Could US possibly start that route with their current fleet? Would their 762s or A333s have the legs for it?

Do they have the route authority?

Would there be demand for that route, even on just a seasonal basis?

Would their 762s or A333s have the legs for it? No, the 333 just can just barely make it to FCO.

As much as that would be cool, I doubt it. There are a TON of connection opportunities in Europe on the *A and in YYZ on AC. Plus NYC has a much higher concentration of people that travel to Israel frequently and they are already well served by CO, El Al, and the many many European connections. It's unlikely they'd be enticed down to PHL.

Also, I don't believe the aircraft that US currently operates can support it.

The only positive is that it would be only the 2nd *A non-stop to TLV from N. America and the only in the US. I could see UA loyalists taking this flight instead of LH or AC.

No, the 333 just can just barely make it to FCO.

LY flies the 762ER from New York, Chicago, and Toronto. Don't see why US' 762ERs couldn't make the trip.

LY flies the 762ER from New York, Chicago, and Toronto. Don't see why US' 762ERs couldn't make the trip.

The only a/c that anyone flies from NYC to TLV is the 777 and 747. I don't think that US's 767's are the ER version with a range of like 6,700 miles. Having flown LY myself, with their very tight security and 4 armed Israeli agents on each flight makes most people feel better flying them to and from that part of the world. So, I don't think that US could ever compete.

New 777 out of JFK versus old 767 out of PHL...the loads would be very light out of PHL I think.

The only a/c that anyone flies from NYC to TLV is the 777 and 747. I don't think that US's 767's are the ER version with a range of like 6,700 miles. Having flown LY myself, with their very tight security and 4 armed Israeli agents on each flight makes most people feel better flying them to and from that part of the world. So, I don't think that US could ever compete.

New 777 out of JFK versus old 767 out of PHL...the loads would be very light out of PHL I think.

PHL-TLV = 5050nm
All of US Airways planes are 767-200ERs, which have a range of 6600 nm.
Philadelphia has the 4th largest Jewish population in America.
The American-Israel Chamber of Commerce (Central Region) is in Philadelphia.
Philadelphia and Tel Aviv are (official) Sister Cities.
Philadelphia has an Israeli Consulate.

In reponse to the Originating Poster, the best chances for service from PHL to TLV will probably come from EL AL when they acquire additional aircraft. EL AL appears to be concentrating on expanding to Asia at the moment with their current cadre of aircraft. US could still try it, but as stated earlier, the security requirements for the route are something US may not wish to undertake. ATH would probably come first.

FYI AC does YYZ-TLV with a 767-300ER.

LY flies the 762ER from New York, Chicago, and Toronto. Don't see why US' 762ERs couldn't make the trip.

El Al flies a 767 to Miami - now that's a hike!

LY flies the 762ER from New York, Chicago, and Toronto. Don't see why US' 762ERs couldn't make the trip.

LY currently does not use the 762 to any of those (YYZ is a 763, JFK has no 762s until the winter, and ORD stops in Newark). They do use the 762ER on MIA-TLV, however, which is longer than any of those. A 762ER can fly PHL-TLV.

I guess so. :)

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=196799&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1188607&highlight=

Since this became a reality it's really interesting to see this idea being discussed 2 years ago and the reasons for/against it. ^

Will be flown on new A330-200 coming out in 2009. Configured 6/500 with the introduction of strap hangers.

This is a route where they could probably sell F service. Not J service with a $300 upsell: true F service. Sure, they'll get a lot of temple and church groups, but those will be balanced out by the people who never travel anywhere unless they dripping with jewelry.

I remember going to dinner at the home of a very wealthy couple in Jerusalem when I was studying there (junior year abroad). The wife used to fly to New York twice a year to buy clothes.

We also have a close family friend who has dual citizenship, and apartments in both Manhattan (Upper West Side) and Tel Aviv. She flies back and forth 2-3 times/year and buys business class.

While US-TLV may not be a heavily trafficked business route, alot of the leisure travelers will actually pay hard dollars for premium cabin service. Folks, I think that this route is going to be a very tough upgrade for those of us who want to use miles. I just hope that US configures their premium cabins to allow at least a few mileage upgrade seats, or at least a decent amount of exit row/bulkhead Y seats with decent legroom. 12 hours in 30" pitch is akin to abuse.

This is a route where they could probably sell F service. Not J service with a $300 upsell: true F service. Sure, they'll get a lot of temple and church groups, but those will be balanced out by the people who never travel anywhere unless they dripping with jewelry.

I remember going to dinner at the home of a very wealthy couple in Jerusalem when I was studying there (junior year abroad). The wife used to fly to New York twice a year to buy clothes.

We also have a close family friend who has dual citizenship, and apartments in both Manhattan (Upper West Side) and Tel Aviv. She flies back and forth 2-3 times/year and buys business class.

While US-TLV may not be a heavily trafficked business route, alot of the leisure travelers will actually pay hard dollars for premium cabin service. Folks, I think that this route is going to be a very tough upgrade for those of us who want to use miles. I just hope that US configures their premium cabins to allow at least a few mileage upgrade seats, or at least a decent amount of exit row/bulkhead Y seats with decent legroom. 12 hours in 30" pitch is akin to abuse.

Agreed and experienced first hand on all points. Premium cabins always sell very well to TLV. Just ask any CO FF how difficult it is to redeem miles in BusinessFirst to TLV from EWR.

Israel and the United States have one of the most cooperative "dual citizenship" programs of any two countries in the world. There are thousands of people who commute regularly at the drop of a hat and make homes in both countries.

Philadelphia and central/southern NJ also have vibrant, wealthy, and large Jewish communities. Additionally, several large Israeli companies have their US operations in or near Philadelphia (Teva Pharmaceuticals is a good example). In fact, Tel Aviv is Philadelphia's sister city. Also, this will be only the second non-stop to Israel on the *A from N. America and the only one from the United States.

US can really do well with this route if it plays its cards right. It needs to make sure there's glatt kosher food available, the connections to other major cities in the US are sound (particularly: ATL, LGA, ORD, LAX, MIA, BWI, DCA), and the premium service is, well, premium.

US can really do well with this route if it plays its cards right. It needs to make sure there's glatt kosher food available, the connections to other major cities in the US are sound (particularly: ATL, LGA, ORD, LAX, MIA, BWI, DCA), and the premium service is, well, premium.

PHL should also give the TLV flight first takeoff priority on Thursday nights, so the flight lands in TLV with plenty of time for their Orthodox Jewish customers to clear customs & immigration, and arrive at their destination prior to the Sabbath beginning at sundown.

I can't imagine Customer Relations knowing how to respond to complaints from irate customers who were forced to break the Sabbath due to PHL's operational snafus. :rolleyes:

PHL should also give the TLV flight first takeoff priority on Thursday nights, so the flight lands in TLV with plenty of time for their Orthodox Jewish customers to clear customs & immigration, and arrive at their destination prior to the Sabbath beginning at sundown.

I can't imagine Customer Relations knowing how to respond to complaints from irate customers who were forced to break the Sabbath due to PHL's operational snafus. :rolleyes:

I was under the impression that keeping the Sabbath was the responsibility of the individual, no? Shouldn't they not be taking a Thursday night overnight flight if they know delays are a possibility? :confused:

And for that matter, what about the Orthodox Jews on other flights waiting to take-off out of PHL who will be late because the TLV flight skipped to the head of the line?

I was under the impression that keeping the Sabbath was the responsibility of the individual, no? Shouldn't they not be taking a Thursday night overnight flight if they know delays are a possibility? :confused:

And for that matter, what about the Orthodox Jews on other flights waiting to take-off out of PHL who will be late because the TLV flight skipped to the head of the line?

There are COUNTLESS stories throughout the last 50 years about issues due to the Sabbath and flights to Israel.

Entire planes insisting on landing in Europe as sundown was approaching ... airlines having to put people up for DAYS in hotels when Shabbat was preceded or followed by other observant holidays (Yom Tov) ... lawsuits ... discrimination claims ... etc. I could go on and on.

But yes, in the end it's the responsibility of the individual who decides whether or not to board the plane.

During the winter when Shabbat starts early (like as early as 4 or 5 pm), you can be sure few religious Jews will risk taking the Thursday evening flight.

I was under the impression that keeping the Sabbath was the responsibility of the individual, no? Shouldn't they not be taking a Thursday night overnight flight if they know delays are a possibility? :confused:



Yes, and yes. But that does not preclude people from being stupid. :D

Let's just say that the "fallout" from a lengthy delay on the Thursday night flight to TLV will be substantially higher than any other international departure. :rolleyes:

Yes, and yes. But that does not preclude people from being stupid. :D

Let's just say that the "fallout" from a lengthy delay on the Thursday night flight to TLV will be substantially higher than any other international departure. :rolleyes:

I'm going to tend to feel that this is a rather minor issue, with regard to US and scheduling.

Considering the fact that the DL nonstop from ATL arrives at 5:25PM on Friday afternoons; and I don't think that's really hurt the flight loads.

If my memory serves me correctly, back in the day, one of the more crowded flights was the Friday night TWA Shabbos special from JFK-TLV. :p They sort of had a lock on the market, with El Al out of the picture on Friday nights. ;)

Philadelphia and central/southern NJ also have vibrant, wealthy, and large Jewish communities. Additionally, several large Israeli companies have their US operations in or near Philadelphia (Teva Pharmaceuticals is a good example). In fact, Tel Aviv is Philadelphia's sister city. Also, this will be only the second non-stop to Israel on the *A from N. America and the only one from the United States.

While I'm personally not Jewish, I can safely say that there are a huge number of Jews in the metro area. My friends who've done the Birthright sponsored trips (I think that's the proper name) to Israel always had to take buses to/from NYC. Given that NYC has such a large and prominent Jewish community, the PHL community gets overshadowed. Ed Rendell, former Phila mayor and now PA Gov is Jewish himself, as a small example.

Plus, that doesn't even change the fact that business people will travel to Israel's tech and biotech firms and other tourists visiting as part of assorted Holy Land tours.

This route will work well for US, very well.