Looking for a little clarification here...
I arrived to the LAS ticket counter over an hour before my xPHX-ATL flight yesterday, and was surprised to find that I had already been moved to a DL n/s flight, leaving at the same time, due to the first leg of my US flight being oversold. (I previously had a seat assignment on US, btw).

I asked if this was a situation where I would receive a compensatory voucher, since it seemed to fit the definition of involunatry denied boarding - it just happened at the ticket counter rather than at the gate. I was told that I did not qualify for the voucher since the move was made on my behalf for my convenience, and guaranteed my transport to my final destination. That explanation seemed flawed, but rather than argue I headed to the DL counter only to find a 30+ minute check-in line, which caused me to miss the 45-minute check-in cut-off at LAS. I ended up waiting in the airport another six hours for the next available flight.

Do I have a case to appeal for some kind of voucher? How is this not IDB?
Thanks.

If you had a seat assignment they wouldn't have picked you to deny boarding they would have picked people w/ no seat assignment. So I am wondering if there was an AC downgrade or if the flight was cancled outright and that is why you where already rebooked on Delta?? Or where you very late? Whrere you at the ticket counter 30 minutes prior or the gate?
If it is as you described I would certianly write a letter and might consider one to Delata to just complaining about the slow line and no kiosk options.

As far as I know, the original US flight went out as scheduled. I was still in the security line when that plane was supposed to leave, on my way to a different terminal, so I don't know if it left as scheduled for sure. (Flt. #3, 7am, LAS-PHX, 8/4/06).

I have a copy of my travel confirmation which shows seat assigments for all four legs of my trip, so yes I did have a seat assignment for that flight.

I got to the airport about 70 minutes prior to departure - I tried the US kiosk, which obviously didn't work because my record had already been moved. The US line was short, however, so I was face-to-face with the ticket agent about 63 minutes prior to departure.

The agent told me the flight was oversold, and I had been moved for "my convenience". I asked about getting a voucher, and that's when she told me I didn't qualify since the bump had been done before I got to the gate, and I was still guaranteed same-day transport. I actually told her I didn't want to fly Delta (wanted to use *A perks), but my seats were already gone. We had a brief, uncomfortable discussion about the definition of "involuntary," but I just kept getting the same explanation.

The only other factor in this was that I was flying on saver miles. That shouldn't matter, should it?

Someone who knows more than I will surely chime in at some point but, I believe, if you arrive within two hours of your original time then they don't owe you a voucher. It sounds like the flight they put you on (despite having missed it) would have gotten you in earlier, therefore "for your convenience". What they did seems to make perfect sense to me.

I disagree, EnvoyBoy. If a flight is oversold, the policy is pretty clear - volunteer's will be sought before anyone is IDB'ed. That didn't appear to happen in this case. Here's the 'Contract of Carriage' (pardon the caps - that's the way it is on the website):

INVOLUNTARY
1) BOARDING PRIORITIES
IF A FLIGHT IS OVERSOLD AND THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH VOLUNTEERS, OTHER PASSENGERS MAY BE DENIED BOARDING INVOLUNTARILY, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FOLLOWING:

A) THE LAST PASSENGER(S)WITHOUT A SEAT ASSIGNMENT TO PRESENT HIM/HERSELF AT THE BOARDING GATE WILL BE DENIED BOARDING IN THE EVENT OF AN OVERSALE.

B) REASONABLE EFFORTS WILL BE MADE TO ACCOMMODATE CUSTOMERS WITH DISABILITES, ELDERLY, AND UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN UNDER 15 YEARS OF AGE.

It sure doesn't sound like this was followed.

As for the compensation (voucher, etc):

2) AMOUNT OF COMPENSATION
HP WILL PAY COMPENSATION FOR INVOLUNTARY DENIED BOARDING:

A) ON HP ONLY, IN THE AMOUNT OF 200% OF THE SUM OF THE VALUES OF THE PASSENGER'S REMAINING FLIGHT COUPONS OR APPROPRIATE FARE OF THE TICKET TO THE PASSENGER'S NEXT STOPOVER, OR IF NONE, TO HIS/HER DESTINATION, BUT NOT MORE THAN USD 400.00.

HOWEVER, THE COMPENSATION SHALL BE ONE HALF OF THE AMOUNT DESCRIBED ABOVE, BUT NOT MORE THAN USD 200.00, IF HP ARRANGES FOR COMPARABLE AIR TRANSPORTATION, OR FOR OTHER TRANSPORTATION ACCEPTABLE TO THE PASSENGER, SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE NOT LATER THAN TWO (2) HOURS AFTER THE PLANNED ARRIVAL, AT THE AIRPORT OF THE PASSENGER'S NEXT STOPOVER, OR AT THE AIRPORT OF THE PASSENGER'S DESTINATION OF THE FLIGHT ON WHICH THE PASSENGER HOLDS A CONFIRMED RESERVATION, OR

B) BY PROVIDING FREE AIR TRANSPORTATION IN LIEU OF THE MONETARY COMPENSATION STATED ABOVE.

3) WAIVER OF PAYMENT OF COMPENSATION

NO DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION PAYMENT WILL BE MADE IF:

A) THE DENIED BOARDING IS A RESULT OF A SUBSTITUTION OF EQUIPMENT OF LESSER CAPACITY WHEN REQUIRED BY OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY REASONS,

B) THE PASSENGER IS ACCOMMODATED ON A FLIGHT SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE WITHIN ONE (1) HOUR OF THE ORIGINAL ARRIVAL TIME.

Looks like no compensation is due. However, if the policy for denied boarding had been followed, could the reroute have been accomplished in time to make the DL flight scheduled to leave at the same time? If not, there would have been compensation due, and not just a voucher.

Jim

I believe Jim is absolutely right. My recollection is that we all hashed this out here on FT about 2 years back and several folks reported back that upon arrival at their departure airport when this sort of scenario took place, they asked for, and were given full vouchers.

Someone should, however, dig more deeply on this one to get the final and correct answer. All of our pontificating is meaningless until we can ascertain what the actual US policy is once and for all.

Anyone?

Preposterous. "For your convenience" is total crap... how do they know that you didn't need to be in PHX for some reason?

This is a case that should be pushed forward to the appropriate people.

Part of the problem may be the "two airlines sorta operating as one". What I posted above came directly from the HP contract of carriage (the US East flt 3 didn't operate anywhere near LAS or PHX on 8/3/06).

I didn't look, but I suspect the US East contract of carriage would say basically the same thing since IDB is covered by DOT rules.

Likewise, I can't check HP flights thru the East scheduling system that I have access to, but I wonder if this whole situation wasn't caused by the substitution of a smaller plane. Something sure sounds odd about handling overbookings the way this was handled unless the number of passengers booked was greatly in excess of the plane's capacity. It sounds like the agents just started rebooking (and thus denying boarding to) anyone who hadn't checked in yet.

Jim

Thanks for the insight, everyone. It seems like the rules were bent a little in US's favor. But with a confirmed seat the bump should have never happened like that in the first place.

I'll write a letter to customer service and see what they say.

Thanks for the insight, everyone. It seems like the rules were bent a little in US's favor. But with a confirmed seat the bump should have never happened like that in the first place.

I'll write a letter to customer service and see what they say.

Submit copies of your seat assignment confirmations, a copy of the policy from the website, and your boarding passes (if you have them).

Legally, no compensation is due - they got you to your destination in time. Though you could argue - since you missed your cut-off they did not. Your UA Premier status allowed you to except faster check-in in LAS.

Furthermore, I thought the we will solict volunteers before IDBs was VERY standard for US airlines. i have been auto re-routed pre-check in before but nly in cases of weather causing likely misconnects.

I think compensation is due here - ask pollitely - I would use your UA Premier status to your benefit because of the check-in line difference between US and DL.

I checked flightaware and there was no equipment substitution and no delay. As far as I'm concerned, this is an IDB as they did not give you sufficient advance notice of the change to make the DL flight. You had a seat assignment and presented yourself for checkin within the proper timeframe. While they made a reservation for you, they did not actually provide transportation since notice of the change was too late for you to catch the alternate flight. They owe you based on your actual arrival, not what was unrealistically scheduled.

I don't understand why you had to go to the DL ticket counter at all. If they'd given you a gate pass to get through security, you could have taken care of all this at the gate, and would have made the flight. In that case, I don't believe you'd be due any compensation.

Since they didn't, and you didn't make the flight, you should get the full IDB compensation. I'd definitely contact consumer affairs.

I actually think it was a good choice for them to preemptively rebook you. They just should have made sure you got on the airplane.

This type of re-booking may not be that uncommon. It happened to me once, GSP-ATL-DFW on Delta changed to GSP-DFW non-stop on AA. I asked for a $200 voucher and received it.

US might be able to argue that legally they don't owe a voucher, but common sense in the customer service department would say otherwise. Oops, this is US, never mind...

but common sense in the customer service department would say otherwise. Oops, this is US, never mind...

Exactly. OP is lucky they didn't try and charge him an itin. change fee for the added "convenience"... ;)

All kidding aside, and perhaps I'm not reading the posts right - if OP was supposed to get to ATL by X time, and s/he got there at X + 6-12 hours due to too tight of a re-route in LAS, then it seems like US should do something for him/her.

Of course, OP got to the airport 60 minutes prior to departure without yet having checked in, so certainly US was within their right to do the IDB based on check-in status or confirmed seat assignments.

I guess the question is:
If, through no fault of your own, you find you have 20-30 minutes to check-in and clear security for a departing flight, can you cut to the front of the line, or do you act like a good little pax and miss your flight because of a long line for check-in/security/etc.? :confused:

It seems like US should have done something to facilitate an expedient hand-off to DL (and that might have mitigated the IDB issue entirely). See murphy's or us2's comments.

They are supposed to solicit volunteers before involuntarily denying boarding to anyone. Then, if they do involuntarily deny you boarding, rebook you, and get you to your destination within 1 hour of your original flight, they don't owe you any compensation.

Google search "14 CFR 250." That's the law that governs oversales.

OP here,
Just following up to say that five weeks after I mailed in a complaint letter to US Customer Service, I finally received a response back in the mailbox today.
My letter to them specifically outlined the procedural errors that happened, the rules that govern those procedures, and what the correct outcome should have been.
The response was clearly a form letter, dated three weeks ago, which feebly explained how some flights are oversold based on expected/historical load. Whatever.

But the good news is they included a round-trip travel voucher good for one year in the lower 48. Very pleased about that. But they spelled my name wrong on the voucher... ahhh, US.
Thanks to everyone here who helped out and steered me in the right direction.

AC

This is indeed good news...it's too bad you had to fight for it.

Yes the airlines need to be frugal but the gate agents trying to save a buck for the company on your back is not the way to go.