Wife, self and two children (7 & 4) are doing a China trip this year. We will most likely fly into PVG (Shanghai) and are thinking of taking trains for all/most of the internal travel. Our itinerary will most likely be;

Shanghai - Bengbu (Anhui province) Bengbu - Guanzhou (Guangdong province) Guanzhou - Maoming (or ideally, Gaozhou City) from there we will probably make our way back to Guanzhou fly to Sanya in Hainan Island for a few days and make our way back to Shangahi and home to the US from there.

I'm trying to find out if it's unrealistic for non chinese (or chinese speakers) to try to get around by train, figuring out train schedules etc. of if we should consider hiring a guide to go with us? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated

I'm trying to find out if it's unrealistic for non chinese (or chinese speakers) to try to get around by train, figuring out train schedules etc. of if we should consider hiring a guide to go with us? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated

My understanding of China is that you cannot, under any circumstances, rely on public transport, including trains. This being said, the following quote is from Lonely Planet - China - Getting Around (http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/destinations/asia/china/transport?a=ga)

Long-distance buses are one of the best means of getting around on the ground; they're frequent and cheap (which also translates as crowded and stuffy) but there are extensive services, passable roads and interesting towns and villages en route. An even better mode is the train, which reaches into every province (including Tibet from July 2006) along a 52,000km (32,311mi) network. It's cheap, relatively fast and a safer proposition than buses; the only dangers on the trains are getting your luggage pinched or dying from shock at the state of the toilets.

You might also like to check out Seat 61 (http://www.seat61.com/China.htm) who have quite a great guide to Train Travel in China

My understanding of China is that you cannot, under any circumstances, rely on public transport, including trains.

I have travelled extensively by train in China and have had no problems besides delays. Try contacting CTS or another travel agent who you can find online.

I travelled from Beijing to Shanghai years ago. What I remembered were these:

1) The train had 3 classes of service. 1st class was a sleeper bed in air conditioned comfort, but not a private room. It was 4 beds in a cabin or something like that. 2nd class had a mildly comfortable seat. 3rd class looked pretty sad and uncomfortable.

2) Foreigners couldn't buy 3rd class tix. Foreigners were also charged more than Chinese nationals for the same seat. Chinese nationals couldn't buy 1st class tickets. (That struck me as very odd, but maybe it was a communist thing?)

3) The food they sell on the train was awful. You probably won't like it. Bring something else please.

4) Train ride was for transportation purposes--don't do it to enjoy the scenary (like my family foolishly did).

Good luck!

You're traveling very long distance, and buses are simply not feasible. Also, long distance bus travel in China, in my opinion, is not the safest means of travel. Lots of fatalities on the roadway. In contrast, the trains are very safe and are very reliable. Usually on-time.

Chinese train stations can be very crowded, and you won't find ticket agents that speak English. You have to have your itinerary extremely well translated to have a chance to getting your tickets bought. I suggest you get a travel agent or hotel conciege to get them for you, for a fee.

Bangbu in Anhui is an important train network center. As a result, there are over 30 direct trains a day between Shanghai and Bangbu, including 7 of the faster "T" trains. It takes under 5 hours, so you can easily do it with a soft-seat. No sleeper required.

There is no direct train between Bangbu and Guangzhou. You will need to change train somewhere - fastest is probably Zhengzhou (5 hours + 16 hours).

There are 10 trains a day from Guangzhou to Maoming. About 5.5 hours. But since you're going to Gaozhou, you may indeed find it easier to take a bus directly from Guangzhou.

Now, Maoming/Gaozhou is in SW Guangdong, pretty close to Hainan. You may want to travel by bus/ferry/bus to Sanya, instead of going back to Guangzhou and then fly. Just may.

Wife, self and two children (7 & 4) are doing a China trip this year. We will most likely fly into PVG (Shanghai) and are thinking of taking trains for all/most of the internal travel. Our itinerary will most likely be;

Shanghai - Bengbu (Anhui province) Bengbu - Guanzhou (Guangdong province) Guanzhou - Maoming (or ideally, Gaozhou City) from there we will probably make our way back to Guanzhou fly to Sanya in Hainan Island for a few days and make our way back to Shangahi and home to the US from there.

I'm trying to find out if it's unrealistic for non chinese (or chinese speakers) to try to get around by train, figuring out train schedules etc. of if we should consider hiring a guide to go with us? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated

I'm confused. If you don't speak Chinese, then why are you going to Bengbu and Maoming? These places aren't exactly on the normal tourist circuit.

You shouldn't have any problems with rail travel, as long as the train you are on offers soft sleeper (one compartment would be perfect for your family of four). Learn a few important phrases in Mandarin and you should be fine. I second the advice of contacting CITS or CTS in advance to arrange your rail tickets.

There are actually 4 main classes of services:

Ruan Wo - Soft Sleeper
Ying Wo - Hard Sleeper
Ruan Zuo - Soft Seat
Ying Zuo - Hard Seat

You should only take the "soft" classes, i.e. 1st class. Apparently, for overnight trips (Zhengzhou - Guangzhou), you want the Soft Sleeper.

On a few selected routes, there's also a "Deluxe Soft Sleeper" that sleeps 2 in a cabin instead of 4. No upper berths in the Deluxe.

I rode train in China once, not sure what class since I go with a tour group. All I remember is that it is called soft seat section (as opposed to hard seat, which are wooden benches occupied mostly by locals).

I didn't order food onboard, but did notice that at every station there are locals selling home made meals at dirt cheap price. The food smells real nice, but I didn't buy it because I was worried about the hygene (food exposed in a dusty environment with no insect cover, and there are lots of flies flying around).

The thing I remember the most about that ride is witnessing an old chinese lady being dragged (literally) out by the female attendant for misplacing her ticket. The attendant accused the lady of getting a free ride and pulled her out of the soft seat car by force, seems rather excessive to me.

Actually, I should say that you should be more or less fine even in the slower trains (those without soft sleeper). Soft sleeper is better because it is an enclosed compartment for four whereas hard sleeper is an open compartment of six bunks. Hard sleeper is still fine as a standalone travel option. I've done it many times, but I wouldn't want to do it with young children, as they would more than likely be harassed (in a nice way :eek: ) by the curious Chinese pax, and there would be nowhere for them to hide. Also, Chinese are prolific smokers and you can't escape from it on a train unless you have a soft sleeper compartment to yourself. In the past, it was easier to get soft sleeper tickets on short notice because the majority of Chinese couldn't afford the tickets. That's not so true anymore, so best to plan/book early if possible.

===EDIT===
Just read rkkwan's very good advice on schedules. as he said, you should be fine with soft seats (in fact, those may be the best option available on the routes you are traveling).

I've travelled by train a couple of times in China. Short-haul stuff, we went soft seat. I wouldn't have wanted to buy the tickets myself but I think I could have handled the trip ok. (I didn't have to worry about it, I'm married to a native speaker.)

The train is definitely faster than the bus and I find the bus driving scary.

I'm confused. If you don't speak Chinese, then why are you going to Bengbu and Maoming?

We adopted two girls from China; one from Bengbu in Anhui and the other from Gaozhou City in Guangdong (the closest large town/city seems to be Maoming) We want to visit the areas they are originally from. Taking trains seemed to be a great way to see China, just wanted to make sure it was practical for "foreigners" with small children. Once we've dealt with the emotional part of the journey, we thought it might be nice to chill for a few days before returning to the US hence the trip to Hainan. Thanks for all the help and advice ^

Train travel in China (http://www.seat61.com/China.htm)

Last year my partner and I went from Shanghai to Beijing by train. Some comments:

The schedule was very weird. Something like five trains from Shanghai to Beijing daily, all leaving between 7 and 8 p.m.

The ticket agents spoke no English. Fortunately for me, my partner is a native speaker of Mandarin.

The fares for "soft sleeper" were somewhat more than half of those for air travel. "Soft sleeper" consists of rather nice beds, four to a cabin. We didn't trust strangers around all our luggage while we slept, so we bought four tickets for the two of us. This gave us a nice private cabin, plenty of room, and two meals each (good idea--the meals were pretty small), for considerably less than the cost of air travel plus an acceptable hotel.

It was a looong walk from the tracks to the taxi queue at Beijing Station. As usual in Beijing, "queue" really means "mob". Even when we got to the head of the queue, many taxis wouldn't stop for us, but went past us to other people in the mob, until a police officer pointed to one taxi driver and said "You! You have to take this foreigner!"

All in all, it was an enjoyable trip. I would do it again. Next time I will arrange do it with less luggage, so that we can walk or take the subway away from Beijing Station rather than really having to catch a taxi at the station. (This was a one-way part of an extended business trip in the winter, so we had to schlep all our luggage, including business clothes, heavy clothes, laptop, and a lot of business materials.) And while I can manage air travel almost anywhere without an interpreter, personally I don't think I'd try train travel without a Mandarin speaker with me.

I agree with RKKwan. I travelled extensively on trains throughout China about 5 years ago (13 cities over 4 weeks) to all 4 corners. Unless things have changed, trying to buy tickets at any of the train stations in person at any city other than maybe Beijing, Shanghai, or Guangzhou would have been a nightmare if I didn't have two native Chinese Buddhist monks doing it for me. It is utter chaos at those ticket counters with tens to hundreds in some of the busier ports, people yelling and cutting in lines (if lines existed, which in many cases it didn't), and rarely did anyone speak Chinese. I'm Chinese (though foreign-born) myself and can do conversational Mandarin and even I would have had a huge problem. I felt very bad for the various non-Chinese tourists in the more remote cities we'd see that would helplessly join in the push/shove to the ticket counter. We tried the help the few we could (one French family in particular that I remember) but in the end it was usually every man/woman/child for him/herself. So - if you can pay the premium to have your hotel or travel agency book it beforehand, do it...

As for buses, only took it once on a 12hr trip (train route flooded in southern China). Be prepared for the possibility of livestock on the buses as well - I woke up midway through that trip and accidentally stepped on something lying on the middle of the bus's floor that squealed and made me jump - the busload laughed - it was some farmer's poor little pig. The 'bathroom' pitstops were these small walled off rectangles in the middle of nowhere with pits in them, no walls (at least for the men) between stalls - just one big arena with multiple canals.

Not to scare you - but that's what it was like (esp. outside of Beijing/Datong, Guangzhou, Shanghai). Maybe things have changed?

Oh, and be careful to look after your luggage. I accidentally left a luggage after debarking my train in ChongQing once, and ran back 20mins later. If it wasn't for my monk friends speaking to the train manager and probably her feeling like she might be at risk of some holy punishment if she didn't try to help, we would have never gotten the bag back. By the time she/we found the bag after searching the train 30mins later, the ENTIRE contents had been redistributed among 17 train staff-people. We managed to get almost everything back after the manager yelled at them except for a couple of nice dinner plates - including all of our photos we had developed in the 3 weeks up to that point (the only thing I really wanted to get back from that bag).

Remember your ticket stubs.

I tend to loose them in a pocket or the bottom of the bag, but I did remember them when I was on the train from Shanghai - Beijing. This was a few years ago when I was traveling with a school group to visit Peking University and Tsinghua University. One of the students forgot/lost her ticket and they wouldn't let her out of the station. The guards/police didn't understand her and she didn't speak any Chinese. Luckily one of our professors was a native and he was able to handle the situation and get it cleared up. They were really concerned about people riding for free, moreso than almost anywhere else in the world that I've traveled on trains.

...so, don't lose your ticket stubs. :) Have a great trip!

A huge Thanks to everyone for all the great information & advice ^ . FT really is an amazing travel resource :cool: