CALGARY, ALBERTA--(CCNMatthews - March 8, 2006) - WestJet (TSX:WJA - News) today announced numerous schedule enhancements, including new seasonal non-stop flights and increased frequencies between cities across Canada.
WestJet will introduce new and return seasonal non-stop service between
the following cities:

- Edmonton and Halifax, daily non-stop service (seasonal, June 24 to
October 28, 2006)
- Toronto and Abbotsford, daily non-stop service (seasonal, June 13 to
October 28, 2006)
- Vancouver and Ottawa, daily non-stop service (beginning August 22,
2006)

With effective dates beginning June 13 through to August 22, 2006,
WestJet will also increase the number of departures between cities in
its existing route network as follows:

- Service between Toronto and Calgary increases to eight non-stop
flights per day
- Service between Vancouver and Edmonton increases to seven non-stop
flights per day
- Service between Edmonton and Winnipeg increases to three non-stop
flights per day
- Service between Edmonton and Victoria increases to three non-stop
flights per day
- Service between Edmonton and Hamilton increases to two non-stop
flight per day

Sean Durfy, WestJet's Executive Vice-President of Marketing and Sales, commented today: "As WestJet marks our 10th anniversary, we are pleased to offer our guests even more daily non-stop flights across Canada. These additional non-stop flights mean more flexibility for our guests travelling across Canada for business, pleasure or both.

"WestJet's largely celebrated 10th anniversary was an opportunity for our guests and our people to reflect on past successes, and I'm confident the future will be even more exciting. With our roomy leather seats, live seatback television and industry-leading customer service, WestJet offers the best guest experience in the Canadian airline industry."

With these additions and further enhancements to its 2006 summer schedule, WestJet will operate approximately 2,122 weekly departures.

Marking its tenth anniversary this year, WestJet is Canada's leading low-fare airline offering scheduled service throughout its 33-city North American network. Named Canada's most respected corporation for customer service in 2005, WestJet pioneered low-cost high-value flying in Canada. With increased legroom and leather seats on its modern fleet of Boeing Next-Generation 737 aircraft, and live seatback television provided by Bell ExpressVu on the majority of its fleet, WestJet strives to be the number one choice for travellers.


Contact:
Media Relations
WestJet
Gillian Bentley
(403) 444-2615
Website: www.westjet.com

http://biz.yahoo.com/ccn/060309/200603090314880001.html?.v=1

I think all that extra capacity is going to haunt WS as AC has also ramped up their summer schedule and will have more E75's and E90's available by then.

Ac will be even more competitive with right sized aircraft, the very succesful pass program, and possibly some Aeroplan bonus campaigns.

I think all that extra capacity is going to haunt WS as AC has also ramped up their summer schedule and will have more E75's and E90's available by then.

Ac will be even more competitive with right sized aircraft, the very succesful pass program, and possibly some Aeroplan bonus campaigns.

AC is still getting tarred and feathered in YEG and it will continue no matter how much lipstick they put on the pig. :p

1) What, if anything, gets cut with these new flights, in addition to the ones announced as "Spring Enhancements"?

2) I don't think filling these flights will be a problem for WS during peak summer months.... it's what happens in October->May that is cause for concern.

If WS breakeven is 72%, thats 97 seats out of 136. If AC breakeven is 80%, thats 74 seats out of 93.

I would think with strong pass program and loyalty from business (the ones traveling during Oct-May) Air Canada is in a better position over the whole year.

1) What, if anything, gets cut with these new flights, in addition to the ones announced as "Spring Enhancements"?

2) I don't think filling these flights will be a problem for WS during peak summer months.... it's what happens in October->May that is cause for concern.

1) The additions are from new aircraft deliveries, primarily 737-600's and maybe a bit of extra lift from winter charter's coming to an end but that might be only an aircraft or two.

2) I don't think its much cause for concern at this point in time. As long as oil remains stable our strategy seems to be working thus far.

AC is still getting tarred and feathered in YEG and it will continue no matter how much lipstick they put on the pig. :p

Obviously the people who fly don't seem to think so.......AC's loads are way way up in YEG. ;)

A couple of weeks too late for the YHZ flights as I am going mid June :(

1) What, if anything, gets cut with these new flights, in addition to the ones announced as "Spring Enhancements"?

2) I don't think filling these flights will be a problem for WS during peak summer months.... it's what happens in October->May that is cause for concern.

If WS breakeven is 72%, thats 97 seats out of 136. If AC breakeven is 80%, thats 74 seats out of 93.

I would think with strong pass program and loyalty from business (the ones traveling during Oct-May) Air Canada is in a better position over the whole year.

Just like AC has been in a better position since the third quarter of 2005 after Jetsgo left the marketplace, and their margins are about 1/4 of WJA's over the period.

With the unit costs of those 93 seaters, at these fares, AC's belf is not 80%.

That reminds me of all the people who were convinced the CRJ's belf was 13 people when those uberjets were introduced 10 years ago. Now, you can't give away a CRJ-200.

What makes you think that if 80 people are booked on a 140 seat A320 that the same 80 people will book on a 93 seat EMB180?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. AC switched from 95 seat DC9's to new 50 seat RJ's. Where did all the passengers go? CP switched from 737-200's to 70 seat F28's. Where did all the passengers go? Naturally, all this will change with those high unit cost EMB180's.

I have to congratulate ACE on their latest efforts to erode their yields, given AC's 17.4 cent casm last quarter, and Jazz's 26 cent casm.

The introduction of the "Oil Express Pass" is a classic. The pricing allows for pretty much walk up fares from YMM-YYT for $367 net to ACE, neatly eroding a $1,410.36 fare into a $734.23 fare.

Given the total mileage of AC's best routing of 2,753 miles over 3 sectors, (YMM-YYZ-YHZ-YYT), that provides a total yield per asm of, at best, including cargo, of 10.5 cents a mile.

So, costs around 13 cents a mile, revenue of 10.5 cents a mile. Once again, AC is crowing about initiatives that cause them to lose money on every seat they operate

There's an old saying in this business. You are only as smart as your dumbest competitor.

:D

Obviously the people who fly don't seem to think so.......AC's loads are way way up in YEG. ;)

....and loads are indicative of what, Parnel? The ability to sell seats at prices that result in operating margins in the negative single digits?

:D

That reminds me of all the people who were convinced the CRJ's belf was 13 people when those uberjets were introduced 10 years ago. Now, you can't give away a CRJ-200.

What makes you think that if 80 people are booked on a 140 seat A320 that the same 80 people will book on a 93 seat EMB180?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. AC switched from 95 seat DC9's to new 50 seat RJ's. Where did all the passengers go? CP switched from 737-200's to 70 seat F28's. Where did all the passengers go? Naturally, all this will change with those high unit cost EMB180's.

What an incredibly ignorant statement.

Flying on an EMB190 or even a 175 has nothing in common with the experience aboard a CRJ-200.

Equating an EMB190 to a CRJ-200 is akin to comparing 24 to Train 48.

Simon

What an incredibly ignorant statement.

Flying on an EMB190 or even a 175 has nothing in common with the experience aboard a CRJ-200.

Equating an EMB190 to a CRJ-200 is akin to comparing 24 to Train 48.

Simon

Ahh... the benefits of 20/20 hindsight. The Uber jets were touted as the next great thing 10 years ago. The argument was that if 60 people flew on the 94 seat DC9's, the 50 seaters would fly virtually full. Surprise surprise. The uberjets flew 70% full. There's a reason why, but I won't bore you with it. Lets say it has something to do with the fundamental way RMS systems are written.

The problem with the E180's in Canada is that it's difficult to get heavy duty utilization out of them on their target missions.

I have no issues with them on stage lengths under 750 miles, but it won't take long for people to realize that Airbus narrow body or Boeing NG is the minimum sized aircraft you want to be on on anything over 3 hours. The Boeing 737-600 is a very flexible, passenger friendly 117 seat aircraft. Another hint for you.

Flying aircraft profitably 9 hours a day is easy, (except, apparently, for ACE in the winter months). However, you need to get much more than 9 hours a day out of new aircraft at these sorts of prices and at todays fares.

Boeing / Airbus can operate 13-14 hours a day comfortably. There's no way EMB's can do that. They just don't work well on 4-5 hour sectors.

Then there's the uncertainty of operating a new airframe, and longterm reliability issues. Big unknowns.

That's why WJ declined the opportunity to order them. That, and the fact that at WJ's cost structure, they cost about 13-17% more per asm to operate than a -600. Who knows how much more it'll cost ACE at their cost structure.

;)

You're going back to costs, whereas you brought up what passengers would like to do.

Don't keep changing tact midstream to bring everything back to cost. We wouldn't want anyone here labelling you a one-trick pony.

I'm talking about passengers.

From a passenger perspective, the EMBs have business class. WS does not. CRJs do not.

From a passenger perspective, you can stand up on an EMB. CRJs you cannot without whacking your head.

From a passenger perspective, you don't have to tilt your head at a 45 degree angle when sitting in the window seat. On a CRJ you do.

From a passenger perspective, the air vent actually aims at your face. CRJ designers expressed surprise at YYZ a couple of years ago that anyone would need to do that.

From a passenger perspective, the EMBs can handle roll-aboards. CRJs cannot.

From a passenger perspective, EMBs ride somewhat rough in turbulence, CRJs are nasty, and 737s are wobbly at all times, so call that one even.

Need I go on. Passenger experience on EMB >> Passenger experience on CRJ.

....and loads are indicative of what, Parnel? The ability to sell seats at prices that result in operating margins in the negative single digits?

:D

I again ask you...whay did ACE make the same money per revenue dollar as WS if their costs are so high. No answer is ever forthcoming.

You're going back to costs, whereas you brought up what passengers would like to do.

Don't keep changing tact midstream to bring everything back to cost. We wouldn't want anyone here labelling you a one-trick pony.

I'm talking about passengers.

From a passenger perspective, the EMBs have business class. WS does not. CRJs do not.

From a passenger perspective, you can stand up on an EMB. CRJs you cannot without whacking your head.

From a passenger perspective, you don't have to tilt your head at a 45 degree angle when sitting in the window seat. On a CRJ you do.

From a passenger perspective, the air vent actually aims at your face. CRJ designers expressed surprise at YYZ a couple of years ago that anyone would need to do that.

From a passenger perspective, the EMBs can handle roll-aboards. CRJs cannot.

From a passenger perspective, EMBs ride somewhat rough in turbulence, CRJs are nasty, and 737s are wobbly at all times, so call that one even.

Need I go on. Passenger experience on EMB >> Passenger experience on CRJ.

The 737ng's have been woefully inadequate for WJA, SWA, GOL, Ryanair etc etc....

I'm sure the 747-400 would be more comfortable for domestic flying as well, but the idea here is to make money doing it.

I again ask you...whay did ACE make the same money per revenue dollar as WS if their costs are so high. No answer is ever forthcoming.

Sorry. I generally ignore your nonsense.

ACE made the same money per revenue dollar......what are you drifting on about now?

ACE op margins including interest in the 6 months ended Dec 31 2005 were less than 3%. WJ's were over 8%. This is the period where neither carriers revenues were impacted by Jetsgo.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/investor/documents/JPMorgan-06.pdf

Don't believe me? Review slide #27 ;)

[QUOTE]Sorry. I generally ignore your nonsense.


Please don't hurt my feelings and my fun :D
ACE made the same money per revenue dollar......what are you drifting on about now?

ACE op margins including interest in the 6 months ended Dec 31 2005 were less than 3%. WJ's were over 8%. This is the period where neither carriers revenues were impacted by Jetsgo.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/investor/documents/JPMorgan-06.pdf

Don't believe me? Review slide #27 ;)


Let's do 12 months oh wonderful numbers genius......All Companies are rated on 12 month results...not the six best and not January, April, May, June, July, and September or whatever combo you might choose.

[QUOTE=Coffeebean]


Please don't hurt my feelings and my fun :D



Let's do 12 months oh wonderful numbers genius......All Companies are rated on 12 month results...not the six best and not January, April, May, June, July, and September or whatever combo you might choose.

Fair enough. WJ's op margin including interest expense for the year was 4.4%. ACE's was 1.4%. ;)

A better indication of the prospects for both airlines would be what they did after neither had to deal with Jetsgone's $99 trans con walk up fares. That's in the past 6 months.

Either way, WJ's margins are dramatically higher than ACE's margins.

;)

..The Boeing 737-600 is a very flexible, passenger friendly 117 seat aircraft. Another hint for you...


Really. Then why have they been such slow sellers?

[QUOTE=parnel]

[QUOTE]Fair enough. WJ's op margin including interest expense for the year was 4.4%. ACE's was 1.4%. ;)

WS had roughly $1B in revs and $24MM net profit while Ac had roughly $9.5B and $258MM in net profits. Again you try and confuse reality with phony numbers.

A better indication of the prospects for both airlines would be what they did after neither had to deal with Jetsgone's $99 trans con walk up fares. That's in the past 6 months.

yada yada yada :rolleyes:


Either way, WJ's margins are dramatically higher than ACE's margins.

yea sure :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The 737ng's have been woefully inadequate for WJA, SWA, GOL, Ryanair etc etc....

And that's why Ryanair ordered a total of 239 738NGs? Might I add (although I may be off by one or two), 96 have been delivered and 143 remain. So, how woefully inadequate for Ryanair are they? Could you at least qualify your statement a bit?

Note the sarcasm, YOWKid. ;)

[QUOTE=Coffeebean][QUOTE=parnel]



WS had roughly $1B in revs and $24MM net profit while Ac had roughly $9.5B and $258MM in net profits. Again you try and confuse reality with phony numbers.



yada yada yada :rolleyes:




yea sure :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Operating margin including interest.

ACE $137m / $9.8b revenues = 1.4%
WJA $61m/ $1.4b revenues = 4.4%

All the stuff below the line is one time gain / one time loss.

Just the facts, Parnel.... ;)

Not all of these additions are in the system. The YEG-YHM and the extra YYC-YYZ are not loaded. Why issue a press release without following through?

[QUOTE=parnel][QUOTE=Coffeebean]


Operating margin including interest.

ACE $137m / $9.8b revenues = 1.4%
WJA $61m/ $1.4b revenues = 4.4%

All the stuff below the line is one time gain / one time loss.

Just the facts, Parnel.... ;)

Narrowing the field of play again to suit.....you never ever get the full picture nor give it out. its obvious you don't comprehendor don't want to.

Not all of these additions are in the system. The YEG-YHM and the extra YYC-YYZ are not loaded. Why issue a press release without following through?

Because AC was way ahead of them and they had to make something up quickly.

Not all of these additions are in the system. The YEG-YHM and the extra YYC-YYZ are not loaded. Why issue a press release without following through?

They are. I just found both Aug15/16th.

d

The new flights were in the West Jet web booking engine the day of the announcement and appeared in the "Check Schedules" feature the day after. Perhaps they haven't been loaded into the other distribution networks yet?

[QUOTE=Coffeebean][QUOTE=parnel]

Narrowing the field of play again to suit.....you never ever get the full picture nor give it out. its obvious you don't comprehendor don't want to.

If you consistently make $150K a year, but sold your house, moved to the country and pocketed a one time payoff of $350K, would a bank look at your ongoing income as $150K or $150K with a one time $350K cash infusion?

85% of ACE's revenues come from air transportation services. It's a marginal business for them, but it is suplanted by various one time cash infusions from the sale of assets.

What happens when the assets are gone? ;)

[QUOTE=parnel][QUOTE=Coffeebean]

[QUOTE]If you consistently make $150K a year, but sold your house, moved to the country and pocketed a one time payoff of $350K, would a bank look at your ongoing income as $150K or $150K with a one time $350K cash infusion?

Wrong again,ACE renovated the house and unlocked new values because the house now has much more curb appeal.

85% of ACE's revenues come from air transportation services. It's a marginal business for them, but it is suplanted by various one time cash infusions from the sale of assets.

Like making $30 million on Aeroplan......WetJet doesn't make 30 Million from flying airplanes...as an investor guess where I'm going

What happens when the assets are gone? ;)
selling 20% only unlocks the value added features...you can't or won't understand that.

Some of these flights don't start until August, like the 5pm YEG-YHM. That flight rocks for me as it works great to get into Niagara at a decent hour on a Friday night :) Shame that my leisure flights are pretty much booked for the rest of the year!

I will pronounce this as being the case unless someone wants to correct me ;)

Looking at the Week of August 27 when their extra service is fully ramped up Westjet will have 36 weekday flights to 13 destinations, everyone on a brand new 737 aircraft. I think that is quite impressive and well done. There are also the 2 weekly LAS flights on top of this. Details of weekday service:

YXX - 1
YYC - 7
YMM - 2
YQU - 2
YHZ - 1
YHM - 2
YLW - 3
YQR - 1
YXE - 1
YYZ - 4
YVR - 7
YYJ - 2
YWG - 3
LAS - 2 weekly

The big weakness in their schedule is the total inability to connect past Toronto on a late afternoon flight. The only one that comes close is a YOW connection leaving just before 4pm. Their red-eye option is also horrid.

This sudden flurry of Edmonton announcements seems to give rise to speculation that Westjet has begun a new phase of develpment. Although we in Edmonton are most fond of criticising the "other fellow" for lack of service, I believe that it is Westjet who has not added any notable Edmonton flights for three years now. In fact, they discontinued the Ottawa service in this period.

This, of course, was the result of the projects to expand in Eastern Canada, and, more recently, in flights to the U.S. Perhaps we are witnessing a return to a western Canadian strategy.

Mind you, the main driver here must be the growth in Edmonton traffic. The airport has been reporting consistent ten and eleven per cent year over year traffic increases for several years. This is pretty good considering there has not been a corresponding growth in capacity. Without these new flights, I cannot see traffic increasing another eleven per cent. There are not enough airplanes.

We will have to see what happens. Westjet will have perhaps twenty per cent more capacity this year. They may or may not feel inclined to put them on Edmonton routes permanently. The other fellow will have perhaps five per cent more capacity, and they have lots of other places to put it. That might leave the americans to soak up any extra traffic! I don't know as Wetsjet wants to try transborder out of Edmonton. They probably have to work bugs out of their existing transborder business.

Business is booming these days. There is a shortage of airplanes. The companies will all be second-guessed to death however they decide to allocate their capacities.

[QUOTE]This sudden flurry of Edmonton announcements seems to give rise to speculation that Westjet has begun a new phase of develpment. Although we in Edmonton are most fond of criticising the "other fellow" for lack of service, I believe that it is Westjet who has not added any notable Edmonton flights for three years now. In fact, they discontinued the Ottawa service in this period.


I think Wetjet has woken up and realized that AC and Jazz have seriously increased capacity in YEG over the last while. My experience in YEG, which is not every day, sees many more people at AC counters and the screens show more AC/Jazz flights than Wetjet ones. With AC also expanding their direct to US flights that will allow YEG to grow more cnx traffic away from YYC.

This, of course, was the result of the projects to expand in Eastern Canada, and, more recently, in flights to the U.S. Perhaps we are witnessing a return to a western Canadian strategy.

The Wetjet US strategy has failed miserably to date so its back to basics I think.


Mind you, the main driver here must be the growth in Edmonton traffic. The airport has been reporting consistent ten and eleven per cent year over year traffic increases for several years.

It is quite noticeable. I also note that AC's flights to YYZ in particular are definitely more full than in previous years and a concierge recently told me they almost all go out very full.

This is pretty good considering there has not been a corresponding growth in capacity.

I think there has been a growth in capacity.
I don't know as Wetsjet wants to try transborder out of Edmonton. They probably have to work bugs out of their existing transborder business.

Bugs?? I think its more like cockroaches than bugs. Their initial strategy failed miserably when they woke up and realized that Americans said "West who?"

Business is booming these days.

Absolutely no doubt about that.
There is a shortage of airplanes.

That is quickly changing also at least for AC and to some degree Wetjet

The companies will all be second-guessed to death

We have a guy on FT named PE who is an expert at that....ask him about CO loyalty :D

parnel there is no doubt that when you look at Jazz and Air Canada that they have more aircraft movements than Westjet but the majority are the patented "tarmac to tarmac" variety. I for one would pick a jet anyday. As for Air Canada being recognized in the US, certainly more than Westjet due to their link with UA but I'd bet some of the people on AC thought they would be on UA due to codeshare and have never heard of AC. The transborder issue is indeed a tough one for Westjet. If they can only maintain one consistent daily flight to the USA ex-YYC then they do indeed have a VERY BIG problem there. Hopefully the alliance moves will help in this regard.

The big weakness in their schedule is the total inability to connect past Toronto on a late afternoon flight. The only one that comes close is a YOW connection leaving just before 4pm. Their red-eye option is also horrid.
WS's YOW/YUL-YYZ schedule is still quite pathetic. An evening flight between YYZ and YOW would be great for connections, as would an afternoon flight between YOW and YYZ (there is nothing between 10am and 6pm right now). The existing flights are also the first ones to get delayed or cancelled when things get backed up at YYZ, making them unreliable.

Even if WS matched AC on frequency, 22 YUL/YYZ and 17 YOW/YYZ a day, points and AC out east are supreme and WestJet would get smashed. Look at Canadian.

I don't belive for a second that YYZ-YOW/YUL is anywhere near breakeven for WS.

The flights times are poor, and in some cases, don't provide good connections from the west.

It's a money pit - but ego has taken over at WS and they must provide triangle service to get the business community to fly them. Whatever. I think that the best play for the east would be

A) more non-stops out of YOW/YUL to the west, avoiding the YYZ thing altogether

B) flights from YOW/YUL are used to feed YYZ and onwards to US, East / West. If the flights timed out to work for the YOW/YUL-YYZ flyer, all the better - but this would be bonus and extra.

A) more non-stops out of YOW/YUL to the west, avoiding the YYZ thing altogether


I suggested they look at this or a couple later flights ex-YYZ to YOW/YUL. The latter option would be potentially better for WS as it would allow them to better fill the eastern flights. For example, they just added a 4pm YEG-YYZ arriving at 9:41pm. A 10:30pm flight would potentially work if they fed these from YEG/YYC/YVR/YWG and maybe YQT. It could get a few point to point fares too. Even YYC does not have good late afternoon options but at least they have the redeye as an option.

I personally think that you won't see any growth in the triangle until YOW and/or YUL get service to the Maritimes. Nice to see discussion and not arguing for once. ^

I'm glad to see WestJet is doing this, but I'm disappointed that they didn't add atleast 1 more destination...

I'd rather see them expanding than building up in Canada alone. yes, it's a great idea, but come on... Why not add the destination Cancun? They do it with Air Transat... Why not by themselves? :confused:

parnel there is no doubt that when you look at Jazz and Air Canada that they have more aircraft movements than Westjet but the majority are the patented "tarmac to tarmac" variety. I for one would pick a jet anyday...

It will be interesting to see how the WS model of flying relatively large jets to small destinations holds up in the face of rising fuel prices. Despte CB's protestations it may turn out that the old hub/spoke model of turboprops feeding jet routes may end up being the more sustainable one. Of course, this will also mean that AC/Jazz has overinvested in RJ's.

It will be interesting to see how the WS model of flying relatively large jets to small destinations holds up in the face of rising fuel prices. Despte CB's protestations it may turn out that the old hub/spoke model of turboprops feeding jet routes may end up being the more sustainable one. Of course, this will also mean that AC/Jazz has overinvested in RJ's.

There are smaller centers looking for service that WS could never get into with 737's and make money. YSB is one of them. AC/Jazz appears to make a ton of money flying up there with Dash 8's and even if they step it up to a 50 seater CRJ they will do just fine.

It will be interesting to see how the WS model of flying relatively large jets to small destinations holds up in the face of rising fuel prices. Despte CB's protestations it may turn out that the old hub/spoke model of turboprops feeding jet routes may end up being the more sustainable one. Of course, this will also mean that AC/Jazz has overinvested in RJ's.


They flew to YAM for a brief period but I believe they couldn't sustain it as the aircraft was too big for the route.

Part of the problem with WS's YAM/YSB service was they flew into YHM, which had very few connections east at the time. They couldn't fill a 737 with passengers flying to Hamilton. I wonder if they could fill a 737 with passengers flying to Toronto, especially when/if they start transfering luggage to other airlines.

The wonderful weather in YSB/YAM helped too. I think WS41/102 (the flight if I remember) overflew to YHM/YWG all the time.... very unreliable service - and it wasn't even daily so misses cost the passengers a lot of time.

The summer enhanced schedule must be suffering from some lack of early sales as I just received a May/June seat sale email with fares listed below.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
From: YVR YYC YEG YYZ YUL
To Las Vegas $129* $139* $149* $139* $149*
To Orlando $289* $215* $279 * $149* $179*
To Honolulu $199** $249** $249** $419* $452*
To Maui $199** $249** $249 **

Didn't some WJA lurker with the initials CB say AC was giving HNL away at this price and they now are offering it two months out on a seat sale no less.

The summer enhanced schedule must be suffering from some lack of early sales as I just received a May/June seat sale email with fares listed below.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
From: YVR YYC YEG YYZ YUL
To Las Vegas $129* $139* $149* $139* $149*
To Orlando $289* $215* $279 * $149* $179*
To Honolulu $199** $249** $249** $419* $452*
To Maui $199** $249** $249 **

Didn't some WJA lurker with the initials CB say AC was giving HNL away at this price and they now are offering it two months out on a seat sale no less.

AC YVR-HNL is $199 walk up and has been for pretty much 2 weeks.

The P & L on this route must be brutal, given the casm on the flight.

;)

AC YVR-HNL is $199 walk up and has been for pretty much 2 weeks.

The P & L on this route must be brutal, given the casm on the flight.

;)

I find it ironic that you are so fixated on CASM given WS's purchase of the 737-600 which is hardly impressive in that regard :rolleyes:

AC YVR-HNL is $199 walk up and has been for pretty much 2 weeks.

The P & L on this route must be brutal, given the casm on the flight.

;)

Of course you didn't attempt to asm/casm/prasm or spasm the return flts after the 1st of April when the snowbirds start returning......I saw $536 o/w

I've got a great idea. Why don't we consolidate all the CASM/SPASM stuff in the HNL thread so the rest of us don't have to sift through it in every single thread????

I personally think that you won't see any growth in the triangle until YOW and/or YUL get service to the Maritimes. Nice to see discussion and not arguing for once. ^

That may well correlate with an event that has just come to an end.

We'll see.

What event is that?

I find it ironic that you are so fixated on CASM given WS's purchase of the 737-600 which is hardly impressive in that regard :rolleyes:

Really. ;)

It's true its slightly higher than the -700, and the -700 is higher than the -800, but it's still miles and miles below the E180's.

119 seats, 6 hours cruise at FL41 sipping gas all the way at .76.

Then there is the other very flexible aspect to this aircraft that makes it very interesting to operators in thin markets.

There. I think that's the 3rd time I've hinted at it.

;)

Of course you didn't attempt to asm/casm/prasm or spasm the return flts after the 1st of April when the snowbirds start returning......I saw $536 o/w

Of course you didn't attempt to asm/casm/prasm or spasm the return flts after the 1st of April when the snowbirds start returning......I saw $536 o/w

Indeed. And WJ is getting $461 us / $536 ow over the same period, but their outbounds are sold out with the last outbound fare I saw in the c$400+ range.

So, to review: AC wide open on the 23rd and Friday 24th with $199 fares and $536 coming back in early April. WJ sold out on Friday 24th with $400+ outbound the last known fare, $536 on Thurs, and selling $536 coming back in early April.

Where's the revenue premium again? ;)

And I didn't mention AC's patented YEG-YYZ-YVR-HNL flight on Friday because AC blocked their YEG-HNL linear route by chasing market share on YEG-YVR . They can't feed any of their YVR network with high yield traffic anywhere out of YEG, YQU and YMM on the biggest travel day since the xmas season. Is that good revenue management or good marketshare management?

AC114 06:50 12:34 320 0 Toronto
(YYZ) - - - - $ 2964
AC109 14:15 16:22 763 0 Vancouver
(YVR)
AC033 18:05 22:15 763 0

It must be all that high yield connecting traffic that makes YVR-HNL a winner, even though AC is feeding its one 767-300 on HNL-SYD with 3 767's from YVR-HNL. Please explain how that works. ;) Does the seafood stay on the ramp in HNL until there's space for it?

Maybe it's domestic feed that allows ACE to rake the cash in with $199 walk up fares on 2,705 mile sectors.

Maybe like AC147 tomorrow, YYZ-YVR priced at $421.

Or if you fly YYZ-HNL, and take AC147 and connect to AC45, it's a fare of $633. There's that fare premium. $12. That'll keep shareholders happy. Meanwhile, WJA is getting $563 on the O & D leg.

ACE has way too much capacity in this market this winter. They are empty, WJ appears full. Who's hurting? The guy with 12 cent casm and $199 fares, or the guy with 8 cent casm and $199 fares?

I wouldn't even want to guess how many highly profitable international markets are being wasted to subsidize AC's desire to maintain share in a local market they are losing their shirt on.

This movie never changes, but then again, look at the Directors and Producers. It's the same cast that ran AC into the ground from 1996 to 2003. Why would anyone excpect it to change? ;)

What event is that?

A suspension that came to an end.

There. I think that's the 3rd time I've hinted at it.


Funny, this seems a whole lot like:


For some reason, you weren't prepared to share details of this amazing little unit with fellow road warriors. I wonder why that is? A bit of a superiority complex? The "I've got something you don't have" complex?


-"little unit"
+"fact about 737-600s"

Funny how that works.

Simon

Really. ;)

It's true its slightly higher than the -700, and the -700 is higher than the -800, but it's still miles and miles below the E180's.

119 seats, 6 hours cruise at FL41 sipping gas all the way at .76.

Then there is the other very flexible aspect to this aircraft that makes it very interesting to operators in thin markets.

There. I think that's the 3rd time I've hinted at it.

;)

I guess that's why the 600 has been such a runaway success for Boeing. Hinted, at what? That WS is one of the few customers for this aircraft? That AC Embraer's are having teething problems, hence your 180 moniker? Its odd that you insist the Boeing's NGs are the bestest aircraft ever, yet it was outsold almost 2-1 last year by the A320 family.

[QUOTE]Indeed. And WJ is getting $461 us / $536 ow over the same period, but their outbounds are sold out with the last outbound fare I saw in the c$400+ range.

For one day on a Saturday...the rest were $199...such BS you try here.



Where's the revenue premium again? ;)

Maybe it's on AC YYZ/FRA where reports are that J is is sold out most week days and Sundays or other similar premium routes. The market moves around and you know it. Routes are deemed profitable on longer terms than one or two weeks.
AC is able to respond very well to it with different aircraft each market niche, with bulk passes,with a FF program, with lounges at key arports,with J class and within a year or so a fleet younger than WJA. Why is your stock so stagnant if asm/casm/prasm amd spasm are so good?


This movie never changes, but then again, look at the Directors and Producers. It's the same cast that ran AC into the ground from 1996 to 2003. Why would anyone excpect it to change? ;)

Wonderful intelligence gathering you have;guess you don't read the announcements part of AC's internal web site. The entire exec suite except for the CEO has been revamped with new management brought in from some major palyers both legacy and LCC's.

11111

ACE has way too much capacity in this market this winter. They are empty, WJ appears full...

WJ appears full? Why try to prolong the fiction that you don't know their loads? Give us the figures.

How much cargo is WS picking up in HNL I wonder...

"AC empty WJ full" AC YVR /HNL seats sold... 570/23Mar 537/24Mar . How many has WJ sold?

Now now acplt....you have to give him the asm/casm/prasm and spasm of each flight or he gets lost in the big picture :D

My guess is that he's a route planner/controller or revenue planner.......he knows squat about anything else.

Funny, this seems a whole lot like:



-"little unit"
+"fact about 737-600s"

Funny how that works.

Simon

Slingbox is not confidential. Arrangements with airframers are.

I guess that's why the 600 has been such a runaway success for Boeing. Hinted, at what? That WS is one of the few customers for this aircraft? That AC Embraer's are having teething problems, hence your 180 moniker? Its odd that you insist the Boeing's NGs are the bestest aircraft ever, yet it was outsold almost 2-1 last year by the A320 family.


Quick: Name an LCC operating Airbus that made money last quarter. EasyJet? JetBlue? Fronteir

The -600 works brilliantly in thin markets where aircraft availability for non-sched operations is required. Canada, by definition, is a thin market, and in many respects, two markets, east and west, connected in the middle. To make it work, you've got to be able to get long haul utilization out of the fleet for redeyes and charter ops. Few other countries have these characteristics and thusly, the -600 may not work for them.

Add in the price point of the -600, allowing its economics to blow away the 90-100 seat market with a 119 seat aircraft, together with some other characteristics and virtually 100% fleet commonality , at least for WJA, the -600 is the optimum choice.

Southwest doesn't fly redeyes, nor do they do any charter work. For that reason, no -600's.

Ryanair operates in Europe with 400m people to play with. Thin markets? I don't think so.

Gol has South America as it's sandbox. Last time I checked, half of the geography of South America is in Brazil. Other than Lan Chile, who else is in a position to dominate South America.

Virgin Blue has to deal with heavy slot issues at SYD. If you think YYZ dominates O & D stats in Canada, take a look at SYD. You want higher capacity on these routes. Charter from Australia with 5-6 range outside of normal sched routes? Where? Canada has Mexico and the Caribbean to play in.

Take a look at geography, population and aircraft economics. The -600 works brilliantly in Canada.

;)

[QUOTE=Coffeebean]

For one day on a Saturday...the rest were $199...such BS you try here.





Maybe it's on AC YYZ/FRA where reports are that J is is sold out most week days and Sundays or other similar premium routes. The market moves around and you know it. Routes are deemed profitable on longer terms than one or two weeks.
AC is able to respond very well to it with different aircraft each market niche, with bulk passes,with a FF program, with lounges at key arports,with J class and within a year or so a fleet younger than WJA. Why is your stock so stagnant if asm/casm/prasm amd spasm are so good?




Wonderful intelligence gathering you have;guess you don't read the announcements part of AC's internal web site. The entire exec suite except for the CEO has been revamped with new management brought in from some major palyers both legacy and LCC's.

..and Southwest is desperate to copy everything they can from Frontier...yea sure......Menke left a sinking ship....

"AC empty WJ full" AC YVR /HNL seats sold... 570/23Mar 537/24Mar . How many has WJ sold?

Apparently loads aren't confidential then....... ;)

Apparently loads aren't confidential then....... ;)

Yields are

Slingbox is not confidential. Arrangements with airframers are.

And as a "simple working stiff" with no connection to WS, you would know this how?

The website apparently is not confidential as it "appeared in public documents". Care to name it yet?

Vonage Canada knocked Telus out of business yet? :D

And as a "simple working stiff" with no connection to WS, you would know this how?

The website apparently is not confidential as it "appeared in public documents". Care to name it yet?

Vonage Canada knocked Telus out of business yet? :D


I'll bet on a well capitalized, lowest cost producer of a commodity any day over legacy, high cost producers.

The little guys will run between the legs of the big guys and cause them fits. Not sure who the winners will be, but the big boys will be very badly mauled, just like ACE was from 96-2003, and from where I sit, it looks like its started all over again.

I don't know what yields look like to HNL, but when all fares have been pegged at $199 for about a month, including walkups, you know the yields blow. They have only been get fares above that level on the 31st, 1st and 2nd. Meanwhile, they get $222 for a YVR-YYC fare. I wonder if route managers have figured out which one has a better chance of making money, the route with 7 cent yield of the one with 52 cent yield. ;)

Maybe its the same one from which ACPLT reported yesterday that reported: AC YVR /HNL seats sold... 570/23Mar 537/24Mar ;)

Maybe it is. If so, why don't you name it?


For some reason, you weren't prepared to share details of this amazing little unit with fellow road warriors. I wonder why that is? A bit of a superiority complex? The "I've got something you don't have" complex?


-little unit
+website

And you're right. Verizon Wireless, Comcast, Telus and Rogers are having fits worried about what Vonage is going to do to them.

What happened to all the CLECs? They were the lowest cost producers of local telephone service. Where are Rhythms? Allegiance? Teligent? Winstar? Gone, gone, gone, gone.

Stay in your WS job ;)