[KVS Availability Tool 2.1.0/Platinum - YTO-AZ-LCA/DRTCA9/3900 CAD] (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2804833#post2804833)
BKCODE: D -
FLIGHTS: NO FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
TICKET RESTRICTIONS: TICKETS MAY BE ISSUED:
BY PTA AND SATISFIES TICKETING REQUIREMENTS
NOTE: EXTENSION OF TICKET VALIDITY FOR MEDICAL REASONS IS
NOT PERMITTED UNDER GUIDELINES STATED IN RULE 65/D/. ----
IN E-TICKET ELIGIBLE MARKETS A SERVICE CHARGE WILL BE
ASSESSED FOR THE ISSUANCE OF PAPER TICKETS.
MINIMUM:
RESERVATION/TICKETING: TKT MUST BE PURCHASED WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER RES
IS MADE. SGMTS USING THIS RULE MUST BE CONFIRMED.
MAXIMUM:
BLACKOUTS: NO BLACKOUT RESTRICTIONS APPLY.
MISC: NOTE - RESERVATIONS FOR THE ENTIRE JOURNEY
MUST BE CONFIRMED IN ONE TRANSACTION AT ANY TIME
PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT OF TRAVEL. NOTE - TICKETS MUST
SHOW BY THE USE OF AN INSERT OR STICKER THAT TRAVEL
IS AT A SPECIAL FARE AND SUBJECT TO SPECIAL
CONDITIONS. THIS FARE MAY NOT BE USED TO CALCULATE A
DIFFERENTIAL.
PENALTIES: CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS
NON-REFUNDABLE. CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES NOT
PERMITTED IN CASE OF REISSUE /REVALIDATION.
SEASONS: NO SEASON RESTRICTIONS APPLY.


MISC: NOTE - RESERVATIONS FOR THE ENTIRE JOURNEY
MUST BE CONFIRMED IN ONE TRANSACTION AT ANY TIME
PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT OF TRAVEL.

We all know this didnt happen.. Still waitlisted on segments

NOTE - TICKETS MUST SHOW BY THE USE OF AN INSERT
OR STICKER THAT TRAVEL IS AT A SPECIAL FARE AND
SUBJECT TO SPECIAL CONDITIONS. THIS FARE MAY NOT
BE USED TO CALCULATE A DIFFERENTIAL.

Whats this special sticket about?? And what are the "Special Conditions"?

To be honest, I'm more surprised that CT and Orbitz have tried to divorce themselves from this situation. I'd think they would have more chance for recourse with an airline than individual buyers would--and isn't that why we paid the fees to them, to be our advocate when a problem crops up??

I think it's time to focus on Orbitz, more than AZ. The airline has made it clear that they're going to do what they want, even with individual travellers complaining. How many pax complain to them every day?? (Answer: Considering it's AZ, probably hundreds!) I'm sure it's of no effect. But Orbitz and CT, being North American companies with bit PR departments, must be a little worried about this, the more crap AZ pulls. I'm guessing they don't know what to do (since this obviously doesn't happen often), so they're saying to call AZ... while AZ says to call Orbitz, who has been told not to do anything!

Agreed, there is someone in the upper levels that made these decisions. All of the people below him/her have been messing everything up (not that his decision was entirely right).

I sent a letter to Brian Hoyt. It's not the best letter, but it has the general idea. Here it is:

Dear Mr. Hoyt,

A few weeks back, you were widely quoted by several media outlets as saying :

"We're in a global world of e-commerce where we're working on virtual platforms, and there have been infrequent occasions when incorrect pricing appears online. When red flags were set off, we pulled the rate, we got in contact with the airline in question, we had a conversation with them about what had occurred. What the airline agreed to do was honour all of the fares that had been ticketed through Orbitz.com. [...] Alitalia has really done the stand-up thing here."

As you probably know, Alitalia has not fully 'done the stand-up thing here'. On April 6th, Alitalia retroactively made changes to the fare rules for fare basis DRTCA9 and then removed the original fare rules so neither travel agents nor anyone else could see the new fare rules.

The new fare rules are far more restrictive: Stopovers are no longer allowed, changes have been prohibited, and the fare is now considered non-refundable. To make matters worse, AZ has made unilateral changes to most people's bookings, imposing new routings and different dates of travel.

Alitalia's conduct is nothing short of fraudulent. The change in fare rules is a breech of their contract of carriage, and the fact that they went to so much trouble to get rid of the original fare rules is not only suspicious, but illegal.

Attempts to resolve these problems are met with complete confusion and misinformation. Calls to Orbitz and Cheaptickets are met with the line 'only the airline can make changes, and any changes will incur a repricing at full fare'. When customers attempt to contact AZ as per the instructions of Orbitz and CT phone agents, Alitalia agents say that they cannot help with the reservation, as only the Travel Agents (Orbitz and CT) are able to.

Further, many people, including myself, have reported that AZ agents have simply hung up on customers, or will not answer phone lines. Many e-mails to Alitalia have gone unanswered. Most customers have not even been contacted regarding the status of their travel (including me- I only know about everything because I keep close track of my travel plans).

Clearly, this is not the best handling of the situation by either side. Most customers simply want a clear point of communication- be it from Orbitz, Cheap Tickets, or Alitalia. We simply want one source of accurate information, and a phone number or e-mail address dedicated specifically to issues associated with these tickets.

You may or may not follow the large amount of discussion regarding these tickets on Flyertalk.com. If not, I urge you to take a look at:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544622&page=333&pp=15

I think you'll find that most of your customers simply want better communication and to have their tickets honored in their original form.

We appreciate all the work Orbitz and Cheap Tickets have done to partially secure our tickets, but we would like to see these companies (and parent Cendant) step up and fully follow through.

I would appreciate a reply to this e-mail. Like I said, the communication thus far has been deplorable, so I ask that you take the time to participate in good customer service.

Thank you,
Peatisback

NOTE - TICKETS MUST SHOW BY THE USE OF AN INSERT
OR STICKER THAT TRAVEL IS AT A SPECIAL FARE AND
SUBJECT TO SPECIAL CONDITIONS. THIS FARE MAY NOT
BE USED TO CALCULATE A DIFFERENTIAL.

Whats this special sticket about?? And what are the "Special Conditions"?That's a standard notation, it just means that this is a discounted (i.e. not a $7901 CAD full-J) fare. Stickers are no longer used, so the restrictions are listed in the "endorsements" field on the ticket.

Nine minutes till the 9PM mass email campaign....:)

Daily routine of calling Orbitz seemed to pay off tonight by sheer luck.
Found someone on the International desk who reinstated the missing segment on my ticket and updated the itin almost instantaneously.
No more swim team for me, interestingly, the availability on my flight that day (AZ7707 op by Cyprus) shows zero for AZ (before and after).
fingers crossed

Is there a policy of mentioning flyertalk in emails or not?

Whats this special sticket about?? And what are the "Special Conditions"?

That's to let the check-in agents know that they should downgrade us to Y :p

I emailed

Is there a policy of mentioning flyertalk in emails or not?

I don't think it should be a problem. Let the e-mails fly.

E-MAIL E-MAIL EMAIL!!!

and don't forget to

FAX FAX FAX!!!!

This should be helpful:

cirelli.antonio@alitalia.it
corporatedesk@alitalia.it
ufficiostampa.assemblea@alitalia.it.
societario@alitalia.it
onlinebookingnl@alitalia.it
Alitaliabe@sept.fr customer relations
cantagallo.simone@alitalia.it <~ head of media relations
castiglioni.Marcello@alitalia.it director of toronto tourism
demarin.rita@alitalia.it contact in some brochure
Marcello@alitalia.it board of directors toronto tourism
palpacelli.manuele@alitalia.it press contact
vasta.patrizia@alitalia.it press contact
evangelisti.luca@alitalia.it press contact
cambria.paola@alitalia.it press relations director
demarin.rita@alitalia.it
matassa.giovanni@ alitalia.it
castelli.cristiano@alitalia.it
d.artibale.mario@alitalia.it
lombardi.emanuela@alitalia.it

some are good, some many be random staff.

since orbitz is owned by cendant, here's cendant's PR Staff.
http://www.cendant.com/media/contacts.html
bhoyt@orbitz.com
elliot.bloom@cendant.com
jdiefendorf@orbitz.com
Jill.Brenner@cendant.com

Travelocity Media Contacts
http://svc.travelocity.com/about/pr...TACT_US,00.html
Amanda@vollmerpr.com
emily.field@shinecom.com
peter@textwrite.org
oliveira@thornleyfallis.com

Cheap Tickets Media Contact
marita.hudson@cheaptickets.com

Other Outlets
travel@usatoday.com.
wolff@cnn.com
http://www.towd.com/search.php?country=Italy Italy Tourist Board emails
horror@alitaliasucks.com

And for those of us who would rather copy/paste or don't have easy access to a fax machine:

http://www.freefax.com/ff_snd.html

To recap:

AZ Fax numbers:
General Fax: (212) 903-3350
Customer Service: (212) 903-3568
Rate Desk: (212) 903-3588

"Include description of inquiry, itineraries, dates, clear copies of boarding passes/tickets, etc..."

Orbitz fax number:
President - Michael D. Sands
VP Corporate Communications - Carol Jouzaitis
Fax: 312-894-5001

Cendant fax number:
Chairman/CEO - Henry R. Silverman
President (dir of Travel Distribution Services) - Ron Nelson
Fax: 212-413-1918

Alitalia - Linee Aeree Italiane
Viale Alessandro Marchetti, 111
00148 Rome, Italy
Phone: +06-6562-21
Fax: +06-6562-4733

Post #4 on the first page of this thread has an extensive list of whom to contact, form letters and more.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5573574&postcount=4

Send, send, send. :)

Here's some more stuff GUWonder. Care to do the honors on page 1 :)
BTW THANKS! for putting your time into page 1 summary. that sucker is huge.
think evan.perez@wsj.com may want a followup article in WSJ?


Alitalia Accidentally Offers
Airfare to Cyprus for $33.

By EVAN PEREZ
April 7, 2006 12:08 a.m.

For a few hours on Wednesday, the hottest ticket in travel was to Larnaca, Cyprus.

Italian carrier Alitalia accidentally was offering a $33 business-class airfare from Toronto via Italy to the picturesque, but perhaps off-the-beaten-path, resort town of 72,000. The regular business fare on that route is $2,588.

The fare was posted in the morning hours Wednesday in Canadian dollars. Apparently a worker forgot to enter in the two zeros, an Alitalia spokeswoman said.

Word of the fare spread quickly via the Internet travel site Flyertalk.com and passed on by travel bloggers, prompting hundreds of travelers to jump on the deal. Then travel Web sites such as Orbitz.com caught on and alerted company officials.

Alitalia said it initially suspended all the bookings while it tried to determine how much damage had been done. A spokeswoman declined to say how many bookings were made.

But Alitalia decided it would honor 509 of the bookings that were purchased and ticketed before it suspended reservations. Those who booked reservations but whose tickets hadn't yet been issued are out of luck. "It was a human mistake," Alitalia's spokeswoman said. "We hope that people will appreciate the effort we are making."

At $2,588, the financially struggling airline would have received about $1.32 million in revenue for the 509 tickets, compared with the $16,797 it would receive at the $33 fare. The airline declined to comment on those figures.

Vinod Ponnusamy, of Seattle, was one of those who quickly booked tickets to Larnaca for him and his girlfriend in September, never mind that he had no clue what they would do there. "It's definitely not a place I had ever considered going," he said. Mr. Ponnusamy is expecting delivery of his tickets today and hasn't received a cancellation notice.

After doing some research and finding out about the 1974 Turkish invasion of part of Cyprus, he noted, "I didn't realize all the Greek-Turkish division going on there. But it should be fun."

Brian Hoyt, a spokesman for Orbitz.com, which operates the Cheaptickets site, said the company was refunding ticketing fees to customers who had booked and whose reservations were canceled.

Such pricing mistakes aren't unheard of, though travel companies respond to the errors in a variety of ways. Last year now-defunct carrier Independence Air sold dozens of tickets accidentally for $0, and Sabre Holdings Corp.'s Travelocity mistakenly sold tickets to Fiji for $51.

Write to Evan Perez at evan.perez@wsj.com

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/04/cyprus.html
author: mailto:todayinthesky@usatoday.com

http://www.pulse24.com/Business/Top_Story/20060407-001/page.asp

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/National/2006/04/07/1523748-sun.html
author: no idea but here's the editor feedback@lfpress.com <feedback@lfpress.com>

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=2ca121c0-d17e-4fdb-9dac-e81042bdce86
http://www.cbc.ca/pei/story/pe-cyprus-tickets-20060412.html
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2006/04/06/1523330-cp.html
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=25314&cat_id=1
http://english.people.com.cn/200604/09/eng20060409_256979.html

more stories that confirm the tickets. wow. looks like Alitalia's execs have gotten into a PR nightmare or are scrambling for more email filtering.

Just wanted to report that my LCA-MXP leg has cleared. You can take me off from the LCA-MXP swim team.

Sorry guys, I have to ditch the swim team again. I called AZ today and was advised that my LCA-MXP is confirmed again (in 'D' class, as originally booked).
I then called Orbitz, and they also confirmed that my LCA-MXP flight was back on. Strange enough, that flight still doesn't show up on Orbitz's "My Trips."

Post #4 on the first page of this thread has an extensive list of whom to contact, form letters and more.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5573574&postcount=4

Send, send, send. :)

Thanks for the update! Sorry I didn't see it and posted the random info. Here is a revised letter I just wrote to send to all of the people listed. Send away!

To Whom It May Concern:,

On April 5th, 2006, tickets were sold for travel between Toronto, Canada (YYZ) and Larnaca, Cyprus (LCA) on Alitalia. Since that time, Alitalia has acted in a completely inappropriate manner. Customer service has been deplorable, there has been a complete lack of communication from Alitalia, Alitalia has breeched contracts and engaged in dubious activity.

PR representative Briian Hoyt of Orbitz was quoted as saying “What the airline agreed to do was honour all of the fares that had been ticketed through Orbitz.com. [...] Alitalia has really done the stand-up thing here." Alitalia has done no such “stand-up thing.”

Though many Alitalia customers have paper tickets for travel, Alitalia has unilaterally made changes to customers’ reservations. Dates of travel were changed, routings were changed, and stopovers were eliminated. This poses major problems for people who have made travel plans in association with their air travel. Based on confirmed, ticketed travel, many people have made non-refundable hotel reservations, additional air reservations, have scheduled time off from work, and other associated plans.

On April 6th, Alitalia retroactively changed the fare rules for fare basis DRTCA9 and then removed the original fare rules from the GDS so neither travel agents nor anyone else could see the old fare rules The new fare rules are far more restrictive: Stopovers are no longer allowed, changes have been prohibited, and the fare is now considered non-refundable. To make matters worse, AZ has made unilateral changes to most people's bookings, imposing new routings and different dates of travel.

Alitalia's conduct is nothing short of fraudulent. The change in fare rules is a breech of their contract of carriage, and the fact that they went to so much trouble to get rid of the original fare rules is not only suspicious, but illegal.

Attempts to resolve these problems are met with complete confusion and misinformation. Calls to Orbitz and Cheaptickets are met with the line 'only the airline can make changes, and any changes will incur a repricing at full fare'. When customers attempt to contact AZ as per the instructions of Orbitz and CT phone agents, Alitalia agents say that they cannot help with the reservation, as only the Travel Agents (Orbitz and CT) are able to. Alitalia phone agents then hang up on customers. Most of the time, though, phone lines are not answered, and fax, phone, and e-mail messages receive no response.

Most customers have not even been contacted regarding the status of their travel (including me- I only know about everything because I keep close track of my travel plans).

Clearly, this is terrible handling of the situation at hand.. Most customers simply want a clear point of communication- be it from Orbitz, Cheap Tickets, or Alitalia. We simply want one source of accurate information, and a phone number or e-mail address dedicated specifically to issues associated with these tickets.

You may or may not follow the large amount of discussion regarding these tickets on Flyertalk.com. If not, I urge you to take a look at:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544622&page=333&pp=15

It is clear that most customers simply want better communication and to have their tickets honored in their original form.

I implore Alitalia to reinstate the original fare rules associated with these tickets, reinstate all original routings and travel dates, and provide better customer service regarding this matter.

Thank you,

Peatisback

Feel free to offer feedback, and use as needed!

Send, Send, Send till ya can't Send no more!

Here are all the e-mail addresses together, just copy and paste:

cirelli.antonio@alitalia.it, corporatedesk@alitalia.it, ufficiostampa.assemblea@alitalia.it, societario@alitalia.it, Alitaliabe@sept.fr, cantagallo.simone@alitalia.it, demarin.rita@alitalia.it, Marcello@alitalia.it, palpacelli.manuele@alitalia.it, vasta.patrizia@alitalia.it, evangelisti.luca@alitalia.it, cambria.paola@alitalia.it, matassa.giovanni@alitalia.it, castelli.cristiano@alitalia.it, d.artibale.mario@alitalia.it, lombardi.emanuela@alitalia.it, elliot.bloom@cendant.com, jdiefendorf@orbitz.com, Jill.Brenner@cendant.com, Amanda@vollmerpr.com, emily.field@shinecom.com, peter@textwrite.org, oliveira@thornleyfallis.com, marita.hudson@cheaptickets.com, marketplace@cbc.ca, travel@globeandmail.com, wolff@cnn.com, horror@alitaliasucks.com

About 6 of those addresses bounced back (including the CNN contact)

The free fax webpage posted earlier isn't working right now, I'm looking for an alternative.

To be honest, I'm more surprised that CT and Orbitz have tried to divorce themselves from this situation.

[...]

But Orbitz and CT, being North American companies with bit PR departments, must be a little worried about this, the more crap AZ pulls.
Keep in mind that a number of us booked this through Travelocity and are in the same situation. I haven't heard anything from TCY since AZ changed my returns by a month and haven't had time to call them. Orbitz/CT may be jerking people around but they at least appear to acknowledge the problem. I haven't gotten anyone on the front lines at TCY to do that much. Half the time there's a huge communication barrier because the agent in India can't speak English and has no business taking telephone support calls from the United States. I have yet to be told that any of these agents are familiar with the situation, which I'm sure they are.

Here are all the e-mail addresses together, just copy and paste:

About 6 of those addresses bounced back (including the CNN contact) ... try wolf@cnn.com. Didn't bounceback for me!



Thanks to all for the hard work on this!

Here's some more stuff GUWonder. Care to do the honors on page 1 :)
BTW THANKS! for putting your time into page 1 summary. that sucker is huge.
think evan.perez@wsj.com may want a followup article in WSJ?


:D I was just going to suggest that. I doubt the WSJ would do a followup on this, but doesn't hurt to try. I'm going to try my hand at calling and emailing orbitz over the next few days, and then trying AZ (shudder) afterwards.

:D I was just going to suggest that. I doubt the WSJ would do a followup on this, but doesn't hurt to try. I'm going to try my hand at calling and emailing orbitz over the next few days, and then trying AZ (shudder) afterwards.

A story on how online communities organize? :D

Keep in mind that a number of us booked this through Travelocity and are in the same situation. I haven't heard anything from TCY since AZ changed my returns by a month and haven't had time to call them. Orbitz/CT may be jerking people around but they at least appear to acknowledge the problem. I haven't gotten anyone on the front lines at TCY to do that much. Half the time there's a huge communication barrier because the agent in India can't speak English and has no business taking telephone support calls from the United States. I have yet to be told that any of these agents are familiar with the situation, which I'm sure they are.

Thanks for the reminder. I should try my hand with Travelocity since I have more ticketed itineraries with them than with the Orbitz and CheapTickets. :o

here ya go. added more for what amounts to more fireworks i guess.

cirelli.antonio@alitalia.it, corporatedesk@alitalia.it, ufficiostampa.assemblea@alitalia.it, societario@alitalia.it, Alitaliabe@sept.fr, cantagallo.simone@alitalia.it, demarin.rita@alitalia.it, Marcello@alitalia.it, palpacelli.manuele@alitalia.it, vasta.patrizia@alitalia.it, evangelisti.luca@alitalia.it, cambria.paola@alitalia.it, matassa.giovanni@alitalia.it, castelli.cristiano@alitalia.it, d.artibale.mario@alitalia.it, lombardi.emanuela@alitalia.it, elliot.bloom@cendant.com, jdiefendorf@orbitz.com, Jill.Brenner@cendant.com, Amanda@vollmerpr.com, emily.field@shinecom.com, peter@textwrite.org, oliveira@thornleyfallis.com, marita.hudson@cheaptickets.com, marketplace@cbc.ca, travel@globeandmail.com, wolf@cnn.com, horror@alitaliasucks.com, evan.perez@wsj.com, todayinthesky@usatoday.com, feedback@lfpress.com, bhoyt@orbitz.com, marketplace@cbc.ca , travel@thestar.ca, travel@globeandmail.com, palermo.jacqueline@alitalia.it,
Letters@BudgetTravelOnline.com,
info@aviationreg.ie, inquiry@bbbmwo.ca, enitour@ihug.com.au, enit.canada@on.aibn.com, enitny@italiantourism.com, airconsumer@dot.gov

and to be sneaky here are proxies to mask ip. pick one and enter in a url to any of the below links:
http://webpages.charter.net/ipitydafool718/

then goto these fax via email sites and cant be traced
http://www.ourfax.com/webfax/ (webfax doesn't work?)
http://www.zipfax.com/free/ middle of page - doesn't work?
http://www.tpc.int/sendfax.html
http://www.denotos.com/index.php3

and here are the email sites
http://www.mytrashmail.com/anonymous_email.aspx
http://www.advicebox.com/
http://www.egrumble.com/ (anonymous email tab)

fax by email
http://www.tpc.int/faxbyemail.html
Email to Fax: worlds first free easy to use, email to fax service, which enables every email address in the world to send faxes for FREE from their email address. All the user does is type the faxnumber@ourfax.com (where FAX NUMBER will be your destination fax number) and the email goes out as a fax.

List of email to fax for ourfax.com
2124131918@ourfax.com,
3128945001@ourfax.com,
5195700072@ourfax.com,
2129033350@ourfax.com,
2129033588@ourfax.com

List of email to fax for tpc.int
Ron_Nelson@12124131918.iddd.tpc.int,
Carol_Jouzaitis@13128945001.iddd.tpc.int,
Better_Business_Bureau@15195700072.iddd.tpc.int,
Customer_Relations@12129033350.iddd.tpc.int,
Customer_Relations@12129033568.iddd.tpc.int

just for sanity sake, here are the listings for the email to fax numbers from page 1
President (dir of Travel Distribution Services) - Ron Nelson Fax: 212-413-1918
Orbitz VP Corporate Communications - Carol Jouzaitis Fax: 312-894-5001
BBB Canada Fax: (519) 570-0072
AZ Fax numbers: General Fax: (212) 903-3350
AZ Fax numbers: Customer Service: (212) 903-3568

Free fax sites that require registration
http://k7.net/ here's one but you gotta sign in.
https://www.efax.com/en/efax/twa/signupFree same too
http://fecg.net/fax.asp some more that may require registration.


Wiki sites
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alitalia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alitalia

Online complaint forms/pages
http://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/intraweb/AirComplaints/AirComplaintForm_e.cfm
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/alit.htm
http://www.airsafe.com/sendit.htm
http://www.my3cents.com/companyList2.cgi?industry=AIRL
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/php/a_report.php

..done

here ya go. added more for what amounts to more fireworks i guess.

cirelli.antonio@alitalia.it, corporatedesk@alitalia.it, ufficiostampa.assemblea@alitalia.it, societario@alitalia.it, Alitaliabe@sept.fr, cantagallo.simone@alitalia.it, demarin.rita@alitalia.it, Marcello@alitalia.it, palpacelli.manuele@alitalia.it, vasta.patrizia@alitalia.it, evangelisti.luca@alitalia.it, cambria.paola@alitalia.it, matassa.giovanni@alitalia.it, castelli.cristiano@alitalia.it, d.artibale.mario@alitalia.it, lombardi.emanuela@alitalia.it, elliot.bloom@cendant.com, jdiefendorf@orbitz.com, Jill.Brenner@cendant.com, Amanda@vollmerpr.com, emily.field@shinecom.com, peter@textwrite.org, oliveira@thornleyfallis.com, marita.hudson@cheaptickets.com, marketplace@cbc.ca, travel@globeandmail.com, wolf@cnn.com, horror@alitaliasucks.com, evan.perez@wsj.com, todayinthesky@usatoday.com, feedback@lfpress.com, bhoyt@orbitz.com, marketplace@cbc.ca , travel@thestar.ca, travel@globeandmail.com, palermo.jacqueline@alitalia.it

info@aviationreg.ie, inquiry@bbbmwo.ca

Updated on the first page in post#4 .....

Here's the link to a post that assembles the work of many contributors here.

http://web2.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5573574&postcount=4

Thank you all for this effort, and the emailing and faxing. ^^

in case no one's posted any of these, some more contact ideas:

Budget Travel Online (http://www.budgettravelonline.com/bt-srv/misc/contactus.html)

My 3 Cents (http://www.my3cents.com) - a complaint site, not sure if posting here results in any action by anyone

Condé Nast Traveler "Ombudsman" feature - write a letter to: Ombudsman at Condé Nast Traveler (4 Times Square, New York, N.Y. 10036)
(looks like there's no email submission form)

at this point I'd offer AZ a deal - I'll give back my ticket if you buy me a Y fare on a decent airline :rolleyes:

Just sent an email to the above list. Thanks to everyone for all of the research.

A story on how online communities organize? :D

good angle :cool: not to mention the question of what paper tickets really mean when it comes to airfare, apparently most travelers don't really know, it just doesn't affect them most of the time

Here is my letter~before I send out a blitz of faxes and e-mails, any suggestions?

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am writing to you today in hopes of resolving an ongoing issue.

On April 5, 2006, I purchased two business class tickets via Cheaptickets.com flying from Toronto to Larnaca, Cyprus on Alitalia Airlines for travel from August 8-16, 2006. I specifically booked my travel to include a four day stopover in Milan, Italy beginning on August 12 before the returning to Toronto. This was allowable under the fare rules at the time of purchase: specifically, the original fare rules allowed for stopovers, dates changes, and other considerations typically found with business class tickets.

On April 6, Alitalia cancelled certain segments of my travel. Later that same day they announced their decision to honor this fare, and I subsequently spoke with Cheaptickets.com and was assured that my tickets would be reinstated. I was initially told this would take 24 hours, but this has already stretched out over 2 weeks. At no point during this ordeal have I been contacted by Cheap Tickets or Alitalia and informed of any changes: in fact, despite many promises of return calls, any information I have received has only been gained by my diligent follow-up on this situation. I did however receive my paper tickets for the flights as I originally booked them, including my 4 day stopover in Milan.

On April 18, I checked the Cheaptickets.com website and found that certain parts of my trip had been reinstated, but on different routings. Further inquiries found that my LCA-MXP segment had been waitlisted with the wrong date, which decreased my scheduled Milan stopover from 4 days to approximately 22 hours. As I had specifically planned my trip to include that stopover, this is unacceptable: I have already made non-changeable arrangements for my four day stay in Italy based on the assurances from both Cheaptickets.com and Alitalia that my original reservations would be honored.

I certainly appreciate Alitalia doing the "stand up" thing and honoring the fare. However, what remains of my reservation does not match what I booked nor my paper tickets. As of now I am comfortable accepting the updated routing on my YYZ-MXP segments so long as the DATES of my original travel are reinstated as I booked them, particularly the LCA-MXP-LCA segments which allow my 4 day layover.

Even though I printed a copy of the fare rules at the time of booking, I am currently unable to view the fare rules online via Cheaptickets.com. Why? I asked Cheap Tickets to review the rules and was told Alitalia is no longer allowing date changes or stopovers, despite these being features of the fare I booked. It appears that Alitalia is attempting to backdate a new set of fare rules to apply to these tickets. I ask on what grounds can Alitalia unilaterally and without notice change the rules of carriage for these affected tickets?

In light of the many confusing aspects to this situation, I anticipate prompt action on the following requests:

1) For my original four day stopover commencing August 12 in Milan to be reinstated.
2) A copy of the original fare rules effective at the time I booked these tickets.
3) If Alitalia has already altered (or intends to alter) the original fare rules, a copy of the new fare rules specifically highlighting the changes as well as documentation citing Alitalia's legal right to unilaterally change the contract of carriage without consent of the other party (me).
4) How Alitalia and Cheap Tickets plan to resolve this situation, and what the time frame is for resolution.

I look forward to your prompt reply. Thank you.

Sincerely,

IrishRed

Edited to add that obviously I will change things based on where it's going (news v. CT/Alitalia).

Updated on the first page in post#4 .....

Here's the link to a post that assembles the work of many contributors here.

http://web2.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5573574&postcount=4

Thank you all for this effort, and the emailing and faxing. ^^

Nope, GUWonder Thank you!

i think the thing you should stress the most is the date changes...the stopovers wont catch media attention. tell them that people have had their vacation dates changed to times they cannot go including some who have had their flights changed to 30 days later...and that alitalia is not informing anyone of the changes

then u can put all the other stuff. i just think the changing the dates to when people cant travel will be more understandable then, uh they wont allow stopovers...

and make sure they mention orbitz and CT arent helping at all! put the heat on the TA's also...

r
Highlighting what will attract media attention/be interesting and understandable to the general public is critical.

I would suggest that the public would also more easily understand cancelled segments/creation of the swim team than other factors like stopovers, etc.

just a little reminder: remember not to copy and paste the entire list of email addresses in the "To:" field ;)

if it looks like mass emailing it would come across as very unprofessional, and, as we've learned, being unprofessional is AZ's job :p

... try wolf@cnn.com. Didn't bounceback for me!



Thanks to all for the hard work on this!

Good call, I guess I was getting a little zealous with the 'F's..... hmmm

Brokeboy For some reason I can't get those fax pages to work. When I actually try to send it give me the generic 'this page cannot be found' screen..

Thanks again GUWonder for maintaining the info, and to everyone who is working together to affect some positive change!

GUWonder,
Mille grazie for what looks like a mammoth effort in assembling the info in Post 4! ^

And thanks to everyone for the collective action.

just a little reminder: remember not to copy and paste the entire list of email addresses in the "To:" field ;)

if it looks like mass emailing it would come across as very unprofessional, and, as we've learned, being unprofessional is AZ's job :p

LOL, you mean we don't want AZ to know we're e-mailing everyone and their mother about this?

I think that's the beauty of BCC (blind carbon copy)... I hope I stuck the addresses in there ;).

Good call, I guess I was getting a little zealous with the 'F's..... hmmm

Brokeboy For some reason I can't get those fax pages to work. When I actually try to send it give me the generic 'this page cannot be found' screen..

Thanks again GUWonder for maintaining the info, and to everyone who is working together to affect some positive change!

no idea. try the anonymous emailers then? :)

perhaps this would work?:
Email to Fax: worlds first free easy to use, email to fax service, which enables every email address in the world to send faxes for FREE from their email address. All the user does is type the faxnumber@ourfax.com (where FAX NUMBER will be your destination fax number) and the email goes out as a fax.

another thing to keep in mind when contacting the press: it might be hard to get any sympathy considering how much we paid for these fares, so I think I would emphasize how AZ is seemingly intentionally bungling reservations, changing dates without notification, and backdating fare rules to escape obligations. so we did pay $200 (already billed and paid the charge) but we don't even know if we're receiving the product we purchased. emphasizing legal implications in the letters to AZ (and even orbitz) might not be such a bad idea either

Updated on the first page in post#4 .....

Here's the link to a post that assembles the work of many contributors here.

http://web2.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5573574&postcount=4

Thank you all for this effort, and the emailing and faxing. ^^


Thanks a lot,great job! ^ ^ ^

Would be great if you could put the link in you signature,you are on every page! :D

Thanks a lot,great job! ^ ^ ^

Would be great if you could put the link in you signature,you are on every page! :D

Good idea. I'll do it for a bit. :D

But then change it back to: "This game is a lot less fun than it used to be." :D

Elephant

Edit: What I was trying to do is already here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544836

Since many people have asked about trying to organize who is traveling when, let's give this a try. E-mail, fax, and add yourself to the list!

Name || Original Trav Dates || 'New' Dates || Changed Routing?|| Tickets in hand? || Swim Team?

Peatisback || 12/16-12/23 || 12/16-12/22 || Yes || Yes || No

There's a post over in Community Buzz: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544836

Although it looks like it could use some updating...

Good idea. I'll do it for a bit. :D

But then change it back to: "This game is a lot less fun than it used to be." :D

Elephant


You can use both!I didn't want to deprive you of your original signature! :D

Good idea. I'll do it for a bit. :D

But then change it back to: "This game is a lot less fun than it used to be." :D

Elephant
GUWonder the links at the end of the post you point to are butchered, they contain "..." abbreviating the correct address and are consequently not visible to me. Can you correct them?

There's a post over in Community Buzz: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544836

Although it looks like it could use some updating...

Thanks, for some reason that is the first time I've seen that post....

GUWonder the links at the end of the post you point to are butchered, they contain "..." abbreviating the correct address and are consequently not visible to me. Can you correct them?

DeltaFlying... Please click on the link? Do the stories appear now or are you talking abt something else?

Poor GUWonder.
lemme help out with the email/faxing list.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5661186&postcount=5041
here's a list i've been updating.

I've emailed and faxed. Thanks again everyone for your help in putting together these contacts.

DeltaFlying... Please click on the link? Do the stories appear now or are you talking abt something else?

Poor GUWonder.
lemme help out with the email/faxing list.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5661186&postcount=5041
here's a list i've been updating.

The links in the form letters don't work. Any others that I need to fix?

Thanks.

Just updated my sig as well with a link to GUWonder's post - spread the word folks!

When calling CT or Orbitz, have people been told that there were "schedule changes" to they're original itineraries? That's what I was told not only by CT but also by AZ in Italy. Now, some two weeks after the fact, I went on line to the Alitalia site, the Cyprus Airlines site and Continental.com and all the flights are still there. In no way have any schedule changes been made. This is another planned act of fraud on the part of Cendant and AZ. Don't they know they are painting themselves into a corner by lying and changing fare rules. I mean changing flights is one thing, but to lie that there has been a schedule change is an insult to all of us... we're a lot smarter than that. I printed out everything I found tonight to confirm that two weeks after changing my itineraries, the flights still exist. I recommend the same thing to everyone, it certaily wont hurt to have more back-up if needed.

Good luck to all, this is going to be interesting.

CF

When calling CT or Orbitz, have people been told that there were "schedule changes" to they're original itineraries? That's what I was told not only by CT but also by AZ in Italy. Now, some two weeks after the fact, I went on line to the Alitalia site, the Cyprus Airlines site and Continental.com and all the flights are still there. In no way have any schedule changes been made. This is another planned act of fraud on the part of Cendant and AZ. Don't they know they are painting themselves into a corner by lying and changing fare rules. I mean changing flights is one thing, but to lie that there has been a schedule change is an insult to all of us... we're a lot smarter than that. I printed out everything I found tonight to confirm that two weeks after changing my itineraries, the flights still exist. I recommend the same thing to everyone, it certaily wont hurt to have more back-up if needed.

Good luck to all, this is going to be interesting.

CF

I love how both 'sides' keep saying that only the other one can make changes. Clearly AZ is the one doing all of this, yet they're the least helpful. Something amusing I remembered from an earlier conversation with AZ reservations:
After debating with the agent for an hour about how AZ has changed the fare rules (the agent refused to believe this is possible or AZ did it), the agent spoke with a supervisor. When she came back on the line, she conceded that they had changed the fare rules, and said that the Travel Agents (Orbitz, CT, etc.) are supposed to contact all the customers and ask if they want to travel on the new fare rules, and if not, tell them they're getting a refund. Ridiculous.

The thing that makes me most upset is they are refusing to give an e-mail address or phone number for the contact person in Rome dealing with this mess. She told me there is a contact but only the TAs can have access to it. I was told to fax my letter/copies of my tickets/etc. to Orbitz, who is then supposed to forward it al to this mysterious contact in Rome. Ridiculous.

Name || Original Trav Dates || 'New' Dates || Changed Routing?|| Tickets in hand? || Swim Team?

Peatisback || 12/16-12/23 || 12/16-12/22 || Yes || Yes || No
OK, I have just setup an online database, so that everyone interested can add their data in a structured way: http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/DRTCA9

P.S. Peatisback: Would you like to be the 1st one to try it? :)

I love how both 'sides' keep saying that only the other one can make changes. Clearly AZ is the one doing all of this, yet they're the least helpful. Something amusing I remembered from an earlier conversation with AZ reservations:
After debating with the agent for an hour about how AZ has changed the fare rules (the agent refused to believe this is possible or AZ did it), the agent spoke with a supervisor. When she came back on the line, she conceded that they had changed the fare rules, and said that the Travel Agents (Orbitz, CT, etc.) are supposed to contact all the customers and ask if they want to travel on the new fare rules, and if not, tell them they're getting a refund. Ridiculous.

The thing that makes me most upset is they are refusing to give an e-mail address or phone number for the contact person in Rome dealing with this mess. She told me there is a contact but only the TAs can have access to it. I was told to fax my letter/copies of my tickets/etc. to Orbitz, who is then supposed to forward it al to this mysterious contact in Rome. Ridiculous.

ok. they can have it their way or when tomorrow comes they get at least 50+ emails/faxes from all the people faxing tonight emails that contain complaints on the same issue... and the BBB and media is involved.

OK, I have just setup an online database, so that everyone interested can add their data in a structured way: http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/DRTCA9

P.S. Peatisback: Would you like to be the 1st one to try it? :)

Added mine...looks like I'm #1. See it pays to be up friggin' late... :D

OOPS...I accidently put mine in twice (I thought I could edit it for clarification, my bad)

Added mine...looks like I'm #1. See it pays to be up friggin' late... :D

Did you see what we did to the "signatures"

Screwed over by Alitalia? Complain! .... with a link to Post#4 in this thread. :D

ok. they can have it their way or when tomorrow comes they get at least 50+ emails/faxes from all the people faxing tonight emails that contain complaints on the same issue... and the BBB and media is involved.

Letters for each ticketed passenger? :D

Did you see what we did to the "signatures"

Screwed over by Alitalia? Complain! .... with a link to Post#4 in this thread. :D

Done:)

OK, I have just setup an online database, so that everyone interested can add their data in a structured way: http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/DRTCA9

P.S. Peatisback: Would you like to be the 1st one to try it? :)

Thanks, KVS! I get busy with something else and 5 other people have already tried it! ;)

I think I mistakenly made two entries when I tried to go back and edit my stopovers.....

Nine minutes till the 9PM mass email campaign....:)


I just wake up and I guess I missed the part about the mass mail.

Please post here again
- the text that is to be sent
- the adresses to which the text is to be sent

as soon as i have these information I will also do my mass mail

I just wake up and I guess I missed the part about the mass mail.

Please post here again
- the text that is to be sent
- the adresses to which the text is to be sent

as soon as i have these information I will also do my mass mail

It's all in this post:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5573574&postcount=4

which is also in many of our signatures.

Don't worry about the timing, as long as you try to get in touch, great. We'll be following this up with another mass-email on Sunday evening, 9pm Eastern.

Added mine...looks like I'm #1. See it pays to be up friggin' late... :D

OOPS...I accidently put mine in twice (I thought I could edit it for clarification, my bad)

Not that #1 is any big deal, but at least you are 2, 3 AND 4!

CF :D

and to be sneaky here are proxies to mask ip. pick one and enter in a url to any of the below links:


I'm confused, why would we want to be sneaky? Wouldn't we WANT them to know that these are coming from legitimate people and not spammers?

Deleted - Found what I was looking for

The links in the form letters don't work. Any others that I need to fix?

Thanks.
Thanks GUWonder, the links I wanted to check work now.

Also, does Travelocity have a VIP number ala Expedia and if so would somebody be willing to share it via PM?

Yes, they do. Private Message sent with what it says for me when I log in and on my card.

Travelocity's CEO may be willing to step up to the plate? :D

Just went on the CT site, which was my only Itin that AZ hadn't messed with and find that the date of MXP-YYZ pushed back a day (it was orig a WEDS!), a LCA-MXP seg added on that day that has me arriving at MXP 2 hours after my MXP-YYZ flight, although the earlier, original booking I had for LCA-FCO-MXP three days earlier is still there. Also looked at my CC statement and AZ's charge was gone. Don't feel like arguing with them over the phone right now though. Ils sont fous!!!! Mon dieu. Trop merde.

- Andy

Good luck everybody. I was online when the deal came-up but I didn't book. I must say that the fact that it is even partially honored by AZ is puzzling me, but I am happy for everybody that has elected to buy some tickets. I am not sure if they made a statement about FFP points but I would expect they will be changing the class for an award ticket class when you will check-in, be careful for that if they try.

The free fax webpage posted earlier isn't working right now, I'm looking for an alternative.

Here is another free fax service over Internet: http://www.denotos.com/index.php3

Good luck everybody. I was online when the deal came-up but I didn't book. I must say that the fact that it is even partially honored by AZ is puzzling me, but I am happy for everybody that has elected to buy some tickets. I am not sure if they made a statement about FFP points but I would expect they will be changing the class for an award ticket class when you will check-in, be careful for that if they try.

AZ has honored all of my AZ DEL-MXP-LHR fares that were even cheaper than this. Free date changes and all, under the original I-fare rules that I purchased then, and they were booked into the I-inventory. :) Those AZ biz tickets were less than $22 roundtrip before taxes and fees and they honored dozens upon dozens. I should know. :D

Once a ticket is issued and an airline says they will honor the tickets, there is no need to be puzzled. What is puzzling me is how AZ management cannot fix this problem by doing the right, honorable thing and stand by their own word .... with the tickets honored in full, original fare rules and all.

British Airways honored tickets in full with premium cabin (WT+) fares for $20 between the US and places all over Europe (as far as Moscow and Istanbul); SAS did it with premium cabin (business) fares for less than these AZ flights between Oslo and Beijing and Shanghai. Even Alitalia has done as well as BA and SAS: last February for 11 GBP roundtrip premium cabin (biz) travel between India and the UK. And the list goes on and on.

AZ has honored all of my AZ DEL-MXP-LHR fares that were even cheaper than this. Free date changes and all, under the original I-fare rules that I purchased then. Those AZ biz tickets were less than $22 roundtrip before taxes and fees and they honored dozens upon dozens. I should know. :D


Why do you think they're being so nasty about it now? Was that a smaller scale incident?

Why do you think they're being so nasty about it now? Was that a smaller scale incident?

Those tickets weren't available for sale for as long as these ones were. And there were fewer of those tickets, especially as starting in India pushed a lot of people away from booking those tickets and/or travelling on them. AZ also didn't have high loads then in the premium cabins. And it was on AZ metal only. And that's not all.

just a little reminder: remember not to copy and paste the entire list of email addresses in the "To:" field ;)

if it looks like mass emailing it would come across as very unprofessional, and, as we've learned, being unprofessional is AZ's job :p


HOW do we send the e-mails? Do we send one e-mail to one person
or
do we sent one e-mail to all of them at the same time?

OK, I have just setup an online database, so that everyone interested can add their data in a structured way: http://KVS.UnrealNetwork.com/DRTCA9

P.S. Peatisback: Would you like to be the 1st one to try it? :)

Hi KVS

thanks for doing this. My only cause for concern (it confused me anyway) is the field labelled 'AZ Modified' as there's nowhere on the table to state whether tickets were cancelled or not and this is different s to whether itineraries have been mauled or not.

(Some people didn't have their tickets touched at all, neither cancelled or modified).

Once a ticket is issued and an airline says they will honor the tickets, there is no need to be puzzled. What is puzzling me is how AZ management cannot fix this problem by doing the right, honorable thing and stand by their own word .... with the tickets honored in full, original fare rules and all.

I got a few deals myself, I understand... However AZ are known to simply refund the reservations when they need to cancel a flight, which they can under the European legislation, without compensation, if they give sufficient advance notice.

Cancellation
Whenever your flight is cancelled, the operating airline must give you:
• a choice of either a refund of your ticket (with a free flight back to your
initial point of departure, when relevant) or alternative transport to your
final destination, and
• meals and refreshments, hotel accommodation when necessary (including
transfers) and communication facilities.
The airline may also have to compensate you, at the same level as for denied
boarding, unless it gives you sufficient advance notice.You shall be informed
about alternative transport.

I have friends that got simply a letter by the mail saying "Your flight is cancelled, we have refunded your credit card, please rebook something else."! And I am not talking about a very low fare, probably it was just easier for AZ to cancel than overbooking another flight. Have a nice stay in Cyprus anyway, I want to go soon, so post some pictures.

Just went on the CT site, which was my only Itin that AZ hadn't messed with and find that the date of MXP-YYZ pushed back a day (it was orig a WEDS!), a LCA-MXP seg added on that day that has me arriving at MXP 2 hours after my MXP-YYZ flight, although the earlier, original booking I had for LCA-FCO-MXP three days earlier is still there. Also looked at my CC statement and AZ's charge was gone. Don't feel like arguing with them over the phone right now though. Ils sont fous!!!! Mon dieu. Trop merde.

- Andy

Andy, did you actually receive your paper tickets or did you only get an e-mail confirmation?

I got a few deals myself, I understand... However AZ are known to simply refund the reservations when they need to cancel a flight, which they can under the European legislation, without compensation, if they give sufficient advance notice.

Cancellation
Whenever your flight is cancelled, the operating airline must give you:
• a choice of either a refund of your ticket (with a free flight back to your
initial point of departure, when relevant) or alternative transport to your
final destination, and
• meals and refreshments, hotel accommodation when necessary (including
transfers) and communication facilities.
The airline may also have to compensate you, at the same level as for denied
boarding, unless it gives you sufficient advance notice.You shall be informed
about alternative transport.

I have friends that got simply a letter by the mail saying "Your flight is cancelled, we have refunded your credit card, please rebook something else."! And I am not talking about a very low fare, probably it was just easier for AZ to cancel than overbooking another flight. Have a nice stay in Cyprus anyway, I want to go soon, so post some pictures.

The flights here are not cancelled. These AZ tickets and bookings were being cancelled despite the flights still remaining scheduled to fly. There is a difference. :)

And AZ's own obligations -- published and agreed to by AZ, and required by law (beyond that mentioned above) -- require it to honor a ticketed fare. Unilaterally cancelling a ticket with prejudice based on an ability to get a higher fare won't hold up unless customers cave in.

Alitalia says this:

We’ll show you the total amount to be paid straight away (fare + taxes and surcharges), so there won’t be any surprises when you actually buy your ticket!

Nice, now stand and deliver.

I chatted with my lawyer (aka my best friend) about this last night (gee Toronto based, just like our flights). He came up with the following:

Send emails and faxes daily, even on the weekend, to as many people we can. If we have media contacts, use them as well. Eventually they will get tired of this and begin to deal with us.

For those in receipt of paper tickets, you are golden. Feel free to show up at the airport to fly based on your paper tickets (keep the orig fare rules with you). If they attempt to change your flights at that time, do not accept the new changes and demand they honour the original ticket. When they refuse, they have breached the contract. At that point if we are denied boarding we are due the IDB per EU regulations.

If we are forced to return early, adjust schedules etc., and they do not put us back on our original flights, we are entitled to return on our original flights, in our paid cabin of service and if we have to pay extra for that, the courts should return that to us as damages. (whether or not you chose to go to court is your call).

If there are any other questions we think need to be addressed, I will ask him. He did state that ticket numbers but no paper tickets are not as solid, but with paper tickets the classic offer/acceptance was made.

(oops I forgot to mention, he indicated we should also explore letting IATA know that Alitalia is flagrantly violating their CoC)

Andy, did you actually receive your paper tickets or did you only get an e-mail confirmation?

Yes, I recieved tickets from both TCY.ca and CT. My TCY.ca itin got messed with first, and my CT itin got messed with recently. Most disturbing is the disappearance of charges on my card though. Not a good sign.

The new segment they have me in is listed as KK, as opposed to HK, which I know means confirmed. I know someone posted a link to a site explaining this, but I can't seem to find the post. Anyone knows what KK means on viewtrip?

UPDATE: Was totally wrong about the HK thing. Apparently, it means "Holds Confrimed", and KK means confirmed. Am I wrong in assuming that HK means waitlisted and KK means completely confirmed? All the legs are still showing on CT and I don't feel like calling up AZ to deal with this until there's some sort of consensus within AZ.

Oy. This is such a pain in the as$. Argh. I've done my part by submitting complaints and sending out e-mails to the press. Hopefully that will bear fruit. If you can't get social justice, you can at least get consumer justice, and I think that that would play very well in the media.

The flights here are not cancelled. These AZ tickets and bookings were being cancelled despite the flights still remaining scheduled to fly. There is a difference. :)

And AZ's own obligations -- published and agreed to by AZ, and required by law (beyond that mentioned above) -- require it to honor a ticketed fare. Unilaterally cancelling a ticket with prejudice based on an ability to get a higher fare won't hold up unless customers cave in.

I completely agree! Don't bend at all and eventually they should respect everything.

As an advice, don't give up calling and faxing the employees the most down the ladder in the corporate structure. They may be the best to put pressure upstairs if they are annoyed enough. :D That's how it works here down south ;)

Yes, I recieved tickets from both TCY.ca and CT. My TCY.ca itin got messed with first, and my CT itin got messed with recently. Most disturbing is the disappearance of charges on my card though. Not a good sign.

The new segment they have me in is listed as KK, as opposed to HK, which I know means confirmed. I know someone posted a link to a site explaining this, but I can't seem to find the post. Anyone knows what KK means on viewtrip?

UPDATE: Was totally wrong about the HK thing. Apparently, it means "Holds Confrimed", and KK means confirmed. Am I wrong in assuming that HK means waitlisted and KK means completely confirmed? Oy. This is such a pain in the as$. Argh.

http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-8235.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5633890&postcount=4221
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5633910&postcount=4223

I completely agree! Don't bend at all and eventually they should respect everything.

As an advice, don't give up calling and faxing the employees the most down the ladder in the corporate structure. They may be the best to put pressure upstairs if they are annoyed enough. :D That's how it works here down south ;)

:D ..... that's how it normally works with the call centers too. "Supervisor" just goes with what the "subordinate" wants. :D

However, this time it's not working so well. :(

http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-8235.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5633890&postcount=4221
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5633910&postcount=4223

Huh. That's weird. The Galileo code list I looked up made it seem very different. So this new segment isn't confirmed. That's good, although I'm pissed they took off a day, but they're probably going to try to screw me over anyway.

May I sugget to further sending complaints to the TCA?

http://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/intraweb/AirComplaints/AirComplaintForm_e.cfm

There was nothing sent to them for twelfe hours (I got now one confirmation number after the one that I got twelfe hours ago).

Ok don't email Paula Obrien she only deals with issues from Ireland. :)

Ok don't email Paula Obrien she only deals with issues from Ireland. :)

Wow.... 256,089 people have viewed this post!!! Not good advertising for you Alitalia!!! :td:

Dear Mr Umguy,



Thank you for your email regarding the problems you are experiencing in relation to your reservations with Alitalia. Unfortunately this Office is not in a position to offer any assistance with your query. We are the Irish national enforcement body for Regulation (EC) 261/2004, which deals with air passenger rights in the event of delays, cancellation and denied boarding. Our responsibility is for flights departing from Irish airports and flights departing from non-EU countries, arriving into Irish airports and operated by air carriers licensed within the EU. Your complaint does not appear to fall within the categories of air passenger rights protected by the Regulation – information about this Regulation is available on our website.



Should you remain unsatisfied with the response from Alitalia, the Canadian Transportation Agency may be able to provide advice: http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/cta-otc2000/faqs/filing_e.html

Of course, you could also seek legal advice on the issue.



I trust this information is of use.



Yours sincerely,



Paula O' Brien



EU Affairs Executive

Commission for Aviation Regulation

3rd Floor,

Alexandra House

Earlsfort Terrace

Dublin 2



Tel: +353 1 6611700

Http://www.aviationreg.ie


Has anyone else heard anything back? Could it be time to fax a another letter to Orbitz?

To be honest, I'm more surprised that CT and Orbitz have tried to divorce themselves from this situation. I'd think they would have more chance for recourse with an airline than individual buyers would--and isn't that why we paid the fees to them, to be our advocate when a problem crops up??

I think it's time to focus on Orbitz, more than AZ. The airline has made it clear that they're going to do what they want, even with individual travellers complaining. How many pax complain to them every day?? (Answer: Considering it's AZ, probably hundreds!) I'm sure it's of no effect. But Orbitz and CT, being North American companies with bit PR departments, must be a little worried about this, the more crap AZ pulls. I'm guessing they don't know what to do (since this obviously doesn't happen often), so they're saying to call AZ... while AZ says to call Orbitz, who has been told not to do anything!


Orbitz et al. might have come to the conclusion that

1) greedy people taking advantage of an honest mistake should not be rewarded
2) if their customers don't like it, let them take their future biz somewhere else, good riddance to them all.

I for one would applaude such line of action

Hmm you really have alot to say for a newbie which is kind of strange.

I'm not, to be honest - Cendant has probably had its lawyers look at the current situation, and decide that the current best course of action is to divorce Orbitz and CT from ther situation to the extent practicable in order to minimize any liability from government regulators or private actions.

i agree but the problem is that they took a service fee to act as our agent, no? what does orbitz do (and charge for)? they are the liaison between the passenger and the airline.

Orbitz et al. might have come to the conclusion that

1) greedy people taking advantage of an honest mistake should not be rewarded
2) if their customers don't like it, let them take their future biz somewhere else, good riddance to them all.

I for one would applaude such line of action


1) We are not asking to be "rewarded". We simply want the rules of the ticket that applied at the time of purchase. AZ had the choice whether they wanted to honor these or not and chose to do so.

2) When customers become the "enemy" youm won't stay in business long. When your employees keep inputting fare mistakes you won't stay in business long either.

But somehow that will all be ourr fault, right? :mad:

This is probably not going to be that helpful, but for what it's worth-

we flew into YYZ ysterday on American. While there, I went to the AZ desk to see if I could get my seat assignments changed. I have my paper tickets, and so far no changes in my itin or missing legs. We don't go til Feb.

At first the woman at the AZ desk clearly thought I was nuts to worry about seat assignments so far in advance. But I sweetly begged, asking for the favor since it is the first time Mr S and I have ever flown transatlantic.

I handed her my Orbitz confirmation with the ticket numbers on it. She looked it up, did not show any sign of surprise or concern about the record, and changed our seats. She cautioned me that the seat assignments could change again, and to keep checkingback.

I then asked her about time to check in. Now you must be checked in 2 hrs in advance because they bus yout out to the plane. That is changing and by next Feb it might not be as complex. I would hate to see anyone who has worked so hard to keep this deal not get to travel because of check in time!

So at least the AZ lady didn't cackle in my face and tell me Haha you're never going to get to make this flight!

Wow.... 256,089 people have viewed this post!!! Not good advertising for you Alitalia!!! :td:


IMO...I think its probably the 500 or so people who bought this fare, viewing it several times a day since this all started. and a few bystanders watching the craziness of it all. I really dont think AZ is going to be that worried about the impact of 500 people takling advantage of the mistake somehow...... 500 people who most likely would not have been flying with them anyway.

I just got this from
Amanda Borichevsky
Umguy - Thank you for contacting us, and by copy to our senior customer care team, I'll have someone look into this and get back to you within 24 hours. If you do not hear from someone within this time period, please let me know.



Regards,

Amanda


Too bad I didn't buy my tickets from them. But maybe some of you all can use it.

i agree but the problem is that they took a service fee to act as our agent, no? what does orbitz do (and charge for)? they are the liaison between the passenger and the airline.


haaaaa... i sent a question today to cheaptickets.com regarding one missing flight from milan to newark.

they wrote me back, that i shall deal directly with the airline ! does this give me the right to refuse to pay the service charge?

Actually got a friendly person at Alitalia this morning, who confirmed that my waitlisted LCA-FCO had cleared (and so I'm off the swim team, I hope). I am told that my reservation now exists exactly as originally booked on Orbitz. Again, I hope.

However...Alitalia says they are unable to send email or fax confirmations of paper ticket itineraries. I cannot view this reservation in its correct form anyplace I have tried online. Alitalia says any AZ ticket office or counter can print up an itinenary, so it may be sometime next month before I can see this with my own eyes.

Now on the phone with Orbitz to find out why their My Trips feature is so useless...

[QUOTE=CO 1E]Quote:
Originally Posted by PrivatePilot
This is very interesting... calling it a non publicised special fare! I think they are trying to use this angle in case of an overbooked flight:

It is important to remember if you are travelling free of charge or at a fare that is reduced and is not available directly or indirectly to the public, the airline is not obliged to pay you denied boarding compensation.

(http://oasis.gov.ie/transport/air_t...ed_flights.html)


So basically they will continue to sell tickets on those flights thereby overbooking them. If that happens, they can deny IDB OR simply use the rule below and pay you $20!



It's going to be interesting when people start showing up for flights in YYZ next month and are downgraded or IDB'd, or worse, in LCA or MXP on the return, and they make up whatever reason they want for the downgrade or IDB. Maybe it won't be as much of an issue in the off-season on midweek flights. At this point, I can see AZ telling people just to go home at the ticket counters. It seems clear from the way in which they've hadled the situation and many of the trip report links posted earlier that customer service and public image mean next to nothing to them.QUOTE]



Exactly what I said the other day.

I have sent several e-mails and faxes to Alitalia's management (thanks for providing all the addresses and fax numbers) to suggest that they do exactly that, downgrade to Y whoever tries to use those tickets.

I have also sent e-mails to the travel journalists at the WSJ, the NYT and USA Today to let them know that there is a silent majority of fliers who think that none of you should be entitled to a free ride due to someone's honest mistake, and hope that airlines and online booking sites start taking a hard line on "loyal customers" like you taking advantage of an unfortunate situation which keeps repeating and over which time may end up causing serious damage to the airline industry

Hmm you really have alot to say for a newbie which is kind of strange.


Now Now UMGUY, newbies are allowed to have opinions too, just like people who have posted 20,000 posts......... :p

Maybe he can just see from the 'outside' , how much energy is being wasted by everyone trying to keep this issue alive at any cost.......

But i still luv ya even when we agree to disagree...........Actually reading this thread each morning gives me a laugh to start off my day.......:):)

Exactly what I said the other day.

I have sent several e-mails and faxes to Alitalia's management (thanks for providing all the addresses and fax numbers) to suggest that they do exactly that, downgrade to Y whoever tries to use those tickets.

I have also sent e-mails to the travel journalists at the WSJ, the NYT and USA Today to let them know that there is a silent majority of fliers who think that none of you should be entitled to a free ride due to someone's honest mistake, and hope that airlines and online booking sites start taking a hard line on "loyal customers" like you taking advantage of an unfortunate situation which keeps repeating and over which time may end up causing serious damage to the airline industry


*yawn*

1) We are not asking to be "rewarded". We simply want the rules of the ticket that applied at the time of purchase. AZ had the choice whether they wanted to honor these or not and chose to do so.

2) When customers become the "enemy" youm won't stay in business long. When your employees keep inputting fare mistakes you won't stay in business long either.

But somehow that will all be ourr fault, right? :mad:

1) I fully agree with you. I guess most of us cannot decide at the moment when they are able to fly. That's why business class, i.e. the fare rules DRTCA9, allow flexiblility in regards of re-booking and stopovers! @:-)

2) I wish you were right. Unfortunatelly I doubt... Expedia (Hilton deal) and Travelocity (Japan Hotels) are still making huge profits :confused:

Two questions from my side:
a) Do we have some paper/link/article/statement where Alitalia says the are honoring the tickets ? So far, I only found articles quoting the Orbitz CEO.
b) Is there any tool or website where I can check the availability in D class for Alitalia ? The free version of KVS seems not to work or I didn't mange to make it working.

As our agent, Orbitz, CT, etc need to defend our case with the airline, not tell US to talk to the airline. We paid the service fee and now we want service! Failing this, we will not be using their service in the future.

I chatted with my lawyer (aka my best friend) about this last night (gee Toronto based, just like our flights). He came up with the following:

Send emails and faxes daily, even on the weekend, to as many people we can. If we have media contacts, use them as well. Eventually they will get tired of this and begin to deal with us.

For those in receipt of paper tickets, you are golden. Feel free to show up at the airport to fly based on your paper tickets (keep the orig fare rules with you). If they attempt to change your flights at that time, do not accept the new changes and demand they honour the original ticket. When they refuse, they have breached the contract. At that point if we are denied boarding we are due the IDB per EU regulations.

If we are forced to return early, adjust schedules etc., and they do not put us back on our original flights, we are entitled to return on our original flights, in our paid cabin of service and if we have to pay extra for that, the courts should return that to us as damages. (whether or not you chose to go to court is your call).

If there are any other questions we think need to be addressed, I will ask him. He did state that ticket numbers but no paper tickets are not as solid, but with paper tickets the classic offer/acceptance was made.

(oops I forgot to mention, he indicated we should also explore letting IATA know that Alitalia is flagrantly violating their CoC)

Hi MapleLeaf,

Just one question: Regarding IDB, EU rules specify that one must have a confirmed ticket (which we do), arrive to the airport on time (which we will) and confirm your ticket beforehand. So my question is: When confirming the ticket, if the airline says your flight has changed, what are our rights in that case?

Also, does anyone know Alitalia's reconfirmaton rules? Do they have any?

1) I fully agree with you. I guess most of us cannot decide at the moment when they are able to fly. That's why business class, i.e. the fare rules DRTCA9, allow flexiblility in regards of re-booking and stopovers! @:-)

2) I wish you were right. Unfortunatelly I doubt... Expedia (Hilton deal) and Travelocity (Japan Hotels) are still making huge profits :confused:

Two questions from my side:
a) Do we have some paper/link/article/statement where Alitalia says the are honoring the tickets ? So far, I only found articles quoting the Orbitz CEO.
b) Is there any tool or website where I can check the availability in D class for Alitalia ? The free version of KVS seems not to work or I didn't mange to make it working.

When do you want to look for? I can pull i tout of SABRE for you.

[QUOTE=CO 1E]Quote:

I have also sent e-mails to the travel journalists at the WSJ, the NYT and USA Today to let them know that there is a silent majority of fliers who think that none of you should be entitled to a free ride due to someone's honest mistake, and hope that airlines and online booking sites start taking a hard line on "loyal customers" like you taking advantage of an unfortunate situation which keeps repeating and over which time may end up causing serious damage to the airline industry[/I] [/SIZE] [/FONT]


This is what Sara did, and she got banned. Fingers crossed!!

[QUOTE=UKFlyer81]


This is what Sara did, and she got banned. Fingers crossed!!

Banned for what, having an opinion. ??

Good luck everybody. I was online when the deal came-up but I didn't book. I must say that the fact that it is even partially honored by AZ is puzzling me, but I am happy for everybody that has elected to buy some tickets. I am not sure if they made a statement about FFP points but I would expect they will be changing the class for an award ticket class when you will check-in, be careful for that if they try.

Huh? Why in the world are you puzzled by AZ "even partially" honoring these? And why do you expect AZ to change the booking class so that these come out of award inventory?

1) We are not asking to be "rewarded". We simply want the rules of the ticket that applied at the time of purchase. AZ had the choice whether they wanted to honor these or not and chose to do so.

2) When customers become the "enemy" youm won't stay in business long. When your employees keep inputting fare mistakes you won't stay in business long either.

But somehow that will all be ourr fault, right? :mad:


Management at Orbitz, etc are well aware that they cannot expect any loyalty from the majority of the people who took advantage of this mistake.

The "loss" of as many as 509 dissatisfied customers whose only reason for using them was purely opportunistic would have a negligible impact on their top or bottom lines, and would certainly result in considerable savings in terms of CS manhours.

Management at Orbitz, etc are well aware that they cannot expect any loyalty from the majority of the people who took advantage of this mistake.


If you're going to continue to loiter around here, please knock off the font changes.

I have also sent e-mails to the travel journalists at the WSJ, the NYT and USA Today to let them know that there is a silent majority of fliers who think that none of you should be entitled to a free ride due to someone's honest mistake, and hope that airlines and online booking sites start taking a hard line on "loyal customers" like you taking advantage of an unfortunate situation which keeps repeating and over which time may end up causing serious damage to the airline industry

Setting aside the fact that you have increased the font size in flagrant disregard for the moderator's requests, this post serves to do nothing more than inflame members here, and attract attention. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=mtacchi]

Banned for what, having an opinion. ??

Actually that's not why that handle was banned.

Folks,
I have a rez with YYZ-FCO-LCA, J from YYZ-FCO and Y from FCO-LCA (This was the original booking), and orbitz issued paper tickets which I have in my hand.

nothing has changed for my tickets since the original ticketed confirmation from orbitz

I just check EF for seats on the date of my travel, and guess what EF shows them empty. :confused:

I have also sent e-mails to the travel journalists at the WSJ, the NYT and USA Today to let them know that there is a silent majority of fliers who think that none of you should be entitled to a free ride due to someone's honest mistake

Making up statistics, are you? Good luck with that.

I hope it's not too much to ask that you back up your suggestion that "there is a silent majority of fliers who think that none of [us] should" be able to use these tickets as issued. How did you figure that?

does this give me the right to refuse to pay the service charge?

This is actually something I've considered as well - should we start disputing the TA charges with our credit card companies as well? Orbitz charged me ~59 bucks (I think - this is off the top of my head) for service charges to issue the three tickets I purchased. The problem is that they haven't fulfilled their role as a travel agent.

Anyone thinking about taking it up with the credit card companies? I know Amex fights for their consumers - I actually already paid the bill for this billing cycle, but I'm fine with retro-actively disputing charges with Amex.

This is actually something I've considered as well - should we start disputing the TA charges with our credit card companies as well? Orbitz charged me ~59 bucks (I think - this is off the top of my head) for service charges to issue the three tickets I purchased. The problem is that they haven't fulfilled their role as a travel agent.

Anyone thinking about taking it up with the credit card companies? I know Amex fights for their consumers - I actually already paid the bill for this billing cycle, but I'm fine with retro-actively disputing charges with Amex.

I wouldn't just yet - it could be taken as grounds to cancel your ticket. find out how much time you have to dispute, then wait towards the end of that range so we can gather as much info as we can about what's happening to our tickets.

This is what Sara did, and she got banned. Fingers crossed!!

umguy is correct - although it is a policy to not discuss other members suspensions & bannings, I would like to clarify that this is incorrect. We do not ban members for having opinions.

As for people that are trolling threads, my recommendation would be to just ignore them. The more you fuel their fire, the more they like it. Trolls, IMHO, are like bullies in middle school - they talk trash to compensate for their own shortcomings.

bhatnasx
Mileage Run Moderator

b) Is there any tool or website where I can check the availability in D class for Alitalia ?

http://www.flyaow.com/classcwt.htm

I hope this helps. :)

This is probably not going to be that helpful, but for what it's worth-

we flew into YYZ ysterday on American. While there, I went to the AZ desk to see if I could get my seat assignments changed. I have my paper tickets, and so far no changes in my itin or missing legs. We don't go til Feb.

At first the woman at the AZ desk clearly thought I was nuts to worry about seat assignments so far in advance. But I sweetly begged, asking for the favor since it is the first time Mr S and I have ever flown transatlantic.

I handed her my Orbitz confirmation with the ticket numbers on it. She looked it up, did not show any sign of surprise or concern about the record, and changed our seats. She cautioned me that the seat assignments could change again, and to keep checkingback.

I then asked her about time to check in. Now you must be checked in 2 hrs in advance because they bus yout out to the plane. That is changing and by next Feb it might not be as complex. I would hate to see anyone who has worked so hard to keep this deal not get to travel because of check in time!

So at least the AZ lady didn't cackle in my face and tell me Haha you're never going to get to make this flight!


That gives me hope.......thank you....I will be at YYZ on Thursday next week so I am going to visit the AZ desk and see what they say and hopefully get our seats.......So far everything seems intact maybe it's because we are flying out in the middle of the week and returning in the middle of the week.

I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens at the AZ Desk once I talk to them

Management at Orbitz, etc are well aware that they cannot expect any loyalty from the majority of the people who took advantage of this mistake.

The "loss" of as many as 509 dissatisfied customers whose only reason for using them was purely opportunistic would have a negligible impact on their top or bottom lines, and would certainly result in considerable savings in terms of CS manhours.

unless your name is brian hoyt, I'm not sure you should be speaking for orbitz. of course you are entitled to your opinion, but you seem eager to use your opinion as a vehicle of scorn. one could also argue that orbitz does not want to let an airline it works with violate contractual obligations, mistake fare or not, as it sets a bad precedent and could get orbitz into trouble in the future. they also realize that if they fight for their customer's, those 509 could very well become 509 very satisfied, dedicated orbitz customers. I for one gladly pay a premium on quality and service, and in these days of air travel becoming a commodity, that's how one differentiates.

I wouldn't just yet - it could be taken as grounds to cancel your ticket. find out how much time you have to dispute, then wait towards the end of that range so we can gather as much info as we can about what's happening to our tickets.

Not disputing the ticket charges - just disputing the TA charges. And as for the ticket charges themselves, shouldn't their be a refund on taxes/fees if stopoevers are eliminated?

I had a 30 hour stopover in MXP on the outbound & a less than 24 overnight in FCO on the return & my total cost was ~190 per ticket. What were other people's costs? Was there a difference it you took a different routing or different stopovers? If so, shouldn't those taxes/fees be returned by AZ?

Management at Orbitz, etc are well aware that they cannot expect any loyalty from the majority of the people who took advantage of this mistake.

The "loss" of as many as 509 dissatisfied customers whose only reason for using them was purely opportunistic would have a negligible impact on their top or bottom lines, and would certainly result in considerable savings in terms of CS manhours.


Ok...you claim to be knowledgeable about business practices. If you took Business 101 you would know that, on average, those 509 dissatisfied customers (whether you believe their dissatisfaction to be valid or not) will tell 8-10 people about their dissatisfaction. That word of mouth now equates to 5,090 people and spreads from there.

The customer may not always be right, but they are NOT the enemy!!

Not disputing the ticket charges - just disputing the TA charges. And as for the ticket charges themselves, shouldn't their be a refund on taxes/fees if stopoevers are eliminated?

I had a 30 hour stopover in MXP on the outbound & a less than 24 overnight in FCO on the return & my total cost was ~190 per ticket. What were other people's costs? Was there a difference it you took a different routing or different stopovers? If so, shouldn't those taxes/fees be returned by AZ?

true, it is just the TA charge, but I don't want to give any party here any leeway. maybe I'm just paranoid. my cost was $196 all in, already billed to my card.

And as for the ticket charges themselves, shouldn't their be a refund on taxes/fees if stopoevers are eliminated?

I had a 30 hour stopover in MXP on the outbound & a less than 24 overnight in FCO on the return & my total cost was ~190 per ticket. What were other people's costs? Was there a difference it you took a different routing or different stopovers? If so, shouldn't those taxes/fees be returned by AZ?

For those who were set to transit through the US, here are the various relevant fees we paid:

Tax: US Customs Fee $5.00
Tax: US Immigration Fee $14.00
Tax: USDA APHIS Fee $5.00
Tax: US September 11th Security Fee $5.00
Tax: US Passenger Facility Charge $9.00

Edited to add: Instead of the fees above, transatlantic from Canada has an AZ YQ surcharge of C$84.00. So AZ would be giving us a good deal in this regard! ;)

Not disputing the ticket charges - just disputing the TA charges. And as for the ticket charges themselves, shouldn't their be a refund on taxes/fees if stopoevers are eliminated?

I had a 30 hour stopover in MXP on the outbound & a less than 24 overnight in FCO on the return & my total cost was ~190 per ticket. What were other people's costs? Was there a difference it you took a different routing or different stopovers? If so, shouldn't those taxes/fees be returned by AZ?

Since I'm feeling unusually pleasant about the whole situation (read sarcasm), I'm wondering how much I can dispute without havnig my tickets cancelled.

-The delivery fee? It took them a week to get my tickets with '1-2 business day delivery'.
-The Orbitz CS fee? I've spent more time on hold than speaking to agents. And when I do get to talk to an agent, they tell me to call the airline (so helpful!).
-Taxes? Now that I don't have a stopover in NYC, and my routing is more direct, I think I'm due some money back for the taxes, let alone the associated landing/passanger/sept 11/etc fees.

I really hope this doesn't upset the 'silent majority', I would hate to rock the boat with my crazy ideas. Then again, I don't know how to make the font bigger. I'll have to try ALL CAPS....

Not disputing the ticket charges - just disputing the TA charges. And as for the ticket charges themselves, shouldn't their be a refund on taxes/fees if stopoevers are eliminated?

I had a 30 hour stopover in MXP on the outbound & a less than 24 overnight in FCO on the return & my total cost was ~190 per ticket. What were other people's costs? Was there a difference it you took a different routing or different stopovers? If so, shouldn't those taxes/fees be returned by AZ?

The cheapest I saw, I assume for YYZ-MXP-LCA-MXP-YYZ, was just over $175. Flying through FCO, or adding a stopover in Italy increased the price to about $190, and some routings through the US were >$200.

-The delivery fee? It took them a week to get my tickets with '1-2 business day delivery'.
-The Orbitz CS fee? I've spent more time on hold than speaking to agents. And when I do get to talk to an agent, they tell me to call the airline (so helpful!).
-Taxes? Now that I don't have a stopover in NYC, and my routing is more direct, I think I'm due some money back for the taxes, let alone the associated landing/passanger/sept 11/etc fees.



Exactly - so now AZ is has illegally charged taxes that it is not longer obligated to give to the US government since your not routing through there?

My tickets definitely took more than the 1-2 business days as promised as well!

The silent majority should be concerned about buying a ticket for summer or Thanksgiving travel and having the airline arbitrarily change the travel dates and fare rules because it suits the airline's whims.

I paid 164.88 per ticket,19.95 service,21.95 UPS,But I dont think I want to risk getting cancelled over 20 bucks.Im going to fly this one no matter what lol .

eager to see if anyone received email response to mass emails? besides the one from patricia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrivatePilot
This is very interesting... calling it a non publicised special fare! I think they are trying to use this angle in case of an overbooked flight:

It is important to remember if you are travelling free of charge or at a fare that is reduced and is not available directly or indirectly to the public, the airline is not obliged to pay you denied boarding compensation.

(http://oasis.gov.ie/transport/air_t...ed_flights.html)


So basically they will continue to sell tickets on those flights thereby overbooking them. If that happens, they can deny IDB OR simply use the rule below and pay you $20!



It's going to be interesting when people start showing up for flights in YYZ next month and are downgraded or IDB'd, or worse, in LCA or MXP on the return, and they make up whatever reason they want for the downgrade or IDB. Maybe it won't be as much of an issue in the off-season on midweek flights. At this point, I can see AZ telling people just to go home at the ticket counters. It seems clear from the way in which they've hadled the situation and many of the trip report links posted earlier that customer service and public image mean next to nothing to them.


If they try to pull any crap like this, then how about we all charge a couple or 10 fully refundable bis class seats on our flights to our credit cards a month before our departure dates and then cancel a few hours before our departure. Surely that will stop them from overbooking?

If they want to play hardball, then surely we can as well, right?

eager to see if anyone received email response to mass emails? besides the one from patricia?


Nothing yet.....

If they try to pull any crap like this, then how about we all charge a couple or 10 fully refundable bis class seats on our flights to our credit cards a month before our departure dates and then cancel a few hours before our departure. Surely that will stop them from overbooking?

If they want to play hardball, then surely we can as well, right?

Their argument will not hold up. It was widely available to the public (the fact that it was booked on three or more major commercial websites proves this) and was publicized well (Flyertalk, of course. And (unfortunately) fare alert as well).

If they want to deny me boarding, I'm going to make sure I get every last dollar/euro/voucher/hotel room/flight I am entitled to.

I personally did not obtain one of these tickets. I did try though ;)

I just wanted to say "thanks" for standing up for yourself and your rights as a consumer. I support all your actions! ^

This situation will serve as a back drop for the FT community in the future as in how to handle this sort of thing.

It sounds as if AZ is really trying to make life difficult for everyone involved. If they only put as much time and energy into ensuring that they loaded the correct fares they would not be in this mess. They really had an opportunity to turn this into a PR bonanza for them. But they took the other road.

Companies must be held accountable for their mistakes and let that be a deterrent.

In Canada we have a Price accuracy code. The purpose of the Code is to:

Visibly demonstrate retailer commitment to scanner price accuracy; If it scans at the wrong price either higher OR lower the merchant must give you the item for FREE up to $10.

This law makes it all the more reason for a company to ensure prices are loaded into system correctly!

^

Their argument will not hold up. It was widely available to the public (the fact that it was booked on three or more major commercial websites proves this) and was publicized well (Flyertalk, of course. And (unfortunately) fare alert as well).

If they want to deny me boarding, I'm going to make sure I get every last dollar/euro/voucher/hotel room/flight I am entitled to.


yes, but in theory they shouldn't be able to change fare rules in the first place, and they seem to be getting away with it right now. I'm just saying if our appeals for them to honor the contract get nowhere then we should consider fighting them with their own hard-ball strategies.

The silent majority should be concerned about buying a ticket for summer or Thanksgiving travel and having the airline arbitrarily change the travel dates and fare rules because it suits the airline's whims.

As airlines pocket the proceeds of thousands of bookings from customers who make their own mistakes, and then find they have irretrievably lost their money. (Perhaps not from UKFlyer81 who flies on company metal in J or higher) I don't see why airlines should expect clients to be sympathetic when they themselves make an error.

I'm all for a cool off period that would protect airlines from this kind of parasitical attack... but ONLY if the same courtesy could be extended to clients.

I've had myown blood sucked plenty of times by airlines and hotel chains. In the absence of any refund or remedial measures from any of the instances where I myself have erred (IcelandExpress are the only company who ever helped me out), I don't feel too bad about returning the favour.

My own experiences with AZ have been pretty horrible (I travelled with a F1 team to Milan once and the rudeness dished out at check in to everyone was beyond belief, so it's not limited to tourists on lower fares as I'd always imagined. I'd actually stopped flying AZ once FR came into the picture, extremely relieved to have the chance to drop AZ just as I'd already dropped IB, this experience only enforced my determination to avoid them).

This opportunity to fly Magnifica to LCA would be a great way to sample the J product in a company I actively avoid. I'm hoping for a nice surprise. As someone who books the flights for many of my co-workers, and is often asked for advice from other friends in similar positions, a pleasant experience might lead me to consider AZ over many other airlines who I would usually consider first. I'm sure many other people here would be delighted to be won over by this deeply unpopular airline.

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Are w