I'm flying from Heathrow to Rome at the end of Sept.
Is it safe to book the flight given the airlines financial problems?
Better to book now or wait?

I've put my own money where my 'mouth' is just to be as I've booked longhaul flights to NRT from LHR leaving at the end of September. I've no guarantees, but I'm fully expecting them to operate.

The only thing I am concerned about is whether our connection from FCO to MXP will be sufficient to make the MXP connection (50 minutes).

An earlier flight was considerably more expensive.

What tends to happen in this kind of scenario? If the connection is missed because of a delay getting on (or getting off) the FCO-MXP flight will they book us onto the next day's flight? Or put us on an alternative route? Do they cover the cost of accommodation if the former?

And also, would AZ put us on an earlier FCO-MXP if we turned up early and there was space available? (Hopefully, should avoid above hassles).

Sorry for hijacking this thread (there are quite a few already hypothesising whether AZ will exist in the next few months), but this is also an Alitalia concern.

EDIT TO ADD: Ouch! Just found the historical delay statistics for this flight
AZ 1044 Alitalia 55% of flights delayed 14 minutes is the average max is 74 minutes - on the upside, 0% of the flights were cancelled
Data from http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightRating

Anyone know how far the incoming flight from FCO and the departing flight to NRT are usually from each other at MXP - and how long does it take to clear immigration/passport control?

Grazie!

To answer to your questions, LapLap:

If the flight from FCO is ontime, you should make it; and don't worry, AZ usually waits for transfer PAX when the FCO-MXP route is involved. Some time ago we waited (on a MXP-FCO flight) for 20 minutes a passenger that was coming late into MXP from STR.

I don't know your exact schedule, but the possibility of being put on an earlier FCO-MXP flight is usually low. Despite what many people think, there aren't that many daily flights on this route. AZ flies FCO-LIN every 20/30 minutes at peak times, but FCO-MXP is served 7-8 times a day only. I know it seems odd, but that's the way it is...

In MXP, you'll arrive at gates A (domestic & Schengen) and leave from gates B (international non-Schengen). You'll have to clear immigration and go through a security check IIRC (not a big deal except during US departures in the morning from 9 to 11am). Usually, if the FCO-MXP flight is operated by an Airbus plane, you will deboard using an airbridge; if a M80 is used, you'll probably be bussed to the terminal (this will take some more minutes).

To answer to your questions, LapLap:

I don't know your exact schedule, but the possibility of being put on an earlier FCO-MXP flight is usually low. Despite what many people think, there aren't that many daily flights on this route. AZ flies FCO-LIN every 20/30 minutes at peak times, but FCO-MXP is served 7-8 times a day only. I know it seems odd, but that's the way it is...

Moreover, if they have checked luggage (as i suspect) this is NOT POSSIBLE. It seems that, in FCO and MIL, handling agents are not able to locate transit bags to move them on an earlier flight.
Ok i know... it's a shame... welcome to Italy :(

Laplap, if you misconnect, u'll be re-protected. As per my previous experiences, they are quite flexible in re-protecting u (but probably a good command of italian helps a lot). About accomodation they are a little bit more picky but that's another story (it seems there's no a fix rule: they use a case-by-case system).

BTW, if something goes wrong, remember them there is the "Services Chart and passengers Rights of Enac", where there are stated ur rights....

Usually italian carriers "forget" it, so it's useful to remember them they HAVE to COMPLY with those rules.

Luke:P

Totally agree with Paffendorf!

I often have the impression that, if there is a good number of passengers to reaccomodate, AZ protects Italians & Italian speakers first, then it takes care of the others.

I don't know if it's their "corporate policy" (;)), but whenever I had a problem, I got the impression that they wanted to help me and all other Italian speakers first.

Btw, some time ago AZ used to have a codeshare agreement with Japan Airlines on the MXP-NRT. I don't know if this is still valid, since JK joined Oneworld earlier this year and maybe the agreement was terminated (AZ being in Skyteam). In the case it still exists, you might have a chance of being put on this flight in case you miss the connection on your original AZ service.

Just checked: the codeshare still exists.
JL 418 operates on Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat and leaves MXP at 9.40pm; the codeshare AZ 7786 is on Fri & Sat only.
Btw AZ is operating direct services FCO-NRT (4x weekly at 1.55pm) and they might put you on that one if the flight to MXP is late.

Btw, some time ago AZ used to have a codeshare agreement with Japan Airlines on the MXP-NRT. I don't know if this is still valid, since JK joined Oneworld earlier this year and maybe the agreement was terminated (AZ being in Skyteam). In the case it still exists, you might have a chance of being put on this flight in case you miss the connection on your original AZ service.

the codeshare still exists but... how to explain.

Certain days there are 2 flights from MXP to NRT, 1 in the afternoon operated by AZ (no code-share) and 1 at 9 pm more or less operated by JL (on this flight AZ should have its code).
This happens 3xW if i'm not wrong.

In the other days of the week, there's only 1 flight from MXP to NRT, the afternoon flight operated by AZ (JL has its own code on this flight).

Hope this helps

In MXP, you'll arrive at gates A (domestic & Schengen) and leave from gates B (international non-Schengen). You'll have to clear immigration and go through a security check IIRC You only go through security when you arrive from non-Schengen and are transfering to Schengen. They discontinuted the security checks going from A to B a year or so ago. (although they sometimes have someone on the jetway asking if you have any liquids or gels as you walk through carrying a bottle of duty free booze, just ignore...)

Wow!

Grazie mille for the wealth of information! A lot of it is quite reassuring too.

paffendorf and SwissexLUG - I downloaded the JAL pdf timetable and indeed there is the 4xweekly MXP-NRT service for JL418 21:40. We're travelling on Monday so we might not be completely screwed after all.

I'm Spanish and can understand much of what's said in Italian (although I need someone with a bit of patience to understand me). Hopefully this will help should I hit any turbulence.
Also MrLapLap speaks Japanese, so this might help with the JAL side should we miss the connection.

As we'll be spending 3 nights in Roma as part of a layover we'll be checking in at FCO from scratch. I was thinking that perhaps I could ask if AZ would put us on an early FCO-LIN and take the responsibility for our own connection, but with JL being a very possible option I'm much happier now about our ticketed flights and will be focusing on enjoying our Monday morning in the citta eterna.

Ti ringrazio di cuore

As we'll be spending 3 nights in Roma as part of a layover we'll be checking in at FCO from scratch. I was thinking that perhaps I could ask if AZ would put us on an early FCO-LIN and take the responsibility for our own connection, but with JL being a very possible option I'm much happier now about our ticketed flights and will be focusing on enjoying our Monday morning in the citta eterna.

Ti ringrazio di cuore

TO LIN?!?!?
May i ask you why do you want to go to LIN when in a few you'll depart from MXP?
You need at least 3 hours to be sure to catch your connecting flight.

I suggest you to be rebooked on an earlier flight FCO-MXP ;)

TO LIN?!?!?
May i ask you why do you want to go to LIN when in a few you'll depart from MXP?
You need at least 3 hours to be sure to catch your connecting flight.

I suggest you to be rebooked on an earlier flight FCO-MXP ;)

As has been mentioned, there aren't many flights on this route. I could have booked the earlier FCO-MXP flight but I'd already added to the expense of a very cheap ticket by adding a layover. The earlier FCO-MXP flight was considerably more expensive. By getting it my ticket would have cost the same as a direct LHR-NRT JAL or ANA ticket. My 3 nights in Rome is opportunistic rather than planned. (Basically, we now have a 3 night Rome layover including accommodation for the same price as going to NRT direct)

Unlike many other people, I really like Milan and wouldn't mind the chance to travel through and pay my respects at the Duomo. Most people wouldn't want to do this transfer which is why I suspected that AZ might be more tolerant of this request. After all, the intention is to help them help me make the MXP-NRT flight in a way that won't financially compromise them.

But it was just an idea. If it was Tuesday and there was no JAL flight in the evening, I might have looked into this further.

dupe...

It's taken me a while to digest some of the information. Things might not be so hunky dory after all.

Is it the concensus that Alitalia will probably not put us on the later JAL flight if it isn't actually a code-share?

Here's my case. Flying on the AZ1044 FCO-MXP on Monday (we arrived at FCO on Friday)

The direct FCO-NRT afternoon AZ flights only depart on Tue, Fri, Sat - AZ784
(there are FCO-NRT JAL code share evening flights on Tue, Thu, Sun) - AZ7788

from MXP-NRT
The afternoon AZ flight departs daily (AZ786)
The JAL code-share evening flight departs on Fri, Sat (AZ7786)

Is it the concensus that Alitalia will probably not put us on the later JAL flight if it isn't actually a code-share?

Here's my case. Flying on the AZ1044 FCO-MXP on Monday (we arrived at FCO on Friday)

The direct FCO-NRT afternoon AZ flights only depart on Tue, Fri, Sat - AZ784
(there are FCO-NRT JAL code share evening flights on Tue, Thu, Sun) - AZ7788

from MXP-NRT
The afternoon AZ flight departs daily (AZ786)
The JAL code-share evening flight departs on Fri, Sat (AZ7786)

I'm not sure if I got your point, but:

If there is no AZ number on the JL flight, then AZ has no own seats on that JL flight. Therefore I don't know if they put you on that one. Probably they would prefer keeping you one night in MXP or routing you via CDG on AF (Skyteam partner).

Normally carriers don't like endorsing tickets to allow own passengers to fly with airlines that do not belong to the same alliance.

IMO, I think you'll make the connection w/o any problems. There will be hardly any passengers moving from gates A to gates B at that time of the day and it will take you no more than 20 minutes (10 to walk between the gates and 5 to clear immigration, another 5 if you need to be bussed to the terminal). IIRC, there are only a few flights leaving from B at that time (BA to LHR; EK to DXB; LX to ZRH; AZ to NRT, KIX, ACC, PRG, LHR, BUD).

AZ usually waits ex-FCO PAX who connect on ex-MXP intercont services and there will probably be s.o. else on AZ 1044 who connects on services to NRT/KIX/ACC.

As has been mentioned, there aren't many flights on this route. I could have booked the earlier FCO-MXP flight but I'd already added to the expense of a very cheap ticket by adding a layover. The earlier FCO-MXP flight was considerably more expensive. By getting it my ticket would have cost the same as a direct LHR-NRT JAL or ANA ticket. My 3 nights in Rome is opportunistic rather than planned. (Basically, we now have a 3 night Rome layover including accommodation for the same price as going to NRT direct)

Unlike many other people, I really like Milan and wouldn't mind the chance to travel through and pay my respects at the Duomo. Most people wouldn't want to do this transfer which is why I suspected that AZ might be more tolerant of this request. After all, the intention is to help them help me make the MXP-NRT flight in a way that won't financially compromise them.

But it was just an idea. If it was Tuesday and there was no JAL flight in the evening, I might have looked into this further.

You can fly into LIN and departing from MXP but u need a lot of time! ;)

It's taken me a while to digest some of the information. Things might not be so hunky dory after all.

Is it the concensus that Alitalia will probably not put us on the later JAL flight if it isn't actually a code-share?


If you misconnect due to an AZ delay, they *have* to reprotect you on JL o similars (of course based on space availability)

IMO, I think you'll make the connection w/o any problems. There will be hardly any passengers moving from gates A to gates B at that time of the day and it will take you no more than 20 minutes (10 to walk between the gates and 5 to clear immigration, another 5 if you need to be bussed to the terminal). IIRC, there are only a few flights leaving from B at that time (BA to LHR; EK to DXB; LX to ZRH; AZ to NRT, KIX, ACC, PRG, LHR, BUD).

AZ usually waits ex-FCO PAX who connect on ex-MXP intercont services and there will probably be s.o. else on AZ 1044 who connects on services to NRT/KIX/ACC.
I found out that the AZ1044 FCO-MXP flight has a history of minor delays - but I also see that the AZ786 to NRT has a history of slightly longer delays. This fits in exactly with what you've said. This gives me greater peace of mind.

Should it still all go wrong, I'll take paffendorf's words into consideration and attempt to insist on a re-route.

Muchisimas gracias! It's wonderful to have the luxury of weighing up and assimilating this kind of information now rather than at the airport and on the day.


My brain hasn't really adjusted to the fact that I'm not as young, healthy or energetic as I once was and that I have a husband who loves being in places but hates travelling to them - not so long ago I would have jumped at the chance of an early morning flight to LIN and a few hours in Milan... but I have to accept that those days are behind me. My bad back would complain, and so would my husband!