I'll be joining my parents in Tokyo and Osaka for our next family holiday in February. We're spending 5 days/4 nights in Osaka, and 7 days/6 nights in Tokyo. Hotel rooms have been booked at both the Westin Osaka and the Intercontinental Tokyo Bay (had to compromise with them as I'm with SPG while they're PC/Ambassador - plus they're paying :p ).

So can anyone come up with ideas on what to do in both cities for an itinerary as above? We've never been to Japan before, other than 2 hours in transit at NRT.

Specifically, we're interested in good food, shopping (Mum), and great nightlife (me). The threads I've read on this has given me some insight but I'd love to have some idea of the 'must sees' and 'must dos'.

We'd also be interested in exploring surrounding areas and Mum is insisting on examining Mt Fuji...
Oh and none of us speak Japanese...:(

However here are some suggestions:

Things to do in Osaka (recommend visiting places such as Kyoto, Nara, Himeji from Osaka):

First time in Osaka (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=480881)

Visiting Osaka, advice on KIX to Hilton and things to do/see? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=599326)

Questions About Nara (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=550509)

Extra Day in Osaka--Nara or Himeji Castle? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=542614)

Things to do in Tokyo (and places around Tokyo):
5 Days in Tokyo (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=493289)

locations in tokyo (post #5) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513808 )

Request for help with Tokyo Itinerary in October (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=594324)

Need help planning first trip to Japan with two children (7&4) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598505)

Yokohama (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=608295)

Great deal gourmet lunches (tokyo) (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468207)

Thats only the tip of the iceburg, each place (and areas) of Japan have different things to do for different types of people.

Maps / Good Guide Books on Osaka / Kyoto (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=581131)

Ooh thanks so much. :)
Will slowly look through the threads and compile a list of things to do I guess. The reason I asked was because I found it all very overwhelming and hard to fit into a relatively short (?) itinerary.



(recommend visiting places such as Kyoto, Nara, Himeji from Osaka)

And are these places doable on day trips?

Ooh thanks so much. :)
Will slowly look through the threads and compile a list of things to do I guess. The reason I asked was because I found it all very overwhelming and hard to fit into a relatively short (?) itinerary.



And are these places doable on day trips?

Yes, all of these places are doable on day trips.

I tell all first-timers visiting Japan that they need to buy and read at least one guidebook. After all, they're paying thousands of dollars for their trip, and the purchase of one guidebook for $30 or less will provide great benefits for the cost. Only YOU know what will appeal to you, and I've often had the experience when traveling abroad of enjoying something off the beaten tourist path that perhaps would not have appealed to most people but would appeal to me, and I wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't read about it.

In addition, every guidebook takes care of the FAQs that turn up on travel boards, such as "How do I get from the airport to the city?" and "What does the Japan Rail Pass cover?"

A couple of publishers, including Lonely Planet, Rough Guide, Frommers, and Insight Guides, publish separate volumes for Tokyo and Kyoto. I highly recommend getting a book for each city, since Kyoto and Osaka are very close together, and the suggestions for sightseeing and daytrips will overlap a lot.

...And are these places doable on day trips?
You can help us help you by providing a bit more information. How are you arriving in Japan? Where? Have you looked into the Japan Rail Pass?

If you are going to Osaka-Kansai area first and then on to Tokyo, it is often a good idea to fly into Kansai International (KIX) outside of Osaka and then fly out of New Tokyo International (NRT). If you can do that, you can eliminate a 3+ hour, rather expensive train trip back to where you started from. If that is not possible and you must fly in/out using the same airport, it complicates your domestic travel a bit, although not impossibly. You just have to plan for the extra travel.

For 5 days in Osaka, you are definitely going to have to look outside of town for things to see and do. Kyoto is less than an hour away by rail, as is Nara. Kyoto is the jewel and is worth 2 or 3 days by itself if you can afford the time. Frankly, I prefer to stay in Kyoto and leave Osaka for a day trip or two, but it seems that your stays are already set. Nara is worth a full day if you decide to go there. Himeji is not much more than an hour from Osaka on the shinkansen and makes a very nice day trip, even in the cold of February. When you are ready to move on to Tokyo, the shinkansen is under 3 hours if you do not have a Rail Pass and about 3 1/4 hours if you use the Pass, which limits which trains you can use.

If you are going to use the Japan Rail Pass, you will want to plan the days it is activated for to cover your longest, most expensive rail travel. Perhaps start the 7 day pass upon arrival, use it for day trips from Osaka and the long trip to Tokyo, then pay out of pocket for the train to the airport on your way out of Japan. Just be sure to activate the pass to include travel on the shinkansen and any extensive travel days.

Keep in mind that early February is still winter in Japan so some things, like climbing Fuji-san may not be possible. I'm also unsure about a visit to Nikko from Tokyo, although not sure if it would be a problem or not. Japan is certainly not the arctic, but plan for cooler temperatures at that time of year.

Most of your questions have been covered many times here. Spend a little time scanning the forum and then post again with some specifics and you will get lots of help.

JR

Right...I guess the guidebooks are a good idea.

I'm flying into KIX Airport. Then getting to Tokyo by flying between Itami and Haneda Airports. Finally, I'm flying out of NRT.

Actually, the Osaka stay is not set yet as the booking is flexible. Is Kyoto a better base then?

Right...I guess the guidebooks are a good idea.

I'm flying into KIX Airport. Then getting to Tokyo by flying between Itami and Haneda Airports. Finally, I'm flying out of NRT.

Actually, the Osaka stay is not set yet as the booking is flexible. Is Kyoto a better base then?
Absolutely on the guidebook! I like Frommer's, but others have their favorites and there are several very good ones. I like those that have good, clear walking maps, but there are other things to look for. Take a trip to a large, complete bookstore and browse the choices.

For your travel method, I think Kyoto makes more sense for a Kansai base, but I am well known around here as a "Kyoto-phile." :D You will probably get a dissenting opinion on this question from some of the other posters. Itami is a easy limobus ride from Kyoto and most folks will spend more time exploring Kyoto than the commercial center of Osaka. JMHO. As indicated, the train ride between the two is not long. Nara, Himeji, Kobe and Osaka are all easily accessible from Kyoto Station.

I'm thinking that for you, the Japan Rail Pass would not be very good value as you are not really doing enough longer rail trips to make it worth the expense. You will probably want to use the Haruka Express from KIX to Osaka or Kyoto, local trains around the Kansai area, local subways or buses in Kyoto and Osaka, perhaps a short shinkansen ride to Himeji if you decide to go there and then local subways/trains in Tokyo and the train out to NRT on the way home. Probably not worth paying for the Pass.

JR

Personally I'd spend 2 nights in Kyoto and 2 in Osaka. That way you won't have to mess around with day trips to Nara or Himeji (which, at least for Himeji, isn't worth it).

Personally I'd spend 2 nights in Kyoto and 2 in Osaka. That way you won't have to mess around with day trips to Nara or Himeji (which, at least for Himeji, isn't worth it).

I don't follow your logic.

Kyoto and Osaka are very close - you can easily set up base in one and make a trip to visit the other. I wouldn't want to bother moving hotels from Kyoto to Osaka.

I see no advantage to moving accommodation from Osaka to Kyoto (or vice versa) in the middle of a four day Kansai visit.

As for Nara and Himeji - Do you mean that you would not bother visiting those places as part of a four-day visit to the area? Of course, I understand that any time that you spend in Nara or Himeji is time that you're not spending in Kyoto or Osaka. But there really isn't much "messing around" if you want to do a day trip to either of those places - They are easily accessible from Osaka or Kyoto - good day trips.

Thank you one and all for the insight. :)
I've consulted my parents and we're going to split the Kansai stay into both Osaka and Kyoto (2 nights each). They like a hotel to be based at and run back to in the middle of the day for resting/put down shopping, and don't quite like the idea of being 'stuck' on a daytrip.

Off to get some guidebooks...:)

3 things in Osaka near your hotel.

Goto the top of Umeda Sky building to watch the sunset.

Goto Yodobashi Camera and the mall connected to it.

Goto Hanshin food hall in the basement.

+ all the other advice of Nara, Kyoto, Himeji, and Kobe etc.

I would lean towards Nara/Kyoto and if you have time Kobe.

Just returned from my first Japan trip. I agree jib71 on not to split hotels when in Kansai. As a base, Kyoto is more appealing (at least, for sightseeing).

As a day-trip (if needed, because I think 3-day Kyoto and 1-day Osaka is ok), Nara is at top (avoid weekends!).

Himeji, as said before in this forum, could be a half-day trip for serious castle fans (but, as iconography, Osaka Castle could be enough)

There is also posts on best guidebooks. As a complement, I recommend a visit to the Japan National Tourist Organization website. It publishes some PDF booklets about main Japan main attractions (link) (http://www.jnto.go.jp/eng/location/rtg/index.html). They can help you on planning day routes in Kyoto, Osaka and Nara (I used them and they were really useful) (I also used Lonely Planet guide, rich in practical tips)

Also agree with abmj-jr on consider a 7-day Japan Rail Pass in Kansai visit. Osaka Station could be only a 25 minutes journey from Kyoto Station (5 minutes from Osaka to Shin-Osaka in any train plus 20 min from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto in Shinkansen)

...Also agree with abmj-jr on consider a 7-day Japan Rail Pass in Kansai visit. Osaka Station could be only a 25 minutes journey from Kyoto Station (5 minutes from Osaka to Shin-Osaka in any train plus 20 min from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto in Shinkansen)
Well, thanks for agreeing, but I need to clarify - I did not recommend the shinkansen for travel from Shin-Osaka to/from Kyoto. The Haruka deluxe is cheaper and more comfortable and the local trains are MUCH cheaper. I also do not think the JR Rail Pass is a good investment for the OP since they will not be traveling by train from Kyoto/Osaka to Tokyo. They are flying. The rail pass does not make much economic sense for local trains only. The Kansai-only area pass might be an option though and is much less expensive, albeit limited in the area covered.

I do agree that staying in either Kyoto or Osaka but not both would be my preferred option, but the OP's parents want the convenience of having a local room to return to during the day so they can rest or drop off purchases. That also makes some sense, depending on ones method of enjoying travel.

JR

Also agree with abmj-jr on consider a 7-day Japan Rail Pass in Kansai visit. Osaka Station could be only a 25 minutes journey from Kyoto Station (5 minutes from Osaka to Shin-Osaka in any train plus 20 min from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto in Shinkansen)

Actually the idea of a JR Pass was taken out when the OP said they'll be flying from Itami to Haneda instead of taking a train.

A 7 day JR pass isn't really worth the price in that case.

However, a one day JR West Kansai Area pass for use of the Haruka Limited Express from KIX might be worth it.

Osaka Station is 25 minutes by direct rapid train to Kyoto and is a lot cheaper (and just as fast travel time) than the Shinkansen. Also if you did stay at the Westin Osaka, useing Hankyu railways (Umeda Station next to Osaka Station), to Kyoto, is cheaper and brings you to Central Kyoto in about the same amount of time.

Please, I apologize. I don't have read last post of OP about split the stay as I started writing well before I submited the post.

I don't really want to say that they must buy a Japan Rail Pass, just to think on it if, for example, they stay at Osaka and they want to do a day-trip to Himeji and/or Nara and also commuting to Kyoto. The pass is valid also for the train from KIX to Osaka. But now I'm sure that adding up costs of single train journeys are less money than a rail pass.

(My english is not very fluent, and sometimes I can't write as clear as I want. I'm sorry)

...(My english is not very fluent, and sometimes I can't write as clear as I want. I'm sorry)
You are doing fine. You have nothing to apologize for. :)

We all occasionally jump in to post before reading all messages in a thread. Don't worry about it. Welcome to the Japan Forum!

JR

A JR-west pass might be a good idea if they wanted to do the long (but good) day trip to Hiroshima and Miyajima from Osaka or Kyoto. With 5 days in Kyoto I sure would consider doing that day trip. You could then use the pass on another day of validity to hit Himeji.

I don't follow your logic.

Kyoto and Osaka are very close - you can easily set up base in one and make a trip to visit the other. I wouldn't want to bother moving hotels from Kyoto to Osaka.

I see no advantage to moving accommodation from Osaka to Kyoto (or vice versa) in the middle of a four day Kansai visit.

As for Nara and Himeji - Do you mean that you would not bother visiting those places as part of a four-day visit to the area? Of course, I understand that any time that you spend in Nara or Himeji is time that you're not spending in Kyoto or Osaka. But there really isn't much "messing around" if you want to do a day trip to either of those places - They are easily accessible from Osaka or Kyoto - good day trips.
If you're going to spend 2 days in Osaka and 2 in Kyoto, I'd split them. If, for example, you're going to Nara for a day then it doesn't matter where you stay. It's just much easier to split where you're staying, especially if you're spending 2 days in each location. If the OP gets tired during the day and they're staying in a different city, they've got quite the dilemma (and, as the OP is traveling with his parents, I can easily see this happening). Or if the OP wants to stay out late in Osaka but the hotel is in Kyoto, the OP won't be able to do stay out late.

As for Nara and Himeji, I really wouldn't bother on a 5 day trip. With Himeji, I wouldn't bother unless I had a JR Pass or a lot of time to kill (an hour each way at JPY 1450 then there isn't much in Himeji but the castle, although the castle is really nice). Nara is better but I'd still leave it out on this trip (unless you really want to see pushy deer). They are day trips but I'm not so sure I'd reccomend them. I spent like 3 hours getting to/from Himeji and spent a little less time than that in Himeji itself. Nara wasn't nearly as long (to get there) but I think the OP's time would be better used by focusing on Kyoto and Osaka.

Unfortunately, the site seems to be down now, but check out Hemispheres Magazine's "Three Perfect Days" archive. I know they have "Three Perfect Days in Tokyo" and they may have one for Osaka as well.

It's just much easier to split where you're staying, especially if you're spending 2 days in each location.

Different strokes for different folks... I'd rather be at one hotel for four days. If I were worried about collapsing from jet lag, I would plan my first day to be near my hotel.

Or if the OP wants to stay out late in Osaka but the hotel is in Kyoto, the OP won't be able to do stay out late.

Solution = Stay out late in Kyoto.

As for Nara and Himeji, I really wouldn't bother on a 5 day trip.

I might do one - probably not both.
I might skip Osaka.

there isn't much in Himeji but the castle

There's also Engyoji (a temple on a hillside - short bus ride from Himeji station) which is quite beautiful. (Parts of The Last Samurai were filmed here).

Nara is better

It all depends what floats your boat...

I think the OP's time would be better used by focusing on Kyoto and Osaka.

If it were my first trip to Japan, I would spend 1 day in Nara, the rest of the time in Kyoto (and skip Osaka and Himeji) ... but I can see why someone else might prefer to spend all four days in Kyoto.

... but I can see why someone else might prefer to spend all four days in Kyoto.
Which is what I did on my first trip to Japan back in the day. Six days in country, first night near KIX after late arrival, the rest of my stay in Kyoto. I didn't see half of what I wanted in Kyoto and had to come back again - and again --

Tokyo didn't come until a year later. ;)

JR

I think Osaka would best be compared to a city like Chicago to best understand its character. It's an eating,shopping and entertainment hub, but if one is looking for obvious sights ( in the Western sense ) then the need for day trips arises soon.

Unfortunately, the site seems to be down now, but check out Hemispheres Magazine's "Three Perfect Days" archive. I know they have "Three Perfect Days in Tokyo" and they may have one for Osaka as well.

I read both Kansai and Tokyo "three perfect days" documents for my trip and I found them interesting. I think the website is now working. This is Kansai itinerary (http://www.hemispheresmagazine.com/3pd/three/2004/kansai.htm) (alternatively, google cache copy (http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:93jb4sCHbmsJ:www.hemispheresmagazin e.com/3pd/three/2000/kansai.htm+Hemispheres+kansai&hl=es&gl=es&ct=clnk&cd=6)) and here is the one for Tokyo (http://www.hemispheresmagazine.com/3pd/three/2002/tokyo.html). Some information is not updated, but is good for a quick glance of cities covered (I followed in particular the Osaka "perfect day")

I read both Kansai and Tokyo "three perfect days" documents for my trip and I found them interesting. I think the website is now working. This is Kansai itinerary (http://www.hemispheresmagazine.com/3pd/three/2004/kansai.htm) (alternatively, google cache copy (http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:93jb4sCHbmsJ:www.hemispheresmagazin e.com/3pd/three/2000/kansai.htm+Hemispheres+kansai&hl=es&gl=es&ct=clnk&cd=6)) and here is the one for Tokyo (http://www.hemispheresmagazine.com/3pd/three/2002/tokyo.html). Some information is not updated, but is good for a quick glance of cities covered (I followed in particular the Osaka "perfect day")

Half the stuff in the Tokyo page is either a poor choice or long gone.

Right...I guess the guidebooks are a good idea.

Psst -- here's a free one :D

http://wikitravel.org/en/Japan

I'd personally recommend that you take the time to visit a destination not on the tourist trail, like any of the ones listed here:

http://wikitravel.org/en/Off_the_beaten_track_in_Japan

Thanks again for all the insight. :)

A Japan Railpass seems to be better value than flying ITM-HND. If I were alone the train is definitely something I'd do. My parents weren't too thrilled about the train as we'd typically have lots of suitcases and it was a massive inconvenience when we did the trains around Europe.

When you're in Tokyo you have to take a day trip to Nikko. There is more to do and see in Tokyo than you'll have time to do, but the one time I went up to Nikko (I didn't have a chance when I lived there, so I went when I took a trip there with my wife) left me wanting more. It's just an incredible town and the sights are amazing.

day trips from Tokyo:

Kamakura (Daibutsu)
Yokohama (China Town)
Kawaguchiko (Fuji-san)

We stayed both in Osaka and Kyoto - but 4 nights in each place. If the OP is going to do the same - I'd recommend at least 3 nights instead of 2.

Also - if you're talking about 3 people with luggage - well we took a taxi from Osaka to Kyoto - and it didn't cost a lot more than the train. Don't know if there are many taxis that can handle 3 people + luggage. Maybe Mr. Doi in Kyoto (I recommend him so often you'd think I'm getting a commission :) ).

As far as Osaka goes - we spent almost a whole day at the Aquarium - and there was plenty to do on days 2-3 too. Robyn

I've lived in both areas. My thoughts, for what they're worth: you're here in February, so roaming outside urban areas will get quite snowy quite quickly. I don't personally like Osaka: it's just concrete. However, the underground shopping areas are huge and interesting. Above ground, there's little to recommend it. Osaka Castle is a recent reconstruction and only vaguely based on anything that might have been there before. Universal Studios is very easy to get to. Nights in Dotombori are full of lights. But it's a gritty urban environment, whatever spin you put on it.

Kyoto: lots of temples to see. If it's your thing, buy a book at the first temple and get cheap calligraphy done by each temple. Any sign that looks like a gothic "Ep" hints at the location of said calligrapher. As evil hairy barbarian foreigners, you can actually enter the palace in Kyoto for a tour Japanese can only see twice a year. You need to turn up at the police box in front of the entrance in the morning, and you'll get permission to enter in the afternoon.

If you want to venture outside Tokyo, there is a World Heritage Site at Hieizan Sakamoto which can be reached by cable railway. It's very pretty in Winter. If you're active, it's a 40-minute stomp across a very well-marked trail to a ropeway that will bring you back near the Kyoto area.

Kyoto temples are OK. The city is compact. Nara could be worth a visit: one of the temples is the world's largest wooden building, yet is 30% smaller than its predecessor.

Tokyo: there's not much point in trying to get out of the city. Sights are, in world terms, pretty mediocre, and that includes Kamakura unless you want to walk between temples through the mountains. In Tokyo, it's a question of looking for architecture and atmosphere. Roppongi is the foreigners bar ghetto area. Shibuya for young people (world's busiest pedestran crossing). Shinjuku has the world's busiest station. Tokyo is the world's largest station but there's no reason to visit that area. Backstreets get very quiet, very quickly. Tracking down local shrines can be fun. I'd check out Akihabara on a weekend, the entrance to Meiji Shrine on a Sunday and the shrine/general area itself (more people that you would imagine possible, plus photogenic goths on the bridge, plus a shopping street that starts off tacky and gets very expensive, plus a shrine in honor of Emperor Meiji). You could walk from Meiji Jingu to Shinjuku. Your hotel's in the wrong place, incidentally. It's a grotty journey from anywhere of interest. Ignore everything on the Ueno side of the city except, barely possibly, Ueno itself. No point in visiting Yokohama. China Town is small. Just outside Tokyo, Disneysea is quite well done.

Basically, Japan doesn't do "international" tourist attractions very well at all.

Well, them's my 2c :-)

... Basically, Japan doesn't do "international" tourist attractions very well at all. Well, them's my 2c :-)
Wow! What a grim, unencouraging post. I can only conclude that your time living in Japan was unpleasant and unfulfilling. How sad.

I think you will find that most posters and users of this forum will disagree strongly with your views. Japan is a wonderful place to visit, with cultural sites and activities all over. Modern or historical depending on each visitor's interests, all are in abundance. There is so much to see and do in Kyoto, Osaka and Tokyo that the OP, along with other first timers, will have to cherry-pick activities due to lack of time. Just to select one of your points, any visitor "ignoring" the area of Tokyo around Ueno will miss Ueno Park, the National Museum complex and related points, all of Nezu, Yanaka and Nippori, all of Asakusa including the Senso-ji Temple complex and Nakamise Arcade - all comprising one of the most interesting and charming areas of the city.

I encourage readers to go beyond this one negative post and look to the many, many helpful, encouraging and enthusiastic posts in this forum.

JMHO.

JR

... you can actually enter the palace in Kyoto for a tour Japanese can only see twice a year. You need to turn up at the police box in front of the entrance in the morning, and you'll get permission to enter in the afternoon.
Correction. The koban does not issue permission to enter the Imperial Palace. Foreign visitors must go to the Imperial Household Agency office located in the northwest corner of the Imperial Palace Park. It opens at 9:00 am, closes for lunch and re-opens at 1:00 pm. Visitors who arrive early can usually get permission to join an English language tour immediately - 10:00 am if you arrive before 9:00 am or 2:00 pm only if the morning tour is full. Arriving after noon but before 1:00 pm will likely get one onto the 2:00 pm tour that day. Only on the busiest of days is one likely to need to come back later.

JR

Wow! What a grim, unencouraging post. I can only conclude that your time living in Japan was unpleasant and unfulfilling. How sad.


Nothing RichardinSF hasn't said a few times before.

I've lived in both areas. My thoughts, for what they're worth: you're here in February, so roaming outside urban areas will get quite snowy quite quickly. I don't personally like Osaka: it's just concrete. However, the underground shopping areas are huge and interesting. Above ground, there's little to recommend it. Osaka Castle is a recent reconstruction and only vaguely based on anything that might have been there before. Universal Studios is very easy to get to. Nights in Dotombori are full of lights. But it's a gritty urban environment, whatever spin you put on it.

Kyoto: lots of temples to see. If it's your thing, buy a book at the first temple and get cheap calligraphy done by each temple. Any sign that looks like a gothic "Ep" hints at the location of said calligrapher. As evil hairy barbarian foreigners, you can actually enter the palace in Kyoto for a tour Japanese can only see twice a year. You need to turn up at the police box in front of the entrance in the morning, and you'll get permission to enter in the afternoon.

If you want to venture outside Tokyo, there is a World Heritage Site at Hieizan Sakamoto which can be reached by cable railway. It's very pretty in Winter. If you're active, it's a 40-minute stomp across a very well-marked trail to a ropeway that will bring you back near the Kyoto area.

Kyoto temples are OK. The city is compact. Nara could be worth a visit: one of the temples is the world's largest wooden building, yet is 30% smaller than its predecessor.

Tokyo: there's not much point in trying to get out of the city. Sights are, in world terms, pretty mediocre, and that includes Kamakura unless you want to walk between temples through the mountains. In Tokyo, it's a question of looking for architecture and atmosphere. Roppongi is the foreigners bar ghetto area. Shibuya for young people (world's busiest pedestran crossing). Shinjuku has the world's busiest station. Tokyo is the world's largest station but there's no reason to visit that area. Backstreets get very quiet, very quickly. Tracking down local shrines can be fun. I'd check out Akihabara on a weekend, the entrance to Meiji Shrine on a Sunday and the shrine/general area itself (more people that you would imagine possible, plus photogenic goths on the bridge, plus a shopping street that starts off tacky and gets very expensive, plus a shrine in honor of Emperor Meiji). You could walk from Meiji Jingu to Shinjuku. Your hotel's in the wrong place, incidentally. It's a grotty journey from anywhere of interest. Ignore everything on the Ueno side of the city except, barely possibly, Ueno itself. No point in visiting Yokohama. China Town is small. Just outside Tokyo, Disneysea is quite well done.

Basically, Japan doesn't do "international" tourist attractions very well at all.

Well, them's my 2c :-)
sounds like less than 2 cents to me.

Is NYC also just concrete? :D I don't even notice the concrete in Osaka with all the entertainment, dining and shopping options available. And then there are areas like Nishinomiya to wind down and relax.

Nothing RichardinSF hasn't said a few times before.

I did? Not sure about what you are referring to, but if you clarify, I'll confirm or deny it! Or maybe both simultaneously, with the election coming up, I've been listening to a lot of campaign ads.

I did? Not sure about what you are referring to, but if you clarify, I'll confirm or deny it! Or maybe both simultaneously, with the election coming up, I've been listening to a lot of campaign ads.

I guess it depends on your interpretation of "Japan doesn't do "international" tourist attractions very well at all", but here are a few quotes from you in various threads:

Kind of shows you that Japan isn't really used to tourism, doesn't it?

I wrote JNTO about this, but Japan isn't really into tourism, so I doubt that JNTO could influence anything even if they wanted to.

That Yokoso thing is embarassing. The REAL Japanese attitude towards tourism is reflected in such actions as closing the Tsukiji tuna auctions to tourists, not allowing JR passes on Nozomis, telling people that "some sumo stables are offended by foreigners who visit without an introduction," and so on. I love Japan but they are still totally jingoistic!

I think it's partly because Japanese tourists ( or Koreans, or Chinese... ) travel more for the communal experience and improving relationships than actual sightseeing. Or at least I'm imagining that. ;)

So I guess for a Japanese tourist visiting a good onsen or tasting local specialities with friends is worth a lot more than actually remembering what one saw today.

not allowing JR passes on Nozomis,

I already addressed this issue in the past, considering the JR Pass is not even available to Japanese citizens themselves, and the total value of the JR Pass compared to purchasing single tickets depending on distance etc etc, its still a fantastic value.

I guess it depends on your interpretation of "Japan doesn't do "international" tourist attractions very well at all", but here are a few quotes from you in various threads:

Kind of shows you that Japan isn't really used to tourism, doesn't it?

I wrote JNTO about this, but Japan isn't really into tourism, so I doubt that JNTO could influence anything even if they wanted to.

That Yokoso thing is embarassing. The REAL Japanese attitude towards tourism is reflected in such actions as closing the Tsukiji tuna auctions to tourists, not allowing JR passes on Nozomis, telling people that "some sumo stables are offended by foreigners who visit without an introduction," and so on. I love Japan but they are still totally jingoistic!

OK - I can't get who said what here straight.

But I will give you my impressions of being a tourist in Japan. Japanese society is - at least on the surface (which is all a tourist will get to see) - very formal and very polite. There are places that are very crowded (like the fish auctions) - and places that aren't (like many of the best restaurants - which tend to be rather small).

There are rules and particular ways of behaving when it comes to almost everything. And - a lot of times - visitors don't know the rules - or make any effort to know or understand them.

With regard to the fish auctions - they were "closed" when we went there - but no one objected to single travelers or couples like me and my husband going where we weren't supposed to go - as long as we were polite - and stayed out of the way of what is 100% a commercial enterprise. We heard that larger groups were kicked out of the auctions because tourists were touching the fish - even going so far as to sit on them for photographs. Considering what these fish cost - well I can't say I blame anyone for trying to impose rules.

Regarding the trains - there are all classes of trains in Japan. You can take relatively high speed trains with a JR pass. What you cannot take are the fastest trains favored by business people who will pay a premium for the extra speed (we took the fastest trains just to see what they were like). The JR pass is for the traveler who will sacrifice something in the way of time and convenience to save money. I think it's a reasonable trade off.

I have no experience with sumo. But I do have experience with some very high end restaurants which require patrons to speak at least some Japanese and "know the rules". These restaurants are very different than most in north America. You don't talk with the chef except perhaps to ask a short question regarding a particular dish. You don't take pictures to post on your web site. You don't ask if the chef can whip you up a burger because you won't eat raw fish. There are - in short - rules. And - since these are tiny restaurants which are difficult to get into - the owners/chefs ask for a minimal understanding of the rules before they allow you to patronize their establishments.

I don't think Japan is any more "jingoistic" than a lot of other countries I've been to. What's telling is that my husband's feeble attempts to speak Japanese were treated with great enthusiasm - not many non-Japanese learn even to say "please" or "thank you". Compare that with a country like France. It's just a different culture. And the more you learn about Japan before you go (and I especially recommend learning at least a little of the language) - the more you will get out of your trip.

Note that I have no illusions about Japanese feelings about members of other ethnic groups. But since I was an American - and a tourist - those feelings weren't especially relevant to my experiences there. Robyn

Regarding "Japan not being into tourism" - just my 2-yen worth.

I am a Japanese national and a business interpreter/translator. I've taken many non-Japanese people - friends and clients - to various tourist attractions all over Japan and I must say that, although I've seen some progress, there is still a huge room for improvement.

Just this week I've taken a French person to one of my favourites, the Tokyo-Edo museum in Ryogoku. There are brief explanations of the displays in English but on some items it was only the title or sometimes it was totally lacking - I had to translate and explain quite a lot. I am well aware that sometimes the translation can be funny (or appalling, especially as I'm a translator) but the English texts there were more than decent. It just wasn't enough.

I simply feel that there are so many things that can be improved, sometimes quite easily and without spending as much as they would have spent for the "Yokoso Japan program", but my complaints seem to fall on deaf ears or reaching people who have no clue about the issue.

I'm really glad that so many people are really familiar with Japan that most of the times I don't even need to reply to any questions asked to the Tokyo/Japan forum and appreciating the beauty of my country!

I guess it depends on your interpretation of "Japan doesn't do "international" tourist attractions very well at all", but here are a few quotes from you in various threads:

Kind of shows you that Japan isn't really used to tourism, doesn't it?

I wrote JNTO about this, but Japan isn't really into tourism, so I doubt that JNTO could influence anything even if they wanted to.

That Yokoso thing is embarassing. The REAL Japanese attitude towards tourism is reflected in such actions as closing the Tsukiji tuna auctions to tourists, not allowing JR passes on Nozomis, telling people that "some sumo stables are offended by foreigners who visit without an introduction," and so on. I love Japan but they are still totally jingoistic!

Thanks for the clarification. It is really clear reading those quotes that I didn't properly qualify what I meant to say. The intention of all three of those particular quotes was to indicate the poor Japanese government attitude towards tourism rather than Japan in general. If any part of the government -- national, regional, or even metropolitan -- was a strong supporter of tourism, for example, they would make sure there was a viewing plaform at Tsukiji, which is touted as a major site by the guidebooks. Likewise for making sure the JR pass was valid on Nozomis. And so on.

Anyhow, that's my story and I am sticking to it at least until you come up with some more quotes! :)

I have no experience with sumo.If you ever get back there, you should make the effort. Despite the often circulated rumor about the price and availability of tickets (even amongst the Japanese themselves!) it's quite easy and not that expensive. I saw a great match in week 2 last September in Tokyo with the infamous "Bulgarian" and we had a blast. I think the tickets were about 4,000 and it was incredibly memorable.

The more you learn about Japan before you go...the more you will get out of your trip.Here here! I took a few of my family members there last month who had never visited Japan and while I speak broken Japanese, they tried as well after a few quick lessons by me. Everyone from the cab drivers to the convenience store clerk, were visibly pleased to see them attempt (and respect) their language.

Regarding "Japan not being into tourism" - just my 2-yen worth.

I am a Japanese national and a business interpreter/translator. I've taken many non-Japanese people - friends and clients - to various tourist attractions all over Japan and I must say that, although I've seen some progress, there is still a huge room for improvement.

Just this week I've taken a French person to one of my favourites, the Tokyo-Edo museum in Ryogoku. There are brief explanations of the displays in English but on some items it was only the title or sometimes it was totally lacking - I had to translate and explain quite a lot. I am well aware that sometimes the translation can be funny (or appalling, especially as I'm a translator) but the English texts there were more than decent. It just wasn't enough.

I simply feel that there are so many things that can be improved, sometimes quite easily and without spending as much as they would have spent for the "Yokoso Japan program", but my complaints seem to fall on deaf ears or reaching people who have no clue about the issue.

I'm really glad that so many people are really familiar with Japan that most of the times I don't even need to reply to any questions asked to the Tokyo/Japan forum and appreciating the beauty of my country!

Just about every place in the world can be improved on - particularly when it comes to the issue of tourism and language. I used to live in Miami - which is a bilingual (English/Spanish) city. Many years ago the government decided to pass a law which made it illegal for the government to post signs in public places in English and Spanish. My husband and I happen to love zoos. So we donated $5,000 to put up English/Spanish signs in the local zoo (they were later all blown away by Hurricane Andrew).

We have been to some of the greatest museums and cultural sites in the world - in many countries - not only Japan - and found not a word of English - much less French - Spanish - Chinese - Japanese - or any other widely spoken language. We have been to some great museums and cultural sites in countries like Egypt where there's no money to put up any signs at all in any language! Perhaps one day a person with a *lot* of money will donate some of it all over the world to make sure that there are signs in many languages in many important museums and cultural sites in many countries so we can all understand things a little better. Robyn

Well I seem to have bent some people out of shape re my comment about international tourism. What I was trying to say is, there are relatively few "must see" attractions that combine size, accessibility in a general sense and accessible to non-Japanese in a specific sense. Asakusa Kannon is famous within Japan, but the precincts are dusty and there's little guidance once you're there. Nikko is, in Japanese terms, a major destination, but it's a very slow train, it arrives in a poorly-signed station, and the attractions are quite a hike away through a glum main street. The "world-famous bridge" at the end isn't served particularly well by its location. The traffic gets between you and the "what a pretty bridge" moment.

The world heritage site at Hieizan Sakamoto has no English signage at any point whatsoever from the station, through the town, up the cablecar, or within the complex itself.

Within Tokyo, the Edo Museum is as good as any museum in the world: it makes good use of three-dimensional space. But the other museums are awful: lines of people shufffling past things nailed to walls. The casual visitor wouldn't know that, often, the best exhibitions are in the department stores. How many actually get to the sword museum? What's the best place to see Fuji, and how do you get there? ShinFuji on the Shinkansen isn't a particularly nice place. Hakone via Odawara? Gotemba then bus? The oft-cited Kawaguchiko doesn't cater to anyone who isn't staying overnight. Tourism-wise, many destinations in Japan revolve around evening socialising with comrades. Going somewhere, looking at it and coming back is a different matter.

To get the best from a visit to Japan, you really need to do some research beforehand. As a fleeting visitor, it's harder to get something out of it.

I guess the acid test is what percentage of visitors come a second time. Now I actually love the place, but I've spent years listening to visitors who complain they didn't see as much as they expected to see, how much of each day was spent travelling, and so on.

Well, perhaps this brings my contribution closer to 2c :-)

Asakusa Kannon is famous within Japan, but the precincts are dusty and there's little guidance once you're there. Nikko is, in Japanese terms, a major destination, but it's a very slow train, it arrives in a poorly-signed station, and the attractions are quite a hike away through a glum main street.

I don't know what train you might have taken, but its a confortable 1hr 50minute - 2hr ride from Tokyo.

Tobu provides english language material, I was there recently and have a bunch of phamplets and maps provided from the station and Tobu. Also a bus network connects most of the sights in Nikko thus if one didn't want to walk from the station its an option. The bus was easy to use and had billingual announcments.

I think as a traveler Japan does more things to make traveling easier than a lot of other places I've visited in the world.
I know it certainly has for me.
Signs in Japanese, Romaji/English, and more I see Korean being added to signs as well.

When I travel around the major city near where I live in the US, I imagine its a lot harder for someone whos Japanese to get around than it is for someone here visiting Tokyo.

To get the best from a visit to Japan, you really need to do some research beforehand. As a fleeting visitor, it's harder to get something out of it.

Isn't this arguable about most places one might visit? I can't imagine myself being dumped in the middle of Rome and figuring everything out on the spot.

This is why things such as flyertalk exist or another good online guide japan-guide, and back on topic to the original poster asking "What is there to do" and looking for suggestions.

... I've spent years listening to visitors who complain they didn't see as much as they expected to see, how much of each day was spent travelling, and so on...
I think this is indicative of tourists vs. travelers. I personally would be disappointed if everyplace was nicely packaged, signed and made idiotproof like Disneyland. The places we visit are what they are - actual places. Sure, Asakusa Kannon is a bit dusty and not well organized for tourists, but it is not a "tourist spot," it is a temple, in actual use every day by locals who pray, and attend various local activities, rites and festivals. It would cheapen the place terribly to have it tricked out with multilingual signs, queue ropes and such.

I think the tourists who have complained are the losers. They did not go prepared to visit the places they went to. They expected to tour and were disappointed. This is, unfortunately, pretty common among we Americans, though certainly not exclusive to us. The old "furrin' travel would be so much better if it weren't for all those pesky furrinners and their incomprehensible furrin languages" attitude. Those who prepare, perhaps learn a bit of the language and visit with an open mind to see the culture and people of the places they visit are so much more richly rewarded than those who need and want easy access, signs and English-speaking guides.

I don't think we disagree so much. Perhaps just a case of "glass half full vs. half empty." :)

Oh, by the way. Welcome to Flyer Talk.

JR

Asakusa Kannon is famous within Japan, but the precincts are dusty and there's little guidance once you're there. Nikko is, in Japanese terms, a major destination, but it's a very slow train, it arrives in a poorly-signed station, and the attractions are quite a hike away through a glum main street. The "world-famous bridge" at the end isn't served particularly well by its location. The traffic gets between you and the "what a pretty bridge" moment.

Some people call it "dusty", I prefer "atmospheric". As for Nikko, maybe we should ask the Tokugawa clan to build their attractions closer to the station next time. I also propose that we start a campaign to the Japanese government to move the Itsukushima shrine torii gate in Mijayima to downtown Hiroshima, across from the station. That ferry is a major PITA, and only runs in the daytime. That should make it more accessible and a better attraction.

Personally, I think Japan is one of the easiest countries to get around, because everything runs as advertised, and there are rarely any surprises. You can design an itinerary to the minute and trust that it can be pulled off. Even if you don't speak Japanese.

To get the best from a visit to Japan, you really need to do some research beforehand. As a fleeting visitor, it's harder to get something out of it.


Isn't that true of anywhere? I frequent travel websites, and it's appalling how many people come onto them and ask questions like, "I'm going to London next week. What should I see and do?" or "Where should I go on my trip to Mexico?" I'm not making this up.

If I were the Draconian Travel Czarina, I'd ask each passenger boarding an international flight, "Have you read up on your destination?" If not, I'd hand them a guidebook and say, "Enjoy the flight."

Some people call it "dusty", I prefer "atmospheric". As for Nikko, maybe we should ask the Tokugawa clan to build their attractions closer to the station next time. I also propose that we start a campaign to the Japanese government to move the Itsukushima shrine torii gate in Mijayima to downtown Hiroshima, across from the station. That ferry is a major PITA, and only runs in the daytime. That should make it more accessible and a better attraction.


I bet the railroad to Nikko came later so it is a bit strange why it ends where it does. However, my request would have been for the walk between the train station and the temples to be downhill both ways. :)

I love getting lost in Japan, as some of the most interesting things I have seen have appeared when I've gotten lost. But Bushcat does have a point about Nikko: it is pretty hard when you arrive at either Tobu or JR station to figure out what to do next. And if you go to Nikko via JR (which people on a JR pass will do), the last part of the ride, from Utsunomiya to Nikko on the local train is pretty random and slow.

But Bushcat does have a point about Nikko: it is pretty hard when you arrive at either Tobu or JR station to figure out what to do next.

This is why I use Tobu to visit Nikko even with the JR pass. The JR Nikko Station is old, and used by local trains. The Tobu Station is used more and even JR East decided to stop there its joint operation train from Shinjuku at the Tobu Station.

What to do next is not hard and Its not hard to navigate, its a small station, walk outside all the bus stops are right in front of the station, they are marked where they stop, the tourist information center inside the station both in Asakusa and Nikko have pamplets and maps freely available.

I was just there not to recently and found it pretty easy to navigate.

Asakusa Kannon dusty? We were there in the spring and it wasn't dusty. Frankly - I thought that particular area was really touristy and tourist friendly. We went to the fish market in the morning - took the boat from the garden near the fish market - got off the boat and followed the throngss to the temple (Sensoji?) - and then wandered around the restaurant wares district.

There were tons of other tourists (including large groups of school children) at the temple - mostly Japanese - and they were very friendly. Showed us how to get our fortunes. One group of school girls from Hakodate who had never (or rarely) seen people from the west insisted on our posing with them for group photos to show the folks at home. Note that most of these "conversations" were conducted in sign language. And this was on our first day in Japan (after a 2 day trip from the US) - so we weren't exactly "sharp". I know very little about religion in Japan - but it seemed to me that most of the people we saw at the shrines we visited were pretty happy. Overall - the atmosphere at these sites was a lot less serious than you'd generally find at churches or mosques. Maybe it had something to do with the season - spring was definitely in the air during our entire trip. Robyn

P.S. Have to confess that although we were in Tokyo for 5 days - we didn't go to a single museum. I've found over the years that unless I'm dealing with an art museum (art pretty much speaks for itself) - I don't have much fun seeing displays in museums in countries where I don't speak the language.

... I don't have much fun seeing displays in museums in countries where I don't speak the language.
For future reference, in case you return to Tokyo, the Edo-Tokyo Museum in Ryogoku may be an exception. Very accessible and accommodating to non-natives, lots of hands-on stuff and full- or half-scale dioramas and a lot of fun. It is located in "sumo town," right next to the national sumo stadium. If you only go to one museum, that should be the one.

JR

I think this is indicative of tourists vs. travelers...I think the tourists who have complained are the losers. They did not go prepared to visit the places they went to.Well put. ^ I just had a similar conversation with two fellow travelers atop the Prince Akasaka Hotel (Bar) a few weeks ago. This was our second trip together to Japan and we were marvelling at the number of average Americans who dismiss Japan with little or no knowledge of the country as vacation destination (FT'ers not included, of course).

Bushcat, I appreciate your views and especially that you have taken the trouble to explain and expand on them.
It seems to me they have been distilled from your own experiences with a string of visitors to Japan who did little research before they got there and relied on you to show them around.

Personally, I can't share all your views (especially as my favourite neighbourhood in Tokyo is Yanaka, just NorthWest of Ueno near Nippori station) but I can see how you got to them, and I think your posts are worthwhile reading for anybody who plans to arrive in Japan having learnt nothing about it beforehand (which means the chances of them stumbling on your opinions here are slim to say the least).

My own suggestion to the OP is that they stay at least one night in a Ryokan (traditional inn), which for many visitors is the highlight of a trip to Japan. Perhaps Japanese attractions don't have the 'wow' factor of those of other countries, but I remember my wanderings in Kamakura just as fondly as those spent in Barcelona, and a moonlit walk with MrLapLap clad in wooden geta (sandals) in the mountain town of Tsumago was even more romantic than a stroll through the alleys and bridges of Northern Venice.

To me it's all about atmosphere, and the way the houses and haunts of so many different generations can all be found alongside and amongst each other. (What I mean by this is that people who grew up in the 1940s are not the same as those who grew up in the 60s, and these aren't the same as those who grew up in the 80s, who are different again to young people today - I know this might seem obvious, but the differences in each subsequent generation of Japanese seems much more jarring than what I've experienced in Europe and North America). The real charm (and frustration) of Tokyo to me is how they all mesh and tangle together. I'm not even sure if my children, let alone my grandchildren, will get to enjoy Kamakura, Yanaka, the area around Sengakuji (between Shinagawa and Azabu Juban) and all kinds of other districts that will likely get demolished to make way for Mori Building 879 or 880, the way they are now.

As for bilingual museums, I have to agree that the omissions in translation for many of the installations at the Edo-Tokyo museum will prove frustrating for anybody with a real interest in the period. There were too many exhibits that only made some sense to me because my interest in the Edo and Meiji periods has led me to read up on the era (and because of the accounts I've heard through my husband of his grandmother - her father was the station master at Shinjuku and she remembers the area well before it was paved).

The only truly bilingual museum I've been to is that attached to the Yasukini shrine. So many problems could have been avoided if they'd made the same effort towards informing foreign visitors here as they do at most other attractions...

I've visited Japan 2 times (1999 and 2001), and heading back this week for my third trip, bringing along Mrs. CAL this time. My other 2 trips were for 5 and 6 days respectively; this trip is 12 days. Having done lots of the "tourist" stuff, I'm omitting the things that aren't that great (the Tokyo National Museum is one such place, imho), and ensuring we hit the highlights. We start in Kyoto (daytripping to Osaka) and end in Tokyo, and to balance the big-city feel we'll be getting, we've added some small-town, older Japan experiences: 3 days in the Japanese Alps area.

We're going thru Takayama and Matsumoto, and walking the old Edo Highway between Magome and Tsumago, with a ryokan stay in Takayama and another at the end of the hike in Tsumago. If anyone can offer your advice and experiences here, I'd be grateful.

Also, can anyone give me advice on getting luggage transfered from Osaka to Tokyo? We have the added need to have our bags stored in Tokyo for 3 days before we arrive. We certainly can't hike the Edo Highway trail for 5 miles with large rolling suitcases, etc. so we're each bringing a backpack that will hold 3 days worth of stuff. We intend to forward the largest pieces of our luggage. FWIW, we're staying at the Westin Kyoto, arrivng Tokyo at the Century Hyatt 3 days after leaving Kyoto.)

My opinion on Japan's suitability for tourism is that for the visitor who works at it, the country is endlessly fascinating. "Working at it" can mean going out of your way geographically, or it can mean simply stopping to observe the spectacle that is Shinjuku Station at rushhour, or Tokyo Station's 63 different exits, or the funky Japanese teens who contrast with the gray-suited salarymen on the streets.

Simply put, for the observant, open-minded, curious visitor, Japan could easily occupy a month of your time. The country continues to fascinate me, and to all who intend to travel there, I hope it does you as well.

PS> One thing that I MUST recommend in Osaka, and even as a reason to go there at all, is the Osaka aquarim (unless you don't like aquariums). Osaka's HAS to be one of the top 2 or 3 in the whole world. Absolutely amazing. Then, if you have time to kill and like tall buildings, the Floating Sky observatory will delight you.

We're going thru Takayama and Matsumoto, and walking the old Edo Highway between Magome and Tsumago, with a ryokan stay in Takayama and another at the end of the hike in Tsumago. If anyone can offer your advice and experiences here, I'd be grateful.

Also, can anyone give me advice on getting luggage transfered from Osaka to Tokyo?

Aye. You'll be wanting this thread if you're thinking of treading the old Nakasendo highway:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478803

For the luggage transfers you'll want the marvellous takkyubin service. It's been discussed many times in this forum, but there's an overview here you might find helpful:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html

If you can get hold of and read "Before the Dawn" by Shimazaki Toson (published in English by Hawaiian University Press) I believe your appreciation of what you'll find in the Kiso Valley will increase hugely.
Available quite cheaply here: http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dawn-Shimazaki-Toson/dp/0824809149

Sights are, in world terms, pretty mediocre, and that includes Kamakura unless you want to walk between temples through the mountains.

I disagree with your comments on Kamakura which is actually the highlight of our first trip to Tokyo.

The journey itself is quite interesting, especially the slow local train that goes through the residential areas. The atmosphere is peaceful and the outdoor Buddha statue is often regarded as the symbol of Japan for many Asians though not many know its located in Kamakura.

Please, I apologize. I don't have read last post of OP about split the stay as I started writing well before I submited the post.

I don't really want to say that they must buy a Japan Rail Pass, just to think on it if, for example, they stay at Osaka and they want to do a day-trip to Himeji and/or Nara and also commuting to Kyoto. The pass is valid also for the train from KIX to Osaka. But now I'm sure that adding up costs of single train journeys are less money than a rail pass.

(My english is not very fluent, and sometimes I can't write as clear as I want. I'm sorry)

No need to apologize. I'm sure your suggestion will come in very handy if and when I plan a second visit to Japan on my own. :)

I don't really want to say that they must buy a Japan Rail Pass, just to think on it if, for example, they stay at Osaka and they want to do a day-trip to Himeji and/or Nara and also commuting to Kyoto. The pass is valid also for the train from KIX to Osaka. But now I'm sure that adding up costs of single train journeys are less money than a rail pass.

Yep, a reason I'm "anti-rail-pass."

Japan is probably my favorite destination. Was just there for 7 hour layover and did the Narita temple. I can't get enough of Japan and thoroughly enjoy just walking around.

Can't wait to go back and can't understand why travelers (Americans) overlook it. It can't just be about price? Can it?

Yep, a reason I'm "anti-rail-pass."

Japan is probably my favorite destination. Was just there for 7 hour layover and did the Narita temple. I can't get enough of Japan and thoroughly enjoy just walking around.

Can't wait to go back and can't understand why travelers (Americans) overlook it. It can't just be about price? Can it?

I remember having a discussion with you in the past, I think in the SPG forum about how railpasses or general passes are not bad, its a matter of how you plan to use them.

If the OP did make a roundtrip by rail, then the pass would of been very useful to them.

Actually, in fact if one went from KIX to Kyoto by train, a one day JR West Kansai area pass for 2000yen is cheaper than paying a single fare.

As for travelers (Americans) overlooking Japan, I'm American I have lots of friends who are American and love visiting Japan as well. But I also have friends who love visiting South America, Europe, etc, Different people, different tastes.

Yeh definitely. I'm anti-pass for the full pass for just everyone, because often its just cheaper for single tix. However, I do agree that the Kansai pass here would be beneficial. ^

Yeh definitely. I'm anti-pass for the full pass for just everyone, because often its just cheaper for single tix. However, I do agree that the Kansai pass here would be beneficial. ^

This is another case where research comes in handy. My next trip (in two days) is to attend a meeting in Fukuyama, Hiroshima-ken. For various reasons, I'm flying into NRT, and the roundtrip Shinkansen fare from Tokyo to Fukuyama is more than the cost of a 7-day rail pass, plus my stay will be short enough that I can ride the Narita Express both coming and going. I'm saving about 11,000 yen by getting the pass, not a fortune, certainly, but not insignificant.

And as someone who had to make two interlapping itineraries last year (my husband was living in Japan at the time and not entitled to one) there are other benefits to having a JR pass which one wouldn't usually think of.

My parents travelled from Nagoya westwards by bullet train, I travelled to Osaka with my husband by what should have been a much cheaper Limited Express route. MrLapLap doesn't read Kanji and, unsure if we were taking the right train, I asked a JR official if the train before us was the correct one, he just grunted an affirmitive. Once on board some inspectors came and MrLapLap was landed with a pretty hefty supplement (I had a JRpass which was valid). We were on the wrong train, I'd obviously asked the wrong question to a deeply unhelpful employee.

As a rule of thumb, those who want to see Tokyo/Kanto AND Kyoto/Kansai who are travelling in and out of the same airport (NRT or KIX) are usually well served by a JR pass - exception are those travelling as a pair/group who can get a tour discount ticket which includes Bullet train and accommodation for less than the price of a usual Tokyo-Kyoto return (deal isn't so worthwhile for those travelling alone).

Those who are travelling into KIX and out of NRT (or vice versa) should think carefully as to whether the JR pass will offer any savings, as well as if it's worth relinquishing a ticket on the faster and more frequent Nozomi bullet train for the sake of the pass.

As a rule of thumb, those who want to see Tokyo/Kanto AND Kyoto/Kansai who are travelling in and out of the same airport (NRT or KIX) are usually well served by a JR pass

If one traveled that route within 7 days. A 14 day railpass would be more expensive to cover that route.

Aye. You'll be wanting this thread if you're thinking of treading the old Nakasendo highway:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478803

For the luggage transfers you'll want the marvellous takkyubin service. It's been discussed many times in this forum, but there's an overview here you might find helpful:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html


Many MANY thanks, LapLap. The Nakasendo thread is marvelous! I wouldn't have found it; the search function on FT recently seems more of a malfunction.

One question, though: I'm going to be there on Nov 15-18, and I was curious if mosquitos are still a problem that late in the season. I couldn't tell from one of the posts if I should still expect the little pests in mid-Nov.

Also curious about temperature in the Kiso Valley around mid-Nov. esp during the day (not so concerned about night - we'll be inside).

Many MANY thanks, LapLap. The Nakasendo thread is marvelous! I wouldn't have found it; the search function on FT recently seems more of a malfunction.

One question, though: I'm going to be there on Nov 15-18, and I was curious if mosquitos are still a problem that late in the season. I couldn't tell from one of the posts if I should still expect the little pests in mid-Nov.

Also curious about temperature in the Kiso Valley around mid-Nov. esp during the day (not so concerned about night - we'll be inside).

Even in October we were completely untroubled by mozzies in this region. You're unlikely to come across any at all in November.

I understand that some roads in the Japan Alps can close in November because of snow (the example I had in mind is Kamikouchi/Kamikochi). Expect some rain, and think about taking an extra pair of shoes with you along with the waterproofs and a few extra jumpers, it might get cold in those inns away from the kotatsu (http://www.sushicam.com/Journal%20entries/001230.php).

This is a recommended and well known website that describes the region:
http://ease.com/~randyj/rjjapan1.htm

The only 'problem' with insects I had was where I crushed a poor gejigeji (http://park2.wakwak.com/~negibouzu/ikimono/kirai/gejigeji.jpg) with my face in Tsumago one night. The poor thing limped away, two of its legs squashed and left behind... :(
Of course, in this case, I provided the problem. The gejigeji was perfectly innocent.
(I understand gejigeji is a generic Japanese term for hairy caterpillers and other many legged bugs - if anyone knws the real name for one of these, I'd love to know it).

Uh, others seem to be far more reasonable with the Rail Pass than I've ever been. After my feeble efforts to learn Japanese paid off little by little in the late nineties I treated it as a kind of "laissez faire" pass.

Fancy a night out in Shibuya and return to Kansai in the morning? Too bored to take a local train to Kobe? Hey, the fish market in Akashi is supposed to do a fabulous lunch! All solved courtesy of that magical pass.

I´ve especially enjoyed those 15 minute hops on the Shinkansen, it still feels kind of decadent. :D

And don't forget the ekiben! Those boxed lunches with local goodies are one of the best deals in Japan.

Fancy a night out in Shibuya and return to Kansai in the morning? Too bored to take a local train to Kobe? Hey, the fish market in Akashi is supposed to do a fabulous lunch! All solved courtesy of that magical pass.

I´ve especially enjoyed those 15 minute hops on the Shinkansen, it still feels kind of decadent. :D

Of course highly unrealistic for the average newbie traveling to Japan, but I like your thinking. ^