http://www.edmontonsun.com/Business/News/2006/02/17/1447929-sun.html

CALGARY -- The Canadian Union of Public Employees is trying to make an impressive landing with WestJet workers in a move that could ultimately see flight attendants unionized.

And the move does not seem to sit well with the company, said CUPE's national representative Rob Limongelli.

What I find interesting is the response on other forums regarding this issue. Almost universally the AC crowd likes to rub in the fact that some FA's are trying to unionise. Why? Because they are concerned with the welfare of WestJet's FA's? Ya right. It's because they know how counterproductive they have been for them and hope WestJet may suffer also to help gain a little competitive edge.

Desperate.

What I find interesting is the response on other forums regarding this issue. Almost universally the AC crowd likes to rub in the fact that some FA's are trying to unionise. Why? Because they are concerned with the welfare of WestJet's FA's? Ya right. It's because they know how counterproductive they have been for them and hope WestJet may suffer also to help gain a little competitive edge.

Desperate.


This is the umpteenth time CUPE's tried this.

If CUPE want's to contact WJ employees, get a mailing address and put a stamp on it. Otherwise, it's junk mail, on WJ property, placed by a trespasser.

Something like most of your posts here.

Ouch...

What I find interesting is the response on other forums regarding this issue. Almost universally the AC crowd likes to rub in the fact that some FA's are trying to unionise. Why? Because they are concerned with the welfare of WestJet's FA's? Ya right. It's because they know how counterproductive they have been for them and hope WestJet may suffer also to help gain a little competitive edge.

Desperate.
Not necessarily. Maybe they see something they don't like... Maybe they want some union protection. Not saying that I endorse unions, but there are many reasons why employees would try to recruit unions, and none have anything to do with their own personal productivity or performance at the workplace!

This is the umpteenth time CUPE's tried this.

If CUPE want's to contact WJ employees, get a mailing address and put a stamp on it. Otherwise, it's junk mail, on WJ property, placed by a trespasser.

Someone sounds a little desperate. Could it be some Westjetters are spitting out the Kool-Aid?

Well, PSAC just got in the door of the Commissionaires in Halifax, and the Teamsters are making inroads at Fedex, so why not Westjet FA's? LOL.

Well, PSAC just got in the door of the Commissionaires in Halifax, and the Teamsters are making inroads at Fedex, so why not Westjet FA's? LOL.

I'm not a Harpoon fan by any means but his right wing will be certainly getting him to try and soften union powers in the federally regulated industries which include WS.
CB of course has it all wrong(nothing new there) as unions have every right to recruit openly........something I'm opposed to BTW.

Maybe. But I'm not so sure about that. They need the NDP and BQ to side with them on any new legislation...

CB of course has it all wrong(nothing new there) as unions have every right to recruit openly........something I'm opposed to BTW.

Openly yes, but that doesn't necessarily extend to pamphleting cars in the company-provided, private property, employee parking lot or the like; that is trespassing when it involves only non-employee union rep's. Now if any employee joins a union and invites a union rep to speak with employees (not on company time) that is an entirely different matter.

There are always going to be employees that aren't going to be happy. You just can please everybody. What this has done is increase the communication between the Inflight group and the management of Westjet. Hopefully we can work this out and avoid the cancer that is unions.

There are always going to be employees that aren't going to be happy. You just can please everybody. What this has done is increase the communication between the Inflight group and the management of Westjet. Hopefully we can work this out and avoid the cancer that is unions.

You mean replace a cancer of mis truths with one of union lies :D

There are always going to be employees that aren't going to be happy. You just can please everybody. What this has done is increase the communication between the Inflight group and the management of Westjet. Hopefully we can work this out and avoid the cancer that is unions.

For many years the story was that everyone at Westjet was happy. Large profit sharing cheques (as times were good) saw to that happy feeling. Outsiders warned that the good times wouldn't last forever but were shouted down and told they just didn't understand the Westjet culture. Now we're told that you can't please everyone and that "hopefully" it can be worked out. As the times get tougher, and the cheques get smaller, discontent grows. Perhaps the Westjet management can placate the unhappy staff, but what if they can't? Westjet does not operate in a vacuum, and what's happening there has happened before to others at other companies. Tell us how we don't understand the culture all you want, but believe in that culture without question at your peril.

For many years the story was that everyone at Westjet was happy. Large profit sharing cheques (as times were good) saw to that happy feeling. Outsiders warned that the good times wouldn't last forever but were shouted down and told they just didn't understand the Westjet culture. Now we're told that you can't please everyone and that "hopefully" it can be worked out. As the times get tougher, and the cheques get smaller, discontent grows. Perhaps the Westjet management can placate the unhappy staff, but what if they can't? Westjet does not operate in a vacuum, and what's happening there has happened before to others at other companies. Tell us how we don't understand the culture all you want, but believe in that culture without question at your peril.

Oh **** the jig's up!

Oh **** the jig's up!

I think the **** is going to hit the fan in the future and then the jig will be up.

Well, we know WS has used use moves of dubious legality in the past. Now it appears that removing personal mail is in the WS arsenal for heading off unionization:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2006/02/17/1447831-sun.html

Hey Westjet employees....

If there are any of you out there.......

Dont go with the biggest, thinking they are the best.

Create your own group serving your own interests. Once a union becomes the size of CUPE, AFA, etc..... they will not serve your own interests. They become self-serving and want only to grow as any other corporation.

In our industry unions are important, but should be most important for those who are paying the dues....

Look out for yourselves and organize on your own.

Please note that the bulletin board software has an automatic censor that will zap out profanity and replace it with ****. From the FT Guidelines & Rules (http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php),

There is no public list of prohibited words; if you believe a word is questionable, don't use it. If you find a questionable message in any of the forums, contact a moderator who will determine whether the message meets our objective of offering a friendly and flame-free community for frequent travelers. Using spaces, symbols, acronyms and other methods to express vulgarities while avoiding FlyerTalk's censors is still a violation.

Please note in particular the last sentence.

FewMiles..
Moderator, WestJet forum

Odd that Klive and the Kool-Aid crowd seem to get in such a tizzy when unionization rears it's head. After all they're so quick to point out their similarity to Southwest, which is unionized and doesn't seem to bear many scars from it.

Seems to me there's a danger that Westjet HQ will go walmart and do something of questionable legality to fend of a union drive and damage their reputation further.

Please note that the bulletin board software has an automatic censor that will zap out profanity and replace it with ****. From [QUOTE]the FT Guidelines & Rules (http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php),



Please note in particular the last sentence.........."Using spaces, symbols, acronyms and other methods to express vulgarities while avoiding FlyerTalk's censors is still a violation.

Pot kettle black.......I love it. "TF" had no such regs I understand.
And BTW almost everyone on FT substitutes a letter when using words like
"sh!t", "sh!te" and many including mods and talk board members have used "...." very often in the past.

Its ok to quote stuff and rules but all things in moderation has been the general rule of thumb around here. Pleae tell us if that too has changed. If its not said as an insult but more an "explanation mark" it should be ok.

Odd that Klive and the Kool-Aid crowd seem to get in such a tizzy when unionization rears it's head. After all they're so quick to point out their similarity to Southwest, which is unionized and doesn't seem to bear many scars from it.

Seems to me there's a danger that Westjet HQ will go walmart and do something of questionable legality to fend of a union drive and damage their reputation further.

I would be on management's side in that regard........IMHO anything goes to beat a union out as they will use any kind of tactics including blackmail, physical threats and other illegal stuff to try and get their way.

That being said, WS management is so smug they, and a union like pammies bullies, deserve each other.

Well, we know WS has used use moves of dubious legality in the past. Now it appears that removing personal mail is in the WS arsenal for heading off unionization:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2006/02/17/1447831-sun.html

As I said in a previous post. Company mailboxes are not "mail".

Labour law is quite clear that employers are neither allowed to interfere in legitimate union organization activities nor are they allowed to indicate any endorsement or approval of a particular union. Likewise, union organizing is not permitted to take place using company time, resources or property. Internal company mail would presumably be delivered by a Westjet employee as part of their job. The appearance of union mail in a company mailslot may give the improper perception that the company approves of this particular union organizing. In addition, company mail and the effort used to deliver and collect it by the individual would likely be happening during their working hours, something not permitted for union organizing.

Odd that Klive and the Kool-Aid crowd seem to get in such a tizzy when unionization rears it's head. After all they're so quick to point out their similarity to Southwest, which is unionized and doesn't seem to bear many scars from it.

Klive and the Kool-aid crowd. Wasn't that a band back in the 70's? :rolleyes:

Most of our pilots and mechanics have, at some point in their career, worked at an airline that was unionized. They are the employees that are opposing unions. The Inflight group is mostly made up of people who have never worked for an airline and, for the small group that has, some are split over the idea of unionization. It's very easy to brainwash young employees who've never had the displeasure of paying a union to look out for their "interests".

It's interesting that you bring up Southwest because I was speaking with a mechanic the other day that brought up that very same point. He said "Southwest is unionized and they seem to be ok". Point taken, but remove that fuel hedge and Southwest wouldn't have made money for quite some time. No money = concessions. Those scars that don't appear to be there definately would should that fuel hedge run dry.

... The Inflight group is mostly made up of people who have never worked for an airline and, for the small group that has, some are split over the idea of unionization. It's very easy to brainwash young employees who've never had the displeasure of paying a union to look out for their "interests"...

And since they make up a larger group than the pilots, and as WS grows there is not going to be the same sense of "family" (or cult, call it what you will) I can see why Clive & Co are worried.

Klive and the Kool-aid crowd. Wasn't that a band back in the 70's? :rolleyes:

Most of our pilots and mechanics have, at some point in their career, worked at an airline that was unionized. They are the employees that are opposing unions. The Inflight group is mostly made up of people who have never worked for an airline and, for the small group that has, some are split over the idea of unionization. It's very easy to brainwash young employees who've never had the displeasure of paying a union to look out for their "interests".

It's interesting that you bring up Southwest because I was speaking with a mechanic the other day that brought up that very same point. He said "Southwest is unionized and they seem to be ok". Point taken, but remove that fuel hedge and Southwest wouldn't have made money for quite some time. No money = concessions. Those scars that don't appear to be there definately would should that fuel hedge run dry.

Lets face it, WS salad days are over and they need to increase revenue to offset costs that are growing faster than they are letting on.A cost war within will only drive more employees to join a union and this will for sure happen in our socialistic wonderland. Then the costs grow again and WS will not be a profit making organization as they are barely profitable now while AC have stabilized their costs and are still driving them lower. Coffeebean brain's rationale about wage openers is nothing but wishful thinking on his part. These have already been factored in and won't amount to much in any event. AC continues to out source many things and will continue to do so as another cost control method so in that respect they are way ahead of WS and their slow growth model and fast growing cost nightmare.
Another feature of ACE's separation of business units is cost control but our rsident genius is unaware of that because he can't "CASM" it.

It's very easy to brainwash young employees

Quote of the day. :cool:

Simon

Quote of the day. :cool:

Simon

They should hang that slogan on every plane..............that will surely scare the unions off :D

let's face the facts the number one reason employees join a union is because they are unhappy with their treatment by the company they work for.

let's face the facts the number one reason employees join a union is because they are unhappy with their treatment by the company they work for.

Or are convinced a union can make things better....mostly with scare type stories and tactics and all mostly BS.

let's face the facts the number one reason employees join a union is because they are unhappy with their treatment by the company they work for.


Correct. That is why the FA's will send CUPE packing.

Correct. That is why the FA's will send CUPE packing.


that will be their choice but from the few people I know that work there it is not always the big happy family atmosphere they always trying to portray.

Ace Cdn

I know a few who are unhappy too. There always are a few and to tell you the truth there are more of them than in the past. The whiners are always the loudest and tend to drown out the voice of the silent majority. I have seen that phenomenon many times over the years.

The majority are willing to work with the company that they partly own to make it a better place to work. Management realizes that there are problems and are moving to fix them. We hav'nt had a few high level departures lately for nothing.

CUPE will surely fail this time. Just as surely , they will try again. And so it goes...

Ace Cdn

I know a few who are unhappy too. There always are a few and to tell you the truth there are more of them than in the past. The whiners are always the loudest and tend to drown out the voice of the silent majority. I have seen that phenomenon many times over the years.

The majority are willing to work with the company that they partly own to make it a better place to work. Management realizes that there are problems and are moving to fix them. We hav'nt had a few high level departures lately for nothing.

CUPE will surely fail this time. Just as surely , they will try again. And so it goes...


I agree with you but the biggest thing I have found with WS is that you are to do as you are told and not question anything. If you do then you are treated like some sort of criminal and chastised for it.

I agree with you but the biggest thing I have found with WS is that you are to do as you are told and not question anything. If you do then you are treated like some sort of criminal and chastised for it.

Do you work for WestJet? I don't know how you could make that statement otherwise. Listening to disgruntled employee's is not a very good source of info.

I can state categorically that your statement above has been incorrect as far as my own situation is concerned. I have spoken my mind with the big wigs many times which has sometimes started a spirited conversation but have never been castigated or chastised for doing so. I'm thankfull that I can knock on the bosses door anytime and be invited in. I'm not so sure that's possible at other airlines.

deleted

Do you work for WestJet? I don't know how you could make that statement otherwise. Listening to disgruntled employee's is not a very good source of info.

Well, in the same breath, do you listen only to the totally positive people? I don't think so. One needs to listen to both.

Well, in the same breath, do you listen only to the totally positive people? I don't think so. One needs to listen to both.

Agreed. I sometimes get tired of the "it's all good" crowd myself. The point I'm trying to get across is that there are malcontents anywhere you are going to work. No amount of listening and actioning of concerns will ever satisfy them. Nothing makes them happier than to ..... and moan. Once you come to realise who they are you tend to ignore them and then they go looking for other people to solve their problems. We've all seen it.

CanJet flight attendants join CUPE
[March 14, 2006 02:39 PM]
CUPE has been certified to represent about 125 flight attendants at CanJet, a Halifax-based carrier that flies throughout Canada and to Florida.

“These flight attendants are a loyal, dedicated and hard-working group who have contributed to, and want to share in, the success of CanJet,” said Marilyne White, a CUPE servicing representative.

White has maintained a five-year relationship with the CanJet flight attendants, many of whom were represented by CUPE when they were part of Canada 3000.

“The main issues for the flight attendants are scheduling rules, or lack thereof, and demanding respect from their employer,” White said.

Negotiations for a collective agreement will start next month



http://www.cupe.ca/www/News/20395

I guess it all depends on how WS flight attendants feel treated by their employer.

A difficult work environment and low wages in comparison to the same job classifications are the main reasons why people join unions.

So far, I've yet to see any sign from WS front-line staff that they are unhappy with their employer, unlike the grumbling and lack of enthusiam that is widespread at many airlines, especially American legacy carriers.

CUPE failed miserably at their latest push to unionize the WS FA's. If anything, the push helped improve management-employee relations. Changes have been made within and are so far making a positive improvement.

CUPE failed miserably at their latest push to unionize the WS FA's. If anything, the push helped improve management-employee relations. Changes have been made within and are so far making a positive improvement.

Translation. Employees were being treated poorly and management got nervous. All that means is the union will keep pushing.

As much as I don't like WJA I don't wish unions on you.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060322.RTICKER22-3/TPStory/?query=canjet


The Canadian Union of Public Employees has won the right to represent more than 135 flight attendants at privately owned CanJet Airlines. CUPE official Marilyne White said talks for a collective agreement are scheduled to begin in April. CanJet spokesman Wayne Morrison said yesterday that the carrier views the change as a normal part of doing business.

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Sadly these poor innocents have led themselves to a slaughter. :(