should actually avoid flying with Finnair as they will be seated to rows 41-61? Finnair is good only to their own elites?

sorry for what must seem like a dumb question, but how do you post your AY points to BA or AA?

but how do you post your AY points to BA or AA?

Various ways:

1) Include your AA or BA card number in your reservation.
2) Show your AA or BA card when checking in (if your card number is not included in the reservation).
3) Show no card when checking in and claim the points retroactively from the BA pages (you need flight numbers, dates, pax information, and possibly also the ticket number) - I do not know if AA has similar service.

If the kilometers have already been issued to your AY Plus account, you can not convert them to AA or BA miles or points any longer.

I was quite surprised to see that the new AB 340 actually represented a "downgrade" for Y pax. Sure you have the IFE package but the seats are really cramped and narrow.

You mean it's worse than than the back of the MD-11? I am yet to fly the 343, but will be doing that soon (in economy). The middle section of MD-11 has been ok, business good (but terribly noisy!) and the back just horrible (noisy and cramped!) - I find it hard to believe that 343s could be worse than the back section of the MD-11, where most of the Y passengers fly anyway.


If I remember correctly, there was just a thread in SK forum that SK has installed similar seats into their A321s. I don't know if they are exactly like Finnair's but how many different seats can you get into the Airbus?


SK are installing 198 seats in their 321s, which is 2 more than in AYs 321, so I guess the seats are the same? Pitch at least has to be about the same.

But for me, there are basically 4 options (I fly mostly intra-European and few times a year long-haul):
- AY (often direct flights, at least some food, ok service)
- SK/KF (connecting via CPH or ARN (both ok), no food, outdated planes)
- LH (connecting via FRA (bad!) or MUC (ok), at least some food, ok service)
- BA (connecting via LHR (horrible!), at least some food (sometimes only a sandwich), ok service)

Basically I fly AY and LH. Note that I am flying in economy almost 100%.

I've had 3 Embraer flights so far (all to CPH or back) and they've been ok. The seat pitch is surprisingly good in Y and although the meal is a sandwich only, that's fine - at least it's hard to make a really bad sandwich. And besides, you often get a sandwich on SK premium economy when flying to CPH or BA economy also when flying to LHR.

Economy longhaul on AY is nothing to write home about when flying the MD11s, but I don't know about the 340s - at least they got some IFE. Someone mentioned BA longhaul to be good, but I presume that means business or first. At least when I flew their 744s the experience was less than stellar: the planes were old and worn, we were delayed because they couldn't close one overhead locker and a tech person had to fix the lock, the IFE wasn't working on the outbound flight, the ran out of normal meals so I got a non-lactose low-fat tasteless meal.

My best long haul experiences (in Y) have been on QF: good service (the FAs really seemed to enjoy their job), good IFE, meal options also in Y.

I agree with you, that the AY Plus fiasco has been a bad one and find it a bit irritating that you have to call them for every flight or wait several weeks.

I truly hope that someone @AY will be reading this topic! Many of the issues brought up here are the same ones I have been paying attention to.

Longhaul J: food OK+, seat OK-, service OK+. The AY J seats are definitely an upgrade from what they used to be but after trying BA Club World I really don't appreciate the AY seat very much. In the BA seat you can really lie flat - it's a bed, not a seat! - and choose the position in which you wish to sleep, and you don't keep sliding down to the floor all the time. The added privacy of the BA Club seat is also a huge plus.

On a side note, if AY were to acquire similar seats to the BA ones, how many would they be able to install in the MD11 or A340 J cabin(s)?

I fully agree with you in this. AY made a big hassle in 2005 when they introduced the so called "new" J seats on M11s, which are actually late 90's stuff. The competition is now going for fully flat seats and AY's seat is way behind its most OW partners. The BA J seat (NNCW) is very good both for sleeping & privacy, it feels like cheap F compared to AY J, IMHO :)

I also feel very bad for Asian people who by a J ticket ex-Asia via HEL and they end up taking 2-3 hour E170 flight as their European J connection...just crap...

AA's new J seat is better than AY's, even though AA seat is still at angle but it's more spacious than AY, at least for tall people.

CX is starting to upgrade their old J seat as well (same generation as AY introduced as new...)

LA has a very good premium class rolling out to their 767 fleet, also beating AY regarding the seat itself, even though the LA seat is pretty narrow. Also it seems to take quite a while to update the entire 767 fleet as the process has been going on for some time already..

AA's new J seat is better than AY's, even though AA seat is still at angle but it's more spacious than AY, at least for tall people.


Isn't American using the Recaro CL 6510, which is the same seat AY is installing in the new AB planes?

Isn't American using the Recaro CL 6510, which is the same seat AY is installing in the new AB planes?

Sorry, I have no idea about the type, all I know is that with AA I can sleep there fully stretched out on any row/seat and that's all that matters to me...something I cannot do on AY (only on 1st row on some seats depending on the a/c so it's impossible to know before the flight which really annoys me..)

Isn't American using the Recaro CL 6510, which is the same seat AY is installing in the new AB planes?

Maybe AA opted for the convertible version while AY chose the LCC one.

Maybe AA opted for the convertible version while AY chose the LCC one.

Umm? CL 6510 is a lie-flat business class seat and there's no "convertible" or "LCC" versions of that, as far as I know.

http://www.recaro-as.com/ras/product-range/full-flat/cl-6510/index.html

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I thought you were referring to the shorthaul seats. AY longhaul J seats are reasonably comfy.

So the BAEC/AA websites work and the programs are operational, the AY flights just do not post automatically because of AY.

But it is still a major hassle that you need to send in things manually for retro-registration.

So, non-elites should actually avoid flying with Finnair as they will be seated to rows 41-61? Finnair is good only to their own elites?

Usually, as a oneworld elite, I have no problem getting seated in the forward Y cabin. Even with seat blocking next to me if possible due to loads.

Various ways:

1) Include your AA or BA card number in your reservation.
2) Show your AA or BA card when checking in (if your card number is not included in the reservation).
3) Show no card when checking in and claim the points retroactively from the BA pages (you need flight numbers, dates, pax information, and possibly also the ticket number) - I do not know if AA has similar service.

If the kilometers have already been issued to your AY Plus account, you can not convert them to AA or BA miles or points any longer.

Thank you^

Usually, as a oneworld elite, I have no problem getting seated in the forward Y cabin. Even with seat blocking next to me if possible due to loads.

Do you manage to prebook a good seat or will you get it at check-in?

Do you manage to prebook a good seat or will you get it at check-in?

Nowadays AY's elites can choose a seat from row 22-29 on longhauls with all booking class during the booking. Before choice of available seats was depending the class of ticket even with the elite status.

Nowadays AY's elites can choose a seat from row 22-29 on longhauls with all booking class during the booking. Before choice of available seats was depending the class of ticket even with the elite status.

Well, that's definitely an improvement!

There is one BIG BIG downside that I forgot to mention on my first post to this topic. The use of charter-configured 757's on scheduled flights. At least BCN and FCO are affected by this, and I remember that there are some other destinations as well.

Well, that's definitely an improvement!
The use of charter-configured 757's on scheduled flights. At least BCN and FCO are affected by this, and I remember that there are some other destinations as well.

Yeah, 75Ws (752 with winglets) fly to CPH, BUD and ARN until November.
But AY's elites can choose during the booking almost every seat they want (if seat is free).

My favorite is 12A or 12F, there is no seat in the front and unlimited legspace. When you have seat like this in 75W you can enjoy your trip.

Yeah, 75Ws (752 with winglets) fly to CPH, BUD and ARN until November.
But AY's elites can choose during the booking almost every seat they want (if seat is free).

My favorite is 12A or 12F, there is no seat in the front and unlimited legspace. When you have seat like this in 75W you can enjoy your trip.

It's of course really nice there are few good seats (=good legroom) but this doesn't change the fact that AY 752 usage on scheduled flights is totally unexceptable. Oneclass concept is worse enough and this charter plane usage on scheduled routes is more than I can accept from any non-LCC traditional carrier. Period.

I would support most of the issues already raised in this thread, Finnair has been slipping very fast in the last year. My main issues with Finnair are:

1) New seats - simply awful (as I've mentioned in other threads it is now just so uncomfortable to attempt to use a laptop on board)

2) Helsinki Airport Chaos - With the ongoing redevelopment work and following Finnair's timetable changes for long-haul flights (they seem much less spread out compared to before) the non-Schengen area just can't cope. Most of my European flights now require bus transfer and there never seem to be enough buses around. Is Helsinki airport trying to model itself on Heathrow? ;)

3) Finnair Lounges - Hardly worth bothering about these days, even their 'premium' Emerald long-haul lounge has a fairly poor food and drink offering.

4) Economy Food - It takes starvation to make me eat Finnair's on-board food offering. I know some people rave about it because it is still a hot meal on many flights. To me it looks, smell, and tastes like warmed up dog food (at least what I would imagine dog food to taste like!) - and that's if you get a dish with any taste whatsoever, some dishes are so bland it's unbelieveable!

5) Charging for Spirits in Economy - This just seems mean. I can understand why they may not want to give too much free boose to people (especially Finns ;)) on deeply discounted tickets, but I usually travel on full-fare economy (due to company travel policy :() and it just seems mean to charge someone a few € when they have spent €700 on a ticket!

Having had a good old moan, Finnair does still have some good points:

- Ground staff/ticket desk staff who will usually do good job for you
- Friendly cabin crew
- Live video feed of take-off/landing

I would support most of the issues already raised in this thread, Finnair has been slipping very fast in the last year. My main issues with Finnair are:

1) New seats - simply awful (as I've mentioned in other threads it is now just so uncomfortable to attempt to use a laptop on board)

2) Helsinki Airport Chaos - With the ongoing redevelopment work and following Finnair's timetable changes for long-haul flights (they seem much less spread out compared to before) the non-Schengen area just can't cope. Most of my European flights now require bus transfer and there never seem to be enough buses around. Is Helsinki airport trying to model itself on Heathrow? ;)

3) Finnair Lounges - Hardly worth bothering about these days, even their 'premium' Emerald long-haul lounge has a fairly poor food and drink offering.

4) Economy Food - It takes starvation to make me eat Finnair's on-board food offering. I know some people rave about it because it is still a hot meal on many flights. To me it looks, smell, and tastes like warmed up dog food (at least what I would imagine dog food to taste like!) - and that's if you get a dish with any taste whatsoever, some dishes are so bland it's unbelieveable!

5) Charging for Spirits in Economy - This just seems mean. I can understand why they may not want to give too much free boose to people (especially Finns ;)) on deeply discounted tickets, but I usually travel on full-fare economy (due to company travel policy :() and it just seems mean to charge someone a few € when they have spent €700 on a ticket!

Having had a good old moan, Finnair does still have some good points:

- Ground staff/ticket desk staff who will usually do good job for you
- Friendly cabin crew
- Live video feed of take-off/landing

Another very good post in this thread!

Hopefully most of the people are active enough to give the same feedback directly to AY as well. I know for certain that after many, many compaints AY decided to change the seating policy in J in A320/321s which are equipped with new seats to 2+2 (=empty middle). It's still very bad for J class but atleast a bit more bearable.

Let's keep up the active work towards AY and hope they will listen to their customers.

Do you manage to prebook a good seat or will you get it at check-in?

Sometimes at check-in, but also by calling Finnair reservations. They need to be able to confirm that the card you are holding is a valid card with status which may be a problem sometimes. I don't know if this perk was given to me as an Emerald or if the person I spoke to where capable of bending the rules. But I got preseated in row 22.

One of the ways (HEL-JFK I think) I asked if the seat next to me was empty and the friendly gate agent said no, but "I'll put you on row 24 where you can get 2 seats next to you blocked".

That's service!

What do you think will happen next spring when new countries will join the Schengen treaty? This will affect some 30 flights a day at HEL. Will this have an effect on the congestion?

What do you think will happen next spring when new countries will join the Schengen treaty? This will affect some 30 flights a day at HEL. Will this have an effect on the congestion? Certainly. For reference, could you please list the countries joining. Most likely the UK will not be included... Waiting eagerly for HU.

Yes Hungary is going to join along with Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech republic, Slovakia, Slovenia and Malta. It's possible that Switzerland will join later in 2008. I was not presice. These countries have joined the treaty earlier. Next spring they will apply the agreement in air traffic. A couple of months earlier they will skip the formalities in road and ship traffic. Quite a congestion in the Schengen arrival hall but shorter queus in the passport inspections.

A lot has been said about the E170/190 planes and AY's worsening Y product, especially in terms of seating. Yesterday I took AY's quite new late night service to AMS and I must say that the Y service was again pretty good, the flight attendants were extremely friendly and polite, the chicken salad offered was edible, actually quite OK but the seat is simply not up to par, there's absolutely no way of using laptop onboard on any other row than the first...paying over 1000 eur for a ticket and you cannot even use your laptop, that's really crap... again, the crew did a fantastic job and there's nothing they can do about it. With the same price, or less, I can fly to many destinations with BA and even if in Y, I can pre select exit rows/bulkheads so AY clearly has a lot to learn here...Business Class in E170 is a total joke but I guess the extra 200-300 eur for being able to use your laptop (4 pax in row 1) is what AY wants ;)

there's absolutely no way of using laptop onboard

I would personally consider this to be a benefit. Good excuse to not work during the flights... :D

Yes Hungary is going to join along with Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech republic, Slovakia, Slovenia and Malta. It's possible that Switzerland will join later in 2008. I was not presice. These countries have joined the treaty earlier. Next spring they will apply the agreement in air traffic. A couple of months earlier they will skip the formalities in road and ship traffic. Quite a congestion in the Schengen arrival hall but shorter queus in the passport inspections.

The main bottleneck is when arriving from Asia/JFK and transiting to a Schengen flight through security. Add the rather slow Finnish border guards checking passports and the queues can get quite frustrating.

Thats why you should get an EU passport! It makes the transit so easy :D

Thats why you should get an EU passport! It makes the transit so easy :D Obtaining an EU passport in some Schengen country may just not happen just by snapping the fingers. But for contrast: formalities at HEL may not be much worse than formalities, say e.g. at LHR, CDG (for those holding non-EU passports), or in particular at JFK, SVO or other similar places for almost everyone.

I do not, however, thank the Finnish border quards (or the airport security staff either) at HEL airport. They seem to know their value and know little about customer service. Sometimes professional behaviour is replaced by sheer bossiness (or even childishness) - also when dealing with their very dearest countrymen.

Someone compared Finnair food as dog food. I disagree altough I have never tasted it. Still I think that it was not a good idea by a Finnair chef to assume that every one would love the somewhat dull Finnish home-cooking. Maybe we all should preorder AVML in Y. Has anyone else noticed that the second drink round has become rare after the reintroduction of sales. Ofcourse you can order more or fetch from the back galley. I have never noticed that any passanger would have bought spirits on a shorthaul flight but I would appreciate a free G&T on a longhaul flight.

I have never noticed that any passanger would have bought spirits on a shorthaul flight but I would appreciate a free G&T on a longhaul flight.A guy in front of me ordered a cognac this week. Seemed to be a mini bottle of Renault Carte Noir.

I would appreciate a free GT even on a shorthaul!

Someone compared Finnair food as dog food. I disagree altough I have never tasted it. Still I think that it was not a good idea by a Finnair chef to assume that every one would love the somewhat dull Finnish home-cooking. Maybe we all should preorder AVML in Y. Has anyone else noticed that the second drink round has become rare after the reintroduction of sales. Ofcourse you can order more or fetch from the back galley. I have never noticed that any passanger would have bought spirits on a shorthaul flight but I would appreciate a free G&T on a longhaul flight.

My previous rather harsh comment on the Finnair Y catering is simply my view. However, I know from many colleagues who also use Finnair on a regular basis that I am not alone here. Most of the time the food is simply awful. I don't have anything against Finnish home-style cooking, that would be a great improvement! I would much rather have a BA Y sandwich than a Finnair Y hot meal.

I too have noticed the lack of any second bar service, although still happy to bring additional drinks if you ask or go back to get them.

I know plently of people who would choose a G&T, whisky or rum ahead of a bottle of the Finnair plonk!

My previous rather harsh comment on the Finnair Y catering is simply my view. However, I know from many colleagues who also use Finnair on a regular basis that I am not alone here. Most of the time the food is simply awful. I don't have anything against Finnish home-style cooking, that would be a great improvement! I would much rather have a BA Y sandwich than a Finnair Y hot meal.


AY staff normally recommend booking the Asian Veggie meal for Y flights. Or just upgrade with points, it's simple and painless.

It is a matter of tastes. Even the meatballs are quite bad. There is one decent dish made of whole meat with thyme or rosemary. The breakfasts with different omelettes work for me. Why not offer pasta or wok? My reference is the awful cold pasta salads offered by KLM. I am afraid that the sandwiches offered by AY on the Nordic routes is nothing to write to write home about. I have read that they have two options on the Indian routes. I would welcome this standard Y feature on other longhaul flights as well. The C class menus usually work for me.

I too have noticed the lack of any second bar service, although still happy to bring additional drinks if you ask or go back to get them.

I know plently of people who would choose a G&T, whisky or rum ahead of a bottle of the Finnair plonk!Ok, so the loss of the second bar service in Y was not my imagination (or being asleep :) ). Agreed that they are happy to get you a drink.

A G&T is indeed very welcome compared to either the beer or wine choice. I (very) occasionally get one, that is if I have some euros readily available. Fortunately flying C back to LHR next Friday.

BTW: one other reason to avoid flying Finnair that they keep messing around with my seat allocation when flying in Y. Not a problem ex-HEL as you can do OLCI (and the reserved seat always shows up), but ex-LHR on numerous occasions the reserved seat (window, close to the curtain) magically disappears :td: And when you ask the check-in staff they say they can't even see that it was ever there. Complaining to AY (both via my TA and directly) didn't get any useful response (the usual about seat reservations not guaranteed, airplane change, and other nonsense).

I am afraid that the sandwiches offered by AY on the Nordic routes is nothing to write to write home about.They certainly aren't. As I've said you get better ones in the Finnair domestic lounge. But they are still better than the awful LH ravioli served on some of their longer routes like to HEL (but then I've always liked meatballs more than ravioli :D).

In April I flew LH eight times in one week and got a vegetarian meal on 7 of them. It was probably some kind of a theme week or something, as I saw everyone else getting the same too. Those were actually rather nice! One of the flights was early in the morning, so they served breakfast on that.

In AY Y, I think the best meal I've had was some kind of a salmon pasta when flying to NGO.

Now I agree that the meals in Y are nothing to write home about, but that is not a reason to avoid Finnair, IMHO. I mean, my experience is that other airlines aren't serving anything better in Y either. Or is there some carrier flying out of Finland serving gourmet in Y also? :cool: The most hilarious was Icelandair's small plastic cup of herring, which came in a huge box almost full of nothing.

I would much rather have a BA Y sandwich than a Finnair Y hot meal.

I have to disagree here. To me getting only a cold sandwich instead of a hot meal on BA was a huge disappointment.

While the airline meals are never anything to write home about, I still prefer to get a proper warm meal instead of a sandwich.

A G&T is indeed very welcome compared to either the beer or wine choice. I (very) occasionally get one, that is if I have some euros readily available. Fortunately flying C back to LHR next Friday.
I know plently of people who would choose a G&T, whisky or rum ahead of a bottle of the Finnair plonk!
I would appreciate a free GT even on a shorthaul!
I have never noticed that any passanger would have bought spirits on a shorthaul flight but I would appreciate a free G&T on a longhaul flight.
Maybe AY could have free Lonkero along with beer and wine :D

In April I flew LH eight times in one week and got a vegetarian meal on 7 of them. It was probably some kind of a theme week or something, as I saw everyone else getting the same too. Those were actually rather nice! One of the flights was early in the morning, so they served breakfast on that.

In AY Y, I think the best meal I've had was some kind of a salmon pasta when flying to NGO.

Now I agree that the meals in Y are nothing to write home about, but that is not a reason to avoid Finnair, IMHO. I mean, my experience is that other airlines aren't serving anything better in Y either. Or is there some carrier flying out of Finland serving gourmet in Y also? :cool: The most hilarious was Icelandair's small plastic cup of herring, which came in a huge box almost full of nothing.
The Finnair warm meals in Y within Europe are nothing too bad to complain about IMO (whenever you get them, that is). But I think you should expect more of long-haul meals.

On LH within Europe, whenever they have served a meal (usually it is a sandwich and a chocolate bar), it has been some kind of pasta without meat. I have thought it is because they try to find a 'one-sort-fits-all-diets' meal so they don't have to carry any special meals. On LH longhaul there has been some meat served in Y, but even then e.g. the sausages are made of chicken, again to avoid problems with e.g. religious diets.

I would much rather have a BA Y sandwich than a Finnair Y hot meal.I too have to disagree on this one, and the egg and mayo sandwich is simply unedible. Nowadays I hand it back immediately.

Seems your experiences are a bit dated..the short haul J seating has gone to crap during the last year (A319 still ok).

Food quality is always subjective issue but seems you haven't flown a lot with the Asian (or South American, for that matter) carriers if you think AY has some of the best food of the industry in long haul J...but as I said, this area is very subjective, the short haul J seating is not :)

No, my last flights both short and long haul were in March 07 and I do fly a lot on SQ and CX ... I agree that the European short haul J seating concept is a scam in general. What really sucks on AY are the Embraer planes with two in a row and thus no middle seat to be left empty.

Lonkero would be a good idea but then again people would complain about not serving cider. I think that many foreigners find it strange that meat is covered with gravy. It seems that no airline serves very good meal. Look at the whining about All day deli bags on the BA forum. Finnair severs meals of reasonable quality and it is always possible to preorder special meals unlike on KLM. Maybe they could presell business class meals in Y like they have started to do on charter flights.

Maybe they could presell business class meals in Y like they have started to do on charter flights.Ok, so what is the point with Finnair C within Europe? You get the same crappy seat (on A320/1 and EMB), same legroom and adjacent passengers (EMB), same 3rd party lounge you can access with PP or DC and then you could buy the C meal for what it is really worth?

Ok, so what is the point with Finnair C within Europe? You get the same crappy seat (on A320/1 and EMB), same legroom and adjacent passengers (EMB), same 3rd party lounge you can access with PP or DC and then you could buy the C meal for what it is really worth?

Well, lounge access is the same problem for all the carriers. There are always people travelling with PP and they can get access to same or similar lounges. But not all people have PP (or DC).

Different seats - does all the other airlines have different seats for C class within Europe or are all in the same mode that they have the same seats for all classes? How about legroom? I haven't studied this for a long time so that's why I ask.

Meal - that is still a difference between Economy class and Business class. SAS for example doesn't give any free meal in Economy class while giving it in Economy Extra and Business class.

But is any C class product within Europe really worth the money?

The business class meal on charter flights cost 22?/leg. It's really pathetic if that is the only benefit of a C class ticket. Maybe some more miles. The shorter check-in queues are not a great benefit in the age of SMS and OLCI. The leg room is worse than before in C. Not sure if it is still better than in the back. C class gives usually some more flexibility. Still I don't understand the benefits of omission of C class a la b.flex by SN and economy extra by SK and KF. They could still afford for some of the classic extras in C (better food etc). The ticket prices of flexible tickets haven't gone that cheap. I think it is marketing hype from Blue1 to say it is old-fashioned to serve traditional meals. Come on. 22 ?.

But is any C class product within Europe really worth the money? Probably only for those, who are poor planners and who therefore need flexible tickets. For most of us I class product (like of BA) would be the best buy: all the luxurious life benefits for only a fraction of the cost - yet double of points and miles granted. It is a pity that AY does not have such tickets available (or at least I haven read about inflexible business fares). C-experience can also be quite variable. Try e.g., Alitalia and Malev, and be convinced.

Lonkero would be a good idea but then again people would complain about not serving cider. I think that many foreigners find it strange that meat is covered with gravy. It seems that no airline serves very good meal. Look at the whining about All day deli bags on the BA forum. Finnair severs meals of reasonable quality and it is always possible to preorder special meals unlike on KLM. Maybe they could presell business class meals in Y like they have started to do on charter flights.

Best domestic/shorthaul meals in my experience are featured on Asian airlines. Even Garuda does a pretty tasty rice dumpling wrapped in banana leaves on their Jakarta - Surabaya hops.

As AY is getting more and more Asian pax, they could start to offer two options in European J, one Finnish/Nordic style and another Asian type meal. I'm sure JAL could be help out in the planning, Cathay and Finnair don't seem to get along that well. Anyway, I'll be ordering the great SFML's again and again...AY probably has the best fish dishes in the skies of Europe.

TTL is quite right. I have wondered the reasoning of SN. B.flex for those who want service and flexibility and b.light for those who don't want service and don't need flexibility. Nothing for those who want flexibility but don't need service or vice versa. I think even SAS plans inflexible economy extra tickets. Even KLM sells affordable World business class holiday fares. I could think of buy these tickets on some short hauls.

Probably only for those, who are poor planners and who therefore need flexible tickets.How about those of us who plan very well, but simply have a job to do that depends on what the client wants (and wants to pay for)? I'd rather go home early if the job is done, or stay a few more days if needed. Of course when I'm flying for leisure I would never buy a flexible C class ticket but would go for BA I class.

Best domestic/shorthaul meals in my experience are featured on Asian airlines. Even Garuda does a pretty tasty rice dumpling wrapped in banana leaves on their Jakarta - Surabaya hops.Absolutely, e.g. can't compare SQ C/F, which I did BKK-SIN-BKK a shorter flight than LHR-HEL, with AY/BA/... C :)

How about those of us who plan very well, but simply have a job to do that depends on what the client wants (and wants to pay for)? I'd rather go home early if the job is done, or stay a few more days if needed. Little off topic, but wouldn´t optimal planning provide the best results. The job gets done when it is to be done and the precious extra days could be used for another job... Well, I was just trying to be a bit amusing. Some people definitely do need the flexibility. Objectively, when using AY short haul, Y/B/H would be the most rational choice even if the flights did have the two class configuration. So small are the AY short haul business class benefits nowadays.

So small are the AY short haul business class benefits nowadays.

Depends if one has AY/OW elite status or not, I'd say. But the new non-convertible seats were a major setback in differentiating the two products.

Best domestic/shorthaul meals in my experience are featured on Asian airlines. Even Garuda does a pretty tasty rice dumpling wrapped in banana leaves on their Jakarta - Surabaya hops.

Generally, I agree about the superior meals on Asian carriers, but Garuda!? Well, at least you can cover everything unrecognisable with the 'ketchup' (=chili sauce), which should make it palatable... And obviously beats Merpati's 'food' 6-0.

But about Finnair food, somebody mentioned gravy, and I think that really is something that makes the portions both aesthetically unpleasing and tasting mealy.

Generally, I agree about the superior meals on Asian carriers, but Garuda!? Well, at least you can cover everything unrecognisable with the 'ketchup' (=chili sauce), which should make it palatable... I agree with mosburger, Garuda has had a complete, nice and well presented meal when I have flown them. Too bad they are currently banned from Europe because of some technical problems.

Congestion at HEL seems to get worse. A friend who flew HKG - HEL yesterday told me they were deplaned from the MD11 on the tarmac in streaming rain with bus transfer. And a solution is only in sight in two years from now when the extension terminal is operational.

They should at least provide covered stairs in case a bus transfer is needed. No one can expect passengers to wear winter clothes just for the transit.

Getting out of the plane, descending the (in most cases covered) ramp stand and hopping on to a bus would take some 15-30 seconds. You do not have time enough to get wet or cold.

Jetways are quite scarce luxury in Finland. Only HEL and RVN have them. At the "countryside" we have to survive even in the middle of the winter, arriving directly from, say, LPA, with only thin shirts and shorts on - like someone do.

I would be more put off to have to sit onboard, getting to nowhere while waiting for the gate to clear, as it often happens in major European hubs, worst of them being LHR.

I am not saying, HEL shouldn´t do better in this respect, but actually it is the same with AY, HEL and Finavia, as it is in LHR: BA is not be blamed of but the BAA.

Not only HEL and MD11 does this. I have flown with VS with 747 from SFO to LHR and had to take a bus to the terminal, we were parked at remote park. And it was raining too at that time. :)

Jetways are quite scarce luxury in Finland. Only HEL and RVN have them. At the "countryside" we have to survive even in the middle of the winter, arriving directly from, say, LPA, with only thin shirts and shorts on - like someone do.

You are quite right. But still, these holiday makers know what to expect. The same applies if you end or start your trip in Finland. The situation is different if transit from Italy to Hong Kong. The chance of getting wet by snowstorm is not something you are prepared to. Smaller planes are different. You can choose to be the last person to embark/disembark the plane/bus which shortens the extreme experience. But like Miikka said, it can rain anywhere. I think it is not so terrible experience but some people may just like to avoid the odds and choose another transithub.

Slightly OT but still... Thinking of changing back to be an AY user on the HEL-LHR route after having a strange CE-experience this morning. The flight with a weary old 757 was due to leave 7.45. It left after 9. That would have been bearable since the delay at the other end was just 40 minutes and I did not have connection.

But: Four and half rows of CE were half occupied. There was just one FA for the CE and even that sole FA seemed to spend most of the time behind the place, where the curtain should have been. I.e., traffic from the ET was constant to use the front toilets. Another FA, obviously off duty, was having a long nap sitting on 2D.

Had to stuff my jacket to the overhead locker, since I was sitting at the bulkhead row with no coat hook. No one came to ask to place it to the closet in front of the plane. Before take off, one plastic cupful of orange juice was offered. After take off, the ET section became serviced first and only after that the CE. It was exactly two hours after 7.45 when I received my breakfast tray. First drinks were served shortly after that.

When I asked for morning papers, the FA told that they were outside, I should have gotten them by myself! Indeed, there was an empty rack for newspapers in the jetway when I boarded the plane among the last passengers (thanks again to AY for a delayed domestic connection!). By specifically asking the FA to fetch one paper for me from back of the plane I was then offered Iltalehti. Also there was some added flavour from two IT-geeks chatting leisurely and not so quietly between seats A and D. Lucky, they weren´t drinking (yet...).

The unattentiveness was striking. I hope that has been just the exception to the rule of usually good service in CE.

Slightly OT but still... Thinking of changing back to be an AY user on the HEL-LHR route after having a strange CE-experience this morning. The flight with a weary old 757 was due to leave 7.45. It left after 9. That would have been bearable since the delay at the other end was just 40 minutes and I did not have connection.

This was BA and BA's 757.

This was BA and BA's 757.I think TTL was arguing that the BA CE service was so bad that he was considering going back to AY. Though as BA is never mentioned (CE though implies BA for the experienced BA FTer) that main message is easily lost...

Flew HEL-LHR in AY C yesterday and couldn't complain about the service ^ As the only passenger in row 1 not much to complain about the seating either, except for the lack of legroom. It's either that, or having a tiny bit more legroom but the seats in front are almost in your face.

BTW: the flight boarded once again from a remote stand, and the stairs weren't covered. Good that it didn't snow at boarding time, but it was still rather cold.

I think TTL was arguing that the BA CE service was so bad that he was considering going back to AY. Though as BA is never mentioned (CE though implies BA for the experienced BA FTer) that main message is easily lost... Sorry for mentioning that. However returning on the BA 794 yesterday and the attentive service this time healed my soul, so I will not be switching back to AY. HEL seems to have some trouble with luggage handling. 55 minutes (+ a delay of 20 minutes of the departure) was not enough for a transfer to a domestic connection. Have others had similar experiences recently?

I would urge anyone considering booking a long-haul flight on Finnair's MD11 fleet to think twice. Especially if you really need to get to your destination anywhere near the scheduled time (or day!). Their technical problems are simply becoming too common.

So far this week I know that Tuesday's HEL-PEK flight was cancelled (as was it's return PEK-HEL operation on Wednesday). Wednesday's inbound flight from Osaka (at least I think that's where it was coming from) was diverted to Tampere for technical reasons (must have been pretty serious to go into TMP rather than HEL). As this aircraft was due to operate the Wednesday evening HEL-PEK the departure time has gradually slipped from 19.55, until Finnair announcing that they are now pretty confident it will go at 04.00 on Thursday! Of course with the departure time being pushed back steadily Finnair have managed to avoid paying out for hotels (it's always going in a couple of hours, so they say!).

I know that Finnair say they will have replaced the MD11s by 2010 or sometime around then, but I really don't see how they can continue to expand their long-haul network with this sort of reliability record. I would suggest they need to cut one daily long-haul route operation and this would let them have an aircraft available on standby at all times at HEL.

IWednesday's inbound flight from Osaka (at least I think that's where it was coming from) was diverted to Tampere for technical reasons (must have been pretty serious to go into TMP rather than HEL).

Small correction: the aircraft was diverted to TMP because HEL was experiencing heavy snowing and waiting time above the airport was getting long. They made a decision to land to TMP until the weather gets better. When they were getting ready to depart to HEL again from TMP they noticed the hydraulic problem in one of the engines and the repair crew needs to come from HEL as TMP doesn't have people for that.

Smells of our friendly bean counter Mr.Hienonen again. Have been more than happy to fly to China on CX instead of AY and will next think about Finnair longhaul only when the extensions at HEL are completed by the end of 2009.

Smells of our friendly bean counter Mr.Hienonen again. Have been more than happy to fly to China on CX instead of AY and will next think about Finnair longhaul only when the extensions at HEL are completed by the end of 2009.

Well, CX will be must better than AY even after the extension if we compare the service. AY has only advantage about the flight time and price but the service cannot reach the CX level. Too bad CX doesn't offer cheap flights from Finland (and their code sharing is quite limited from HEL).

Which hub in Europe you usually use, LHR, FRA or AMS (I think those are the CX hubs in here)?

Well, I normally transit at LHR as some family lives close by and if taking the late afternoon flight to HKG can enjoy lunch with them. FRA is not geared towards OW carriers and AMS I would have head to by train as no OW feeders from my origin.

But AY in biz class is not a bad choice either once the lounges are upgraded. The CX lounge at LHR is like a miniature version of the Pier/Wing and that is what AY should set as benchmark, at least.

Hi,

long time lurker in FT, first post.

I have been more and more avoiding AY for several reasons.

Price: on long haul (eg NRT), AY economy is more expensive (2300€) than SK eco extra (2000€). Quite a difference in seating/service/mileage accrual. I won't even start on why 2 return tickets within Europe are cheaper than one - this is not AY specific.

Delays/cancels: last week I hopped into DUS one morning - on the board, long list of AY flights "delayed, delayed". We were already on the bus going to the aircraft, when we were sent back to the terminal for another hour or so. My wife's trip to JYV was delayed 2 hrs, return trip was made in taxi (!) courtesy of Finnair, as the plane was too "problematic" to even leave HEL

Undelivered/late luggage: major pain in the neck. Going to sports World events in (to participate) - out of the last 4 events, on 3 they left someone's gear behind. Once they delivered it to the hotel in BUD AFTER the gals already returned to HEL. Talk about service! Well, it's a good way to renew your gear on Finnair's account (think of a 1000 € a pop) but I could do without it. Tonight we fly to GOT with a bunch, we'll take most everything on board, except the weapons. A small wager is already going on, how many competitors on the flight will arrive w/o their gear.

IT problems: "we are upgrading our IT system" - do I need to say more? Actually this was a main reason I switch to StarAlliance, reaching Silver in 3 months. In Feb-Mar/2008 alone AY (and by extension OW) just lost 3 intercontinental return flights from this FT'er.

First of all Welcome to the Finnair Plus forum!

You've really been unlucky with AY lately. I don't how much of the delays were weather related or the strike with the ATC.

The AY+ Internet problems seem to be partly solved at least (the points are showing). But yeah it's simply understandable how they have so totally screwed up with the systems change. :td:

Hi, long time lurker in FT, first post.

Hi,
Delays/cancels: last week I hopped into DUS one morning - on the board, long list of AY flights "delayed, delayed". We were already on the bus going to the aircraft, when we were sent back to the terminal for another hour or so. My wife's trip to JYV was delayed 2 hrs, return trip was made in taxi (!) courtesy of Finnair, as the plane was too "problematic" to even leave HEL


Bad luck, indeed, but I had been under the impression that the bad delays were mainly affecting the long-haul fleet (which has now became a daily news item in the Finnish press). Perhaps I've just been very lucky as I've never experiences very long delays with AY intra European flights, nor have I ever lost any luggage on those. (Instead, SK, KF, KL etc in similar routes have been frequently delayed).

Bad luck, indeed, but I had been under the impression that the bad delays were mainly affecting the long-haul fleet (which has now became a daily news item in the Finnish press). Perhaps I've just been very lucky as I've never experiences very long delays with AY intra European flights, nor have I ever lost any luggage on those. (Instead, SK, KF, KL etc in similar routes have been frequently delayed).

Luck is such a funny thing. Out of the last 5 long-haul AY flights only 1 wasn't delayed; not much each time but enough to notice. One of those delays wasn't AY fault but a late crew due to the accident in the highway but the rest of those were technical delays. Every time the flight departed any way and was able to catch-up a little bit the schedule.

Thanks for welcoming me! :-)

I've really noticed a decline in AY's general level of service in the last couple of years - before it was exemplary. Or maybe the world went ahead and AY treaded in place?

As for the luggage I've never experienced luggage related problems before, but last fall/winter was a a shocking experience. The first time this happened the hostie even came up to us asking "are you the Wilcos?" and after an affirmative answer he left. I thought "OMFG, you won't leave our stuff here, would you?" They did.

But on a nicer note - it really is feeling halfway home when you board a homebound AY and are met by the no-nonsense effectivity of the crew. A few more smiles would be welcome though.

Hi,
Price: on long haul (eg NRT), AY economy is more expensive (2300€) than SK eco extra (2000€). Quite a difference in seating/service/mileage accrual. I won't even start on why 2 return tickets within Europe are cheaper than one - this is not AY specific.

2300€?? What kind of ticket this was?
From where?

2300€?? What kind of ticket this was?
From where?

Shocking, isnt't? A simple HEL-NRT-HEL (Sun-Fri) in April, no frills - this was the ONLY price the website gave. (and for biz over 4000€)

(Last April Mrs Wilco flew with me for under 500€ to KIX, but that was then, this is now)

Shocking, isnt't? A simple HEL-NRT-HEL (Sun-Fri) in April, no frills - this was the ONLY price the website gave. (and for biz over 4000€)

(Last April Mrs Wilco flew with me for under 500€ to KIX, but that was then, this is now)

I have noticed this also many times, their website (and many other airline websites too, not just AY) give these very expensive tickets for some reason (well, the one who asks isn't the fool, it is the one who pays :) ).

One reason why I use travel agency ...

Shocking, isnt't? A simple HEL-NRT-HEL (Sun-Fri) in April, no frills - this was the ONLY price the website gave. (and for biz over 4000€)

(Last April Mrs Wilco flew with me for under 500€ to KIX, but that was then, this is now)

That fare 2300€ is because there is no 6 days in NRT or fri/sat or sat/sun night in NRT. HEL-NRT Sunday and NRT-HEL friday makes it bookingclass K which is one of the highest fares in AY tickets.

One more night in Tokyo and fare is about 800€ because you stay fri/sat night in NRT.

Thanks for welcoming me! :-)
I've really noticed a decline in AY's general level of service in the last couple of years - before it was exemplary. Or maybe the world went ahead and AY treaded in place?

I have not noticed this on s/h flights. Longhaul I would readily agree for Y but not C/J. Anyway, cabin staff have been regularly ranting about Mr.Hienonen and his cost cutting fervour for a while now...

That fare 2300€ is because there is no 6 days in NRT or fri/sat or sat/sun night in NRT. HEL-NRT Sunday and NRT-HEL friday makes it bookingclass K which is one of the highest fares in AY tickets.

One more night in Tokyo and fare is about 800€ because you stay fri/sat night in NRT.

I know, but as I spend already too many weekends away from home, I'd rather shell out a bit more and be back Fri night (illaksi kotiin :-)) What I finally did was, I shelled out 200€ more (compared to AY Y-class) to have J class outbound and S inbound - back home Fri afternoon. On SK.

BTW the weekend in GOT went well, only 1 out of 8 bags was left behind in HEL, so AY's success rate is 87,5%! (sarcasm warning!)

It is tough for AY to compete against all the LCC's and the other majors who have more resources available to them.

Well, Finnair is doing pretty well at the moment as a listed company. Cost cutting is showing superficial improvement.

But from a frequent flyer point of view standards in longhaul economy have sunk so low as not being acceptable anymore. Also the delayed overhaul of HEL has left much to be desired there and this year is going to be worst ever for transit pax.

It is tough for AY to compete against all the LCC's and the other majors who have more resources available to them.

I don't think there isn't that much LCC competition to AY. There are very few LCCs flying to/in Finland, and the ones that do don't really compete on AY's routes or have some really inconvenient flight timings completely inappropriate for the bread'n'butter business travelers. Also a lot of LCCs have either stopped or will stop flying to Finland because of insufficient loads and the fact that the extra hour or so of flying time from Central Europe really does make a difference in aircraft utilization. 4U, XG, NB, soon VE etc. have all withdrawn for these reasons.

PS. before anyone brings up KF - they really aren't a LCC - although they try so hard to be.

I don't think there isn't that much LCC competition to AY.Agreed. One other thing is that AY is still able to charge a lot of money for flights. If you make a rough comparison with the UK (which has a lot of LCC competition) the ex-Finland fares are much higher on the average. Looking at flights over similar distance that is - as Finland is further away from most popular European destinations that tends to increase the price as well.

I used to LOVE Finnair and to certain extent still do, however:

New Seat in Airbus 320/321 is a total NO GO
Lounge closing times in HEL are too early

Doing MAN-HEL-TLL-HEL-MAN twice in last month or so, my luggage has gone missing on 3 out of the 4 legs.