According to this week's "About US" employee newsletter.... starting in the fall, East A319/A320 will be reconfigured to West standards (seating totals and pitch).

They don't plan on reconfiguring B757s on either side.

Also, it mentions they are considering reducing the A321 First cabin from 26 to 16 to better match the number of paying First Class customers. If they move forward with this, it will begin in the fall.

Straight from the horse's mouth, courtesy of JustPlaneNews.com....

Q. I'm currently a West flight attendant and was wondering if
there are any plans to make the configuration of our East and
West planes similar. I know from working on the East side that
the Airbus bulkheads are much different and the galleys are, too.
That’s without mentioning the number of seats on each aircraft
type. In addition, the B757 and B737 are all configured differently.
Are there any plans to match things up before we begin working on
each other's metal next year?


A. Beginning this fall the East A319s and A320s will be converted
to match the seating configurations and pitch of the West fleet.
There still will still be some differences due to a few monuments
that are very expensive to move. But the number of first class and
coach seats will be the same. We also are considering reducing the
number of first class seats on the A321 form 26 to 16, which is more
consistent with the number of paying first class customers on board.
If we move forward with this, the A321 conversion will happen
early next year. Currently, we have no plans to convert the B757s to
a common configuration (the West planes are largely going to be on
Hawaii routes). Changes to the B737 will depend on the future of
the type in the fleet.

Wow. Big thumbs down. Kiss elite upgrades goodbye on the transcon routes - and that's what I fly all the time, SFO-CLT/PHL. Horribly stupid. I'd rather get guaranteed E+ on United than fret about getting stuck in US Y.

That might be the last straw.

Edit: It *will* be the last straw. If they chop 10 seats out of the A321 F cabin, I'm cutting my shiny new Gold card up and mailing it to Doug Parker, along with the receipts for about $6,700 worth of travel on his airline so far this year.

Edit: It *will* be the last straw. If they chop 10 seats out of the A321 F cabin, I'm cutting my shiny new Gold card up and mailing it to Doug Parker, along with the receipts for about $6,500 worth of travel this year on his airline.

travis, the sad thing is they will hem and haw for the rest of 2006 about it to keep us all flying (and giving them $$) and then do it in early 2007, once its too late to matter.

Given their trend of only doing things that screw the frequent customers, I would assume 26->16 is a done deal, and start earning status elsewhere.

The thing is....

If they remove 5 sets of seats (3 on one side, 2 on the other), that's -10 F seats and +15 Y seats, or a net increase of 5 actual passengers. WOW. Let the money start rolling in.

Since the A321 is a pig with wings already, I can't see how adding more weight can be of any use. The thing can never fly fully loaded out of PHX on a hot day, that's for sure. It's VERY underpowered according to any pilot or mech that works on it. No matter what Airbus does, the A321 will never be an answer to fill a 757 need.

travis, the sad thing is they will hem and haw for the rest of 2006 about it to keep us all flying (and giving them $$) and then do it in early 2007, once its too late to matter.

Given their trend of only doing things that screw the frequent customers, I would assume 26->16 is a done deal, and start earning status elsewhere.

Hem and haw like the CCY gang telling us that the E170's would have FC, then announce they wouldn't? :td: :td: :td:

I agree with Travis, this move wouldn't make status other than CP worth a whole lot for those of us who mostly do transcon routes (when we do fly, that is).

... telling us that the E170's would have FC, then announce they wouldn't?
This is more bad news.
Regarding the E170's - actually, I guess the E190's since the 170's are a done deal. Has there been any confirmation on the configuration of the 190's or are they also apt to be one class?

The 190s are likely to stay two-class, if only because going over the seat count they have now would result in more than 100 seats, hence three flight attendants.

11/88 is the announced config...

From the first time I flew HP last summer and noticed the smaller F cabins, I knew the new US would be all about removing F seats from US East planes. And now they're not even planning on adding seats back to the East 757s!?! I'm so glad that I only have 33 segments to go before I'm plat on NW, where the minimum F cabin on any mainline jet is 16 seats.

Good riddance US.

If US Airways cuts back on the number of first class seats available for upgrades I will switch to the airline that I feel that I have the best chance to upgrade on as an elite. For the past 20 years I have flown the airline where I knew I would have the best chance to upgrade.

Reducing first class cabin size is a good way to chase away higher fare paying business customers.

US now has the 70 seat E170 and 90 seat CRJ90 serving CMH, neither of which feature a single F seat. We're down to three mainline 733 flights a day (2xCLT, 1xDCA) and if US is serious about getting rid of F seats on my connection then I'm seriously moving on. When you live in a market serviced by so many RJ's your only elite benefit is priority boarding -- making Silver as valuable as Chairman's and I've already got that locked up for next year. Congrats, Doug, on making your transition to a unified "LCC" as elite friendly as possible. :rolleyes:

This should not be a surprise to anyone who has been around US since before the merger.

US lost me when they went from 24 F seats on a 757 to 8. No, they couldn't do 16 - they had to dessimate a great configuration to 8! The F experience on a 757 on US is a complete joke. 16 on a 321 is not as bad.

I'm surprised at any US elite of more than a year in the FT community- merger or not - who still believes that US plans on operating a FF program that will give out a lot of free upgrades. They want CASH.

I've flown US several times this year - under my United number - and have upgraded several times at the gate, with payment, ahead of CPs on the waitlist. My sister flew herself and my parents out of RSW a few weeks back and upgraded the three of them, with payment, at the gate, ahead of elites.

I really believe that If Mr. Johnny I-Fly-Once-A-Year has payment at the gate, Mr. 125 segments will go to the back.

US now has the 70 seat E170 and 90 seat CRJ90 serving CMH, neither of which feature a single F seat. We're down to three mainline 733 flights a day (2xCLT, 1xDCA) and if US is serious about getting rid of F seats on my connection then I'm seriously moving on. When you live in a market serviced by so many RJ's your only elite benefit is priority boarding -- making Silver as valuable as Chairman's and I've already got that locked up for next year. Congrats, Doug, on making your transition to a unified "LCC" as elite friendly as possible. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I agree. I fly into CMH almost every week and used to take the 7:30pm DCA-CMH flight b/c it was a 737. They just swapped out for a 170. So no FC anymore. Dang, they are shooting themselves in the foot! :mad:

This is just bad news all around. It was bad enough with the 757s.

Honestly, the large FC cabin on the A319/A321 is actually one of the few things remaining that I really liked about US. It was one place where Silver and Gold Preferreds actually had a fighting chance at getting one of the so-called "unlimited" upgrades.

Now if someone would ask me to name one thing that I REALLY like about USAirways today... I'm not sure that I'd have an answer.

How can an airline shoot themselves directly in the foot like that?

As someone who will probably drop down to Gold next year, the change has two deficiencies for me. The first one, a decrease in upgrades has already been discussed. Also, there will be a decrease in pitch in the Y cabin, since an additional row of seats will be added to the aircraft (taking out 1 row of F and add 2 rows of Y). THAT could be the dealbreaker for me.

What good will CP be in a year? Half of the routes are on RJs already...crappy seating with no FC...and now they rip seats out of F on the big transcon flights. The ONLY thing that keeps me on usairways is the ability to upgrade. Take that away and what good is it to be CP?

As someone who will probably drop down to Gold next year, the change has two deficiencies for me. The first one, a decrease in upgrades has already been discussed. Also, there will be a decrease in pitch in the Y cabin, since an additional row of seats will be added to the aircraft (taking out 1 row of F and add 2 rows of Y). THAT could be the dealbreaker for me.

You hit it on the head, AB. According to Seatguru:

HP 320:
pitch width seats/legrests
First Class: 36.0" 20.0" 12 seats
Coach Class: 30-32.0" 17.2" 138 seats

US 320
pitch width seats/legrests
First Class: 38.0" 21.0" 16 seats
Coach Class: 32.0" 18.0" 126 seats

US's 320's seats in both classes are wider and have more pitch than HP's. I presume the Y cabin in the 321's will be downgraded accordingly. It's a double-whammy! Those extra 2" in Y make a huge difference!

90% of my flying is transcon. Unless I can confirm a mileage upgrade at the time of booking, I will be giving my transcon business to UA, which (since the merger) is usually about $150-$200 cheaper than US, anyway. This of course is assuming I even stick with US next year. That is still TBD.

You hit it on the head, AB. According to Seatguru:

HP 320:
pitch width seats/legrests
First Class: 36.0" 20.0" 12 seats
Coach Class: 30-32.0" 17.2" 138 seats

US 320
pitch width seats/legrests
First Class: 38.0" 21.0" 16 seats
Coach Class: 32.0" 18.0" 126 seats


if legroom is changing because they're removing a row of F and adding two rows of Y, the change should be limited to the seats in front of the exit rows. so, i would expect to see 30" in front of the exits, and 32" behind. US will then tag the 30" seating as the "elite zone". go figure.

What good will CP be in a year? Half of the routes are on RJs already...crappy seating with no FC...and now they rip seats out of F on the big transcon flights. The ONLY thing that keeps me on usairways is the ability to upgrade. Take that away and what good is it to be CP?

You'll receive a very important looking black and gray card that proclaims your Chairmans Preferred status and some nearly unusable Hawaii (service and seats suck even in F) and Envoy upgrade coupons. I noticed that they've taken away the ability to redeem the coupons for 1,000 miles each if you don't use them. No surprise there! I've been waiting for the last 6 weeks for the miles to post from last year's batch that I mailed to Miami. :td:

My initial reaction to this was that they are just trying to match what the competition has to offer for their typical transcon offering, but then I checked seatguru:

AA 757: 22 F, 39" pitch/31" Y pitch
UA 757: 24 F, 38" pitch/36" Y+/31" Y+ pitch
CO 757: 24 F, 38" pitch/31" Y pitch
DL 757: 24 F, 37" pitch/31" Y pitch

"new" US 321: 16 F, 36" pitch/30-32" Y pitch (TBD)

So clearly the new 321 is not just equal to the competition, it's inferior.

This sounds like one of the worst cases of the new US management being penny wise, pound foolish. Like previous posters said, all this for a net gain of 10 Y seats just makes no sense.

What is my motivation again for not heading over to UA for E+ transcon service???

Like previous posters said, all this for a net gain of 10 Y seats just makes no sense

I think the calculation was that it's actually a net gain of just 5 seats (+15Y-10F). On the other hand, with planes flying as full as they are, the extra five seats can bring in the incremental revenue which at this point is the difference between profitability and failure. Also, with demand where it is, US may have decided that they can afford to lose all those elites who've made their status on MRs and who don't bring in that much revenue -- along with a few of those who do.

I think the calculation was that it's actually a net gain of just 5 seats (+15Y-10F). On the other hand, with planes flying as full as they are, the extra five seats can bring in the incremental revenue which at this point is the difference between profitability and failure. Also, with demand where it is, US may have decided that they can afford to lose all those elites who've made their status on MRs and who don't bring in that much revenue -- along with a few of those who do.


It is disappointing. It is an opportunity to use those A321s as a marketing tool. US AIRWAYS A321 service with 24 First Class seats and more room in coach than other Aircraft. I.E. More Upselling of seats. I think the problem is that US is seeing the demand and the supply as so good they can do anything they want.. who cares about good will. BUT, if the market changes, and more options open up.. then US is going to have to compete on cost... since their service is not a differentiator....

It is the reason I would never fly Cathay Pacific across to Hong Kong in Coach... too small.... UA would always get my $$$ (even if it wasn't for *Alliance). UA has better seating in Y when u need to fly Y.

BTW, just sent an email to the chairman's email address.... let's get the feedbback going early on this....

I'm so glad that I only have 33 segments to go before I'm plat on NW, where the minimum F cabin on any mainline jet is 16 seats.

Good riddance US.



Same here!!!! ^ ^ ^

I know that NW is not the answer to every airlines problems, but it is DA*N nice having a HOT meal in F!!!

Last week I flew PHL-MSP-PHL. US wouldve invited me to fly on an RJ, but on NW I flew in F and have a HOT breakfast, and GREAT HOT dinner. This on a flight UNDER 2 hours.

I have contacted US sr mngt and requested that they fly the competitors routes if they care. No answer except that "its purely money!"

Oh well, hope to see you in F on NW! At least we will get fed!!!!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

I think the calculation was that it's actually a net gain of just 5 seats (+15Y-10F). On the other hand, with planes flying as full as they are, the extra five seats can bring in the incremental revenue which at this point is the difference between profitability and failure. Also, with demand where it is, US may have decided that they can afford to lose all those elites who've made their status on MRs and who don't bring in that much revenue -- along with a few of those who do.

Without knowing the margin on each one of those seats, I doubt it would replace the $ lost by the number of elites that leave the program due to these aircraft changes.

I agree with LAX1K. This is US's shot at differentiating itself. Most of the other legacy carriers are finding their marketing hook (DL's random European destinations, UA's E+ and p.s., etc). What is US? It's not low fare (think WN), it's not full service (think UA/AA), it's not 36 channels of DirecTV (B6). The merger was their shot at forming a true identity. I think they are missing their chance very quickly.

Why is everything coming from the West side so trashy? I knew those idiots were going to destroy our airline.

AA 757: 22 F, 39" pitch/31" Y pitch
UA 757: 24 F, 38" pitch/36" Y+/31" Y+ pitch
CO 757: 24 F, 38" pitch/31" Y pitch
DL 757: 24 F, 37" pitch/31" Y pitch


FWIW, CO's 757-200's are all being converted to a 16-seat BusinessFirst configuration with new touchscreen audio/video-on-demand and an in-seat power outlet. It's harder to score an upgrade, but worth the gamble. Continental cut their 757-300 from 24F to 12F a while back, but has recently converted them all back to 24F after they discovered that they were missing revenue opportunities with only three rows of F.

Skyteam is looking good....

In addition to the above CO will be *adding* 2 FC seats to its 737-800/900 aircraft, which make up the bulk of the fleet...and do most of the long hauls...making it 16-20 on a 160 passenger aircraft. They're doing it by installing digital entertainment equipment that takes less space.

Those 757-200s going from 24-->16 are offset just about equally in number by the upconversion of the 757-300s to 24 seats.

Tougher than anywhere to get an upgrade on CO because people actually pay for a solid product, but at least they know which way is the right way to go.

Add to that Delta converting all the song 757s from all-coach to 24 seats in first / satellite TV, and forthcoming improvements to the service, and you have some nice options...esp if Delta gets added to the reciprocal upgrades for CO/NW.

Skyteam is looking good....

Tougher than anywhere to get an upgrade on CO because people actually pay for a solid product, but at least they know which way is the right way to go.



It just goes to show that if you make a good product and price it right, people will buy it. US East failed on both of those fronts. When they did price it right, it was after they reconfigured the 757s, and customers who WANTED to buy first class couldn't because it was sold out.

According to this week's "About US" employee newsletter.... starting in the fall, East A319/A320 will be reconfigured to West standards (seating totals and pitch).

They don't plan on reconfiguring B757s on either side.

Also, it mentions they are considering reducing the A321 First cabin from 26 to 16 to better match the number of paying First Class customers. If they move forward with this, it will begin in the fall.

What is the difference in "pitch" between US-legacy and HP F A-319 and A-320 F seats? Does HP have a better or worse pitch than US-legacy? I also hope this means that the wings on the HP F seats will be making their way over to US-legacy.

The F seats on HP's 319s are decent, but the 320s are horrible! You seriously can't get out of your seat if the person in front of you is fully reclined.

The folks in the sandcastle overlooked that when you acquire a large Northeastern route network, you also acquire the winter weather that comes with it. How do they expect to hang everyone's heavy coats if they remove all the closets?

Sorry to say but if you want to fly F just pay for it.
The discussion is about getting something for free which was ok in the days when BEFORE deregulation but it seems that not everybody has understood that airlines have to earn money.
If just 2 seats would be added these can turn a flight from red to black ink.
I also have to fly US and am not happy with it but I understand their move

Sorry to say but if you want to fly F just pay for it.
The discussion is about getting something for free which was ok in the days when BEFORE deregulation but it seems that not everybody has understood that airlines have to earn money.
If just 2 seats would be added these can turn a flight from red to black ink.
I also have to fly US and am not happy with it but I understand their move

But Elites do pay for it. They choose to buy tickets from their preferred airline with the expectation that their loyalty will be rewarded with benefits, which include upgrades to F. If upgrades were severely reduced, many Elites would switch loyalties.

As for myself, I'll be an elite for the first time by the end of August (US Silver), and I'm already wondering how long I'll last in DM if some of these changes are implemented.

Sorry to say but if you want to fly F just pay for it.
If you think we expect to be upgraded for free, you are mistaken. Loyalty to an airline has a cost. There are lots of times I book on US when it would be cheaper or faster to take someone else. This is the premium I pay to be Preferred and I expect something in return.

Sorry to say but if you want to fly F just pay for it.
The discussion is about getting something for free which was ok in the days when BEFORE deregulation but it seems that not everybody has understood that airlines have to earn money.
If just 2 seats would be added these can turn a flight from red to black ink.
I also have to fly US and am not happy with it but I understand their move

The only way to get an F seat for sure is to pay for it, but if I can score an upgrade on NW or CO then US has to do the same to attract my long-term business. I've flown enough to earn top-tier status on two airlines (CO & US) and will likely requalify as a Platinum on US next year. Upgrading me to an otherwise empty F seat on one of my rare non-RJ trips is hardly "something for free."

But Elites do pay for it. They choose to buy tickets from their preferred airline with the expectation that their loyalty will be rewarded with benefits, which include upgrades to F. If upgrades were severely reduced, many Elites would switch loyalties.

As for myself, I'll be an elite for the first time by the end of August (US Silver), and I'm already wondering how long I'll last in DM if some of these changes are implemented.

I'll do you one better: absent benefits and assuming that all coach (save E+ or heaven forbid B6 with TV) is the same, why have loyalty at all?

A lot of the time when I want to go somewhere on my own personal dime, I'll buy F. I don't do that (generally) on the employer's dime (domestically, anyway). And I buy J/C internationally on the work dime.

As a result of what US has done in the past 3 years (I was one of the original defectors) I've dropped from CP to GP to nothing next year (I don't think they are going to pass out soft landings anymore). US has lost between $25 and $50k in spend because of this (per year).

I've had top teir on two airlines (US and BA), mid tier on 2 (US and AA), and bottom tier on a bunch (US, AA, UA, CO off the top of my head). At this point, I'd sooner be bottom rung with two others than mid teir with US. It'll probably be UA and CO next year, and I'll shoot for midgrade on UA for the next year (my air travel has dropped off pretty drastically--it's mostly short RJ hops).

At the end of the day, if I concentrate my spend/loyalty, it will be with the airline that offers me the greatest return for said loyalty. US is squarely at the bottom of that barrel. Having gone from living in a "hub/focus" market (PIT) to being in various non-hub markets (AVL, RDU, CLE), I've reached the conclusion that there is no reason for non-hub travelers with a choice of airline to fly US. None.

Having gone from living in a "hub/focus" market (PIT) to being in various non-hub markets (AVL, RDU, CLE), I've reached the conclusion that there is no reason for non-hub travelers with a choice of airline to fly US. None.

I agree. I am forced to connect through hubs and I have three choices: US Express, DL (ASA and Comair), and 3 daily flights with NW Airlink. If I travel to airports 2-3 hours away, I have a couple more choices. If I had more options, I would definitely look at other airlines.

Sorry to say but if you want to fly F just pay for it.
The discussion is about getting something for free which was ok in the days when BEFORE deregulation but it seems that not everybody has understood that airlines have to earn money.
If just 2 seats would be added these can turn a flight from red to black ink.
I also have to fly US and am not happy with it but I understand their move

And this summarizes the HP thinking perfectly. Here's my message to you guys: if you want my business, earn it.

So far, it's been ok this year and I'm most of the way to Gold again. Some really good service on a few flights, but I have only managed *two* UG's. That's not gonna cut it. As someone else said, given how much I fly, NW or CO will let me fly up front more often. If US won't, why should I fly them?

I long ago had already had it and made the move over to...GASP...DL. Please don't scream in horror, I'm moving to Atlanta in a few months so it makes sense.

I was status matched from US1 to DL Gold Medallion (equivalent to US Gold). While DL is not exactly my idea of luxury, it is far superior to US on many levels and I would place it somewhere between AA and US in terms of quality. Nice thing is upgrades are free and it's only 75K to top-tier elite. Bad thing is if you don't clear upgrades in advance you cannot go onto the upgrade list at the gate until you physically check-in at the airport (not by checking in on-line). This will place me at a disadvantage when I actually move to ATL. :td:

Point is this...I guess we all assign value to the things that matter most to us in terms of travel. IS DL perfect? No. Does US do some things better than DL? Yes. Will I go back to US since I've tried DL? Not on your life, especially since I won't have to connect through ATL any more.