15 new A321s will begin arriving in 2008...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060830/law053.html?.v=65

15 new A321s will begin arriving in 2008...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060830/law053.html?.v=65

Well there it is.....16F/167Y :td:

16F/167Y :td: :td: :td: :td:

Bye-bye Dougie.... @:-)

16F/167Y :td: :td: :td: :td:

:mad: Bad decision. :td: :td: :td: :td: :td:

What will this do to the seat pitch? They're going from 26/143 to 16/167? How do you get 24 extra coach seats by taking out 10 first class seats?? :confused:

Well, I guess that answers the A321 debate
16F/167Y :td: :td: :td: :td:

There really is no debating this.

There is absolutely, positively, no way that US management will leave the A321s configured as they are. While they may not have set a definitive time line yet, it absolutely will happen.

But, you're right -- for those who were holding onto the dream, this should certainly confirm it. They won't have A321s with such different configurations.

There really is no debating this.

There is absolutely, positively, no way that US management will leave the A321s configured as they are. While they may not have set a definitive time line yet, it absolutely will happen.

I totally agree. I would have bet more money on US getting the A380 than the A321's staying in their existing configuration! With everything going on...it just seemed that the handwriting was on the wall.

I totally agree. I would have bet more money on US getting the A380 than the A321's staying in their existing configuration! With everything going on...it just seemed that the handwriting was on the wall.

They could probably jam a few more rows on there if they reduced F pitch to 34" and Y to 29". I wouldn't put it past them. Oh, and those wide exit rows have GOT to go on the A321s. So much wasted space! :mad: :td: :mad:

They could probably jam a few more rows on there if they reduced F pitch to 34" and Y to 29". I wouldn't put it past them. Oh, and those wide exit rows have GOT to go on the A321s. So much wasted space! :mad: :td: :mad:
Agreed. While they are locked in on airframe and engines, they can change interior configs pretty late in the game. So who knows what they'll come out with...but I would bet on less F!

It's going to be fun watching one of those fully loaded pigs try to make a transcon flight with ~20 extra pax and their bags in the middle of summer. Hello, fuel stop! I think it's probably safe to assume that most of these birds are going be going to the East because a fully loaded 321 with that much capacity isn't going to have the legs out of PHX or LAS on a hot summer day.

It's going to be fun watching one of those fully loaded pigs try to make a transcon flight with ~20 extra pax and their bags in the middle of summer. Hello, fuel stop! I think it's probably safe to assume that most of these birds are going be going to the East because a fully loaded 321 with that much capacity isn't going to have the legs out of PHX or LAS on a hot summer day.
Yes...the 321's range sucks. I doubt they'll see much duty in the west unless it's short-haul under 2000 miles. Like you, I can't see one of these pulling out of LAS fully loaded on a 105 degree day bound for FLL.

Yes...the 321's range sucks. I doubt they'll see much duty in the west unless it's short-haul under 2000 miles. Like you, I can't see one of these pulling out of LAS fully loaded on a 105 degree day bound for FLL.
True, but I can very easily see one of them pulling out of LAS bound for FLL at 11pm.

16F/167Y :td: :td: :td: :td:

What?!? What the matter with you? You dislike with few seat configuration? :(

So whats the speculation on which routes will these new A321s fly? Will they be for expansion or replacing older AC (maybe some 757s?).

So whats the speculation on which routes will these new A321s fly? Will they be for expansion or replacing older AC (maybe some 757s?).

I think the 737s will be the first to go. With the E90s, they can fly a lot of the same routes slightly more frequently with a nice F cabin.

However, I too would like to see the 757s get the ax first. I was miserably uncomfortable in 2F.

They will probably be replacing some 757s. US has a few they have to return because of very expensive maintenance checks coming.

The HP F Class configuration is enough reason for me to dramatically reducee US. I flew a few West flights earlier this year and the disgusting F food, compared with the cramped F cabins were enough to drive me away. Just as an example, a guy on the HP 757 reclined his F Class seat rapidly right into my tray table smashing my beverage. Heck, it isn't this bad in coach, at least I hope not--I haven't been on an HP coach flight since 2001.

But will they have power ports??

It's going to be fun watching one of those fully loaded pigs try to make a transcon flight with ~20 extra pax and their bags in the middle of summer. Hello, fuel stop! I think it's probably safe to assume that most of these birds are going be going to the East because a fully loaded 321 with that much capacity isn't going to have the legs out of PHX or LAS on a hot summer day.

This isn't as much of a concern taken with the fact that they said a while ago there was a plan for more 757s on transcon once the integration was complete. Of course, that raises the (even worse) specter of 8F transcons. :mad:

I still think they'll rationalize the 757s and 321s to 16 each, which would be a win and a gain of F seats (well, until you count the new 321 piglets, er, frames).

I think this news says a lot of things. First of all, to those who doubted me in my original thread a few months back, here is me saying it- I told you so.

What's even more important, this says something about the relationship between the new management and FFOCUS. There were many FFOCUS members who have believed that they were "in the know" the whole time, and continued to claim that Tempe had not made this decision yet. Well, seems pretty clear that they've made a decision, with or without informing you or seeking your opinion, and if they did, they obviously don't care.

Here's to Doug Parker and his wonderful new team :rolleyes:

Current A321: 26F (38") /143Y (32")
New A321: 16F/167Y

How will this be accomplished? Easy.

Rows 5-7 of F become coach, also removing the closet behind 6D/6F. That's 18 seats right there, or 161Y. That's a total of 38" of pitch x 3 rows = 114" coming out. But only 96" are needed for the new coach rows (assuming 32" pitch). So, with those 24" extra inches (114"-96"), they need to find 8 more inches for a 4th coach row. Probably done by reducing each of the 4 F rows from 38" to 36".

Or...they can reduce enough coach rows from 32" to 31" to accomodate the needed space.

I am amazed! How an airline with PHL, LAS and PHX as hubs can pick the 321 blows my mind! I do think the CLT-LAS / PHX route is prime for this type ... It just limits the options when you pick this type.

Check out an excerpt from the AP release on the story:

AP
US Airways Boosts Airbus Order
Wednesday August 30, 9:23 pm ET
By Chris Kahn, Associated Press Writer
US Airways Orders More Airbus Aircraft


PHOENIX (AP) -- US Airways Group Inc. said Wednesday it will buy seven additional Airbus A321 jets to replace retiring aircraft, and modified and accelerated orders for other Airbus planes. ...
The A321 has a longer range and larger seating capacity than the A320 and A319. Terms of the deal were not disclosed."

Oh, really?

So, with those 24" extra inches (114"-96"), they need to find 8 more inches for a 4th coach row. Probably done by reducing each of the 4 F rows from 38" to 36".

Or...they can reduce enough coach rows from 32" to 31" to accomodate the needed space.


I bet you are right - most of the US East planes had 38" of pitch in first, and all had at least 37", but America West had only 36" of pitch in their first class sections (which may explain why FC on HP always seemed so much smaller to me than FC on US). Sounds like the new airline will probably take the HP approach. :td:

By the way, does it bother anyone else that with 36" of pitch in First Class, HP/US will have exactly the same seat pitch as Economy Plus on the United A320 (which, of course, has 38" in FC)?! :p :mad: :td:

By the way, does it bother anyone else that with 36" of pitch in First Class, HP/US will have exactly the same seat pitch as Economy Plus on the United A320 (which, of course, has 38" in FC)?! :p :mad: :td:

"Value Proposition" also comes to mind...

True, but I can very easily see one of them pulling out of LAS bound for FLL at 11pm.
Fully Loaded at MTOW in the summer for a distance like that? It's all they can do to get this plane from PHX to CLT now. They are flying it on the edge of it's capabilities which are designed for normal conditions. Not to mention if next winter is like last with the horrible headwinds, the westbound A321 just can't hang. It just never had the 757 performance and capability.

I bet they will fly the 321 on routes that sell out consistently, with all of this being a part of the eventual 733 phase-out and the 320 taking over that traffic.

BTW, the original link to the press release isn't working anymore. It's on US's site, tho:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=196799&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=900590&highlight=

David

I think 36" pitch in First is just one inch more than E+ on UA, which is what I'll be taking from now on on those routes.

Fully Loaded at MTOW in the summer for a distance like that? It's all they can do to get this plane from PHX to CLT now. They are flying it on the edge of it's capabilities which are designed for normal conditions. Not to mention if next winter is like last with the horrible headwinds, the westbound A321 just can't hang. It just never had the 757 performance and capability.

I bet they will fly the 321 on routes that sell out consistently, with all of this being a part of the eventual 733 phase-out and the 320 taking over that traffic.

Was on a 321 yesterday PHX-CLT and we were delayed about 10 minutes leaving the gate because they had to get the weight of the plane down. After takeoff, the captain came on the PA and apologized that it was taking so long to climb due to the fact that the plane was so heavy. I've never had a 757 captain, or any other for that matter, apologize for poor climb performance.

Current A321: 26F (38") /143Y (32")
New A321: 16F/167Y

How will this be accomplished? Easy.

Rows 5-7 of F become coach, also removing the closet behind 6D/6F. That's 18 seats right there, or 161Y. That's a total of 38" of pitch x 3 rows = 114" coming out. But only 96" are needed for the new coach rows (assuming 32" pitch). So, with those 24" extra inches (114"-96"), they need to find 8 more inches for a 4th coach row. Probably done by reducing each of the 4 F rows from 38" to 36".

Or...they can reduce enough coach rows from 32" to 31" to accomodate the needed space.
Alternatively, they can use newer seats which are up to 33% thinner (AirTran has them) and can allow for an extra row of seats without giving up seat pitch.

I've never had a 757 captain, or any other for that matter, apologize for poor climb performance.
Doubt you ever will. It was designed for high temperature / high altitude take-off performance. And to this day I believe it is still the fastest commercial jet in terms of climb performance from 0 to 41,000 feet...next to maybe the DC-8 which is only in freight service these days. The seating in the 75 sucks, but this has been a hot bird for quite a long time.