Hi, I was lucky enough to get to go to Italy for a couple of weeks back in the fall and had a really great time while I was there. If you haven't gone I would highly recommend going to Venice, Rome and Florence.

However, I was confused about something I saw in Venice, and I'm hoping that someone who reads this might be able to fill me in...

While walking along the "streets" of Venice I frequently saw modestly dressed older women, usually near bridges or busy streets, who were kneeling or lying on the street face down holding a small card with a picture of what appeared to be a saint or perhaps Jesus? I got the impression that they were possibly praying, but I wasn't sure. Additionally, they had a small cup near them for collecting money.

Where I'm confused is on the purpose of their begging. I couldn't decide if these women were begging for money simply because they were poor and needed money or if their was a religious basis for the begging. Perhaps they were a member of some religious order or had taken a vow of poverty or something? Anyone have an idea about what was going on?

Thanks for your help.

This is very, very common in a lot of European cities. Prague and Rome spring to mind immediately with forehead-on-the-sidewalk-saint-nearby style of begging.

They are not likely to be members of religious orders. Just as some beggars use animals to build sympathy, others use piety.

No harm, no foul, in my opinion. Drop some coins or not, they don't seem to harrass anyone either way. Apparently, it's a living.

This is very, very common in a lot of European cities. Prague and Rome spring to mind immediately with forehead-on-the-sidewalk-saint-nearby style of begging.

They are not likely to be members of religious orders. Just as some beggars use animals to build sympathy, others use piety.

No harm, no foul, in my opinion. Drop some coins or not, they don't seem to harrass anyone either way. Apparently, it's a living.

Agree with this assessment.

Thanks to both of you for the reply.

My curiosity was peaked because their actions were very different from what I've generally experienced in North America. I think I was thrown off a bit because they weren't aggressive in their begging. In fact none of them ever directly asked me for money. It was actually quite a nice change (sorry) from the way that begging works here, though I was hit up for money on one of the trains I took and at the train stations.

Thanks to both of you for the reply.

My curiosity was peaked because their actions were very different from what I've generally experienced in North America. I think I was thrown off a bit because they weren't aggressive in their begging. In fact none of them ever directly asked me for money. It was actually quite a nice change (sorry) from the way that begging works here, though I was hit up for money on one of the trains I took and at the train stations.

the venice police do not take kindly to begging, or to street hucksters. they leave the passive religion beggars alone.

The hucksters come out after the police go home(around noon). every now and then, you will see a police take his hat off, and sneak up on a huckster. otherwise, they grab their stuff and run.

the merchants push the police to clear the street huckster out of the city.

Typically these women are Roma Gypsies that want to show their "piety"--no joke...They're probably the least likely to be bothered by the police and you see them all over Italy.

Agree with other posters. It's something I grew up with in Spain and its been around for a long, long time. In the same way that many of these people will settle themselves near churches around the time that mass is ending, there are plenty of accounts in the bible about people begging near synagogues. The religious angle seems to work on my (Spanish) grandmother, so they're obviously onto something.

The only members of a religious order you'd be likely to see on the streets of Southern Europe are the Senagalese traders who sell bags, sunglasses, and other knick knacks. I read an interesting article in The Economist recently which instilled a new found sense of respect for the Mourides.

There's a resume of the article here:
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/2739

I find the one's that hold the doors open for you at the churches (though not affiliated with the church - just looking for a hand out for their "hospitality") to be a bit aggressive. In Rome, one tried to slam the door on me when I refused to pay his entrance fee !

There is little aggressive panhandling in Europe, to the extent it exists at all.

Americans are just more entrepreneurial, and they also have the 1st Amendment. There are downsides to every society.

Agree with other posters. It's something I grew up with in Spain and its been around for a long, long time. In the same way that many of these people will settle themselves near churches around the time that mass is ending, there are plenty of accounts in the bible about people begging near synagogues. The religious angle seems to work on my (Spanish) grandmother, so they're obviously onto something.

The only members of a religious order you'd be likely to see on the streets of Southern Europe are the Senagalese traders who sell bags, sunglasses, and other knick knacks. I read an interesting article in The Economist recently which instilled a new found sense of respect for the Mourides.

There's a resume of the article here:
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/2739

Thanks for the link, the article was pretty interesting. For those who get the Economist or would like to search for the full article, it is titled "Europe's Senegal Connection" and was published in the Dec. 23, 2006 edition.

I had noticed the guys selling Prada handbags but it was interesting to hear about what was going on behind the scenes.