I'm trying to decide between renting a car and taking trains for my week in Germany, Belgium, and Holland. If I do go with the car option, do I need to purchase additional insurance or is my full coverage USA policy good enough?

Only your insurance agent knows for sure. IMHO renting a car really only makes sense if either travelling with a party of several people, or travelling to rural areas where taking public transit isn't practical.

A car can almost be a liability in Europe. Between exorbidant hotel parking rates, other parking rates, more expensive fuel, frequent staus on the Autobahns, it almost makes more sense to train it wherever possible in Europe. But, it is more flexible to have a car.

Your credit card may automatically provide coverage. Check with them first.

I do see that a car might be a bad idea, but I plan to move to a new city about every other day, so I thought a car might be easier. But if the cost is too high, I will forget it. (I'm still calculating out the costs)

I have checked with my car insurance company and was told that they do not cover international rentals, so I would need some other insurance. I'll check with my Amex card, but I don't think they provide primary coverage for a rental vehicle. If forced to get the rental company insurance, it will definitely make the car idea too expensive.

I have checked with my car insurance company and was told that they do not cover international rentals, so I would need some other insurance. I'll check with my Amex card, but I don't think they provide primary coverage for a rental vehicle.


I believe that makes Amex (as the possible secondary if your card offers the feature) first in line. Amex, MC & Visa all like to have lots of exclusions (if the rental if for business use, expensive car class, several countries) so get the full details before you rely on CC coverage.

Virtually all cars rented in Germany include Vollkaskoversicherung (LDW) with a deductible (with Sixt it usually is €750). The insurance requirements are much more strict than they are in the US, and the coverage is far greater. I've never purchased seperate insurance, but you can do this to lower your deductible. But this would probably be covered by your Amex.

Virtually all cars rented in Germany include Vollkaskoversicherung (LDW) with a deductible (with Sixt it usually is €750). The insurance requirements are much more strict than they are in the US, and the coverage is far greater. I've never purchased seperate insurance, but you can do this to lower your deductible. But this would probably be covered by your Amex.

Are you saying that all German rental cars come with insurance included in the rental price that is sufficient to cover accidents, theft, etc? If so, then my Amex would be secondary and cover any deductible, right?

Are you saying that all German rental cars come with insurance included in the rental price that is sufficient to cover accidents, theft, etc? If so, then my Amex would be secondary and cover any deductible, right?

This is how prices are quoted if you select Germany as your country of residence. It is possible that Americans get quoted a lower base price, but that insurance is extra.

The Volkswagen quoted to me just a minute ago did include LDW (including theft, accidents, etc.) with an €950 deductible, which could be reduced to €350 for €9.50 per day, and to €0 for €17.50 per day. I would think that your Amex would cover this deductible if you declined the extra coverage.

This is how prices are quoted if you select Germany as your country of residence. It is possible that Americans get quoted a lower base price, but that insurance is extra.

The Volkswagen quoted to me just a minute ago did include LDW (including theft, accidents, etc.) with an €950 deductible, which could be reduced to €350 for €9.50 per day, and to €0 for €17.50 per day. I would think that your Amex would cover this deductible if you declined the extra coverage.

As I understand it, European car rentals include pretty comprehensive liability insurance. It is mandatory and included in the quoted price. That doesn't mean that the rental company won't try to sell you a lot of worthless add-ons.

I usually end up renting through an agent, which, at least for France, is cheaper and provides additional benefits. I just used http://www.rentalcargroup.com/ to rent a car in the South of France, and, although I didn't use any of it, their rental (which ended up being via National/Alamo) included a variety of extra insurance and was lots cheaper than renting directly from the National or Hertz, etc.

It is prudent to reserve in advance. Walk up rates in Europe are way out of line.

That doesn't mean that the rental company won't try to sell you a lot of worthless add-ons.

It's up to you to decide whether the add-ons are worthwile. If a CC covers the deductible, then they are most certainly worthless.

Thank-you for the info. I am going to email the local Thrifty branch where I have the reservation and get details more on the insurance.

In the mean time, can anyone help me interpret the following terms at the bottom of my reservation:

Optional PDW- cost between EUR 21.00-EUR 30.00/day reduces renters financial responsibility for the Thrifty vehicle between EUR 550.00-EUR 1050.00 Optional Theft Protection- cost EUR 3.00/day.

** Third Party Liability included in rental rates. ** Optional PAI- cost EUR 3.90/day.

* Gold and Platinum MasterCard Insurance coverage is ACCEPTED *


PDW? Is this the liability insurance that we were discussing in the prior posts above (LDW)? If so, this sounds like it isn't included?

Third Party Liability? What exactly is this?

PAI? What is this?

I just made a reservation at Sixt (without any insurance). I have a US-based Diners Club card (with Mastercard logo)...Diners provides PRIMARY insurance coverage if you decline the LDW...

I called Diners Club insurance services to confirm this...

Now my bigger issue is, do I HAVE to get Winter Tires for 16 euros a day?

- HF

As to Winter Tires.

Since the news is full of stories about how the Alps are suffering badly from lack of snow, killing the ski season, I would guess that the lowlands in Germany are without snow. So, who needs snow tires. And, why aren't they on the car already, if needed. Just another car rental scam, it sounds like.

Thanks for all the help.

I've come to the following conclusions based on all of my emails, calls and other research:

> My Thrifty rental car will come with liability insurance included
> My Amex card will provide CDW/LDW (damage to the vehicle)and will be the primary coverage since I have no other insurance outside of the US.
> I can take the rental car outside of Germany to Belgium and Holland so long as I disclose this at the time of rental and get a intermediate or smaller car (more expensive ones aren't allowed out of Germany)
> So my 170 Euro rate for a full week would be my cost, plus of course gas, parking, and maybe tolls. This would probably be more than the cost of train tickets and taxis for 2 people visiting 3 countries in a week, but not that much more.

So after all this, I am still trying to decide between the car and the train. I am leaning towards the car though...

RE: Thrifty rental in Germany. I recently had a small accident driving a Thrifty rental car in Germany. My AMEX CC card coverage did pay for the major part of the repairs. However, Thrifty charged me for "depreciation"- 10% of the repair cost (reduction of car value due to the accident and subsequent repairs). This was not covered by insurance. Thrifty also charged for "appraisal" ($50) and "documentation"($30) costs which were also not covered by the AMEX CC insurance. Nor was "loss of use" (3 days rental charge). I my case the damage was not great, so these costs were not unreasonable, but if the 10% depreciation charge were applied to major damage, one could have a significant out of pocket expense. I got a detailed police report. If you don't get a police report... good luck getting any insurance payment.

IMHO many of the Thrifty charges are just BS charges. If it were me, I would be disputing them with my credit card company. And, I understand, that Amex or the other credit card companies (who are very experienced about these things) can either make them go away, or they will pickup the tab, if you push a little.

"Repairing " things that don't need to be fixed and charging for accident charges which come from the air appear to be major profit centers for car rental companies, especially in Europe.

I recently had a small accident driving a Thrifty rental car in Germany. German rental agents can find "damage" on return that the folks from CSI would be hard pressed to locate. Make certain you inspect the car from top to bottom and get every scratch documented before driving off.

With regard to liability insurance - many rental companies in many countries provide (at most) the bare minimum required by law - which usually isn't a lot (like $10,000 or $25,000 - something like that). I doubt you will find liability insurance in any "credit card" coverage.

If you wouldn't be comfortable driving with minimum coverage at home - then you shouldn't be comfortable driving with it abroad. Even if you are comfortable (i.e., you don't have any assets) - laws in various countries regarding bankruptcies - wage garnishment - etc. - may vary a lot.

Keep in mind that although recoveries for personal injuries and deaths may be lower in some parts of the world than others - $25,000 probably won't even cover a broken leg in western Europe. Moreover - I have no idea whether policies issued in western Europe cover defense costs.

Then there is the flip side - if you are injured in an accident. Do the policies provide uninsured motorist coverage if the driver who injures you doesn't have adequate insurance? Does your own auto policy cover you? Does your medical insurance policy cover you for injuries sustained while abroad?

When we used to drive in western Europe - we would buy $100,000 worth of liability insurance/uninsured motorist coverage from AIG (they sold it by the month). Under the terms of our umbrella policy - if we had $100,000 in primary coverage - we were covered by our umbrella anywhere in the world. Your mileage may of course vary - but these are things to think about. Robyn

Thank-you for the info. I am going to email the local Thrifty branch where I have the reservation and get details more on the insurance.

In the mean time, can anyone help me interpret the following terms at the bottom of my reservation:




PDW? Is this the liability insurance that we were discussing in the prior posts above (LDW)? If so, this sounds like it isn't included?

Third Party Liability? What exactly is this?

PAI? What is this?

PDW is physical damage waiver.

PAI is personal accident insurance - which is probably "med pay" (pays for a certain amount of medical bills).

Third party liability is what covers you if you kill or injure someone.

One thing I forgot to mention in my other message is that if you kill or injure someone in Germany - they can hire a lawyer to sue you where you live - in the US - if they think they'd get a bigger verdict there than in their home town. Robyn

I usually end up renting through an agent, which, at least for France, is cheaper and provides additional benefits. I just used http://www.rentalcargroup.com/ to rent a car in the South of France, and, although I didn't use any of it, their rental (which ended up being via National/Alamo) included a variety of extra insurance and was lots cheaper than renting directly from the National or Hertz, etc.


I use rentalcargroup all the time and have had nothing be good experiences with them. Their rate, which includes insurance as stated above, is always much less than through the companies directly. I'm a loyal AVIS customer, but won't use them in Europe since they want to charge me about twice what rentalcargroup wants without insurance. Rentalcargroup has always come through exactly as promised, the care I reserved - or better - is available and there are no unexpected extra charges. The one time an agency tried to charge me for damage I hadn't done rentalcargroup stepped in and that was the last I heard of it.

When I rent in the states I never take out the extra insurance, but in Europe I just feel more comfortable knowing that I won't have to worry about credit card coverage, etc.

I have read so many half true statement so I would like to add a true one:

1.
Third party liability in Germany: The minimum statutory insurance is quite low in Germany and covers only 2.5 Mio Euro per injured person and 500.000 k Euro for damages (in general sufficient). The rent-a-car companies - I checked that for Sixt - signed a 50 Mio. lump sum insurance with a cap of 8 Mio. per person for injuries. This should be sufficient for all accidents with personal injuries under German law (Comensation for pain and suffer is in general no more than 1 Mio Euro for the most severe cases). It includes defence costs in front of civil courts but not in criminal courts. The insurer takes car of the defence in civil courts. Since the injured party has a direct claim vs. the insurer, the insurer deals in general deals with everything.

2.
CDW pays for damages the rented car suffered. In general, there still is a retained amount of 500 to 750 Euros.

3.
PAI pays very limited amounts for personal injuries of the passengers of the car. In general there is no need for this: If you are responsible for an accident and passengers get injured, the passengers are "third party" under German law and are covered under 1). If the other cardriver is responsible, his insurance is responsible for all damages. The coverage is in general very low (Sixt's coverage offers 500 Euro for medical expenses), I would in general not buy PAI.

Flying Lawyer - Thanks for the information. That is a remarkably high amount of mandatory liability insurance. And I'm sure it's sufficient for the average renter. Robyn