G'Day -

I was on the patio in my backyard on the 4th and my yard happens to back up to a decent sized park. Some folks were putting off a spectacular fireworks display that someone likely purchased across the state line (i.e. the fireworks you would see at a professional display).

During one of the spectacular displays, a chunk of unexploded firework came down and nailed me in the chest. Thankfully it wasn't burning or hot - nor was I injured; it just stung a bit; most thankfully it only hit my chest in the peck area (and not my face!).

Problem: It did leave a big brown coloured powder type stain on a good shirt. $20 says this residue will trigger an ETD or Puff Portal if not cleansed properly.

I took the shirt off and placed it in a plastic bag since it's full of a dark, chalk/powder-like residue. I have yet to wash it (still in plastic bag) as I do laundry like once every 2 weeks or so.

If I toss it in the washing machine alone, will that likely remove the residue permanently? Cold / Warm / Hot? Soak, Extra Wash cycles? Is Tide fine, or should I look at a specific detergent? Anyone have experience in this area? :D

I don't want this stuff to get around, contaminate other clothing or items and either cause the ETD to blow through the roof or set the puffer off. Sure, I can tell them it's just fireworks residue, but I don't want to have to deal with it. I could always just toss the shirt, but if I can get the residue removed without a lot of trouble that would be preferable.

If anyone knows much about the larger fireworks, the projectile that hit me was almost one inch by half an inch. It's a compressed powder, chalky in nature. I don't know much about the makeup of fireworks, but I'm going to guess a gunpowder or TNT of some type.

A few years ago I did alarm an ETD for checked luggage. Was told it was positive for traces of TNT. I was briefly detained while the TSA cleared the luggage and also requested all of my personal information. Was a pain in the kazoo ... I don't care to repeat.

Cheers!

SDF_Traveler

Why would you even risk setting of an ETD or ETP machine a second time? Are you looking to be placed on the "no-fly" list?

Why would you even risk setting of an ETD or ETP machine a second time? Are you looking to be placed on the "no-fly" list?

Because he wants to use his shirt? Or is the presence trivial/trace amounts of legal materials grounds for punishment by the gov't? I guess people who work with fireworks and in mines aren't allowed to fly. :rolleyes:

It's wrong that anyone has to worry about this. Why should the OP's name, etc. have been recorded the first time around? If he actually had non-trivial amounts of TNT I would understand it, but traces? What percentage of ETD alarms are of actual concern? Is it something other than 0%?

It'd be fun to walk around a checkin area and dust 100s of peoples bags with TNT or some other agent that alarms the ETD.

Why would you even risk setting of an ETD or ETP machine a second time? Are you looking to be placed on the "no-fly" list?

You're being sarcastic, right?

My grade in Organic Chemistry II was a D, so take that into account re this advice. Rubbing alcohol - isopropanol - affects quite a few chemicals. What material is your shirt? If cotton, should be no adverse reaction if you soak the area of impact with isopropanol for about 30 minutes. First test this treatment on an area of the shirt that is not visible when you are wearing it. Then rinse the shirt thoroughly in water. In fact, after the isopropanol I would soak the shirt in dishwashing detergent. After the rinse, wash the shirt as you normally would. I would let the shirt air dry, because tossing it in a dryer could set the residue.

Good luck!

Because he wants to use his shirt? Or is the presence trivial/trace amounts of legal materials grounds for punishment by the gov't? I guess people who work with fireworks and in mines aren't allowed to fly. :rolleyes:

It's wrong that anyone has to worry about this. Why should the OP's name, etc. have been recorded the first time around? If he actually had non-trivial amounts of TNT I would understand it, but traces? What percentage of ETD alarms are of actual concern? Is it something other than 0%?

It'd be fun to walk around a checkin area and dust 100s of peoples bags with TNT or some other agent that alarms the ETD.

FWIW, the first time it happened to me it was a Walgreens bag inside my checked luggage that had the traces of TNT.

Prior to making that trip, I went to Walgreens, purchased a few items, and tossed the bag in my checked luggage. The CTX alarmed (it happens), my bag was opened, searched and swabbed. The traces of TNT were isolated to the bag.

So Walgreens gives me a plastic bag (or an item in the bag had a trace of TNT) and I'm suddenly guilty. :rolleyes:

If setting off an ETD - which is very sensitive - is grounds to go onto the no-fly list, the state of affairs of this nation is even worse than I thought.

I don't know the first thing about TNT. If it is unlikely to come off, I'll toss the shirt - it's not the end of the world. If it washes off easily, why toss $80 out the window?

Sad thing is, as ralfp states, I shouldn't even have to worry about it -- the sad fact is I do.

The good news: there was probably no TNT on the fireworks, even from a professional display. Trinitrotolulene (TNT) is not used for any display fireworks that I am aware of. (Building demolitions in Las Vegas could be the exception. ;) )

The solution: wash it a couple of times and hope for the best. You might test positive for nitrates (components in many solid explosives) but you probably won't if you wash it a couple of times. I've handled a lot of fireworks on the 4th/New Years, flown soon afterwards, and never set off the puffer or ETD for nitrates.

I'd take Spiff's advice and give it a couple of washes but I don't think there's anything more you'll need to do to it to make it "airport safe". I'd wash it separately only to protect the other clothing from getting stained from the residue, I wouldn't be so concerned with contaminating the other clothing with something that would set off a puffer or a swab. I think you were right to be concerned but washing should take care of it.

I say this having worked in the business for the last 12 years doing everything from setting off huge display shows to backyard fireworks to working in our retail stores. My current job is to open new retail stores and I travel every week. Being in and out of our warehouses and in contact with our product on a daily basis, I've had my share of swabs and trips thru the puffer machine and I can tell you that I have never set off either - which is scary in its own right.:eek:

I say this having worked in the business for the last 12 years doing everything from setting off huge display shows to backyard fireworks to working in our retail stores. My current job is to open new retail stores and I travel every week. Being in and out of our warehouses and in contact with our product on a daily basis, I've had my share of swabs and trips thru the puffer machine and I can tell you that I have never set off either - which is scary in its own right.:eek: As was said by Spiff above, ETD and ETP look for high explosives not low explosives (gunpowder, flash powder, etc.). The reason low explosives are ignored in explosive trace testing is because they require a substantial, high-strength casing (e.g., 3/8 steel pipe, etc.) in order to be explosive (i.e., there's 0% chance they're getting through x-ray or WTMD), and any device using them will be haphazard at best.

We use rubbing alcohol to clean and sterilize the ETD machines and tables, so maybe you can spray some of that on the stain before washing it.

The reason low explosives are ignored in explosive trace testing is because they require a substantial, high-strength casing (e.g., 3/8 steel pipe, etc.) in order to be explosive (i.e., there's 0% chance they're getting through x-ray or WTMD), and any device using them will be haphazard at best.
A 0% chance? Based on reports publicized in this forum of failed tests, I doubt the chance is 0%.

As was said by Spiff above, ETD and ETP look for high explosives not low explosives (gunpowder, flash powder, etc.). The reason low explosives are ignored in explosive trace testing is because they require a substantial, high-strength casing (e.g., 3/8 steel pipe, etc.) in order to be explosive (i.e., there's 0% chance they're getting through x-ray or WTMD), and any device using them will be haphazard at best.

But you folks still take the dangerous water bottles......

I was wondering about things like this too. My #1 son had some illegal fireworks that a friend brought into CA from AL. He put them in his messenger bag that he uses for school. I told him he's now contaminated everything that goes into that bag with black powder. Since the bag is fabric I think I'll just wash it and see if that removes the residue.

As far as the Walgreens bag, any glycerin based hand lotion that may have spilled would test positive.

ab53

A 0% chance? Based on reports publicized in this forum of failed tests, I doubt the chance is 0%.

I see these articles about failed tests and I resist saying anything for fear of saying stuff I shouldn't. Look, do not feel confident about these tests done by federal inspectors. Perhaps I shouldn't reveal this, but we get heads up before these "Red Teams" come through. Having "passed" one let me assure you that they in no way could approximate the real thing. Remember, federal agencies put political correctness above everything else, including security. And please don't misunderstand this, but you must believe me when I say that the people running these tests could never come within even the periphery of the profile of a potential terrorist. Look, I'd like to maintain high levels of alertness and visual acuity at all times, but I don't. I'm selective. While I stay directed at the x-ray screen, in terms of the level of scrutiny, I make mere cursory glances at a pilot's bags and only a little higher scrutiny of the bags of let's say, a trio of middle-aged American guys with Northrup-Grumman badges. Now, when someone comes through who might have even the slightest (six degrees of separation) possibility of a connection with a terrorist (under 40, foreign national, laconic, etc.), I look over their bags like a medical doctor examining a patient's x-rays. If I see anything, anything which could, even in a MacGyver-esque way, be used in a IED, I call for ETD and bag check. And surprisingly, I'd guess that this is no more than 1% on a busy day.

I think the scariest thing we take from this thread is that Spiff has revealed he likes to play with explosives ;)

I think the scariest thing we take from this thread is that Spiff has revealed he likes to play with explosives ;)

Legal fireworks. :p

Legal fireworks. :p

220...221...whatever it takes :D

I know pyrotechnics people alarm all the time. They tell me that they explain themselves before the are screened and it runs smoothly.

Whatever the hell that means. :rolleyes:

I think the scariest thing we take from this thread is that Spiff has revealed he likes to play with explosives ;)

And that surprises you? :D

If anyone knows much about the larger fireworks, the projectile that hit me was almost one inch by half an inch. It's a compressed powder, chalky in nature. I don't know much about the makeup of fireworks, but I'm going to guess a gunpowder or TNT of some type.

ETDs look for the high energy nitro bonds in high energy commercial explosives, like the nitro in trinitrotoluene, TNT.

Home use and even giant commercial fireworks are made from black powder, main ingredient the salt potassium nitrate. A low energy nitro compound which is less likely to be detected by the ETD.

The dark smudge is either burned or unburned charcoal, the ingredient that makes black powder, well, black.

The good news for you is that potassium nitrate is one of the most water soluble compounds on earth. One or two passes through the washing machine and there cannot be any left on your shirt to alarm. The black smudge, however, is another problem, as charcoal is not water soluble and even detergent will not do much to it get it off the shirt.

As for "I know pyrotechnics people alarm all the time. They tell me that they explain themselves before the are screened and it runs smoothly." This makes me feel real safe. Does this mean all a terrorist has to do is tell the truth "Good morning TSA, I work with explosives for a living, don't worry if I alarm" and they walk through?

I have an old, used missile engine casing around here. Perhaps I should take it on my next flight and see if it alarms or not. :) (non-metallic casing)

My typical laptop carry-on bag has contained recently fired handguns and also spent shell casings, and I've handled the bag after handing both and also having handled smokeless poweder, etc.

The bag, though swabbed several times, has never set off the ETD, fortunately. The moral of this story is that I doubt the fireworks device itself will have had much of a chance to really contaminate your clothes in a way that will alarm ETD.

These days, though, I do try to take better care of my current laptop bag to avoid the possibility of contaiminating it with explosives residue. I suspect a good wash or two separately from other clothing will do the trick. Cold or warm water, and I'd air dry it (particularly if you used alcohol or another flammable solvent on it at any point to try to remove the stain).

Soak the affected area with Coca-Cola. I've used that on my laundry many times, as it will remove most anything. And to think some of us pour this sugary, acidic beverage into our bodies.

I would like to thank everyone for the feedback, it is much appreciated.

This has actually been an interesting thread and it's great to hear the feedback everyone has had to offer.

In addition to items that will remove stains, I've learned how ETD machines are cleaned, that I'm unlikely to have an ETD issue (and more of an issue removing the stain), and that Spiff play's with legal fireworks (i.e. sparklers, snakes, and those small things that jump on the ground are the legal ones here :cool: ).

The fireworks display I saw was incredible (lets just say these probably were not legal fireworks) and even if the stain doesn't come out, it was a fantastic display. It's nice having a park (with a big open area) behind my house so that I can view the fireworks that others paid for :D It didn't make my day getting nailed by a chunk of fireworks debris, but ..it happens.

I am doing laundry tonight, so I'll find out if the stain comes out - and it sounds like I can rest assured it won't be setting off an ETD or Puff Portal. ;)

As said before, regular washing will get the water soluable nitrates out fine.

As for the fine particulate charcoal, using a stream of high pressure air from behind the marking (so if the outside of the shirt has the marking, shoot the air from the inside of the shirt out), so as to push the fine particulates out via the shortest distance (as per the old adage, how far can you walk into a forest? Halfway, as past that you are walking out of it) and not pushing it deeper into the weave of the fabric.

Essentially noone uses TNT anymore for anything (and it never was for fireworks nor commercial blasting) because it has a pretty high vapor pressure and so it contaminates everything it gets near to. Magazines that were used to store TNT cannot be used for anything else because the residual TNT will contaminate it. The only way to get rid of that is by "thermal decomposition" -- burning.

Steve