We just returned from * biz class reward that went to Asia and returned via LAX to PIT on US first class.

Since it has been awhile since I have done the cross-country in F on US and I just returned from experiencing biz class on both ANA and Thai......I was supremely dissapointed in the kind of F product US offers.

-The club. Please. This place is hidden off in a corner (we walked around 10 minutes and almost decided it didn't exist), and deservedly so. After going in lounges all across Asia and Europe on * carriers, this is just pitiful. You are only paying for a quiet space and that is it. Snacks consisted of dried fruit and a thermos of coffee. You can buy drinks if you want them, but no other food options. That's it. I know the lounges in the US are much less extravagant, but I have to wonder why we even bother.
-The food......NONE. In first class on a 5 hour flight across the country, our only option was the snacks in the basket. Now, this was a red-eye flight, but you think they would offer something for people who were hungry. Not even breakfast? Geez.
- The entertainment......NONE. Again, a 5 hour flight across the country and they didn't even turn on the entertainment system for those who were awake. It's bad enough you don't have a choice and must watch their cabin selections, but atleast turn it on!!
- The seats. I know these are standard US F seats, but they stink. The headrest is curved forward pushing your head out, no foot rest, and our consoles on our seats were cracked and patched with masking tape, and there were pen marks all over the seats in front of us. I felt like I was in a bathroom in Mexico City.
- The bags. Well, this is a PIT problem, but we waited 70 minutes for our bags to be delivered in an empty airport.

I think my problem was more of raised expectations after flying a lot of Asia and Europe *carriers, but I feel sorry for people who actually pay extra for this.

Very accurate report. I've had the same experience recently. At least their service is consistent!

While some of your points are valid, I think you went in expecting too much for a flight that is blocked for less than 4 hours, and with the recent tailwinds has been clocking in at 3:30 - 3:45. Also keep in mind that in late 2004 the WSJ did a review of domestic red-eyes, and US won top dog. They even said the XO's are a good sleep aid.

The club location is the only possible place in the terminal to put it. During the day, it's like walking through a maze or gauntlet of SW passengers waiting at the gate just to get to gate 12. Many of us appreciate that quiet space away from the masses. The clubs are selling sandwiches and salads during the day.

The red-eyes used to have a snack, at least in November of last year they did. Mainly salads or sandwiches. A lot of times out of LAX it was several generous pieces of smoked salmon on a bed of lettuce. That was excellent if you wanted to eat pre-arrival instead of post-departure.

IFE was stopped over 2 years ago. As US pays a license fee for each showing, they found that the percentage of people renting headsets on the red-eyes was not worth it. To me, I like not having the hue of the screens for 2 hours. The music should have been turned on, and you can always ask them to turn it on if they don't.

I agree that the Airbus seats are rock heard compared to the Boeings!

Just to be fair, I should note I had consistently good experiences with all US staff I encountered on this trip. I even had some problems with schedule changes that the CP desk was very helpful in working out to my satisfaction.

While there is always room to improve, at the end of the day, I continue to fly US for the nice personnel, better schedules from PIT, and the good treatment as a CP.

The US Airbus F seats are horrible compared to the HP Airbus F seats. I find it very easy to fall asleep in America West's jets from LAS, but on the SFO A321 red-eyes I toss and turn forever. It's impossible to get a comfortable sleeping position on those birds.

I don't know anything about the club in LAX so I can't comment on that. As far as the flight goes, they stopped all food and entertainment on those flights a while back. General concensus was that passengers just wanted to sleep on those flights and a meal service and screens turned on just prolonged keeping them from getting their zzzz's. There are a lot of businessmen and women that fly out to the west coast early in the morning, work all day and take the red eye home; that makes for a very long day for them and they don't want any distractions on the way home. There are also a lot of people that live on the west coast that will put in a full day at the office and then take a red eye in order to get some business done on the east coast first thing in the morning, and they value the quiet light's out time as well.
When they did serve meals and/or snacks on those flights there were never many takers. The flights leave so late that people had usually had dinner already and didn't want to eat another meal at midnight. I agree that a breakfast snack would be nice, maybe if enough people ask about it they will change it.
Thank you for the nice things you said about US, we appreciate all of you and your thoughts and feedback are very important. Wishing you safe travels! :)

Let's face it, the domestic F service in the U.S. (all carriers) is a joke compared to some of the foerign carriers, and we all know that the US F product is on the low end compared to the other domestic carriers.

Also, over the winter this redeye is usually less than four hours. Nevertheless, I never sleep on these and wouldn't mind a small snack-I agree, a little more should be offered in F. Even so, I am definitely in the minority as I notice only a few individual lights on by mid flight on this A320, so almost everyone is sleeping or trying to sleep, so i kind of understand the lack of wanting to disturb passengers. I generally get amazing service in F since i am usually the only person awake- and the US LAX staff is great. The club is just your run of the mill US club- nothing special.

BTW I like the US F seats MUCH better than the HP F seats on the A320. I don't think there is any comparison.

Maybe you haven't been on the right A320s?

There's a small subfleet of them with crappy old-school 737 F seats - the original Braniff II birds. YES, those F seats completely suck :td:

The newer A320s (and that's the majority of them), and all the A319s, have modern F seats with adjustable wing headrests. I find those much, much easier to get comfortable in than the headrestless US lumps.

BTW I like the US F seats MUCH better than the HP F seats on the A320. I don't think there is any comparison.

And I like the US F seats on the Airbus better than the UA F seats.

I will respectfully disagree with EnvoyBoy with regard to the seats: UA F seats are 100 times more comfortable than any US F seat (except when the A330 is flying PHL-SJU-PHL and sold as "F" compared to TA "C"). The UA seats have the wings for your head which, at least from my perspective, make sleeping very easy. The pitch on the UA F seats seems much better than the US Airbus F seats too --- I don't know if the numbers actually support that though.

With respect to the trip report, I think that the experience is pretty typical for any US-based carrier red-eye "F" experience. Even UA's p.s. service doesn't serve a hot meal on red eye flights (much to the disdain of those who fly the route regularly). Similarly, most red-eye flights on any US-based carrier do not have IFE because people generally prefer to sleep than to have TV monitors reflecting light throughout the cabin. As for the LAX Club, I can't comment because, although I've been to the old LAX Club dozens of times, I have yet to visit the newly-opened US Club at LAX. As for the bags, at that time of the morning, there's really no excuse for it taking so long.

Although I personally would also like to see hot breakfast served before you land on red-eyes, such is not the industry standard at this time (unfortunately). So, on the whole, I think what you got from US (from a product perspective) is fairly comparable to what you would have gotten from UA, AA or others on a red-eye.

Now, if you had flown a UA daytime transcon, that's where you would see the differences --- linens, glassware, multi-course hot meals, ice cream sundaes, warm nuts after take off, hot towels, etc.

Maybe you haven't been on the right A320s?

There's a small subfleet of them with crappy old-school 737 F seats - the original Braniff II birds. YES, those F seats completely suck :td:

The newer A320s (and that's the majority of them), and all the A319s, have modern F seats with adjustable wing headrests. I find those much, much easier to get comfortable in than the headrestless US lumps.

Hmmm. I've done F on HP a couple of times on the 320 and it seemed the same to me. The pitch on HP is less and the backs and bottoms of the seats move in sync (like a Lazy-boy ;) ), which i don't like. The leather on the US seats are more comfortable (pen marks and all) and the cabin's on the A320 series planes on US have nicer cabins IMHO. Maybe I was unlucky and got the old Braniff AC-but I doubt it. Is there anyway to tell which are the old Braniff planes? (Other than i guess getting the tail number and trying to match it via 'Airfleets').

The pitch is definitely less, and from the seat description, you did get one of the newer aircraft. I just find it impossible to sleep on the rock-hard, no-headrest US F seats :)

Is there anyway to tell which are the old Braniff planes? (Other than i guess getting the tail number and trying to match it via 'Airfleets').


Yes. The F seats themselves resemble the F seats that can be found on HP's 757s and 737s. They are a little bulkier than the standard Airbus F seats. If you have never been on an HP 737 or 757, the F seats are almost exactly the same as the F seats on US 737s and 757s.

The A320s with the old-style F seats are also older, first delivered in the early 1990s (as was mentioned, they were originally ordered by Braniff). So the interiors may show a little more wear on them than the other Airbus planes.

I will respectfully disagree with EnvoyBoy with regard to the seats: UA F seats are 100 times more comfortable than any US F seat (except when the A330 is flying PHL-SJU-PHL and sold as "F" compared to TA "C"). The UA seats have the wings for your head which, at least from my perspective, make sleeping very easy. The pitch on the UA F seats seems much better than the US Airbus F seats too --- I don't know if the numbers actually support that though.

I certainly respect your opinion. For me, I find the US leather seats more comfy than the cloth UA seats. In the US seats, I feel more relaxed and in the UA seats, I feel like I'm sitting upright more. Finally, and maybe it's more to do with shape than size, but I find the bottom cushion on the UA seats to be more narrow/tight.

Maybe it's the pea under the cushion. :D

I'll agree with the majority on this one: the US seats on the airbii in F just aren't great. I don't mind the seat or the back, but the headrest part of it is miserably designed. The first time I flew on one from RIC-LGA, I knew I was going to really dislike those new seats on transcons!

I like a leather seat over cloth generally, but US really made a poor choice in the lumbar and headrest components of these seats. Time and time again, I've seen fellow pax wriggling around in those seats on long flights just trying to get a little comfortable. Somehow they made the padding (if you can call it that) about 30% too firm, so instead of feeling like supple leather that somewhat surrounds and cradles you, it feels like leather stretched very tightly over a concrete block with layer of cotton batting in between.

Life goes on ........

Dear Phllax,

According to staff at the LAX Club, they don't sell sandwiches or salads, they only offer snacks (yogurt, trail mix, pretzels) "relevant to the time of day". "Vending sandwiches and salads is only offered at clubs in hub airports," they said.

Kendall