I know that the bullet train goes from Tokyo to Kyoto. I would like to know if you can catch the bullet train inside the Narita airport or if you have to go to a different train station to catch the bullet train.

my daughter is living in Kyoto for a year and i will be flying into Tokyo Narita in February to visit her and would like to ride the train from Tokyo to Kyoto.

Thanks.

Cathy Berg

You'll need to take the Narita Express to Tokyo station and change to the bullet train. Try to travel fairly light and allow extra time, and remember the trains in Japan are expensive. I almost missed a flight out of Narita coming from Kyoto because I underestimated how long the trip would take. It would be far easier to fly into Osaka as there is a direct train from Kansai Airport to Kyoto that takes about 80 minutes.

The bullet train does not go to Narita airport. The easiest way to get to it is to get on either the JR Narita Express to Tokyo or Shinagawa. From there you can take a bullet train to Kyoto.

Thanks for your information. I will be flying from DFW to Tokyo Narita on American Airlines non stop. It appears to get a flight out of Tokyo to Osaka there is either a long layover in the Tokyo Airport or i have to change airports in Tokyo. So assuming the trip on the bullet train is 2.5 hours i could almost be all the way to Kyoto (my end destination) by the time i hang around the airport waiting for a flight that will only get me as far as Osaka. That was my rationale on taking the train. I know it is about $150 one way - maybe more- i had a hard time finding the exact train fare on the Japanese Railway web site. Is there a train station inside the Narita airport that would take me to the train station to catch the bullet train?

Thanks.

Cathy Berg

The trip will take over 4 hours - I think the Narita Express from Narita Airport to Tokyo station is over 1 hr, and then the transfer will take about 30 minutes, then a 2.5 hr bullet train. You can buy one ticket for the whole journey, and the ticket booth in Narita Airport generally has people who speak good English!

If you are flying from DFW (assuming this is after AA's KIX service ends), I see the logic on going to NRT and taking the train, it's definitely easier than flying a domestic leg to Osaka.

Please make sure you have familiarised yourself with the benefits of buying a JR rail pass before you travel to Japan.

It is a ticket only available to non-Japan residents and cannot be bought in Japan.

From memory it comes out at around 30,000 yen for 7 days unlimited travel on JR trains. It doesn’t cover the premium Nozomi bullet trains, instead you can use the slightly slower Hikari trains (adding an extra 20-30 minutes for the Kyoto-Tokyo trip). If your daughter is working when you go and visit her, this pass will allow you to make easy day trips to places like Himeji castle, Okayama/Kurashiki and Hiroshima (and the trip from Tokyo-NRT) for no additional expense to the Kyoto-Tokyo return rail fare.

Its discussed at length in this forum, a simple search should yield plenty of info.

Please make sure you have familiarised yourself with the benefits of buying a JR rail pass before you travel to Japan.

It is a ticket only available to non-Japan residents and cannot be bought in Japan.

From memory it comes out at around 30,000 yen for 7 days unlimited travel on JR trains. It doesn’t cover the premium Nozomi bullet trains, instead you can use the slightly slower Hikari trains (adding an extra 20-30 minutes for the Kyoto-Tokyo trip). If your daughter is working when you go and visit her, this pass will allow you to make easy day trips to places like Himeji castle, Okayama/Kurashiki and Hiroshima (and the trip from Tokyo-NRT) for no additional expense to the Kyoto-Tokyo return rail fare.

Its discussed at length in this forum, a simple search should yield plenty of info.

It's a good suggestion - but the JR Pass really only makes financial sense if you will be doing rail travel beyond Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo. So, if you get one, be sure to be able to maximize usage within the 7 day period. I think it is seven days running from time of initial use, so you won't be able to save it for the next visit.

I went from Shinagawa to Kyoto on the Noizumi (sp?) trains.
It cost me about 27,000K yen RT total. That was for a non-reserved ticket. I also found it hard to figure out how much the ticket was and I ended up buying the ticket from the ticket window in Shinagawa (as opposed to the automatic ticket machine). The automatic ticket machine asked me for a 4 digit PIN # (even when I tried to use my credit card). It wouldn't accept the PIN # for my debit card thus you should make sure you either have the cash or just go to the ticket window to buy the ticket. The non-reserved seats are slightly cheaper than the reserved seats - on the Noizumi there were three cars for the non-reserved seats (cars 1 - 3, with car 3 being the smoking car and 1-2 non-smoking). I had to buy 4 tickets total - it's a bit complicated which is another reason to go to the train ticket office in Narita as opposed to the ticket machine. The people at the ticket windows speak some English and the Shinkansen trains have really clear announcements in English. The electronic display boards also switch between Japanese and English which helped me out when I tried to find my train.

One warning though, while the Narita Express trains have luggage racks at the ends of the cars, there were no such racks on the Shinkansen train from Shinagawa to Kyoto.

I also took the Narita Express from Narita to Shinagawa, except that I got off at Shinagawa and stayed at a hotel for 5 nights before making my weekend trip to Kyoto. Since you don't have that requirement you can do as the other posters suggest and just change trains at Tokyo Station.

Also, when I caught the Shinkansen, the destination displayed was 'Shin-Osaka' although every once in a while the board would change and display 'stopping in Nagoya and Kyoto'. I'm not sure what destination the non-Noizumi trains would display, but be prepared for the boards not to display 'Kyoto' as the final destination.

If you are staying in Kyoto for 7 days or less, then the 7 day JR rail pass prob make sense (since the pass is 28300Yen for 7days w/ unlimited rides and a roundtrip btw Tokyo and Kyoto will cost you about the same). But if you are staying longer, then you may want to see if you will be travelling on JR or not.

I have used the JR pass last time w/ my family when we went to Kyoto and Osaka and found it useful and easy to use. You mainly just need to find out the train schedule and can book seat reservation in advance in the JR office in train station. So, we didn't need to figure out the fare each time.

I include the JR homepage and fare info fyi; good & safe travel!

JR homepage - http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/

JR bulet train fare table - http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/charge/index.asp

thank you all for your replies. You have answered alot of the questions i would be asking. I am a pretty adventurous traveler but going to Japan is a whole different ballgame with such a different culture and language. I am just trying to make the transfer from Tokyo to Kyoto as easy as possible.

Fortunately, i have a few months to decide which is going to be the best transportation for me to take.

i was really bummed when i found out American Airlines was cancelling their non-stop service at the end of this month to Osaka. That would have made the trip a little easier.

Cathy Berg

Was this question posted in another forum before being moved here?

Someone recommmended going to Shinagawa Station, Shinagawa Station is a nice station except that not all Tokaido Shinkansens stop at Shinagawa Station. More departures go out of Tokyo Station.

Like LapLap said, we've discussed the rail pass a lot.
Just remember the keypoints that its only valid on JR trains, not subways, monorails or anything else that isn't operated by "JR" Japan Railways.
The voucher can only be purchased outside of Japan, and its not valid on the more frequent Nozomi Shinkansen.
If you do take a Shinkansen to Kyoto use a Hikari Shinkansen.

The 7 day JR Pass is a very good value depending on how much you use it within the time frame of your trip.

If you don't get a JR Pass and decide to pay regular fare, the price difference isn't too bad (If you are only going Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo), plus you have the benefit of using more frequently departing Nozomi Shinkansen Trains trains.

The train station at Narita Airport, is "Narta Airport Station" Terminal 1 or 2 depending on your airline. "Narita Station" is a different train station outside the airport. So if you're buying your ticket or looking at a list of fares make sure you look up Narita Airport Station Terminal X vs. Narita Station.

I know that the bullet train goes from Tokyo to Kyoto. I would like to know if you can catch the bullet train inside the Narita airport or if you have to go to a different train station to catch the bullet train.

my daughter is living in Kyoto for a year and i will be flying into Tokyo Narita in February to visit her and would like to ride the train from Tokyo to Kyoto.

Thanks.

Cathy Berg
Are you planning on staying in tokyo or going straight from narita to kyoto? If the latter than why not just fly from narita to osaka and catch the limobus or train from itami or kansai airport? Ridding in on the NEX and having to naviagate tokyo station isnt fun when you've just goten off a long plane ride and it's your first time in japan.
Cheers
howie
Ps. If your flying in on united/ana/air canada you can buy a japan airpass for JPY 11500 yen per segement + tax which is pretty close to how much the train costs between tokyo and osaka. Jal also offers a similar deal.

One thing you might consider is checking whether Mr. Doi - the English speaking guide I mentioned in another thread here - who lives in Kyoto - could pick you up at the airport. He'll be more expensive than the train - but how much more expensive I don't know. You can write him email and ask. Only reason I mention this is because I think you'll be dead on your feet after arriving from DFW (we were dead on our feet after our trip from Newark).

Other than being dead on your feet - if you buy your whole ticket in Narita - you might leave a little more time than the Japanese do for the transfer at Tokyo station. We did the transfer (we were traveling from Kyoto to Narita) - and found that the time usually allowed for the transfer was a bit unrealistic if you're carrying luggage and aren't familiar with the station). Also - on the train from Tokyo to Kyoto - you can store your luggage at the back of the car. Robyn

One thing you might consider is checking whether Mr. Doi - the English speaking guide I mentioned in another thread here - who lives in Kyoto - could pick you up at the airport.

You mean if the OP flew into KIX or Itami?

It seems like a lot of time, effort and money, to have someone who lives in Kyoto to head all the way out to NRT to pick up a passenger and then go all the way back to Kyoto.

leave some time to navigate tokyo station. the narita express comes in on the marunouchi side and the Shinkansen goes from the other side and this is not obvious. be ready to wander around for hours if you've not done this before. it drove me mad. its like there are two tokyo stations.

also, the bullet train is not very bullet! it doesnt really go that fast on that line, at least. distance from tokyo to kyoto = 370 km. so thats average 148km/h. the regular train from london to newcastle here in the uk would average 143 km/h (380 km in 2.65h) and no one calls that a bullet.

I have taken this train several times after arriving from the US and if you're an adventurous traveler, it's not so bad. Take it for what it is --- a great new adventure in another part of the world. Especially if it is your first time in Japan, don't be in such a hurry to make a fast connection. Tokyo Station, while daunting to some, is a paradise for people-watchers so give yourself ample time to both navigate between trains and take-in the view.

Don't forget about the food - just walking through Tokyo Station is a culinary adventure so give yourself time to look at all the food stalls - and stop to buy a snack or 2 for the train (less expensive and better selection than the cart that goes up and down the aisles on-board.)

One last suggestion - and a well-deserved treat after that long flight - for not too much more money, if you can afford it. I recommend riding in the Green Cars. It's the 1st class equivalent (without the extra service) with much wider seats (2&2 vs. 3&3 in Regular cars) and more peace and quiet.

Whatever you do - enjoy the ride - and I hope you get a clear and sunny day for the beautiful view of Mt Fuji out the right-side windows.

You mean if the OP flew into KIX or Itami?

It seems like a lot of time, effort and money, to have someone who lives in Kyoto to head all the way out to NRT to pick up a passenger and then go all the way back to Kyoto.

Actually - I was thinking Tokyo - but I'm tired and was probably a little brain dead about the distances (a car doesn't go as fast as the bullet train!). I was thinking that his rate for a half day (4 hours) is 22,000 yen - and that he could do a round trip in a half day. Doubt it. On the other hand - his rate for a full day is 44,000 yen (don't know whether extra gas charges would apply for such a trip) - and the trip can be done in a full day - yes? Considering what a first class reserved seat costs - and the fact that the idea of taking 2 trains - with a transfer at Tokyo station - carrying luggage - in a strange country - after a 12-13 hour plane flight - well the sound of it is just exhausting.

Might be one of those travel splurges that is worthwhile. My husband and I took a taxi from Osaka to Kyoto instead of the train - and it wound up costing just a few dollars more than train tickets and a luggage transfer.

Anyway - here is his website. (http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~doitaxi/) And if the OP is interested - she can check for herself. I know that Mr. Doi mentioned that he sometimes picks up tourists in Tokyo for sightseeing trips outside of Tokyo - so it's not totally out of his ballpark. Robyn

P.S. To OP - read some of your other messages - and the Merrill Lynch credit card currently does not have international surcharges. That's what we used in Japan. We were also told that we'd need a lot of cash in Japan - so we brought $1000 in yen for a 3 week trip. Didn't use half of it (almost every place we went except for some small stores and some mom and pop restaurants accepted credit cards) - so we didn't get to try out the ATM card we got specifically for the trip - from E*Trade - which we were told worked fine in Japan.

P.P.S. To OP - I should mention that I am a 59 year old woman - and perhaps I don't travel as well as a 35 year old "road warrior". I was dead on my feet when I arrived in Tokyo. Depending on your tolerance for long trips and jet lag - perhaps you might consider an overnight at Narita airport on arrival - and taking a train to Kyoto early the next morning.

(2&2 vs. 3&3 in Regular cars)
Ordinary Shinkansen cars have 2+3 seating.

also, the bullet train is not very bullet! it doesnt really go that fast on that line, at least. distance from tokyo to kyoto = 370 km. so thats average 148km/h. the regular train from london to newcastle here in the uk would average 143 km/h (380 km in 2.65h) and no one calls that a bullet. -posted by clinicallyobeast
Term bullet train was coined up back when the original Shinkansen 0 sereis trains came out, they looked like a bullet. Though the name has lingured around for anything high speed rail even if the train maynot look like a bullet.

Anything that runs over 200km/h is considered "High Speed Rail"/ "Bullet trains" if you will.

Shinkansens operate up to 270 km/h - 300 km/h in normal service.
Its that there are parts of the line that trains operate slower, parts where they operate at very high speed.

For example the Run from Nagoya to Kyoto you're going at about 230+ km/h. I consider that pretty fast.

The train is amazingly fast - and efficient - and comfortable. Wouldn't have missed taking it for the world (we did 2 legs - Tokyo to Shin-Osaka - and Kyoto back to Tokyo). Only problem is heaping a bunch of travel on a jet-lagged person. The OP will have to decide for herself what her tolerance is.

Actually - I thought of my perfect solution to this trip. Arrive in Narita - get meet and greet service from Tokyo Four Seasons (2 blocks from Tokyo station) - go on limo bus to Four Seasons - rejuvenate at Four Seasons that afternoon/evening - and leave for Kyoto the following morning. If money is no object ;). Robyn

was thinking that his rate for a half day (4 hours) is 22,000 yen - and that he could do a round trip in a half day. Doubt it. On the other hand - his rate for a full day is 44,000 yen (don't know whether extra gas charges would apply for such a trip) - and the trip can be done in a full day - yes? Considering what a first class reserved seat costs - and the fact that the idea of taking 2 trains - with a transfer at Tokyo station - carrying luggage - in a strange country - after a 12-13 hour plane flight - well the sound of it is just exhausting.

You also have highway tolls, 20,000(?) + JPY or so if he's driving kyoto-narita-kyoto. Combined with his fee, seems like a really expensive option to take.

If there is a lot of luggage, takkyubin is not to expensive and next day delivery.

To me it would be more exhausting taking a 6+ (?) hour in a car/van from Narita Airport to Kyoto, than it would to take two fast comfortable trains.

Of course the OP is open to whatever they decide, but if it were going to cost me 44,000-64,000 JPY to get to Kyoto, I'd take the train.

Robyng - I think the journey by car from Kyoto to NRT is 7+ hours
(Some of the drivers on this forum may tell me they've done it in less time - but that will require empty roads and disregard for speed limits)

There may be drivers who are willing to drive from Kyoto to pick someone up at NRT and drive them back to Kyoto, but it won't be cheap, quick or fun. I wouldn't recommend an expensive, long trip on the dull, walled-in expressways of central Honshu.

The other options, such as flying from NRT to ITM or taking a train from NRT via Tokyo to Kyoto, are going to be cheaper, quicker and IMO more comfortable.

leave some time to navigate tokyo station. the narita express comes in on the marunouchi side and the Shinkansen goes from the other side and this is not obvious. be ready to wander around for hours if you've not done this before. it drove me mad. its like there are two tokyo stations.

also, the bullet train is not very bullet! it doesnt really go that fast on that line, at least. distance from tokyo to kyoto = 370 km. so thats average 148km/h. the regular train from london to newcastle here in the uk would average 143 km/h (380 km in 2.65h) and no one calls that a bullet.

Thats because of all the stops at Yokohama, Nagoya etcetera.

Talking about Nagoya, I love the place and have friends living there.
Largest concentration of Pachinko parlours in the world in that city(third lagest city in Japan), a nice harbour with a great Aquarium, insanely good seafood and the best Miso soup you will ever have.
All at unbeatable prices compared to Tokyo and Osaka.

Kyoto is nice too, the old capital of Japan and left relatively unharmed by the US during second world war so it has a lot of really old temples to visit.

It is also the city Nintendo is located in.

leave some time to navigate tokyo station. the narita express comes in on the marunouchi side and the Shinkansen goes from the other side and this is not obvious. be ready to wander around for hours if you've not done this before. it drove me mad. its like there are two tokyo stations.

also, the bullet train is not very bullet! it doesnt really go that fast on that line, at least. distance from tokyo to kyoto = 370 km. so thats average 148km/h. the regular train from london to newcastle here in the uk would average 143 km/h (380 km in 2.65h) and no one calls that a bullet.

Sigh. Where is railroadtycoon when you need him? The distance between Tokyo and Kyoto is 513.6 km. And the Nozomi takes 140 minutes between the two points, for an average speed of 220 km/hr. Top speed in that run is 270 km/hr. London to Newcastle, sure.

Edited to add: It seems that railroadtycoon did get back promptly with a riposte. Mea culpa.

... Edited to add: It seems that railroadtycoon did get back promptly with a riposte. Mea culpa.
Yeah, but I like yours better. ^

JR

also, the bullet train is not very bullet! it doesnt really go that fast on that line, at least. distance from tokyo to kyoto = 370 km. so thats average 148km/h. the regular train from london to newcastle here in the uk would average 143 km/h (380 km in 2.65h) and no one calls that a bullet.
It's 2.5 hrs from Tokyo to Osaka, not Kyoto. This is a distance of 515 km by rail, so the average is rather more respectable 206 km/h.

Me, I'm waiting for the Fastech 360 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASTECH_360) -- no prizes for guessing the maximum speed in production! (They've already gone over 400 km/h in testing.)

(D'oh -- posted this without realizing there was already a whole pageful of replies...)

... and the shinkansen is more punctual, more frequent, more reliable, safer and cleaner than any train I've ever ridden in the UK... and the food is better... and the employees are more polite... and I'd rather go to Kyoto than Newcastle.

Alright, I'll shut up now.
:D

... and the shinkansen is more punctual, more frequent, more reliable, safer and cleaner than any train I've ever ridden in the UK... and the food is better... and the employees are more polite...

And it has toilets too!

And it has toilets too!

Like the guy in the train in Mexico who had to go real bad, but the toilets were all inop. So, he sticks his arse out the window, and as they are turning into a tunnel, the train engineer yells: "Ese cacheton del puro, metase, que ahi viene el tunel!". Can't do that in the Shinkansen, even if the toilets are inop.

I concur with the above posts about taking the shinkansen! :) Having taken the Nozomi twice and the Kodama once (to Hamamatsu), I can definitely raise my glass of juice and say they're the best trains I've taken. I still have good memories of Kyoto and Hamamatsu. Those cities are the greatest places to visit for anyone going to Japan! Osaka's a tad over-commericalized for me IMHO.

I want to try Miyazaki next year -- anyone have good recommendations on where to stay? I want to consider staying at the Sheraton Miyazaki. Comments are welcome.

Pickles, you have a PM. I have been waiting for a response from you for days on end now. ;)

Sanosuke!

Pickles, you have a PM. I have been waiting for a response from you for days on end now. ;)

You asking about next April? In my timeframe, next April is like predicting the weather. I know it will be warmer than January average, but cooler than August on average. Other than that, I can't tell you much. I could be in town, I could be away, I could be permanently barred from re-entry, or I could be dead. Too early to tell, as they say with the polls. You may want to get the peanut gallery lined up for an mjm special instead, featuring liquored-up long-term residents and chicken on sticks. More fun, and more reliable.

I echo the other posters -- the shinkansen is the best way to go. If this is your first time in Japan, I'd recommend taking that leg even if you didn't have to fly into Narita and/or didn't have to visit someone in Kyoto. This is one of the world's truly great train journeys, the food and service are top notch, and if you get lucky, there's a once-in-a-lifetime view of Mt. Fuji.

It's true that Japan, esp. Tokyo, can be discombobulating, that you'll be tired, and that the culture and language are very different. But honestly, even before I spoke the language at all, I felt more comfortable in Japan than I did in France. If you need help, and you can say the name of your destination, people will go far out of their way to help you even if they don't speak English. Even in Tokyo Station at the height of rush hour, people will come running to help a foreigner in distress (I tested this firsthand on my last trip, when I tripped and fell on my face, suitcases flying, and I was surrounded by people trying to help me up and asking if I was OK before I even realized what had happened).

....the train engineer yells: "Ese cacheton del puro, metase, que ahi viene el tunel!".

LOL

The New York Bar at the Hyatt will never be the same now....

Nor will it be the same there sitting across from where Bill Murray once pondered his minutes away in "Lost in Translation" LOL!

Sanosuke!

Robyng - I think the journey by car from Kyoto to NRT is 7+ hours
(Some of the drivers on this forum may tell me they've done it in less time - but that will require empty roads and disregard for speed limits)

There may be drivers who are willing to drive from Kyoto to pick someone up at NRT and drive them back to Kyoto, but it won't be cheap, quick or fun. I wouldn't recommend an expensive, long trip on the dull, walled-in expressways of central Honshu.

The other options, such as flying from NRT to ITM or taking a train from NRT via Tokyo to Kyoto, are going to be cheaper, quicker and IMO more comfortable.

Well this - combined with the tolls - YIKES - would make it a terrible idea.

I really guess it comes down to how the OP deals with travel. I know I was among the walking dead when I arrived in Tokyo (of course - it was a multi-day trip for me - JAX to EWR late on day 1 - with 1 canceled flight - overnight at EWR - then EWR to NRT on days 2/3). If she thinks she can do Dallas/Tokyo and then perhaps 4 hours of train travel with transfers in one "swell foop" - then she should do it. Otherwise - crashing somewhere in Tokyo (either at Narita or near Tokyo station after taking the limo bus into town) - and then going to Kyoto the next morning - seems like a decent "plan B". This is very much a decision based on personal preferences.

Loved the bullet train - but I was wide awake during our trips :) . Robyn

Japan Rail has self guided tours which are really a discounted ticket on the bullet to Kyoto and several other cities. Tokyo Kyoto return with one night hotel in a double room is 19,500 yen/per person. I bought our tickets from the tour desk at the Dai Ichi Annex Hotel in Tokyo. Theoretically, you need two days advance purchase to get the documents delivered to your hotel. As we did not have two days advance we had to meet a courier at Tokyo station which worked out well.

And, the shopping mall under the station is amazing! You won't go hungrey there. :) For that matter, we had some really excellent noodles in Kyoto Station (on the pedestrian bridge over the tracks). Don't take your suitcase to the table though. You will be corrected!

By the way, while the one night stay trip is a deal (much cheaper than just the ticket and includes nice hotel in Kyoto) you can do much better booking second or third nights yourself in Kyoto. Apparenlty, if you "miss" the train you can standby on other trains, but without reserved seat. Don't know if you could book one night hotel in Kyoto and get a train ticket back to Tokyo for a couple of days later.

I plan to make this same trip from Tokyo to Kyoto next month. We'll be arriving after spending two weeks in China.

As we'll be doing some other travel around Japan, we will likely go with the JapanRail pass.

A few of questions...

Is reserved seating necessary? I've ridden trains around Europe never encountered a full car. Of course, Japan is a different animal.

How much better are the green cars vs the standard ones? To give you an idea of what my preferences are, I've ridden the TGV in both 1st and 2nd class and don't really think that there's much point in 1st class. I'm petite, so a bigger seat doesn't do a lot for me. Are there other amenities besides bigger seats that make green cars worthwhile?

I hear the limobus can take forever to get you to your hotel. We're flying into Narita and staying at the Westin in Tokyo. Since we'll have the pass, I'm guessing the best/most efficient option would be to take the Narita Express in to Tokyo, and from there take a taxi to our hotel. I'm not sure we'll be up for navigating the subways with luggage immediately after arriving.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Is reserved seating necessary? I've ridden trains around Europe never encountered a full car. Of course, Japan is a different animal.
Narita Express trains have reserved seating only, we just had a long discussion, but if you are traveling outside of peak travel seasons, the Narita Express rarely sells out, and even in that case there are alternatives.

The Shinkansen trains and Limited Express trains have both unreserved and reserved seating. If you have JR Pass reserved seating is free. Are they neccessary, no they are not, if you board at Tokyo Station, you can luck out on an unreserved seat in the unreserved section. But I always make a reservation anyways, since they are free.
You can make your seat reservations at any JR ticket seat reservation office.

Local, Rapid trains are all unreserved seating.

How much better are the green cars vs the standard ones? To give you an idea of what my preferences are,. I'm petite, so a bigger seat doesn't do a lot for me. Are there other amenities besides bigger seats that make green cars worthwhile?
Again I think its a topic largely discussed. My opinion that its not really worth the extra price. Green seats provide a little more space, but a more padded seat. I've always found regular/ordinary car to be comfortable.

I hear the limobus can take forever to get you to your hotel. We're flying into Narita and staying at the Westin in Tokyo.
Disicussed before, YMMV. The Westin Tokyo is the last stop, but it all depends on traffic.

Since we'll have the pass, I'm guessing the best/most efficient option would be to take the Narita Express in to Tokyo, and from there take a taxi to our hotel. I'm not sure we'll be up for navigating the subways with luggage immediately after arriving.

If it is economic for you to start using your rail pass on your first day of arrival then Tokyo or Shinagawa station then taxi is fine.

Which JR Railpass do you plan to get, and how much (in days) and where will you be traveling ? There are many different versions of the JR pass, just seeing which one maybe more economical for you (if any).

Hope that helps a bit.

...Any advice would be much appreciated!
You can help us help you by giving some more information about your trip. How long will you be in Japan? What travel plans do you have while in Japan? What sort of rail pass do you have in mind? Have you ever been to Japan before? What are your arrival/departure plans? Times?

Just to give you an idea why all that matters, there alternatives for arrival/departure points, depending on where in Japan you wish to travel and for how long. The JR rail pass must be purchased outside of Japan (with a few exceptions like the local Kansai area pass) and is valid for most but not all JR trains but not other trains - ie: the fastest Nozomi shinkansen is not covered. Nor are other companies trains. The rail pass is valid for a set number of days, so planning out the days you will validate for is important - if you need 7 or 14 days of long distance travel around the country, you may not want to validate the pass just for the ride into town from the airport. If the 7 or 14 days will include airport travel days, then you can validate the pass right in the airport and ride free on the N'EX.

My first suggestion is that your initial idea regarding subways is good. After arriving internationally with luggage, the subway, which might be an option for experienced Tokyo hands, is probably a bad choice for a first-time visitor. You can explore the subways when you are rested, not jetlagged and not toting bulky bags. The limobus is a good option for those who just want to let someone else worry about the navigation and who have lots of bags. My option is always the train+cab (or subway), but I never have much luggage and love to watch the scenery go by on the train. If your hotel is the last stop, the bus will take longer, but deliver you right to the hotel. On the train, you will need to transfer selves and bags to a cab. Each has advantages and you know how you travel best.

As for reservations, I've never felt the need to reserve anything except long distance shinkansen trips. I just grab the next airport train or local train as I need them and avoid the highest traffic times during the rush periods. For the shinkansen, I stop in at the first chance to reserve my seats and pay for them at that time. If your travel plans are locked-in before you arrive in Japan, you can make your reservations at the JR station right at NRT. Otherwise, just stop in to one of the larger JR stations during your stay to do the reservations a few days prior to travel. I'm pretty tall, so have used the green car on occasion, but don't really see it as providing much more for the money than ordinary reserved seating. You can specify a non-smoking car. For your general planning, the N'EX and other airport trains (to NGO or KIX) have luggage space in each car for bags as does the shinkansen. Locals and subways do not, for the most part. You probably already know this, but plan to be very punctual when catching Japanese trains, as they always leave on time - right on the dot. Better to sit on the platform and people watch for a minute than try to run to catch the train. :p

Give us a bit more information and the good folks here will have plenty of help to offer.

JR

(Its from my experience people use the term "subway" for everything mass-transit, normally its fine for cities that have one primary rail operator, but when it comes to Japan, and Tokyo especially, a distinction needs to be made in order to avoid confusion with subways, and regional rail operators, for example if someone asked directions by "Subway" to Shinjuku from Tokyo, you can take Tokyo Metro "subway" from Tokyo to Shinjuku, alternately, you have a non subway route, take the JR Chuo line. Depending on how or where you ask, someone might give you one option or both options. The JR Pass is not valid on subways, monorails, etc in Japan, but rather only on trains operated by JR, Japan Railways, with some exceptions)

An alternative you have is when you reach Tokyo by Narita Express, either at Tokyo, Shinagawa, or even Shinjuku Station, you can switch to the JR Yamanote line (local train) to Ebisu Station and walk to the Westin (about 10 or so minutes walk).

I understand what you mean with luggage, the same principle is the same, from subway, or local JR/private rail trains, if you have a lot of luggage you do not wish to mess with the crowds, stairs, escaltors etc and lugging things around on a local train, then you might want to consider a taxi from the station to complete your trip.

I would say taking a taxi from Shinagawa Station to Ebisu, where the Westin is, would be a little cheaper than a taxi from Tokyo Station. But I'm not too sure on this matter.

I agree with abmj-jr:
The limobus is a good option for those who just want to let someone else worry about the navigation and who have lots of bags. My option is always the train+cab (or subway), but I never have much luggage and love to watch the scenery go by on the train. If your hotel is the last stop, the bus will take longer, but deliver you right to the hotel. On the train, you will need to transfer selves and bags to a cab. Each has advantages and you know how you travel best.

Thanks for the responses. That was what I was looking for.

I plan to talk more about my itinerary in a separate post, once I fill in some of the gaps a bit more. (having these questions answered certainly helped with some of those gaps)

But, since it was asked, this is our first trip to Japan, so simple stupid is good this time around. We'll be there a week, which is why we're thinking of a JR Pass. Since we'll have spent the two weeks prior on a family trip with my fiancé's parents, brother, brother's fiancée and her son, the Japan trip is intended to be a nice chance for the two of us to explore and rejuvenate together before heading home and back to our busy lives.

Once again, thanks a bunch for the info!

... this is our first trip to Japan, so simple stupid is good this time around. We'll be there a week, which is why we're thinking of a JR Pass.
A few things come to mind that might help in your planning.

"A week" might mean anywhere from 6 to 8 days or so. If you will depart 7 days after arriving, then a 7-day rail pass should cover all of your stay. You could simply activate it immediately upon arrival, use it for the N'EX and all subsequent JR travel and also use it on the seventh day to return to the airport on the N'EX. If you are actually going to be in country for a week NOT COUNTING arrival and/or departure day, then you will probably just be paying cash for airport transportation at one end of the stay or the other. That is if you arrive and depart at NRT - - -

I assume from your signature block that you will be flying AA, so are probably locked into using NRT. One thing does occur to me though. AA partners with other airlines that fly from China to KIX. You might be able to maximize your time in Japan and avoid backtracking on the train if you fly into KIX on JAL or another AA partner, visit Kyoto for a few days, train to Tokyo for a few days and then depart from NRT on AA - or even JAL. There are some nice things to see and do along the way between those two major points if you have the time. This is the sort of thing we tend to recommend around here for those times it will work - in one airport and out from the other. If it won't work, it won't work and you can always just do all AA through NRT and move back and forth via train. That is the value of the rail pass - those 2-way long distance trips. For only a one-way trip and a couple of airport trains, it is probably not good value.

Anyway, welcome to the Japan forum.

JR

I hear the limobus can take forever to get you to your hotel. We're flying into Narita and staying at the Westin in Tokyo. Since we'll have the pass, I'm guessing the best/most efficient option would be to take the Narita Express in to Tokyo, and from there take a taxi to our hotel. I'm not sure we'll be up for navigating the subways with luggage immediately after arriving.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

It can be a bit pricey to get to the Westin from Tokyo station. The best N'Ex stop is Shibuya, but not too many N'Ex's stop there. Next best is Shinagawa, it's about Y3000 taxi fare from there.

If you want to minimize taxis (and your bags permit it), from Tokyo, Shinjuku, Shibuya, or Shinagawa, transfer to the Yamanote line to Ebisu station. You can exit either exit from Ebisu via escalator and then take a cab to the hotel with your bags, it will only cost Y660.

all of the information that has been posted on this thread is fantastic. I actually think you have given me the "courage" to actually try the bullet train from Narita Station to Kyoto. But i shudder to think if i didn't have the insight into all these postings what i might be like arriving at the Narita Airport, sleep deprived, confused, unable to speak the language, etc. Although my daughter who now lives in Kyoto says that the Japanese people have helped she and her American roommate more than once to determine which train to get on.

Thanks for all the posts.

Cathy Berg

I certainly do not think you'll have much of a language issue especially when booking from Narita Airport to Tokyo and then Tokyo to Kyoto, heavily traveled routes by many visitors. Trains stations have Japanese and English signs, and train annoucments on the Shinkansen and Narita Express are billingual as well.

I hope you have a nice trip, and please report back.

thanks for the information. My trip is in February so it will be a few months before "I report back" but i will after the trip concludes.

Cathy Berg

No prob, just remember the Bullet train "Shinkansen trains" go from Tokyo Station to Kyoto, from Narita Airport to Tokyo you'll be taking the Narita Express a non shinkansen train. The Airport stations are "Narita Airport Station Terminal X (1 or 2)" , "Narita Station" is a seperate rail station outside the Airport.

all of the information that has been posted on this thread is fantastic. I actually think you have given me the "courage" to actually try the bullet train from Narita Station to Kyoto. But i shudder to think if i didn't have the insight into all these postings what i might be like arriving at the Narita Airport, sleep deprived, confused, unable to speak the language, etc. Although my daughter who now lives in Kyoto says that the Japanese people have helped she and her American roommate more than once to determine which train to get on.

Thanks for all the posts.

Cathy Berg

It isn't really a matter of courage. We were fine on the train from Tokyo to Osaka - and back again from Kyoto to Narita. But that was six days/weeks after we arrived in Japan. It really boils down to your own personal stamina -and tolerance for jet leg. If you've never done a 13 hour flight with 13 hours of jet lag - I'd question seriously how up I'd be for four more hours of trains after that trip.

Final decision is up to you. Note that I think that travel is supposed to be fun - not an endurance contest. You should do whatever you think will make you enjoy your trip more. Robyn

Hi! I'm new to the forum and this was a great thread. I had a similar question - i'm going to be in Tokyo in a couple of weeks and will be staying near Shinjuku Station. We're heading to Kyoto in the a.m. and I was contemplating a cab ride to Shinagawa station to catch the shinkansen because we will have luggage. Is the feasible or is it better to just ship the luggage because there's no place to store it on the train? Any guidance would be much appreciated!

Welcome to flyertalk. How much (or large) luggage will you have? The overhead luggage compartments are large enough to hold your airline carry-on luggage sizes. If you have larger ones sometimes there's space at the end of each car, however those spots can be taken YMMV.

If they are really large then deliver service might be your best bet.

If you are delivering or don't have to much luggage, the Chuo Line from Shinjuku cuts across to Tokyo Station, so I would take the Shinkansen out of there.

... Any guidance would be much appreciated!
Welcome to FT and the Japan Forum!

I agree with RRT. The answer to your question is - - it depends.

How much luggage? How are you and your party at handling all of your luggage yourselves in one go? Are you good walkers/carriers or are you likely to need some assistance?

For myself and family, we tend to travel with one roll-aboard and one shoulder bag each and are all strong walkers who handle stairs well and can each handle our own bags easily without assistance. As a result, we save the cost of delivery to spend on other things. We always take our luggage aboard cabs or local trains w/o problems and stash bags in the storage space at the end of each car on the shinkansen. The shoulder bag with essentials goes overhead in the hat & coat rack. This would be difficult with oversized bags and even more difficult if we were juggling several bags each. Cabs are small and have small trunks. Trains have limited space for everyone's luggage. Small works. Large or numerous might not.

For those who travel with multiple bags or have difficulty lifting and carrying all bags at once or using stairs, I also recommend the takkyubin service. Get everything except one small bag with essentials for the trip down to the concierge early in the day and it will all arrive at your new hotel the next day. If you plan well, you can keep enough in a small bag for your last day and night in Tokyo and send everything else ahead the day before leaving yourself. It will be waiting for you at your new hotel when you arrive.

Like I said. Depends. :D

JR

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'm traveling with my parents and we'll each have a full-size suitcase (we're on a multi-leg trip through Japan/Hong Kong) plus our own backpack/shoulder-bag.

I think that while the bag is not so much heavy, i'm probably not going to want to deal with dragging it through the station - especially during something close to rush hour. And, the idea of then not finding adequate storage...

I think i'm convinced, I'll just have them shipped to kyoto for us. thanks again for the great advice! :)

Your backpack and shoulderbags should be fine. I would take out any essentials you might need for the next day and ship your larger luggage a day in advance, so they'll arrive the next day when you head out to kyoto.

[I] tend to travel with one roll-aboard and one shoulder bag each and are all strong walkers who handle stairs well and can each handle our own bags easily without assistance. As a result, we save the cost of delivery to spend on other things.
I just came back from Tokyo about 7hrs ago....and I completed a Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo Shinkansen Nozumi run on Mon/Wed. My medium (almost) large roll-aboard did fine above my seat. Getting a reserved seat and being ready at the platform when the doors open to board ensured plenty of space to choose from, IME. I vote to take it with you and not ship. Good luck to whatever your choice is.

[snip]
Also, when I caught the Shinkansen, the destination displayed was 'Shin-Osaka' although every once in a while the board would change and display 'stopping in Nagoya and Kyoto'. I'm not sure what destination the non-Noizumi trains would display, but be prepared for the boards not to display 'Kyoto' as the final destination.

All westbound Hikari bullet trains stop at Nagoya, Kyoto, and Shin-Osaka, so that makes it easy. Just hop onto a wesbound Shinkansen. (The Kodama trains tend to stop at more stations and not go as far.)

You used to be able to ride the Hikari all the way to Hakata in the city of Fukuoka on the island of Kyushu, but no longer. Now you have to change in Shin-Osaka. To get a non-stop trip to Kyushu, you have to take the Nozomi trains, which are not included in the JR Pass.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'm traveling with my parents and we'll each have a full-size suitcase (we're on a multi-leg trip through Japan/Hong Kong) plus our own backpack/shoulder-bag.

I think that while the bag is not so much heavy, i'm probably not going to want to deal with dragging it through the station - especially during something close to rush hour. And, the idea of then not finding adequate storage...

I think i'm convinced, I'll just have them shipped to kyoto for us. thanks again for the great advice! :)

We did it both ways. Forwarded the luggage (basically one large bag each) on our trip to Osaka - took it with us on our trip back from Kyoto to Narita (mostly because I wasn't sure we'd find the luggage at the airport). Didn't have problems with either - but forwarding the luggage was definitely more pleasant. Robyn

P.S. You may have problems finding a cab that will take 3 people plus the luggage you're talking about. Also - you can run across a lot of stairs in stations. So I vote for luggage forwarding.

Wonderful information in this thread.

We are going to go from Tokyo to Kyoto in September. Since it will be the only JR train my folks will be on during their trip here, we are just going to buy reserved seats for the four of us on Nozomi train.

A couple of specific questions:

We will need takkyubin service to pick up four to six large suitcases at my apartment near Azabu Juban station on a Friday or Saturday and deliver them to Kyoto on Sunday. Does anyone have a recommendation on preferred takkyubins that offer great service and also speak English? What should I expect to pay per suitcase?

We will still have around six to eight rollaboards/duffles between us. I am thinking that we will probably want two taxis to Shinagawa Station. Taking subway either requires Toei Oedo to Toei Asakusa to Keikyu lines or a walk from Daimon to Hamamatsucho to get Yamanote to Tokyo station; neither seems too appealing. About how much is taxi from Azabu Juban station area to Shinagawa? Or, is there a better plan?

Again, thanks for all of your help,

Marc

We will still have around six to eight rollaboards/duffles between us. I am thinking that we will probably want two taxis to Shinagawa Station. Taking subway either requires Toei Oedo to Toei Asakusa to Keikyu lines or a walk from Daimon to Hamamatsucho to get Yamanote to Tokyo station; neither seems too appealing. About how much is taxi from Azabu Juban station area to Shinagawa? Or, is there a better plan?

Again, thanks for all of your help,

Marc

taxi is a the best option from Azabu Juban to Shinagawa. depending on traffic, it should not be more than 1500 yen. i think it is okay to get off at the closer Takanawa exit. some drivers may want to take you to the east/higashi Shinagawa exit, which is marginally closer to the shinkansen tracks, but involves a big loop if the driver does not know the tunnel short cut.

We will need takkyubin service to pick up four to six large suitcases at my apartment near Azabu Juban station on a Friday or Saturday and deliver them to Kyoto on Sunday. Does anyone have a recommendation on preferred takkyubins that offer great service and also speak English?
The best Takkyubin service is of course Takkyubin itself (http://www.kuronekoyamato.co.jp/takkyubin/takkyu.html) :p Unfortunately their website is 100% nihongo, but this page (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2278.html) will give you a pretty good idea of how it works. Their desk at Narita will probably be able to handle English, but a Japanese speaker will come in handy for shipping from your apartment.

Trains:
We did the reverse trip Kyoto to NRT. We even had a lot of luggage. Few things.

1) If you know your time tables get your reserved ticked done at the same time your get the pass for your exchange order. Then you don't have to mess around with the ticket machines.

2) There are no sub ways to take between the Narita Express and the "Bullet Train" so don't get too bent out of shape about having a bag or two.

3) At the end of each bullet train car there is space between the last seat and the wall. Larger luggage can go there. The overheads in the reserved cares is fairly big. You should be able to put two small/medium sized bags up there easy.

About Takkyubin:
When you're at a Hotel you can drop you bags at the bell hop desk, tell them what hotel to deliver it to and be done with it. They'll do all the paperwork and usually call the hotel and verify everything. The bell hop took cash when I used the service (about 2800 yen for three smallish bags).

Next best places to drop off are Travel Centers/Agencies and Airports. The local 7-11 is the least likely to have good english speakers. A japanese speaker is highly recommended. If you can't swing that the Info/Tourist desks are a good place to ask.

Finally, if you flew in JAL (whish code shades AA IIRC) they offer their own Takkyubin service that will check your bags into the flight. Give them 2 days for Kyoto, 1 day from Tokyo.

Hi! I'll be going to Japan in June. Going to visit Tokyo and Kyoto. Trying to decide on a railpass or not... I'd be taking a round trip to Kyoto and trips to and from NRT as well as trips on the line that circles Tokyo from and to Shinjuku. A rail pass seem easiest and a bit cheaper but I'd also really like to experience the best Japan has to offer trainwise which, I assume, is the Nozumi.

Am I correct in figuring the fare from Tokyo to Kyoto? (without a pass, of course)
Nozumi is 7980+5540 for a reserved seat
Hikara is 7980+5240 for reserved

Are there any charges I'm missing? Do you think I would have problems without a reservation on Nozumi trains in mid-June?

Thank you!

... Am I correct in figuring the fare from Tokyo to Kyoto? (without a pass, of course)
Nozumi is 7980+5540 for a reserved seat
Hikara is 7980+5240 for reserved

Are there any charges I'm missing? Do you think I would have problems without a reservation on Nozumi trains in mid-June?

Current oneway prices for Tokyo-Kyoto are 13,720 yen (Nozomi) and 13,420 yen for the Hikari - a difference of less than $3.00 US each way. The Nozomi averages about 20-25 minutes faster for the 513 km trip. Very little difference in price and not much faster travel. Most of the longer Hikari time comes from additional station stops rather than significantly lower speed.

So, for ONLY the Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo roundtrip, there is not really all that much difference between Nozomi and Hikari RailStar. The advantage in the Rail Pass comes with convenience and the fact that it covers all that other travel - Narita Express, Yamanote Line, Kyoto-Nara or Osaka, if you do that.
YMMV.

As for shinkansen reservations, I have never needed one in advance. I just buy my ticket a day or two in advance and have always gotten great seats. Even day-of purchases are usually fine, although you may need to opt for unreserved seats in the last couple of cars rather than reserved, assigned seating up front.

June is not a high travel time in Japan, although it IS the typhoon season. Be prepared for weather.

JR

JR - thanks for the quick answer! i've been reading posts on the tokyo-kyoto trains the last few days and your posts have been very helpful.

I've just re-read mileposts 48-60 in this thread (having read the entire very helpful thread in the past), yet I still have one question. We are two pax, likely with a total of three medium-sized bags and one larger bag. Will reserving a Green Car on the Nozomi Osaka-Kyoto-Tokyo improve the baggage situation at all? I'm thinking that because of fewer pax in the carriage, we'll have at least marginally better chances of storing our luggage.

Here's the background. We stayed in Tokyo for five days in December 2005. We took the Nozomi down to Kyoto and back on Christmas Day, largely for purposes of taking the train with the added benefit of having a beautiful destination at the end. We'll be going back this year in December (I'm planning early because we're on FF tix). The plan, one many have recommended, is to fly into KIX and spend two nights in Osaka. Take the train to Kyoto and stay there four nights, with a side-trip to Nara one day. Then take the Nozomi to Tokyo for two nights before flying out of NRT. Last year, on the Nozomi we had just cameras and what-not for walking around during the day. This year, we'll have all of our baggage with us for the entire eight days in Japan. I know the N'Ex has adequate baggage-storage facilities, and based on other threads I expect the Kansai trains do too (please correct me if I'm wrong). I know from this thread that we'll have access to overhead racks for at-most-medium-sized bags and some modest storage at the end of the carriage for larger bags. Will upgrading to the Green Car improve the baggage situation at all? I'm thinking of doing it anyway, but wondering if the extra baggage would be a good rationalization, you know?

Relatedly, should we take the Nozomi from Osaka to Kyoto? Or would we be better off buying a Kansai-area JR rail pass for four days or so that would cover our KIX-Express, Osaka-Kyoto, and Kyoto-Nara side trip? Can we reserve a Green Car on those trains? Am I correct that, because of the non-Nozomi rule for JR passes, we'd be on a Hikari for Osaka-Kyoto?

A great many thanks to all who have posted so much valuable information in this thread (and others). I appreciate your expertise very much.

I've just re-read mileposts 48-60 in this thread (having read the entire very helpful thread in the past), yet I still have one question. We are two pax, likely with a total of three medium-sized bags and one larger bag. Will reserving a Green Car on the Nozomi Osaka-Kyoto-Tokyo improve the baggage situation at all? I'm thinking that because of fewer pax in the carriage, we'll have at least marginally better chances of storing our luggage.

Here's the background. We stayed in Tokyo for five days in December 2005. We took the Nozomi down to Kyoto and back on Christmas Day, largely for purposes of taking the train with the added benefit of having a beautiful destination at the end. We'll be going back this year in December (I'm planning early because we're on FF tix). The plan, one many have recommended, is to fly into KIX and spend two nights in Osaka. Take the train to Kyoto and stay there four nights, with a side-trip to Nara one day. Then take the Nozomi to Tokyo for two nights before flying out of NRT. Last year, on the Nozomi we had just cameras and what-not for walking around during the day. This year, we'll have all of our baggage with us for the entire eight days in Japan. I know the N'Ex has adequate baggage-storage facilities, and based on other threads I expect the Kansai trains do too (please correct me if I'm wrong). I know from this thread that we'll have access to overhead racks for at-most-medium-sized bags and some modest storage at the end of the carriage for larger bags. Will upgrading to the Green Car improve the baggage situation at all? I'm thinking of doing it anyway, but wondering if the extra baggage would be a good rationalization, you know?

Relatedly, should we take the Nozomi from Osaka to Kyoto? Or would we be better off buying a Kansai-area JR rail pass for four days or so that would cover our KIX-Express, Osaka-Kyoto, and Kyoto-Nara side trip? Can we reserve a Green Car on those trains? Am I correct that, because of the non-Nozomi rule for JR passes, we'd be on a Hikari for Osaka-Kyoto?

A great many thanks to all who have posted so much valuable information in this thread (and others). I appreciate your expertise very much.

There are many options for travel between Osaka and Kyoto. The Shinkansen seems like overkill, although I used that route once years ago when I ended up staying out late in Osaka and wanted to get back to my hotel in Kyoto as soon as possible.

There are a number of private railroads going from various points in Osaka to various points in Kyoto, and depending on where your hotels are located, one of them may be more convenient. (There are excellent Periplus travel maps for both Osaka and Kyoto, with the Kyoto map including Nara and both including information on the rail network.)

You can buy a Surutto Kansai card for your travels on private railroads in the Osaka-Kyoto area. You don't save any money, but since fares tend to be cheaper on the private lines than on JR, a ¥5000 card will take you a long way. You can buy them at any subway or non-JR station in the region.

Just one caution: these trains are commuter trains, so they largely lack the comfort of the intercity trains. You may not want to try them with luggage.

However, once you're settled into your hotel, they're fine for daytrips to places like Nara or Uji and give ou an up-close look at average middle class Japanese life.

Relatedly, should we take the Nozomi from Osaka to Kyoto? Or would we be better off buying a Kansai-area JR rail pass for four days or so that would cover our KIX-Express, Osaka-Kyoto, and Kyoto-Nara side trip? Can we reserve a Green Car on those trains? Am I correct that, because of the non-Nozomi rule for JR passes, we'd be on a Hikari for Osaka-Kyoto?

The JR West Kansai Area pass covers NONE of the Shinkansen routes between Osaka and Kyoto.

You could however take the Haruka (Airport train) from Osaka-Kyoto with the the pass. However, both the Shinkansen and Haruka depart from Shin-Osaka Station, not Osaka Station.

Another note is that you don't even need to step foot on the Shinkansen to get from Osaka to Kyoto. You can take the JR Rapid train that departs from Osaka Station to Kyoto Station.
Alternately, there are Limited Express trains on Hankyu Railways from Umeda Station (next to Osaka Station) into Central Kyoto. (the cheapest option but just as fast depending on where you want to end up in Kyoto).

If you do have luggage these trains do get busy so that would certainly be a problem, but can be a bit easier if you decide to stay in either Kyoto or Osaka for 5 days in stead of the 2/4 split, this way, the day you arrive you can take ie the Haruka Limited express to Kyoto, check in your hotel and store all your luggage to the day you check out to Tokyo. If it were me I'd consolidate the hotels in Osaka and Kyoto into one, either in Osaka or Kyoto, the cities are close transportation wise, i'd be a pain the day you have to check out, carry your luggage on transportation to re-check in, plus the time lost.

As others have alluded, the Osaka-Kyoto split is a little problematic. You could certainly do it that way but it complicates your travel a bit. On the JR Haruka from KIX, it is only another 30 minutes or so to continue on from Osaka to Kyoto. When traveling into KIX, I prefer to just go all the way to Kyoto and leave Osaka for day visits. That way, I don't have to do a hotel move with luggage in the middle of my Kansai stay. The Haruka has plenty of luggage space.

The best reason to include an Osaka stay in your itinerary would be if you are nightlife people and want to immerse yourselves in the Osaka nightlife and restaurant scene. A few of our regular posters do just that and are very happy with it. I tend to nest up in my hotel for the evening quite early and spend my time getting out early in the morning and seeing things during the day. In that case, it just makes more sense to stay in one hotel and use the extensive train system to see other, nearby cities. YMMV.

The shinkansen makes little sense between Osaka and Kyoto since the trip is so short. The Haruka would be a "high-end" option from Shin-Osaka or Tennoji Station to Kyoto but the local trains would be a lot cheaper. See Railroadtycoon's post above.

JR

Given the stuff I've seen people schlep on to local trains in Japan, I'd say you can still make it without going for green cars and shinkansen and such for this 35-40 minute (max) ride. It would not be a quality experience during morning rush hour, but even then it is probably doable.

If you don't need ALL your bags the same day, a takyubbin service will deliver them hotel-hotel for a reasonable price overnight -- admittedly, most wouldn't use them for a trip this short, but for comfort, it sure can't be beat for Y3,000-4,000 or so, and the hotels at both ends will take care of everything for you, so you don't have to bother at all.

You've got a couple different issues to look at when you consider getting a JR pass or not. You're frontloading your trip with Kyoto and Osaka, that changes the whole rail pass. I found that for the most part JR didn't go to the places I wanted to visit in Kyoto. I ended up using private rail/subway for the most part. Maybe connecting with JR to get a more direct hop to Kyoto station. On the other hand, in Toyko I was using JR almost exclusively. So, how much value will you get out of Shinkansen, NRT express and some misc travel?

The issue of baggage is really a matter of convenience vs money. If it's about money take the Hikari/Nozomi between Kyoto and Tokyo. Standard car is a 3x2 sear config. Green car is a 2x2 configuration. If you go during off peak hours it likely won't make a difference because it won't be that crowded. If you have a JR pass you'll be on the Hikari (no big deal).

On the other hand for convenience I'd use the Takuhaibin as much as possible and relax. Keep in mind you've usually got a 1 day lag. I recommend traveling with a small bag with a change of cloths and personal items. Toting around 1 or 2 small roller carry on sized bags is fairly easy.

Also keep in mind that people tend to pick of a lot of stuff in Kyoto/Osaka. Your bag won't get any lighter! :)

We took a taxi from Osaka to Kyoto (arranged by the concierge at the hotel). Can't remember exactly how much it cost - but the price wasn't shocking (wasn't a very long trip either). Didn't wind up costing much more than 2 green train tickets - plus transfers to/from the train stations. Robyn

We took a taxi from Osaka to Kyoto (arranged by the concierge at the hotel). Can't remember exactly how much it cost - but the price wasn't shocking (wasn't a very long trip either). Didn't wind up costing much more than 2 green train tickets - plus transfers to/from the train stations. Robyn

Robyn - I think you should preface your advice with the comment that you prefer to travel in some style and comfort and don't worry (much) about the expense. That's fine, but I'd be reluctant to follow your advice because I am more price sensitive...

I estimate that a taxi from Umeda (i.e. the area of the Ritz Carlton) to Kyoto station (i.e. the area of the Granvia hotel) would cost about 12,000yen. (660yen for the first 2km + 80yen for every subsequent 275m. Total distance is roughly 40km).. A local expert, such as a concierge, might know some taxi companies who would discount for this trip. (Maybe 10%?)

For comparison - the same trip is 540yen per person on a regular JR train.

If you compare the taxi trip with a taxi to Shin Osaka, then two shinkansen green car tickets to Kyoto... the taxi would still be more expensive, but it might start to look like not such a bad value.

A great many thanks to everyone for your very insightful input. For my part, I'll say that I've come to the following tentative conclusions after reading your responses and doing some additional research on the JR West and JR Central websites. Notably, jib71 put his finger pretty much on the dot of the hotels we're considering in Osaka and Kyoto.

We'll probably want to take the Haruka KIX-Shin Osaka, then backtrack to Osaka Station. That is, unless you'd advise (based on the time it takes to backtrack, hassle of changing trains, distance of walk from Osaka Stn. to RC vs. cost of taxi from Shin Osaka to RC) just taking a taxi from Shin Osaka to the Ritz.

For Osaka-Kyoto, a Shinkansen is probably overkill. Only reasons to do it would be for space in the Green Car and foreshadowing the full-blown Nozomi treatment to Tokyo four days later. So for that, we'll probably take a JR train or other private train.

Don't think we'll need to use JR trains or private trains to get around Kyoto. We're young and we love to walk everywhere. The Kyoto subway and a few taxis should take care of us. That said, if we buy a pass, we might as well put it to use.

Then it's JR (or other private rail?) to Nara and back for a day. Scheduling of the day trip might be dictated by whether we buy a JR pass (such as a 4-day pass) that covers the Haruka, Osaka-Kyoto, and Kyoto-Nara-vv. That will in turn be driven by price. I've read in another thead in the Japan forum that buying the pass can be cheaper than a simple KIX Haruka ticket, so it might make sense.

After all that, it's the Nozomi to Tokyo. I expect our hotel will be around the Imperial Palace area, or maybe in Ginza, so we'd likely just take a taxi from Shin-Tokyo to the hotel. Finally, N'Ex out to Narita.

That's a lot of trains. Good thing I enjoy trains as much as planes. Good trains, that is, like they have in Japan. ;)

Thanks again to all. Arigato!

One more thing. I gave some thought to the suggestion of just staying in Kyoto and day-tripping to Osaka. We might want to explore some Osaka nightlife, though not necessarily. We definitely want to dine in Osaka (mmmmm... my first taste of genuine Kobe beef and other delicacies). And, though the train journey is short, I want to make sure we can maximize our time in Osaka, getting a full day of exploring. Plus, I just want to stay at the RC there. But we don't want to stay there the whole time because, based on the same considerations, we want to maximize our time in Kyoto. We'll be doing some moving around, yes, but we'll manage. I appreciate the suggestion, though.

We'll probably want to take the Haruka KIX-Shin Osaka, then backtrack to Osaka Station.

No need to "backtrack" - You can take the Haruka to Nishi Kujo. Then change to the Osaka Kanjo line to Osaka station. (or get a cab from Nishi Kujo).

For Osaka-Kyoto, a Shinkansen is probably overkill. Only reasons to do it would be for space in the Green Car and foreshadowing the full-blown Nozomi treatment to Tokyo four days later. So for that, we'll probably take a JR train or other private train.
Take the JR train from Osaka station to Kyoto station. 540yen.

Don't think we'll need to use JR trains or private trains to get around Kyoto. We're young and we love to walk everywhere. The Kyoto subway and a few taxis should take care of us. That said, if we buy a pass, we might as well put it to use.
I recommend buses or rental bicycle for travel within Kyoto.

Then it's JR (or other private rail?) to Nara and back for a day. Scheduling of the day trip might be dictated by whether we buy a JR pass (such as a 4-day pass) that covers the Haruka, Osaka-Kyoto, and Kyoto-Nara-vv. That will in turn be driven by price.

The four day Kansai-area pass is barely worth it.
The four day pass is 6000yen
KIX to Osaka by Haruka = 2620yen
Osaka to Kyoto = 540yen
Kyoto to Nara and back costs from 1300 to 1600yen

Many of the railway lines in Osaka and Kyoto are private. And buses are often better than trains for getting around Kyoto...

BUT - The one day pass is an "instant" money saver
A one-day Kansai area pass = 2000yen (allows unreserved seating on Haruka)
KIX to Osaka by Haruka = 2620yen

JR WEST PASS information - http://www.westjr.co.jp/english/travel/jrp/index.html

BTW - I favour the Kintetsu line for the trip to Nara. The Kintetsu Nara station is somewhat closer to Nara's main attractions.
we'd likely just take a taxi from Shin-Tokyo

Just "Tokyo" not Shin-Tokyo. (Shinkansen and other lines are all in the same vast station).

No Shin-Tokyo station, just Tokyo Station. The "Shin-" just means "new" and is not short for "Shinkansen" Station.

Don't think we'll need to use JR trains or private trains to get around Kyoto. We're young and we love to walk everywhere. The Kyoto subway and a few taxis should take care of us. That said, if we buy a pass, we might as well put it to use

I too recommend taking the local bus network (there's a bus navi map you can pick up with most of the major sights and which bus lines will take you there), I often do a bus/subway combination if there's traffic, going to the nearest subway station then changing to a bus for the rest of the route.

I am with jlb71 on the Kyoto-Nara trip, unless I had a valid JR pass (and I wouldn't validate one just to include this trip), I'd go by private rail. While the private rail station is closer to the sights, it's only a block closer, so that's not the reason for me. There are two other reasons:

1. A regular train on Kintetsu is cheaper than JR.

2. If you want to do a minor splurge, the Kintetsu line has fairly frequent limited expresses on this route that are more comfortable than JR.

Thanks for all of the additional input.

I know "Shin-" means "new," and is not meant to indicate shinkansen. I could have sworn I saw the station in Tokyo called Shin-Tokyo, but I suppose not. Now that I think about it, since it's immediately adjacent to the old Dutch-inspired main Tokyo railway stations, calling part of it (where, yes, the shinkansen starts) wouldn't have made sense, unless you wanted to split hairs. At least I didn't confuse anyone.

Well. my friends Jib, RRT and Richard have all gotten in ahead of me but I will jump on board with some of their recent suggestions.

For Kyoto-Nara-Kyoto, the Kintetsu Electric Line is the way to go. The limited express is very comfortable and fast and the regular trains are still better and cheaper than the JR line. The Kintetsu station in Nara is more conveniently located, just a short walk from the major sights. If you are walkers, you shouldn't even need local transportation in Nara although there is a pretty good bus system that circles all the sites.

Local transportation in Kyoto is all about the great bus system (or bikes if you are into that.) A combined bus/subway pass will get you everywhere easily. Cabs are plentiful but more expensive. I use cabs when I want to splurge or am in a hurry. The bus/subway pass comes in 1000y and 3000y prepaid denominations - the 3k includes a little discount, being worth 3300y in rides. You can get the pass at the transport office right outside the Karasuma exit at Kyoto Station or many of the major stations around town. Just slip it into the gate ticket reader for the subway or the machine by the driver on the bus as you get off. Very convenient.

LapLap posted a link to a PDF of the bus navi map available from the Tourist Information Center. You can get your own copy at the TIC on the 9th floor of the Kyoto Station. The link is: http://www.city.kyoto.jp/kotsu/brochure/bus_navi/pdf/bus_navi_en200603.pdf . For the major tourist sites, pay particular attention to routes 100 and 101, which are tourist specific.

JR

A great many thanks to everyone for your very insightful input. For my part, I'll say that I've come to the following tentative conclusions after reading your responses and doing some additional research on the JR West and JR Central websites. Notably, jib71 put his finger pretty much on the dot of the hotels we're considering in Osaka and Kyoto.

We'll probably want to take the Haruka KIX-Shin Osaka, then backtrack to Osaka Station. That is, unless you'd advise (based on the time it takes to backtrack, hassle of changing trains, distance of walk from Osaka Stn. to RC vs. cost of taxi from Shin Osaka to RC) just taking a taxi from Shin Osaka to the Ritz.

For Osaka-Kyoto, a Shinkansen is probably overkill. Only reasons to do it would be for space in the Green Car and foreshadowing the full-blown Nozomi treatment to Tokyo four days later. So for that, we'll probably take a JR train or other private train.

Don't think we'll need to use JR trains or private trains to get around Kyoto. We're young and we love to walk everywhere. The Kyoto subway and a few taxis should take care of us. That said, if we buy a pass, we might as well put it to use.

Then it's JR (or other private rail?) to Nara and back for a day. Scheduling of the day trip might be dictated by whether we buy a JR pass (such as a 4-day pass) that covers the Haruka, Osaka-Kyoto, and Kyoto-Nara-vv. That will in turn be driven by price. I've read in another thead in the Japan forum that buying the pass can be cheaper than a simple KIX Haruka ticket, so it might make sense.

After all that, it's the Nozomi to Tokyo. I expect our hotel will be around the Imperial Palace area, or maybe in Ginza, so we'd likely just take a taxi from Shin-Tokyo to the hotel. Finally, N'Ex out to Narita.

That's a lot of trains. Good thing I enjoy trains as much as planes. Good trains, that is, like they have in Japan. ;)

Thanks again to all. Arigato!

jib71 is correct. I am somewhat (but not totally) price insensitive. I recalled the cab as costing about 100 dollars US (but couldn't remember exactly) - so the estimate of 12,000 yen sounds about right. I think it was maybe $20-30 more than the trains we looked at - plus the transfers - but even if it was $50 more - it was simply the easiest way to get us and our luggage from Osaka to Kyoto.

We arrived in Shin Osaka from Tokyo. It isn't a long cab ride to the RC from there. Unless I was a traveler on a limited budget - I'd take the cab. The main (old) station in Osaka is just a few blocks walk from the Ritz Carlton. Only issue would be whether you can handle your luggage easily. If I were taking the train from Osaka to Kyoto - I'd use the old train station (even if the trains take a little longer - the 2 cities aren't that far apart).

If you're really into nightlife and restaurants of a more contemporary variety - perhaps you could stay in Osaka and take day trips to Kyoto? I realize that's not the way people usually do things - but most of the things to do in Kyoto that I liked were daytime things. There seemed to be a lot of "gentlemen's clubs" in Kyoto - not my cup of tea ;) - and also some very traditional dining venues (we tried one for lunch - and one for dinner). Overall - I liked the night scene in Osaka better (but you have to keep in mind that I am not much of a night scene/club person anywhere - although I do love exploring restaurants).

If you're staying at the RC - I can recommend the tempura restaurant there highly (didn't try the other restaurants - but they all looked pretty good).

One more thing about Kyoto. Even if you are young and love to walk - the important sights are pretty spread out - and some areas are a bit hilly. And the neighborhoods between a fair number of sights aren't all that interesting (think smaller low rise somewhat contemporary city). And there are a lot of things to see - even if you only want to see 25% of them. So I'd get a map and organize my sightseeing at least a couple of days in advance so you don't find yourself criss-crossing the city a half dozen times. Robyn

I will be going on my first trip to Japan during the second week of March. I definitely appreciate all of the tips in this thread! We are going for a 9 day trip, with a 7 day JR Pass... I am the sort that loves to take trains in foreign countries, so we'll definitely be maximizing it for some lengthy segments.

I noticed a lot of mention of how luggage can be a pain, especially on the subway & "rapid" (local?) trains. For two of us, we plan on doing entirely airplane carryon: Two small napsacks and two (overhead-compartment-friendly) rolling bags. Would this be considered "bulky"?

noticed a lot of mention of how luggage can be a pain, especially on the subway & "rapid" (local?) trains. For two of us, we plan on doing entirely airplane carryon: Two small napsacks and two (overhead-compartment-friendly) rolling bags. Would this be considered "bulky"?

If it fits in the overhead bin of an airplane its probably going to fit in the overhead compartments of the Shinkansen. For local/commuter trains etc, it shouldn't be much of a problem unless you got onboard with those bags during the height rush hour where things are more jam packed, otherwise you should be fine.

I noticed a lot of mention of how luggage can be a pain, especially on the subway & "rapid" (local?) trains. For two of us, we plan on doing entirely airplane carryon: Two small napsacks and two (overhead-compartment-friendly) rolling bags. Would this be considered "bulky"?
That's OK for two persons. I traveled solo with half that amount and never had problems.

If you are going to use coin lockers (http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2274.html) to store your rolling bags while sightseeing (they are found at virtually every railway station and are very convenient), keep in mind that most common "small-size" coin lockers are sometimes a little bit smaller than the carry-on size. I had no problem with a semi-soft rolling bag, but I can imagine that a hard case may not fit into some.

Another thing I found out the hard way is that when you make separate reservations for consecutive nights at the same hotel via Expedia, Japanese tend to merge them into a single reservation. When you cancel one of the nights, this single reservation gets canceled and then you have a problem when you arrive. For me, the problem always meant an upgrade into a nicer (and available) room, but I suppose the luck can also turn the other way round.

Two small napsacks and two (overhead-compartment-friendly) rolling bags. Would this be considered "bulky"?

There should be no problem storing that on a train where you have a reserved seat. (Since the trains with reserved seating generally have overhead storage and space behind the last row of seats).

You might feel awkward if you want to haul that cargo onto a commuter train during rush hour. (I occasionally see a person wheeling a large-size suitcase onto a sardine-tin train at 08.00am. People are polite about it - but you know they're frustrated). And if you're standing in a commuter train with a pack on your back, you can guarantee that someone is going to bulldoze into it with no regard to your comfort - they'll consider you very inconsiderate for not having removed it and placed it overhead.

You should also be aware that you may have to climb (and descend) flights of stairs in some stations. Lighter is better...

Duplicate

There should be no problem storing that on a train where you have a reserved seat. (Since the trains with reserved seating generally have overhead storage and space behind the last row of seats).

You might feel awkward if you want to haul that cargo onto a commuter train during rush hour. (I occasionally see a person wheeling a large-size suitcase onto a sardine-tin train at 08.00am. People are polite about it - but you know they're frustrated). And if you're standing in a commuter train with a pack on your back, you can guarantee that someone is going to bulldoze into it with no regard to your comfort - they'll consider you very inconsiderate for not having removed it and placed it overhead.

You should also be aware that you may have to climb (and descend) flights of stairs in some stations. Lighter is better...

Re the stairs - that is an understatement with regard to a lot of stations - especially subway stations. Even with big deal transfers - like Shinkasen into Tokyo Station and transfer to Narita Express - there is a lot of walking - a lot of ups and downs - and very limited elevator service. At a lot of "regular" train stations - there is nothing but stairs - and sometimes a ton of them (both up and down). My husband and I are 60ish - and sometimes - even the stairs without luggage were quite a lot to handle. Anyway - I'd be sure if I were taking luggage around - that I could drag it up or down at least 2 or 3 full flights of stairs.

Note that Japan is not the most handicap friendly country in the world - and that - at more than a few train stations - if you can't handle the stairs - the "handicap service" consists of carrying you up and down. Which is why it's not unusual to see very elderly people taking a *whole* lot of time climbing up and down those stairs. Robyn

Thank you all for the quick responses...

I am used to walking very long distances when I travel -- sounds like Japan will be no exception.

So I have read through many of the emails but am hoping someone can help me.

My girlfriend and I are going to Japan for 9 days. We will be in tokyo for the first 4 then Kyoto for 4 and Tokyo for 1. I am trying to figure out if buying the Rail Pass for 7 days is the best thing to do, since we could just get daily passes in the city and then pay the RT to Tokyo-Kyoto. I cant find a price for the Tokyo-Kyoto part and am not sure if the Rail pass would be good for use just going around Tokyo or Kyoto.

Thanks!
Lei

My girlfriend and I are going to Japan for 9 days. We will be in tokyo for the first 4 then Kyoto for 4 and Tokyo for 1. I am trying to figure out if buying the Rail Pass for 7 days is the best thing to do, since we could just get daily passes in the city and then pay the RT to Tokyo-Kyoto. I cant find a price for the Tokyo-Kyoto part and am not sure if the Rail pass would be good for use just going around Tokyo or Kyoto.

Thanks!

A round trip ticket even by Nozomi comes out to just under the price of a JR Rail Pass (about 13500 each way/ or about 27000 r/t). The JR Pass is 28300 yen for ordinary.

However, if you combine it with some JR Transport in Tokyo, or back to Narita or out of Kyoto (to Nara/Osaka etc etc). The JR pass is certainly worth it.

The JR Pass isn't that useful in Kyoto itself (city bus and subway not valid with JR Pass), so you would still have to purchase a seperate city pass for that, but as mentioned above the JR pass can pay itself off.
Other limitations include not being able to use Nozomi Shinkansen but Hikari/Kodaka, however the Pass I think if you get it would save you some yen in transportation.

Agree with RRT above. If you opt for them, I'd suggest activating your passes 7 days before your departure from Japan. That would mean you would pay out of pocket for the trip into Tokyo from NRT upon arrival and any travel around town during the first couple of days. After activation, your passes would be good for Yamanote line travel around Tokyo, any JR line travel in and around Tokyo, your round trip Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo on the Hikari RailStar shinkansen, JR travel around the Kansai region while in Kyoto (for example, to/from Himeji or Nara) and the Narita Express back to NRT for departure.

Even if you don't save very much, the JR Pass also adds a lot of convenience. That is worth something in the calculation.

JR

I'd suggest activating your passes 7 days before your departure from Japan.

I think you mean activate it before leaving Tokyo. If you are coming in late march or after March, you can take advantage of the new Suica-Nex combo (see other thread), so you can ride into Tokyo for 1500 yen on the NEX and have 2000yen on your Suica card to ride around until you activate your JR Pass for the rest of your trip into Kyoto and back to Tokyo and back to NRT.

your round trip Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo on the Hikari RailStar shinkansen,

The Hikari Railstar runs west of Osaka, for Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo regular "Hikari Shinkansen" trains run.

...The Hikari Railstar runs west of Osaka, for Tokyo-Kyoto-Tokyo regular "Hikari Shinkansen" trains run.
You're right. Brain f*rt on my part.

My reasoning on activating the pass to include the last 7 days of the visit (including the day of departure) is to permit its use for JR travel in and around Tokyo before leaving for Kyoto. Might as well get full use out of it.

JR

I have no objections with that, I would activate the Pass on day Three, leaving the first two days with single fare tickets, but if you get the NEX-SUICA I think it works out pretty well.

Thanks for all of the additional input.

I know "Shin-" means "new," and is not meant to indicate shinkansen.....

Break sown the word

shin=NEW
kan=TRUNK
sen=ROUTE/LINE

So the original Tokkaido Line was the main trunk line from Tokyo-Kansai area....the Shinkansen was the new one.

If you are on the Yamanote Line...if you listen in Japanese, it is Yamanote Sen -