Let's think this through before we go too bonkers.

Right now, AZ has to pay CY hard dollars to transport from MXP-LCA. By substituting TLV, AZ would have no hard cost as that route is on AZ metal, and the distance to TLV is just a shade longer than LCA, so the substitution would be of rough equivalence. So, the request for TLV might have been mutually beneficial- flier gets a reasonable substitute desired destination, AZ saves $$$.

AZ chose not to accept the offer, which is their prerogative. How they decided to interpret that request as 'greed' vs. just a trial balloon to potentially benefit BOTH parties, is perplexing.

Let's think this through before we go too bonkers.

Right now, AZ has to pay CY hard dollars to transport from MXP-LCA. By substituting TLV, AZ would have no hard cost, and the distance to TLV is just a shade longer than LCA, so the substitution would be of rough equivalence. So, the request for TLV might have been mutually beneficial- flier gets a reasonable substitute desired destination, AZ saves $$$.

AZ chose not to accept the offer, which is their prerogative. How they decided to interpret that request as 'greed' vs. just a trial balloon to potentially benefit BOTH parties, is perplexing.

HA! It was YOU!!!

:D

so much for letting the "immediate" departures modify their dates...; ahh well, now i guess i dont need to stress about new dates, that window of opportunity is closed....!!!

I think many of us were waiting for the flood to subside before contacting AZ. That's what we get for waiting, I suppose. All I wanted to do was to drop the LCA flights and spend a little fortune in Italy. To the jerk who ruined the goodwill of AZ: Thanks, moron. :mad:

You did the right honorable thing in waiting. I too have not (yet) contacted AZ to make these changes, and I'm handling someone's departure for Memorial Day weekend.

There has been some side-communication about doing something nice for the people in the AZ office in NYC (and YYZ) working this. Anyone willing to coordinate that?

I was planning to send something or another out tomorrow...but if there's some sort of community gift, I'd be happy to participate in that.

Just talked to Mr. N. He just got word from corporate that they no longer allow any changes to the routing. It's no longer possible to even drop the LCA legs. Apparently people were getting too greedy...he had just received an email from a customer requesting to be routed to Tel Aviv instead.

:td: I'd been politely waiting to call Mr. N. I don't travel until August and I figured I'd let others sort out their June/July flights first. So now I guess I lost the golden ticket by having patience???

To those who asked for ridiculous changes: Thanks for Kircshbauming this for everyone.
:td: :mad: :td:

I'm sure that it wasn't just one person who sent AZ over the edge. I'm sure they are overwhelmed beyond belief and stressed out as well. I didnt request TLV but I did inquire about flights from the US, so I consider myself part of the problem as well.

Sometimes the power of Flyertalk is too much for one man to handle. :(

HA HA ok I spoke with him this morning. And he said he was ready for a long day.

I guess that means that getting re-routed to NRT is also out? :D

(just wanted to inject a bit of humor and diffuse some of the frustration out there..)

Let's think this through before we go too bonkers.

Right now, AZ has to pay CY hard dollars to transport from MXP-LCA. By substituting TLV, AZ would have no hard cost as that route is on AZ metal, and the distance to TLV is just a shade longer than LCA, so the substitution would be of rough equivalence. So, the request for TLV might have been mutually beneficial- flier gets a reasonable substitute desired destination, AZ saves $$$.

AZ chose not to accept the offer, which is their prerogative. How they decided to interpret that request as 'greed' vs. just a trial balloon to potentially benefit BOTH parties, is perplexing.

Come on, not all of us were born yesterday. :D

This was not a trial balloon. It was either an actual attempt to get to TLV or an item being used as a negotiating point to get something else, also likely to be a pushing of the envelope.

there goes the strategy of waiting my turn :(

They need to formulate a policy, communicate it to their customers, and stick to it. This 'we'll do something for some' and then go and get frustrated and stop doing anything....well it stinks :mad:

Let's think this through before we go too bonkers.

Right now, AZ has to pay CY hard dollars to transport from MXP-LCA. By substituting TLV, AZ would have no hard cost as that route is on AZ metal, and the distance to TLV is just a shade longer than LCA, so the substitution would be of rough equivalence. So, the request for TLV might have been mutually beneficial- flier gets a reasonable substitute desired destination, AZ saves $$$.

AZ chose not to accept the offer, which is their prerogative. How they decided to interpret that request as 'greed' vs. just a trial balloon to potentially benefit BOTH parties, is perplexing.
Well said, and I agree. From a logical perspective instead of an emotional one, this sudden about-face on Alitalia's part makes no sense. The logic behind their allowing (and even encouraging) people to drop the LCA legs was that it would save them money. Is that no longer a goal of theirs?

It's been almost three weeks and they're still flip-flopping about how they're going to handle these tickets... :rolleyes: I wouldn't be surprised if the "official" policy changes a few more times before all is said and done.

The change of face from AZ was not a decision made by Nicolo. This was a coroporate (Rome) decision independent of all the requests people have made (including the person that requested TLV). It was just bad timing.

The e-mail Nicolo received recently from Rome states that people must fly on their original dates, with their original routings.

Hope this helps.

The change of face from AZ was not a decision made by Nicolo. This was a coroporate (Rome) decision independent of all the requests people have made (including the person that requested TLV). It was just bad timing. If this was independent of all the requests people have made, that means that Alitalia corporate instituted one policy yesterday (allowing the NYC and Canada offices to change routings and drop legs) and retracted it today for no apparent reason other than that they changed their minds.

Well said, and I agree. From a logical perspective instead of an emotional one, this sudden about-face on Alitalia's part makes no sense. The logic behind their allowing (and even encouraging) people to drop the LCA legs was that it would save them money. Is that no longer a goal of theirs?

It's been almost three weeks and they're still flip-flopping about how they're going to handle these tickets... :rolleyes: I wouldn't be surprised if the "official" policy changes a few more times before all is said and done.

Yeah, what's wrong with a simple, "No, if we re-route you to TLV, your ticket will be re-priced"? Something isn't kosher about their response to this. Not into this collective punishment thing. Never have been.

there goes the strategy of waiting my turn :(
Count me in that camp. I'm not traveling until August, and was hoping for a minor date change (though if push comes to shove, I can make the booking dates).
C'est la vie, but as pointed out already, it's possible more changes in "policy" will occur in the next while.
Since I live in Toronto and I'm at the airport frequently, I may drop by their office in T1 one day in the next month and take my chances.

The change of face from AZ was not a decision made by Nicolo. This was a coroporate (Rome) decision independent of all the requests people have made (including the person that requested TLV). It was just bad timing.

The e-mail Nicolo received recently from Rome states that people must fly on their original dates, with their original routings.

Hope this helps.

An email at this hour from Rome?

This will still mean a logisitcal nightmare on AZ's part as almost all reservations have been changed from the original schedule ...

I wonder if this also applies to those who already got their itineraries fixed by Mr. N in NY or Mr. P in Toronto?

The way this is going, could we see 10,000+ posts before all is said and done?

The e-mail Nicolo received recently from Rome states that people must fly on their original dates, with their original routings..

OK I am not impressed with the greediness, but hasn't Alitalia set a precedent once they relented to change some itineraries and abide to the orginal fare rules? It clearly seems that they should do the right thing and work with people under the orginal fare rules and try to reach a beneficial outcome for both sides. It is too bad some people have to try something to the extreme. instead of just getting a stopover in Italy and, godforbid, paying out of their own pocket for a ticket to TLV or wherever they wish to go, like I was prepared to do.

Don't forget ... he had been busy taking calls. It could've arrived earlier during Rome's normal office hour ...An email at this hour from Rome?

I was planning to send something or another out tomorrow...but if there's some sort of community gift, I'd be happy to participate in that.

Who wants to get the miles for ordering the flowers?


Well, I was actually thinking that maybe I should dump Cyprus as kind of a kindness to Alitalia, because I'd be just as happy spending several days in Milan. It's all new to me.

But I don't fly til February, so I imagine we have several more chapters of this saga to go before then.

The change of face from AZ was not a decision made by Nicolo. This was a coroporate (Rome) decision independent of all the requests people have made (including the person that requested TLV). It was just bad timing.

The e-mail Nicolo received recently from Rome states that people must fly on their original dates, with their original routings.

Hope this helps.

But then doesn't that mean that someone at AZ is still going to have deal with everyone who has had unilateral changes imposed? Aren't they still going to ned to be flexible about the LCA segments if they are no longer available? Won't they still save money if they negotiate over the non-AZ operated flights?

Maybe they just don't want to negotiate from the weakened positon of having everyone know in advance what they are willing to do.

The change of face from AZ was not a decision made by Nicolo. This was a coroporate (Rome) decision independent of all the requests people have made (including the person that requested TLV). It was just bad timing.

The e-mail Nicolo received recently from Rome states that people must fly on their original dates, with their original routings.

Hope this helps.

Or, I assume, the original routing as "fixed" by AZ in the reinstatements...i.e. on AZ metal, slightly different dates, not on codeshares, and with the 22-hour stopover in MXP, right?

An email at this hour from Rome?

Excellent point...and isn't today a holiday in Italy??

This turn of events is disappointing... However, not surprising. :(

July dates... No communications with AZ or CT. Had hoped to move dates to after summer season, thoughts of dropping LCA portion, and traveling Italy instead. Although, pleased with what I have.

AZ consistancy would be nice.

I thought waiting a couple of days, to let things calm down would be a good "community" citizen. This idea has backfired on me more than once. Oh, well. :rolleyes:

It just seems strange that when I talked with Mr N yesterday, he was touting the fact that dropping the LCA legs would save AZ so much money and he was glad that some of us were willing to do that. I can understand the frustration with people being greedy, but the sudden about face makes no sense.

An email at this hour from Rome?

My understanding is that the e-mail was from earlier today. I can't speak for whether they are working today or not in Rome....

BTW, I'm in for the group gift....

Well it appears that there is still a large group of us that are still essentially messed up....unilateral date changes, 'swim team' issues, after the fact fare rule changes....now what?

Up until this point, I've been pretty much taking this is stride--taking a 'wait and see' attitude--despite the whole situation. After what I read last night about the hopeful development....and now I am just plain livid. :mad:

Depending on how inundated Mr. N was with requests, this could simply be a way for him to pause the action so he doesn't lose track of all that has transposed. Has Mr. P placed the same moratorium on these request as well?

It's always easy to blame upper mangement for actions that you really want to happen. Maybe there was a pirana frenzy that scared him into a holding pattern?

My understanding is that the e-mail was from earlier today. I can't speak for whether they are working today or not in Rome....

BTW, I'm in for the group gift....

Hallo,

What's this group thing for?


-Little Dragon Kitty

An email at this hour from Rome?They're still there. In my mad :mad: rush to try and drop the LCA portion of the trip, I somehow got forwarded to them. The good news -- they finally corrected my extra month in LCA. The bad -- they're sticking to the revised DRTCA9 even if you've never made the "free" change mentioned elsewhere in this thread. They're denying that it's even possible to change fare bases after they're issued. (apparently front-liners are not FTers). Definitely not interested in dropping the LCA portion even though it would be financially advantageous to them.

Just talked to Mr. N. He just got word from corporate that they no longer allow any changes to the routing. It's no longer possible to even drop the LCA legs. Apparently people were getting too greedy...



I think people were greedy from DAY ONE..........! but thats just my opinion :)

An email at this hour from Rome?

Any decent airline has a desk monitoring booking trends round-the clock. AZ Rome probably saw dozens of Business Class bookings changing at once and looked into the cause.

That said, my ticket is already in transit for overnight delivery to Mr. Nicolo. Should AZ backtrack from our agreement, I have a strong contract case, as I explicitly outlined the terms under which I'd assent to the new fare rules, and AZ ratified (or at a minimum, took actions to allow me to reasonably rely upon a belief of ratification by Alitalia ;)) the same by changing my dates as requested.

Hallo,

What's this group thing for?


-Little Dragon Kitty

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5683635&postcount=5523

Hallo,

What's this group thing for?


-Little Dragon Kitty

For the persons (at AZ NYC and AZ YYZ) who are fixing our messes for us. (They are fixing messes that were of a making from higher ups who had a change of heart for the better and now they are left doing the fix-ups; and being any employee dealing with an employer's mess is rarely fun.)

Depending on how inundated Mr. N was with requests, this could simply be a way for him to pause the action so he doesn't lose track of all that has transposed. Has Mr. P placed the same moratorium on these request as well?

It's always easy to blame upper mangement for actions that you really want to happen. Maybe there was a pirana frenzy that scared him into a holding pattern?


I can absolutely believe that Rome is the culprit here.

After all they have a "reputation" to keep! :D I can absolutely believe that Rome is the culprit here.

For the persons (at AZ NYC and AZ YYZ) who are fixing our messes for us. (They are fixing messes that were of a making from higher ups who had a change of heart for the better and now they are left doing the fix-ups; and being any employee dealing with an employer's mess is rarely fun.)

Understood, and I'm not opposed in the least to the group gift idea, but I didn't speak to peons -- I spoke directly with the Alitalia General Manager for Canada, who then transferred me to the senior Alitalia Customer Care representative for Canada. If it is the case that *they* cannot act "reliably" on behalf of Alitalia, then this is an even bigger sh!tshow than I imagined...

An email at this hour from Rome?

This continues to be a two week roller coaster ride - I need a drink... :confused: :mad: :confused:

I can absolutely believe that Rome is the culprit here.

So can I. The better -- and easier -- thing to do would be AZ simply honor the original fare rules and allow changes in line with those rules without doing a repricing. It'll still be messy but there's not much better a solution. And it would take the pressure of AZ's country office staff and allow for the call centers to start handling things more efficiently. Of course, just because something makes sense to me doesn't mean it makes sense to the airline management. :eek:

Any decent airline has a desk monitoring booking trends round-the clock. AZ Rome probably saw dozens of Business Class bookings changing at once and looked into the cause.
But wasn't Rome the source of this policy [instituted yesterday, rescinded today] in the first place? That's the impression I got, that Messrs. N. and P. were empowered to make these changes by Rome.

Also, regarding the monitoring of booking trends round-the-clock, isn't the apparent inability of AZ to do that what got them into this mess in the first place? :p

For the persons (at AZ NYC and AZ YYZ) who are fixing our messes for us. (They are fixing messes that were of a making from higher ups who had a change of heart for the better and now they are left doing the fix-ups; and being any employee dealing with an employer's mess is rarely fun.)


Oh i seee.. yes. they do deserve to be appreciated for their efforts... they probably have been working like monkeys for the past two weeks.

Ohh :( but I am disappointed about the whole situation now.. not able to do reroutings, stopovers (right?) or even drop the LCA segment anymore.

Well maybe, hopefully, they will have yet another change of heart. Though they should stop doing that.. it is a bit inconsistent to first say no, then say yes, then say no..

-LDK

Understood, and I'm not opposed in the least to the group gift idea, but I didn't speak to peons -- I spoke directly with the Alitalia General Manager for Canada, who then transferred me to the senior Alitalia Customer Care representative for Canada. If it is the case that *they* cannot act "reliably" on behalf of Alitalia, then this is an even bigger sh!tshow than I imagined...

It is disappointing .... but I cannot help but think that AZ needs better managers in Rome. :D

This continues to be a two week roller coaster ride - I need a drink... :confused: :mad: :confused:


I second that...I might even need to break out the good stuff.

If they are going to pursue this one-time changes thing, wouldn't it be better to authorize Orbitz/CT to do it as our agents rather than direct? :confused:

Oh i seee.. yes. they do deserve to be appreciated for their efforts... they probably have been working like monkeys for the past two weeks.

Ohh :( but I am disappointed about the whole situation now.. not able to do reroutings, stopovers (right?) or even drop the LCA segment anymore.

Well maybe, hopefully, they will have yet another change of heart. Though they should stop doing that.. it is a bit inconsistent to first say no, then say yes, then say no..

-LDK

I think we'll get what we want within reason*; and what we are observing is a product of one of few things, including AZ Rome's infamous management style (if it can be called "style"). :D

-----
* TLV is not reasonable for these tickets. ;)

If they are going to pursue this one-time changes thing, wouldn't it be better to authorize Orbitz/CT to do it as our agents rather than direct? :confused:

I prefer AZ handle things and that I don't need to pull in Orbitz/CT/Travelocity.

If they are going to pursue this one-time changes thing, wouldn't it be better to authorize Orbitz/CT to do it as our agents rather than direct? :confused:

I'm done with Orbitz - half of their reps. are clueless, and they get even more so when dealing with AZ phone reps., who are masters in the art of sh*tshow.

I doubt that Orbitz/CT would go along with this. If I were Orbitz/CT/TC I would tell AZ to honor the original fare rules. If AZ does not agree (which is the case here) I would tell AZ to deal directly with the customers ... If they are going to pursue this one-time changes thing, wouldn't it be better to authorize Orbitz/CT to do it as our agents rather than direct? :confused:

I doubt that Orbitz/CT would go along with this. If I were Orbitz/CT/TC I would tell AZ to honor the original fare rules. If AZ does not agree (which is the case here) I would tell AZ to deal directly with the customers ...

I tried the Orbitz route twice - they're worthless. The TAs see the original fare rules in their system, and will steadfastly refuse to make any desirableamendments to the booking because a) "things are still up in the air", b) "we have to reprice, especially because the ticket is so cheap", or my favorite c) "it doesn't matter what the fare rules and consumer laws say - whatever Alitalia tells us over the phone is what we have to go by".

so, if alitalia backtracks, are we back to the letter writing/email blasting technique? if they backtrack, they will be "whelching" on the original fare rules which was the point of the emails.

when should we start up again?

since we were allowed only one change, i was planning mine and, thus, hadn't contact Nicolo/Pepe yet. i am pretty much ready. if i am denied the original fare rules, i will need to start the emails/letters/formal complaints to authorities, no?

so, if alitalia backtracks, are we back to the letter writing/email blasting technique? if they backtrack, they will be "whelching" on the original fare rules which was the point of the emails.

when should we start up again?

since we were allowed only one change, i was planning mine and, thus, hadn't contact Nicolo/Pepe yet. i am pretty much ready. if i am denied the original fare rules, i will need to start the emails/letters/formal complaints to authorities, no?

Would be interested in what everybody thinks about this.

I tried the Orbitz route twice - they're worthless. The TAs see the original fare rules in their system, and will steadfastly refuse to make any desirableamendments to the booking because a) "things are still up in the air", b) "we have to reprice, especially because the ticket is so cheap", or my favorite c) "it doesn't matter what the fare rules and consumer laws say - whatever Alitalia tells us over the phone is what we have to go by".

Along the above, AZ is the only party positioned to resolve this matter to mitigate the mess at the lowest cost and without dragging in more parties than minimally needed.

Would be interested in what everybody thinks about this.

Indeed. All the more so because I got Messrs. Pepe and Castiglioni to agree to my changes in writing (and Castiglioni, at least, has the power within the scope of his employment to agree to what I proposed) - Alitalia effectively lost any legal leverage it had with respect to fighting me, as I can easily make a bad faith argument on top of everything else.

so, if alitalia backtracks, are we back to the letter writing/email blasting technique? if they backtrack, they will be "whelching" on the original fare rules which was the point of the emails.

when should we start up again?

since we were allowed only one change, i was planning mine and, thus, hadn't contact Nicolo/Pepe yet. i am pretty much ready. if i am denied the original fare rules, i will need to start the emails/letters/formal complaints to authorities, no?

this would seem to be the logical way to go....the fundamental issue is still there for most

Would be interested in what everybody thinks about this.

The key though would be to find the relevant players in Rome - if it's Italy causing the mess, then we have to target the relevant middle/senior managers for further mass communication.

I think what we are seeing now is a result of either of two things:

Possibility No. 1: AZ doesn't know about Flyertalk, and the communication that goes on here. After the letter and e-mail writing campaigns, somebody at AZ decided to address issues for those who e-mailed/called on a case-by-case basis. Those people in turn disseminated the information on Flyertalk, and we began to rely on a "policy" that never in fact existed. AZ may have been willing to drop a LCA segment here and there or let an indivudal depart ex-USA here and there, but they certainly don't want this happening for all 500+ bookings, and when they realized that we were all requesting it, they instead formed a concrete policy of "no changes." I think they will stick to it at this point.

Possibility No. 2: Mr. N never had the authority to drop the LCA segments, but when someone raised the possibility, he thought it was a good idea (clearly, Mr. N can think outside the box, unlike most at AZ). You have to admit, we all thought it was a bit incredulous that a bureaucratic airline would do this, but we were pleasantly surprised. But, I remember Mr. N advising one poster yesterday that he would have to check with Rome about it. Maybe he did, and maybe (being the bureaucrats they are), they balked and told him no. In that case, no more LCA segments can be dropped and I would even guess that those who did drop might see those segments re-appear on their itineraries (or, maybe you'll get lucky and those segments will stay dropped).

I'm just happy my orginal Itin is back and as far as I'm concerned going to stay there. I was told there would be notes placed in my record for one minor thing, and just to go to MIA to get it restickered. And be good to go. That's what I'm sticking to. If I drive all the way down there at 3.10 a gallon in a jeep. I will be not a happy FT.

I think what we are seeing now is a result of either of two things:

Possibility No. 1: AZ doesn't know about Flyertalk, and the communication that goes on here. After the letter and e-mail writing campaigns, somebody at AZ decided to address issues for those who e-mailed/called on a case-by-case basis. Those people in turn disseminated the information on Flyertalk, and we began to rely on a "policy" that never in fact existed. AZ may have been willing to drop a LCA segment here and there or let an indivudal depart ex-USA here and there, but they certainly don't want this happening for all 500+ bookings, and when they realized that we were all requesting it, they instead formed a concrete policy of "no changes." I think they will stick to it at this point.
I can't see how this would be the case. If it made sense for them and saved them money to drop non-AZ segments yesterday, why would it no longer make sense for them to do so today?


...I remember Mr. N advising one poster yesterday that he would have to check with Rome about it. Maybe he did, and maybe (being the bureaucrats they are), they balked and told him no...
This, I can imagine, is possible, although it still wouldn't make sense.

I think what we are seeing now is a result of either of two things:

Possibility No. 1: AZ doesn't know about Flyertalk, and the communication that goes on here. After the letter and e-mail writing campaigns, somebody at AZ decided to address issues for those who e-mailed/called on a case-by-case basis. Those people in turn disseminated the information on Flyertalk, and we began to rely on a "policy" that never in fact existed. AZ may have been willing to drop a LCA segment here and there or let an indivudal depart ex-USA here and there, but they certainly don't want this happening for all 500+ bookings, and when they realized that we were all requesting it, they instead formed a concrete policy of "no changes." I think they will stick to it at this point.

Possibility No. 2: Mr. N never had the authority to drop the LCA segments, but when someone raised the possibility, he thought it was a good idea (clearly, Mr. N can think outside the box, unlike most at AZ). You have to admit, we all thought it was a bit incredulous that a bureaucratic airline would do this, but we were pleasantly surprised. But, I remember Mr. N advising one poster yesterday that he would have to check with Rome about it. Maybe he did, and maybe (being the bureaucrats they are), they balked and told him no. In that case, no more LCA segments can be dropped and I would even guess that those who did drop might see those segments re-appear on their itineraries (or, maybe you'll get lucky and those segments will stay dropped).

Mr N knows about FT. This morning when he called me he mentioned how his name and number were posted on a "website" and he expected to be very busy today.

If I drive all the way down there at 3.10 a gallon in a jeep. I will be not a happy FT.

It isn't AZ's problem that you don't own a hybrid... :p

I can't see how this would be the case. If it made sense for them and saved them money to drop non-AZ segments yesterday, why would it no longer make sense for them to do so today?

I think you're missing the point. This is AZ we're talking about, things aren't supposed to make sense.

Mr N knows about FT. This morning when he called me he mentioned how his name and number were posted on a "website" and he expected to be very busy today.

Actually, I think Mr. N FOUND OUT about FT. When the case-by-case decisions were made, I doubt they knew about FT or contemplated that the information would be immediately shared with hundreds of other individuals.

[QUOTE=senoreit]I can't see how this would be the case. If it made sense for them and saved them money to drop non-AZ segments yesterday, why would it no longer make sense for them to do so today?

I think it definitely could be the case. AZ doesn't care if 500 people spend money in Italy...maybe they even figure that if they hold people to the LCA legs they booked, they won't fly. I think it made sense to make a few changes on a case-by-case basis to appease people who e-mailed/faxed, and to look like they were reaching some resolution on cases that might go to the BBB or the regulators. They don't want to apply this policy across the boards, if for nothing more, than to make a point and make us as unhappy as we've made them.

I don't have much to say expect my hopes have once again been deflated... and that AZ continues to befuddle the masses and we WILL see 10,000 posts (as another FT'er mentioned) from all this chaos.

Back to my roller coaster seat now and be on "quiet" mode... :p

That stinks if someone is adversely affected by not being able to get out of the LCA leg.

But, Cyprus isn't a bad "back up" plan. :cool:

I think it definitely could be the case. AZ doesn't care if 500 people spend money in Italy...
Their potential financial "gain" has far less to do with the hope that people will spend money in Italy and far more to do with potentially not having to pay CY and the American carriers for all these codeshared business class seats.


They don't want to apply this policy across the boards, if for nothing more, than to make a point and make us as unhappy as we've made them.
If that's their philosophy, trying to "stick it" to the people who purchased these tickets even if it means greater financial loss to them, no wonder they're in the financial shape they're in.

Has anyone actually gone into the YYZ office and had their changes made.... ...onsite? If so please let me know how it went...I'm only 15 minutes from the office but wanted to know your approach and how sucessful anyone was. Thanks!!

Ok Here's my story.....
Called NY office yesterday got them to drop mxp-lca-mxp portions and change the date do the dates i wanted.
Mr. Nicolo told me to go to the airport today to get them reissued. The first agent at the ticket counter wanted to reissue the ticket with just yyz-mxp-yyz but the station manager said that there is no way he is reissuing tickets when stickers will do. He called the NY office who told him that they want them to reissue the tickets so that it could say in the endorments NO CHANGES PERMITTED. The station manager kept arguing that he doesnt want to get in trouble for reissuing the tickets. After arguing for an hour with NY he just stickered my tickets from yyz-fco to yyz-mxp and didnt rip out my fco-lca-mxp portions. On mytripandmore.com i still show fco-lca-mxp. Whats interesting is that when i spoke to Mr. Nicoli yesterday he told me that yyz knows about the new policy of one free change and when i got to the airport they had no idea. I hope i didnt mess anything up by going to the airport, but Mr. Nicoli did specifically ask me if i could go by today so that they wouldnt be overloaded with people changing tickets in the middle of peak summer travel...

while i would love to drop the LCA leg on one of my tix, i cant believe you guys are so pissed about them not allowing it. it would be cool, but they are in no way required to do it. why would you start a letter writing campaign about it? what would you even say? that they wont do something extra for you?

according to my convo with mr N, they are allowing changes and addition of stopovers still (though only a one time thing), and i think this is fair. they are also allowing you to take the original routing you booked (they are reinstating all of those), or if you want, you can change from a YYZ-NYC-MXP to a YYZ-MXP flight, thus eliminating the extra money for them. you cannot change the departure city from YYZ to NYC or BOS. that would have been awesome, but you cant complain they arent allowing it as the original fare was from YYZ.

i would say calm down, the early birds were lucky, but we are still getting largely what we booked, and i think it is fair, especially since they are allowing Mr N to make changes...

r

Ohh :( but I am disappointed about the whole situation now.. not able to do reroutings, stopovers (right?) or even drop the LCA segment anymore.Okay, so what are the odds that the withdrawal of the LCA-dropping option will stay in place? There's only one reason to keep it in place -- to force those who'd rather see Italy than Cyprus to cancel altogether. But for those who won't, what's the point of forcing us to go to LCA? Dropping it truly is a mutually beneficial option -- those of us who'd rather see Italy get to do that and AZ saves the $$$ it would otherwise have to spend on the Cyprus flights. :confused:

Ok Here's my story.....
Called NY office yesterday got them to drop mxp-lca-mxp portions and change the date do the dates i wanted.
Mr. Nicolo told me to go to the airport today to get them reissued. The first agent at the ticket counter wanted to reissue the ticket with just yyz-mxp-yyz but the station manager said that there is no way he is reissuing tickets when stickers will do. He called the NY office who told him that they want them to reissue the tickets so that it could say in the endorments NO CHANGES PERMITTED. The station manager kept arguing that he doesnt want to get in trouble for reissuing the tickets. After arguing for an hour with NY he just stickered my tickets from yyz-fco to yyz-mxp and didnt rip out my fco-lca-mxp portions. On mytripandmore.com i still show fco-lca-mxp. Whats interesting is that when i spoke to Mr. Nicoli yesterday he told me that yyz knows about the new policy of one free change and when i got to the airport they had no idea. I hope i didnt mess anything up by going to the airport, but Mr. Nicoli did specifically ask me if i could go by today so that they wouldnt be overloaded with people changing tickets in the middle of peak summer travel...
...i guess i will wait a few more days so that yyz desk gets up to speed.

Excellent point...and isn't today a holiday in Italy??

It might as well be. The 'real' holiday is tomorrow.

I believe further progress will happen as from Wednesday.

It might as well be. The 'real' holiday is tomorrow.

I believe further progress will happen as from Wednesday.

No, the real holiday was today with a "bridge" on Monday.

Don't worry you'll hear about it on the news over there in Tampa.

I think what we are seeing now is a result of either of two things:

Possibility No. 1: AZ doesn't know about Flyertalk, and the communication that goes on here. After the letter and e-mail writing campaigns, somebody at AZ decided to address issues for those who e-mailed/called on a case-by-case basis. Those people in turn disseminated the information on Flyertalk, and we began to rely on a "policy" that never in fact existed. AZ may have been willing to drop a LCA segment here and there or let an indivudal depart ex-USA here and there, but they certainly don't want this happening for all 500+ bookings, and when they realized that we were all requesting it, they instead formed a concrete policy of "no changes." I think they will stick to it at this point.

Possibility No. 2: Mr. N never had the authority to drop the LCA segments, but when someone raised the possibility, he thought it was a good idea (clearly, Mr. N can think outside the box, unlike most at AZ). You have to admit, we all thought it was a bit incredulous that a bureaucratic airline would do this, but we were pleasantly surprised. But, I remember Mr. N advising one poster yesterday that he would have to check with Rome about it. Maybe he did, and maybe (being the bureaucrats they are), they balked and told him no. In that case, no more LCA segments can be dropped and I would even guess that those who did drop might see those segments re-appear on their itineraries (or, maybe you'll get lucky and those segments will stay dropped).

"AZ doesn't know about Flyertalk" -- there was an article in La Republica about Alitalia and www.flyertalk.com.

The article:

http://www.repubblica.it/supplementi/af/2006/04/24/primopiano/010timecs.html

And a crude translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.repubblica.it%2Fsuppl ementi%2Faf%2F2006%2F04%2F24%2Fprimopiano%2F010tim ecs.html&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

I like how the translation comes out to "fire messages"....

No, the real holiday was today with a "bridge" on Monday.

Sorry, I'm used to being a day in front of you and overworked the calculation.

Same result though, don't expect anything else until Wednesday, which for me is today.

Vivan los puentes!

The article:
http://www.repubblica.it/supplementi/af/2006/04/24/primopiano/010timecs.html
Thanks for the link!
"Uncovered the error, the Italian company has tried to check the damage refusing to honor some reservations, changing the timetables and introducing limitations in the use of tickets business. Result: the community of FlyerTalk is rebelled: 5 mila persons have left fire messages in the "forum" Internet, other guerrillas of the low cost have sent email to squall to Cimoli and the manager of the group. There is who dreams a maxicausa and who of it is useful in order to expose on Internet the dirty cloth of the Alitalia.":D

The article:

http://www.repubblica.it/supplementi/af/2006/04/24/primopiano/010timecs.html

And a crude translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.repubblica.it%2Fsuppl ementi%2Faf%2F2006%2F04%2F24%2Fprimopiano%2F010tim ecs.html&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

I like how the translation comes out to "fire messages"....


LOL.. the google translation is very funny :D

I'm hoping AZ changes their minds about the no-dropping-LCA thing. keep in mind that it could just be usualy corporate inertia and bureaucracy that's keeping AZ from making an official statement, maybe after a few more days they'll finally get it sorted out. I think allowing one change in exchange for accepting the new rules is a great move, so here's to hoping they offer it to all of us

Thanks for the link!
"Uncovered the error, the Italian company has tried to check the damage refusing to honor some reservations, changing the timetables and introducing limitations in the use of tickets business. Result: the community of FlyerTalk is rebelled: 5 mila persons have left fire messages in the "forum" Internet, other guerrillas of the low cost have sent email to squall to Cimoli and the manager of the group. There is who dreams a maxicausa and who of it is useful in order to expose on Internet the dirty cloth of the Alitalia.":D

Very funny. :D

What Alitalia and that media outlet should realize is that many of the posters in this forum can yet be recruited to be part of the Alitalia Defense Force, and help clean up Alitalia's reputation. :D

When I spoke to Mr. N., he seemed to be upset about his company's decision. He said more than once that he wished he could drop the segments to LCA, and he agreed with me that that would save AZ some money. I'd say, they will continue to change their minds, and if your trip is a few months away, you may well be able to drop the LCA segments, or make other changes you can only dream of today. If your aim is to change dates, however, it may be advisable to call soon, as they currently seem to offer this option. Good luck to all (including those wishing to see Tel Aviv)!

Was the ex-US segment part of your original itinerary? Also, what city is it?

No, it wasn't. But I did drop the LCA seg on one of 2 itins. The city is EWR (which is in my opinion the most convenient airport in the area to get to from Manhattan).

I've been able to view my itinerary all along on Worldspan's www.mytripandmore.com. Now, after Mr. N did some tinkering this morning I get this message:

"My Trip & More has recognized a flight schedule change; therefore, unable to display your itinerary, please contact your Worldspan Travel Agent."

Anyone else see this? Any idea what it means?

I've been able to view my itinerary all along on Worldspan's www.mytripandmore.com. Now, after Mr. N did some tinkering this morning I get this message:

"My Trip & More has recognized a flight schedule change; therefore, unable to display your itinerary, please contact your Worldspan Travel Agent."

Anyone else see this? Any idea what it means?

I'm not sure how accurate it would be anyways- I'm showing 15 dfferent segments when I try it....

The article:

http://www.repubblica.it/supplementi/af/2006/04/24/primopiano/010timecs.htmlHere's my favorite part:
"Ai mille tormenti che affliggono l’Alitalia di Giancarlo Cimoli caropetrolio, concorrenza, tensioni sindacali, perdite di bilancio va aggiunto uno strano sito internet. Si chiama www.FlyerTalk.com...."
"To the thousand torments which afflict the Alitalia of Giancarlo Cimoli, expensive fuel, competition, labor problems, financial losses, is added a strange internet site... flyertalk.com."

It never occured to me that flyertalk is "strange"... some of us flyertalkers may well be strange, but flyertalk.com itself?
:D

I am curious if FT is going to have more Italian FTers soon. :D

First and foremost, Nicolo successfully reinstated 5 of my YYZ-LCA itins;4 Orbitz, 1 Cheap Tix. As part of the reinstatement, he was able to change the dates to my desired travel window and he was able to re-route YYZ-IAD-MXP and YYZ-ORD-MXP to YYZ-MXP nonstop, because cutting out a non-AZ carrier saved AZ money, as confirmed by Nicolo; and was a more convenient itin for me. Straightforward win-win.

Simply on that basis of less non-AZ carriers=more AZ cost savings, I inquired about substituting TLV for LCA, because MXP-TLV was on AZ metal (good for AZ) and roughly same distance (nuetral for both me and AZ) and was my intended destination (good for me). While Nicolo chuckled at the idea, he said that LCA was the only destination that could be flown. The whole mini-conversation took maybe 45 seconds. He didn't put me on hold to ask a supervisor, so I'm not sure how this would have gotten to Rome (unless the person who supposedly 'emailed' AZ about TLV was sent/forwarded to Rome was indeed different than me), nor was I persistent in trying to get him to reconsider once he said no. That was it.

Subsequent to that request, Nicolo proceeded to change the 5 tickets without incident and with good cheer. I was profusely thankful after each ticket was reinstated and re-booked. I emphasized my personal appreciation that there was finally someone empowered to both respond to and execute a RSOLUTION to the YYZ-LCA situation. I advised him about other FTers, and he was poised to accept calls for the 'other 450 tickets'.

I even had 3 other tickets that I was not ready to make date changes for yet, and he advised I could call back when ready.

He took PERSONAL responsibility to have me send my paper tickets to NYC to get either 'stickered' or 're-issued' via FedEx. He also volunteered to keep an eye on some of my LCA-MXP/MXP-LCA segments that only cleared Coach, not Business. He made that offer totally unprompted after I gladly accepted Coach seats on those legs.

Sooooooooooo, while I'm surprised and diappointed to hear about this abrupt change of policy regarding date changes and dropping LCA segmens, especially AFTER the policy has been instituted for some of us FTers, I am comfortable in defending myself that twas not me that triggered any backlash.

Further, Nicolo told me that all of the other YYZ-LCA calls he received were equally pleasant to deal with. He agreed that AZ and the TAs had mishandled the fare mistake during he first 24 hours, when there was opportunity for AZ to keep the high moral ground AND refund the tickets. He also agreed that AZ unilateral cancellation of tickets AND not advising us abou such cancellations, was a big mistake as well.

Anyhow, hope this full disclosure is helpful.

Am I the first to go leaving on May 30th?

Am I the first to go leaving on May 30th?So far, it looks like you are:

http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/DRTCA9

P.S. About 50 FTers have have added their data so far, we still have 450 to go :)!

Post removed to err of the side of caution...

Anyhow, hope this full disclosure is helpful.

Don't feel bad! This change is obviously a result of AZ policy confusion at a higher level. They just haven't found a way to respond to this problem yet. Some members of AZ's management team probably propose discouraging people from travelling, while others say, 'minimize our cost by allowing people to drop the LCA legs.' The TLV thing coincides with the change in direction, and when I was talking to Mr. N., it seemed more like he was using it to justify AZ's policy change to himself (as he seemed to be convinced that dropping legs would be the way to go). I'm pretty confident that their policy will change again, and I'll be happy to call Mr. N. back -- never had such a pleasant phone conversation with an airline employee before.

Maybe we should set up a virtual honor system about calling Nicolo (and others at AZ offices). Those with flight dates in the next 2-3 months go first, followed by those at the end of summer/early fall, followed by those in late fall/early winter, followed by those with flights after the New Year, etc...

Obviously there's no way to enforce this, but perhaps giving each "group" a couple of days to make their calls might make it easier for FTers to get what they want, and not to swamp the AZ offices.

My flights are in early August, so I'm waiting at least a few days. I hope some others follow this idea, at least in principle if not "to the letter". :)
Excellent idea! ^ My flights are in Nov. I'll wait until at least next week.
Apologies if this reply is out of sequence... haven't checked in since early this morning.
--
13F

Am I the first to go leaving on May 30th?

No. There is May 23rd departure and a May 25th one. The former is a lurker I email. The latter I don't know.

That stinks if someone is adversely affected by not being able to get out of the LCA leg.

With all due respect -- and to be fair to you, you're not the only person who is apparently thinking along those lines -- horsecrap.

Alitalia didn't sell us unfettered business class transportation to anywhere we wanted. It sold us tickets from Toronto, Canada to Larnaca, Cyprus.

There is absolutely no justification for whining about having to visit Cyprus. Zero, zip, nada.

Expressing this line of reasoning publicly -- or, even worse, to Alitalia -- is not only unproductive, it is likely counterproductive.

Don't want to see Cyprus? Then why did you buy a darn ticket with it as your endpoint in the first place? :confused:

In my view, Nicolo <last name removed> hasn't put a foot wrong in handling this matter (pardon the futbol parlance; I'm just giddy that my Gunners are headed to Paris next month). I hope that everyone who is seeking his assistance is treating him accordingly.

Excellent idea! ^ My flights are in Nov. I'll wait until at least next week.
Apologies if this reply is out of sequence... haven't checked in since early this morning.
--
13F

Wednesday and Thursday = May and June travel dates
Friday, Monday and Tuesday = July travel dates
Wednesday, Thursday and Friday = August
Then the rest?

Agreed, SAT Lawyer. I think we should all focus our efforts on getting them to honor the original fare rules which allowed for unilateral date changes, stopovers, and, I think, slight routing changes (via MXP/FCO). That's it. No changes to CAI, TLV, ATH, or anywhere else. I understand everyone's logic for trying to change the destination...really, I do. But it's not what we bought and it's only clouding things. We need to focus on getting the three things outlined above, along with anything else from the original fare rules that I'm forgetting.

Wednesday and Thursday = May and June travel dates
Friday, Monday and Tuesday = July travel dates
Wednesday, Thursday and Friday = August
Then the rest?

I'm wondering if it is even necessary... Nicolo told me that everyone's tickets would be set to the original dates and routings... Considering we can't make any changes at the moment, is it worth it to call?

That has been my view as well. When I spoke with Mr. X in Canada I was asked if I wanted to go to LCA - my response was I am happy to go but if it is cheaper for AZ to keep me in Italy, I am willing to do that as well. Basically whatever costs the least $$ and gives them the greatest PR I am happy to do. He was a bit suprised when I didn't want to change my ticket dates though - I let him know I only book what I can fly and if I can't fly it, then it is my problem, not Alitalia's.

He was respectful, charming and pleasant.

With all due respect -- and to be fair to you, you're not the only person who is apparently thinking along those lines -- horsecrap.

Alitalia didn't sell us unfettered business class transportation to anywhere we wanted. It sold us tickets from Toronto, Canada to Larnaca, Cyprus.

There is absolutely no justification for whining about having to visit Cyprus. Zero, zip, nada.

Expressing this line of reasoning publicly -- or, even worse, to Alitalia -- is not only unproductive, it is likely counterproductive.

Don't want to see Cyprus? Then why did you buy a darn ticket with it as your endpoint in the first place? :confused:

In my view, Nicolo <last name removed> hasn't put a foot wrong in handling this matter (pardon the futbol parlance; I'm just giddy that my Gunners are headed to Paris next month). I hope that everyone who is seeking his assistance is treating him accordingly.

The city is EWR (which is in my opinion the most convenient airport in the area to get to from Manhattan).


Based on what?timewise?pricewise? :confused:

that they wont do something extra for you?
r

In my case at least, this has absolutely nothing to do with getting something extra for nothing. I specifically agreed in writing to accede to the new DRTCA9 rules PROVIDED that Alitalia changed both my outbound and return dates and threw in a stopover without a reprice. IF Alitalia breaches this agreement, I will have substantial legal recourse in at least two countries, because I got the necessary folks in both the USA and Canada to ratify the agreement on the AZ side.

So basically, Alitalia's choices are to either stick to our written agreement or else sign over title of Amerigo Vespucci to me (after having installed AVOD at its expense) ;).

It is my understanding that the 509 lucky souls (probably less, given some booked multiple trips) who were ticketed will be having their original itineraries restored. Alitalia also appears willing to allow anybody who so desires a one-time change to dates and stopovers en route. That seems fair to me.

Anything beyond that (dropping Larnaca entirely; omitting an initial or terminal segment) is icing on the cake. We're all getting what we could have reasonably expected: the chance to fly business class on dates of our choosing to Cyprus -- perhaps with an Italian detour along the way -- for $33. If Alitalia's goodwill extends further, then consider yourself fortunate. Not entitled.

^

i wouldnt worry. Mr N told me that they would be honoring the reservations that they had already changed (with dropping the LCA, flying out of NYC, etc)

i think they r being ok here...
r

In my case at least, this has absolutely nothing to do with getting something extra for nothing. I specifically agreed in writing to accede to the new DRTCA9 rules PROVIDED that Alitalia changed both my outbound and return dates and threw in a stopover without a reprice. IF Alitalia breaches this agreement, I will have substantial legal recourse in at least two countries, because I got the necessary folks in both the USA and Canada to ratify the agreement on the AZ side.

So basically, Alitalia's choices are to either stick to our written agreement or else sign over title of Amerigo Vespucci to me (after having installed AVOD at its expense) ;).

I am not so convinced that we are going to get our original travel dates back. I can only speak for the case where my travel dates were altered. This case involved a Non-AZ ticket on the return from bos-yyz. I can't see them reinstated that as it would involve paying Air Canada for that segment and since the D fare bucket is zeroed out on the flight from mxp to yyz on that date...what then?

And the swim team issues....I don't think that asking for a confirmed segment of some type is unreasonable. I don't think that it screams 'entitlement' to say 'confirm the segment to/from LCA or cancel it'

The reported agreement to cancel segment or make other changes was in exchange for accepting the new fare rules. I don't think that it screams 'entitlement' to want the fare rules at the time of purchase to dictate things.

It is my understanding that the 509 lucky souls (probably less, given some booked multiple trips) who were ticketed will be having their original itineraries restored. Alitalia also appears willing to allow anybody who so desires a one-time change to dates and stopovers en route. That seems fair to me.

Anything beyond that (dropping Larnaca entirely; omitting an initial or terminal segment) is icing on the cake. We're all getting what we could have reasonably expected: the chance to fly business class on dates of our choosing to Cyprus -- perhaps with an Italian detour along the way -- for $33. If Alitalia's goodwill extends further, then consider yourself fortunate. Not entitled.

^

I agree 110%. I think a one-time change of dates and the addition/deletion of stopovers is generally adequate consideration for being bound by the new restrictive rules - at least to the point that Alitalia has covered its rear-end legally provided all ticketholders are provided with this option.

Now, should Alitalia back away from this compromise (which is the exact deal I put in writing), I claim first right amongst all FTers to the keys of Amerigo Vespucci, which features the new 767 Magnifica seats.

I agree 110%. I think a one-time change of dates and the addition/deletion of stopovers is generally adequate consideration for being bound by the new restrictive rules - at least to the point that Alitalia has covered its rear-end legally provided all ticketholders are provided with this option.

At least for those who hadn't already contacted this Nicolo....this offer is no longer on the table, correct??

With all due respect -- and to be fair to you, you're not the only person who is apparently thinking along those lines -- horsecrap.

Alitalia didn't sell us unfettered business class transportation to anywhere we wanted. It sold us tickets from Toronto, Canada to Larnaca, Cyprus.

There is absolutely no justification for whining about having to visit Cyprus. Zero, zip, nada.

Expressing this line of reasoning publicly -- or, even worse, to Alitalia -- is not only unproductive, it is likely counterproductive.

Don't want to see Cyprus? Then why did you buy a darn ticket with it as your endpoint in the first place? :confused:

In my view, Nicolo <last name removed> hasn't put a foot wrong in handling this matter (pardon the futbol parlance; I'm just giddy that my Gunners are headed to Paris next month). I hope that everyone who is seeking his assistance is treating him accordingly.

:confused:

Actually no, this is completely out of context. I was responding to the fact AZ was honoring the drop, then stopped. So I said Cyprus is hardly a bad "back up" plan.

I also can't imagine a scenario where it would be counterproductive to inquire about a drop that they were offering, but OK.

Anyway, that's hardly representative of how I, or the people who called this afternoon after the drop was shut off by Rome, feel. Most are ecstatic to go to Cyprus, but given the option, some people viewed it as a potential win-win for both parties... Which of course would be decidedly productive.

Did anyone ever post the e-mail address for Mr. Nicolo? I'd like to contact him about seat assignments and FF numbers--nothing major like TLV (eek) or even a date change. Don't really want to call right now--e-mail seems more appropriate.

Did anyone ever post the e-mail address for Mr. Nicolo? I'd like to contact him about seat assignments and FF numbers--nothing major like TLV (eek) or even a date change. Don't really want to call right now--e-mail seems more appropriate.

For that, just call AZ reservations.

With all due respect -- and to be fair to you, you're not the only person who is apparently thinking along those lines -- horsecrap.

Alitalia didn't sell us unfettered business class transportation to anywhere we wanted. It sold us tickets from Toronto, Canada to Larnaca, Cyprus.

There is absolutely no justification for whining about having to visit Cyprus. Zero, zip, nada.True, but there is a certain sick irony to passing through a preferable destination (FCO, MXP) on your way to a less desirable destination (LCA). From what I've read, Cyprus sounds great and is close enough to the Greek mainland to make for some easy side trips. That doesn't mean those of us who'd rather have an Italian trip can't be disappointed that AZ briefly offered the same before its all-too-familiar backpeddling maneuver.
Don't want to see Cyprus? Then why did you buy a darn ticket with it as your endpoint in the first place? :confused:Because that was what was offered. There's pretty sufficient evidence in this thread that people tried to add other destinations but had those plans scuttled by AZ. Realistically, can you argue that it's financially beneficial to AZ to force those who want to go to Italy to fly on to Cyprus? None of us will be sitting on the beach on Cyprus complaining that we couldn't go to Italy, but if we can go to Italy, why not ask for it? We're thrilled to death to be spending New Year's eve in Milan but it sucks that we have to be at the airport at 9:00 for the flight out. We would've liked more than an afternoon in Milan. But, in the end, we booked YYZ-LCA, so if that's what we get for $33 I think we'll be in pretty good shape.In my view, Nicolo <last name removed> hasn't put a foot wrong in handling this matter (pardon the futbol parlance; I'm just giddy that my Gunners are headed to Paris next month). I hope that everyone who is seeking his assistance is treating him accordingly.I haven't seen any ill words directed at Nicolo here. If anything, he's dealing with executive AZ thugs who are too thick-headed to see what's best for everyone.

For that, just call AZ reservations.

Don't have time for being put on hold or any sort of attitude. E-mail is so much nicer. :)

Don't have time for being put on hold or any sort of attitude. E-mail is so much nicer. :)

I've rarely had to wait more than 2-3 minutes to get to a live AZ rep when calling the US toll-free number and selecting Magnifica. (They are open 24-hours and now is not the best time to call but it's not the worst time either.) I frequently wait at least 10 times longer to get a DL rep and I'm a DL Platinum. :o

Don't have time for being put on hold or any sort of attitude. E-mail is so much nicer. :)

True :eek:

I really want AZ to restore the original fare rules and itineraries. Don't want to be unreasonable but that is the right thing to do. I agree there is still conflicting management directives here. It's now just Wed. morning in Italy and everyone's just getting back to the grind.

I think this will get resolved back to the original fare rules. I will politely continue my companies with CTA and BB.

I agree 110%. I think a one-time change of dates and the addition/deletion of stopovers is generally adequate consideration for being bound by the new restrictive rules - at least to the point that Alitalia has covered its rear-end legally provided all ticketholders are provided with this option.

Now, should Alitalia back away from this compromise (which is the exact deal I put in writing), I claim first right amongst all FTers to the keys of Amerigo Vespucci, which features the new 767 Magnifica seats.

i am glad you agree. how do you suggest we go about getting this one-time change. i haven't asked for anyting. but, i am ready to act. i don't want any changes other than a later return date.

i am willing to leave from toronto...i want to go to cyprus...i just want to come back later.

who do i contact?

and, if they say "no" and choose to not honor the original fare rules, should we begin our email campaign again in ernest???????????

thanks.

calm down. they are honoring with a ONE TIME change, get in touch with alitalia in NYC and they can take care of it. why are people getting so angry?

i am glad you agree. how do you suggest we go about getting this one-time change. i haven't asked for anyting. but, i am ready to act. i don't want any changes other than a later return date.

i am willing to leave from toronto...i want to go to cyprus...i just want to come back later.

who do i contact?

and, if they say "no" and choose to not honor the original fare rules, should we begin our email campaign again in ernest???????????

thanks.

calm down. they are honoring with a ONE TIME change, get in touch with alitalia in NYC and they can take care of it. why are people getting so angry?Is there a link to the NYC Customer Service number for AZ? I have the fax #, the claim #, the switchboard #, but no customer service number other than this Nicolo guy who's obviously swamped. Every time we call one of these numbers and ask for customer service we get transferred to Palermo.

calm down. they are honoring with a ONE TIME change, get in touch with alitalia in NYC and they can take care of it. why are people getting so angry?

I do not believe they are honoring any changes at this point. Now all the tickets are set as booked- original routing, original dates.

who told you that?! do you read the posts? as i wrote above, mr N confirmed with me at 5 pm that people will be allowed to make changes one time through him (DATES AND ADDING/SUBTRACTING STOPOVERS ONLY, NOT ROUTING OR ELIMINATING SEGMENTS). he also said they are reinstating all original itineraries as booked!

as for getting through to him, give it a day or two, the lines will clear up.

calm down, we r in good shape...
r



I do not believe they are honoring any changes at this point. Now all the tickets are set as booked- original routing, original dates.
1

now I am just utterly confused :confused: I am hearing conflicting things from you guys

now I am just utterly confused :confused: I am hearing conflicting things from you guys

It'll take a day or two for things to become more clear.

The way I take things right now:

1) if your itinerary is messed up and you want changes, then it might make sense to call up sooner than later; or
2) if your itinerary is messed up and you don't want changes, sit pretty for a few days and then follow up; or
3) if itinerary is not messed up and you want changes, then it might make sense to call up sooner than later; or
4) if itinerary is not messed up and you don't want changes, then sit pretty for a few days and then follow-up.

who told you that?! do you read the posts? as i wrote above, mr N confirmed with me at 5 pm that people will be allowed to make changes one time through him. he also said they are reinstating all original itineraries!

as for getting through to him, give it a day or two, the lines will clear up.

calm down, we r in good shape...
r


I keep very close track of the thread, and have been very active in this situation, thank you. When I spoke to Nicolo at 4pm eastern, I was told that Rome has decided that all tickets will be honored as booked, with original dates and routings. Changes made prior to this afternoon will be honored. I have posted this information several times, and a follow up e-mail from Nicolo at 4pm confirms this:

I have been informed that no
changes are allowed, passengers must travel on dates and routing shown
on ticket. ALL pax must fly from and to YYZ. Passengers that have
alternated their booking without the airlines authorization from the
original booking will encounter to pay the full price business class
ticket recalculated from point of origin.


I hope this is clarification enough for you. No worries....

well, when i spoke to him just before 5 pm, he told me date chages ok (one time) but routing changes would not be. i confirmed this with him several times, asked him abotu several scenarios, and im sure this is what he told me. maybe something changed between 4 and 5?

sorry for the confusion, gluck getting it sorted.

well, when i spoke to him just before 5 pm, he told me date chages ok (one time) but routing changes would not be. i confirmed this with him several times, asked him abotu several scenarios, and im sure this is what he told me. maybe something changed between 4 and 5?

sorry for the confusion, gluck getting it sorted.

Though my discussions/contacts indicate otherwise, I do hope we are still able to make the one time change.....

Has anyone been successful after 4pm today?

I will say that when I emailed and spoke to the relevant folks at Alitalia on Monday and Tuesday morning, I didn't frame the discussion as a "Can I please?" type of conversation - this is a business contract matter, not a gratuitous favor by the airline. Rather, it was more like "It's clear Alitalia is trying to change the rules, and here's what Alitalia can offer in order to get me to agree to that change." While remaining courteous and respectful at all times, at no time did I so much as insinuate --or allow it to be insinuated -- that Alitalia was doing any sort of super-generous deed based on goodwill.

I will say that when I emailed and spoke to the relevant folks at Alitalia on Monday and Tuesday morning, I didn't frame the discussion as a "Can I please?" type of conversation - this is a business contract matter, not a gratuitous favor by the airline. Rather, it was more like "It's clear Alitalia is trying to change the rules, and here's what Alitalia can offer in order to get me to agree to that change." While remaining courteous and respectful at all times, at no time did I so much as insinuate --or allow it to be insinuated -- that Alitalia was doing any sort of super-generous deed based on goodwill.

Well said, much agreed.

Just as a reminder, the TOS applies to Private Messages (PM) as well as public posts on the forums. No more requests for people to PM the same information that has already been clearly stated to be off limits, okay?

Thanks.Many of you will note that I have removed Nicolo's phone number from this thread. As a reminder, you may post *public* information about individuals -- things that are readily available on their company web site and press releases, for example. However it is not appropriate (nor allowable in the FT TOS) to post personal information such as direct numbers to specific employees of a company.

In addition to the privacy issue, it reflects very poorly on FlyerTalk to innundate a company with so many phone calls that it disrupts their ability to conduct regular business, and could cause issues for FlyerTalk on a business level.

I know this is an important issue to all of you, so I certainly don't want to discourage you from following up. But please do so in the prescribed manner, via their regular customer service channels.

Thank you,

Dave, a.k.a. dmfriedman
Moderator, Mileage Run

Based on what?timewise?pricewise? :confused:

Well, both. If you live downtown, you can take the PATH to Newark and then transfer there for the train to EWR. The Airtrain is $7.50, the PATH is $1.50

Total cost: $9.00 Total time, coming from WTC, 27 minutes.

If you live around Union Sq. and take the subway down, figure on 5-10 more mins and $2 more. If you add in the monorail to Term B, that's about 40-45 mins.

If you're uptown, just take the subway to the Airtrain at NYP, and you've spent $16 and the ride from NYP to Term B is 30-35 mins. + subway (or taxi if you are with a lot of people) time.

If you're on the Upper East Side, it's going to be a little more of a pain, as you have to make 1-2 transfers depending on where you're coming from, but if you live on the Upper East Side, you probably can afford to take a taxi to NYP, or even to EWR.

The only other NY area airport readily accesible by public transit (without having to do a gajillion transfers) is JFK. You have no option but to start out either at NYP to hop the LIRR, which including the Airtrain at JFK, and will set you back $11-13 + $2 for the subway (unless you're not too far from NYP) depending if it's peak or offpeak and take about 40 mins, not including the time it takes to get to NYP or you do it by taking the subway, where you're looking at $7, but at least an hour, if not longer, depending on how they're runnning and where you're coming from.

So on the whole, if you live downtown, EWR is by and large the best option in terms of the cost and the amount of time involved. From mid-town, I'd say that a little in the favor of JFK, if only for cost. If you're uptown, particularly on the Upper East Side, it's a bit of a tossup, but I just think EWR is a nicer airport.

Just as a reminder, the TOS applies to Private Messages (PM) as well as public posts on the forums. No more requests for people to PM the same information that has already been clearly stated to be off limits, okay?

Thanks.

This is just getting confusing. I *WAS* swimming, but now I am going TWICE...YYZ-EWR-FCO-LCA, but on the SAME day, YYZ-MXP-FCO...I really could use someone who KNOWS whats going on to address this. I don't have paper tickets, and no one has a CLUE whats going on...

Just to clarify, if you were granted changes by either the CA or US AZ contact(s) before the cutoff, and these include outbound routing/date changes, are these still valid, provided they were confirmed by one of the mgrs.? I did it all by e-mail, so I have a "paper" trail. Thanks.

- Andy

I really want AZ to restore the original fare rules and itineraries. Don't want to be unreasonable but that is the right thing to do. I agree there is still conflicting management directives here. It's now just Wed. morning in Italy and everyone's just getting back to the grind.

I think this will get resolved back to the original fare rules. I will politely continue my companies with CTA and BB.


Did anyone get any answer from either CTA or BBA? Me not.

Before I spoke with Nicolo about proposed date changes,I researched D class avails on KVS For the month of October, there was 'D7' from YYZ/BOS/JFK/EWR/IAD/ORD-MXP and MXP--YYZ/BOS/JFK/EWR/IAD/ORD almost every day of the month.

Hence, the ease for Nicolo to consolidate 5 different tins with different dates into 5 itins with exact same dates/routings.

Clearly,the D class avails are NOT the impediment for makin changes.

Clearly,the D class avails are NOT the impediment for makin changes.


For some months of travel, the D class availabilty is an impediment.

WOW 40 min without a post.

For some months of travel, the D class availabilty is an impediment.

This seems to be more a married segment limitation.. eg LCA-MXP shows D0, but LCA-MXP-EWR shows D3/D3 on many dates I'm seeing.

It is. If you look in the reverse on Nov 2. EWR-MXP-LCA it shows EWR-MXP as D0. Break it apart and it's D7

It is. If you look in the reverse on Nov 2. EWR-MXP-LCA it shows EWR-MXP as D0. Break it apart and it's D7

My apologies. I meant that D7 was wide open on when NOT including married segments to LCA.

Very likely to expect Y MXP-LCA, Nicolo was relieved when I was willing to accept Y without a fight/negotiation, etc. He knows that over the pond is critical; to/from LCA is where we can choose to be magnanimous!!

My apologies. I meant that D7 was wide open on when NOT including married segments to LCA.

Very likely to expect Y MXP-LCA, Nicolo was relieved when I was willing to accept Y without a fight/negotiation, etc. He knows that over the pond is critical; to/from LCA is where we can choose to be magnanimous!!

Did he at least waitlist you for D class on those flights in case it opens up?

Does anybody know what would be the last day of travel on the 'special fare'. I have another trip to Europe coming up, so I was wondering whether I can push the Alitalia adventure till 2007.

So what is the current status anyway, changes, no changes, SOL?
I was out of the country for a few days and missed the mass mailing/Nicolo and a few thousand posts.. :(

Did he at least waitlist you for D class on those flights in case it opens up?

While I was content to accept the Y seats, Nicolo PROACTIVELY VOLUNTEERED to keep an eye out if any J seats open up. Since he was able to get 5 separate itins on the SAME dates and routing,I wasn't too motivated to fight over the MXP-LCA COS. Also, if flying Y to/fromLCA saves AZ sme pocket change, then so be t!!

Does anybody know what would be the last day of travel on the 'special fare'. I have another trip to Europe coming up, so I was wondering whether I can push the Alitalia adventure till 2007.

Assuming that changes will be accepted, last date of travel finishing is April 1,2007,per Nicolo.

I hve 3 tins for Oct/Nv that want to push back into 07 to get a jump on Plat status for 07 and he was fine with that. He aid to call once I had firm07 dates.

Just got off the phone with Niccolo, who was a returning a message I left yesterday. A very pleasant and professional fellow.

He says his current mission is to restore all 509 itineraries to their original form, including resolving waitlist issues (which need to be approved by a higher-up in Rome, he says, but will be resolved). He confirms that date changes will be permitted on a one-time basis, but that he is not allowed to process any more changes until he finishes reinstating everything. That way, he says, it will not be possible for anyone's change to take away a seat from someone else's original booking. Niccolo estimates that this should take two weeks.

At almost three weeks into this, two more weeks does not sound so bad. And coming from someone who returns his messages, I am fine with it.

It does sounds like this guy deserves an FT award of some sort. I can't imagine being tasked with this, and still sounding human on the phone.

Overall, great news on the 1-time changes thing. Completely reasonable.

Just got off the phone with Niccolo, who was a returning a message I left yesterday. A very pleasant and professional fellow.

He says his current mission is to restore all 509 itineraries to their original form, including resolving waitlist issues (which need to be approved by a higher-up in Rome, he says, but will be resolved). He confirms that date changes will be permitted on a one-time basis, but that he is not allowed to process any more changes until he finishes reinstating everything. That way, he says, it will not be possible for anyone's change to take away a seat from someone else's original booking. Niccolo estimates that this should take two weeks.

At almost three weeks into this, two more weeks does not sound so bad. And coming from someone who returns his messages, I am fine with it.

Did he mention if they will also be allowing stopovers with that one-time date change?

Just got off the phone with Niccolo, who was a returning a message I left yesterday. A very pleasant and professional fellow.


Ditto! He was very professional and friendly. ^

Did he mention if they will also be allowing stopovers with that one-time date change?

Stopovers didn't enter our conversation, because I am simply interested in extending my stay in Cyprus.

Does anybody know what would be the last day of travel on the 'special fare'. I have another trip to Europe coming up, so I was wondering whether I can push the Alitalia adventure till 2007.


If I remember right the orbitz system let me book out 330 days. I have two bookings in 2007 in jan and feb.

:confused:
ok, sorry if I have missed this, but who do I contact to fix my bookings? The Alitalia phone support are clueless. How am I supposed to get a hold of this guy??

Thanks :-:

Could I throw this question out to this group? Possibly someone can add to what cfischer had to say.
IF we are given the chance to eliminate the CY segments I am only interested in skyteam EQM. Knowing this will help me determine if I do fly on to Cyprus or not.
Thanks for any help you can give.
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546514&page=2&pp=15

...so we can see how the trip unfolded? Does anyone have a departure in the next few weeks?? Im off June 2nd and would love an update as to how things went during and after your trip. So anyone out there going to LCA in May?? Thanx..Homer.

Could I throw this question out to this group? Possibly someone can add to what cfischer had to say.
IF we are given the chance to eliminate the CY segments I am only interested in skyteam EQM. Knowing this will help me determine if I do fly on to Cyprus or not.
Thanks for any help you can give.
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546514&page=2&pp=15

Looking at cfischer's comments and your statement here (if you're asking whether it is possible to get skyteam EQM in any skyteam airline), I can say that with respect to CO, you won't be able to accrue CO EQMs for the CY flights. CY is not a CO partner and only AZ and AZ express-operated flights can get CO miles. I think you can credit CY miles into AZ's frequent flyer program. Don't know off the top of my head whether you'll be able to get mileage credit in other US Skyteam partners' programs, but I'm sure someone else does.

Don't know off the top of my head whether you'll be able to get mileage credit in other US Skyteam partners' programs, but I'm sure someone else does.Codeshare ST member-marketed flights (e.g AZ/CY), operated by a non-ST member (e.g. CY) can only be credited to the FFP of that ST marketing airline (e.g. AZ).

Looking at cfischer's comments and your statement here (if you're asking whether it is possible to get skyteam EQM in any skyteam airline), I can say that with respect to CO, you won't be able to accrue CO EQMs for the CY flights. CY is not a CO partner and only AZ and AZ express-operated flights can get CO miles. I think you can credit CY miles into AZ's frequent flyer program. Don't know off the top of my head whether you'll be able to get mileage credit in other US Skyteam partners' programs, but I'm sure someone else does.

Codeshare ST member-marketed flights (e.g AZ/CY), operated by a non-ST member (e.g. CY) can only be credited to the FFP of that ST marketing airline (e.g. AZ).


Thanks The reason I asked is that CO website says Alitalia ticket numbers and all of my flights numbers begin with AZ; "AZ XXXX" I understand now

Post removed to err of the side of caution...

Hi
I just got call back from Nicolo at AZ.
Here is the latest.
He says ALL tickets that were changed by him without Ok from Rome office are being changed BACK to the original reservation. All original reservation details are being reinstated - including those which had been changed by AZ this week. No tix will be permitted he says that vary from the ORIGINAL booking itinerary...although, one date change is likely to be OK'd in the future.

It's barely past noon and I already feel sick from today's rollercoaster with AZ.

I need a nap. :p

Hi
I just got call back from Nicolo at AZ.
Here is the latest.
He says ALL tickets that were changed by him without Ok from Rome office are being changed BACK to the original reservation. All original reservation details are being reinstated - including those which had been changed by AZ this week. No tix will be permitted he says that vary from the ORIGINAL booking itinerary...although, one date change is likely to be OK'd in the future.

Yikes...this is quite a development for those who actually spoke to him yesterday...these changes back are going to make some folks hopping mad! Luckily :confused: I couldn't call him yesterday.

Codeshare ST member-marketed flights (e.g AZ/CY), operated by a non-ST member (e.g. CY) can only be credited to the FFP of that ST marketing airline (e.g. AZ).

I'm not sure about this. I have received DL Skymiles credit for a number of Aeromexico-coded flights that were operated by Mexicana and even the fairly dubious Aeromar. In many of these cases, the BP didn't even list the Aeromexico flight number. From the DL website:

Alitalia:
No mileage credit for fares booked in E, F, G, P, R, S, U, or Z class

AeroMexico:
No mileage credit for fares booked in G, I, O, P, C, E, F, U, or Z class

Continental Airlines:
Mileage credit only applies to flights operated by Continental, ExpressJet, and Continental Micronesia. No mileage credit applies for fares booked in E, M, G, D, or P class.

Hi
I just got call back from Nicolo at AZ.
Here is the latest.
He says ALL tickets that were changed by him without Ok from Rome office are being changed BACK to the original reservation. All original reservation details are being reinstated - including those which had been changed by AZ this week. No tix will be permitted he says that vary from the ORIGINAL booking itinerary...although, one date change is likely to be OK'd in the future.

AZ seems to really like wasting money.

Codeshare ST member-marketed flights (e.g AZ/CY), operated by a non-ST member (e.g. CY) can only be credited to the FFP of that ST marketing airline (e.g. AZ).

Apparently some airlines' systems don't work so well in ejecting some ST member-marketed flights operated by a non-ST member. Stories about such flights being credited to DL's program are not popular in the DL forum because it raises the spectre of catching DL's eyes and bringing about a shut-down of the benefits of IT limitation. (I am of the opinion that DL isn't wholly unaware of such an issue and just hasn't yet bothered itself with investing the necessary resources to close such a gap.)

Just got off the phone with Niccolo, who was a returning a message I left yesterday. A very pleasant and professional fellow.

He says his current mission is to restore all 509 itineraries to their original form, including resolving waitlist issues (which need to be approved by a higher-up in Rome, he says, but will be resolved). He confirms that date changes will be permitted on a one-time basis, but that he is not allowed to process any more changes until he finishes reinstating everything. That way, he says, it will not be possible for anyone's change to take away a seat from someone else's original booking. Niccolo estimates that this should take two weeks.

At almost three weeks into this, two more weeks does not sound so bad. And coming from someone who returns his messages, I am fine with it.

So now the word is to NOT try to call him...even if one has a trip in June? Another two weeks makes a BIG difference if one is traveling in June! :eek: Especially when trying to arrange travel from home to YYZ....which is not cheap to start with .... :(

Hi
I just got call back from Nicolo at AZ.
Here is the latest.
He says ALL tickets that were changed by him without Ok from Rome office are being changed BACK to the original reservation. All original reservation details are being reinstated - including those which had been changed by AZ this week. No tix will be permitted he says that vary from the ORIGINAL booking itinerary...although, one date change is likely to be OK'd in the future.

My ticket was sent to his attention yesterday afternoon, and will reach him by tomorrow - it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out...

Hi
I just got call back from Nicolo at AZ.
Here is the latest.
He says ALL tickets that were changed by him without Ok from Rome office are being changed BACK to the original reservation. All original reservation details are being reinstated - including those which had been changed by AZ this week. No tix will be permitted he says that vary from the ORIGINAL booking itinerary...although, one date change is likely to be OK'd in the future.

I'd accept that - one date change only per ticket, and I'm happy. :)

I'm not sure about this. I have received DL Skymiles credit for a number of Aeromexico-coded flights that were operated by Mexicana and even the fairly dubious Aeromar. In many of these cases, the BP didn't even list the Aeromexico flight number. From the DL website:

Alitalia:
No mileage credit for fares booked in E, F, G, P, R, S, U, or Z class

AeroMexico:
No mileage credit for fares booked in G, I, O, P, C, E, F, U, or Z class

Continental Airlines:
Mileage credit only applies to flights operated by Continental, ExpressJet, and Continental Micronesia. No mileage credit applies for fares booked in E, M, G, D, or P class.

Unintentional benefit of DL's resource limitations. ;)

I'm not sure about this. I have received DL Skymiles credit for a number of Aeromexico-coded flights that were operated by Mexicana and even the fairly dubious Aeromar.Well, I guess one could always hope that glicthes in Aeromexico's systems would somehow apply to CY as well... :)

Is Niccolo the man's last name? or first?

Is Niccolo the man's last name? or first?

First name.

Well, I guess one could always hope that glicthes in Aeromexico's systems would somehow apply to CY as well... :)

I don't think these are Aeromexico glitches. There certainly aren't glitches in Aeromar's computer systems, because Aeromar doesn't have computer systems.

None of the BPs I speak of have my DL Skymiles number on them, the entire trips were on non-AM metal, and I never checked in with AM. In all cases, mileage credit was obtained solely by sending in BPs (and tickets) after the trip.

I believe that DL specifically excludes CO flights on non-CO metal (and the same is true for some other airlines), but this restriction doesn't apply to AM, AZ, and others. Can you point out some DL publication to back up your statements? I've searched, and I didn't find any restrictions for AZ on DL's website.

I believe that DL specifically excludes CO flights on non-CO metal (and the same is true for some other airlines), but this restriction doesn't apply to AM, AZ, and others. Can you point out some DL publication to back up your statements? I've searched, and I didn't find any restrictions for AZ on DL's website.DL's website states that you can "[earn] miles anytime you fly one of [DL's] airline partners." (https://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_to_get_miles/earning_miles_partners/airline_partners/index.jsp)

CY is not a DL partner. Therefore, by definition, you won't be flying "one of [DL's] airline partners".

First name. Does anyone know his Last name? (presumably if it is okay to publish his first name, then last should be okay??)

Does anyone know his Last name? (presumably if it is okay to publish his first name, then last should be okay??)

Mr. Nicolo <last name removed>
Tariffs Analyst, Alitalia Airlines
350 Fifth Avenue
Suite 3700
New York, NY 10118

My understanding is that it is a no-no to publish Nicolo's <last name removed> e-mail. I hope that it is okay to share his mailing address, which may point other FlyerTalkers in the right direction. Since Alitalia has generally been so unhelpful, it is extremely important to deal with the handful of persons who actually are providing welcome assistance.

Interesting that he analyzes tarifs for a job!
Not very good analysis went on 2 weeks ago of the $33 fare being offered for almost 20 hours!