I've been flying US/AW exclusively for the last 4 years. In about 20 minutes I'm about to experience for the 1st time WN. I"m flying them back to phx from sna b/c the cost to change my original US itinerary was far more than this one way ($260 change, $128 on wn). Have any other heavy US flyers made this move? I have angst about the preboard process :D

Looking around the gate area it is primarily business men and women, and not a child in sight. But then again this is John Wayne, primarily a business traveler airport for all intense purposes.

I've got my "A" BP in hand (yeah! :rolleyes:)

I'll post my opinion later. I just hope I don't hear any cheesy one liners from the flight attendants. I just want a quiet cabin and get home (this flight already by the way is 1.25 hours late deparating).

Have any other heavy US flyers made this move?

I've a good friend who was a US CP for many years but made the switch to WN a year or so ago when he didn't requalify for preferred on US. His business related travel dropped significantly the year before and when he did travel, it was on his own dime. With PHX as his base, WN was a clear price-winner on most routes for him. Having been a snob about his preferred status on US for many years this was quite a humbling change! But he says he doesn't regret it at all.

I hope your first experience on WN went well. Although I travel US and UA for long trips, I fly WN for almost all of my shorter trips around the southwest -- ie, between SJC, LAX, SNA, SAN, LAS, and PHX.

Once you have your "A" BP in hand you can avoid most of the cattle call. Wait in the lounge until after the A line starts moving, and join onto the end of it. You'll be able to get an aisle or window seat, whichever is your choice.

Joking FAs are largely a thing of the past. Almost all of them are still friendly and upbeat, just not practicing for stand-up comedy anymore. I guess the airline has started to feel a bit more professional as it's growing up.

Speaking of professionals, you'll find that a signficant number of travelers on many WN routes are businesspeople. Sure, you'll always see the once-a-year-vacationer types. But last-minute business travelers on short routes who can't afford last-minute legacy carrier prices are one of WN's big constituencies. Likely their most profitable one, actually.

Speaking of professionals, you'll find that a signficant number of travelers on many WN routes are businesspeople. Sure, you'll always see the once-a-year-vacationer types. But last-minute business travelers on short routes who can't afford last-minute legacy carrier prices are one of WN's big constituencies. Likely their most profitable one, actually.

Of course it really depends on the routes the professionals are flying, but I would have to say that this is the reason WN is what it is today...a royal PITA for the legacies.

But last-minute business travelers on short routes who can't afford last-minute legacy carrier prices are one of WN's big constituencies. Likely their most profitable one, actually.

Supposedly, WN sells a higher percentage of full (albeit reasonable) fares than any legacy.

Jim

Supposedly, WN sells a higher percentage of full (albeit reasonable) fares than any legacy.

Jim


That's not what they said when they decided to cut capacity growth and put forward new initiatives to attract business travelers through assigned seating, internet, and better reward programs. I specifically remember a quote I read from the CEO saying something to the effect of "We can sell every plane out entirely full with the cheap fares, that is no problem, but we are having a really hard time selling those full, business fares"

And I know for all of the business travelers that I know, they would never pay a full business fare on WN (well.....when they aren't the only option). It doesn't make sense for them (or me) to pay a high fare to WN, when I could pay an equally high fare on a full service airline where my patronage actually shows me some decent returns and rewards.

WN is about the only airline I wouldn't trade US for. I've flown them twice and hated it both times. Although, after my PIT-PHX-LIH flight a few days ago, US is taking a run at them...

That's not what they said when they decided to cut capacity growth and put forward new initiatives to attract business travelers through assigned seating, internet, and better reward programs. I specifically remember a quote I read from the CEO saying something to the effect of "We can sell every plane out entirely full with the cheap fares, that is no problem, but we are having a really hard time selling those full, business fares"

First, I didn't state it as a fact because I don't know it to be one.

Second, I suspect that every airline exec could honestly say "We can sell every plane out entirely full with the cheap fares", so that doesn't mean a thing when it comes to the percentage[I] of full fares WN (or any other carrier) sells.

Third, "we are having a really hard time selling those full business fares" is probably also something that any other airline exec could say. Do you doubt that any exec wouldn't like to sell more full fares and less rock-bottom fares than they currently are?

In the end, neither of us really knows if WN sells a higher or lower [I]percentage of full fares than any other carrier. Hence, I prefaced it with "Supposedly" as opposed to "That's not what they said..." when what they said had no substantive answer to the percentage of full fares they sell.

Jim

[added] Dug out where I'd seen WN's full fare sales percentage - Brancatelli column:

"Southwest has actually increased the percentage of unrestricted, full-fare tickets it sells. Last year [2002 - Jim], 35 percent of all its tickets were sold at full fare compared to only 31 percent in 2001."

Don't have any idea what that percentage is today, but I'd wager that any airline exec would trade his/her mother for the ability to sell even 10% of tickets from the Y bucket.

SWA's full fare % is back down again. It's been in the upper 20% range for the past couple years. It fluctuates between 25% and 35%, which is far higher than the percentage of full fare tix that legacies sell. However the most expensive SWA full fare is $329 one-way and that certainly can't be said for the legacies, which is why the legacies sell a lower percentage of full fares............................

My days of flying southwest are over. It's too chaotic. There is no order when boarding, despite the A, B, and C "stations". People were making lines through the seat aisles, around them, and out into the concourse. By the time they preboarded kids, elderly, those that need extra help, and tight connecting passengers, the first 7 rows were completely full. I was in the front of the A "line" and snagged a window in 8. Yes, the seats are more comfy, and not sure about the increased seat pitch compared to US, and yes the aircraft was nice and new, but I'll pass next time, thanks. When I got out into concourse C at phx, I thought I was in another world and in no way resembled the A and B concourse just down the way. I felt like I was in another airport--hundreds of people everywhere, the bars were full of beer chuggin' folks all getting ready to herd onto the next cattle drive.

No moooo for me :rolleyes:

which is why the legacies sell a lower percentage of full fares............................

I agree 100% - WN's reasonable fare structure is mostly, if not totally, responsible. And thanks for more up to date verification of the percentages.

Jim

The last 2 companies I worked for basically forbid us from flying SWA. The first company said it was a travel agent issue, but I don't know where that factors in. Current company forbids it because our staff are always late and carrying presentation materials - which then don't fit in the bin space and need to be checked, making them late for meetings.

I used to really like flying them for personal use, but probably haven't been one one of their planes for 4 years now.

I don't fly CowWest either. When I travel for work, ORD is far enough from my home let alone the extra trip to MDW. But they are almost NEVER cheaper than US from ORD - PHX or ONT. Which suits me fine, I am not ever in a big hurry to crowd myself onto a plane and I generally wait until most of the boarding nonsense is over for any flight.

Is it just me, or has the boarding process on US become much more like the herds trying to board WN? Now that nearly half the plane seems to be at least a silver preferred member, some of the jockeying for gate positions on US flights reminds me a little of my experiences at WN. The new boarding sequence (where only first and those requiring assistance board before preferreds) does not seem to have helped this at all (perhaps because the GAs are not enforcing it--on several occasions I have seen at least 30 able-bodied persons without children board in the first group on a 737 with only 8 FC seats). There are so many preferreds these days they really should consider pre-boarding by preferred status. On some of my flights, pre-boarding has been just as chaotic as my worst experiences on WN. But at least I know where I will be sitting, and I'm sure my seat will not be facing the rear of the plane . . .

I moved to Phoenix in January of this year and flew SWA the first three months and then switched to USAir. SWA was great and I really liked how I could change flights very easily without fees, etc.

The only part I didn't like is that they don't have priority security lines for companion pass members (PHX lines can be very long some days), and they don't allow standby. If they changed both of those items then I'd probably switch back as I'm not very impressed by US Air.

Are you sure PHX doesn't let Southwest people pass premium security?
A lot of airports allow people with rapid rewards cards (no status) to use premium security - PDX and SEA for example. Portland even has a picture of the Southwest card under allowed cards for their premium security.
-A

Is it just me, or has the boarding process on US become much more like the herds trying to board WN? Now that nearly half the plane seems to be at least a silver preferred member, some of the jockeying for gate positions on US flights reminds me a little of my experiences at WN. The new boarding sequence (where only first and those requiring assistance board before preferreds) does not seem to have helped this at all (perhaps because the GAs are not enforcing it--on several occasions I have seen at least 30 able-bodied persons without children board in the first group on a 737 with only 8 FC seats). There are so many preferreds these days they really should consider pre-boarding by preferred status. On some of my flights, pre-boarding has been just as chaotic as my worst experiences on WN. But at least I know where I will be sitting, and I'm sure my seat will not be facing the rear of the plane . . .

Personally I think WNs boarding is more orderly than what US's has been lately. IF YOU HAVE A 5 ON YOUR BOARDING PASS, DONT STAND IN A SEMICIRCLE THAT BLOCKS THE DOOR!

Are you sure PHX doesn't let Southwest people pass premium security?
A lot of airports allow people with rapid rewards cards (no status) to use premium security - PDX and SEA for example. Portland even has a picture of the Southwest card under allowed cards for their premium security.
-A

Although Southwest and America West/US Airways both share T4 at PHX, the are on opposite sides of the terminal. WN uses the C/D concourses, while HP/US uses the A/B concourses. There is a way to connect between them from the high B's over to C, but I've never done it.

There are security lines at each concourse (A, B, C, and D), however the C and D side (for WN/TZ) don't have a priority line. The last few times I've flown (just my experiences), I've noticed the A and B security sending WN/TZ pax away after seeing their boarding passes, and making announcements that the line is only for US Airways/America West (BA also I'd assume they know when that applies). Security lines for WN can get pretty long, especially at the C concourse. I've seen some long lines at A and B, but thankfully my status lets me go in the F/elite line.

aztimm,
I've commented on this over on the WN forum. I used to go through B and then run over to C when the Heifer Hauler's lines backed up. But now that B is long if you don't have a US Elite status and also someone here said they are turning back WN fliers, that's out.

The single thing that keeps me away from WN is lack of elite security screening. I inevitably get stuck behind a farmer flying for his second time, who has 4 pounds of keys, two jackknives and a lighter in his pockets. :D

If they would open up CP screening in all of the major airports, I might consider them again.

IF YOU HAVE A 5 ON YOUR BOARDING PASS, DONT STAND IN A SEMICIRCLE THAT BLOCKS THE DOOR!

Actually, people with a "1" on their boarding passes appear to be the bigger problem at this time than those in Zone 5. The people in Zone 5 don't expect any special treatment, whereas all the FTD and credit card silvers think they own the place. They are the ones now making it impossible for FC and Pre-Boarders to reach the gate. Of course, all FTers know about the new boarding procedures, and I should probably find another forum to gripe about it. Next flight, I'm thinking of making a huge sign that says something like: "Hey you, with the Zone 1 on your boarding pass: unless your pass also says "First Class" on it, get the hell out of the way. All those flowers you bought last year don't give you the right to pre-board this plane. Better buy more next year. . ."

P.S. In the spirit of full disclosure, my status as an "FTD Platinum" does give me the right to make fun of others who also bought their status last year. I would've made gold without the purchases, but was close enough to Platinum that it made sense to game the system to give me a better shot at upgrades (what a waste of money).

P.P.S. Is it just me, or do those with the greatest sense of entitlement (and the least amount of etiquette) tend to be on the lower end of the preferred ranks? The most pleasant travelers I have ever encountered have Chairman status, while the most obnoxious tend to be Silver. Sort of makes me wish that the airline institute a policy whereby two or three other preferred travelers (plus a FA or GA) could nominate someone to lose their status for being a complete jerk. Like the reverse of nominating someone to preferred status. Perhaps I should start another post with this query.

I tried converting to WN back in 2003. Here's my experience.

After 10 years, Im coming back. (http://flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=801243&postcount=10)

Are you sure PHX doesn't let Southwest people pass premium security?
A lot of airports allow people with rapid rewards cards (no status) to use premium security - PDX and SEA for example. Portland even has a picture of the Southwest card under allowed cards for their premium security.
-A

Although Southwest and America West/US Airways both share T4 at PHX, the are on opposite sides of the terminal. WN uses the C/D concourses, while HP/US uses the A/B concourses. There is a way to connect between them from the high B's over to C, but I've never done it.


Not too long ago WN did use B gates(N4) in T4. However, even then WN pax were not allowed to use the elite lines. Thankfully, PHX/US decided not to pollute the elite lines with the unwashed WN pax.

Although Southwest and America West/US Airways both share T4 at PHX, the are on opposite sides of the terminal. WN uses the C/D concourses, while HP/US uses the A/B concourses. There is a way to connect between them from the high B's over to C, but I've never done it.


There is a pedestrian skybridge connecting the two. It is an easy walk. At PHX, the WN security line can snake all the way down the hallway. I always advise my co-workers who fly WN to go through US security and walk back around.

In LAS, things are much more difficult. Most days, the C concourse is a zoo and the only way to avoid the mess is to go through A/B secuirty and hope the shuttle bus from B22-C8 is running. Look for WN or US flights in RED print on the monitor as a quick cheat for shuttle availability.