My wife and I will be in BKK the week of Oct 15. We're staying at the Sofitel Silom and have a few activities scheduled, like a class at Baipai cooking school.

Any advice on day trips or overnights would be greatly appreciated. We're already thinking of a day trip by boat to Ayutthaya, and an overnight (by train?) to Hao Hin.

Thanks in advance for your help.

An overnight trip to Kanchananburi (JEATH War Museum and War Cemetery) and Erawan National Park is worthwhile. I did them both in one day and was sorry I had allotted so little time.

The island of Ko Samet is only a couple of hours drive and a short ferry ride away from Bangkok. There are many bungalow-style resorts ranging from posh to basic and beaches ranging from secluded to jumping with activity.

And Chiang Mai is always a less-than-an-hour flight away.

Shopping: The Chatchuchak Market in Bangkok is a must-do experience. Thousands of vendors selling everything from silk to spider monkeys. The place can get very crowded as Thai and ex-pats flock there to stock up on home furnishings and clothing. In hot weather it can be a bit grueling, but the savings are worth it. The Pratanum area is Bangkok's garment district and has lots of bargains. In Chiang Mai, the Sunday market at Thapae Gate is a great place to get good values on Thai arts and crafts. Outside Chiang Mai are many manufacturers with outlets stores with great deals on pottery (celadon is very popular), furniture, lacquerware, etc.

Check out this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=599211 for off-the-beaten-track ideas. My recommendation in that thread to take the little train to Mahachai is one of my favourite excursions.

Otherwise, you shouldn't miss taking the Chao Phraya Express boats to their northern terminus in Nonthaburi and having lunch at the floating restaurant 5 min. walk down the river bank, and the picturesque island of Koh Kred, (in the Chao Phraya River) reachable by longtail from the pier at Nonthaburi, which has a Mon village and many handmade handicrafts, as well as a beautiful Buddha garden.

On the outskirts of Bangkok, the Rose Garden is a popular excursion and a chance to enjoy a beautiful park with flowers.

I spent a week at the Sofitel Silom last summer and it is a very nice hotel,centrally located. Try to get upgraded to an executive room. They have a nice lounge that serves a free breakfast, and cocktails and snacks in the evening. It also has a free computer with internet access. If you go to Hua Hin (about 2 1/2 hours by car), there is another Sofitel which is beautiful. It has lovely grounds and is done in the old colonial style. This is the closest beach to Bangkok and it is where the king has his summer palace. The hotel is waalking distance to the whole town. Restaurants in the hotel are very good.
I would not recommend going to Ayutthaya by boat. Hire a car service. Another day trip you should consider is the floating market which is interesting. You can combine this with a rather touristy cultural show at the Rose Garden and lunch. Kind of tacky, but fun. Recommend
hiring you own car and driver instead of using tour bus. Otherwise you spend time getting through Bangkok's heavy traffic.

I would not recommend going to Ayutthaya by boat. Hire a car service. Recommend hiring you own car and driver instead of using tour bus. Otherwise you spend time getting through Bangkok's heavy traffic.

I disagree.

The absolutely best way to get to Ayutthaya is by train. From the Softitel it's about 5-10 min. walk to the MRT (subway) station and a short ride (2 stops) to Hualamphong, Bangkok's central station. Basically every train going north stops at Ayutthaya. The fare ranges from 66 Baht for 1st class, 35 Baht for 2nd class, down to the princely sum of 15 Baht for 3rd class and the trip takes about 1.5 hours. No traffic problems. The trains are comfortable although a bit old and clanky. There's no real need to pay for 1st class on this route and not every train has 1st class carriages, anyway. And at the trackside you see a side of Bangkok you'll not see any other way.

Once you get to Ayutthaya you can hire a tuktuk for the day to take you around to the various sights. Buy a guide book at Asia Books before you go for explanations. Be sure to bring a water bottle and an umbrella (for the sun). Go early to avoid the midday heat. There are trains leaving at 5:50 and 7 AM. Here's the timetable (http://www.railway.co.th/English/Time_HTML.asp).

I have taken the Ayutthaya tour offered at the Shangri-La. It is quite nice, with a luxury bus to Ayutthaya and the luxury boat back to Bangkok. Good buffet on the boat ride and it is great to see life along the river. There was only about 10 people in our tour group.

For a really custom Ayutthayah tour on the water, try charliegallery@gmail.com. Very reasonably priced, and can provide overnight or day trip accomodations.

Another day trip you should consider is the floating market which is interesting. You can combine this with a rather touristy cultural show at the Rose Garden and lunch. Kind of tacky, but fun. Recommend
hiring you own car and driver instead of using tour bus. Otherwise you spend time getting through Bangkok's heavy traffic.

I was in Bangkok last month and booked a full day tour to the floating market, Rose Garden, and lunch. While I lost patience with the tour operator, the trip ended up being okay. Tacky for sure.

The tour guide made several unscheduled stops at tourist shopping areas and tourist "cultural shows." He clearly was getting a commission for whatever we spent. Several of us declined these extras and just hung out until it was time to leave. Sometimes we were hustled into a different van in our group so we could move on to the next stop. The last stop was at a jewelry store. Very impressive but we were "forced" to watch a movie then walk through the showroom. It was an amicable kidnapping I suppose.

The upside of the trip was that I met other travelers and enjoyed their company...families from Sri Lanka, Israel and Taipei; couples from Belgium and the Netherlands; and a young lady from London. As a solo traveler, it was especially interesting for me to meet these folks. The other upside was driving through the backrounds in the country, through villages amd farms, etc.

oceangirl,

Sorry you had the bad part of the experience. Meeting people is great, but paying a tour provider or guide to be taken - literally - to "carpet schools," "papyrus institutes" and various other "crafts" and "culture" venues where the emphasis is on fleecing the visitor with medirocre but high-priced products so the guide can line his / her pockets with hefty commissions is a vicious way of robbing travellers of valuable time and money, in my opinion. It is also too common worldwide. Perhaps you could post the name of the provider, so the rest of us could avoid them?

Thanks!

oceangirl,

Sorry you had the bad part of the experience. Meeting people is great, but paying a tour provider or guide to be taken - literally - to "carpet schools," "papyrus institutes" and various other "crafts" and "culture" venues where the emphasis is on fleecing the visitor with medirocre but high-priced products so the guide can line his / her pockets with hefty commissions is a vicious way of robbing travellers of valuable time and money, in my opinion. It is also too common worldwide. Perhaps you could post the name of the provider, so the rest of us could avoid them?

Thanks!

Ah yes, and don't forget the wood carving school and snake show. I used Buddy Travel at the Buddy Lodge on Khao San Road. The hotel was recommended by Frommers so I thought the tour people would be okay. I did use them to book my flights to/from Cambodia and that went well.

As a general rule, you will have much better luck avoiding the unwanted stops at shops and factory outlets by booking a driver or an individual guide rather than going with the group tour booked out of the hotel lobby. It may work out to be a little more expensive (although often not that much more), but it will cut down on your frustration.

As a general rule, you will have much better luck avoiding the unwanted stops at shops and factory outlets by booking a driver or an individual guide rather than going with the group tour booked out of the hotel lobby. It may work out to be a little more expensive (although often not that much more), but it will cut down on your frustration.

Even then, there's no guarantee. My very 1st trip to Thailand, light years ago :) involved a 3 or 4-day package deal at a 4-star hotel including an individual temple tour with driver and guide (as well as a bunch of other things which turned out to be just fine). And at the end of the temple tour they insisted we come with them to the proverbial jewelry factory for the tour and the movie. We just flat-out refused, but ended up going through the motions anyway. :p

There's no real need to take a tour to see the Rose Garden and the floating market. Just grab a taxi or use public transportation to get there and then walk around yourself. Sometimes tours are useful if you want explanations or historical/cultural details from someone who knows what he or she is talking about, but otherwise they're usually a waste of time and money.

That's why I recommended the OP get a guide book at Asia Books and then take the train to Ayutthaya. So easy. So much cheaper. So much more fun.

oceangirl,

Sorry you had the bad part of the experience. Meeting people is great, but paying a tour provider or guide to be taken - literally - to "carpet schools," "papyrus institutes" and various other "crafts" and "culture" venues where the emphasis is on fleecing the visitor with medirocre but high-priced products so the guide can line his / her pockets with hefty commissions is a vicious way of robbing travellers of valuable time and money, in my opinion. It is also too common worldwide. Perhaps you could post the name of the provider, so the rest of us could avoid them?

Thanks!

What most people don't know is the guides in Bangkok have to pay the tour operators there just to get a job with them. To make up for this they are encouraged by the operator to take their clients to as many shops that pay commissions as possible. This is the only way they make money, it is sad but true. You don't even have to make a purchase as they get 50 Thai baht for everyone that walks into the shop and so do the drivers. The commissions go to the tour operator first and they take out their cut and then give the guide what is left over, which is sometines 30% of the commission. This is why they are so aggressive.

The question should be, which company, guide or driver doesn't do this.

I guess I will need to write a travel tip on my Thailand travel pages here at VT about this subject. For now, if you would like information on how to avoid this please email my wife and I here at my VTemail. You don't need to waist your time going places you don't want to go to.

Have fun
Randy and Ning

Even then, there's no guarantee. My very 1st trip to Thailand, light years ago :) involved a 3 or 4-day package deal at a 4-star hotel including an individual temple tour with driver and guide (as well as a bunch of other things which turned out to be just fine). Agreed. No guarantees - more of an improving of the odds. :) I find that almost any package such as you described which includes one of those tours will invariably involve being dragged to souvenir and jewelry stores/factories. (Same thing happened to me, only in Hong Kong.)

Agreed. No guarantees - more of an improving of the odds. :) I find that almost any package such as you described which includes one of those tours will invariably involve being dragged to souvenir and jewelry stores/factories. (Same thing happened to me, only in Hong Kong.)

From the way I wrote it, it sounded as if the tour included those many things. In fact the tour was of the temples and Grand Palace only and the other things included in the hotel package were a seafood buffet, a dim sum lunch, a dinner cruise, I forget what else. The temple tour was the only time we got dragged somewhere. It was actually a pretty good deal.

As you can probably tell I'm not much for being taken to places in herds, so with that trip I started a long independent exploration of Bangkok which has continued ever since.

@@allthai - Randy & Ning - No, I had no idea that the guides have to pay the tour companies and then make their living from the commissions. What an appalling racket! :mad:

I dont think anyone mentioned MBK yet, so be sure to try it out..one of the best places for cheap shopping in bkk!

I dont think anyone mentioned MBK yet, so be sure to try it out..one of the best places for cheap shopping in bkk!

I'd heard about MBK for years but it took until my 8th or 9th trip to check it out. I wasn't so impressed as I wasn't looking for leather bags or cheap clothing. I'm much more swayed by Pantip Plaza, the IT shopping mall.

Thanks all for the great advice. We're looking forward to a wonderful time. Does anyone have experience with the Baipai Cooking School?

The Baipai cooking school is great! My only--minor--complaint was that the van that picked me up from the hotel was about 20-30 minutes late, but I can't blame them for getting caught up in Bangkok traffic. But the two instructors were friendly and engaging, and had excellent English.

I think like most of these cooking schools, Baipai gives you the chance to do some food assembly/plating/partial cooking--they take care of a lot of the more mechanical or time-consuming steps for you (grinding fresh curry paste, grilling beef). All the ingredients come pre-measured when you're at your individual workstations, with some of them chopped. If only I could get someone to do my chopping/measuring/cleaning when I cooked at home...

I'd heard about MBK for years but it took until my 8th or 9th trip to check it out. I wasn't so impressed as I wasn't looking for leather bags or cheap clothing. I'm much more swayed by Pantip Plaza, the IT shopping mall.

MBK has MUCH more than just leather bags and cheap clothing. And the people-watching alone makes it worthwhile. But I guess it depends on where your interests lie. I agree that Panthip is a fascinating place. You might also try Fortune Town at Rama IX subway station and IT Square up near the old Don Muang Airport.

My wife and I will be in BKK the week of Oct 15. ...[snip]... We're already thinking of a day trip by boat to Ayutthaya, and an overnight (by train?) to Hao Hin.
Two good choices.
Ayutthaya is a delightful boat ride -- long, but very pleasant.
There is a lot to see on the river, and the open river boat will give you a cooling breeze.
I suggest you select a seat to avoid the water spray -- the river is an open sewer.

Ayutthaya is a lot of old ruins.
If you like old ruins, you'll be happy.
If you don't much care for old ruins, but you like long boat rides on tropical rivers, then I suggest the ride to Bang-Pa-In "summer palace", instead of Ayutthaya.
That is a beautiful, lovely, fascinating destination, with few tourists.
You've find tour information for Bang-Pa-In on the web, and at the tour desk in your hotel.

Hua Hin is a clean and pleasant beach resort South of Bangkok.
The train trip is only 3-4 hours, not overnight.
Leave from Bangkok about 8:00 AM or so, and arrive in Hua Hin about noon.

On trains to Hua Hin, the most pleasant service is "second-class air-conditioned".
The padded seats recline and there is plenty of leg room.
You'll be served a light breakfast and a Thai-style lunch on the train, included in the fare.

Don't go "third-class" or you'll be sitting on hard wooden benches all the way.

A gentle warning about toilets on trains in Thailand.
There are two toilets at the end of each car.
One side is the squat toilet.
The other is the Western-style sit-down toilet.
If you open a door and see a style you don't like, simply turn around to the other door.

Hua Hin as some excellent sea-food restaurants on piers out over the water.
My favorite dish is curried crab.
Menus usually list this as "crab in curry powder", but it's prepared as a mild sauce, not powder.
It is one of the specialities in Hua Hin.
If you don't have the patience to fuss with eating crab, you can get exactly the same dish prepared with fresh shrimp.

If you have specific questions you are welcome to send email or private message to me.

-- Peter
.

MBK has MUCH more than just leather bags and cheap clothing. And the people-watching alone makes it worthwhile. But I guess it depends on where your interests lie. I agree that Panthip is a fascinating place. You might also try Fortune Town at Rama IX subway station and IT Square up near the old Don Muang Airport.
My wife and I love MBK! We bought these jeans there and we had no idea what the brand name meant, when we got bqack to the states our friends came over and we had them on, our friends wanted to know why we would ever spend $150 on a pair of jeans? We actually spend $10 each on the pair of Diesel jeans!

My favorite dish is curried crab. Mine, too. Messy as hell, though. :)

Try the curried SOFT shell crab, less messy. ;)

My wife and I love MBK! We bought these jeans there and we had no idea what the brand name meant, when we got bqack to the states our friends came over and we had them on, our friends wanted to know why we would ever spend $150 on a pair of jeans? We actually spend $10 each on the pair of Diesel jeans!Correction: "We actually spent $10 each on jeans with FAKE Diesel labels."

I live in Bangkok.
MBK shopping center is the LAST place I want to go to shop for anything.
Cheap prices, yes, but even cheaper quality -- on everything
If you like everything as cheap as humanly possible, you'll like MBK.
If you don't mind being cheated now and then, you won't mind MBK.

And it's hot and stuffy, and often very crowded in the narrow aisles.

MBK is, well, let's call it a tourist adventure.

If you have specific questions, you are welcome to send email or private message to me.

-- Peter

Cheap prices, yes, but even cheaper quality -- on everything
If you like everything as cheap as humanly possible, you'll like MBK.
If you don't mind being cheated now and then, you won't mind MBK.

And it's hot and stuffy, and often very crowded in the narrow aisles.

MBK is, well, let's call it a tourist adventure.

Peter, this sounds more like a description of Chatuchak Market than MBK. Although I admit that MBK can get quite crowded, especially when school or university is finished for the day and the kids head for the mall. But it is air conditioned and it's reasonably proportioned so it's not too big a zoo, even then.

There are some genuine bargains at MBK if you keep your eyes open. On (I believe it's the) 3rd floor, if you go right through an open area with stands offering T-shirts and tourist souvenir trash, you come to an area of corridors and numbered aisles which have small shops with quite good quality clothing.

There I found a North Face jacket which, if it is a fake, it's the best damned fake I've ever seen. It's totally unlike those cheap fake cargo pants on which they just stick on a label. They told me it was "made in Thailand for export." All the logos are perfect, detailed and embroidered in the right place, or stamped into the zipper fastenings etc. The zippers and Gortex outer shell are of very high quality, tough and thick. All the seams are taped properly with North Face logo'd tape. The inner fleece liner is of very dense material and could be worn on its own on all but the coldest days. The jacket had all the usual North Face tags when I bought it. It cost about $60 as opposed to the $300 or so which such jackets would cost in the west. A retailing specialist told me that factories commissioned to make garments for foreign customers do order overruns and then sell the products on the local market. The companies don't much like it, but can't do anything about it and so it's tacitly condoned (and considered part of the factory's profit base).

This jacket has now gotten me through one of the coldest European winters I ever experienced, riding my bike home from work at 2 AM (Don't ask...). I've certainly gotten my $60 worth just in the one winter. The shop also had other top brands including Columbia.

There are also things like the brand-name jeans described above, which may not actually be fake at all, but rather priced for the local market. $10 is a lot of money for a Thai making less than $200 a month.

There are also lots of more formal shops at MBK in the open part of the mall which have branded goods such as Camel at a substantial discount to what one would pay in the west (the shop is actually a Camel shop so there's no way the stuff is fake) and local brands which are every bit as good quality. The Tokyu Department Store which forms part of MBK (you walk right through it if you use the walkway from the BTS station (National Stadium)), also has some great stuff including a line of very funny t-shirts for women which I've been buying as Christmas gifts to the delight of my female friends.

By the way, if you have a thing for those tight, short Thai university uniforms :p , the place to see them being worn is MBK and the place to find the actual uniforms for sale is that area of aisles and corridors I mentioned above. :cool:

Again, thanks for the great advice.

With our trip a few short days away, the rains/flooding seem more a concern than the coup. Any advice on what the weather might be like in the next week would be appreciated. The websites show the thunderstorms continuing off and on.

Also, in terms of getting around in the rain, how do you not look like a tourist? We live in Portland, Oregon so we're used to rain, but monsoons... we'd like to get out and about as much as possible.

If we do need to alter our plans to do more indoor activities, are there must see places?

Cheers.

I was in Bangkok last month and booked a full day tour to the floating market, Rose Garden, and lunch. While I lost patience with the tour operator, the trip ended up being okay. Tacky for sure.

The tour guide made several unscheduled stops at tourist shopping areas and tourist "cultural shows." He clearly was getting a commission for whatever we spent. Several of us declined these extras and just hung out until it was time to leave. Sometimes we were hustled into a different van in our group so we could move on to the next stop. The last stop was at a jewelry store. Very impressive but we were "forced" to watch a movie then walk through the showroom. It was an amicable kidnapping I suppose.
After reading those indignant comments from oceangirl, I did some quick research.
I went to the tour desk in a major hotel in Bangkok, operated by the largest tour operator in Thailand, World Travel Service, Ltd.
Here are verbatim quotes from their brochure -- where these comments appear in bright red: Note: At the end of tour B1 and B2, there will be a visit to a gem factory. Those not wishing to participate will be taken back immediately from the gem factory to their hotels.

Note: A stop will also be made at a Thai handicraft factory for tour B9, B10 and B25 after visiting the floating market. I'm sure other tour operators will follow suit, but likely with less clear, or no disclosure at all.

Similar "diversions" take place at most tourist destinations in the world, especially in poorer countries. Thailand is no exception. People who travel a lot are used to that, and quickly learn how to handle it in a relaxed manner.

Now a warning specific to Thailand: In Thai culture is is very, very, impolite to show any signs of losing patience. Not only is it bad manners, but it could be dangerous for you, the visitor. Losing patience, getting "hot under the collar", raising one's voice, acting agitated, is, in Thai culture, often the prelude to a fight. Thais who work with tourists -- such as tour guides -- realize this and are trained to ignore it. However, in the outlying areas, where the local people don't see many tourists, such behavior could and does have serious consequences. Even though Thailand has a hot climate, it is best here to always "keep your cool".

If anyone has specific questions, you are welcome to send email or a private message to me.

-- Peter
.

Also, in terms of getting around in the rain, how do you not look like a tourist? We live in Portland, Oregon so we're used to rain, but monsoons... we'd like to get out and about as much as possible.

Cheers.

Just carry an umbrella (NOT a rain coat - too warm and sticky) and be prepared to shelter somewhere to wait it out. Usually it never rains continuously, but it can rain heavily for several hours and then suddenly become sunny again. Don't cancel any excursions because you look outside and it's raining. Chances are the rain will have stopped by the time you get there.

Correction: "We actually spent $10 each on jeans with FAKE Diesel labels."

I live in Bangkok.
MBK shopping center is the LAST place I want to go to shop for anything.
Cheap prices, yes, but even cheaper quality -- on everything
If you like everything as cheap as humanly possible, you'll like MBK.
If you don't mind being cheated now and then, you won't mind MBK.

And it's hot and stuffy, and often very crowded in the narrow aisles.

MBK is, well, let's call it a tourist adventure.

If you have specific questions, you are welcome to send email or private message to me.

-- Peter



even if they are fake, we live in Missouri and we are about the only ones who dont wear Wranglers every day! So if they are fake, nobody here could tell:) the weird thing about the jeans was that they were not hemmed at the bottom, and when we were getting ready to buy them we got measured and the guy sewed them right there in the store.

After reading those indignant comments from oceangirl, I did some quick research.
I went to the tour desk in a major hotel in Bangkok, operated by the largest tour operator in Thailand, World Travel Service, Ltd.
Here are verbatim quotes from their brochure -- where these comments appear in bright red: [INDENT][COLOR=Red] Note: At the end of tour B1 and B2, there will be a visit to a gem factory. Those not wishing to participate will be taken back immediately from the gem factory to their hotels.

Repeating the post earlier in this thread from Randy and Ning, who work in the Thai travel industry.

What most people don't know is the guides in Bangkok have to [B]pay the tour operators there just to get a job with them. To make up for this they are encouraged by the operator to take their clients to as many shops that pay commissions as possible. This is the only way they make money, it is sad but true. You don't even have to make a purchase as they get 50 Thai baht for everyone that walks into the shop and so do the drivers. The commissions go to the tour operator first and they take out their cut and then give the guide what is left over, which is sometines 30% of the commission. This is why they are so aggressive.

The question should be, which company, guide or driver doesn't do this.

Bold is mine.

Again, thanks for the great advice.

With our trip a few short days away, the rains/flooding seem more a concern than the coup. Any advice on what the weather might be like in the next week would be appreciated. The websites show the thunderstorms continuing off and on.



Some of the early posts in this thread have recommended river travel... given the current flooding in Thailand, I think folks might want to focus on something besides water travel. The Chao Praya is running quite high right now, so the train might be a better choice.

I was in Bangkok the other night and there was some flooding of the major city arteries. Sukhumvit was a mess, and I understand the Silom/Sathorn area was bad as well. You can check some of the latest stories at either www.bangkokpost.com or www.nationmultimedia.com.

Having said all this, it is important to realize that even during the rainy season, it will likely rain a couple of hours in the day, so I would not recommend focusing on different activities to avoid being outside. It just might be a good idea to avoid the river for a while...

Some of the early posts in this thread have recommended river travel... given the current flooding in Thailand, I think folks might want to focus on something besides water travel. The Chao Praya is running quite high right now, so the train might be a better choice.

I was just catching up on my Thailand news, and I see that Ayutthaya and Sukhothai are suffering from major flooding and world heritage site are threatened. Large parts of Bangkok are underwater.

Large parts of Bangkok are underwater. Not central Bangkok, not from what I have seen.

Right now (Sunday afternoon) I'm looking down from my window onto middle Sukhumvit Road in central Bangkok.
Totally dry.

My language teacher came in this morning from Victory Monument.
No water there.

Yesterday my girl friend rode the bus to Morchit terminal, and then out of Bangkok on an inter-city bus going up-country.
No water problems anywhere on her route.

Two days ago I went on a sightseeing tour of the Grand Palace.
The tour van took a meandering route from Sukhumvit thru Chinatown, along the river, and up to Sanam Luang before arriving at the Grand Palace.
On the return trip the van took another meandering route thru other parts of central Bangkok.
Didn't see any flooding at all; just the high water in the river.

Until I get better information, I must say that the central/business/shopping/tourist areas of Bangkok have dried out remarkably quickly.

Outlying areas of Bangkok may have water, but most visitors don't go to those areas.
Up-country locations along the rivers -- well away from Bangkok -- certainly do have severe flooding.

The end of this week may be a different story for central Bangkok.
Thai people tell me that TV news predicts more rain plus high tides will arrive at the end of this week.
Bangkok is flat and at sea level.

-- Peter
.

Not central Bangkok, not from what I have seen.

Right now (Sunday afternoon) I'm looking down from my window onto middle Sukhumvit Road in central Bangkok.
Totally dry.
...

Outlying areas of Bangkok may have water, but most visitors don't go to those areas.
Up-country locations along the rivers -- well away from Bangkok -- certainly do have severe flooding.

The end of this week may be a different story for central Bangkok.
Thai people tell me that TV news predicts more rain plus high tides will arrive at the end of this week.
Bangkok is flat and at sea level.

-- Peter
.

Well, Peter, you're on the ground and I have to rely on 2nd hand news sources where I am right now. But Nonthaburi isn't so far off the Bangkok beaten track and a lot of it is flooded. They had to bring special toilet boats in to "relieve" the residents of Ko Kred, the island in the Chao Phraya which is a popular tourist destination. As you say, central Bangkok has been spared for the moment, although I did see a report of Siam Square being underwater earlier this month.

Flood prevention wall raised higher to spare Bangkok from flood
BANGKOK, Oct 15 (TNA) – The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) is raising height of the flood prevention wall keeping the flooding Chao Phraya River out of downtown and metropolitan Bangkok.

Working against time to spare the Thai capital from the flood disaster now expected later this month, BMA Governor Apirak Kosayodhin said the city government is doing the best it can to stave off disaster.

Mr. Apirak Saturday inspected the capital's flood prevention defenses, especially the embankment built especially to hold back this season's floodwaters--the worst in many years.

The governor also visited residents along the banks of the Chao Phraya River in Bang Sue, considered as one of the most risky areas for floods in Bangkok.

Learning that the river's height has risen sharply and the area is densely populated, Mr. Apirak ordered city workers to raise the flood prevention wall to 2.90 metres from its present 2.70 metres.

Bangkok is thought likely to be hit by floods due to rising sea levels, especially between October 23 to 25.

http://etna.mcot.net

My wife and I will be in BKK the week of Oct 15. We're staying at the Sofitel Silom and have a few activities scheduled, like a class at Baipai cooking school.

Any advice on day trips or overnights would be greatly appreciated. We're already thinking of a day trip by boat to Ayutthaya, and an overnight (by train?) to Hao Hin.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm a regular at Baipai ..it's absolutly fansastic! I have done both group & personal classes. The teaching staff are very patient and will spend as long as you want discussing matters/answering questions!

A & Nam are great!

Let us know how you enjoyed it!

It hasnt rained for quite a while now in Bangkok, so touch wood, but we mite be saved from the floods now!

It hasnt rained for quite a while now in Bangkok, so touch wood, but we mite be saved from the floods now!

I think the problem is run-off from upriver, rather than the volume of rain in BKK itself. The flood water takes some time to make its way down the Chao Phraya. They're trying to run it off into catchment areas to save low-lying areas of the city. I read the king has made a big piece of his land available.

I spent a week at the Sofitel Silom last summer and it is a very nice hotel,centrally located. Try to get upgraded to an executive room. They have a nice lounge that serves a free breakfast, and cocktails and snacks in the evening. It also has a free computer with internet access..

Did this hotel have a nice pool area? I am looking for a nice hotel in Bangkok for the Christmas holiday with a nice pool area, and as little prostetution as possible, preferably a known brand (Sheraton, Sofitel etc). Have found some alternatives, but if someone have any personal experience it would be great.

Would also like to know about knew or newly refurbished hotels.

Travelling whit my parents (60 years old) and my brother (26)
Any suggestions?

Cheers

am looking for a nice hotel in Bangkok for the Christmas holiday with a nice pool area, and as little prostetution as possibleHello Chriscross -

Since you posted to a thread "First BKK trip...advice", I'll assume you are planning your first trip here.
This is an amazing, fascinating, truly exotic city, with much worth seeing and experiencing, but ...

To be polite yet clear about the matter, prostitution is a significant part of the diverse culture in this region of the world.
It has been a tradition here for generation upon generation.

That does not mean everyone must indulge, of course, but prostitution is all around -- sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly -- in every tourist section of Bangkok, including the Silom area.
If you can't abide that, then best avoid all of Thailand.

If any specific questions, you are welcome to send me email or private message.

-- Peter
.

...preferably a known brand (Sheraton, Sofitel etc).


You'll be paying a premium for that which doesn't necessarily translate into better quality. Many of the locally owned hotels and chains surpass the Sheratons and Sofitels in appointments, luxuries, and service, but don't charge as much.

Oh well, each to his own.

You'll be paying a premium for that which doesn't necessarily translate into better quality. Many of the locally owned hotels and chains surpass the Sheratons and Sofitels in appointments, luxuries, and service, but don't charge as much.For travellers new to Asia, I find that advice above to be, "Penny wise and pound foolish".

Certainly in Bangkok, and probably in much of Asia, cheating is a common ingredient to doing business.
So, that's how locally-managed hotels tend to do things.
(Not all, of course, not all.)

The simplest way to reduce your risk of getting cheated is to reserve with an international chain that tends towards Western standards of honesty.
It's not a perfect guarantee, of course, but it is the most-effective way to improve the odds in your favour.

For a first BKK trip, your safest reservation is at someplace like a Sheraton, Sofitel, Hilton, or a similar property managed by an international chain.
For those in the middle-budget range, Accor Hotels (a management company from France) offers dependable value at many properties in Thailand.

Of course, of course, there will be exceptions.

-- Peter
.

For those in the middle-budget range, Accor Hotels (a management company from France) offers dependable value at many properties in Thailand.
.

Peter, we can dispute this if you want, but do get your facts straight. Accor is not just middle-budget. One of its brands is Sofitel. It's also Mercure and Ibis. The hotels are owned by a local company or individual and only managed by Accor. The same with Le Meridien and i imagine most of the other "name brands."

I wonder how they compare with Oriental, Dusit (chain) and Siam City just to mention a couple off the top of head, for honesty if not for luxury and appointments?

Or does being Thai mean you're not trustworthy on any level, including owning and managing high-end accomodation, in your opinion?

Accor is not just middle-budget. One of its brands is Sofitel. It's also Mercure and Ibis. For first time travellers to Bangkok -- who may not yet be familiar with Asian business customs -- this is worth further thought.

Billp is correct that Accor manages a wide range of hotels in Thailand, from middle-budget up to luxury.
Having experienced several Accor-managed hotels, I can recommend them to first-time travellers to Bangkok.
As Billp explains, there are other, Western, hotel-management firms operating in Thailand, besides Accor.

I my travels in Thailand, I have consistently observed that hotels which appear to be owned/managed by locals (meaning, in most cases, Thai-Chinese), have somewhat lower standards of cleanliness, service, and honesty.
The attitude seems to be, "What is the minimum we can get away with, that the customer will still accept?"
Yet, those hotel rates are similar to Western owned/managed hotels in the same areas, where I observe higher standards of quality and service.
In Western owned/managed hotels here, the attitude seems to be, "What else can we do to give the customer a positive experience at our hotel?"

I could give many supporting examples from personal observation.
And, of course, it is always possible to find exceptions on both sides.

Just from looking at hotel web sites, it's impossible to know who is the owner/manager of a hotel.
That's why I recommend to travellers coming here for the first time, that they select hotels which are managed by Western owners or an international chain.

- Peter
.

Or does being Thai mean you're not trustworthy on any level, including owning and managing high-end accomodation, in your opinion? Yes.
Based on over two years of careful observation, that is exactly my starting point when dealing with local people here.

I would not employ any Thai person to manage anything, certainly nothing as complex as a hotel, even a small hotel.
I would not trust any Thai person with money, even with one day's business receipts, unless there was a strong, counter-party in the background, such as a family connection.
I do not trust any Thai to do what I think they promised to do, so I am always making backup plans for important matters.

Among Westerners here -- who talk or write about this topic -- those who have depended on Thais in business matters, without sufficient countermeasures, often regret it.
It is a common topic of conversation among expats and frequent travellers.

As I have learned more of the Thai language, I've observed that the topic of "trust", or, more correctly, widespread lack of trust, in their own culture, is also a common topic of conversation among Thais themselves.

So, in the context of this thread -- "First BKK trip... advice?" -- you may well ask why I am delighted to make Bangkok my home, and why I encourage travellers to visit here.
Because Thais do some things exceptionally well.
And those things enhance my quality of life and contribute to travellers' experiences here.
Just a few examples: cooking delicious food, making simple things beautiful, treating people with gentle kindness.
But, managing hotels, and similar business organizations, is certainly not among their cultural talents.

Of course, one is always happy to find the odd exception.

If any specific questions, you are welcome to send me email or private message.

- Peter
.

To be polite yet clear about the matter, prostitution is a significant part of the diverse culture in this region of the world.
It has been a tradition here for generation upon generation. That does not mean everyone must indulge, of course, but prostitution is all around -- sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly -- in every tourist section of Bangkok, including the Silom area.
If you can't abide that, then best avoid all of Thailand.

Chriscross: Peter4's comment quoted above is entirely overblown. Prostitution is present in Thailand and has been for quite some time, but giving you the impression that you will see it everywhere and should avoid Thailand entirely if you're not comfortable with that is inaccurate and borders on sanctimonious Western moralizing. In many many many trips to Thailand, I have encountered prostitution precious few times outside the red light district that is Patpong. You can absolutely enjoy all that Thailand has to offer without fear of encountering prostitutes lurking on every corner.

I have posted in another thread that Peter4's largely anti-Thai comments should be taken with a large grain of salt. To listen to him, you would think that every Thai is a prostitute or trying to scam you. His two posts immediately above show his true colors: he wouldn't trust a Thai to do anything. Yes, the facade of a knowing Westerner with insight on Thailand based on residency has been removed. Beneath it, a heart of gross prejudice has been revealed.

For newcomers to FlyerTalk, including (by post count, at least) Chriscross, I'll say that you run into folks like this here every once in a while. Some last, some get banned almost instantaneously for violating FT's Terms of Service. Everyone can decide for himself whose posts should be respected and heeded and whose should be ignored. For his outrageous anti-Thai bias, Peter4 has within a matter of weeks earned a place firmly on my "ignore" list.

Peter4's comment quoted above is entirely overblown. Prostitution is present in Thailand and has been for quite some time, but giving you the impression that you will see it everywhere and should avoid Thailand entirely if you're not comfortable with that is inaccurate and borders on sanctimonious This comment is worth further thought, because most Western men traveling here for the first time are not familiar with the approach of Thai women.
There are thousands of reports on the web, and also in many books, about Western men who were not prepared for this aspect of Thai culture, and suffered unpleasant consequences.

On this topic of "First BKK trip...advice?", some of the most important advice would be about the prostitution.
It is not as simple as avoiding a certain red-light district.
If it were that easy, no need for further comments.
I will explain:

Many of the women working in the tourist areas here, take those jobs specifically to meet men from abroad.
These women have travelled far from their families.
They endure long working hours at low pay.
They live in squalid housing conditions.
But they do have a chance -- maybe a slim chance, but at least a chance -- of meeting a foreign man.

Maybe that meeting lasts only a few hours -- we call that prostitution.
Maybe the meeting lasts for some years -- we call that marriage.
Either way, it is a chance for these women to improve their lot in life, perhaps only for the price of a new cell phone for themselves, or school tuition for a child living with the grandparents back home.
Perhaps the improvement can be for some years, or even a lifetime, of support for the woman and her family thru marriage to a foreign man.
Either way, every day, they come by the hundreds from their poor villages, to try their luck with a job in the tourist areas.

Now, here is the most important aspect:
Most of these women are not full-on prostitutes as we might expect.
Most don't work in the brothels and bars, or walk the streets for trolling for "Johns".
Instead they are hotel staff, waitresses, foot massage girls, dental assistants, product demonstrators, and shop girls in large department stores if they are pretty, or small 7-Elevens, if they are plain.
Any job will do, as long as it offers the chance of some contact with foreign men.

And then the huge cultural difference appears.
Western men have received so little, for so long, from Western women, that when we see a smile, we think it means true love.
Due to widespread feminism since the 1980's, Western men under the age of about 40 or so, may never have experienced a positive encounter with Western women.
Western men over 40 are unlikely to have had pleasant experiences with Western women for two decades, but they can remember what it used to be like.

And then they come to Thailand.
Here, they find women who speak nicely to them, act in affectionate ways, touch and stand close, show interest in what they have to say, and, besides, are eager to go back to their hotel room for the night.
That must be LOVE!

Not so.
Not in Thailand.
Here it is an offer for a business deal.
Perhaps a long-term deal for marriage.
Perhaps short-time for just a few hours.
But, for the women, the objective is money.
Sometimes the objective is dressed up with the pretty name of "security".
However, the key point to realize is that romantic love is simply not an important factor here.

Any man travelling to Thailand will encounter this many, many, times, and, usually, in very subtle, indirect, ways.
Some men will not be prepared.
They will confuse a business proposition with love.
That is a big mistake here, and can lead to unexpected problems.

One of the things I appreciate about the Internet, is it has become a free-market of ideas.
I assume some travellers want to be prepared before they venture into a very different culture, such as that in Thailand.

If any specific questions, you are welcome to send me email or private message.

- Peter
.

Due to widespread feminism since the 1960's, Western men under the age of about 50 or so, may never have experienced a positive encounter with any Western woman.
Men over 50 are unlikely to have had any pleasant experiences with Western women for decades, but they can remember what it used to be like.
- Peter
.

OK, now that's about the silliest thing I've read here on FT ever.

I believe MegatopLover is referring to the ability, here on FT, to electronically ignore posts by certain users, within your user preferences. I've only ever added one person to that list. Off to make it two. :D

Thanks again for the pre-trip advice. It helped quite a bit.

We got back a couple of days ago. In all, we had a great time in Bangkok. The one less-than-perfect aspect was the feeling of having to be on guard whenever we were in heavily touristed areas -- e.g., around the Grand Palace, at the Chao Phraya ferry stop Tha Chang, outside the hotel, and Patapong -- we just had the sense that we couldn't get a straight answer from anyone.

We did most of our traveling by river ferry, skytrain, and foot.

Day 1 -- A quick walking trip from the Sofitel Silom to orient ourselves and visit Lumpini park. After an errant taxi ride, and some "Amazing Race" style antics, get ourselves to the Grand Palace area. Meet a nice "student" who obviously hasn't read any of the guide books that descibed his scam from start to finish. Was kind of fun dealing with him knowing it was a scam from the outset. We kindly declined his offer to take a tuk tuk to the "open" wats as we waited for the Grand Palace to "open." The Grand Palace, Wat Arun, and wat Pho were epic. Took the Chao Phraya Express down to the Hotel Orient for a couple of Singhas and a lovely dinner by the river. Walked to the skytrain and got back to the Sofitel in the late evening. Slept well after a short swim and a long steam.

Day 2 -- Cooking class at Baipai Cooking School. Started with a trip to a market near the school, very informative. The class was great and we're looking forward to trying the recipes on our own. R&R in the hotel for a few hours in the afternoon. Patpong.

Day 3 -- Opted for the tourist trip to Atthuya. The air conditioned bus was nice. The tour was fine, but we felt a bit trapped. The river cruise/dinner back to BKK was OK.

Day 4 -- Lazed around a bit in the morning. Went to MBK for some drugs (the wife picked up a sinus infection) and lunch. Toured China Town. Went up to the hippy/backpacker area around Khao San to get roti at Roti Mataba. Had a couple of beers at one of the guest houses to watch the westerners wander about. Picked up a couple of roti and ferried/skytrained back to the Sofitel.

Day 5 -- Tried to "For a fascinating round trip, take the Klong Bangkok Noi taxi from Chang pier, near the Royal Palace, which travels north through Thonburi, terminating at Bang Yai. Then walk to nearby Wat Sao Thong Hin to catch the Klong Om water taxi to Nonthaburi, from where the Chao Phraya River Express will take you south again to Chang pier. Fares on river taxis are up to 40p (30 baht)." but could find no sign at Tha Chang for the taxi to Klon Noi, only several folks looking to sell us longtail boat tours. Cut our losses, walked around the grounds at Thammasat University. Idled away some time in the hotel then to Chatujak to do our gift and souvenir shopping. The market was pretty much set up in prep for the weekend, but the crowds were thin, which mad getting around much easier. Skytrained back to the river and walked up to the Hotel Orient for drinks and our last dinner in Bangkok.

In all, a good time. Now that we know Bangkok a little, our next trip would use BKK as a stepping stone to other parts of Thailand and SE Asia.

after reading some of peter's drivel i was inclined to post a reply but what's the point.

glad you had a good trip op :D i've been visiting bkk for 20 years and lived there for 10, i still love it. there are many peters there but, like the prostitution, easy enough to avoid...

Thanks again for the pre-trip advice. It helped quite a bit. ...[snip] ...In all, a good time. Now that we know Bangkok a little, our next trip would use BKK as a stepping stone to other parts of Thailand and SE Asia. Nice trip report.
Thank you, rollied, for taking time to write and post that.

- Peter
.

Thank all of you for the info.

I have actually been to Bangkok two times, but his will be the first time for my parents. After a lot of re-search, I have found five hotels:
Swissotel Nai Lert Park
Sofitel Silom
President Solitaire
Lebua
Majestic Grande
Does anyone have any experiences on these hotels regarding prices on room service, drinks/beer in the bars, distance (in meter/yards to Skytrain) or if the hotels are newly refurbished or not?

Cheers

First off, the OP might want to start this as a new thread topic so it doesn't get lost in the muddle of this thread.

I can't speak to comparison of the Sofitel Silom to the other hotels you list, but my wife and I stayed at the Silom last week and enjoyed it very much.

You might want to sign up on-line for the Sofitel Privledge card, it gives you a little bit of leverage if you want to ask for a better room. We were not able (as has been reported by others) to upgrade to their Club Level, but did get moved to a larger room on a higher floor. In all the hotel experience was great. Their breakfast buffet, which was included in out vacation package, was extensive and excellent -- offering american, asian, and european stlye foods.

Their fitness center was also top notch, with weight machines, free weights, and cardio machines. Mens and womens bathrooms each with sauna, steam room, and jacuzzi. Some complain about the size of the pool, but we found it charming.

The Silom is about a five minute walk to Patpong, if you need that experience. But more importantly, it is less than a ten minute walk to the Chong Nonsi station on the blue line.

deleted

Goto MBK for food and sightseeing then finish up with a foot massage ;). MBK is interesting to see, but for shopping save your baht for the weekend market, just bring comfortable shoes and something to tolerate the heat.

This comment is worth further thought, because most Western men traveling here for the first time are not familiar with the approach of Thai women....

Having spent a year in Jakarta, I can attest to what Peter4 writes. It is bang on.

Having spent a year in Jakarta, I can attest to what Peter4 writes. It is bang on.

Having spent the last 12 years living in Asia, I think his views are well wide of the mark, but no different from the usual drivel from westerners who don't travel well.

Peter4 has no idea how the Thai culture works when it comes to romance and meeting women in Thailand. I have posted this in the "Advise for Visitors to Chiang Mai" Thread but needs to be said here. Here it is.

Dating and Romance Thai Style

Although this article is written mainly for the guys, the ladies will learn a lot of what and what not to do in public with your friends or mate of the opposite sex. The men will also learn the real way courtship works in Thailand and why.

The first thing to remember is that girls can touch the guys but the guys CANNOT touch the girls. So if you are walking down the street DO NOT hold hands. It is OK for the lady to put her arm and hand around the man’s arm but that’s about as far as it should go.

There is a reason for this. If a girl lets a man touch, hold hands or put his arm around her the Thais believe the girl is easy, lose or maybe a prostitute. If you look at the way girls act in the bars it is easy to understand that any traditional, well educated Thai girl would not want to be seen as such a person. Thailand is a class society and the girls working in the bars are part of the lower class. Any well-educated and successful Thai man knows this also and would not think of marring a girl of this status. Girls that work in bars are for having fun in the short term and that is as far as it goes. Both Thai men and women know this but for some strange reason many male visitors to Thailand just don’t get it.
I will get back to this subject later.

Meeting and Making Friends with a Thai Lady.

Many people who have met my wife and I ask where I found such a wonderful person, well it wasn’t easy. First of all you have to have time and lots of it. The best place to meet someone is where she works (not a bar). There are plenty of well-educated, nice traditional Thai girls working in restaurants, shopping malls, as tour guides and hotels. This is excellent as they have a product to sell you and you want to buy. This breaks the ice so you can have a conversation about something you both have in common. Be polite and look sharp (no t-shirt and shorts). If she is working in a restaurant order your food, or in a shop make a purchase and hang around a little while. Don’t ask any personal questions at this stage just small talk. If she is interested in you she will ask the questions for sure.

Now wait a day or so and then return. Tell her you were just passing by and wanted to stop and visit for a while. Engage in small talk again and answer her questions. Take your time and stick around a while. She now knows you are interested in her so the questions will start coming that are more personal. You can now ask a few small personal questions such as how many people in her family, where she is from, where she went to school etc, but not too many at this stage. When it is time to leave give her a nice big smile and look into her eyes as you walk away.

Return again in a day or two. Engage again in a little small talk then ask if she would like to enjoy a meal with you at her convenience and any place she chooses. She might say yes and she might say no. If she says no she wants to see if you will return again or just never come back. Don’t worry she will say yes sooner or later so just be patient.

The First Date

When she does say yes she will most probably ask if she can bring some friends along or persons in her family. This is a Thai tradition when first dating and nothing else. Many westerners do not understand this and think she just wants a free meal for her and her friends or family, not so.

Your date wants her friends and family to check you out and will ask what they think about you later when they are alone. This is kind of like a job interview in front of board members. Don't ask her family or friends any questions just let them ask you. You are the one being interviewed here. Also if you talk too much to her friends or another female in the family everyone will think you are flirting with them, not a good idea. Keep focused on your date.

Another thing you will be tested in is how you spend your money. This starts from the first date. If you ask her where she wants to eat more than likely she will choose an expensive restaurant. You reply should be to suggest a restaurant that is nice but a little cheaper. A simple restaurant is a no-no just as much as an expensive one is. Thais love shopping malls so eating at a Pizza Hut for lunch or dinner is fine (not a Sizzler Steak House). Thais are very thrifty when it comes to spending money, they know how to get the most for the Thai Baht and she is looking to see if you are the same. Suggest Pizza Hut for the “all you can eat night” as it is a very good bargain and she will take notice of this.

After the first date

Later on in dating you will probably want to purchase a gift for her. This will be another money test. One example is when I was dating my wife, before we got married, I noticed she needed a good watch. We went to the mall and a reputable watch dealer. Now I could of bought a very expensive one but here is what I did. I ask her which one she liked and of course she picked out a very expensive one (remember this is just a test). I then asked the clerk to see a much cheaper one, which she showed us. I told my date that the cheap watches were not any good. We then looked at medium price watches and she found one she liked and I made the purchase. Now here is the lesson in all this.

If a Thai girl convinces you to make an expensive purchase when it is not necessary she thinks you spend way too much money. If you make a cheap purchase she will think you are stingy. If you make the right purchase she will know you know how to spend your money wisely. She will never marry a man who throws money away or a man that has no money or is cheap.

Asking for money

Here is one trap most western men fall into and again this is just another test. My wife never did this but I was one step ahead of her so she didn’t have to. At some time in the courtship she will say something like “My parents need a new roof for their house as it leaks when it rains” or “We have no indoor plumbing in our house in the village can you help us” or maybe “My fathers motorbike broke down and he needs a new one”. Lets think about this one carefully. Ok, she now knows you might love her or at least like her a lot or you wouldn’t be spending this much time with her. Now she is performing the biggest test of all, seeing how stupid you are.

Most of the western men I know would give her the money because they want to help. This is the biggest mistake you can do. DO NOT give her any money for anything!!!
Your reply should be “Let’s go to your parents house and see what they need and maybe I can help”. This is not only wise but also what she wants to hear. She will have one of two replies. If her parents really don’t need the money she will just laugh and probably give you a hug and change the subject, no more said for now. Don’t bring up the subject again remember this is just a test. If they do need the money for the purposes she mentioned, she will say OK.

Now one of three things will happen. If she just wanted you for your money she will see you saw right through her objective and will avoid you. Another is she will take you to her parents house and you will see her parents don’t need anything from you and that this was just a test. Third you will visit her village and parents and she what they need so you can help them. Now this is very important and happens mainly with bar girls. If you just give her the money she asks for she will take it for sure. The only need is her greed and she will probably use the money for a party with her friends or pay a gambling dept. Not only that but she will keep asking for more as long as you keep giving it to her. You are now her cash cow and remember she didn’t take it from you. You were more than willing to give it to her. I hear many stories from western men who say, “this girl stoled my money”. No you were stupid enough to give it to her without checking to see if her stories were true. Remember these are tests to see if you are wise, thrifty, kind, considerate or just plain stupid. A traditional Thai girl would not take the money if she doesn't have a real need for the things she mentioned but just smile or laugh as I mentioned previously.

About the third date and beyond.

After she consults with her siblings and/or friends and they like you then she will go on to the next step. If they don’t like you, forget it. Thais won’t rely on their own feelings when it comes to getting serious with a potential mate. What their close personal relations say is most important when it comes to making decisions.

Again you are at a restaurant with her and probably a Thai restaurant but this time alone with her. You ask her to make the dinner choice of dishes for you and her. Once the plates arrive she will put the rice on your plate for you. Here is where you find out if she is serious about you and falling in love. She will take small portions from the serving plates and put it on your plate. She will fill up your water or beer glass when it gets low. She will keep doing this until the meal is over. She is trying to show that she wants to take care of you. Thai women are trained by their mother on how to take care of men and children. I don’t know why but every time I just think I am thirsty a glass of water appears. My wife even knows when I am getting hungry. It’s like she knows my every need just at the right time.

Getting Serious

One thing to remember is a Thai girl will almost NEVER tell you she loves you. She shows her love by taking care of you. Don’t for a moment think she doesn’t love you because she doesn’t say it. Actions are what counts here and words mean very little when it come to love and romance in Thai culture.

Thais also love to give and receive gifts. These gifts should be personal and something you or they truly need. If you want to give a gift shoes and handbags are their favorites.
Don’t go out and purchase expensive gifts. Tell her you need to go shopping for something for yourself and take her with you. After you make your purchase (shirt etc.) than ask her if she would like a pair of shoes or handbag then walk her to a store. Again you can purchase a nice pair of shoes for her for a couple hundred Thai baht, most nice shoes are under 300 baht and handbags under 400 Thai baht. Thai girls love shoes and handbags in a lot of different colors so don’t spend a lot of money on one item. She will need more in different colors in the future and a nice gift they all love.

Another gift men love to give which is not very important to Thai women except on special occasions are flowers. Many Thai girls feel this is not practical and a waste of money. If you do buy flowers make sure it is the right color. The wrong color can have a negative meaning. The two best colors are white and red. White means you miss or missed her, which is great to give when you haven’t seen her in a while. Red is telling her you love her and is good for Valentines Day, birthday or New Years. Yellow is in mourning so don’t give her those as yellow is for funerals.

The Engagement

Now you are both in Love and you are ready for ask for her hand in marriage. Take her to a nice restaurant for a Romantic dinner and just ask her, that’s all there is to it. Don’t purchase a ring or anything. If she says yes congratulations. Don’t worry about her parents and what they might say or want, as they already know all about you. They know their daughter loves you and she has already consulted with them and they gave their approval. The next step is to take her to a gold shop and purchase a nice necklace for her. Nothing to big and flashy but just something she likes. Let her make the choice but you keep it, don’t give it to her yet.

It is now time to go and ask her parents. You should take a well-respected Thai friend along (male) who can tell them about your good character. When you go take pictures of your family, your house and any other personal pictures that shows what your life is like back home. Then give the gold necklace to your future wife in front of them. Ask if you can marry her and say how much you love her and why. She will give the necklace to her mother who will have it blessed by a monk and return it to her. You are now engaged.

Now you can live together until the wedding. The wedding date will be set by first consulting a trusted Buddhist Monk or church pastor. Then the wedding plans can begin. You will have little or no say on how many people, where it will be held, how much it will cost or who to invite. Of course your family and close friends will be allowed to participate and attend.

In summary Thai Ladies are very smart and not the innocent little creatures western men make them out to be. If you do it the Thai way, slowly, smartly, and kindly you can have a wonderful partner for life as I have. If not you will pay the price for sure, mentally and financially.

I hope this helps in understanding the Thai way of romance. Remember things are done much differently in their culture and they are not going to do it any other way, trust me.

Randy and Ning

Dating and Romance Thai Style
That might be an interesting post ... for men looking for courtship leading to marriage.
But the thread topic is "First BKK trip" and the OP is a married man traveling with his wife.

Western men coming here -- with wives or without -- will be approached by Thai women, in very subtle and indirect ways.
Men on their first trip here are unlikely to be aware of the methods and motives of Thai women.
So, advice for first-time men, about Thai women approaching them, is certainly in order.
And that has already been well-covered on this thread.

But one aspect which has not yet been mentioned, is advice for men who are traveling with their wives (Western women, not Thai wives).
Those men, on their first trip, should be aware that your wife's behavior may change once you arrive in Thailand!

I live in a tourist area of Bangkok, so I see this behavior every day.
A few examples of what you might expect on a first BKK trip, with a Western wife:

Wife holding husband's hand in a grip of steel.
I am certain wife never does this back home where holding a man's hand has become verboten.
And what I observe here is not a soft, gentle, romantic, twining of fingers.
Instead, it is a desperate, rigid, grasp, accompanied by the wife's grim, jaw-set, face.
.
Wife wears low-cut, revealing, tight, tops.
Not even during maximum summer heat and humidity in cities back home, did I ever see so much Caucasian cleavage as can be seen among tourist wives in Bangkok.
.
Wife suddenly needs to look at something far away when an especially pretty Thai girl appears nearby.
The body language of wife dragging husband away -- like a naughty dog on a short leash -- is hilarious.
Even my Thai friends get many laughs from this particular antic of Western wives.

At the hotel where I live, I sometimes talk with other Western men at the pool or the gym.
Since I obviously know my way around the facilities, some men start a conversation with me, as men might do in any gym or at poolside.
They ask for advice about restaurants and shows and things to do and see besides tagging along on their wife's shopping trips.
If the wife appears during our conversation, the atmosphere turns frosty indeed.
As soon as the wife learns that I live in Bangkok, and presumably that I know my way around the city, she insists, "We have to go now, dear," and drags the forlorn husband off to the room, or shopping, or somewhere.
I observe it again and again.
(This applies only to Western wives. Thai wives are very different.)

So, for men who are coming to Bangkok for the first time (thread topic), here is some advice:

You will be surprised at how differently you are treated by Thai women, compared to what you are used to from women at home.
.
If you are traveling here with your wife (Western woman), her behavior, also, may be surprisingly different than how she normally acts at home.


-- Peter

Sounds like you were taken advantage of by a Thai lady, Peter. Is that why you are so anti-Thai?

I lived in BKK for over a year with my wife. She never exhibited any of the traits you mention below.

The one less-than-perfect aspect was the feeling of having to be on guard whenever we were in heavily touristed areas

I can imagine you would, after reading through some of the nonsensical "advice" you were given on this thread!

Glad you had a nice trip and plan to return. Bangkok is a fascinating city.

And thanks MegatopLover and others for setting the record straight.

Hi Billp,

Yea it takes lots of money to be a licended guide. You first have to take the Tourism Authority of Thailand class for a month or so which cost more than 10,000 Baht.

Another reason to take travellers to shops is the tour operator gets 20 to 50 baht for each person that walks in the door if they make a purchase or not. They then split the money with the guide. If it is a big package tour with 20+ persons and they go to 4 or more shops it adds up. On most private tours the driver gets the money and splits it with the guide.

From the airport in Phuket they have a nice scam going as most of the shops are along the way to almost all the hotels. Once you get into the vehicle at the airport they tell you there is an accident and the road is blocked and needs to be cleared to take you to your hotel. They then say "we will stop here at the Jewelry (furniture, silk or other) shop because it is air conditioned and we will wait for the road to clear". If this happens to you just say "No lets go to the hotel".

They are a little nicer about it in Chiang Mai as any taxi, tuk tuk or songteaw should take you to the shops or factories for free if you ask them. When our friend who is a tuk tuk driver was low on money I used to ride with him for a couple of hours visiting as many shops as I can so he can collect the fee for me walking in the door. Since I have been living here for so long every shops know me and it doesn't work anymore.

All the best,
Randy and Ning