One of the topics that hasn't been discussed much during this US/DL merger talk is the brand of the "Delta" name vs. the "US Airways" name.

Many of the people I've spoken to (friends, colleagues, etc) say they "hate" US Air, but never seem to explain why. They just don't like them.

Can anyone explain why there's so much hatred (mainly in the past, I think) towards US Air, relative to other legacy carriers? The top reasons I can think of are:

1) Lost baggage
2) The PHL 'tood of customer service
3) PHL delays (no better/worse than LGA/BOS/IAD/DCA/ORD/ATL/EWR)

Other than that, aren't they pretty much on par (service wise) with the rest of the legacy carriers?

I dare say that if you take away PHL, US is one of the finer carriers in the country.

But - my point is - that's like saying "That burger would be delicious without the meat."

I dont hate US Airways. I actually prefer to fly them.

They always have a cheap route to where I am going from one of the numerous (9 airports within 3 hours of my house). I always get where I am going in a timely matter, with exception of weather delays. Service is usually "good". The jets are clean. The fleet is fairly modern. The only thing that I "hate" is PHL. The other airlines are just about the same there though. I go out of my way to connect in CLT or PIT or even LGA.

I think a lot of the ill-will has to do with the manner in which USAir rolled up well-liked carriers across the country and created a product that became worse with each successive transaction. Combining deteriorating customer service and low employee morale with the legendary "Blo-Fares" in many key markets isn't exactly a recipe for brand-building.

I was "forced" to start flying USAir when they took over Piedmont Airlines. Piedmont was wonderful back in the 1980s -- for example I distinctly remember they had something called a family fare that was relatively inexpensive, but could be cancelled with a full refund if your kid got an earache and couldn't fly, for example. That fare probably wouldn't exist anywhere nowadays, but the instant USAir took them over, it was gone. Service overall was worse too... So that is the genesis of my negative feelings for USAir; it works for me now, but I will never feel about it the way I felt about Peidmont!

I dare say that if you take away PHL, US is one of the finer carriers in the country.

But - my point is - that's like saying "That burger would be delicious without the meat."

That's what I'm thinking as well. All of their major problems can be traced back to PHL.

I have never had any lost luggage at PHL.

But US' website is even worse than UA's website! They should hire the same company that does CO's website.

Besides one 24 hour "lost luggage" incident (probably due to getting to the airport late - my fault), I have had nothing but good experiences with US. Although I haven't flown them a lot lately (business puts me on WN), I have always enjoyed my flights.

Bob

I dare say that if you take away PHL, US is one of the finer carriers in the country.
But - my point is - that's like saying "That burger would be delicious without the meat."

Fortunately, out of ROA I almost always fly through CLT, either because that's what's available or to avoid the deafening two-hour trips on a Dash-8. Thus I generally have looked forward to flying US over other carriers -- even more a couple years ago when the alternatives were mostly G-gates at Dulles, old DTW, or overcrowded ATL.

BTW, I'm also vegetarian, so "That burger would be delicious without the meat." isn't out of the question. In fact, dinner tonight will be a delicious Santa Fe burger at Red Robin, but with a veggie burger instead of the meat. :)

If this happens(the DL/US) I really hope they can keep the name US Airways. Sounds much better than Delta.

I grew up on USAir. Got my first status on US, my first upgrade on US, etc... and stuck with them through thick-and-thin (including two bankruptcies). I always had a foot in the UA camp from the days when US wasn't *A and had a limited route map. In the last two years, I've given up on US.

I can't point to anyone incident, but it is clear when they call themselves a "low cost, full service" airline every choice has been made in towards "low cost". As a 1K flyer, the small things do make a difference. The problem is that its a cycle. Whereas UA is reinvesting in lie flat business class beds for overseas travel, US still has old 767's with seats that still have taped-over ashtrays (how long ago did they ban smoking?). Someone makes the mistake of paying full fare business on US once, and only once. So no one is paying full fare FC or business class, US sees no need to reinvest, so the cycle continues. US has decided they want to be Southwest, not a full service airline.

If you travel a lot, paying a little more is worth the amenitities. Let Little Red Riding Hood that goes to gramma's house once a year fly US - I'll take UA anyday.

I think there are two reasons why people who don't fly US hate them.

First, there was the PHL baggage disaster. That's the kind of thing that brings people to have a categorical bad attitude towards a company. After a while, many people don't remember exactly what it was that made them hate US, but they remember that they do.

Second, US's policy of gouging people in their "home" markets bred ill will. These folks should be their core market, but they feel victimized by the local monopolist, celebrate when a competitor comes to town, and don't begin to shed a tear when US gets into trouble.

There are lots of other reasons as well, but I think US played these two issues very badly, and alienated lots of people in the process.

It's a shame PHL keeps coming up as the main reason to 'hate' US Airways. Since I began working for US 6 years ago, it has massively improved and is now not an unpleasant place to connect through. There may be some residual issues with staff 'attitude', but the baggage issues are now no worse than anywhere else (you can't crucify an airline's reputation based on one - albeit dreadful - baggage crisis. It was years ago, and has not reoccurred) and the new International terminal is very impressive and efficient.

I think some folks would do well to stop criticising PHL out of sheer habit, and take a look at how much the place has improved.

Warbo - PHL has improved very little, but not as much as some other airlines hubs. I still dread flying through or out of PHL.

I have flown US Airways the most. I don't have huge complaints, I prefer them to United. A recent flight crew did an excellent job dealing with an unruly passenger on one of my recent flights.

They are also the only airline that has totally destroyed my luggage. This was previous to the "baggage crisis". The bag showed up soaking wet on the conveyor after my flight (25 lbs dry, over 80 lbs wet), there was no one willing to take a baggage claim. I took it all to be professionally cleaned, and US still tried to get out of paying the claim. I had to go to a ticket counter with all the damaged items before they would take me seriously. They did end up paying.

Employee morale seems to be an issue. One time I spent most of the flight talking to an FA in FC. I heard a lot of horror stories about the job and the benefits/job security. I would have gotten over that baggage issue had they not fought it. This is the stuff that can make or break a business...somewhere they lost focus a little...that's all.

Just my opinion, but I think it's two factors....

1 - It's human nature to see more of the warts on that you know the best. Our FF's spend enough time with us (and US) to see all the warts.

2 - Pre-merger US pretty much cut customer service and amenities to the bone during the two visits to BK court. Whether that'll be reversed, and if so by how much, remains to be seen but in the meantime we've fallen behind at least some of the competition.

but the baggage issues are now no worse than anywhere else (you can't crucify an airline's reputation based on one - albeit dreadful - baggage crisis. It was years ago, and has not reoccurred)

Yet even Parker says that baggage issues are 4 times worst at PHL than anywhere else in the system. They're not spending all that money and manpower to fix non-existent problems....

Jim

IMO, hate is an irrational term to describe an airline. That said there's some folks who do indeed seem to hate US judging by their posts in other topical threads -- I'll let others judge how rational or irratioinal that is.

I do however believe there's a great deal of dissatisfaction with US as a product, and for that, there's certainly legitimate cause for concern. PHL is a tough labor city to live in, and as a US hub city, PHL most definitely rubs people the wrong way. US has never figured out how to deal with the PHL labor paradigm, though Mr. Parker seems to have taken a better stab at things here than others.

Recently US seems to be improving the abysmal baggage service at PHL. I'm ticked off to learn that one of the reasons for the magnitude of baggage issues at PHL involves the lack of scanners to read the tags -- an easily addressable technology problem for which solutions do indeed exist. Why it takes so long to tackle this part of the problem is beyond me.

There's also been a deterioration of service as cabins are reconfigured, livery switched out, & FAs decreased. The Envoy TA product is in need of revitalization, especially in the 757s. Presumably US is in the process of revamping the 57s, adding IFEs, and other cosmetics. I can understand that these changes require time, but I do not comprehend how US continues raise the prices on a lackluster TA product.

Likewise, one has to wonder about the future value of the DM program. It's all fine and dandy that US aggressively markets DM and FF miles with promotions that do not require you to sit your butt in a seat, but one who earns their miles the old fashioned way by paying and flying can legitimately wonder if the UG seat will be there for them when they need it. US is very unclear about whether they're committed to elites or not.

Finally, there's frustration with the US web site, glitches with OLCI vs. kiosks when upgrading, and spotty cabin service.

Are these reasons to "hate" US. Hardly. But these and other posts here do indeed underscore that US needs to focus on the product and the delivery of consistent service while communicating with their regular customers.

Barry

There are a few surveys posted on FT from, I believe, Business Week or Forbes or one of those magazines, indicating that US is viewed very negatively in the business world and by consumers. I'd say that (1) ripping hub cities and other markets off with high fares, (2) multiple bankruptcies and (3) typical airline problems (e.g., surly staff, which certainly isn't solely a US problem) have alienated people.

From my own experience, First on US isn't as good as First on some other airlines, but the number of people who are road warriors and who get upgraded probably is not large enough to really hurt US's overall image, I'd think.

Here's why I dislike (not hate) US - I have supported them and been an exceptionally loyal customer but things just aren't getting better in the areas I believe they should and I'm poised to go try what i hope are some greener pastures:

-US's general attitude - PHL is the terrible (agents scream at customers) but in general it is not a gracious airline (CLT crews excepted)
-Lousy coach seats (they fall drastically behind AA and UA for seat comfort)
-Too many RJs on long flights
-In-consistency of In-Flight Cafe
-F product: it's terrible. I never feel spoiled in US F anywhere in the U.S. I barely feel spoiled flying Enovy. That's not the way F should be. AA serves F meals and then warmed cookies and milk and better wine on linen with glassware on 1:15 air-time flights DFW-BNA.
-Poor quality transatlantic coach meals
-Utter confusion among agents about policies - even the CP desk can get confused now
-The fact that PHL-BNA can be $59 each way non-stop and $460 via CLT - Blo Fares in disguise
-A small US Club network - coupled with a crumbling B/C Club in PHL
-Diminishing F cabins - killing upgrade chances - what difference to unlimited upgrades make then?
-Lousy Gold and Platinum bonuses
-CP certs that are becoming useless

well that's enough for now

'tood of customer service

I'm sure that you're making a great point but I'm sorry that I don't understand your slang; what are you trying to say in English?

Thanks!

I'm sure that you're making a great point but I'm sorry that I don't understand your slang; what are you trying to say in English?

Thanks!

Then you've never been to PHL or speak PHLadelphian :D

The Philly "'tood" spreads beyond the Philadelphia airport. Philadelphia has had an inferiority complex ever since it was stripped of it's the title as capital of the United States. It's nestled between New York and Washington, two of the most important cities in the world. Our sports teams haven't won a national championship in 23 years (sorry, the Phantoms or Wings don't count). For years it was known as Philth-adelphia (rightfully so). For most people, you either love it or you hate it.

Some would argue that this is part of the underlying attitude of some PHL employees. Lazy, rude and cold. If you venture outside the airport and into the city, you'll find the same attitude in and around the city. But this is just what makes Philadelphia what it is. If you grew up there (like myself), you accept it as part of the culture.

To go along with what others have previously said, I think many people have been scared for life by US' blunders over the last few years (baggage, attitudes, high fares, low class service, deteriorating PHL conditions). If they were to take another look at the new US (whether it be US/HP/DL or just US/HP), I think they'll find that they are making great strides in trying to erase those mistakes. Refurbishing aircraft and fixing a baggage system where the Mayor's brother owns the maintenance contract can't be fixed over night.

But for some people, that may just be too little too late...

Just my $0.02.

I have been primarily flying US since I started regular business travel about 4 years ago.

There are three primary reasons I dislike US Airways:

Overall customer service - PHL is a nightmare. Baggage in PIT and PHL are atrocious and many of the employees I interface with are just miserable.

Diminished choices in PIT - The de-hubbing of PIT and slashing flights by 70%+ means it's not as easy for me to find direct flights where I want to go. Yes, PHL might be a bigger city, but PIT was a much better hub.

But the biggest killer is the quality of the product - Routes and choices disappearing, old Dash-8s and CRJs on long regional flights, awful coach seats, drab planes that feel ancient, F that gets you little more than food, drink and space - and God forbid on a short flight; etc, etc. I really feel like herded cattle more than on any other airline, even Southwest.

Why I stay with US...
Most choices from PIT - US is still the dominant carrier, so I have the most flexibility from my home airport.

CP desk - Most people are very helpful and I have gotten overall great service each time I've called.

First-class upgrades - Most of my routes are trans-continental and I never pay a full fare, so sometimes it's tough; but this is a perk that seems more streamlined with US than other carriers.

But I would only have one of those without my status. The CLT hub is also a great operation. Good people, good service, and I'm usually on-time.

I don't hate US Air, just very unhappy with their service. I first flew them in 1970, having originally been from PIT. I agree with all the reasons set forth above. I have flown many airlines coming out of bankruptcy and have been through many mergers, but America West has done a real poor job on the merger. They are doing nothing to retain business passengers. They should have treated their business customers well until the two airlines were fully integrated and operating smoothly. For example, I would have waited a few years before I made any downward adjustments to the size of domestic first class. On the international Airbus 333's I would have put in a few rows of Economy + in place of the Envoy seats now being removed.

For example, I would have waited a few years before I made any downward adjustments to the size of domestic first class. On the international Airbus 333's I would have put in a few rows of Economy + in place of the Envoy seats now being removed.

I think you are underestimating how important it is to turn a profit immediately. The new USAir doesnt have "years" to make wait and make adjustments. I have plenty of gripes with USAir but if their model says that people arent buying FC seats and that the addition of more profitable coach seats gets them in the black, then thats what they will need to do.

All the airlines cant hemmorage money forever, eventually most of the current airlines in business will go under. Especially if the Govt stops propping them up. I think we should all be rooting for profitable airlines, it makes our trips better. Profitability will bring innovation and competitive balance which in turn will mean a better overall flying experience for us, imo.

Ken in Phx

the baggage issues are now no worse than anywhere else
... take a look at how much the place has improved.

I must respectfully disagree. The last time I had the misfortune of terminating in PHL (because the fare from ABE was about triple that of PHL), it took 45 minutes for luggage to arrive. For a narrowbody arriving at an off-peak hour, that is just not acceptable. You can drive from PHL to ABE in a few minutes more than it took to get luggage from the plane to landside. The Airbus to CLT is my preferred option on US, I avoid PHL like the plague it is. Besides, CLT has Carolina Pit Barbecue ^ which makes for a good quick nosh before catching the night 'bus back to ABE


One of the other posters was talking about the removal of F seats because they don't sell. Well, my march golf trip itin will prove useful. ABE-MYR, 3/13-3/19, through CLT. Coach ticket, $208 R/T, First, $1438 R/T. One flight is 1:37, the other 57 minutes. I can get an A fare R/T to vegas for my annual convention for 700 something. Yeah, I know, LAS is a low yield market.

Personally, I would probably pay 4-500 for the seat up front as a no-status passenger on US, but 1400??? The problem with filling those seats is not the quality of the product, it's that the fare is ludicrous.

They will still be flying me, just for 1/7th the revenue. The F seat will probably go gratis to a preferred member (which won't produce any extra revenue on THIS flight ... NOT saying that you didn't pay for your status). So the bean counters will lament the non-sale of this seat and decide to do more dumb stunts like 8F 757 transcons.


Don't hate the airline, hate the dumb decision making that generates fares and service that don't make sense. Most of the stupidity we see as customers starts in some ivory tower, although Philly doesn't help itself too much (lived there a few years, so I know of what I speak)

1) The way US royally screwed over the city of Pittsburgh and its people in the middle of the night (and I'm not just talking about the high fares either). Then left us with.....
2)The 'Philadelphia Experience': Bad attitudes, worse facilities, and carpeting you could catch genital herpes from. They couldn't move a bag less than a hundred feet when I had a three and a half hour layover once.

I have been an off and on flyer on US Air since 1992. I twice achieved gold status as I flew often from TPA to DCA and from TPA to LGA. I also used them on some other locations as well.

I still fly them on some of my flights to DCA but nothing else. The level of service in TPA has gone done every year for at least decade. Today US air is the fourth place airline out of TPA. It was the dominant carrier when I started flying them.

In addition to reduced service, the baggage handling is slow beyond any reasonable explaination. It takes 45 minutes to get a bag off the plane and to the luggage ramp in TPA. That is if it shows up at all.

Then there is the web site issue. It is so frustrating to go through the entire process of booking a flight and at the last submit the whole thing bombs and you must start over.

Recently I burned 25,000 miles for a free flight for my wife from TPA to ROA to visit my daughter at her university. I used the on line reservation system and couldn't get the exact dates I wanted but I settled for something close. The flight was TPA-CLT-ROA-CLT-TPA. Not to bad. After hitting the final submit the whole thing disappeared without a trace. An hour with one of their tech people didn't help any to fix the problem. Finally we did the reservation by phone and had to pay the extra fee, but the worst was the new routing. Now the route was TPA-CLT-ROA-PHL-TPA. The more direct flight back through CLT was somehow used up by our on line attempt that was never completed.

The final straw of course was on my wife's return which was now through PHL, where she had 95 minutes on the ground, her bag didn't make that "tight" connecting time. So we waited at the baggage ramp for over an hour in TPA with no luck. The line at the baggage office from other passengers coming from PHL was long. Two days later her bag was delivered home.

There was no appology for screwing the trip up in everyway you can think of. From start to end it was bad.

US Air needs to fire the web site designer and then fix it. Then it needs to fire every lazy baggage handler in PHL and TPA.

The "rape of Pittsburgh" also has a lot to do with it - at least for me.

I lived in PIT for 4 years, and I know that airport was built 100% by and for US Airways. They essentially told Pittsburgh down to the letter what kind of airport they wanted, and the city, county, and taxpayers coughed up a ton of money and delivered it to US Airways on a silver platter.

10 years later, US flies a few jungle jets to PIT and keeps it in the "in da hub" section of US Airways magazine to appease the locals.

Now everyone in PIT is forced to fly through PHL with its enormous aforementioned problems. The PIT airport is wonderfully designed, and very aesthetically pleasing. PIT flyers can't help but wander through PHL and think "they gave up PIT for this?!??!"

I know it's fashionable to jump all over US Airways, but honestly, my last trip on Delta was also in the back of a loud, dirty metal tube where I consumed a soda and some peanuts and connected in a congested hub that required a tram ride. Sometime I think the little differences at the margin are just that: little.

Hopefully they phase out the MDs as soon as possible.

I hear the same thing all the time...and yesterday was the worst. I was with a pack of DL flyers who where pitching a fit. Now in fairness, one of them had a father who worked for DL for a long time, but the others just happen to live in Atlanta. The whole US bankruptcy thing didn't help the rep but DL is facing that now too.

I think its just loyalty. I live near DC, ergo Cowboys suck...its that simple. I guess some people truly have reasons. I left DL b/c when they went to EQMs I felt like they were insulting their best customers. I grew up with Pediment and felt some nostalgia there, so I went to US and have been happy ever since.

But really, I do think its just I fly X therefore I dont like Y, Z or A for that matter.

I can't go so far as to say I hate USAir, but I certainly dislike them. My main complaint is the representatives don't know their product and consistently give wrong information. I've asked a simple question "How many days out can you book f.f. seats?" and received 3 different answers. This is just one example but I've often received incorrect information. Their website is the worst as well. Also, with their foreign call centers there is definitely a communication problem and I hate spending all my time saying "Can you please repeat that".

Give me AA any day!

I have never had any lost luggage at PHL.

But US' website is even worse than UA's website! They should hire the same company that does CO's website.
Tell Troy Fernwalt, he thinks it's pretty snazzy (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/technology/20web.html?ex=1308456000&en=8f7adf579f90d1e9&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

I live in a location where I can fly easily both US and DL.

I stopped flying US because of poor quality product (and because of substantially improved product on DL). I have no ties to either airline, and own no shares of either.

Methinks however that some may be jumping the gun in thinking that the merger will actually go forward, considering the monopolization of the south that such a merger will render (and the WallSt.J. happens to be on the same page)

Are other LCCs (other than US that is) going to jump in and fly to Charlottesville, VA, Montgomery, AL??

Dream on..

The Wall Street Journal:
If Delta and US Airways merged, that "would destroy competition in the deep South," says aviation consultant Michael Boyd of the Boyd Group. He points to Charleston, S.C., as an example. No airline currently commands more than 39% of the market share there, but a merged Delta-US Airways would gain control of more than 70% of that market. A "new" Delta also would control more than 75% of the market in Montgomery, Ala., and nearly 80% in Charlottesville, Va. "This is going to really hurt the consumer," he says.

I do not hate US, I just don't fly them anymore. Maybe LCC is getting their act together now and I will return someday. However, I have enjoyed flying UA and crediting my miles to MP.

I don't hate US, but am disappointed in the downward spiral of the product. I had to fly UA FC this summer, after a FC transcon on US. It was wonderful and really made me question why I don't switch. Virgin is also looking better and better and I can get picked up to get to EWR.

I also hate that because the website doesn't work most of the time, I have to pay extra for a phone assist reservation. I didn't opt for that, was forced to use it. And let's not talk about the language comprehension issue. They should pay us to call and speak to someone outsourced.

Since PHL is home, and I do have an 'addy-tood' sometimes, I must say that I have always had very receptive customer service and never lost luggage.

Jane (Knock wood, I fly on the 30th and several other subsequent flights..)

I started flying US as America West out of JFK. I was upgraded most of the time as a silver and was satisfied with the product/price. Now that the merger is complete I find upgrades are rare and the only real advantage is pre-booking exit seats. I was forced to relocate to south Jersey and fly out of PHL which is a disaster just about every time. It's not US's fault as much as the amount of traffic going out of there. Being told that you're 46th in line or more is not uncommon. When it happens on an RJ you end up returning to the gate for fuel. Baggage delays of up to an hour and lost luggage just add to it. I've stayed with US so far but wonder if I may be better served by flying DL out of ACY

Here's why I dislike (not hate) US - I have supported them and been an exceptionally loyal customer but things just aren't getting better in the areas I believe they should and I'm poised to go try what i hope are some greener pastures:
1-US's general attitude - PHL is the terrible (agents scream at customers) but in general it is not a gracious airline (CLT crews excepted)
2-Lousy coach seats (they fall drastically behind AA and UA for seat comfort)
3-Too many RJs on long flights
4-In-consistency of In-Flight Cafe
5-F product: it's terrible. I never feel spoiled in US F anywhere in the U.S. I barely feel spoiled flying Enovy. That's not the way F should be. AA serves F meals and then warmed cookies and milk and better wine on linen with glassware on 1:15 air-time flights DFW-BNA.
6-Poor quality transatlantic coach meals
7-Utter confusion among agents about policies - even the CP desk can get confused now
8-The fact that PHL-BNA can be $59 each way non-stop and $460 via CLT - Blo Fares in disguise
9-A small US Club network - coupled with a crumbling B/C Club in PHL
10-Diminishing F cabins - killing upgrade chances - what difference to unlimited upgrades make then?
11-Lousy Gold and Platinum bonuses
12-CP certs that are becoming useless

well that's enough for now
Nice list. My sentiment is similar to yours, I don't like them very much, but don't hate them. I will NEVER go out of my way to fly US (I used to). However, if it is easier on me to fly US, I'll consider the convenience factor.
#1,5,7,10 and 11 are my main reasons.

I dont hate them either. I've preferred to fly them for the past 5 or so years now, mainly because they were the only ones who could fly me straight thru from SFO to CLT. Of course now with the merger with America West, those straight thru flights are harder to come by and I do hate that they adopted A.Wests style of looking at ticket prices. I hate that, I prefer the old way at US where you could just punch in your codes and the prices would come up and you could book that way. I hate this little box of the breakdown the way it is now...Hate it! Hate it! Hate it!...but dont hate the airline.

the baggage issues are now no worse than anywhere else

You need to get your facts straight before you make wrong assertions such as that. US Airways as a whole, and PHL in particular, have far worse baggage problems than a lot of airlines do.

From the Arizona Republic, among other sources that a quick Internet search can reveal (including more recent data available through the DOT website that show that those baggage problems are still relatively bad):

Complaints highest at US Airways
Tempe-based airline's rate of mishandled bags also worsened in August; staffing woes a factor

Dawn Gilbertson
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 5, 2006 12:00 AM

US Airways continues to come up far short of its competitors in key customer-service measures.

The Tempe-based airline, which has been struggling with its operations for several months, had the highest complaint rate among 20 airlines in August and was 15th of 20 in baggage handling, according to the monthly Air Travel Consumer Report from the U.S. Department of Transportation.

In both cases, the airline's performance was worse than a year ago...The baggage problem, which is a key source of complaints, stems largely from a shortage of baggage handlers and support staff over the summer in Philadelphia...[and elsewhere]

When US sent out the email a month ago and joked about suggestions from their customers (Close the Philly airport), you know you have a big problem. Even with it tongue fully in cheek, Tempe knows that Philly is a problem that may be too big for anyone to solve.

When US sent out the email a month ago and joked about suggestions from their customers (Close the Philly airport), you know you have a big problem. Even with it tongue fully in cheek, Tempe knows that Philly is a problem that may be too big for anyone to solve.
Could one solution be to merge with another airline and reduce the amount of traffic through PHL?

Could one solution be to merge with another airline and reduce the amount of traffic through PHL?

That will work if they dehub PHL, otherwise any shift of traffic to another airport will be offset by an increase of flights by WN. WN wants to grow to more than a 100 daily flights (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/15768684.htm) and just needs the gate space to expand.

So what excuse would LCC use to keep the gate space if they move the number of flights it would take to make a difference at PHL.

That will work if they dehub PHL, otherwise any shift of traffic to another airport will be offset by an increase of flights by WN. WN wants to grow to more than a 100 daily flights (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/15768684.htm) and just needs the gate space to expand.

So what excuse would LCC use to keep the gate space if they move the number of flights it would take to make a difference at PHL.

What about a re-hub of PIT? Despite my selfish interests, PIT is a relatively new airport with lots of open space and gates, decent shopping and dormant US clubs. As a gateway to the West it could decompress PHL. Labor issues and overhead cannot be any worse than PHL.

What about a re-hub of PIT? Despite my selfish interests, PIT is a relatively new airport with lots of open space and gates, decent shopping and dormant US clubs. As a gateway to the West it could decompress PHL. Labor issues and overhead cannot be any worse than PHL.
I just flew through PIT Wed and my PIT/PHX row mate flies to the East much more than I do. We both advised the lady between us to NEVER-EVER fly through PHL. We both wondered why US doesn't shut PHL down and move their hub to PIT. I used to work in the air express industry and when I was selling in the domestic side of the business, I would refuse to take on a new customer if PHL was one of their primary destinations. The company I worked for had terrible union problems there, to the point where the union employees blew up 4-5 trucks with parcels inside. If a prospect had occasional shipments there, I directed them to use a competitor that wasn't unionized.

I wholeheartedly support PIT as a hub - nice airport and better attitudes than PHL.

What about a re-hub of PIT? e than PHL.
Stock answer from the company will be lack of O&D.

Nobody here seemed to mention that a US CP doesn't have comp access to any lounge but any *G from any other airline does have access. That simple point of principal shows that US doesn't reward their top tier. But regardless, the lounges suck to begin with!

You only need to fly with AC or LH, LX or some of the other world class carriers out there to realize that US is very inferior. And their rates aren't that much more than US.

The AC coach product is comfortable and acceptable and would take it any day over US F.

Bought PSA - Not a single route PSA was flying is left, Southwest now dominates that market with the Greyhoundization of air travel

One horible flight from LAX to BWI and I stayed away at any cost

Doug Parker couldn't run HP worth a ...., now he is going to be the president of the world largest airline.

Maybe they should rename it Titanic

Nobody here seemed to mention that a US CP doesn't have comp access to any lounge but any *G from any other airline does have access. That simple point of principal shows that US doesn't reward their top tier. But regardless, the lounges suck to begin with!
CP+'s get a year's free access to US Lounges. Just another tier.

I think the point was that as a US club member you have to pay for access to UA or Star lounges. If you hold status on UA, it is more cost efficient to join the RCC and get free access to US.

Just another example of penny wise and pound foolish.

8 Seats in First Class on a 757..A reason any FF should hate them! :mad:

1. PHL and its customer service "'tood" and overall cr@pness
2. Sudden lack of smiles in the air from FAs compared to the HP experience pre-merger
3. Memories of the holiday baggage melt-down - I had flown a bunch of relatives to PHX on US for that Christmas, and I was embarrassed for US and personally by the whole experience

If the Delta deal actually goes through, and Doug can call the company Delta, jettison PHL, and re-hub PIT instead, that would make US, I mean DL, a credible option again.

I really miss the HP option for flying, and I would go back if the situation changed a little to DL.

They are a company in flux, in a very difficult industry. I understand the difficulties faced throughout the system and employees who may have trouble getting excited about their employer.

I do get irritated when I run across a bad employee -- either disinterest, rudeness or incompetence. But that is not the norm. By far most of the employees that I have intereacted with over 2006 have been friendly, competent and helpful.

I get frustrated when core processes don't work well, such as PHL baggage handling. I dislike riding in poorly maintained equipment or waiting in poorly maintained airports.

I am very disappointed in the lack of standard mile award tickets even in off season travel, the lack of good in flight entertainment systems and the lack of decent food (particularly in first class).

8 Seats in First Class on a 757..A reason any FF should hate them! :mad:
You're kidding, right? Wow, am I glad I live in Dallas!

You need to get your facts straight before you make wrong assertions such as that. US Airways as a whole, and PHL in particular, have far worse baggage problems than a lot of airlines do.

From the Arizona Republic, among other sources that a quick Internet search can reveal (including more recent data available through the DOT website that show that those baggage problems are still relatively bad):

Complaints highest at US Airways
Tempe-based airline's rate of mishandled bags also worsened in August; staffing woes a factor

Dawn Gilbertson
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 5, 2006 12:00 AM

US Airways continues to come up far short of its competitors in key customer-service measures.

The Tempe-based airline, which has been struggling with its operations for several months, had the highest complaint rate among 20 airlines in August and was 15th of 20 in baggage handling, according to the monthly Air Travel Consumer Report from the U.S. Department of Transportation.

In both cases, the airline's performance was worse than a year ago...The baggage problem, which is a key source of complaints, stems largely from a shortage of baggage handlers and support staff over the summer in Philadelphia...[and elsewhere]

I can only comment on the job i do in relation to the transatlantic market.. and baggage irregularities from PHL have dropped massively. I can't speak for the domestic market, but from the European side PHL is generally very efficient these days with baggage.

PHL is my home airport, and while I am very critical of most things there, I do have to say that over the past month the baggage situation has gotten a little better.
I can't speak as to the lost baggage situation on connections, but for an O&D passenger, I have not had to wait more than 25 minutes for a bag since the beginning of October. (Knocking firmly on wood).
I know that I will get royally lit up for this statement, but I do think that the PHL problem is seriously over emphasized by many on this board.
1) The employees there are rude. I'm the first to agree. But they were no more pleasant in LAS Friday morning.
2) The atmosphere stinks. I agree. The concourses are narrow...and connections are a pain. But does anyone think that the atmosphere in ORD is nice? How about LAX? (Reminds me of a Greyhound terminal). Or LAS, an incredibly busy airport where there are 2 AGENTS handling the Preferred line at check-in !!!
3) Delays in and out of PHL. Folks, welcome to life on the eastern seaboard. The same holds true for EWR/JFK/LGA/IAD/BOS etc...
4) PIT as a hub. No offense to the Burgh folks out there but it simply is not going to happen. If you think that folks living on the east coast are ever going to fly west...just to catch a 7+ hour flight east to Europe..think again.
5) I agree with most of the service related points already raised. 8 F seats on a 757? Stinks. The Envoy product? Stinks. (Especially in comparison to the competition).
6) The constant bombardment of ads. Everything from napkins to seat trays, to the credit card. It comes off as extremely low rent.
7) The lack of commitment to the business traveler, both in the sky as well as through the DM program. The things that others on other airlines take for granted, we have to worry about. Things such as making changes via the website, a free or reduced price club experience for your top travelers, automatic upgrades always happening, text messages or voice mails when a flight is delayed...etc.
Just my random .02

The reasons that I suppose I really began to dislike US were the way in which they dealt with on time issues and the connections through PHL. The reasons I stopped flying them were those reasons and the deterioration of service.

There was something particular about the on-time issue at US that struck me as different than on other airlines. I was a CP for a number of years and for most of those years did it with 100 segments. I was also a 1K on UA. My last year at US I was a CP a 1K and a Platinum on AA, although I was CP because fo bonuses, I actually only flew about 50K or 60K. But still a fairly large base to compare the three airlines.

All of the airlines had on time issues. I think US was much worse but there was more to it than that. On US it seemed much more likely that they wouldnt give good information and wouldnt try to do anything if there was a connection that was going to be a problem until after the fact. Two incidents come to mind on US. One was standing at a gate and talking on my cell phone to the CP desk and being told that the flight I was on, which was already delayed, was leaving in 1 minute so my connection was still okay. I pointed out that the door was closed and no one had boarded and my suspicion was that they couldnt board a full A320, taxi and wait for take from LGA at 6:30 PM on a weekday in one minute. She repeated the departure time. I spent the night at a hotel in CLT. The second was in STL. Everyone was standing around the gate, including the crew. I checked and Sabre showed a delay for our flight. I had the pleasure of telling the captain of our flight that we were going to be delayed. They hadnt told him yet. He was displeased that no one had bothered to tell him. The bottom line for me was that I felt that I absolutely could not trust US to get me where I was going close to the scheduled time. I didnt have that feeling about UA and AA.

It is very common in my experience that this sort of denial and lack of information happens. It is much more common that on AA or UA as I would check in they would say, opps, problem with that flight, its late we have re-routed you in the following way. Both UA and AA are much more proactive in getting you where you are going if there are delays than is US in my opinion.

PHL to me made US unflyable for all intents and purposes. I felt for instance that I routinely needed a minimum connection time of 2 hours there for domestic flights where I could take a later flight if I missed and 4 hours on international flights. Even with 4 hours, I didnt feel comfortable. Life is too short for dealing with that or with all of the other problems with PHL.

The service deterioration in first was the other issue. No need to go into the details. But basically I could get a nice meal and service on AA or UA for the same price as on US so why bother with US.

Interestingly, I have talked about the US issue with a few limo drivers while getting picked up at LGA. As I have been coming in really late or been muttering obscenities a couple have commented that based on picking people up their customers hate US more than the other airlines. That would be an interesting group of people to do a customer satisfaction survey on. Ask the limo drivers which airline people complain about the most :).

I dont hate them either. Any company is just a sum of its people. US has some good and some bad.

I dont hate them either. Any company is just a sum of its people. US has some good and some bad.

I definately agree. I like US much better than UA. In terms of employees I found US' agents in PHL much nicer than UA' IAD or ORD staff. The US ORD crew is the nicest though. The only US staff I disliked was the LAX GA's. Folks in LAX club were really nice. I did hear some good stuff about US LAX empolyees so I'll just assume all the good guy and gals were off from work that day. Now thats only the GA's. US's pref desk in very friendly and most FA's are some of the nicest on US. UA has their good people as well but I prefer US much, much more.

. . . I can't speak for the domestic market, but from the European side PHL is generally very efficient these days with baggage . . .

Warbo knows of what he speaks.

We fly SNN, LGW & MAD with regularity and the baggage handling at all three destinations has always been timely.

Likewise the baggage situation at PHL A-west has never been problematic and bags most usually hit the belt within 15 to 20 minutes of gate arrival.

I have a so-so domestic wait for a PHX-PHL flight two weeks ago ( 30-35 minutes ), but in talking with other more regular flyers, they say that PHL has gotten better the past several weeks. Time, will of course tell if real change is occurring at PHL.

Barry

. . . I know that I will get royally lit up for this statement, but I do think that the PHL problem is seriously over emphasized by many on this board . . .

I hear where you're coming from Phillygold and I mostly agree with you.

US aside, PHL is for the most part, no more dreary of an airport than many other destinations ( having seen & experienced the new T4 terminal at MAD Barajas and what I describe as airport nirvana, almost any airport looks mundane to me now ).

It's kind of hard to believe the investment the city has made to create what are now obviously cramped & dreary terminals in today's market -- but other cities have the same problem. Cosmetics could make things appear better than they are, but the city won't spring for the money. Hence when things bog down, so too do pax perceptions as they become sardines in the terminals. The same thing is happening in the parking garages as both economy lots and garages fill up. What is the city doing?

In terms of operational issues, the weather and runway limitations are indeed a fact of life in the northeast, especially in the summer when thunderstorms roll in and has a cascading effect which is out of the hands of every airline. PHL is no different than EWR, LGA, or BOS when this happens.

But PHL has this magical knack for making the pax more aware of their crummy situation when 30 plane takeoff queues line up. And then there's those interminable waits for gate people to show up after you taxi in.

I'm not quite sure how to categorize the domestic baggage situation at PHL. Is it operational or is it attitude? In either case, it doesn't play well in Peoria or in any other place. US appears to ( finally ) be addressing the operational shortcomings. Time will tell if the baggage handlers are themselves willing to do the job right. But I do see things on the A-west side working well from the very beginning, and I can only hope that things will get better in the other terminals as well.

So how much of this is directly the fault of the airline, how much the result of city (mis)management, and how much a consequence of that "special" Philly attitude? The real answer is probably a little bit of each -- just like at any other airport. But at PHL, you get an experience and a sensation which kind of sticks with you, like a chicken bone jammed sideways in your gullet. It really gets your attention after a couple of trips. ;)

Rightly or wrongly most of us are conditioned to expect the worst when we fly through PHL. It's not the fault of US. But they too should learn how to put a better face on things to improve the pax perception if not the overall experience.

Barry

. . . I know that I will get royally lit up for this statement, but I do think that the PHL problem is seriously over emphasized by many on this board . . .

I hear where you're coming from Phillygold and I mostly agree with you.

US aside, PHL is for the most part, no more dreary of an airport than many other destinations ( having seen & experienced the new T4 terminal at MAD Barajas and what I describe as airport nirvana, almost any airport looks mundane to me now ).

It's kind of hard to believe the investment the city has made to create what are now obviously cramped & dreary terminals in today's market -- but other cities have the same problem. Cosmetics could make things appear better than they are, but the city won't spring for the money. Hence when things bog down, so too do pax perceptions as they become sardines in the terminals. The same thing is happening in the parking garages as both economy lots and garages fill up. What is the city doing?

In terms of operational issues, the weather and runway limitations are indeed a fact of life in the northeast, especially in the summer when thunderstorms roll in and has a cascading effect which is out of the hands of every airline. PHL is no different than EWR, LGA, or BOS when this happens.

But PHL has this magical knack for making the pax more aware of their crummy situation when 30 plane takeoff queues line up. And then there's those interminable waits for gate people to show up after you taxi in.

I'm not quite sure how to categorize the domestic baggage situation at PHL. Is it operational or is it attitude? In either case, it doesn't play well in Peoria or in any other place. US appears to ( finally ) be addressing the operational shortcomings. Time will tell if the baggage handlers are themselves willing to do the job right. But I do see things on the A-west side working well from the very beginning, and I can only hope that things will get better in the other terminals as well.

So how much of this is directly the fault of the airline, how much the result of city (mis)management, and how much a consequence of that "special" Philly attitude? The real answer is probably a little bit of each -- just like at any other airport. But at PHL, you get an experience and a sensation which kind of sticks with you, like a chicken bone jammed sideways in your gullet. It really gets your attention after a couple of trips. ;)

Rightly or wrongly most of us are conditioned to expect the worst when we fly through PHL. It's not the fault of US. But they too should learn how to put a better face on things to improve the pax perception if not the overall experience.

Barry

The airline chose to have a hub in a place that was terrible for conections because of delays. That was their choice and their fault.

Excellent Post jerseyfinn! I agree 100% I have had horror at ATL, JFK, SAN, etc. Next week I'm off to DEN - anybody remember their baggage nightmares? PHL has issue but the main one is the lack of runways and some interesting union thinking (which hopefully is a thing of the past).

I can only comment on the job i do in relation to the transatlantic market.. and baggage irregularities from PHL have dropped massively. I can't speak for the domestic market, but from the European side PHL is generally very efficient these days with baggage.

OK, PHL-Europe baggage may be performing better, but those DOT statistics about PHL baggage as a whole are pretty negative, and so people who post need to be clear about what they're talking about. Let's be sure to be clear when we post, as when people who post provide advice that isn't correct (such as about getting UA mileage credit in a prior post, and general PHL baggage info), it makes this board less useful.

It's a shame PHL keeps coming up as the main reason to 'hate' US Airways. Since I began working for US 6 years ago, it has massively improved and is now not an unpleasant place to connect through. There may be some residual issues with staff 'attitude', but the baggage issues are now no worse than anywhere else (you can't crucify an airline's reputation based on one - albeit dreadful - baggage crisis. It was years ago, and has not reoccurred) and the new International terminal is very impressive and efficient.

I think some folks would do well to stop criticising PHL out of sheer habit, and take a look at how much the place has improved..

OK, PHL-Europe baggage may be performing better, but those DOT statistics about PHL baggage as a whole are pretty negative, and so people who post need to be clear about what they're talking about. Let's be sure to be clear when we post, as when people who post provide advice that isn't correct (such as about getting UA mileage credit in a prior post, and general PHL baggage info), it makes this board less useful.
I thought that I was pretty clear in my prior post...but I will take another stab at it. In terms of PHL baggage, I'm referring only to O&D domestic operations. I'm also only referring to the past 30 days, so the DOT numbers will not correlate with my experience. In the past 30 days, the baggage situation has seemed to improve. My longest wait has been 25 minutes.
Will this trend hold? Who knows. Will I have to wait an hour next week? No idea. Others on the board seem to be experiencing the same thing. Once again, I can not speak on transfers....I have no idea as to how they are performing in that area.
Jerseyfinn - I agree with your points 100%. One thing that I did notice the other night...while waiting in the baggage area for my bag, the person on the PA system had an extremely nice attitude.
"Welcome to Philadelphia, and have a pleasant day !!!"
"Passengers from SFO, your baggage is now loading onto carousel B and will be available momentarily".
I got the distinct impression that they are trying....

I thought that I was pretty clear in my prior post...but I will take another stab at it. In terms of PHL baggage, I'm referring only to O&D domestic operations. I'm also only referring to the past 30 days, so the DOT numbers will not correlate with my experience. In the past 30 days, the baggage situation has seemed to improve. My longest wait has been 25 minutes.
Will this trend hold? Who knows. Will I have to wait an hour next week? No idea. Others on the board seem to be experiencing the same thing. Once again, I can not speak on transfers....I have no idea as to how they are performing in that area.
Jerseyfinn - I agree with your points 100%. One thing that I did notice the other night...while waiting in the baggage area for my bag, the person on the PA system had an extremely nice attitude.
"Welcome to Philadelphia, and have a pleasant day !!!"
"Passengers from SFO, your baggage is now loading onto carousel B and will be available momentarily".
I got the distinct impression that they are trying....

Virtually no one else is referring to O&D baggage. The people who live in PHL have to fly out of there anyways. Its the ones who have a choice that matter in terms of this discussion.

. . . I know that I will get royally lit up for this statement, but I do think that the PHL problem is seriously over emphasized by many on this board . . .

I hear where you're coming from Phillygold and I mostly agree with you.




I agree. While baggage at PHL is not great, it isn't as abysmal as the chat makes it seem. I fly out of PHL and have had lost bags only twice in >15 yrs...once on UA and once on AA...and I do 99% of my flying on US! Atypical? Probably. But the point is that the others aren't flawless and that the vast majority of bags get where they should.

. . . The airline chose to have a hub in a place that was terrible for conections because of delays. That was their choice and their fault . . .

Gadgetfreak,

I'm going to respectfully disagree with your above comment.

Having said that, I'm also going to add that this is an irrational assertion having no basis in fact and is more of an example of the unfetterd sniping which typifies the anti-US mindset here, all too often peddled as irrefutable fact. Poppycock!

PHL is a city of near 2 million with a metro area of equal size. That it has a large international airport is in keeping with the goals, ambitions, and obligation of scores of metro areas who invest billions in their regional airports. PHL is no different than any of these cities and in that sense is also no better or no worse than other airports ( though it does indeed have a unique persona which is vigorously debated here ). It's time to get off the high horse blame US game and face the fact that every airport has limitations and deficiencies. And PHL does indeed have deficiencies both as an airport located between other metro areas and as an airport owned by a city known for its political mismanagement. Are LAX, ORD, or JFK any different in that respect?

Fact is the US relationship at PHL goes back a long time as Allegheny; something I myself remember as a little kid. US has evolved into something quite different from its Allegheny days. So too has PHL morphed into a lumbering airport which dwarfs the one I remember from several decades ago. So I don't buy into any agrument which assails the US decision to make PHL into its hub. It's a partnership and a necessity engendered by facts and relationships long ago established and maintained to this very day. It all comes down to how the various parties manage the challenges facing them. And we pax, and the attitudes/expectations we carry also shape that paradigm.

Life is indeed about choices both on the personal, corporate, & government end. We who live in this metro area have a choice about who to fly out of PHL. Yet ultimately we are what we are and have to learn to live with it. Unless there's a bankruptcy, US and PHL are stuck with each other and that's the way it's going to be ( unless of course this longshot merger goes through and PHL becomes the DL hub city ). Operational deficiencies do indeed typify PHL at times. But I assure you that there is no intentional collusion on the part of US to make life miserable for travelers at PHL. We do experience better days than others, but that's how life works.

Once again, I offer these words as a response to a trend and a line of argument in this forum. I speak only to comments posted, and not of individuals.

respectfully,

Barry.

Virtually no one else is referring to O&D baggage. The people who live in PHL have to fly out of there anyways. Its the ones who have a choice that matter in terms of this discussion.
Really? Unless you live directly in the city...you do indeed have choices. I'm 45 minutes from PHL, and 70 minutes from EWR. (I live north of the city). If you live south of the city, BWI becomes an option....
So I'd say that I do have a choice in this matter. But I've chosen to stick with this bunch, realizing that Nirvana doesn't exist at any other major NE airport. (I'll leave ABE and others out of this discussion). This year I came thisclose to switching to CO out of EWR. Then after speaking with co-workers and discovering that they almost never get upgraded out of that airport, even as top tier elites....I decided to stay put.

Wirelessly posted (HTC TyTN: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320) Opera 8.60 [en])

. . . The airline chose to have a hub in a place that was terrible for conections because of delays. That was their choice and their fault . . .



Gadgetfreak,



I'm going to respectfully disagree with your above comment.



Having said that, I'm also going to add that this is an irrational assertion having no basis in fact and is more of an example of the unfetterd sniping which typifies the anti-US mindset here, all too often peddled as irrefutable fact. Poppycock!



PHL is a city of near 2 million with a metro area of equal size. That it has a large international airport is in keeping with the goals, ambitions, and obligation of scores of metro areas who invest billions in their regional airports. PHL is no different than any of these cities and in that sense is also no better or no worse than other airports ( though it does indeed have a unique persona which is vigorously debated here ). It's time to get off the high horse blame US game and face the fact that every airport has limitations and deficiencies. And PHL does indeed have deficiencies both as an airport located between other metro areas and as an airport owned by a city known for its political mismanagement. Are LAX, ORD, or JFK any different in that respect?



Fact is the US relationship at PHL goes back a long time as Allegheny; something I myself remember as a little kid. US has evolved into something quite different from its Allegheny days. So too has PHL morphed into a lumbering airport which dwarfs the one I remember from several decades ago. So I don't buy into any agrument which assails the US decision to make PHL into its hub. It's a partnership and a necessity engendered by facts and relationships long ago established and maintained to this very day. It all comes down to how the various parties manage the challenges facing them. And we pax, and the attitudes/expectations we carry also shape that paradigm.



Life is indeed about choices both on the personal, corporate, & government end. We who live in this metro area have a choice about who to fly out of PHL. Yet ultimately we are what we are and have to learn to live with it. Unless there's a bankruptcy, US and PHL are stuck with each other and that's the way it's going to be ( unless of course this longshot merger goes through and PHL becomes the DL hub city ). Operational deficiencies do indeed typify PHL at times. But I assure you that there is no intentional collusion on the part of US to make life miserable for travelers at PHL. We do experience better days than others, but that's how life works.



Once again, I offer these words as a response to a trend and a line of argument in this forum. I speak only to comments posted, and not of individuals.



respectfully,



Barry.

I never said nor implied that there was any plan to inconvenience fliers. As to your other points the articles cited on this thread and elsewhere on the forum coupled with DOT statistics for on time rates, baggage problems and customer complaints are a better source than "poppycock" from either of us.

Let me add that I think the PHL decision and the Christmas 2004 baggage catastrophy is one of the major, if not the main reason US terminally imploded never to recover and was absorbed by HP.

I think it is going to be a very intersting holiday season in PHL and CLT as well. Stayed tumed....

CP+'s get a year's free access to US Lounges. Just another tier.

What's a CP+? I've been a CP for years now, and if you were a CP for at least two years in a row they used to give you lounge access. That's now gone along with roll over miles, etc., etc., etc.

What's a CP+?
Don't think it is an official tier, but those who fly 150 segments or 150,000 miles still get the club free.

I think we need to step back a bit and see where US is heading. Sure there are operational problems, but the real problem (in my mind) is the overall direction of US as a company.

There was an interesting article in Business Week talking about how RyanAir is making money hand over fist. And a full 25% of their tickets are free (just pay taxes and tags). Their goal: give away 100% of their tickets. How can they do that? By advertising and selling. You've got 200+ passengers - a captive audience - in seats that don't recline. You can force them to listen and watch anything. You sell them distractions (games, lottery tickets, goods, you name it) and a bottle of water costs $3.50. Luggage - charge to check it. etc. etc.

That's the model that US wants to achieve. JetBlue has days where their FlyerTalk board doesn't get a single post. US is trying to get there too. Without a frequent flyer program (that's meaningful) with consistantly low fares, without ways to "game" the system, what is there to talk about? It'll be the same, but consistant, low quality service across the board. As exciting as having a chat board about McDonalds. Quite frankly - if you are reading this you are not their target audience.

If you really care about the perks, about first class, about upgrades, about the frequent flyer program - you're looking in the wrong place. US has made no effort in any way to do anything but squeeze money by reducing those perks without reinvesting a cent, and will continue to do so - until they hit RyanAir profitability and service levels.

Does anyone see any evidence that this is wrong? Are there any sacred cows that won't get sacrificed?

US Air sees a separation of the marketplace. But keep in mind its no bowl of cherries over at UA (where I went). They are taking something like 70 business class seats on an international jet and replacing them with 50 lie-flat beds. Cool, right? Except that it'll attact more full-fare business class fliers and that means fewer upgrades. So what we will see is the high end airlines that sell (and maybe turn away) full fare business/first class flyers with few, if any upgrades available, and the RyanAir's (aka. USAir's) models of the world.

I'm not saying USAir decision is bad, it's just not where I want to be. I voted with my feet and wallet like many others. USAir is OK with that, and so am I. We'll see who's right.

I personally do not hate US at all. In fact I have been loyal to US for several years. In fact the first time I made SP and received a pass to upgrade to Envoy cemented the fact that I wanted to continue with US. Mind you this was when Envoy was expectional (Godiva chocolates, great food, etc). I have really enjoyed being a CP this year and am saddened that I won't get to be CP next year, unless I buy $3K worth of flowers. Here are some of the things that I have personally seen or been party that drive perceptions of US not really caring about the service they provide:

1. While seated in Envoy I watched a FA pick all of the cashews out of the nuts before serving them, I mean I personally watched her pick them out and eat them, before serving them to the passengers.

2. Also in Envoy, the FA who did the entire service, and I mean the entire service with one of her earphones in her ear, listening to her Ipod, no kidding.

3. I was trying to fly DCA-CMH, weeks in advance, the fare was over $700.00, to fly in an RJ. I don't even bother looking for this flight any more from US because it is so over priced.

4. The FA in Envoy who moved every one from the second section of Envoy to the more forward section because, and I quote, it was just too much work, walking all the way back there for just a handfull of people.

5. The FA who announced on a flight to Nashville, on an RJ, that due to the short duration of the flight there would be no beverage service then spent the entire flight seated reading a magazine.

6. On a transcon flight in F, I had a vodka/OJ (one mini) and about 45-60 minutes later I had a second (also one mini). About 40 minutes after that she asked if I would like anything else , I asked for another cocktail, mind you I am just sitting there watching my DVD, and she replied in full voice, that she had already served me 2 and that this would be the last drink she would serve me! I was stunned, as I was polite and did not even speak to any one near me, it was as thought she was punishing me and berated me in public. I am 220 pound, 6'2" man and was no where even near drunk. I was moritified. My hunch is that she did not want to get up and serve people.

7. The attitude of many FAs, particularly on shorter flights, of "don't bother me, I am reading my magazine".

8. The Envoy class flight where the menu was literally oversized xerox copies of the menu, the did not even bother to fold to make them even look like a menu. On the same flight the FA walked around with a basket of tooth brushes and ear plugs and said you needed to take what you wanted. So much for the amenity kit.

Now with all that out of the way, I will say that the great experiences have out numbered the bad 5 fold, which is why I have stayed with US. I have been given numerous bottles of wine and the service I have gotten from the CP desk is fantastic. I usually get upgraded, which I like.

Will I stay with US? Hard to say at this point. I am thinking very seriously of jumping ship to Delta or UA. It is hard to remain entusiatic about a company when the people who represent the company are not enthusiatic about their own product.

1. While seated in Envoy I watched a FA pick all of the cashews out of the nuts before serving them, I mean I personally watched her pick them out and eat them, before serving them to the passengers.



For some reason, this really amuses me. I dont think it would have made me mad, even though I love cashews. The comic value far exceeds the value of the nuts.

For some reason, this really amuses me. I dont think it would have made me mad, even though I love cashews. The comic value far exceeds the value of the nuts.

It is definitely amusing now. I should point out that I was not mad, I was more astonished that she would do this in plain sight of the passengers. She even went so far as to shake the tin foil type container they were in to see if she missed any. :)

For some reason, this really amuses me. I dont think it would have made me mad, even though I love cashews. The comic value far exceeds the value of the nuts.
The only thing better would have been if the pax asked the FA "Where are the cashews?" I would love to know what her response would have been !

I will not fly them cause they promote racism.

I will not fly them cause they promote racism.

I'm sorry.. was this a serious comment? If so, it needs some solid information. I have worked for them for almost 6 years now and, as an employee in the UK (where anti-discrimination laws have been in place for many decades), I have been impressed at how the company frequently goes out of its way to promote multiculturalism.

In all those years I have not heard of one single instance of racism. What you're saying is a pretty serious accusation, and I would be really interested to hear how you reached that conclusion.

I find it astonishing that a US Airways employee hasn't heard of the 6 Muslims being thrown off a recent US Airways flight (in the US, where antidiscrimination laws precede those of the UK).

Whether or not that's due to racism is debatable, but that's old news here in the US! Even today's Guardian, the UK paper, has a story about it!

I will not fly them cause they promote racism.

You're kidding right? Do you know how many airlines have done things like this - some justified - some not? If you really believe that I hope you plan to take Greyhound because within a few years you will have axed off every airline on your list. I don't support discrimination but this type of thing - borderline situations especially - are a fact of life to stay.

my old us air story: they took over piedmond -- a very fine airline -- and replaced it with their lousy service.

my new us air story (started a thred on this just now):

i had almost 20,000 miles on us air's program. i rarely fly that airline because i am a regular northwest frequent flyer (with lots of miles on that airline, elite status, etc.). so ok, i don't expect to be treated like royalty on us air, but they basically got rid of my miles because i had not flown in three years (barely -- it was three years and a few months ago).

two emails and one call to customer service got the response i already saw on their site: buy back the miles for 1 cent per mile plus a service fee. nonsense, that's all they are worth!

i told them i would never fly us air again if that was their view, and they don't seem to care. how stupid. i was about to book a flight on us air til they gave me this bit of nonsense.

no wonder ya'll hate them!

8 Seats in First Class on a 757..A reason any FF should hate them! :mad:

That's 8 more than WN has in there fleet :confused:

My distaste for US comes mainly from two places....

1) The poor phone service(from overseas agents) that regular flyers have to deal with.
2) The poor offerings in FC when compared to CO/NW/UA/AA.

Dan

my old us air story: they took over piedmond -- a very fine airline -- and replaced it with their lousy service.

my new us air story (started a thred on this just now):

i had almost 20,000 miles on us air's program. i rarely fly that airline because i am a regular northwest frequent flyer (with lots of miles on that airline, elite status, etc.). so ok, i don't expect to be treated like royalty on us air, but they basically got rid of my miles because i had not flown in three years (barely -- it was three years and a few months ago).

two emails and one call to customer service got the response i already saw on their site: buy back the miles for 1 cent per mile plus a service fee. nonsense, that's all they are worth!

i told them i would never fly us air again if that was their view, and they don't seem to care. how stupid. i was about to book a flight on us air til they gave me this bit of nonsense.

no wonder ya'll hate them!

How is this different from any other airline?

my old us air story: they took over piedmond -- a very fine airline -- and replaced it with their lousy service.

my new us air story (started a thred on this just now):

i had almost 20,000 miles on us air's program. i rarely fly that airline because i am a regular northwest frequent flyer (with lots of miles on that airline, elite status, etc.). so ok, i don't expect to be treated like royalty on us air, but they basically got rid of my miles because i had not flown in three years (barely -- it was three years and a few months ago).

two emails and one call to customer service got the response i already saw on their site: buy back the miles for 1 cent per mile plus a service fee. nonsense, that's all they are worth!

i told them i would never fly us air again if that was their view, and they don't seem to care. how stupid. i was about to book a flight on us air til they gave me this bit of nonsense.

no wonder ya'll hate them!

You were three years too late on booking that flight. You deserve to loose those miles, it is the same every where else. Do you really think anyone is going to sympathize with you?

You were three years too late on booking that flight. You deserve to loose those miles, it is the same every where else. Do you really think anyone is going to sympathize with you?

I do. As I recall they used to advertise that miles never expired. It had some, although small, influence on my chosing them. Or am I mistaken on that?

I don't hate USAirways, however I definitely prefer other airlines when I have the choice. Here are a few reasons why:

1. I feel "nickled and dimed" when flying USAirways. Much more so than flying other airlines. From the FA's hawking credit card applications in the aisle, to the advertising on the tray tables, to the $25 'move up' fee for standby seats, etc. It feels excessive.

2. Most of the seats in coach are very uncomfortable. The cushions are often so worn down, its as if you're sitting directly on the metal.

3. When I recently missed a connection in PHX by just a few minutes (I ran through the airport, the door had just closed, they wouldn't re-open), nothing was automatically rebooked. My experience with other airlines... they would have known I was coming, waited the extra few minutes or at least automatically booked me on the next flight.

There are other reasons, however those are the main ones.

my old us air story: they took over piedmond -- a very fine airline -- and replaced it with their lousy service.

my new us air story (started a thred on this just now):

i had almost 20,000 miles on us air's program. i rarely fly that airline because i am a regular northwest frequent flyer (with lots of miles on that airline, elite status, etc.). so ok, i don't expect to be treated like royalty on us air, but they basically got rid of my miles because i had not flown in three years (barely -- it was three years and a few months ago).

two emails and one call to customer service got the response i already saw on their site: buy back the miles for 1 cent per mile plus a service fee. nonsense, that's all they are worth!

i told them i would never fly us air again if that was their view, and they don't seem to care. how stupid. i was about to book a flight on us air til they gave me this bit of nonsense.

no wonder ya'll hate them!

If you haven't flown an airline in three years, I wonder why you would expect them to regard you as a 'frequent flyer?', when you quite plainly aren't....?

I do. As I recall they used to advertise that miles never expired. It had some, although small, influence on my chosing them. Or am I mistaken on that?

Nope, I remember that too. I think it was in the promotional literature in En Route. Once upon a time.
Kendall

I do. As I recall they used to advertise that miles never expired. It had some, although small, influence on my chosing them. Or am I mistaken on that?

As long as you earn or burn once in 10,000 years, your miles won't expire...earning is as easy as buying something out of the DD Shopping Mall, that takes care of it...no flying necesary (which is a pity indeed)

I did 5 segments with US last week. First flight was canceled (no aircraft): I was put on the next one 5 1/2 hour later (I suspect they merged 2 empty flights, cuz the flight I was on wasn't even half full). Next one was a mechanical. 1 hour late. Third one was delayed 30 minutes to wait for some late arriving passengers (last flight of the day so that was understandable). Next one was 1 hour late. Only my very last segment was close to on-time.

I did 5 segments with US last week. First flight was canceled (no aircraft): I was put on the next one 5 1/2 hour later (I suspect they merged 2 empty flights, cuz the flight I was on wasn't even half full). Next one was a mechanical. 1 hour late. Third one was delayed 30 minutes to wait for some late arriving passengers (last flight of the day so that was understandable). Next one was 1 hour late. Only my very last segment was close to on-time.

Thats the main reason I stopped flying them. But now, seeing the difference between US and AA service I just shake my head in wonderment and a bit of self disdain for taking so long to switch. The comparison is night and day between US and AA. I cant think of one advantage of US. I even had a roundtrip free flight voucher on US that I didnt use because I wouldnt fly them for free.

I grew up on US and stuck with them through two bankrupcies. It was only after the merger that came out with the slogan "The world's first low cost, full service airline". I found them neither low cost nor full service. Almost every decision comes out on the "low cost" at the expense of the "full service" side of the equation. Some of them seems almost mean-spirited:

- the loss of roll-over miles for CP
- the removal of the much loved XOXOs
- the removal of water bottles, only days after liquids are banned

I used to split my airfare between US and UA, making 1K on both for two years. Now I fly almost exclusively on UA, with about 25K on US metal flying only when I absolutely must.

I'm not a US enthusiast and gladly avoid Useless Air if I can. On top of poor customer service (same as UA and AA), and some pretty old planes (767-200 to Europe are a blast from the past, only Northworst could beet them until last month with DC10-30s), I have some safety concerns.
I once flew from CLT to DCA in an emergency exit row. The flight was packed and there were bags everywhere. The emergency exit was blocked by (1) an umbrella, (2) a crouch (meaning the passenger in the window seat had some form of disability - shouldn't be sitting there!), (3) a purse, (4) and a small backpack. The FAs walked by and pretended the cabin was ready for takeoff. Please note that the umbrella and the crouch weren't under the seat in front, they were across the exit door!
On top of that, when the plane was landing and the same items were blocking the exit, the passenger (a US employee!!!) in the window seat in front of the emergency exit had his backrest reclined (I didn't even expect seats in front of exit rows to have recline).
Such a poor discipline came as a bad surprise to me. In Europe, the lower the cost of an airline, the stricter the FAs are in the cabin. On Ryanair (comparable to Southwest in many ways, but no peanuts!) they won't even let you sit in the exit row unless you first verbally confirm to an FA holding those seats that you can speak English, at least 16 y.o., are able and willing to perform... etc.

I don't hate USAirways, however I definitely prefer other airlines when I have the choice. Here are a few reasons why:

1. I feel "nickled and dimed" when flying USAirways. Much more so than flying other airlines. From the FA's hawking credit card applications in the aisle, to the advertising on the tray tables, to the $25 'move up' fee for standby seats, etc. It feels excessive.

2. Most of the seats in coach are very uncomfortable. The cushions are often so worn down, its as if you're sitting directly on the metal.

3. When I recently missed a connection in PHX by just a few minutes (I ran through the airport, the door had just closed, they wouldn't re-open), nothing was automatically rebooked. My experience with other airlines... they would have known I was coming, waited the extra few minutes or at least automatically booked me on the next flight.

There are other reasons, however those are the main ones.

In the post 9/11 days I think they are being creative in increasing revenue. Dont like the 25 dollar fee? Fly the sched YOU purchased. No one is forcing you to take an earlier flight. If they are successful with the cc hawking it will continue and advertising on tray tables just makes me chuckle. I would like to see the tables change advertising every 30 min and be as creative as Superbowl Ads!! There are numerous reasons for closing that door, Im sure the ato didnt know they had closed the door so you had to ask to be rebooked, OK,... I know there are plenty of reasons to dislike an airline but nothing you posted IMHO is something to be upset about. I hope whatever airline you are traveling makes you happier. Regards. Mama

In the post 9/11 days I think they are being creative in increasing revenue. Dont like the 25 dollar fee? Fly the sched YOU purchased. No one is forcing you to take an earlier flight.

Or fly an airline that doesnt charge the fee. Thats really a lot simpler.

I dont hate them in fact i really like flying through CLT, but it is just way more convenient for me to fly Delta.
And as other posters have mentioned I really dont think there is a heck of a lot of difference in any of the legacy carriers

In the post 9/11 days I think they are being creative in increasing revenue. Dont like the 25 dollar fee? Fly the sched YOU purchased. No one is forcing you to take an earlier flight. If they are successful with the cc hawking it will continue and advertising on tray tables just makes me chuckle. I would like to see the tables change advertising every 30 min and be as creative as Superbowl Ads!! There are numerous reasons for closing that door, Im sure the ato didnt know they had closed the door so you had to ask to be rebooked, OK,... I know there are plenty of reasons to dislike an airline but nothing you posted IMHO is something to be upset about. I hope whatever airline you are traveling makes you happier. Regards. Mama

Unfortunately a lot of the high dollar frequent flyers are voting with their feet. I've heard (on this board) that 30% of their CPs have left. Good for the members of the frequent flyer program that are left, but bad for US overall.

6) The constant bombardment of ads. Everything from napkins to seat trays, to the credit card. It comes off as extremely low rent.


This is what bugs me most of all. There are plenty of nice things about US:
They're *A (major bonus), and they generally go where I want within the States. On the routes I fly to/from the States, US has fairly good prices (and were cheapest back in the days when my most frequent flight was BOS-SJU). On the MAN-PHL route, the plane and service is better than LH or UA, which are my other cheap choices (though I do like LH's cheese sandwiches on short flights). I've never had a bad experience with their customer service, and I think the "chat with an agent" feature is great.

However, I do object, having paid my fare out of pocket, to constantly hearing the FA talking up the credit card and the duty free (and then the credit card again) and the DM program and then back to the credit card. I don't *want* another card. I'm a Silver (ok, fine, I'm only a lowly Silver), but I'm well aware of all the other ways I could be earning bazillions of miles. Only... I don't really spend my miles. My Silver status has only netted me two upgrades (one, oddly enough, on BA), but I'd like to think that being a FF (plus being nice) helps me get empty seats near me on long flights. Last time I was the only one in coach who got a row of 5 to myself on a 2/3 full flight.

I travel for work, and I travel because I like to. I don't travel because I want to hear or see adverts for the duration of a flight. If I did, I'd fly a LCC-- and it pains me to see that that's what US wants to be.

I'm on your plane already, what makes you think I don't know what airline I'm flying? Sheesh!

I'm likely to switch to another *A program for next year, but I'm not expecting a whole lot better.

Unfortunately a lot of the high dollar frequent flyers are voting with their feet. I've heard (on this board) that 30% of their CPs have left. Good for the members of the frequent flyer program that are left, but bad for US overall.

Im a recent convert to AA after years on US as a CP and UA as a 1K. I also qualified as a 1K last year but I dont know if I will this year. After three years as a Plat on AA and now as an EXP the only reason I can think of to fly US instead of AA if you fly 100K miles or 100 segments a year is that there are never any planes with "American" written on the sides at the airport near you. Except for very major scheduling issues it is an absolute no brainer in my opinion.

Unfortunately a lot of the high dollar frequent flyers are voting with their feet. I've heard (on this board) that 30% of their CPs have left. Good for the members of the frequent flyer program that are left, but bad for US overall.

If indeed 30 percent of CPs have left, I dont know who made up that stat, than revenue will show and maybe policies will change. If at that point, policies change maybe the CP's will return. I also heard about Rod Steward and stomach substances years ago..... LOL

Hi PHXMAMA, welcome to FT, nice to see you made it here.

1. I feel "nickled and dimed" when flying USAirways. Much more so than flying other airlines. From the FA's hawking credit card applications in the aisle, to the advertising on the tray tables, to the $25 'move up' fee for standby seats, etc. It feels excessive.



I just signed up for the credit card, but made a point of doing it online rather than on the plane. I'll forego the 500 bonus miles to not help their statistics regarding number of successful in-flight credit apps.

I just signed up for the credit card, but made a point of doing it online rather than on the plane. I'll forego the 500 bonus miles to not help their statistics regarding number of successful in-flight credit apps.

The FAs get a kick-back for getting people signed up on the plane. That's why it's one of the only consistent service offerings you can expect from US FAs.

Or fly an airline that doesn't charge the fee. Thats really a lot simpler.

Bingo, we have a winner.

Hi PHXMAMA, welcome to FT, nice to see you made it here.

Thanks, Im just hoping you dont regret it! Regards, Mama

If indeed 30 percent of CPs have left, I dont know who made up that stat, than revenue will show and maybe policies will change. If at that point, policies change maybe the CP's will return. I also heard about Rod Steward and stomach substances years ago..... LOL

Not necessarily. There is a general upturn in the industry going on and in general it is quite cyclical. It may not show up until the next economic downturn for instance since it is buried by other market factors.

With mergers there are always some problems / changes.

If indeed 30 percent of CPs have left, I dont know who made up that stat, than revenue will show and maybe policies will change...

Welcome to Flyertalk, PhxMama

The 30% figure, I believe, was provided by a long-time poster here whose sources and opinions I respect. Not necessarily gloom and doom for US, though. Look at it the other way - a majority 70% of CPs have elected to stay :) Many of us may be in captive markets. "The bottom line" is what prompts Tempe to change, and while they're riding high with record profits, I doubt we would soon see many changes FFs would like.

Hi PHXMAMA, welcome to FT, nice to see you made it here.

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^ ^

Thanks for the Warm Welcome! You guys are the best!!!^

Welcome to Flyertalk, PhxMama

The 30% figure, I believe, was provided by a long-time poster here whose sources and opinions I respect. Not necessarily gloom and doom for US, though. Look at it the other way - a majority 70% of CPs have elected to stay :) Many of us may be in captive markets. "The bottom line" is what prompts Tempe to change, and while they're riding high with record profits, I doubt we would soon see many changes FFs would like.

You're right about Tempe not realizing the impact of their decisions due to profits in the industry . As you know I am new to this board and dont know to whom you are referring. Does he work for US? Im just not one to buy into stats until the source and techniques used can be verified. You know 4 out of 5 dentists use Crest! I know, a little cynical but facts get twisted to meet a persons needs(wants or desires). Lets hope a happy medium can be found between preferred travelers and US. There are really good people in both groups and yes, some former HP employees rock too! Regards, Mama

... As you know I am new to this board and dont know to whom you are referring...

This thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6983746#post6983746) is where the estimate originally surfaced. You are correct not to trust everything you read on a BB :) . As for me, I've been on here long enough, and have met a number of the posters here, to know how valid their information is. The exact number is really beside the point, though. We can somewhat guess that the Elite numbers are down, and Tempe did something like the (Almost) Everything Counts promo to shore the numbers up.

This thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6983746#post6983746) is where the estimate originally surfaced. You are correct not to trust everything you read on a BB :) . As for me, I've been on here long enough, and have met a number of the posters here, to know how valid their information is. The exact number is really beside the point, though. We can somewhat guess that the Elite numbers are down, and Tempe did something like the (Almost) Everything Counts promo to shore the numbers up.

I hadnt seen that thread. While the source of the info on that thread is someone who frequently mocks my, well, predilictions as it were, he is someone who I have known on this board for many, many years and trust absolutely.

Why I only fly USAir to one or two locations:

1. USAir charges more to fly into smaller locations than discounters who provide cleaner planes and more consistent gate experiences.

2. Classically US planes all seemed to have a grimly film of human grease on everything, although my latest experience (two weeks ago PHX->BOS) didn't.

3. What's with the 5 minutes of marketing 5 minutes after takeoff? These messages are all the same for at least the last 6 months. If I few US as often as I fly UA, I'd be on the verge of looking for another airline just to avoid that barrage.

4. Over the years, I've had a number of things go wrong while on the road, but for a long time US incidents seemed to occur with more regular frequencies than other airlines (this strangely also seemed to coincide with bad Hilton experiences as well !?!) On my last flight, the computer couldn't find my reservation at check in, but once a human found it and once I made to the gate, the gate agent was terrific about getting me out of a middle seat into an exit row aisle showing that even though the airline's technology might need serious improvement, at least there are few good people working there.

Why I only fly USAir to one or two locations:

1. USAir charges more to fly into smaller locations than discounters who provide cleaner planes and more consistent gate experiences.

2. Classically US planes all seemed to have a grimly film of human grease on everything, although my latest experience (two weeks ago PHX->BOS) didn't.

3. What's with the 5 minutes of marketing 5 minutes after takeoff? These messages are all the same for at least the last 6 months. If I few US as often as I fly UA, I'd be on the verge of looking for another airline just to avoid that barrage.

4. Over the years, I've had a number of things go wrong while on the road, but for a long time US incidents seemed to occur with more regular frequencies than other airlines (this strangely also seemed to coincide with bad Hilton experiences as well !?!) On my last flight, the computer couldn't find my reservation at check in, but once a human found it and once I made to the gate, the gate agent was terrific about getting me out of a middle seat into an exit row aisle showing that even though the airline's technology might need serious improvement, at least there are few good people working there.

These are what I find valid reasons for flying another airline. Lower fares and cleaner planes. The marketing to me is like trailers when I go to the movies, annoying, but they dont stop me from going. Some of what has been happening at checkin is due to the2 different sytems. After integration things should settle down and those things shouldnt happen. Im glad that the gate agent was able to help, Maybe US customer service shines after all. Regards, Mama

These are what I find valid reasons for flying another airline. Lower fares and cleaner planes.

Very true when the system is running smoothly. However...someone on my staff flew a non-legacy carrier which shall remain nameless this past weekend from LAX-BOS. They experienced a mechanical, and due to the fact that said carrier does not interline with other carriers, it took her a full 24 hours to get home! My skin was crawling as she related the events to me. I guess you just have to be willing to roll with the punches in return for a rational fare, a clean plane...and a website that works. It shouldn't have to be that way. :rolleyes:

Very true when the system is running smoothly. However...someone on my staff flew a non-legacy carrier which shall remain nameless this past weekend from LAX-BOS. They experienced a mechanical, and due to the fact that said carrier does not interline with other carriers, it took her a full 24 hours to get home! My skin was crawling as she related the events to me. I guess you just have to be willing to roll with the punches in return for a rational fare, a clean plane...and a website that works. It shouldn't have to be that way. :rolleyes:

Im sorry to hear that your coworker had a miserable trvl experience. Sometimes flying a legacy can be a disaster so this doesnt mean this is a bad airline. I think every carrier has had someone have just the nighmare of a lifetime when trlving with them. It happens. Hopefully, the customer relations people can compensate the customer in some way. I know its not supposed to be that way. With all the TSA restrictions and checkpoints airlines have got to step up the customer service to help make the trvl experience. Lets hope Tempe understands some of these and its just going to take time to get things straightened out. These were 2 large companies merging into one. Most that have gone thru mergers understand the pain involved. One thing is for sure you are right! Things shouldnt be this way! Mama

I have to further comment on the ADS! :)

Wow... US AIRWAYS advertises on, video screen, magazine, tray tables (in coach), napkins, "air sickness bags", inserts in seat pockets, and over the PA. I am so sick of being asked to make a financial decision by miles for Visa.. ackkk.. stop it already...

I know the new uniforms are coming, a very nice East Flight attendant is wondering if there will be a spot onthe back of thier jackets/shirts for advertisemetns...

I am wondering where there are not ads on teh over head bins.. could be like a NYC subway.....

I have to further comment on the ADS! :)

Wow... US AIRWAYS advertises on, video screen, magazine, tray tables (in coach), napkins, "air sickness bags", inserts in seat pockets, and over the PA. I am so sick of being asked to make a financial decision by miles for Visa.. ackkk.. stop it already...

I know the new uniforms are coming, a very nice East Flight attendant is wondering if there will be a spot onthe back of thier jackets/shirts for advertisemetns...

I am wondering where there are not ads on teh over head bins.. could be like a NYC subway.....

The new uni's will look something like this. (http://www.theautochannel.com/callahan/99brick/scans/rudd_uniform.jpg)

The new uni's will look something like this. (http://www.theautochannel.com/callahan/99brick/scans/rudd_uniform.jpg)



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Seriously though, the advertising has gone beyond tacky. If they want to charge the same price (or often more) than the competition, then give me a similar experience - or, since that seems unlikely, at least get rid of the credit card arm-twisting experiences. Boo to those :td: :td: :td: .

I have to imagine the FAs don't find it all that great of an experience, even if they do stand to earn some cash for signing people up.

Are there any other legacy or low-cost carriers doing the ridiculous amount of onboard paid advertising that US does?

I read an article on where Ryan Air was headed. They are the ultimate in low cost airlines. They sell a full 1/4 of their seats for 1 pound (about US$2) plus tax and tags - with a goal to sell all of their seats for 1 pound. Their seats don't recline, window shades don't close (less time on the turn around), and no seat pocket (to fill up with junk). And you you pay for everything. Check a bag, pay for it. Want a glass of water, pay for it. Plus advertising everywhere. After all, where else do you get approximately 200 people held captive for hours on end?

Unfortunately, I think this is where LCCs in general are heading. If US considers themselves a LCC - expect the worse. So far, I've seen no reason to believe that US is planning anything else. I've been pleading for a while on this board to less us know what the end vision is. What's sacred and what's expendable. Is FC going away completely? Or, since they aren't getting enough full fare FC passenagers paying for a substandard product, can they make FC pay for itself by squeezing it's members and charging for upgrades? How about meals, drinks, lounges, etc., etc..? This is really just death by a thousand cuts. US should just come out and say their plans - not just keep disappointing everyone day after day, year after year with their cuts.

Man, I'm glad I read this thread. My wife and I are moving to LAS from ORD and we were considering switching over to US/DM, but now I'm not so sure. She's a UA 1K, I'm 1P. Maybe it will be worth it to layover in LAX/SFO rather than fly the US metal direct.

I flew US Air for 10 years out of necessity as they were the dominant carrier serving my destinations on the east coast. Planes small and cramped, terrible customer service. Clincher was when someone (assuming mistakenly) took my carry on off the plane and left theirs. So I'm standing there with an hour for connection and someone elses bag. Fortunately that bag was checked airside on a previous flight and could have been easy for USAir to find the owner and get my bag back. Instead of trying to contact the owner or looking in the bag, they didn't do a damn thing, took the bag and said 'we'll call you.' Had over $600 in clothes in my bag. Of course I never heard from US Air. Fortunately Southwest came to ORF a few months later and I didn't have to suffer any longer.

Man, I'm glad I read this thread. My wife and I are moving to LAS from ORD and we were considering switching over to US/DM, but now I'm not so sure. She's a UA 1K, I'm 1P. Maybe it will be worth it to layover in LAX/SFO rather than fly the US metal direct.

I know I will get flack for this posting, bu