i try to read all that is posted on Flyertalk so that i don't remain a newbie forever. i am currently a Gold on USair and i got upgraded (thanks USair again for the free booze) and i was sitting next to a young-ish CP. he was on his mobile before taxiing and being loud and such (not drunk mind you, just overly lound). i put on my noise-dampening headphones and didn't pay him any mind.

but as we were coming down on landing (after the request to put all electronics away), he pulls out his Trio and starts playing with it. Now, it doesn't bother me the least bit if someone is listening to their Ipod or such as we land, but this is a mobile communication device. and he is flashing it around like he doesn't care. so i lean over and ask him nicely if he could put the trio away b/c phones on planes make me a little sketchy. he gets all puffy and shows me the phone and says 'the phone part is off'. i say to him, number one, all electronics should be stored, and number 2, i don't care if the phone part is off, it is quite easy to turn it on, and number 3, no phone systems should be used during the entire flight. so this guy gets pissy with me b/c i ask him to turn off his mobile phone. was i in the wrong? and if so, how should i have handled this? i didn't want to get the guy in trouble by summoning the FA, i just was feeling sketchy that he was playing around with a mobile device as we approached home (which, btw, was DCA)...

thanks for any help on how this should be handled...

i try to read all that is posted on Flyertalk so that i don't remain a newbie forever. i am currently a Gold on USair and i got upgraded (thanks USair again for the free booze) and i was sitting next to a young-ish CP. he was on his mobile before taxiing and being loud and such (not drunk mind you, just overly lound). i put on my noise-dampening headphones and didn't pay him any mind.

but as we were coming down on landing (after the request to put all electronics away), he pulls out his Trio and starts playing with it. Now, it doesn't bother me the least bit if someone is listening to their Ipod or such as we land, but this is a mobile communication device. and he is flashing it around like he doesn't care. so i lean over and ask him nicely if he could put the trio away b/c phones on planes make me a little sketchy. he gets all puffy and shows me the phone and says 'the phone part is off'. i say to him, number one, all electronics should be stored, and number 2, i don't care if the phone part is off, it is quite easy to turn it on, and number 3, no phone systems should be used during the entire flight. so this guy gets pissy with me b/c i ask him to turn off his mobile phone. was i in the wrong? and if so, how should i have handled this? i didn't want to get the guy in trouble by summoning the FA, i just was feeling sketchy that he was playing around with a mobile device as we approached home (which, btw, was DCA)...

thanks for any help on how this should be handled...

I have a Treo and consider it half phone and half pc. If the mobile part is off it is not a communication device. However, since it is approach/descent/landing the electronic devices rule applies to everything and all electronic. You should have got an F/A involved if he didn't turn it off. Just because he is CP, doesn't mean diddly squat when it comes to FAA rules... It was good of you to intervene, not too many people who care these days!

This happened to me on Friday. The guy next to me turned on his blackberry and began using it about 5 minutes from touchdown. The dude was also about 6'6" 250 and could probably hold my head in the palm of his hand so I remained mute.

i try to read all that is posted on Flyertalk so that i don't remain a newbie forever. i am currently a Gold on USair and i got upgraded (thanks USair again for the free booze) and i was sitting next to a young-ish CP. he was on his mobile before taxiing and being loud and such (not drunk mind you, just overly lound). i put on my noise-dampening headphones and didn't pay him any mind.

but as we were coming down on landing (after the request to put all electronics away), he pulls out his Trio and starts playing with it. Now, it doesn't bother me the least bit if someone is listening to their Ipod or such as we land, but this is a mobile communication device. and he is flashing it around like he doesn't care. so i lean over and ask him nicely if he could put the trio away b/c phones on planes make me a little sketchy. he gets all puffy and shows me the phone and says 'the phone part is off'. i say to him, number one, all electronics should be stored, and number 2, i don't care if the phone part is off, it is quite easy to turn it on, and number 3, no phone systems should be used during the entire flight. so this guy gets pissy with me b/c i ask him to turn off his mobile phone. was i in the wrong? and if so, how should i have handled this? i didn't want to get the guy in trouble by summoning the FA, i just was feeling sketchy that he was playing around with a mobile device as we approached home (which, btw, was DCA)...

thanks for any help on how this should be handled...


I also have a phone that is pda/phone. When I put it in flight mode, the phone is off, the internet doesn't work, etc etc making it basically the same as a handheld electronic solitaire game or iPod. I have pulled it out during take off and landing to check the time since I often don't wear a watch.

If it doesn't bother you that someone listens to their iPod, then why does this bother you? It can't transmit any data, phone calls, internet or otherwise, making it basically the same as an iPod.

I understand the feelings when someone has a cell phone out during take off and landing, I don't like it either. (I once watched a lady talk on hers while we were taking off!) But if you're ok with an iPod, then phones in flight mode should be ok too. If anything, an iPod might be more dangerous because the person might not be able to hear emergency instructions.

I'm just saying there shouldn't be this weird in between, either be completely against any electronics during designated times, or electronics that aren't currently transmitting data are ok as well as iPods.

I have seen FAs telling passengers to take of their iPods as well as Bose noise reduction devices. Guess all electronics off means ALL off. FA's also say that they must be stowed away during TO & landing. How hard is that to understand.

I have seen FAs telling passengers to take of their iPods as well as Bose noise reduction devices. Guess all electronics off means ALL off. FA's also say that they must be stowed away during TO & landing. How hard is that to understand.

I agree. My point was it's not fair to be ok with one electronic device and not the other when it's not transmitting data.

My problem is the PDA part of my phone doesn't turn off...there's literally not an on/off switch on the device which means I have to take out the battery when a F/A (or someone sitting next to me) doesn't believe me the phone part is off...which means I've lost several batteries.

So if you're ever on a plane and see an extremely large phone battery rolling around the floor, it's probably mine :)

in one phrase.M.Y.O.B.

You were fine in your request that he should turn it off when all electronic devices were requested off at the time.

You would not be right if you asked him to turn it off though when electronic devices were permitted. Most of these Windows Mobile, Palm, or Blackberry devices have an "airplane mode" whereby the device is completely offline and the "radio" part is shut off. As long as it was in the mode with the radio off he is fine using the device when permitted during the flight.

Sean

According to the FAA - its gotta be off. Now, consider that some people's digital watches can do more than cell phones and take the request with a grain of salt. I interpret it to mean the phone must be off.

However, I fly a lot both private and commercial and no one has ever asked anyone to shut off devices on a private plane. I watch my boss send and receive BlackBerry emails and make calls while landing in Scottsdale; I don't consider it to be a huge issue.

I respect the rule, but don't expect it to stay in place much longer.

in one phrase.M.Y.O.B.

Guess you were the person the OP was referring to?

Guess you were the person the OP was referring to?

You beat me to it!

You were fine in your request that he should turn it off when all electronic devices were requested off at the time.

You would not be right if you asked him to turn it off though when electronic devices were permitted. Most of these Windows Mobile, Palm, or Blackberry devices have an "airplane mode" whereby the device is completely offline and the "radio" part is shut off. As long as it was in the mode with the radio off he is fine using the device when permitted during the flight.

Sean

Exactly.

After closing the door, ALL electronic equipment (including iPods, cellphones, laptops, Blackberries and even noise-cancelling headphones) are supposed to be turned OFF (not silent, not standby, not airplane mode).

Once the plane gets to 10K, when you can use ipods, laptops, you can also use blackberries, treos, etc., etc. as long as their transmit function is turned off.

At least that's what the FAA and FCC stipulate for commercial flights; an airline can choose to be less permissive than that.

Mind you, I think much of this is overkill, but those are the rules du jour.

If the smarmy CP was in violation, I would simply have pointed this out quietly to the FA.

Landing means all tronics go off, period. Why, cuz you might die.

Would be interesting to see when the last time the rules for Electronic devices was updated.

I would venture 1995.

Like stated before - Blackberry's and Treo's don't have a true off switch and I highly doubt that they interfere whatsoever with flight operations when the phone part is off.

Like stated before - Blackberry's and Treo's don't have a true off switch


Not so, at least for the Pearl; hold the red phone button down for 2 or 3 seconds.


and I highly doubt that they interfere whatsoever with flight operations when the phone part is off.

Agreed; I question whether they truly interfere when in the on position.

If this were really a problem, do you think it would be left up to the travelling public's discretion to comply?

in one phrase.M.Y.O.B.

What does "M.Y.O.B" mean? I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means...

What does "M.Y.O.B" mean? I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means...

If you think "Mind Your Own Business" you are right.

If you think "Mind Your Own Business" you are right.

Really?!? I always thought it meant Muster Your Own Booze! :D

Really?!? I always thought it meant Muster Your Own Booze! :D

you're right: Mix Your Own (Bloody) Mary

you're right: Mix Your Own (Bloody) Mary

Oh we could have loads of fun with this one, but unfortunately all of the rest of mine would violate the FT rules...... ;)

I'm sure this will probably result in a flame or two, but I've got my asbestos suit on... ;)

I once had a woman sitting next to me who was chatting away on the phone well after the door closed. FA told her repeatedly to turn off the phone. She just dismissed the FA with a hand wave each time. She also had her laptop running at the same time, and just closed it partially during our takeoff. As soon as we were 30 seconds out, she opened it right up and was at it again. It was never turned off during takeoff.

We didn't crash, but thanks for thinking of my safety, Ms-I-know-what-impacts-flight-electronics-systems. I'm glad you decided that you were in a position to make life decisions for me.

While I agree that the electronics rule may be outdated and some portable electronics may or may not interfere with the plane's electronic system, I don't think it was her right to just disregard the rule, because you don't think it's an issue. If it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt that this is a non-issue, then the rules need to be changed. But, it's not up to you to determine whether or not to put me at risk. I would imagine that the rule was created not on a whim, but because there existed some data that suggested this was a concern. I don't need to see that data, but please don't discount it and violate FAA policy when I'm on the plane.

I'm sure this will probably result in a flame or two, but I've got my asbestos suit on... ;)

I once had a woman sitting next to me who was chatting away on the phone well after the door closed. FA told her repeatedly to turn off the phone. She just dismissed the FA with a hand wave each time. She also had her laptop running at the same time, and just closed it partially during our takeoff. As soon as we were 30 seconds out, she opened it right up and was at it again. It was never turned off during takeoff.

We didn't crash, but thanks for thinking of my safety, Ms-I-know-what-impacts-flight-electronics-systems. I'm glad you decided that you were in a position to make life decisions for me.

While I agree that the electronics rule may be outdated and some portable electronics may or may not interfere with the plane's electronic system, I don't think it was her right to just disregard the rule, because you don't think it's an issue. If it can be proven without a shadow of a doubt that this is a non-issue, then the rules need to be changed. But, it's not up to you to determine whether or not to put me at risk. I would imagine that the rule was created not on a whim, but because there existed some data that suggested this was a concern. I don't need to see that data, but please don't discount it and violate FAA policy when I'm on the plane.

Agreed. I completely-100% second that!

Hey guys, technically US Airways requires cell phones to be turned off even WITH the airplane mode. Let me explain. For whatever reason, the company hasn't changed the policy as technology has changed and as we know the airplane mode was added to phones. This goes thru the FAA and either the company doesn't want to change the policy or they are just clueless. I venture to say the second is the case.

SWA will make an announcement to place the cell phone in airplane mode. As we haven't gotten a new announcement book with the change, we can only assume the policy is the same. For those of us that are tech saavy and up to date, we ask if you have airplane mode and ask you to place it in that mode.
BUT, don't be shocked if you are told you still have to turn it off.

For those FAs that want to hammer home the point of turning off PDAs that have embedded but turned off phones, I say that PAX should start demanding a mandatory pre-board drink policy in F. Let's see how long that policy is followed in the east. :D

I think that for take-off and landing, the FAA specifies that ALL equipment must be off, including PDAs. But, once airborne and safe to use, you can re-activate your PDA sans phone capabilities. A bit complicated and a hassle, but I think that technically, that's the reasoning.

Good For You!!!

I'm sure this will probably result in a flame or two, but I've got my asbestos suit on

Well being in the environmental business I can tell you if you wear an asbestos suit during a fire, you won't last long :D

Like stated before - Blackberry's and Treo's don't have a true off switch and I highly doubt that they interfere whatsoever with flight operations when the phone part is off.

My BB 7130e has an On/Off button. It's right on the top edge of the device.

I spent a summer in college as a lifeguard at a water park near Allentown, PA. Of the many rules we had to enforce, and probably the most challenging was the height requirement for the 'adult' rides. The minimum height for many water slides was 48". I'm certain that a child who was 47-1/2" could be just as capable of surviving the ride (maybe more so) than one who was 48", but the rules were the rules. We had many upset parents who had sometimes waited in line for an hour or more, in the heat/humidity, only to be told that their child couldn't ride. The park management always stood by the lifeguards, as safety was the primary concern. If I had let a child go on a slide who was 47" tall and something had happened, I'd bet those same parents would have sued claiming the kid shouldn't have been allowed on the ride to begin with.

So it is with an airline. The primary concern with the FA's is passenger safety. If the FA tells me to shut down my crackberry (regardless of if there is a power button), I shut it off, popping out the battery if need be. If they tell me to take my seat, even if I really need to use the bathroom, I take my seat. In my years of flying, I can only remember 1 instance of a plane returning to the gate to deplane a PAX. It was NW DTW-PHX, and the PAX had gotten sick shortly after the plane pushed back. I wasn't happy about the delay, but if I was sitting next to them I wouldn't have been happy for the flight.

When I've seen a nearby PAX using a device when they shouldn't be, I discreetly get the FA's attention when they walk by, and let them take action from there.

If the FA tells me to shut down my crackberry (regardless of if there is a power button), I shut it off, popping out the battery if need be......When I've seen a nearby PAX using a device when they shouldn't be, I discreetly get the FA's attention when they walk by, and let them take action from there.

Oh sheez! :rolleyes: The FAA doesn't tell you to shut off your device, it says you need to shut off the phone function. This entire subject has the smack of BrownShirts goose stepping across Europe. The rules are clear: "all electronic devices off when the captain says off, all electronic device without radio can be used once the captain says OK."

I have run WiFi scans on several flights over the past year; there are inevitably 4-8 laptops running WiFi. And a couple times as I walked to the back loo using my Treo on Bluetooth Discover mode, I have found 2-3 bluetooth devices transmitting each time I have tried it out. Should I begin approaching FAs mid-flight and asking for those PAX to be dressed down?

Common sense says that you don't turn on your cell phone during the flight. Like it or not, agree with it or not, that's the FAA rule. I have been politely asked 4-8 times over the past 3 years on AA and US if I have the phone function off and that's entirely appropriate. I smile, turn the Treo toward them and point to the "Phone Off" message and reply "yep, and thanks for checking!"

But if the day comes when an FA gives me crap about shutting my Treo off all the way, I will stand up with my WiFi scanner (http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?c=212&s=1059&ID=37639&P=F) in hand and point out the many other devices that are transmitting WiFi and ask the FA to shut them all off or I will report them to the FAA by name and cc in their HQ on my report.

Any FA that wants to be a BrownShirt about this deserves to be hauled over the coals. Good citizens that demonstrate that they have the phone off shouldn't be punished for the FA's ignorance. It's all (un)common sense people. Any idiot yakking on a mobile phone when they shouldn't be deserves a slap upside the head and a dressing down. But don't be an ignorant FA and get nasty with folks that know what they are doing. Ask politely and if you like, even ask to see the off screen. Don't change the color of US FA uniform's to National Socialist Workers' Party brown.

The electronics restrictions are in place, not because they interfere with electronics on the plane, but because they serve as a distraction.

Taxi/Takeoff and Landing are the most dangerous times of the flight and being distracted by a electronic device means less response time in the event of an emergency. They'd like to restrict reading material as well but they have a harder time explaining that since most people don't want to hear about emergency situations or won't buy the explaination.

Older 3-watt cell phones had the potential of causing communication interferance with on-board systems, the newer ones do not. The restriction on takeoff is, again, due to it being a huge distraction and in the event of an emergency, they want your attention.

The FAA considered lifting the restriction in flight but the idea of the guy sitting next to me yacking on his cell phone the entire time from coast to coast doesn't appeal to me, so it is now more of a courtesy to others on board than anything else.

It will have to remain a FAA regulation because if it doesn't then, due to competition, airlines will adopt different policies that will cause confusion and difficult situations and arguments with crew members. This problem would occur if the lapchild restrictions were lifted as well.

Back to the OP - I would've pointed out the passenger to a member of the crew and allowed them to deal with it rather than taking matters into your own hands. If they argue with a FA, then it becomes a FAA regulation issue and they'd have the potential of having to explain themselves to the FAA or FBI.

To me, it is just like the fact that F pax get to use the restroom when the fasten seatbelt sign is on.

If you don't like it.....SIT IN COACH! Don't ruin it because you get wacky about electronics.

uh...phillyflier40, not to start a flame or anything, but what in the world are you talking about? what does sitting in coach have to do with using a mobile phone during landing? the reason i originally wrote this post was to find out what the general concensus on what I should have done when a guy was using his Treo on landing...nothing, say something nicely to him asking him to turn it off (which is what i chose) or contact the FA. i don't think i am going to choose to sit in coach to avoid this situation if it might happen in the future...

and to all that have posted, thanks for your input. i have done some research on my own, and it seems that other than during take-off and landing, the use of phones in 'flight-mode' is entirely up to the airline. and from what i can tell, USair allows 'flight-mode' phone operation above 10k ft.

again, i was just a little sketched out by a guy using a mobile telelphone device during landing at DCA. i was not trying to be an @ss to the guy, i just wanted to make it home to my GF, friends and family in one piece. i don't think i was doing anything wrong by asking him to put it away since for as long as i can remember flying, you weren't allowed to use electronics during TO/L and he was the one breaking the rules.

and from what i can tell, USair allows 'flight-mode' phone operation above 10k ft.


If that's the case they need to tell us F/A's. The latest announcement books (May, 2007) has nothing to indicate the change or assumption.

If that's the case they need to tell us F/A's.

I think you may have done what I did - misread the statement about "flight mode" the first time through. In fact, I was going to reply as you did until I caught my mistake. "Flight mode" means the phone function is off, not on - making it just another approved electronic device.

Jim

uh...phillyflier40, not to start a flame or anything, but what in the world are you talking about? what does sitting in coach have to do with using a mobile phone during landing? the reason i originally wrote this post was to find out what the general concensus on what I should have done when a guy was using his Treo on landing...nothing, say something nicely to him asking him to turn it off (which is what i chose) or contact the FA. i don't think i am going to choose to sit in coach to avoid this situation if it might happen in the future...

and to all that have posted, thanks for your input. i have done some research on my own, and it seems that other than during take-off and landing, the use of phones in 'flight-mode' is entirely up to the airline. and from what i can tell, USair allows 'flight-mode' phone operation above 10k ft.

again, i was just a little sketched out by a guy using a mobile telelphone device during landing at DCA. i was not trying to be an @ss to the guy, i just wanted to make it home to my GF, friends and family in one piece. i don't think i was doing anything wrong by asking him to put it away since for as long as i can remember flying, you weren't allowed to use electronics during TO/L and he was the one breaking the rules.

You've done everything in your power to stop the guy... I wish there more of you type of passengers flying on planes.

When I've seen a nearby PAX using a device when they shouldn't be, I discreetly get the FA's attention when they walk by, and let them take action from there.

To what end? You know that there are probably 3 other people on the plane who you could not rat on--does it really make you feel safer? If so, I have a bridge for sale.....

OP....just trying to tell you that F pax get some additional leeway on a few issues....ie. restroom w/seatbelt sign on, electronics on at times when they shouldn't be, no seatbelt for comfort, etc...etc...if you don't like it, ride w/the back of the pack!

I think you may have done what I did - misread the statement about "flight mode" the first time through. In fact, I was going to reply as you did until I caught my mistake. "Flight mode" means the phone function is off, not on - making it just another approved electronic device.

Jim

Thanks, Jim. Crews are very literal when it comes to FAR's and with this the company needs to spell it out ...literally. Frankly, it's not a big issue to me as I tell people things once or twice and then inform the other f/a's. If any incident happens, I now have witnesses.

The wonderful thing about we old experienced f/a's? MANY of us choose our battles more carefully and refuse make a big deal out of the smallest thing.

My two cents:
What the OP witnessed is just another example of the extreme selfishness and narcissism of much of the travelling public that you see nowadays (and I dare say, on this board at times). Why should the rules apply to someone as smart and important as me? It is the same attitude you see when people board airplanes with every manner of absurdly oversize luggage, when people walking down the aisle during boarding smack everyone they pass in the head with their bag, the people who jump out of their seat when the plane pulls up to the gate and try to shove their way past you to get to the front, etc etc etc ad nauseum. My advice: Don't waste your breath trying to change the behavior of rude people. Nothing you say can overcome a lifetime of bad character. But don't let them change you either, resolve to be a good seatmate. I hope to see you on one of my upcoming flights! ;)

The kid in front of me in F watched a portable DVD player while landing at ORD (HP 757 from LAS). Mind you the kid was high school age. His father across the aisle (in an undershirt nonetheless) slept the entire way from LAS with his sneakered foot in the aisle snoring.

Strangely, these things don't happen on AA in F.

The kid in front of me in F watched a portable DVD player while landing at ORD (HP 757 from LAS). Mind you the kid was high school age. His father across the aisle (in an undershirt nonetheless) slept the entire way from LAS with his sneakered foot in the aisle snoring.

Strangely, these things don't happen on AA in F.

Was this you King?

So let's cut to the chase...what kind of compensation should I get if I am on a flight where somewhere on board, somewhere is undoubtably using an unapproved device...and should I request a class "bonus" to said compensation if the offender is in F and I'm in Y, or vice verse? :rolleyes:

So let's cut to the chase...what kind of compensation should I get if I am on a flight where somewhere on board, somewhere is undoubtably using an unapproved device...and should I request a class "bonus" to said compensation if the offender is in F and I'm in Y, or vice verse? :rolleyes:

You guys are being silly now. Whether coach or first, Just turn the crap off when told. Geez, if you guys are THAT important, may I suggest a private jet or better yet, get your pilots license and buy your own jet.

I think it is amazing that this thread is this long! :p

I follow the rules myself, but I do not plan to intervene if someone is not. This would be the crew's job to enforce (or not!)

From today's WSJ online:

Would you welcome cellphone service on planes?
Yes 312 votes (15%) Jerks! :mad:
No 1712 votes (85%) ^
Total Votes : 2024

And....
"Airbus, a European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. unit, said the European Aviation Safety Agency backed its global system for mobile communications, or GSM, service. Passengers will be able to make and receive calls and send and receive email and text messages, the plane maker said."

Doug Parker's comments: "We think that this is an excellent way to gain additional profit. We'll get $5 pax for use of their mobile while angering 85% of our business FF which will chase them off to a competitor where they can whine and I don't have to hear it." :D

I do not mind if we were allowed to use QUIET mobile functions, but could you just imagine hundreds of conversations going on around you? :td:

I do not mind if we were allowed to use QUIET mobile functions, but could you just imagine hundreds of conversations going on around you? :td:

How about we turn lemons into lemonade? Buy Bose stock now.