On a recent trip to the Orient my companions ATM, issued by a California Credit Union, worked fine in Beijing and Shanghai.

But, we couldn't get it to give us cash anywhere in Japan. We tried banks, the post office and more banks. Kept getting various messages that account doesn't exist, system is down, network is down, try later, etc.

The Credit Union doesn't have a clue.

Any thoughts about how to avoid this problem on future Japan trips? Thank Heaven we had American Express Travelers Checks with us.

That's strange. Both countries present challenges for those with US-issued ATM cards, but those problems are usually solvable. In China, your sure bet seems to be the Bank of China (worked every time for me!), although I had about a 20% success rate at other banks displaying the Visa and Mastercard logos. In Japan (and my memory is now a few months old) Citibank and the post offices worked great.

The surprise in Japan is that acceptance of US-cards isn't more widespread: still, with a little planning, I had no real difficulties. I recall being in Himeji and having to ask the tourist office for assistance: they already had directions written up, so it was obviously a common question (the ATM was an ancient post-office affiliated machine in the bowels of the station -- all the modern machines in the fancy banks on the main drag didn't take US-issued cards). Next time, I'd recommend asking the tourist office for help.

Of course, there could have been something strange with your companion's card. But if it was on the Mastercard or Visa network, it should have been possible to get cash somewhere in Japan.

Bank ATM's aren't going to help you much. Unless its Citibank, and maybe Shinsei bank ATMs but I haven't tried there yet.

I'm suprised the post office ATM didnt work for you (how many did you try?)

For my part I've never had problems using my US based debit card at Post Offices, or Citibank ATMs.

It's definitely a crapshoot when using ATM machines. I've always been lucky with the machine just outside the lobby of the Shinagawa Prince (using VISA ATM card). I have also found that the Post Office locations are the best places to use US-based cc/ATM cards.

never had a problem with my Wells Fargo ATM/debit card at a post office.

However, keep in mind you're going to get hit for several fees on each transaction. Not just for out of network but for currency conversion; and of course there's no telling if you get a great conversion rate or not. But it is darned convenient to get yen out of a machine when needed.

FWIW, my bro in law had no trouble with his cards in China but could only use the PO in Japan.

Just a thought, but how many digits does your PIN have? The Japanese ATMs pretty much only work for 4-digit PINs.

JR

The card in question has a four digit ATM.

We tried the post office at the Imperial Hotel on the concierge's suggestion after strking out at half a dozen banks in the Imperial Palace area. That ATM at the Post Office didn't work for us either.

Post Office ATMs generally work, the only guess I can come up with is that at the time you used the PO machine, the network or somthing was indeed down. Did you try any other Post Office or was that it?

Again I have a US bank card that works fine. Citibank works fine too, if you are in the Tokyo region they can be found around, outside the Tokyo region its scarce. http://www.citibank.co.jp/en/shpatm/al001a_index.html

...
However, keep in mind you're going to get hit for several fees on each transaction. Not just for out of network but for currency conversion; and of course there's no telling if you get a great conversion rate or not. But it is darned convenient to get yen out of a machine when needed....


I once did an experiment at Narita airport and got Y20,000 at each of two different machines (one Citibank, one not) right in sequence. The amount debited to my account -- which is a Citibank account at home -- was within Y10 of being identical from both machines. This is hardly conclusive but it does at least suggest that whatever the fees are, they are the same no matter what machine you use in Japan -- IF the card is accepted, that is!

Credit unions act differently than banks, and I suspect that's the root of the OP's companion's problem. My credit union ATM card has 73 different cash machine symbols on the back, but it was still useless at a Japanese post office, and a handful of Japanese banks. Luckily, it did work at a Ginza CitiBank cash machine.

Just a few weeks ago, I asked a credit union teller what's up with the unpredictable foreign cash machine situation. She fed me a cock and bull story, so I've just decided that though I'm generally very happy "banking" at a credit union, this is just one way they can't serve me.

So...I bring cash and occasionally get cash from credit cards. Another route one can follow is to charge stuff to credit cards, though this isn't always so easy in Japan.

I was in Japan, Thailand, and Cambodia last month. My credit union Visa CheckCard/ATM card worked fine. I used the post office ATMs in Tokyo, which my hotel had pre-printed directions for. However, I didn't try using my CheckCard for signature purchases - as it has "timed out" on other foreign trips and caused me a bit of embarassment despite abundant funds being available. I have a credit card and check card at the same credit union so I was able to use online banking to easily transfer money as needed. A pain, but convenient when my travel money is in the same place.

I used my ATM (Citi) card at main post offices in Japan with no problems. Is the one at the Imperial hotel a branch post office by chance?

On a recent trip to the Orient my companions ATM, issued by a California Credit Union, worked fine in Beijing and Shanghai.

But, we couldn't get it to give us cash anywhere in Japan. We tried banks, the post office and more banks. Kept getting various messages that account doesn't exist, system is down, network is down, try later, etc.

The Credit Union doesn't have a clue.

Any thoughts about how to avoid this problem on future Japan trips? Thank Heaven we had American Express Travelers Checks with us.

My credit union sent out a letter saying that its debit cards were not usable in Japan, South Korea, or Canada (huh? Canada?) due to problems with fraud. At least that's what they said. It may be some credit union quirk.

For that reason, I always use my Citibank debit card when I'm overseas, and I've had no problems.

I once did an experiment at Narita airport and got Y20,000 at each of two different machines (one Citibank, one not) right in sequence. The amount debited to my account -- which is a Citibank account at home -- was within Y10 of being identical from both machines. This is hardly conclusive but it does at least suggest that whatever the fees are, they are the same no matter what machine you use in Japan -- IF the card is accepted, that is!
when I got home and checked my bank statement, my home bank (Wells Fargo) had tacked several charges onto every transaction.

Also, FWIW, there was an article in the LA Times travel section about banks quarantining areas to their bank/ATM cards from time to time without warning because of fraud. So it's not impossible.

The post office at the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo where the ATM card was rejected appeared to be a genuine Japanese PO, e.g., they were selling stamps. And, I saw several locals get money out of the two ATMs there while I was waiting. So, the machines were working.

Guess Travelers' checks still have their place. @:-)

Ah but traveler's checks are a bit hard to use in Japan as well depending on where you plan to use them.

I dont know if its somthing with credit unions, or if that post office ATM was just not connecting to the international network for some odd reason. If you are there again, give another PO atm a try or use the Citibank atms.

I used my Etrade ATM card while in Osaka and Fukuoka. Upside was that my fees were completely reimbursed by Etrade, downside was the only place I found that it worked was Post Office (tried various banks and conveninece store ATMs).

I cashed an Amex traveers' check in Kyoto at a Citibank branch. Took about ten minutes. But, at least, I got the cash! ;) An ATM would have been faster, if they had worked for us.

By the way, the Citibank teller kept asking me something I didn't understand, but which I finally realised was "Do you have Citibank relationship?" I answered no, but later on realized I have an AA credit card with Citi. Wonder if thiings would have gone faster (or if I would have gotten a better rate) if I had answered yes. @:-)

I'm trying to understand,
When you were at that citibank branch did you try using your credit union card at the citibank ATM?

If it didn't work at a Citibank ATM and didn't work at the Post Office ATM both of which work for international transactions, then there's just somthing up with the card itself, or that particular credit union you/your companion belong to when it comes to Japan transactions.

Someone mentioned credit unions operate differently from banks, and someone mentioned they used their credit union card fine at post offices.

So the conclusion I can come up with is a general flyertalk conclusion to some situations:

When it comes to Credit Union cards and ATMs in Japan: YMMV

Yep, we did try the Credit Union Card at the Citi ATM in Kyoto. No go.

But, I am now considering a solution to the problem. Just got an offer from Citbank for 10K AA miles to open an account. Guess that should give me some miles and an ATM card that works in Japan. See the latest posts in this thread for more info on the offer. http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527759&page=4&pp=15

I hate to give quasi monopoly's the business, but 10K is 10K. :p