Perhaps somebody can clear this up for me.

While on US 1454 two weeks ago (LAX-PIT red-eye), I had a sleepless flight. Sitting in 1C, I had a nice view of the forward galley and flight deck door. As most of the flight slept, I noticed that on four separate occassions the pilots opened the flight deck door, looked around the galley for the non-present FA and then either returned to the flight deck or went into the lavatory.

On two other occassions one of the pilots came out of the flight deck to converse with the FA.

Now, here's what's bothering me. In none of these instances was there any attempt to barricade the forward galley from the passenger cabin. I've not seen this since before 9/11. My understanding was that there are protocols in place requiring a physical barrier (i.e., the food-beverage cart) to be placed between the passenger area and the galley, and the area be manned by at least one FA while the door to the flight deck was unsecured.

My understanding was that there are protocols in place requiring a physical barrier (i.e., the food-beverage cart) to be placed between the passenger area and the galley, and the area be manned by at least one FA while the door to the flight deck was unsecured.

While I thought this was SOP, I've seen the gamut of options... ranging from absolutely nothing done, to having the FA get behind the beverage cart and stand sentry until the pilot is done.

I'd be curious what the FAA regs are vs. what the airline operating rules are on this. The whole practice of having an FA block the aisle with a cart seems a little pointless. Determined person(s) will get by the cart and F/A pretty easily.

Without going into details - hopefully you'll understand - there is a procedure for pilots leaving the cockpit though it may vary from carrier to carrier. However, the US procedure does not include a requirement to "barricade" the forward galley area with a meal cart.

After 9-11, and before the doors were replaced with the armored ones, some pilots (and some F/A's) improvised the "barricade" procedure and it lingers on to this day.

Jim

I've noticed an FA going into the cockpit when the pilot comes out. I assume in case something would happen to the remaining pilot they can open the door.

I've noticed an FA going into the cockpit when the pilot comes out. I assume in case something would happen to the remaining pilot they can open the door.

I've seen the same. On my UA flights, I've seen an FA barricade the forward galley area when the captain comes out. On US and AA flights, I've seen the FA go into the cockpit while the Pilot uses the lav. So it probably just depends on A.) the carrier, B.) the crew, and C.) the route. I say the "route" because when flying into smaller cities on smaller planes, I've seen the pilot come out to use the lav without the FA guarding the area or entering the cockpit.

Regards,
Michael

Perhaps somebody can clear this up for me.

While on US 1454 two weeks ago (LAX-PIT red-eye), I had a sleepless flight. Sitting in 1C, I had a nice view of the forward galley and flight deck door. As most of the flight slept, I noticed that on four separate occassions the pilots opened the flight deck door, looked around the galley for the non-present FA and then either returned to the flight deck or went into the lavatory.

On two other occassions one of the pilots came out of the flight deck to converse with the FA.

Now, here's what's bothering me. In none of these instances was there any attempt to barricade the forward galley from the passenger cabin. I've not seen this since before 9/11. My understanding was that there are protocols in place requiring a physical barrier (i.e., the food-beverage cart) to be placed between the passenger area and the galley, and the area be manned by at least one FA while the door to the flight deck was unsecured.

Are we really expected to beleive that a beverage cart is an effective way of preventing a potential hijacker from entering the cockpit? Seems more than slightly ridiculous to me. Surely the only way to ensure the cockpit is secure is if the pilot closes the door behind him.

This brings to mind, however, an instance where the pilot on an African airline - I won't name it! - left the cockpit to go to the lav. Whilst he was there, the co-pilot left the cockpit also, to get some coffee.

The door clicked shut behind him. The plane was on auto-pilot, but both the pilot and his co-pilot were locked out. They had to enlist the help of the passengers to break into the cockpit in order to land!

Are we really expected to beleive that a beverage cart is an effective way of preventing a potential hijacker from entering the cockpit? Seems more than slightly ridiculous to me.

A valid point, but with all security measures, it's merely an attempt to thwart unwanted actions. Are we really expected to believe that simple locks on doors and windows will really keep an intruder out of our homes if they really want to get in? Certainly not. But they provide substantial enough barriers to give great frustration and, one hopes, enough barrier to thwart entry.

Ditto for airlines here in the US that opt to use the beverage cart when a pilot signals that s/he needs to leave the flight deck for any reason. Several domestic carriers have that as SOP. US/HP doesn't ..... I, too, generally see a f/a enter the flightdeck as the pilot leaves. All the while, there is generally the "A" f/a standing akimbo at the front of the galley at row one looking ridiculous.

However, what you don't know is that, more and more likely is the fact that the pilot has a gun and is trained to shoot to kill.

All the while, there is generally the "A" f/a standing akimbo at the front of the galley at row one looking ridiculous.

I heard a rumor that on a recent PHX flight, our resident US mascot-lobjaw was summoned to duty when his captain had to pee, and he did the America West wonder woman pose in front of the flight deck door.

OK before some of you start demanding my source, pics, links, etc.....this was just a joke. Had this been at all factual....well you still wouldn't get either of the above.

Without going into details - hopefully you'll understand - there is a procedure for pilots leaving the cockpit though it may vary from carrier to carrier. However, the US procedure does not include a requirement to "barricade" the forward galley area with a meal cart.


On the MD80's on AA I have seen them "barricade" the door on every occassion this year.

On the MD80's on AA I have seen them "barricade" the door on every occassion this year.

If it's that consistent, it's probably part of their procedure (but that's based on absolutely no knowledge of AA's procedures).

Jim

On my flight from MBJ to CLT on a 752, my girlfriend had just got up to use the lavatory in first, and the FA stopped her, and my GF came back to the seat as the FA moved the beverage cart to barricade the front area. Someone from the flight deck came out to use the restroom, the FA went into the cockpit. After everything was done, the FA was apologetic about having to stop my GF. No harm, no foul ;) On the way down to MBJ, I don't remember the cart being used as a barricade though.

Are we really expected to beleive that a beverage cart is an effective way of preventing a potential hijacker from entering the cockpit? Seems more than slightly ridiculous to me. Surely the only way to ensure the cockpit is secure is if the pilot closes the door behind him

....as an effective way of preventing a potential hijacker from entering the cockpit? No, I don't see it as its purpose.

I do see it as a means of, perhaps quite briefly, slowing down their advance (whether that be through their having to push the thing clear while it's brakes are applied, or jump over it and rendering themselves potentially off-balanced). I think in situations like that, seconds count. If you can slow their arrival to the cockpit door by a second or two, you could give the flight crew that extra second to get door locked behind them.

Or maybe this is just eye-candy to give us a false sense of security. Either way, I'm okay with it. LOL

This brings to mind, however, an instance where the pilot on an African airline - I won't name it! - left the cockpit to go to the lav. Whilst he was there, the co-pilot left the cockpit also, to get some coffee.

The door clicked shut behind him. The plane was on auto-pilot, but both the pilot and his co-pilot were locked out. They had to enlist the help of the passengers to break into the cockpit in order to land!

Ay yi yi!

On the MD80's on AA I have seen them "barricade" the door on every occassion this year.

If it's that consistent, it's probably part of their procedure (but that's based on absolutely no knowledge of AA's procedures).

I can speak in regard to AA's procedure. I've seen this done on every flight(providing I'm not asleep). We all know how serious AA can get in regards to security.

On a recent flight from PHL-SEA (on a West plane, IIRC) the amazingly attentive FA gave us a little speech about just this thing. The FA said, "Attention first class customers..." She then stated something to the effect that the universal symbol for us not to get up and move forward is if another FA or the food cart was blocking the galley. (She also told us her name and some other miscellaneous information.)

I don't think that I have ever heard that specifically announced before. Is it a West thing? Something new? I didn't hear anything to that effect on my flights last week (though they were East).

We all know how serious AA can get in regards to security.

Anecdotal question: how are they more or less serious about it than anyone else? I'd say (based on the fact they bounced a secret service agent, for instance, on his way to protect the president after 9/11) they may be more paranoid about it, but I'm not sure I'd use serious.

On a recent UA flight, instead of a meal cart, there was a built-in, retractable fence. The FA would pull the fence across the aisle anytime the pilot would leave the cockpit. It looked like a high-tensile farm fence.

If only it was electric. :eek:

I've seen the UA retractable metal "fence" before. Then again, on a recent AC flight from Toronto to Albany (a B1900 with no lav) - the flight deck "door" was left open the entire time we were at cruise altitude. The door was closed at around 10K feet (just a guess) - I could see the state buildings almost perfectly through the cockpit window as we did our initial.

In this day and age of airline security and terrorist threats, most of the security measures such as the FA blocking the door when the pilot needs to use the lav, not hanging out by the door to the flight deck or even not being able to carry liquids on to airplanes, is all a facade. The only real security that works are the air marshal's on the planes or passengers or crew that pitch in to subdue a threat while in the air.

IE. El Al Flt 219, Sept 6th, 1970, Dawson Field hijacking's which resulted in the death of Patrick Arguelleo, one of the plane's hijackers.

Every pilot is different and I honor their request, however the cart to me seems to actually signal that someone is coming out of the cockpit. I always stand guard at the door.