For the last couple of days, we have had a lot of posts from newly minted Flyertalkers wanting us to find them a hotel deal in a particular location. That is not the purpose of this forum, and the moderators are moving those threads to more appropriate venues. They are still listed here, though, cluttering up this forum. Despite the Read THIS! sticky, none of these people are apparently doing that. I can see this problem, but have no good solution to propose, so am soliciting ideas. Off the top of my head, a couple of ideas occurred to me:
1. Change the name of the forum (don't know to what, but something that would be clearer to the reading-challenged).
2. Instead of moving the thread, have the mods PM the OP (perhaps a standard e-mail pointing them to Travel and Dining), and then delete the thread here so it doesn't fill up this forum.

Perhaps I'm addressing a problem that doesn't need to be solved, but if it does, I'm sure that someone else can come up with a better solution. What do all of you think?

I don't disagree with you on the basis that the forum is being used for purposes other than it's intended original goal. Nor do I disagree that it clutters stuff up.

I would say however that it's no different than the Mileage Run forum itself though - lots of people asking for very specific deals.

Someone recently suggested that perhaps hotel deals along with fare mistakes etc should belong to a forum with some accessibility restrictions (perhaps 20-50 posts).
Aside from eliminating 'find me a hotel deal in ...' threads this move would hopefully make fare mistakes last a bit longer.

Hi gemac,

I completely see, understand, and appreciate your concerns. As for the first suggestion, changing the name of the forum - the only ones who can really do that is the TalkBoard - the moderation staff don't really have any input on that.

For the second suggestion, sometimes, the OP (who, as you point out, are generally newbies or relatively new posters to FlyerTalk, even if they've been members for a while) receive responses that don't warrant the thread being closed moved to other forums. If FT'ers respond to threads with helpful answers, then we don't necessarily want to just delete the threads in questions, we move them to a more appropriate forum.

Maybe we need a better & more direct titled thread? We're doing our best as mods to move & delete threads and advise the newbies of their newbie errors. Luckily, no one that has had a thread moved has reposted similar questions yet - so folks are learning - it just take some a little longer than others.

We're definitely open to any and all suggestions that members have, so please feel free to share & continue to provide feedback.

Thanks!

bhatnasx
Mileage Run Moderator

If it were my forum I'd require each person who starts a new topic here (or in MR) to read through the Read This (or ...) and click something at the bottom before they would be allowed to start a thread (the first time only).

Hey, azepine00, I know who that was... (me)

Someone recently suggested that perhaps hotel deals along with fare mistakes etc should belong to a forum with some accessibility restrictions (perhaps 20-50 posts).
Aside from eliminating 'find me a hotel deal in ...' threads this move would hopefully make fare mistakes last a bit longer.

This is a seperate issue altogether & I believe that Randy isn't interested in having FT turn into a "members only" club for these types of posts. As this is a seperate issue altogether which has been discussed in great lengths in both the O.R.P. forum & the TalkBoard forums, please do not (no offense intended with this term, by the way) "hijack" this thread to turn it into a debate. Please use it to provide constructive feedback on how to better get the purpose of this forums message across to folks, both old & new.

Thanks for understanding! :)

bhatnasx
Mileage Run Moderator

I unstuck the "Is this a new forum?" thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516805) as its run its course & that'll give the Read This thread a little bit more of priority placement...

bhatnasx
MR Mod

You might want to try renaming the "Read THIS!" thread to "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!".

You might want to try renaming the "Read THIS!" thread to "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING!".

Agreed & done.

Thanks!

bhatnasx
Mileage Run Moderator

I don't disagree with you on the basis that the forum is being used for purposes other than it's intended original goal. Nor do I disagree that it clutters stuff up.

I would say however that it's no different than the Mileage Run forum itself though - lots of people asking for very specific deals.
In the Mileage Run forum, people tend to ask for help in building a mileage run out of a city on an airline. Some have done their homework but are having difficulties, others just want someone to do the work for them. In either case, more experienced Flyertalkers can help by teaching or pointing in the right direction.

Here, though, there is no good way to find hotel deals (if there is, please enlighten me). Hotel deals either are, or they aren't. The request for a hotel deal in Chicago has no ready answer. It just takes up space.

2. Instead of moving the thread, have the mods .....delete the thread here so it doesn't fill up this forum.This is what is missing in the "fix".
Right now, half the page is filled with "moved" threads:
Shanghai, LA, Chicago, Ottowa, Copenhagen, London, France, Krakow....

They may be moved, but are still there.

I think that the problem might be that this forum and, of course, website, shows up when people are googling "hotel deals", etc.

I really wish the name could be "Mattress Runs". I realize that the mistake rates are not for mattress run purposes, but wouldn't that title draw more posts that are leaning toward those runs... making this more a miles and points forum. I would love to also see outrageous mattress run deals here. Right now it is really a travel related forum.

I appreciate that the moderator is letting this thread stay open so we can discuss here. After some "Hotel Deal discussion, then we can go to the Talkboard Forum with some bullet points?

GKG

This is what is missing in the "fix".
Right now, half the page is filled with "moved" threads:
Shanghai, LA, Chicago, Ottowa, Copenhagen, London, France, Krakow....

They may be moved, but are still there.

Ooops, meant to comment on this.

If the threads are just deleted without comment, newbies and potential new FT afficiandos will be turned away and turned off. It is easily percieved as rude, I think. That would be a bit severe. (Think about that awful woman from biddingfortravel.com. Whom, now that she will read this post, will probably delete ME! Hahaha. )

Though the cluttering is annoying, for sure. :(

I dont suggest to discourage anyone.

The complete gemac #2 suggestion
(which I unfortunately partially replaced with "...... " :eek: )
was to PM the poster,
which should be sufficient.

As it is now,
the cluttering posts are COPIED elsewhere, not MOVED
(at least according to a MS-Windows type definition :D )

The complete gemac #2 suggestion (which I unfortunately partially replaced with "...... " :eek: ) was to PM the poster, which should be sufficient....


Yes, you are right. That is a good idea, of course, and very civil.

gemac,

I agree completely. But, with all due respect, I'd like to plead for always using long, descriptive titles for threads. Only after reading the thread did this title make sense to me. And at that point, I realized that this thread helps me no more than the 'find me a deal' threads do. ;)

Just so everyone knows, when a moderator moves a thread, they have the option of removing the the redirected thread title or getting rid of the redirected thread title in the previous forum. Generally, we choose to leave the redirected thread title in the old forum so that the OP knows that it has been moved, as well as any posters that may have posted on that thread. Lastly, it gives others a chance to see that a thread has been moved and they may click on it, see why it was moved, and will hopefully think before they post.

bhatnasx
Mileage Run Moderator

@:-) How 'bout a "deals wanted" sub-forum under f=607 ?

Puts the clutter all together ^ ..
(and apparently could thus trash the *Last Post* entries for TWO forums!! :rolleyes: ) Yup!!
/.

EDIT: better yet, move the whole mess to the Hotel forums under f=389 and be done with it. ^

@:-) How 'bout a "deals wanted" sub-forum under f=607
/.

Or a "Find ME a Room" sub forum.

As others have pointed out, threads aren't really moved just copied to other forums. And PM'ing the OP and deleting the thread would just make a lot more work for the MODS.

...PM'ing the OP and deleting the thread would just make a lot more work for the MODS.Bhatnasx- is that true, or perhaps it is about the same either way for you?

Bhatnasx- is that true, or perhaps it is about the same either way for you?

I can't answer for dmfriedman or DLSIZE, the other Mileage Run moderators, but for me, generally I receive about 30-40 PM's per week which I try to respond to in a timely manner, as well as about 20-30 reported posts per week regarding the Mileage Run & Hotel Deals forums, that, on top of the daily moderation tasks associated with these two forums and the Budget Travel forum, as well as being a regular participant on FlyerTalk & the personal PM's I receive from FTer friends, and the fact that I travel for work about 1/2 the month, plus hold a ~50-60 hour a week job when I'm not traveling & still make time for my dog, friends, vacations, and personal things, it wouldn't be too much to additional time to take on PM'ing users. I'm in CLT right now, waiting for a meeting to start right now as I type this! :)

However, when we move, close, or edit threads we strive to place a note in the thread as to why action was taken. We can certainly PM users personally, but part of the reason why we post notes in the threads themselves is so that 1) Everyone can see why we are doing what we are doing and understand the reasoning behind it & 2) So that it doesn't appear that the moderators are doing something behind users backs (IIRC, there's been, over the past few years, a general complaint that mods need to be more open about their actions & do less things behind closed doors).

Gotta run now...my meeting is getting ready to start!

:D :D .... it wouldn't be too much to additional time to take on PM'ing users.Sound like you are overworked (and underpaid?) :cool:

I actually was thinking GEMAC's original point#2
(to just send the "offending" post a generic explanatory PM)
might save you considerable time compared to writing
the nice polite individual responses you are good at.

Anyway, it is your job, I am happy you are doing it,
and doing it well. :-: :-: :-:

Once the flow of deals picks up (lemex?)
the fluff will nicely roll off the page anyway. :D

I haven't really given much of these "request" posts much thought, but have to agree with fellow FT'ers that it appears a few people just don't seem to be paying attention to the general concept here.

In addition to re-wording the READ THIS sticky to plainly and succinctly spell out the limitation of posts in the title, could there also be a general agreement that all new members, and for that matter, existing members, have to read and agree to? Sort of like the License Agreements one has to accept when installing software, only with much less legal and technical mumbo jumbo. It could be just a couple of lines on each issue, no major production, just general idea and maybe examples.

That way, when a new member, or existing member, wants to post the next "Find me a hotel/airfare" request, they will be well informed.

I think some members are just not paying attention to the stickies, or don't bother reading it before posting... at least this will force them to recognize it.

If they violate that, maybe a warning by our hard working mods, then a time-out in the corner following a couple more infractions?

JM2C...

Just a reminder, one which I also added to the READ THIS sticky...

If you have an issue with a thread which you don't believe belongs in this forum, use the Report Post button found at the bottom left of each post. Do NOT make comments in the thread itself, or you may be subject to the administrative processes outlined in the FlyerTalk TOS.

Too many people lately have been adding useless posts such as "counting down until this gets closed..." which does not help the situation, and only serves to keep the threads visible at the top of the forum. Use the Report Post button, don't post on the thread, and allow the moderators to do what we can by making us aware of the problem threads.

Dave, a.k.a. dmfriedman
Moderator, Mileage Run / Hotel Deals

Having a history in Usenet, the repeating theme there was "show traffic, get group". Those request show a need and a will to post and besides, that forum is the only one where it seems fitting.

I have the same problem myself - I would like to send of a request for anyone who wants it to enter and it is not focused on one of the hotel chains but a more general one, and the 'region' is America.

Additionally, in subforums the traffic is not very hight but here. So where does somebody post those questions? To a forum which promises responses.

Btw, I own bhatnasx a big thank you for answering one of my mails where I asked 'is it okay to post this'. But (and this is not to reduce his clear effort in any way) I should have a forum I go into and ask.

The beauty of a forum: Not everybody needs to answer it.
Perhaps a system like the coupon forum which I am eagerly awaiting to show up once my 90 days are over?

btw "read this" does not envoke a good reaction for somebody who seeks answers. It is likely to be ignored.

"Answers to your questions" could be a much better title or at least motivate people to click on that thread. :)

If you don't think you need a single forum for those kinds of requests, sit back a moment, empty your brain of the relation you have with this forum and look at the forum list.

You are an intelligent person, you might want to travel somewhere. There is this forum of people who have a lot of information. You want to travel by plane and stay in a hotel.

Is there a basic forum where you can start of with your questions?
Is there a basic FAQ which helps you to determine which airline / network to choose?
etc.

Nicole

Having a history in Usenet, the repeating theme there was "show traffic, get group". Those request show a need and a will to post and besides, that forum is the only one where it seems fitting.

I have the same problem myself - I would like to send of a request for anyone who wants it to enter and it is not focused on one of the hotel chains but a more general one, and the 'region' is America.

Additionally, in subforums the traffic is not very hight but here. So where does somebody post those questions? To a forum which promises responses.

Btw, I own bhatnasx a big thank you for answering one of my mails where I asked 'is it okay to post this'. But (and this is not to reduce his clear effort in any way) I should have a forum I go into and ask.

The beauty of a forum: Not everybody needs to answer it.
Perhaps a system like the coupon forum which I am eagerly awaiting to show up once my 90 days are over?

btw "read this" does not envoke a good reaction for somebody who seeks answers. It is likely to be ignored.

"Answers to your questions" could be a much better title or at least motivate people to click on that thread. :)

If you don't think you need a single forum for those kinds of requests, sit back a moment, empty your brain of the relation you have with this forum and look at the forum list.

You are an intelligent person, you might want to travel somewhere. There is this forum of people who have a lot of information. You want to travel by plane and stay in a hotel.

Is there a basic forum where you can start of with your questions?
Is there a basic FAQ which helps you to determine which airline / network to choose?
etc.

Nicole
Hi, Nicole:

I'd say welcome to Flyertalk, but you've already been here awhile, and are getting to be an old-timer.

Everyone who come to flyertalk wants to travel somewhere by plane and stay in a hotel. The place for questions is Flyertalk. There is a forum on budget travel if that is what you are looking for. If someone has a question about a particular hotel, that is best addressed in the forum for that hotel chain.

But I agree with you that there should be a better,gentler facility for new users, who often stumble onto one of the existing forums, immediately start a thread with one of the same 5 questions that get answered there every week, and then get flamed. There is a forum for those with fewer than 100 posts, but it is kinda hard to find, as I recall. I think it is in Community, not in Mile & Points. Perhaps we need something like that featured prominently on the Miles & Points page, a New Users forum where we could put a New User's Primer, and new users could help each other learn basic Flyertalk etiquette and how Flyertalk works.

The problem that caused me to start this thread seems to have calmed down a lot since bhatnasx changed the title of the Read This! thread, so maybe we could let well enough alone, but I still like the idea of a New User's forum in Miles & Points. What do you (all of you) think? I don't know how to get a new forum started, do we have to go to Talkboard?

The problem seems to be inherent in the way people come to this site and what they expect to get out of it. So many first posts along the lines of which this thread is dedicated to doing away with are the result of a Google search for 'hotel deals'. The user is linked to FT and is looking for that quick fix. Who can blane them for that? It's what every one of us is looking for. The problem is there are posting guidelines, but no way to enforce those guidelines other that dealing with a post after it has been submitted. Even including a 'agree to these terms' window before a post can be submitted would likely not work all the time. Every person here is guilty of clicking the 'I agree' button without reading a single word of the T+C in all sorts of different situations.

So what's reasonable? The only way to truly keep the forums clean of misposts is to have a live human proofread every single thread before it can appear in FT. That's just not going to happen. Renaming the 'Read This Before Posting' thread to that name seens to have had a great deal of effect on the amount of clutter in the forum. Most forums have such a sticky, but the problem of getting the same question asked multiple times seems to be a problem that just will not go away.

Instead of Hotel Deals, how about
Discovered Hotel Bargains (No Pricing Requests Allowed)
or something of that kind.