I have never flown El Al, and probably won't have the opportunity to anytime soon. I have, however, heard all sorts of "stories" about security on El Al. Would anyone with first hand knowledge care to respond to some of them? Thanks!

1. El Al has plain clothed armed guards on all flights.

2. El Al carries their own x-ray machine on the plane and uses it in foreign countries.

3. El Al does not announce departure or arrival gates. (How would that work?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif )

4. El Al flights make unscheduled stops on a regular basis. (Is this true? Would it affect security?)

I Know you posted this message some time ago but if your still interested here are the answers to your questions

1. El Al has plain clothed armed guards on all flights.?

>>Yes they do, On small bodied aircraft (737,757) they have 1-2 depending on the length of the flight. On wide bodied aircraft (767, 777, 747) they have between 3-5 and they are plained clothed.

2. El Al carries their own x-ray machine on the plane and uses it in foreign countries.

>> The answer is NO. But after you check-in and your bags go through the check-in desk they are removed from the conveyor behind the scenes and put through a secondary x-ray scanning machine, to take a closer look at the bags, Hence the 3 hour check-in period mandatory on all ELAL flights.

3. El Al does not announce departure or arrival gates. (How would that work?!)

>>Not true, i'm not sure where you heard this from.

4. El Al flights make unscheduled stops on a regular basis. (Is this true? Would it affect security?)

>> Never, and for that exact reason. They would not be able to because of the security issue.

I hope this answers some of your questions. Go visit www.elal.com (http://www.elal.com) to take a closer look at the airline and its security.

NB: the recent WTC problems that actioned the new regulations for the FAA to introduce the new security charter was taken from the ELAL security Charter..if a little skimmed down not to give too much away.

EL AL flights are announced like everyone elses. When you check in they ask TONS OF QUESTIONS. Can be kept for as long as 15 minutes +. If you connect from another airline you still have the bag checked again. They do not make unscheduled landings.

I really do not think specific security questions should be answered on this site.

------------------
speedbird001

Time, september 24, 2001

Israel's El Al Airline

Is this what we really want?

BY LISA BEYER

Grasping for a model of how to better protect against terrorist hijackings, some
commentators are suggesting that the U.S. adopt Israel's practices. That system has
worked pretty well, especially given what an attractive target Israel's airports and
airline are to terrorists. Ben Gurion Airport, near Tel Aviv, Israel's only international
airport, has an enviable record. No flight out of there has ever been
commandeered. A 1974 TWA flight originating in Tel Aviv was blown up, but only
after taking on passengers in Athens. Only once, in 1968, was the national carrier,
El Al, successfully hijacked.

How do the Israelis do it? For one thing, El Al puts at least one armed, plainclothes
sky marshal on all its flights. One such agent foiled a hijack attempt over Holland in
1970. During El Al flights, the cockpit door, made of reinforced steel strong
enough to repel fire from a handgun, remains locked.

On the ground, the Israelis not only use the standard metal detectors and X-ray
machines but also lean on teams of young agents, dressed in blue slacks and white
shirts, who interrogate, to varying degrees, every passenger departing Ben Gurion
and, in airports abroad, anyone flying El Al. The questions can include: "When did
you book this flight?" "Who paid for the ticket?" "Why are you traveling?" "Whom
did you meet while in Israel?" Business travelers are asked for documents proving
they actually are pursuing a particular deal. Journalists are asked to reveal the
stories they are going to cover. One agent will ask questions for a while, then a
second will ask many of the same. The two will compare notes, and one or the
other will ask a third batch of queries. This process often takes 20 minutes; it can
take two hours.

The idea is to turn up inconsistencies in a terrorist's made-up story (or at least rattle
him into a panic) and also expose individuals who may be unknowing accomplices.
In 1986, El Al security at London's Heathrow airport discovered a bomb sewn into
the suitcase of an unwitting Irish woman after she revealed that she had had a
romance with a Jordanian, who had bought her the bag.

Even to innocents, the interrogation is unsettling. It entails a violation of privacy that
most Americans would find objectionable. Beyond that, the system requires a
degree of ethnic profiling that would be viewed here as bigoted. Even with the
moderate traffic at Ben Gurion, the Israelis can't grill everyone at length. So Israeli
Jews get only pro forma questions like "Who packed your bag?" Foreign Jews get
a relatively light going over. Foreign Gentiles get half an hour or so. And Arabs,
including Arab citizens of Israel, get a full inquisition.

They actually don't annouce the gates. The plane is kept on the taxi way far away from the gate. A travelor will not know what gate to board at until moments before boarding. Then once annouced, there is a amd rush to the gate. It is pretty fun, it is like a big race.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by juammer:
A travelor will not know what gate to board at until moments before boarding. Then once annouced, there is a amd rush to the gate. It is pretty fun, it is like a big race. </font>


This is not exactly true.
In most airports ElAl and other airlines flying to Israel usualy have their own gates with enhanced security equipment. In some airports they don't let you approach that gate until about an hour before departure.
In some airport (like in Germany) they have a special section in the airport for flight to TLV and once you enter the door to the check-in you are isolated from the rest of the airport.
In most airports the ElAl plane will indeed be separated and stand on a parking spot not connected to a jetway. In TLV there are no jetways but in the new terminal 3 which is being built there will be.

Tip for shortening the questioning time in TLV - If you are visiting relatives or on a business trip bring the person you are visiting with you to the airport when you depart and have him/her positively identify that he/she knows you and your reason of coming to Israel. This shortens the questioning by far.

Incorrect. El Al flights are at the Gate like all other airlines. About 10 years ago they would keep them far away and u had to take a bus. I just flew from Zurich and JFK and we left like everybody else from regular gaters.

Apirchik thanks for the tip. When I fly EL AL they keep me for at least 20 minutes.

Speedbird I agree with you. We should not really be discussing this.

Shalom all. I haven't yet flown ELAL, but I like it and want to try it someday.

I am not sure if I could honestly deal with 20 minutes of questioning. When I fly back to the US from Europe I have almost lost my patience with some of the ridiculous questioning. They are usually not American
and are annoying, asking the same questions over and over. I wish that the airlines would do more to profile, i.e. an American Airlines Platinum with a good traveling background, good passenger for many years, is not a threat, more so if a US citizen. I know, sounds basic, but profiling is important, weed out those who are not troublemakers.

I hate to say it but I will http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif. ELAL is right to question Arabs more, sorry, and there are some very nice, honest, good Arabs. The hijackers from 9/11 as well as most terrorist incidents are Arabs. To go and question people forever at the airport seems absurd.

I want to fly ELAL someday, just will have to brave the questioning which I find to be personal. I do understand that the security is not so stressful on other airlines flying to Israel, which is good, though within Israel, it is supposed to be similar to LY.

------------------
MD
AA PLT,1 MLN Miles+
Hilton Gold
Sheraton Gold

Oh, and I have seen both as to ELAL planes at the gate and parked away. At LAX, it usually seems to be parked in the remote areas, which ironically can actually be more of a threat from the areas around the airport. Highway goes right by there.

At Zurich it parks at a regular gate and we can get close to it on the observation deck, while as someone said in Germany, and certainly in Frankfurt, they leave from separate gates and I wouldn't want to leave from there. I was taking pics of planes and caught the LY 757, surrounded by German police and armed guards, a tank, and to say the least they didn't like it. I think pics of any other plane is ok. Interesting.

I am assuming any pics of anything, any plane, any entity at Ben Gurion is out!
Would that be true? thanks, toda.

------------------
MD
AA PLT,1 MLN Miles+
Hilton Gold
Sheraton Gold

Should we be discussing El Al security?

An excellent question! The best answer: a speaker for El Quada said that terrorists never contemplated Anthrax as a weapon until it got so much press in October.

An interesting post on another board discussed whether it was proper to go up to someone on a flight you think is a "security officer" and thank them.

The answer to that, of course, was the picture of terrorists throwing the lifeless body of an American soldier out of the front door of a highjacked plane a few years ago.

So please, grow up! The game you are playing is dangerous indeed. You might be the winner of the dubious distinction of triggering an idea that will lead to yet another airline splattered across the earth.

BTW, my son is in Jerusalem right now, returning this weekend. I'm glad he is flying El Al.

After seeing some of the replies on this board since my original reply i undersatnd that we really shouldn't compromise elal's security.

The plane truth is, if your are flying on ther airline as a means of travel to a destination you have nothing to worry about.

If you are using the airline for other purposes then you have something to worry about.

------------------
AMEX PL, DC, Hilton Gold, BA Silver, LHW Member, CO Elite, EL AL Platinum

I understand some people's concerns about discussing security. I, however, don't see it as quite the threat that some of y'all do.

For starters, we aren't discussing any particulars such as On Friday Jan XX, Flight XX from XXX will have X guards on board seated in XX, XX, XX, and XX. This is simply a general discussion about security on El Al. (The folks who are known worldwide to do it the right way.)

Also, all of the information discussed/revealed in this thread is clearly "public domain." If anyone were so inclined they could go to any public airport and see for themselves the habits of gate announcements, and positions of parked planes.

It would also be simple enough to fly El Al a few times to see what the questioning and security is like for yourself.

Anyone (including a terrorist) could do this. I would suppose that any terrorist worth his/her salt wouldn't try to "get a piece of El Al" in the first place, but if they were going to, they would obviously scout it all out first hand.

So I don't think this discussion is compromising the security of El Al in any way, shape or form.

And there was a published report that the "shoe-bomber" had recently scouted out an El Al flight, and been seated next to an air marshall in the back of the plane as a result (was that ever corroborated?)

So I agree with you, that bad people are going to do their own scouting, but you have to admit that having an army of people who are reporting things like "when I flew TLV-JFK in November, they didn't open my luggage", or "as soon as I told them that my daughter studies at Hebrew U, the questioning seemed to go faster" (I'm just making these up) could make their scouting job easier. And, what's worse, on some of the domestic boards, I have gathered enough information that I could probably identify the air marshall on DCA flights based on what I've read here (despite the fact that I've never been on a DCA flight since 9/11). The goal is to make terrorists have to actually fly and do their own intelligence gathering - don't make it easier for them. It's a fine line, as we all want to report on our experiences in order to help our fellow freq. travelers have an easier or more interesting experience.

Interesting to read responses that both agreed with me as well as those that disagreed.

The biggest job of Intelligence is to put together jigsaw puzzles. The pieces come in from all over the world, and contribute to creating a complete picture.

We do it all the time in business, whether it is the "pizza factor" (how many late night orders are there) or if a company is suddenly reassigning people from one project to another. Military intelligence is no different. It is the tiny pieces that are offered up for free that are the most costly.

We fly ElAL because we want our money to go there, or because we believe in the security. In this case, our security is in our own hands.

"So I don't think this discussion is compromising the security of El Al in any way, shape or form. "

Thanks East/West, fully agree. I was sad to see people's comments that we shouldn't be discussing this stuff... I have seen so much on the tv news about ELAL, from Israeli movies and tv(showing incredible pics inside Ben Gurion that I never thought would be allowed), and so there is plenty of info out there in the public domain. (The Arabs can watch IBC-Israeli tv, I can assure you).

The idea of the boards is for people to be able to come here and chat, share our love for aviation and travel, and ask questions.

I don't like it when someone, and there is always one!, goes off how we shouldn't be discussing something.

I know things that I won't repeat, too sensitive. I knew an LY flight attendant who told me lot's of things, but I feel that we can discuss a little about flying ELAL, the security(very basic), Frequent Flier club, etc... If you write obnoxious things like that, it will just turn people away and turn people off from learning about ELAL. More so from wanting to fly them. Who wants to fly an airline that does things in secret? Get real.

At Helsinki I saw them check in, all in the open, very above board, gave me confidence... but then Heathrow and Paris can be very secretive, don't like that.

When we fly US airlines we have a security issue, though I would have these (idiots) check Americans with a little less strictness, if felt bonafide travelers. I know that is the case with ELAL, Israelis get away with much more. My friend told me that, then kept quiet.

As an American Platinum, we discuss everything under the sun about AA and it is our right. The terrorists know more than we do, I am sure, and are not learning anything from these boards. They do their own research, have inside people(one theory of 9-11 is that airline or airport employees gave them weapons, which was also the case on the TWA out of Athens), and they are scum http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

Let's help each other and answer questions.
Then when everyone visits other airline boards, which I encourage you to do, as I will be posting many on the trip reports, then we will help you.



------------------
MD
AA PLT,1 MLN Miles+
Hilton Gold
Sheraton Gold

The questioning is no big deal whatsoever. The interviewers are very smart young Israelis. In fact it's fun and interesting and the time whizzzzes by!