-- merely wanted to comment on their incompetent handling of the situation...

I didn't expect AZ to take me all the way to heaven -- just close to the Vatican or Jerusalem -- but I did expect AZ not to push me deep into the fires of ticketinghell. :eek: :D

Travel booked for September. Restored and completely messed up. I'll give them a couple of days and then call but what a waste of time and resources. Ours and theirs. Plus no stopovers means no money spent in Italy - makes no sense. We should really write a letter to Rome

Well, AZ mangled one of their 'reinstated' itins, by not only changing the dates, stopovers,routing, but they plum left out a LCA-MXP or FCO segment on my return.


On a more encouraging note, just spoke with Orbitz in Kentucky, and the nice lady Cece and her supervisor advised me that Orbitz is aware of the situation, and they are 'still arranging' the timetable for AZ to reinstate the tickets. But, there is no question that the tickets will indeed be reinstated....she just said to keep calling back to find out a more definite timetable.

Honestly, after going back and reading all of the fare rules and their fare structure, as well as talking to some other TA's I believe changes anytime mean changes after the departure. Becuase if you were to move the outbound date and and try to reprice in the GDS it gives you the available fare for that day. Now as for changes to the return after the departure or creating a stopover by just extending the days between flights that should be allowed.

Would everyone mind posting approx. dates of travel? AZ keeps saying our tickets will be reinstated in date order, but i've seen reports of January bookings having already been reinstated yet mine in June is still cxld. This may add some fuel when dealing with their BS.

End of August,return Labour Day weekend, reinstated but one tix (mrs ckc's) has suddenly had a segment vanish - LCA-MXP. Orbitz tells me she is waitlisted, despite apparent inventory and the fact I have a paper ticket with STATUS CONFIRMED OK, and a seat no.

Early November trip reinstated and up to now still showing as originally ticketed.

Well, AZ mangled one of their 'reinstated' itins, by not only changing the dates, stopovers,routing, but they plum left out a LCA-MXP or FCO segment on my return.


On a more encouraging note, just spoke with Orbitz in Kentucky, and the nice lady Cece and her supervisor advised me that Orbitz is aware of the situation, and they are 'still arranging' the timetable for AZ to reinstate the tickets. But, there is no question that the tickets will indeed be reinstated....she just said to keep calling back to find out a more definite timetable.

Welcome to the swim team. :D

ckc, welcome to the team too. :D

Travel booked for September. Restored and completely messed up. I'll give them a couple of days and then call but what a waste of time and resources. Ours and theirs. Plus no stopovers means no money spent in Italy - makes no sense. We should really write a letter to RomeWaste of time, IMHO. AZ's Italian employees are extremely rude and generally unpleasant, even before they know that you're calling about the LCA fare. They're not interested in PR, doing right by anyone, or honoring these fares in any shape, form, or fashion. When they restored the LCA fares, it seems like everyone's return leg was screwed up. Stopovers were removed, returns were extended by a month, airports were switched, etc. They're intentionally botching these tickets in an attempt to make it harder to use them. I don't know what the best approach is to deal with them, but it's not diplomacy.

Waste of time, IMHO. AZ's Italian employees are extremely rude and generally unpleasant, even before they know that you're calling about the LCA fare. They're not interested in PR, doing right by anyone, or honoring these fares in any shape, form, or fashion. When they restored the LCA fares, it seems like everyone's return leg was screwed up. Stopovers were removed, returns were extended by a month, airports were switched, etc. They're intentionally botching these tickets in an attempt to make it harder to use them. I don't know what the best approach is to deal with them, but it's not diplomacy.

Trial by media fire -- with the heat also on Orbitz (which bathed in the earlier media glory) -- cannot hurt. It's just a matter of turning up the heat once we get signs later this week in regards to these tickets.

It might also be useful to drop some FYI emails to principals at the other SkyTeam carriers - it probably won't result in any changes in and of itself, but may cause AZ to get brought onto the carpet in a way that we can't as customers - recall that DL/AF/OK have an ATI agreement with AZ, and CO/KL/KE codeshare with the airline.

My tix. still haven't been reinstated, but were never completely cancelled since they include non-AZ segments. I will call on Tues. to figure it out.

In the meantime, I spoke last week to an AZ rep. who informed me that there was a note on my res. that my flight connecting at JFK to AZ didn't meet the minimum connection time and had been cancelled for that reason (which we all know is not true). Thus, she inferred that it would have to booked on AZ out of YYZ. This seems like a cop-out so that they don't have to pay the other carrier. I want my trip as booked, esp. since JFK-FCO is 777, while YYZ-MXP is only 767. Given that you clear US immigration in YYZ, I don't see this as a minimum connection time problem. What do you guys make of this?

My tix. still haven't been reinstated, but were never completely cancelled since they include non-AZ segments. I will call on Tues. to figure it out.

In the meantime, I spoke last week to an AZ rep. who informed me that there was a note on my res. that my flight connecting at JFK to AZ didn't meet the minimum connection time and had been cancelled for that reason (which we all know is not true). Thus, she inferred that it would have to booked on AZ out of YYZ. This seems like a cop-out so that they don't have to pay the other carrier. I want my trip as booked, esp. since JFK-FCO is 777, while YYZ-MXP is only 767. Given that you clear US immigration in YYZ, I don't see this as a minimum connection time problem. What do you guys make of this?

I guess fti posted the minimum connection times at JFK somewhere on the thread.More than a search I suggest PMing him.He needs to know dates of travel and Flight #s IIRC.I guess we are on the same boat.I'd prefer the 777 but going direct from YYZ won't be bad.I gotta figured out of to get to YYZ though.

Trial by media fire -- with the heat also on Orbitz (which bathed in the earlier media glory) -- cannot hurt. It's just a matter of turning up the heat once we get signs later this week in regards to these tickets.
How close to hellish heat do they want to get? :D
I am all in and will not ask to be reimbursed. I will go to court if necessary (even if I lose, I'll gain experience :cool: )

I guess fti posted the minimum connection times at JFK somewhere on the thread.More than a search I suggest PMing him.He needs to know dates of travel and Flight #s IIRC.I guess we are on the same boat.I'd prefer the 777 but going direct from YYZ won't be bad.I gotta figured out of to get to YYZ though.

You're right...the 767 will be fine, and it's probably better to avoid the connection. But it's interesting they say the flights don't meet minimum connection times, while Orbitz is continuing to sell them (albeit at a different price!).

You're right...the 767 will be fine, and it's probably better to avoid the connection. But it's interesting they say the flights don't meet minimum connection times, while Orbitz is continuing to sell them (albeit at a different price!).

Do separate airlines use different MCTs?

Thanks.

Do separate airlines use different MCTs?

Thanks.

From what fti was saying it seems to me that it is an issue more airport-related than airline related.

From what fti was saying it seems to me that it is an issue more airport-related than airline related.

That would make sense and be what I would expect. But I was wondering if different airlines have different MCTs for the same kind of connection (since not everything airlines do is consistent with other airlines). For example, are there instance of something like the following

Fictional Airline passenger coming into Terminal 1 and flying on MadeUp Airline out of Terminal 2 has a MCT of 45 minutes

while

FantasyAir passenger coming into Terminal 1 and flying out of Terminal 2 on PainInTheNeck Airline has a MCT of 60 minutes.

happening?

How close to hellish heat do they want to get? :D
I am all in and will not ask to be reimbursed. I will go to court if necessary (even if I lose, I'll gain experience :cool: )You're not the only one. Had they gracefully weaseled out of honoring these tix (if that's possible) it would be one thing, but they've been complete ******** in dealing with everyone who booked this fare so the Hell with 'em. AZ screwed up, a number of people lucked out, and instead of being tongue-in-cheek congratulatory about it they've been rude, obnoxious, retaliatory, and defiant. They finally caved and honored the tix (so far, anyway) but deliberately went in and tampered with a huge percentage of the return itins. The few that are correct are probably correct so they can claim the screwy itins are accidental. I was very insistent in the beginning that AZ honor the fares. But would I have really gone to great lengths to get back at them had they not honored the tix? No.

Would I go to great lengths now? Oh yeah. Not because I have a burning desire to see LCA but because I've just had it with AZ.

You're not the only one. Had they gracefully weaseled out of honoring these tix (if that's possible) it would be one thing, but they've been complete ******** in dealing with everyone who booked this fare so the Hell with 'em. AZ screwed up, a number of people lucked out, and instead of being tongue-in-cheek congratulatory about it they've been rude, obnoxious, and defiant. They finally caved and honored the tix (so far, anyway) but deliberately went in and tampered with a huge percentage of the return itins. The few that are correct are probably correct so they can claim the screwy itins are accidental. I was very insistent in the beginning that AZ honor the fares. But would I have really gone to great lengths to get back at them had they not honored the tix? No.

Would I go to great lengths now? Oh yeah. Not because I have a burning desire to see LCA but because I've just had it with AZ.

When 8 out of 8 ticketed itineraries have been meddled with -- booked via different channels -- then I cannot see AZ honestly claiming the screwy itineraries are the norm. :(

That or I truly have won a lottery of some bad sort or another. :D

In the meantime, I spoke last week to an AZ rep. who informed me that there was a note on my res. that my flight connecting at JFK to AZ didn't meet the minimum connection time and had been cancelled for that reason (which we all know is not true).

Is this the connection to which you refer? Even DL considers it a legal connection, and sells it on their website. I'm on this one as well and won't accept any alternate routing, it's this or nothing.

Departs Arrives Flight # Cabin & Class Price per Passenger
YYZ
2:30pm
20 Jun 2006 JFK
4:10pm
20 Jun 2006 Delta 5108 *
0 stops Coach (U) Base Fare:


View Fare Rules
*Operated by Delta Codeshare Partner. Click flight number to view flight details.

JFK
6:00pm
20 Jun 2006 MXP
7:50am
21 Jun 2006 Delta 8228 *
0 stops Coach (Y)
*Operated by Delta Codeshare Partner. Click flight number to view flight details.

Have been out of pocket for the last 7 days. Just checked my Thanksgiving itin, and it has been reinstated exactly as originally reserved! On Sunday it still showed as cancelled.

Questions obviously remain, answers for which I will watch FT carefully.
The main being, once we arrive in MXP, will it be possible to change either the flight to/from LCA to a different day? Like most, I would prefer to spend more time in Italy with the previously-allowed stopover. The change would not affect the AZ flights across the pond.

I just shared the trip news with the family. Needless to say, all are excited!

Thanks again FT!

Family member's January tickets reinstated (with MXP stopover eliminated)

Have been out of pocket for the last 7 days. Just checked my Thanksgiving itin, and it has been reinstated exactly as originally reserved! On Sunday it still showed as cancelled.

Questions obviously remain, answers for which I will watch FT carefully.
The main being, once we arrive in MXP, will it be possible to change either the flight to/from LCA to a different day? Like most, I would prefer to spend more time in Italy with the previously-allowed stopover. The change would not affect the AZ flights across the pond.

I just shared the trip news with the family. Needless to say, all are excited!

Thanks again FT!

Did you have a stopover in your originally ticketed itinerary? If AZ doesn't permit date changes, then you're likely to have trouble with spending more time in Italy. If AZ permits date changes then you'll get your wishes; but right now it looks like they don't want to permit stopovers (and AZ is actively eliminating them on ticketed itineraries that had them already). This is why we need to push back hard still until AZ honors the tickets -- fare rules and all -- just like they and Orbitz had publicly announced.

Family member's January tickets reinstated (with MXP stopover eliminated)

No surprise. AZ is systematically eliminating stopovers. :(

When do you people sleep?

When do you people sleep?

24/7. :D

When do you people sleep?


When no one is posting here, of course!

Trial by media fire -- with the heat also on Orbitz (which bathed in the earlier media glory) -- cannot hurt. It's just a matter of turning up the heat once we get signs later this week in regards to these tickets.
From my perspective, Orbitz has been advocating on our behalf. They should continue to do so until the situation is resolved. Let's give them a chance.
--
13F

Do separate airlines use different MCTs?

Thanks.
Yes. There are many factors. Change in terminals, change in airlines, international vs. domestic, etc.
--
13F

Yes. There are many factors. Change in terminals, change in airlines, international vs. domestic, etc.
--
13F

I got most of that, but the aspect I'm most curious about is the airline-specifity part. :) So a change in airlines, by itself, is sufficient for MCT to be different, even where everything else is the same?

I'm just wondering if that if all things remain the same except that one or both of the airlines are substituted by another airline, is the MCT ever different. Any examples?

(What I'm looking for is examples like: a) whether or not something like the MCT for a given AA flight to connect with UA at JFK is the same as for the same given AA flight to connect to BA at JFK -- where UA and BA share the same terminal; and b) whether or not something like the MCT for a given AA flight to connect with UA at JFK is the same as for a LA flight to connect to BA at JFK -- especially where UA and BA share the same terminal and AA and LA share the same terminal.)

From my perspective, Orbitz has been advocating on our behalf. They should continue to do so until the situation is resolved. Let's give them a chance.
--
13F

Pressure from us can only aid in this regard - we don't want Orbitz to stop at merely getting the bookings reinstated but rather to push to get the original fare rules honored. That probably won't happen unless we keep some feet to the fire.

Pressure from us can only aid in this regard - we don't want Orbitz to stop at merely getting the bookings reinstated but rather to push to get the original fare rules honored. That probably won't happen unless we keep some feet to the fire.
We are singing from the same page in the hymnal.
--
13F

If I can just get my ticket reinstated that would be a start.

I'm just wondering if that if all things remain the same except that one or both of the airlines are substituted by another airline, is the MCT ever different.

Yes - while airports have some input into the MCT process, individual airlines ultimately establish their own MCT rules. For example, most airlines have shorter MCT for online connections than for interline connections at the same airport. Connection times can also vary by whether you're coming off a commuter vs. mainline flight - airlines add "exceptions" to their MCTs to allow for this.

\ So a change in airlines, by itself, is sufficient for MCT to be different, even where everything else is the same?

Absolutely. This phenomenon is seen most often when connecting to from an international flight - online connections might be allowed in 60 mins. (or even less), while interline connections must have a minimum of, say, 2 hours.

Has anyone who had an Orbitz and AZ locator # but no ticket # get their tickets re-instated?

Has anyone who had an Orbitz and AZ locator # but no ticket # get their tickets re-instated?

That won't happen - all such bookings have been canceled and refunded by Orbitz. The only bookings that will be reinstated and honored are those that were in fact ticketed.

Saying I ever get to take this flight will I definately earn miles for the CY leg if I credit to AZ? Previous posts hundreds of pages back seemed to suggest so but I thought it went by the operating carrier and AZ don't have any sort of frequent flyer relationship with CY AFAIK.

(well I had to ask as it had been over an hour)

So here is my question will it show on Orbitz if it has been reinstated. Mine still says the same thing. On viewmytrip.com it shows the original itin. On AA.com it looks like Orbitz and just shows my UA and AA segments. Is there any point to calling Orbitz?

So here is my question will it show on Orbitz if it has been reinstated. Mine still says the same thing. On viewmytrip.com it shows the original itin. On AA.com it looks like Orbitz and just shows my UA and AA segments. Is there any point to calling Orbitz?

Exactly the same situation as mine. Orbitz showing just AA segments, as does AA.com (which used to show all segments). However mytripandmore.com shows full itin. as booked and ticketed. I don't fly until october so I won't rush to call but it would be good to know what people think. Am I good to go?

If I can just get my ticket reinstated that would be a start.

Well consider yourself lucky. I haven't even received my paper tickets yet! According to AZ my ticket numbers and booking are still valid. I am hoping I will be pleasantly surprised to find a UPS truck outside my door at some point during the summer.

Reminder: AZ is still celebrating Easter and won't be open until tomorrow. @:-)

For me everyone else I am traveling with has been resinstated and it's all screwy. Days have been moved and all of that stuff. And we really need to get this stuff straightened out so put in for vacation days and stuff.

From my perspective, Orbitz has been advocating on our behalf. They should continue to do so until the situation is resolved. Let's give them a chance.
--
13F

Orbitz completely blew me off today - I hadn't been keeping up with thread over the weekend & I called them this morning - finally got in touch with a Int'l Desk agent & they told me that the ticket was in Alitalia's control because it had been reissued by Alitalia (I never had a problem initially - and I spoke with a CSR from Orbitz last week who said I was good to go with changes). Now, Orbitz.com is showing the updated flights as FCO-LCA; YYZ-MXP (30 hours) MXP-LCA on my outbound (no idea where the FCO-LCA segment came from since I never had that initially).

The Orbitz people told me that I have to call Alitalia - I called AZ & they told me that only Orbitz can make changes - so, now I'm on hold again (45 minutes so far) waiting for the int'l desk - will try to change one more time & if they give me shiznit about it, I'm going to conference call them in with AZ & let the AZ & Orbitz CSRs determine amongst themselves who has control & who is going to make my changes.

This is ridiculous...

Orbitz completely blew me off today - I hadn't been keeping up with thread over the weekend & I called them this morning - finally got in touch with a Int'l Desk agent & they told me that the ticket was in Alitalia's control because it had been reissued by Alitalia (I never had a problem initially - and I spoke with a CSR from Orbitz last week who said I was good to go with changes). Now, Orbitz.com is showing the updated flights as FCO-LCA; YYZ-MXP (30 hours) MXP-LCA on my outbound (no idea where the FCO-LCA segment came from since I never had that initially).

The Orbitz people told me that I have to call Alitalia - I called AZ & they told me that only Orbitz can make changes - so, now I'm on hold again (45 minutes so far) waiting for the int'l desk - will try to change one more time & if they give me shiznit about it, I'm going to conference call them in with AZ & let the AZ & Orbitz CSRs determine amongst themselves who has control & who is going to make my changes.

This is ridiculous...


Try calling the Reissue Desk at 800-228-7162 in KY. Those folks seemed to be on top of the situation, even though they couldn't do anything at the time of my phone call. To recap.......

Orbitz has advised that all itins with ticket numbers WILL Be reinstated. However, the process for this to happen is still being worked out with AZ. Each of my itins had notes inserted by Orbitz CONFIRMING that reinstatement willtake place, but that I should call back periodically to check on progress. Its clear that Orbitz is not sure about AZ's timetable for reinstatement.


Since its also clear that AZ is unilaterally changing itinierary dates, routings, stopovers, I chose not to muddy the waters with Orbitz at this stage about how AZ will deal with original vs. revised fare rules. One step at a time- reinstatement on front burner; getting my ideal itin on back burner.

That said, I for one, am extremely confident that I'll get my desired itinerary based on all the shenanigans piling up here-, AZ cancelling my itin without ever contacting me, AZ reinstating my ticket with a totally different itin, AZ changing fare rules, etc.

As I have been through one of these glitch scenarios before with AZ (and Travelocity), I can assure you that perseverance, NOT need for instant gratification, will be your best strategy for success.

Saying I ever get to take this flight will I definately earn miles for the CY leg if I credit to AZ? Previous posts hundreds of pages back seemed to suggest so but I thought it went by the operating carrier and AZ don't have any sort of frequent flyer relationship with CY AFAIK.

(well I had to ask as it had been over an hour)

If the CY-operated flights are AZ-coded -- like all of mine are -- they do earn (elite-qualifying & redeemable) miles when credited to AZ's frequent flyer program. It's if you try to credit the AZ-coded CY-operated flights to a non-AZ frequent flyer program that it won't work.

Try calling the Reissue Desk at 800-228-7162 in KY. Those folks seemed to be on top of the situation, even though they couldn't do anything at the time of my phone call. To recap.......

Orbitz has advised that all itins with ticket numbers WILL Be reinstated. However, the process for this to happen is still being worked out with AZ. Each of my itins had notes inserted by Orbitz CONFIRMING that reinstatement willtake place, but that I should call back periodically to check on progress. Its clear that Orbitz is not sure about AZ's timetable for reinstatement.


Since its also clear that AZ is unilaterally changing itinierary dates, routings, stopovers, I chose not to muddy the waters with Orbitz at this stage about how AZ will deal with original vs. revised fare rules. One step at a time- reinstatement on front burner; getting my ideal itin on back burner.

That said, I for one, am extremely confident that I'll get my desired itinerary based on all the shenanigans piling up here-, AZ cancelling my itin without ever contacting me, AZ reinstating my ticket with a totally different itin, AZ changing fare rules, etc.

As I have been through one of these glitch scenarios before with AZ (and Travelocity), I can assure you that perseverance, NOT need for instant gratification, will be your best strategy for success.


Yeah I agree, but like I said vacation time has to be put in for and things like that and with all these date changes and blah blah blah I can't do that. I mean as I said my 2 tickets haven't been reinstated yet. And I think 2 weeks in more than enough time. If I just know we are still going on the dates I booked, that will be just fine with me. But if they wait much longer we won't be able to get the time off we need.

Being an adventureous person, I booked my PHX-BUF connecting tickets last night. I can get a one way car rental for about $100. I won't even talk about how frustrated I am that all segments of my flight show K availability on NW, but you can't book their $149 RT fare there. :(

Got rid of $600 in ECVs, and will get to see Niagra Falls and Toronto for a couple of days.

and will get to see Niagra Falls and Toronto for a couple of days.

I booked 2 trips to BUF (from SFO) a few days before this fare became available. :rolleyes: :p I'm currently scheduled for less than a day each in LCA and MXP - I'm thinking of booking a couple of extra days in YYZ/BUF and hoping I'll be able to change my return dates once my LCA trip begins. If that part doesn't work, I'll be stuck with a couple of days in each of Sept, Oct, and Nov in the BUF/YYZ area.

Being an adventureous person, I booked my PHX-BUF connecting tickets last night. I can get a one way car rental for about $100. I won't even talk about how frustrated I am that all segments of my flight show K availability on NW, but you can't book their $149 RT fare there. :(

Got rid of $600 in ECVs, and will get to see Niagra Falls and Toronto for a couple of days.

Seems a few folks will be heading here to BUF. Perhaps we should have a list of who's doing that and when - so y'all can double up and save some $ on the rental car. If someone's travelling outbound on 7/4, I have room for another FTer in my personal vehicle as I'm driving up then and can save you a one-way rental. I'm probably going to leave the area around 11am.

...barring anymore scheduling adventures...

However, the process for this to happen is still being worked out with AZ.

The reinstatement process will likely never get "worked out" completely -- Alitalia frankly isn't competent enough to do that -- the best bet is to get Orbitz to reinstate and then hope Alitalia doesn't randomly change the booking...

Orbitz is now telling me that any changes require a refare with approximately a $4000 add-collect! :mad:

Thanks for the number, beaubo - I'll try that number...I've been at this for literally 3 hours.

My tickets are in hand & are apparently not cancelled by either Orbitz or AZ - both show my itins as valid itins.

Should I be holding off for another few days? I'm curious b/c Orbitz has told me that in order to make any changes, I have to send my paper tix back & once I have the confirmation number in hand for tracking, they'll make the changes. The key thing is that I'm trying to make them do the changes without charging me anything more than the 30.00 per ticket reissue fee - some agents say one thing, other agents say another thing - and now I have about 4 agents documenting my PNR with all kinds of crap. One agent told me that the documentation shows that the initial agent I spoke told me that there'd be a refare when the agent I spoke specifically said there would be no refare......?

Seems a few folks will be heading here to BUF. Perhaps we should have a list of who's doing that and when - so y'all can double up and save some $ on the rental car. If someone's travelling outbound on 7/1, I have room for another FTer in my personal vehicle as I'm driving up then and can save you a one-way rental. I'm probably going to leave the area around 11am.

...barring anymore scheduling adventures...

I was going to fly to BUF then I saw I could use CO reward EWR-YYZ for 20,000 r/t. Much less hassle. Hope your commute from BUF to YYZ works out well.

I just hung up - its time for a break!

Should I be holding off for another few days? I'm curious b/c Orbitz has told me that in order to make any changes, I have to send my paper tix back & once I have the confirmation number in hand for tracking, they'll make the changes. The key thing is that I'm trying to make them do the changes without charging me anything more than the 30.00 per ticket reissue fee - some agents say one thing, other agents say another thing - and now I have about 4 agents documenting my PNR with all kinds of crap. One agent told me that the documentation shows that the initial agent I spoke told me that there'd be a refare when the agent I spoke specifically said there would be no refare......?

I had the same problem a few days back - was assured by a supervisor that I'd only incur the $30.00 Orbitz fee, and then once I got the FedEx tracking number needed for reissue, was then given a different story - any change (even if keeping the exact same routing and fare classes, and even if just changing the return flights) would require thousands in add/collect due to re-fare. Thankfully, I was able to pull my Fedex package before it was sent off, but obviously I was none too pleased.

I just hung up - its time for a break!

Sorry to hear about your troubles. This really does stink.

I cannot believe that I am going to say the following, but I'm thinking that just going to go to the airport with paper tickets in hand and playing clueless -- "oh, they always contact me when there is a 5 minute schedule change, so I don't pay those things any mind" -- is the path of least resistance (even if a gamble). A paper ticket in hand with printed dates on tickets announced as being valid in the international press is a pretty darn good indication of confirmed travel in most lay-persons' eyes.

Until there is some real definitive answer beyond the initial one, I will not be mailing in my tickets to anyone. I am going to push until they get reissued -- if needed -- at an airport ticketing office. And I'm going to make and retain photocopies of my paper tickets before I do anything with them.

It's too bad that it's coming to this. Hopefully by Wednesday we'll have some real resolution to this mess or know where we stand in this mess.

Understandably, I am totally confused about what the heck is going on with this whole Toronto-Cyprus deal. I ordered my tickets through Orbitz for 8/17-8/24. I called Orbitz several times and was told several different things, but as it stands now...

I received paper tickets last week. The Trip has re-appeared in "My Trips" for Orbitz, but I still am not certain/confident I'm good to go or what.


Thu, Aug 17, 2006
Departs 5:05pm, Arrives 7:25am
Alitalia 653
Toronto, Canada to Milan, Italy

Fri, Aug 18, 2006
Departs 1:30pm, Arrives 5:55pm
Alitalia 7706
Milan, Italy to Larnaca, Cyprus

Thu, Aug 24, 2006
Departs 9:15am, Arrives 11:30am
Alitalia 7701
Larnaca, Cyprus to Rome, Italy

Fri, Aug 25, 2006
Departs 10:30am, Arrives 2:25pm
Alitalia 650

Calling Orbitz is no help. Honestly, you could call them 3 times in a row, and get 3 different answers. Atleast that's what happened to me. I'd stress patience over trying to convey common sense to one of them.

I had the same problem a few days back - was assured by a supervisor that I'd only incur the $30.00 Orbitz fee, and then once I got the FedEx tracking number needed for reissue, was then given a different story - any change (even if keeping the exact same routing and fare classes, and even if just changing the return flights) would require thousands in add/collect due to re-fare. Thankfully, I was able to pull my Fedex package before it was sent off, but obviously I was none too pleased.
when you called Orbitz did they change your reservation, or they have to receive your old tickets first and only then they change your reservation? I thought that they can modify the reservation immediately while you are on the phone and at that time it is determined whether repricing should be done

when you called Orbitz did they change your reservation, or they have to receive your old tickets first and only then they change your reservation? I thought that they can modify the reservation immediately while you are on the phone and at that time it is determined whether repricing should be done

There have been a few instances of Orbitz saying that the itinerary has been changed and that you should send your tickets in for reissue. But when you call back, another Orbitz rep will say that your ticket will be reissued but is going to be repriced at the same time and the new fare is $XXXX.00 . That's where the mixed signals are creating even more of an issue.

when you called Orbitz did they change your reservation, or they have to receive your old tickets first and only then they change your reservation? I thought that they can modify the reservation immediately while you are on the phone and at that time it is determined whether repricing should be done

Orbitz supervisors/agents will say whatever they want, but will NOT attempt to modify the booking until the tickets are sent in via FedEx/UPS and the customer provides a tracking number indicating this - it was at THIS point that the story about booking changes soured, forcing me to scramble back to the FedEx office to prevent my tickets from going back to Minnesota.

Orbitz supervisors/agents will say whatever they want, but will NOT attempt to modify the booking until the tickets are sent in via FedEx/UPS and the customer provides a tracking number indicating this - it was at THIS point that the story about booking changes soured, forcing me to scramble back to the FedEx office to prevent my tickets from going back to Minnesota.

Or you could have pulled the same thing they did: "REQUEST RETURN TO SENDER" ;)

Did anyone else have initials on their tickets?

Certainly enough time has elapsed whereby Cheap Tickets and Orbitz could send out emails to all the YYZ-LCA ticketed passengers, with UNIFORM information to clarify all the confusion about reinstatements, fare rules, itin changes, etc.

And if they can not yet clarify those issues, it would still be helpful to get an email acknowledging that the YYZ-LCA situation exists and assuring us that even if the final reinstatement process/solution is not yet in place, that indeed it is being worked on with AZ, as a matter of when not if (as I have already been advised by both CT and Orbitz).

Did anyone else have initials on their tickets?

I did - on the very front cover of the ticket (name and address page).

Certainly enough time has elapsed whereby Cheap Tickets and Orbitz could send out emails to all the YYZ-LCA ticketed passengers, with UNIFORM information to clarify all the confusion about reinstatements, fare rules, itin changes, etc.

And if they can not yet clarify those issues, it would still be helpful to get an email acknowledging that the YYZ-LCA situation exists and assuring us that even if the final reinstatement process/solution is not yet in place, that indeed it is being worked on with AZ, as a matter of when not if (as I have already been advised by both CT and Orbitz).

That would be entirely too easy...

Peatisback, I noticed some initials on the front of my tickets.

My ticket number isn't showing up in Orbitz "Not yet available", the trip is back in My Trips, and I received my Paper Tickets last week.

Is this common for people who booked through Orbitz? Or do you have Ticket Number visible in "View Full Trip Details"

Not really sure what to think one way or another at this point...

No initials on either of my tickets

With AZ changing peoples itins, they're seriously screwing everything up.

HeathrowGuy - I got the exact same information you did. I think that when AZ added the random FCO-LCA segment to my itin, it changed the fare rules to the new ones - which is why they won't allow changes to this ticket.

GUWonder - Have you had an opportunity to swing by a ticketing office yet? I've got flights from DCA this week, but nothing out of IAD til next week (it's about 30 minutes from my house, so I'm not making a special trip out there) - I've got an early AM flight next Tuesday, but will be back around 11:30 on Friday AM - so I will try to stop by the AZ counters when I return with my paper tickets in hand & see if they'd be willing to do a reissue in person. Something tells me they won't - but at least this way, I'll have a real live person in front of me telling me that they're screwing the customer over...

Seems a few folks will be heading here to BUF. Perhaps we should have a list of who's doing that and when - so y'all can double up and save some $ on the rental car. If someone's travelling outbound on 7/4, I have room for another FTer in my personal vehicle as I'm driving up then and can save you a one-way rental. I'm probably going to leave the area around 11am.

...barring anymore scheduling adventures...

I actually have a LCA flight on the July 4th. However, I don't think I'm going to use it, and was *hoping* to change it, but we all know how that's going.

Did anyone else have initials on their tickets?


Yes, It looks like RM.

I have two tickets on AZ which were ticketed and sent to me by UPS. If there are only 500+ tickets it's not that big a deal for a large corporation like AZ to make good on these tickets fast. I don't buy the "Easter Excuse." All this is simply AZ and Orbitz pulling a fast one to look like heros in the press while not honoring their contract, which they ratified when they took my money and sent me my tickets.

This is a matter of trying to get out of a binding contract. I am going to "invite" both AZ and Orbitz to "come on down" to my small rural county and explain their inapproprate behaviour to the judge in small claims court. This to me is really a matter of principal and worth the filing fee.

I'll give it a few more days and then I'm going to file. It appears there's going to be a good summary of the relavent facts here on Flyertalk that can be used by us all in court.

(don't have spell check on this public terminal- sorry brain damage and a phonetic speller)


Sassy!




I

GUWonder - Have you had an opportunity to swing by a ticketing office yet? I've got flights from DCA this week, but nothing out of IAD til next week (it's about 30 minutes from my house, so I'm not making a special trip out there) - I've got an early AM flight next Tuesday, but will be back around 11:30 on Friday AM - so I will try to stop by the AZ counters when I return with my paper tickets in hand & see if they'd be willing to do a reissue in person. Something tells me they won't - but at least this way, I'll have a real live person in front of me telling me that they're screwing the customer over...

I may be passing through ORD on Wednesday and will try to see what AZ will -- or will not -- do for me there. (Time to look into AZ's hours there since AZ doesn't have a presence at the three airports I am scheduled to pass through this week States-side.) If that doesn't work I'll be hitting up at least one AZ desk in Europe next week trying to see what happens. [I hope having my tickets overseas doesn't create havoc with my May YYZ-LCA trip on these tickets. Sending them back to the US for reissue and then getting a hold of them again is going to be a major pain for me in a few weeks.]

I just wish I could get by YYZ to try my luck with the AZ staff there since they look likely to end up becoming VERY familiar with this issue sooner or later.

I have two tickets on AZ which were ticketed and sent to me by UPS. If there are only 500+ tickets it's not that big a deal for a large corporation like AZ to make good on these tickets fast. I don't buy the "Easter Excuse." All this is simply AZ and Orbitz pulling a fast one to look like heros in the press while not honoring their contract, which they ratified when they took my money and sent me my tickets.

This is a matter of trying to get out of a binding contract. I am going to "invite" both AZ and Orbitz to "come on down" to my small rural county and explain their inapproprate behaviour to the judge in small claims court. This to me is really a matter of principal and worth the filing fee.

1) Ratification of the contract did not occur when AZ/Orbitz took your money and sent you your tickets. That was their acceptance of your offer to buy the tickets. The ratification occured later when AZ said that they would honor the tickets.

2) So what if you win in small claims court? Good luck having that judgment enforced in another jurisdiction.

I'm completely on your side, but I don't think small claims court is going to do you any good.

I'll give it a few more days and then I'm going to file.

I think that it is premature to file a lawsuit. Although Alitalia's foot dragging has been exasperating, I'm not convinced that it is in breach of contract yet. If you decide to take legal action in the immediate future, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of anticipatory repudiation. Ditto for specific performance.

I just wish I could get by YYZ to try my luck with the AZ staff there since they look likely to end up becoming VERY familiar with this issue sooner or later.

I met with the ticketing agent and manager on Friday, they told me they have been instructed by Rome not to touch the tickets. Each ticket will be honoured but no changes will be allowed - period. He did tell me that if you are ticketed with a stopover then it should be honoured BUT you cannot change your routing, add stopovers, change dates etc., or else they will do an automatic reprice.

He led me to a number here in NA to call, the results of that conversation led me to the number for the desk in Rome dealing with this issue. Tomorrow a.m. I will be calling Rome (they were not supposed to return until Tuesday).

Depending on what they say in Rome, I may be heading back out to YYZ myself later this week.

I met with the ticketing agent and manager on Friday, they told me they have been instructed by Rome not to touch the tickets. Each ticket will be honoured but no changes will be allowed - period. He did tell me that if you are ticketed with a stopover then it should be honoured BUT you cannot change your routing, add stopovers, change dates etc., or else they will do an automatic reprice.

He led me to a number here in NA to call, the results of that conversation led me to the number for the desk in Rome dealing with this issue. Tomorrow a.m. I will be calling Rome (they were not supposed to return until Tuesday).

Depending on what they say in Rome, I may be heading back out to YYZ myself later this week.

Thanks for sharing. It will be nice to see the AZ ticketing agents and manager at YYZ help us keep our original routing, stopovers and dates.

Did AZ-YYZ have a sense of how much clean-up work will be coming AZ-YYZ's way if the current state of affairs with these tickets doesn't radically improve?

Given what shows on my paper tickets -- which matches what I wanted -- and what AZ now has me down for in their systems and that of the travel agencies, they are going to be in for a lot of work (especially if trying to keep me close to the ticketed schedule).

My YYZ-MXP-LCA flights are as ticketed but the return flights were changed (diffrerent dates and routing). What will happen if I come to the airport with these paper tickets that I have now, will I be able to return to YYZ? :) Everything should be fine until I will try to check-in at LCA to fly back to MXP, my papers tickets won't match the actual reservation in their system. What will happen?

I think that it is premature to file a lawsuit. Although Alitalia's foot dragging has been exasperating, I'm not convinced that it is in breach of contract yet. If you decide to take legal action in the immediate future, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of anticipatory repudiation. Ditto for specific performance.

I concur.

IANAL, but the non-legal avenues for recourse have not yet been fully exhausted. A judge would probably, at the very least, want to see a written communication (and by this, I mean a hardcopy letter) sent by the customer to the relevant Alitalia and Orbitz executive offices in the United States addressing the specific contractual changes.

:D Funny thing - I didn't even make the connection til MapleLeaf's & GUWonder's posts, but I'm actually flying through YYZ on the 25th & I've got about a 1:45 layover there (flying on AC on the way to YYT), so if I've got the time, I'll try to stop by the AZ counter there with my paper tix in hand & see what they say as well.

Not sure what the deal is w/ customs though since this will be my first flight into Canada ever & I've got a connection - but if there's enough time to hit up the AZ counter there, I will...

I can't get answers a straight answer from Orbitz, but I'm sure getting emails with them trying to sell sell sell.

I'll be in YYZ on Friday AM; I'll give them a shot as well.

I think that it is premature to file a lawsuit. Although Alitalia's foot dragging has been exasperating, I'm not convinced that it is in breach of contract yet. If you decide to take legal action in the immediate future, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of anticipatory repudiation. Ditto for specific performance.
Could you expand on those two concepts? It would be helpful if you put it in context.

Ok instead of starting to file lawsuits how about we all email IATA's CEO. They are the ones who are the international regulatory body for the airlines. We could all outline the canceling of ticketed reservations, the changing of the fare rules, the lack of notifcation, itin's not being reinstated in a timely manner, and the reservations that have been resinated are being done so in unacceptable terms such as downgraded cabins, date changes, and forced layovers.

Thoughts?

Ok instead of starting to file lawsuits how about we all email IATA's CEO. They are the ones who are the international regulatory body for the airlines. We could all outline the canceling of ticketed reservations, the lack of notifcation, itin's not being reinstated in a timely manner, and the reservations that have been resinated are being done so in unacceptable terms such as downgraded cabins, date changes, and forced layovers.

Thoughts?


Very good idea. In fact, I'd suggest developing a single concise email letter that can be sent and cc'd to:

1. IATA CEO Giovanni Bisignani - bisignanig@iata.org
2. USDOT - airconsumer@dot.gov
3. Canada's DOT equivalent - cut and paste letter info. here: http://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/intraweb/AirComplaints/AirComplaintForm_e.cfm
4. Italy's DOT equivalent - cartadiritti@enac.rupa.it
5. The EU air consumer protection body - tren-aprights@cec.eu.int
6. Alitalia management -
7. Orbitz - customerservice@orbitz.com
8. An executive office at Delta Air Lines -
9. Continental Airlines CEO Larry Kellner -
10. An executive office at Air France/KLM -
11. Better business bureau of New York - inquiry@newyork.bbb.org

Anyone want to help poke around for some useful email addys for these folks?

Could you expand on those two concepts? It would be helpful if you put it in context.

Sure.

Anticipatory repudiation permits one party to a contract to sue another even before the date of performance when the latter party demonstrates a definite and unequivocal intent prior to its time of performance not to render that performance under the contract. Ordinarily, a breach is a precondition to filing a lawsuit asserting contractual claims. Anticipatory repudiation is an exception to that general rule. In this instance, Alitalia's breach of contract likely will not occur until a passenger shows up at the airport and is denied transportation on a specific flight that was reserved and ticketed. Anticipatory repudiation -- here a clear expression by Alitalia of its intent not to allow a passenger to take a flight as originally booked -- would allow that passenger to file suit before being denied boarding at the airport.

Specific performance is one of many remedies for breach of contract. Generally, the most common remedy for breach of contract is monetary damages. Specific performance compells the breaching party to perform what it has agreed to do where monetary damages provide inadequate compensation for the breach. In this instance, I suspect that most of us would prefer to be transported from Toronto to Larnaca in business class, rather than getting our $33 plus taxes and fees back (monetary damages), although it may be possible to recover benefit of the bargain damages more in line with the fair market value of the purchased travel than the actual price paid if Alitalia, in fact, breaches the contract.

I think that it is premature to file a lawsuit. Although Alitalia's foot dragging has been exasperating, I'm not convinced that it is in breach of contract yet. If you decide to take legal action in the immediate future, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of anticipatory repudiation. Ditto for specific performance.

I'm also on your side on this, but you might have a tough time with the following provision in the Orbitz TOC: "The fare for carriage hereunder is subject to change prior to commencement of carriage."

Already done. Here is the CEO

Giovanni Bisignani • bisignanig@iata.org

I think everyone emailing them will have a big impact. IATA usually doesn't get involved in consumer/airline issues, but this breaks a few of there own rules so I think this may be a bit different.

Very good idea. In fact, I'd suggest developing a single concise email letter that can be sent and cc'd to:

1. IATA
2. USDOT
3. Canada's DOT equivalent
4. Italy's DOT equivalent
5. The EU air consumer protection body
6. Alitalia management
7. Orbitz
8. An executive office at Delta Air Lines
9. Continental Airlines CEO Larry Kellner
10. An executive office at Air France/KLM.

Anyone want to help poke around for some useful email addys for these folks?

I think that an e-mail/letter to the aforementioned 1-7 (plus CheapTickets) would be helpful. I would also recommend contacting the BBB. But I cannot imagine Delta, Continental, and Air France/KLM (numbers 8-10) would be particularly concerned (nevermind sympathetic) with this situation, even though it involves a SkyTeam partner.

The Aviation Consumer Protection Division of the US Department of Transportation can be e-mailed at airconsumer@dot.gov. More information about filing complaints here (http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/problems.htm).

The Canadian Transport Agency has information about filing air travel complaints here (http://www.cta.gc.ca/cta-otc2000/menu_e.html). And an online form is available here (http://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/intraweb/AirComplaints/AirComplaintForm_e.cfm).

The Directorate-General for Energy and Transport of the European Commission, which is responsible for overseeing EU air passenger rights, can be e-mailed at tren-aprights@cec.eu.int.

Instructions for filing an online complaint with the Better Business Bureau are found here (http://complaint.bbb.org/).

I'm also on your side on this, but you might have a tough time with the following provision in the Orbitz TOC: "The fare for carriage hereunder is subject to change prior to commencement of carriage."

Just to be clear, I'm not recommending the filing of lawsuits at this juncture.

I believe that Alitalia will wind up honoring the original routing and dates for those of us who push hard enough. And that is good enough for me, even though I can understand why many of you are enraged at the newly added restrictions on stopovers, date changes, and routings.

Already done. Here is the CEO

Giovanni Bisignani • bisignanig@iata.org

I think everyone emailing them will have a big impact. IATA usually doesn't get involved in consumer/airline issues, but this breaks a few of there own rules so I think this may be a bit different.

Giovanni Bisignani :D yeah right :D


"Bisignani is the former chairman of Italy's flagship airline Alitalia." @:-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Bisignani

Hmmm yea, come to think of it, I've been getting my share recently as well...


I can't get answers a straight answer from Orbitz, but I'm sure getting emails with them trying to sell sell sell.

Ok instead of starting to file lawsuits how about we all email IATA's CEO. They are the ones who are the international regulatory body for the airlines.Actually, IATA is an international cartel that has been created to protect the interests of the airlines. They do not deal with PAX complaints: http://www.iata.org/faq

At the moment, IMHO, it would be rather premature to make any judgements as to whether AZ has breached any contracts. Since this fare is only effective 20 May, they still have a month to 'fix' the affected reservations. I am also not sure what exactly do those posters who intend to confront the AZ airport staff expect them to do, for they will simply be following the instructions from the Rome HQs ...

As I mentioned in my yesterday's post, if someone has some time to spare and will visit an airport ticketing desk or one of the AZ's city offices, a much more productive use of their time would be to ask to see their Tariffs (they have to let you examine them upon request). It would be a 200-300 page document, and the relevant provisions should be contained in Rule 5.


Rule 5: APPLICATION OF TARIFF

Effective Rules, Fares and Charges

All carriage of passengers and/or baggage shall be subject to the carrier's rules, regulations, and tariffs in effect on the date of commencement of carriage covered by the first flight coupon of the ticket.

When the fares or charges collected are not the applicable fares or charges, the difference will be refunded to or collected from the passenger as may be appropriate.

Exception: no increase will be collected in cases where the ticket has been issued prior to the effective date of a tariff containing an increase in the applicable fare, effected through a change in fare level, a change in conditions governing the fare, or a cancellation of the fare itself, provided:

The originating international flight coupon of the ticket was issued for a specific flight at the fare contained in a tariff lawfully in effect on the date of ticket issuance (determined by the validation stamped or imprinted on the ticket.


The originating international flight shown on the ticket is not voluntarily changed at the passenger's request subsequent to the effective date of any increase in the applicable fare.


Flights other than the originating international flight are not voluntarily changed to reflect a revised routing via which the original fare charged would not have been applicable.


This provision shall apply only to the passenger to whom the ticket was originally issued.

Giovanni Bisignani :D yeah right :D


"Bisignani is the former chairman of Italy's flagship airline Alitalia." @:-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Bisignani


HA HA when I saw the Italian last night, I was like oh boy. HA HA.

KVS, so if I head back out to YYZ, and see the Tariff's, what should I note? Will they let me take a copy of them? If not, then what is the point?

Should I take a digital camera with me to look at them?

fyi the Canadian HQ for Alitalia is just around the corner from the airport. That might be a better stop to make.

The best course of action at this point seems to wait for KVS to receive a response on the legitimicy of changing the fare rules, review AZ's Tariffs, and begin drafting a letter to send to the people/entities previously mentioned.

Anyone willing to collaborate on the letter writing? It would be helpful to have input from people with experience with AZ (eg- GUWonder), reservation systems etc. (eg- KVS), law (eg- SAT Lawyer), and Italian (eg- MACH81). All input is really helpful, actually. PM me, I don't mind coordinating.

Is anyone able to get a copy of Tariffs from an AZ office and scan/circulate them?

Anyone with available webspace/programming know-how able to set up a database we can register to (to provide info on ticket numbers received/physical tickets receive/dates of travel, etc.)

I think the more organized the 509 of us can be, the better.

Anyone with available webspace/programming know-how able to set up a database we can register to (to provide info on ticket numbers received/physical tickets receive/dates of travel, etc.) SchmutzigMSP

I can help with a mini website to have people input whatever information.



The best course of action at this point seems to wait for KVS to receive a response on the legitimicy of changing the fare rules, review AZ's Tariffs, and begin drafting a letter to send to the people/entities previously mentioned.

Anyone willing to collaborate on the letter writing? It would be helpful to have input from people with experience with AZ (eg- GUWonder), reservation systems etc. (eg- KVS), law (eg- SAT Lawyer), and Italian (eg- MACH81). All input is really helpful, actually. PM me, I don't mind coordinating.

Is anyone able to get a copy of Tariffs from an AZ office and scan/circulate them?

Anyone with available webspace/programming know-how able to set up a database we can register to (to provide info on ticket numbers received/physical tickets receive/dates of travel, etc.)

I think the more organized the 509 of us can be, the better.

The best course of action at this point seems to wait for KVS to receive a response on the legitimicy of changing the fare rules, review AZ's Tariffs, and begin drafting a letter to send to the people/entities previously mentioned.

Anyone willing to collaborate on the letter writing? It would be helpful to have input from people with experience with AZ (eg- GUWonder), reservation systems etc. (eg- KVS), law (eg- SAT Lawyer), and Italian (eg- MACH81). All input is really helpful, actually. PM me, I don't mind coordinating.

Is anyone able to get a copy of Tariffs from an AZ office and scan/circulate them?

Anyone with available webspace/programming know-how able to set up a database we can register to (to provide info on ticket numbers received/physical tickets receive/dates of travel, etc.)

I think the more organized the 509 of us can be, the better.


In addition to language skills, legal skills are available! :D Law grad there,master in Int'l business and trade law here(almost done)... :D :D

KVS, so if I head back out to YYZ, and see the Tariff's, what should I note? Will they let me take a copy of them? If not, then what is the point?

Should I take a digital camera with me to look at them?
I see no reason why they wouldn't let you make copies, as this is public information (in fact, if you ask nicely, they may even make a photocopy for you if you visit their HQs). In any event, they have to let you see them. Here is the typical wording, as found on the AC's website (http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/before/contract.html):
"ii) applicable tariffs, (iii) carrier's conditions of carriage and related regulations which are made part hereof (and are available on application at the offices of carrier)"

If you will be unable to obtain a copy, look for Rule number 5 ("APPLICATION OF TARIFF") and try to compare the wording they have there with the standard wording I have posted in the previous post (in red).

Also, from AZ's own terms of contract (http://www.alitaliausa.com/footer/legalinfo/index.htm):

"The fare rules applicable from time to time are available at the Carrier offices open to the public, through its product distribution channels, and on Carrier’s website."

So while you're at it, you may also ask for those as well...

This is really cool. The last time I had this feeling of belonging to a common cause is when we skipped school for a day with a bunch of friends. Great :p

This is really cool. The last time I had this feeling of belonging to a common cause is when we skipped school for a day with a bunch of friends. Great :p

Common cause?

http://www.commoncause.org

;)

1. IATA CEO Giovanni Bisignani - bisignanig@iata.org
2. USDOT - airconsumer@dot.gov
3. Canada's DOT equivalent - cut and paste letter info. here: http://forms.cta-otc.gc.ca/intraweb...laintForm_e.cfm
4. Italy's DOT equivalent - cartadiritti@enac.rupa.it
5. The EU air consumer protection body - tren-aprights@cec.eu.int
6. Alitalia management -
7. Orbitz - customerservice@orbitz.com
8. An executive office at Delta Air Lines -
9. Continental Airlines CEO Larry Kellner - larry.kellner@coair.com(?)
10. An executive office at Air France/KLM -
11. Better business bureau of New York - inquiry@newyork.bbb.org
12. Linda Burbank, Travelers' Aide, USA Today - travel@usatoday.com
13. Barry Simon, EVP & General Counsel, Northwest Airlines - barry.simon@nwa.com

I would advise everyone flying into or from YYZ to make a complaint to The Canadian Transportation Agency. You can visit:

http://www.cta.gc.ca/cta-otc2000/menu_e.html

I believe AZ has changed the ORIGINAL terms and conditions of carriage.

I found this on the Canadian Transport site:

Terms and Conditions of Carriage
Canadian and foreign air carriers must publish and make available the terms and conditions that apply to your flight and they must comply with them.

An air carrier must set out its terms and conditions of carriage in its tariff. "Terms and conditions of carriage" cover a number of things such as: limits or restrictions on the weight or size of baggage, compensation for lost, delayed or damaged luggage, compensation for denied boarding (bumping), and the carrier's rules concerning the carriage of persons with disabilities or minors.

The air carrier's tariff contains all its fares, rates, charges, and terms and conditions of carriage. A ticket is proof of payment and only contains some of the information that appears in a tariff.

The Agency can deal with two types of complaints regarding terms and conditions of carriage. These complaints can concern travel within Canada, or international travel to or from Canada provided by Canadian or foreign carriers.

The first type of complaint concerns whether a carrier has applied the terms and conditions of carriage as published in its tariff. If the Agency finds that a carrier failed to apply its terms and conditions of carriage, the carrier will be ordered to do so. Under some circumstances, it could also be ordered to compensate the passengers or shippers. The Agency could also fine the carrier if the Agency found that the carrier had not applied its tariff.

The second type of complaint concerns carriers who have unreasonable or unduly discriminatory terms or conditions of carriage in their tariffs, such as the refusal to provide compensation for lost baggage. If the Agency finds that a term or condition of carriage is unreasonable or unduly discriminatory, it may disallow the term or condition in question, and may substitute a different term or condition in its place.

The Agency may also investigate complaints involving fares, rates and charges on international routes, and complaints that a carrier has failed to respect the provisions of the international air transportation agreement applicable to the flight in question.


I am sure AZ does not want The Canadian Transport Agency breathing down their back. The Agency can and has levied penalties in the past.

Why not also write the reporter that first wrote the article where AZ said they would honor the fare?

I'm confused now, I know that AZ messed up, but I'm not sure what exactly everyone's complains are right now.

Is it that 1. AZ changed your reservation and your dates/routing are not what you booked initially or 2. you expected that you'll be able to change dates but you can't now or 3. you cannot add a stopover?

If its number 1 (messed up reservation, wrong dates) than I have to tell you that it happend to my reservation when it was reinstated and it was reinstated on the first day (Apr 6) so I don't think that was intentional, I think what happend was this: AZ tried to rebook me for the same itinerary but that was not possible because there was no availability in D anymore, or there was no availability in D even before, when I made my reservation, so Orbitz put me in coach but, but AZ agent was trying to book D class. So with the reinstated reservation I was flying from MXP to Boston instead of Toronto. :) But I was able to fix that by keeping calling Orbitz until they and AZ fixed my itinerary. I don't think waiting for them to make everything right is a good idea, you have to call and be persistent.

Regarding paper tickets, could anybody clarify this please: I just got off the phone with Orbitz and the agent called AZ and she said, AZ told her that there is no need to reissue paper tix even if they don't match my new itinerary (only the inbound flights, outbound segments are ok). When I get to the airport AZ will accept old tickets for flying the changed itin. Can this be true? I have no idea. :confused: She also said Orbitz will email me my new itin in the next 24hrs.

I love the power of FT.I would be afraid of doing anything of harm to this frequent-flyer community.I would be really careful,some of the members are in charge of the travel expenses for their respective companies...we are talking about millions,if not billions.

If even 20% of the 509 copied and pasted the finished letter, it would create quite a mess - if nothing else, Alitalia's US/Canada/EU transportation complaint stats would look horrific, and eyebrows would be raised in many quarters. :D

Regarding paper tickets, could anybody clarify this please: I just got off the phone with Orbitz and the agent called AZ and she said, AZ told her that there is no need to reissue paper tix even if they don't match my new itinerary (only the inbound flights, outbound segments are ok). When I get to the airport AZ will accept old tickets for flying the changed itin. Can this be true?If necessary, AZ at the airport should be able to re-issue your tickets to match the updated reservation, just before checking you in. Just be sure to arrive at the airport early enough for them to have sufficient time to do that...

Ok if AZ is open tomorrow in MIA. I will go. I will look and see if the flight operates tomorrow and I will go down to the airport.

I'm confused now, I know that AZ messed up, but I'm not sure what exactly everyone's complains are right now.

Is it that 1. AZ changed your reservation and your dates/routing are not what you booked initially or 2. you expected that you'll be able to change dates but you can't now or 3. you cannot add a stopover?

If its number 1 (messed up reservation, wrong dates) than I have to tell you that it happend to my reservation when it was reinstated and it was reinstated on the first day (Apr 6) so I don't think that was intentional, .

Well I happen to think it is intentional

Most reported changes move our flights from Sat/Sun to Monday/Tuesday. The stopovers are eliminated. AND they still sell biz class ticket for the flights I was originally booked on.
No way it wasn't intentional

1. IATA CEO Giovanni Bisignani - bisignanig@iata.org
Travelocity -- they booked a significant number of these reservations. I don't have a general e-mail address for them, but if anyone has it it would be a nice addition.

Ok if AZ is open tomorrow in MIA. I will go. I will look and see if the flight operates tomorrow and I will go down to the airport.

Thanks umguy. On a separate note, we should also include all the PR people for AZ and the distributors. They will probably not like to see a letter that potentially gets them bad press...

If necessary, AZ at the airport should be able to re-issue your tickets to match the updated reservation, just before checking you in. Just be sure to arrive at the airport early enough for them to have sufficient time to do that...
Thanks!! I also have a printout from the AZ airport desk which shows my new itin, so I have absolutely nothing to worry about? :) The paper tix are for LCA-FCO-MXP-YYZ, but the actual reservation is for LCA-MXP-YYZ now and different dates. And there is no AZ in LCA. When I was at the aiport the AZ guy said they he could not print new tix because they don't have this fare in the system or something like that. Will that be different at check-in?

... is going on?

I had 3 seats booked:

July 7 ( Friday) AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 ( Sunday) AZ 7700 FCO-LCA

Now I look at Orbitz: 2 of them ( on 1 PNR) are still the same, the 3rd, ( different
PNR) shows:

Flight 1: July 7 Friday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
Flight 2: July 8 Saturday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 AZ7700 FCO-LCA

2 flights showing YYZ-FCO???
Are these the changes you all have been referring to?
My reservation was never cancelled/changed, it was ticketed immed, and the tix
arrived 2-3 days later.

Travelocity -- they booked a significant number of these reservations. I don't have a general e-mail address for them, but if anyone has it it would be a nice addition.

Priscilla Marin was (is?) the Executive Resolutions Coordinator at Travelocity at the time of the Madrid deal and was rather helpful. She can be e-mailed at Priscilla.Marin@travelocity.com.

If you need to take an even bigger step up the food chain, Travelocity's CEO Michelle Peluso can be e-mailed at Michelle.Peluso@travelocity.com.

I personally would recommend not overwhelming the folks at Travelocity, Orbitz, and CheapTickets with complaints right now as the ball really seems to be in Alitalia's court. Contacting Alitalia and the various regulatory/consumer protection agencies, on the other hand, seems to be a good idea.

... is going on?

I had 3 seats booked:

July 7 ( Friday) AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 ( Sunday) AZ 7700 FCO-LCA

Now I look at Orbitz: 2 of them ( on 1 PNR) are still the same, the 3rd, ( different
PNR) shows:

Flight 1: July 7 Friday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
Flight 2: July 8 Saturday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 AZ7700 FCO-LCA

2 flights showing YYZ-FCO???
Are these the changes you all have been referring to?
My reservation was never cancelled/changed, it was ticketed immed, and the tix
arrived 2-3 days later.

welcome to the club

... is going on?

I had 3 seats booked:

July 7 ( Friday) AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 ( Sunday) AZ 7700 FCO-LCA

Now I look at Orbitz: 2 of them ( on 1 PNR) are still the same, the 3rd, ( different
PNR) shows:

Flight 1: July 7 Friday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
Flight 2: July 8 Saturday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 AZ7700 FCO-LCA

2 flights showing YYZ-FCO???
Are these the changes you all have been referring to?
My reservation was never cancelled/changed, it was ticketed immed, and the tix
arrived 2-3 days later.

That's exactly what happened to mine, too. My paper tix show the "proper" booking, but the Orbitz ones suddenly removed the 29+ hour layovers in FCO both ways.

I'm sticking with the paper tickets. I may call Orbitz, but I have a feeling that would raise my BP, and I don't need to be doing that. :)

I would advise everyone flying into or from YYZ to make a complaint to The Canadian Transportation Agency. You can visit:

http://www.cta.gc.ca/cta-otc2000/menu_e.html

I believe AZ has changed the ORIGINAL terms and conditions of carriage.

I found this on the Canadian Transport site:

Terms and Conditions of Carriage
Canadian and foreign air carriers must publish and make available the terms and conditions that apply to your flight and they must comply with them.

An air carrier must set out its terms and conditions of carriage in its tariff. "Terms and conditions of carriage" cover a number of things such as: limits or restrictions on the weight or size of baggage, compensation for lost, delayed or damaged luggage, compensation for denied boarding (bumping), and the carrier's rules concerning the carriage of persons with disabilities or minors.

The air carrier's tariff contains all its fares, rates, charges, and terms and conditions of carriage. A ticket is proof of payment and only contains some of the information that appears in a tariff.

The Agency can deal with two types of complaints regarding terms and conditions of carriage. These complaints can concern travel within Canada, or international travel to or from Canada provided by Canadian or foreign carriers.

The first type of complaint concerns whether a carrier has applied the terms and conditions of carriage as published in its tariff. If the Agency finds that a carrier failed to apply its terms and conditions of carriage, the carrier will be ordered to do so. Under some circumstances, it could also be ordered to compensate the passengers or shippers. The Agency could also fine the carrier if the Agency found that the carrier had not applied its tariff.

The second type of complaint concerns carriers who have unreasonable or unduly discriminatory terms or conditions of carriage in their tariffs, such as the refusal to provide compensation for lost baggage. If the Agency finds that a term or condition of carriage is unreasonable or unduly discriminatory, it may disallow the term or condition in question, and may substitute a different term or condition in its place.

The Agency may also investigate complaints involving fares, rates and charges on international routes, and complaints that a carrier has failed to respect the provisions of the international air transportation agreement applicable to the flight in question.


I am sure AZ does not want The Canadian Transport Agency breathing down their back. The Agency can and has levied penalties in the past.

Great find. Can we do this in a concerted way as well?

Well I happen to think it is intentional

Most reported changes move our flights from Sat/Sun to Monday/Tuesday. The stopovers are eliminated. AND they still sell biz class ticket for the flights I was originally booked on.
No way it wasn't intentional
you are probably right, but I also tried to search for LCA-MXP flights on different dates and it's really hard to find any business class availability and what I found was C class not D.

Thanks!! I also have a printout from the AZ airport desk which shows my new itin, so I have absolutely nothing to worry about? :) The paper tix are for LCA-FCO-MXP-YYZ, but the actual reservation is for LCA-MXP-YYZ now and different dates. And there is no AZ in LCA. When I was at the aiport the AZ guy said they he could not print new tix because they don't have this fare in the system or something like that. Will that be different at check-in?It may be too early to tell at this point... AZ may re-issue/sticker your tickets when you check-in at YYZ for your outbound flight (once they receive the appropriate instructions from Rome). In any case, AZ does have an authorized agent in Larnaca and LCA airport: http://www.Alitalia.ca/ca_en/Fly/Offices/OfficesResult.aspx

Great find. Can we do this in a concerted way as well?

Indeed - would just require cutting and pasting the text of the common letter I suppose.

... is going on?

I had 3 seats booked:

July 7 ( Friday) AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 ( Sunday) AZ 7700 FCO-LCA

Now I look at Orbitz: 2 of them ( on 1 PNR) are still the same, the 3rd, ( different
PNR) shows:

Flight 1: July 7 Friday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
Flight 2: July 8 Saturday AZ 651 YYZ-FCO
July 9 AZ7700 FCO-LCA

2 flights showing YYZ-FCO???
Are these the changes you all have been referring to?
My reservation was never cancelled/changed, it was ticketed immed, and the tix
arrived 2-3 days later.

Orbitz may not show your real reservation, call AZ and check

I was just wondering if anyone signed up for Alitalia's mileage program and was able to see their reservation??

you are probably right, but I also tried to search for LCA-MXP flights on different dates and it's really hard to find any business class availability and what I found was C class not D.

well my NEW and NOT IMPROVED itinerary does not have LCA-MXP in bix class anyway. I find it hard to believe that they would change your dates so you travel in comfort and style all the way to LCA and back. I have biz seats on the transatlantic flights - everything else in Y

It may be too early to tell at this point... AZ may re-issue/sticker your tickets when you check-in at YYZ for your outbound flight (once they receive the appropriate instructions from Rome). In any case, AZ does have an authorized agent in Larnaca and LCA airport: http://www.Alitalia.ca/ca_en/Fly/Offices/OfficesResult.aspx
Thank you. So there is nothing I can or should do before the check-in right? Also I already asked before if I should worry that none of the itin checking sites show my reservation, and somebody replied that this is normal for AZ, but should my reservation appear eventually at some point before the flight date on one of the reservation systems (i don't know which system AZ uses) or not?

While I was hoping that these travel agencies would take the initiative and send us status update emails without prompting, that hasn't happened yet.

Another more modest strategy would be for us to call the travel agencies that booked our AZ tickets and request them to document in writing/via email about the status of our itins. And I don't mean just documenting our record in their internal system, but actually have them generate a correspodence that we can use as future proof.

While I have spoken with both Cheap Tickrts and Orbitz and wrote down the names of who I spoke to, which office they were located, time of call, MY summary of the conversation, I have not requested any written documentation from them. I will call them both tomorrow and very nicely, request/demand that whatever has been inserted into my record, be printed out and/or transmitted to me.

Then, we can start comparing OBJECTIVE notes from the SOURCE!!!

Indeed - would just require cutting and pasting the text of the common letter I suppose.

I think we'll be getting a webpage up and running soon, and if not maybe a yahoo group or something like that to post the text of the letter....

While I was hoping that these travel agencies would take the initiative and send us status update emails without prompting, that hasn't happened yet.

Another more modest strategy would be for us to call the travel agencies that booked our AZ tickets and request them to document in writing/via email about the status of our itins. And I don't mean just documenting our record in their internal system, but actually have them generate a correspodence that we can use as future proof.

While I have spoken with both Cheap Tickrts and Orbitz and wrote down the names of who I spoke to, which office they were located, time of call, MY summary of the conversation, I have not requested any written documentation from them. I will call them both tomorrow and very nicely, request/demand that whatever has been inserted into my record, be printed out and/or transmitted to me.

Then, we can start comparing OBJECTIVE notes from the SOURCE!!!

Good call. Objective is definitely the way to go. Unfortunately my experience so far has been that nobody wants to put anything in writing or e-mail form.

Can someone find Paul Blackney's email address. He's Worldspan's CEO.

I was just wondering if anyone signed up for Alitalia's mileage program and was able to see their reservation??

I'm able to find a cancelled res when searching by date. The AZ confirmation number comes back with an error. Also noted that it takes quite a few tries to even get a valid result. What a junk site :eek:

I was just wondering if anyone signed up for Alitalia's mileage program and was able to see their reservation??but should my reservation appear eventually at some point before the flight date on one of the reservation systems (i don't know which system AZ uses) or not?

The only system that would have an accurate copy of your reservation, is AZ's internal res system


You cannot view your reservations on Alitalia.com, even if you sign-up for their FFP, as that site will only show reservations made online on one of the AZ's websites.


If you booked through a TA, you may be able to see the TA copy of your reservation via the associated GDS site (e.g. mytripandmore.com for Worldspan), however changes made by AZ may not always be reflected there

Can someone find Paul Blackney's email address. He's Worldspan's CEO.

CEO/President: Paul Blackney
paul.blackney@worldspan.com

Just sent this to CT; let's see if I even get a response.

Dear Sirs,

I booked a ticket through your website from YYZ to LCA, with a stop in MXP on the return. This was booked with AZ on a fare now indicated by AZ as entered into the GDS in error. (cheap tickets itin - XXXXX; amadeus PNR XXXXX). Unfortunately in the process of re-instating my tickets AZ has eliminated my 1 week in Milan and now has me returning from FCO on 21 July, instead of 27 July from MXP.

AZ and Orbitz, your parent company, were quite clear in the media that AZ would indeed honour those reservations already ticketed. As I have paper tickets in my hands that give me my 7 day stopover in Milan, I would kindly request that you reinstate my booking as originally made. Also kindly note I do have a copy of the original fare rules as posted on your website where the stopover was allowed on this fare and yes your website did honour it, and issued tickets for the route.

When can I expect this ticket to be corrected? The changes being made are not only unacceptable to me, but they are also against Alitalia's general Tariff's, Rule 5.

Thank you kindly,
MapleLeaf

It may be too early to tell at this point... AZ may re-issue/sticker your tickets when you check-in at YYZ for your outbound flight (once they receive the appropriate instructions from Rome). In any case, AZ does have an authorized agent in Larnaca and LCA airport: http://www.Alitalia.ca/ca_en/Fly/Offices/OfficesResult.aspx

What if we only surrender the paper flight coupons being used for the series of outbound flights?

Thanks, I'll do the research on the two terms SATLawyer suggests. I do understand I would have to show the judge I have tried to work this out and have documentation of my efforts.

I also have been working the press on this and agree with others who have posted that a second round of press will not be so favorable to AZ or Orbitz. Writing letters to the short list of decision makers and regulators is a very good idea. I suspect the court of public opinion will be the strong card here.

What if we only surrender the paper flight coupons being used for the series of outbound flights?

You have to present ALL flight coupons (regardless of whether they're being used on that day) plus the passenger receipt upon request.

To be honest, I think some of you are nuts (hope this doesn't violate TOS).

You've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. OK maybe they messed with you, as they did me (changed my LCA-FCO-BOS-YYZ to LCA-MXP-YYZ, with the MXP overnight added).

But heck -- you've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. What do you think the press, other airline execs, IATA etc. are gonna think? I'd think that you got an amazing deal, they went out of their way to get it honored (at least Orbitz did), and many of you are a bunch of whiners.

Sorry, but that's what I think. Me, I'm looking forward to a visit to LCA, even with the date not quite what I wanted, one seg in Y, and a routing I don't like as much. And I'm grateful to Orbitz, FT, the OP, and even to AZ for making it happen.

I'm hoping all of this doesn't cause AZ and possibly the booking engines to say the hell with you all and cancel all of us. I'd be tempted to in their place.

:D Funny thing - I didn't even make the connection til MapleLeaf's & GUWonder's posts, but I'm actually flying through YYZ on the 25th & I've got about a 1:45 layover there (flying on AC on the way to YYT), so if I've got the time, I'll try to stop by the AZ counter there with my paper tix in hand & see what they say as well.

Not sure what the deal is w/ customs though since this will be my first flight into Canada ever & I've got a connection - but if there's enough time to hit up the AZ counter there, I will...
Depending on time of day, and whether you're doing a domestic-domestic, transborder-intl, intl-transborder (you get the picture), 1:45 may not be enough time to do anything other than get to your next gate.
Have a read here: Transferring Flights with Checked Baggage at YYZ: a Guide (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503784)
--
13F

I'd be tempted to in their place.

...but your lawyers would stop you. :D

But heck -- you've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. What do you think the press, other airline execs, IATA etc. are gonna think? I'd think that you got an amazing deal, they went out of their way to get it honored (at least Orbitz did), and many of you are a bunch of whiners.

Sorry, but that's what I think. Me, I'm looking forward to a visit to LCA, even with the date not quite what I wanted, one seg in Y, and a routing I don't like as much. And I'm grateful to Orbitz, FT, the OP, and even to AZ for making it happen.

I'm hoping all of this doesn't cause AZ and possibly the booking engines to say the hell with you all and cancel all of us. I'd be tempted to in their place.I hate to flush this theory down the toilet, but reinstatement would mean they returned the ticket to something close to its original dates and terms.

My return date was changed from December 30 to January 30. That renders the ticket pretty much useless to me, so I would say they didn't go out of their way to honor my ticket. I'd say they went out of their way to render it useless and make everything a PITA. Do you really think everybody's up in arms because they got stuck in economy for a leg or two?

AZ has already said to Hell with us. That's the problem. By stringing us along, jerking us around, and dragging this out they've created far more ill will and vindictiveness amongst FTers than they would've had they just honored the tickets. If they hadn't been complete d**** about it I probably would've settled for an economy ticket. Now I just want to fight them and strike back at them any way I can.

Congratulations on getting a biz class ticket to LCA. Perhaps someday the rest of us will.

To be honest, I think some of you are nuts (hope this doesn't violate TOS).

You've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. OK maybe they messed with you, as they did me (changed my LCA-FCO-BOS-YYZ to LCA-MXP-YYZ, with the MXP overnight added).

But heck -- you've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. What do you think the press, other airline execs, IATA etc. are gonna think? I'd think that you got an amazing deal, they went out of their way to get it honored (at least Orbitz did), and many of you are a bunch of whiners.

Sorry, but that's what I think. Me, I'm looking forward to a visit to LCA, even with the date not quite what I wanted, one seg in Y, and a routing I don't like as much. And I'm grateful to Orbitz, FT, the OP, and even to AZ for making it happen.

I'm hoping all of this doesn't cause AZ and possibly the booking engines to say the hell with you all and cancel all of us. I'd be tempted to in their place.

You ask what they are going to think? I hope they think that they should honor exactly what I bought. I just want my routing and the days and the classes of services that I paid for. There are a group of us going for my bday and as of right now we are all going at different times, leaving at different times and some of them don't have tickets all the way back at all. As I said earlier some of us have to get our vacation requests in and with everything in limbo that just can't happen.

There's still time for you to join the swim team, Alpha Golf. :D

AZ has already said to Hell with us. That's the problem. By stringing us along, jerking us around, and dragging this out they've created far more ill will and vindictiveness amongst FTers than they would've had they just honored the tickets.

Amen.

...but your lawyers would stop you. :D

Yes...I don't know the law with respect to all this...however, I very much doubt that AZ is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Since when would ticking off 500 people by an airline be a big deal for them....it's done all the time but normally just small groups at a time. Their lawyers told them to reinstate the tickets is my best guess on this one.

There's still time for you to join the swim team, Alpha Golf. :D

we have jackets ;)

I'd suggest also contacting various email outlets to increase awareness of the issue, specifically to expose the issue of AZ changing rules/ dates /connection cities/stopovers/etc after purchase. I'd think if there is enough media exposure it would create as much (if not more) of a response than the various legal outlets that have been discussed.

There are an almost endless supply of media contacts, but here's a start on the major players:

nightline@abcnews.com
2020@abc.com
earlyshow@cbs.com
60II@cbsnews.com
48hours@cbsnews.com
ftn@cbsnews.com
comments@foxnews.com
nightly@nbc.com
today@nbc.com
dateline@nbc.com
ombudsman@npr.org
readers.rep@latimes.com
nytnews@nytimes.com
editor@usatoday.com

And a few websites:
http://www.ap.org/pages/contact/contact.html
Email form for CNN:http://www.cnn.com/feedback/

Ok, you get the idea. I also have a list of 100+ emails for various news reporters and investigators for newspapers for the big US cities, as well as a bunch of National media contacts. It's a long list so I won't bother to post it for now, but if someone is collating a list PM me for details.

Somehow I've skated through this whole process unscathed - booked the dates I want (for now anyway), itin never cancelled, received tkts 3 biz days after booking.

But I hope the rest of you get what you booked, or want to book!

cheers

To be honest, I think some of you are nuts (hope this doesn't violate TOS).

You've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. OK maybe they messed with you, as they did me (changed my LCA-FCO-BOS-YYZ to LCA-MXP-YYZ, with the MXP overnight added).

But heck -- you've got a $33 biz ticket to Europe. What do you think the press, other airline execs, IATA etc. are gonna think? I'd think that you got an amazing deal, they went out of their way to get it honored (at least Orbitz did), and many of you are a bunch of whiners.

Sorry, but that's what I think. Me, I'm looking forward to a visit to LCA, even with the date not quite what I wanted, one seg in Y, and a routing I don't like as much. And I'm grateful to Orbitz, FT, the OP, and even to AZ for making it happen.

I'm hoping all of this doesn't cause AZ and possibly the booking engines to say the hell with you all and cancel all of us. I'd be tempted to in their place.
I'm with you 100%, Alpha Golf.
A few of these posters, AZ really messed up their itineraries--a month different is ridiculous--but so much so that I wonder if it's just a mistake, for some of them? I think a day here or there, or cutting segments, is perfectly fine--in fact, it could have happened anyway.
But to be honest, some of this "They screwed me over, I'm gonna sue their a**" stuff is much--
FYI, ALL OF MY SECTORS ARE STILL THE SAME, ALL ARE REINSTATED, ALL IN BIZ. I even have seat assignments. As for those who say, "They're going to mess with your itin soon," I will be the first to let you know when that happens. Until then--
Thank you AZ, CT, and FT for all of the help. I will unsubscribe from this thread, and check back now and then to see what's up.

fyi CT emailed me back and said reinstatement issues are out of the scope of their assistance. Take it up with Alitalia directly - they want nothing further to do with the tickets they issued.

Nice guys

I will unsubscribe from this thread, and check back now and then to see what's up.

I tried that, but the unfortunate thing is that the thread grows too quickly, and if you're out of the loop, you have to come back and ask questions like the following some 150 pages later: Could someone please repost a link to the press coverage the deal got?

I'm serious about that request, could someone please point me to the appropriate milepost? Thanks!

I'd suggest also contacting various email outlets to increase awareness of the issue, specifically to expose the issue of AZ changing rules/ dates /connection cities/stopovers/etc after purchase. I'd think if there is enough media exposure it would create as much (if not more) of a response than the various legal outlets that have been discussed.

Not to rain on this parade, but I don't see the media being very sypathetic to our plight or drumming up a groundswell of public support (wi