I will be traveling to Japan in March with my wife and will be posting quite a few queries here in the Japan forum for advice. I thought it would be easier, both for myself, and for others searching later to break up my queries into independent posts based on the subject rather than one massive query. I have read the forum extensively already learned quite a lot. So here goes with my first query:

I would like to stay in a 4-star+ hotel in Kyoto. While I am personally fascinated by the idea of a high-end Ryokan, it will not work for my wife, so that is out. Ideally, I would like a hotel that has very good access to restaurants outside the hotel in walking distance. I don't object to eating in hotel restaurants, but my experiences in Tokyo tell me that they can be very expensive and I don't want to be limited to that. My wife is quite particular about what she doesn't eat (more on that in another thread) so we will want to be able to 'pre-screen' restaurant menus before going in or making a reservation.

Based on what I have previously read here, it seems that the Granvia (being above a train station and linked to a department store and a mall) and the Okura (which I understand is also linked to a mall) will suit well. The Westin Miyako from what I can see in the posts here and on the internet is just a little too cut off from easy restaurant choices.

Given these two choices, what plusses and minuses does each one have and how much more would you pay for one over the other? Or if you have an alternative suggestion, or feel that I am missing something, please let me know. Thanks to all in advance.

In short:

The Granvia gives you easy access to more everyday type Japanese and some Western style restaurants in the adjacent department store and underground mall. There are also some places across the street at Kyoto tower. Other than that, nothing within walking distance. The southern side of the station is the Japanese version of a ghetto and is best avoided.

The Okura is next both to the Kamo river and Kyoto's most famous eating alley, the Ponto-cho. Here the offerings are a notch or two more elegant and costly, although you can also find cheaper Izakaya ( Japanese gastropubs ) and f.ex fashionable Italian places among the many choices. If you choose a riverside restaurant you can also enjoy the day-or nighttime views of Kyoto's artery.

... I would like to stay in a 4-star+ hotel in Kyoto. ... Ideally, I would like a hotel that has very good access to restaurants outside the hotel in walking distance. ... we will want to be able to 'pre-screen' restaurant menus before going in or making a reservation.
... the Granvia (being above a train station and linked to a department store and a mall) and the Okura (which I understand is also linked to a mall) will suit well...
Wow! I am surprised that this has been up all day and no responses. I may as well start the ball rolling, although I make no claims to be completely informed regarding 4* hotels in Kyoto. :)

I can't comment on the interiors of the 2 hotels you mention, but can comment on locations. The Okura is the old Kyoto Hotel, located at the intersection of Kawaramachi-dori and Oike-dori - right across the street from Kyoto city hall and quite conveniently located to Pontocho and the central entertainment and shopping area. I seem to recall something about Okura refurbishing the property after they bought it. If you are walkers, it is reasonably located for walking to old Gion, Heian Jingu Shrine and garden and the Imperial Palace - much less than a mile for each. It is also located on major bus routes and across the street from a subway station for the east-west line. Many restaurants are within walking distance. The neighborhood is not bad and I would not be concerned about walking after dark. I would certainly recommend an evening walk through Pontocho and the old Gion-Shinbashi area, which is not too far away.

The Granvia is, as you noted, right above the main train station so exceedingly easy to get to from the shinkansen. One of our posters has mentioned having hotel staff meet the train and assist with luggage from the station to the hotel. It is close to the train station (obviously,) the main bus station, extensive cab stands, the Isetan department store in the station building and the Porta underground shopping mall with dozens of eating places, stores, shops and other stuff along with a major north-south subway station. Outside is not a really "bad" neighborhood, but it is a train station area. Not quite as classy a neighborhood as some. I'm not enamored of the restaurant-walking-siteseeing opportunities in the area. It is safe, but you will want to exercise a bit more caution after dark. There are few of the top sites within an easy walk except for Higashi-Honganji Temple and Shosei-en Garden but the main tourist ("chin-chin") buses stop at the station and cabs and tours are available. Personally, I prefer to catch the "chin-chin" or other buses someplace further away as they always leave Kyoto Station packed. There ARE a couple of very nice department stores close by for up-scale shopping. Everybody should visit a nice Japanese depato at least once just for the experience, not to mention the food basements.

In case you want to look at some other high-end hotels, the Brighton is 5* and right across from the Imperial Palace. It has a world renowned chef and is very nice, but pretty darned pricy. The International (Kokusai) Hotel is right across from Nijo Castle and has one of the better western restaurants in town for a "nice" dinner. Called the Azalea, it is worth a visit even if you aren't staying there. If you go Thursday - Saturday, they have live dance demonstrations by real maiko in the garden beside the restaurant and bar.

One of the newest "luxe" hotels in town is the old Park Hotel, which has been restored as a Hyatt Regency and has had some pretty nice reviews here. In an excellent location, it is very near several tourist sites, parks, temples and the museum and is probably worth a look.

Really, for "picky" dining, you will probably need to consult the concierge of a good hotel and take a cab anyway, so walking may not be on tap every night. For "local" dining, where you peruse the plastic food outside the establishment, almost anyplace will have something nearby. Most will be on side streets behind major commercial boulevards.

Just a few ideas to consider. I'm sure some of our others will chime in soon.

JR

(Well, I see Mosburger jumped in while I was editing, so my comment about "no responses" is out of date. :p )

For me, it's a no-brainer: the Okura wins hands-down. Service and hotel facilities are superb, but location is the key. Step outside the hotel, and you're in a pleasant city environment (right across from city hall, where people gather and enjoy themselves on weekends and holidays) and steps from interesting neighborhoods and wonderful shopping. For neighborhoods, Pontocho is right there, and Gion is just over the bridge. For shopping, the wonderful pedestrian Teramachi-dori is just across the street, the Nishiki market is very close, and the big department stores are at the other end of Teramachi. Zillions of food choices, from high-end Japanese restaurants to Starbucks and sushi take-aways, very close.

Granvia is wonderfully convenient to the train station; otherwise, the neighborhood is undistinguished.

For me, it's a no-brainer: the Okura wins hands-down. Service and hotel facilities are superb, but location is the key. Step outside the hotel, and you're in a pleasant city environment (right across from city hall, where people gather and enjoy themselves on weekends and holidays) and steps from interesting neighborhoods and wonderful shopping. For neighborhoods, Pontocho is right there, and Gion is just over the bridge. For shopping, the wonderful pedestrian Teramachi-dori is just across the street, the Nishiki market is very close, and the big department stores are at the other end of Teramachi. Zillions of food choices, from high-end Japanese restaurants to Starbucks and sushi take-aways, very close.

Granvia is wonderfully convenient to the train station; otherwise, the neighborhood is undistinguished.

Wideman-san: On your next Kyoto trip, please explore the area north of the Okura. It's more residential, but has some hidden gems in terms of refined restaurants and other Kyoto pleasantries right up to Imadegawa-dori. And the really intriguing areas only begin north of there...

The Okura is located at just about the division line between the parallel reality also called northern Kyoto and the tourist hordes in the south... ;)

And once again it falls to me to remind you to consider the new Hyatt Regency Kyoto, which is most likely the nicest western style hotel in Kyoto just now and -- because it hasn't been "discovered" by a lot of Japanese yet -- often very keenly priced, particularly midweek.

And once again it falls to me to remind you to consider the new Hyatt Regency Kyoto...
Actually, it was mentioned in post #3, but it never hurts to reinforce on a good "find." :)

JR

But location is the key.I wish I had posted this question myself about two weeks ago! I just returned from Kyoto (and Tokyo) yesterday and stayed at the Granvia for 3 nights. While the hotel itself is very, very nice and its connection to the train station was incredibly convenient as soon as you step off the shinkansen, its luster for the remaining 72 hours waned. Taking cabs each day to places like Pontocho, Gion, etc., became a bit tedious. In fact, our final night we attempted to have a late night snack or drink (about 10:00pm) and found nearly everything around the train station closed. Wideman has it right, I think.

My wife and I stayed at the HR this past summer. Generally very happy with it - clean, modern, and a good location next to Sanjusanjen-do Temple and across from the Kyoto Museum. Not on a subway line, but we took the bus pretty much everywhere.

Thanks for all the input. To summarize what I think I read:

Granvia is a nice hotel. Location plusses include easy access to the train, busses, and subway, easy access to two depatos, easy access to inexpensive dining Japanese style. Location minusses include a neighborhood which isn't quite as nice, and it is farther from pleasant places to walk.

Okura is a nice hotel (maybe nicer than Granvia). Location plusses include easier access to nice walking/strolling neighborhoods and nicer restaurants. Easy access to busses/subway. Easier access to sights Location minusses include farther from trains, maybe slightly farther to everyday restaurants.

Hyatt Regency is a nice hotel and should be considered. Location seems good, but still a bit of a black box to me. More research on my part is indicated.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. I'll be back soon with a post on the food issue and how to deal with it.

...Okura ... maybe slightly farther to everyday restaurants...
Your summary is pretty good, but I don't think the "distance to everyday dining" is a problem for the Okura. There are plenty of places to eat in all ranges close by in all directions, along with some high-end department stores and other shopping.

If you are looking at other hotels, definitely Google or otherwise look at the Hyatt Regency, but I encourage you to do the same for the International Hotel Kyoto, also. Quite nice, killer location. Maybe not the HR, but nice. For the HR, I'd inquire about rooms overlooking Sanjusangendo (west) or the park (north.) For the International, ask about "castle view" rooms. I don't think it really matters for the Okura, although north or east side rooms will probably be a bit quieter due to less street noise.

You won't go wrong with any of the suggestions made in this thread - all are quite nice. You will probably be arriving by cab for anyplace other than the Granvia anyway and cab fares will be comparable. I wouldn't hesitate to stay at any of the properties discussed here but would investigate price. I am basically pretty cheap. ;)

JR

HR - clean, modern rooms. Plasma TV, comfortable bed, very peaceful. Nice bathrooms with separate shower room, free wi-fi in the lobby, but you have to pay in-room. There are a couple of restaurants there, an Italian one, a Japanese grill of some sort, and maybe one other. The hotel wasn't very crowded when we were there - saw more staff than guests. It is relatively new, so still some kinks to work out, but everyone was friendly. Concierges varied in quality.

We never ate at the hotel, choosing instead to try out local places. One bar/grill place, another more traditional Izakaya where we had omakase (one of the best meals of our life) and another nice meal at an Indian place with hand-tossed naan, etc. We ended up taking the bus up to the Shichi-jo Dori area where there are plenty of restaurants.

Would go back to Kyoto and stay at the HR in a second...

I'm surprised nobody has tried to stay in a ryokan in Kyoto. I stayed at the Ryokan Shimizu ... that ryokan is a god-send nested in the neighborhood about a mile north of the train station. I stayed there for a week and was blown away by my room and amenities.. I felt spoiled there. :)

If anyone wants me to send them pictures I took while I stayed there, I'd be glad to once I get them uploaded to my photo album online.

Sanosuke!

I'm surprised nobody has tried to stay in a ryokan...
Lots of us have stayed in ryokan, but the OP of this thread clearly said that was not what they wanted for this trip. We've been responding to his request for information on 4* +/- western-style hotels.

JR

Your summary is pretty good, but I don't think the "distance to everyday dining" is a problem for the Okura. There are plenty of places to eat in all ranges close by in all directions, along with some high-end department stores and other shopping.

Apart from Teramachi-dori I wouldn't say there are too many "everyday" places around the Okura. Ponto-cho has some chains, but not really cheap ones, nor are the franchises there standard in appearance. And it would be a little hard to attempt to comply to standards too when you have a several hundred years old front garden where every tree and bush has their own name and story... ;)

And some places there still refuse to accept guests who have not been introduced by regular visitors.

Ok, take some of what I wrote back. Of course there are quite good price/quality combo places on Kawaramachi too, but maybe more towards the Shijo crossing where the major shopping frenzy is. And rather youth-oriented in style and offerings.

To the north, not that many interesting places before the Marutamachi bridge. On Kawaramachi that is.

To save some $$ while still being in a good location and a comfortable hotel, consider the Hotel Fujita (http://www.fujita-kyoto.com/e/index.html). It's just a block or two north of the Okura, overlooking the river. I stayed there 2 years ago, and the rooms are comfortable, though smallish. Bathrooms were decent size, and well-equipped (toilet with washlet, etc). The restaurant/breakfast room setting is especially pleasant, adjacent to a water garden. The hotel has much more of a Japanese feel than a Western one, and I found it to be a very reasonable place. Not nearly the same service level or room size as the Okura, but also about $80-100/night less.

Thanks everyone for all the info. In my first check on pricing, the Granvia is coming up 80$ cheaper (for superior city view room) than Okura (standard room) and 60$ cheaper than Hyatt Regency.

Based on what I have heard and read so far, it doesn't sound like the Okura is worth $80 more per night. Any disagreements?

I will, of course, keep searching for better rates.

Thanks everyone for all the info. In my first check on pricing, the Granvia is coming up 80$ cheaper (for superior city view room) than Okura (standard room) and 60$ cheaper than Hyatt Regency.

Based on what I have heard and read so far, it doesn't sound like the Okura is worth $80 more per night. Any disagreements?

I will, of course, keep searching for better rates.

Those are meaningful price differences. Although I much prefer the Hyatt, for $60 less, and assuming you're not a Gold Passport loyalist, the Granvia is a good choice.