In august we booked 5 seats PHL-FRA-PHL for next week. 2 tickets (me and my infant son) were paid for with $$$, the other three were award tickets. We booked all 5 seats in the same row for both the outbound and return flights.

I checked today and me and my son had been moved from row 17 to row 27 (it's an A330), without notice. Needless to say I was a bit upset. I got on the phone with CS and, after 2 levels of supervisors and 45 minutes, got all 5 of us back together in row 15.

Is this common? Did they split us because we are on 2 seperate itineraries, despite the fact that they were booked together? I am glad I checked, as I think I would have been less calm if I had discovered this at the airport when checking in...

When you say confirmed you mean what exactly? I do know that my aisle seat (PHL-MAN) was taken away from me, and to add insult to injury, was told I'd done it myself! Other people have indicated that it has happened to them.

When you say confirmed you mean what exactly? I do know that my aisle seat (PHL-MAN) was taken away from me, and to add insult to injury, was told I'd done it myself! Other people have indicated that it has happened to them.

We received a confirmed seat assignment, as with the purchase of any other ticket.

common

Is this common?

I don't know how common it is, but the same thing happened to my parents last June going PHL to CDG. As a CP I had confirmed everything for them the day before, but on check in they had been separated from their confirmed aisle and window seats. They managed to get seats together in the last row of the 330, but only because they traded with a family traveling with a small child who had also been separated! Apparently it was total chaos since the entire back of the plane was uprooted due to a tour group of teenagers they were trying to seat together.

KIM

common

That's too bad. This is the first time it's happened to me on a TA flight.

We received a confirmed seat assignment, as with the purchase of any other ticket.

Ah, I see, the kind of confirmed which isn't really confirmed (because as per US seat allocation is not confirmed until check-in). I'm glad you got it sorted out - I still haven't.

In august we booked 5 seats PHL-FRA-PHL for next week. 2 tickets (me and my infant son) were paid for with $$$, the other three were award tickets. We booked all 5 seats in the same row for both the outbound and return flights.

I checked today and me and my son had been moved from row 17 to row 27 (it's an A330), without notice. Needless to say I was a bit upset. I got on the phone with CS and, after 2 levels of supervisors and 45 minutes, got all 5 of us back together in row 15.

Is this common? Did they split us because we are on 2 seperate itineraries, despite the fact that they were booked together? I am glad I checked, as I think I would have been less calm if I had discovered this at the airport when checking in...

Seat assignments are not part of a passenger's contract with the airline. I don't speak as a US agent, just as someone who has been in the industry a while.

Passengers who confirm seats many months in advance, for example, may find their seat assignments changed due to change of aircraft, operational reasons, sky marshalls etc..

Seats are only ever assigned on a requested basis. It's the policy of most major airlines. If your seats are changed, they'll do their best to reseat you. If it's a full flight, it may mean splitting a party of 4 into 2 x 2's. I often have passengers calling six months in advance of their flights, asking are these seats definitely confirmed, as of now? In the real world, the honest answer has to be 'usually, yes; but not necessarily."

Seat assignments are not part of a passenger's contract with the airline. I don't speak as a US agent, just as someone who has been in the industry a while.

... are these seats definitely confirmed, as of now? In the real world, the honest answer has to be 'usually, yes; but not necessarily."

This is one of many reasons (i.e. rules on luggage, rules on vouchers/ bumping, misconnects) that the bandwagon for a "Passenger's Bill of Rights" should be rolled back out. Warbo is correct in stating that the airline reserves the right to reseat, but IMHO they conceal that fact in the fine print and in the meanwhile the airline DECEPTIVELY offers you a "seat reservation." It would be nice if the industry could figure out something more akin to the hotel industry, where certain standards are maintained and applied consistently, instead of this ridiculous "hit or miss" experience.

Many folks may recall the movement for this "Passenger Bill of Rights" .... What happened?: 9/11

Thanks Osama. Jerk. :td:

Kendall

Seat assignments are not part of a passenger's contract with the airline. I don't speak as a US agent, just as someone who has been in the industry a while.

Passengers who confirm seats many months in advance, for example, may find their seat assignments changed due to change of aircraft, operational reasons, sky marshalls etc..

Seats are only ever assigned on a requested basis. It's the policy of most major airlines. If your seats are changed, they'll do their best to reseat you. If it's a full flight, it may mean splitting a party of 4 into 2 x 2's. I often have passengers calling six months in advance of their flights, asking are these seats definitely confirmed, as of now? In the real world, the honest answer has to be 'usually, yes; but not necessarily."

Well that makes WN better than US by a substantial margin I guess. They never tell you that you can't have the seat that you have chosen. When my butt goes into the seat it is mine. If I am the first one there I am the sole deciding factor as to whether I decide to give it up...trust me. That issue came up with me almost two years ago when the GA at PHL tried to take me out of 7C and put me into 15F for PHL-DFW on a sold-out flight so that a US employee could have 4C. I showed him my BP and told him to get a police officer. He backed down and the US employee went to 15F. The only times I will not sit in the seat that I have a boarding pass for is if the seat is not there (a/c swap) or due to an F upgrade.

No flyer should cave in to that game.

. . . This is one of many reasons (i.e. rules on luggage, rules on vouchers/ bumping, misconnects) that the bandwagon for a "Passenger's Bill of Rights" should be rolled back out . . .

Just what on earth does a pax bill of rights do for the equation? The bottom line today is that people want everything and they want no obligation for themselves.

I've sat on enough flights watching infrequent flyers overloaded with carry-ons who slow the boarding process or jam their stuff in an overhead up front while taking a seat in the back ( US is doing a better job focusing upon carry ons). And rules on bumps/misconnects are for the most part clear and reasonably enforced-- though not for the guy who checks in late and can't figure out why they're "it" when a bump comes.

Certainly things are not always seamless on US or any other carrier as situations do pop up on occassion. We just do a PHL-MAD leg where my wife and I were already confirmed UGs coming and going, yet at the airport, the agent pulls us up and the computer lists our tickets as W fares and assigns us to the back. It helps that we have paper tickets indicating M fare basis as well as a print out confirming our confirmed UG status as well as a helpful agent. He straightens out the problem and we're UG and on our way. A bill of rights is the last thing on my mind in these situations.

Policy and procedure usually works, and when it doesn't, flexibility and face to face dialogue ( which really means listening to each other ) most usually solves problems. The last thing I need is some new list of rules which go on top of the existing one. Flying is arduous enough.

Barry

common

exactly ... It's complete BS. I Booked and paid for a flight to FCO in advance. Confirmed row 11 both ways, window. Was moved back to the 2nd last row.

For Christ's sakes US ... At least let a confirmed seat stick. It's stuff like this that gives US a chicken-sh!t reputation.

For Christ's sakes US ... At least let a confirmed seat stick. It's stuff like this that gives US a chicken-sh!t reputation.
This is one of those issues that grinds my gears as an employee, even though it has absolutely no effect on me. I can't begin to understand the frustration thay you all feel.

I just can't fathom why a seat confirmation, once issued by the res system, should change other than the obvious cases of change of equipment, configuration change (like may/may not happen with the 767 update and will happen with narrowbody fleets), or FAMs.

Even a schedule change, as long as it's only a time/flight# change and not resulting in a consolidation of flights, shouldn't matter other than when one of the above issues is involved.

Jim

Well that makes WN better than US by a substantial margin I guess. They never tell you that you can't have the seat that you have chosen. When my butt goes into the seat it is mine. If I am the first one there I am the sole deciding factor as to whether I decide to give it up...trust me. That issue came up with me almost two years ago when the GA at PHL tried to take me out of 7C and put me into 15F for PHL-DFW on a sold-out flight so that a US employee could have 4C. I showed him my BP and told him to get a police officer. He backed down and the US employee went to 15F. The only times I will not sit in the seat that I have a boarding pass for is if the seat is not there (a/c swap) or due to an F upgrade.

No flyer should cave in to that game.

But that was when you were at the airport and had a boarding pass with a seat number on it. That is a wholly different situation to the subject of this discussion, you are not responding to the issue in question, which is a change in seat assignment on a reservation made a long time in advance, not at the airport after you check in.

To quote you 'when a butt goes in a seat it is mine'. yes, it is, after you have checked in. we were not talking about airport issues after checkin, the thread concerned 'confirmed' seat reservations being changed before departure.

perhaps you should consider beginning a new post for this separate topic, as it's not helpful to this thread.

But that was when you were at the airport and had a boarding pass with a seat number on it.
WN doesn't work that way - you don't have a specific seat till "your butt is sitting in it". Think Ryanair instead of BA.

Just reading sorta between the lines, but I think N762HW was refering to the fact that WN makes it clear that you don't get a seat assignment in advance - even at the airport. They're upfront and honest about it.

US, on the other hand, claims to allow advance seat selection then mysteriously takes it away when you're not looking. Promise a benefit then don't deliver.

Jim

. . . This is one of many reasons (i.e. rules on luggage, rules on vouchers/ bumping, misconnects) that the bandwagon for a "Passenger's Bill of Rights" should be rolled back out . . .

Just what on earth does a pax bill of rights do for the equation? The bottom line today is that people want everything and they want no obligation for themselves.

I've sat on enough flights watching infrequent flyers overloaded with carry-ons who slow the boarding process or jam their stuff in an overhead up front while taking a seat in the back ( US is doing a better job focusing upon carry ons).

Barry aka Jerseyfinn raises some excellent points here, and I respectfully and fundementally disagree with him.

Pax these days, IMHO are suffering from some serious downsizing fatigue. It does seem like they want everything- because they've basically had a lot of things taken away (I think we can all agree on that).

Which leads me to make an observation on your carry-on complaint: why the hell are people carrying on seemingly all of their luggage into the cabin? In the last decade, it seems to me that waaaaay more people are taking advantage of this, beyond the traditional biz pax that carry on briefcases and now laptops: why does the vacationing family need to carry-on all of thier clothes?

I think the answer's pretty obvious, particularly w/ US & PHL: Lost baggage (see several threads last week on PHL baggage handlers).
Carrying on pretty much eliminates the possibility of a mishandled bag . This shouldn't be the case- the airline should be able to guarantee the bag arrives with you, and if not, act responsibly and do Everyting to remedy the situation (not act like it's part of the operation and should be expected). Just like they SHOULD be able to preserve your seat reservation, and if, God forbid, there is a change for some reason, they contact you (the technology to do this is out there, as those of us that have flown UA recently know, which, unlike US, lets you know when an equip. change occurs and you've been reseated)

This ain't rocket science.

And rules on bumps/misconnects are for the most part clear and reasonably enforced-- though not for the guy who checks in late and can't figure out why they're "it" when a bump comes.

Certainly things are not always seamless on US or any other carrier as situations do pop up on occassion. We just do a PHL-MAD leg where my wife and I were already confirmed UGs coming and going, yet at the airport, the agent pulls us up and the computer lists our tickets as [B]W fares and assigns us to the back. It helps that we have paper tickets indicating M fare basis as well as a print out confirming our confirmed UG status as well as a helpful agent. He straightens out the problem and we're UG and on our way. A bill of rights is the last thing on my mind in these situations.

Policy and procedure usually works, and when it doesn't, flexibility and face to face dialogue ( which really means listening to each other ) most usually solves problems. The last thing I need is some new list of rules which go on top of the existing one. Flying is arduous enough.

Barry

Barry, not everyone has the patience of Job, and I admire you for your calm, reasoned approach. Cold, infexible rules seem to abut your warm, humane approach. Hey, the airline is run by real flesh and blood people, after all. All I was saying, is that we REALLY NEED to have a BASIC SET OF STANDARDS to hold the airlines to account. "For the most part", "Not always seemless", "usually", well, these caveats only reinforce the need for a standard of service, for which presently there is none.

Touch wood, it seems that we have reached the ebb of this unfortunate chapter of airline travel. Suddenly you've got several airlines rushing to bring pax complimentary amenities in *gasp* Y (renovated cabins, IFE in every seat, nicer, comfortable seats) and promising the moon with new, pax friendly equip (787). Even WN is considering bringing in seat reservations. Maybe we'll even see edible food come back on certain routes (heheheheh- a guy can dream, can't he?). All the more reason to establish this so-called "Bill of Rights" now, instead of years later when they squeeze 830 pax, standing room only, on a 380 for a TA flight.

Kind Regards,
Kendall