Since many here don't have usaviation.com accounts (original members were grandfathered and given continued free access), here's a tidbit that's worth passing along.

An employee emailed Scott Kirby (EVP of Sales/Marketing) about the decision to go with all coach 757's to Europe on some of the routes. His response was interesting - basically saying that they don't have the time to fit the ETOPS 757's with Envoy/Premium seating in time for the service commencement, but they would likely do it in next year's off season. This is good news, even though we'd have to wait a year to see good premium seating up front on those aircraft.

The other interesting tidbits that he shared involved the A319 and A330. Both are getting more coach seats. The A319 will get 4 more to match the HP A319 config (all 319's would then be 12F/112Y).

The A330 will get "about 20" more Y seats. He didn't say where they would be squeezed in, but the other employees chimed in and said that Envoy rows 6 and 7 would be removed in favor of these seats. My thinking is that if they remove the bulkhead between 7 and 8, they could probably fit 3 solid rows of Y in there. Maybe they'll just put 2 in and provide more legroom (ala E+). But that's 16 seats. Where are the other 4 going (to meet his "about 20" comment)?

He also said the row 1 fully flat seats will remain because they would only give a gain of "about 4" coach seats elsewhere. To compensate for that lost revenue, he said they would charge a premium for those seats, but not provide additional service. That makes little sense when I can pay a premium for a fully flat bed on UA and *GET* a higher level of service over the J cabin.

So, take all that for what it's worth. But it was quoted from Kirby himself, so it's likely what's currently planned.

Good news on Row 1 staying. Hopefully upgrade/reward flying CPs will still be able to reserve it if they start charging a premium for the seats.

Since many here don't have usaviation.com accounts (original members were grandfathered and given continued free access), here's a tidbit that's worth passing along.

An employee emailed Scott Kirby (EVP of Sales/Marketing) about the decision to go with all coach 757's to Europe on some of the routes. His response was interesting - basically saying that they don't have the time to fit the ETOPS 757's with Envoy/Premium seating in time for the service commencement, but they would likely do it in next year's off season. This is good news, even though we'd have to wait a year to see good premium seating up front on those aircraft.

The other interesting tidbits that he shared involved the A319 and A330. Both are getting more coach seats. The A319 will get 4 more to match the HP A319 config (all 319's would then be 12F/112Y).

The A330 will get "about 20" more Y seats. He didn't say where they would be squeezed in, but the other employees chimed in and said that Envoy rows 6 and 7 would be removed in favor of these seats. My thinking is that if they remove the bulkhead between 7 and 8, they could probably fit 3 solid rows of Y in there. Maybe they'll just put 2 in and provide more legroom (ala E+). But that's 16 seats. Where are the other 4 going (to meet his "about 20" comment)?

He also said the row 1 fully flat seats will remain because they would only give a gain of "about 4" coach seats elsewhere. To compensate for that lost revenue, he said they would charge a premium for those seats, but not provide additional service. That makes little sense when I can pay a premium for a fully flat bed on UA and *GET* a higher level of service over the J cabin.

So, take all that for what it's worth. But it was quoted from Kirby himself, so it's likely what's currently planned.

I wonder how the former US Airways A319s can accomodate 4 more Y seats. I mean, the only thing in front of row 1 is a small closet on both sides. Then, the lavs are behind the last row of Coach. Thus, I suppose they are going to squeeze one extra row of Coach and reduce seat pitch to 31'' and put just 4 seats instead of 6 by the emergency exit row.


In regards to the A330, row 6 has about 50 inches of leg room and row 2 has 60 inches. Adding them up, you get 110 inches, which is 8 inches more than what they would need to install 3 rows of Coach at 34 inches for 24 additional Y seats.

Good news on Row 1 staying. Hopefully upgrade/reward flying CPs will still be able to reserve it if they start charging a premium for the seats.

It's a good thing but the reasoning is highly questionable. Row 1 has 94 inches of leg room, they can easily squeeze in an additional row of regular Envoy Class seats if they wanted to, i.e., 94 + 50 + 60 + 60 + 60 = 324, divided by 6 is 54, which would still be adequate since they arent installing lie-flat seats. This may be a bit of a stretch, but perhaps the new management is thinking about leaving 1 alone for the future possibility of having international First Class on select markets, e.g. PHL - LGW, PHL - FRA, PHL - CDG.

Air Madrid is a new international low-cost carrier and its has 3 classes of service on select markets.

[QUOTE=PHL]The other interesting tidbits that he shared involved the A319 and A330. Both are getting more coach seats. The A319 will get 4 more to match the HP A319 config (all 319's would then be 12F/112Y).[QUOTE]


Either Kirby doesn't even know his airlines configuration or someone made a typo. The A319 in the "original US" already had 12 FC seats. It's the A320 that has 16 FC seats. I would suspect it's the US A320's that are going to be SHRUNK to 12 FC seats to meet their HP counterparts specifications.

UGH!

Leave the US A320's alone.

[QUOTE=PHL]The other interesting tidbits that he shared involved the A319 and A330. Both are getting more coach seats. The A319 will get 4 more to match the HP A319 config (all 319's would then be 12F/112Y).[QUOTE]


Either Kirby doesn't even know his airlines configuration or someone made a typo. The A319 in the "original US" already had 12 FC seats. It's the A320 that has 16 FC seats. I would suspect it's the US A320's that are going to be SHRUNK to 12 FC seats to meet their HP counterparts specifications.

UGH!

Leave the US A320's alone.

He didn't say anything about the A320. Just the A319. US is currently 12F/108Y where HP's are 12F/112Y. They're simply planning on configuring all of them 12F/112Y, so no change to the 12F seating. This, as a prior post suggested, will mean an overall reduction in Y seat pitch.

......An employee emailed Scott Kirby (EVP of Sales/Marketing) about the decision to go with all coach 757's to Europe on some of the routes. His response was interesting - basically saying that they don't have the time to fit the ETOPS 757's with Envoy/Premium seating in time for the service commencement, but they would likely do it in next year's off season. This is good news, even though we'd have to wait a year to see good premium seating up front on those aircraft..

That's good news and it makes sense. Premium cabin is where the most money is made (beside cargo, but from what I have heard, cargo is minimal on B757s), so to not have a premium cabin is somewhat silly, IMHO. I know US won't be the first to do an all Y TA flight (at least it's tentatively only for a year), but I figure there is gotta be a better route to allocate that precious aircraft(s), considering selling 1 premium cabin seat is better than several (if not more) Y seats.

LAX

Ok....then let's look at the configuration of the HP & US A319's on seatguru.com. Where are they going to "squeeze" in the extra seats on the US A319? Reducing seat pitch is going to give them the extra X# of feet for additional seats?? The only possible solution would be to remove the coat closet and storage area at the row 1 bulkhead. The HP A319's/A320's do not have a coat closet or storage spaces like the US A319's/A320's.

Have a bulkhead wall then they will both have 22 rows.

I don't see how seat pitch will affect the overall increase in the additional seats. Take at look at the UA A319's for a comparison too. They only have 8 FC seats and bulkhead walls and no coat closet. And they have MUCH more seat pitch than US or HP and have 2 more rows total = 24.

And look at the emergency exit row on the HP A319 where there are only 2 seats on both sides of the aisle instead of 3.

So is US (east) going to remove the closet/storage area and 2 seats on the emergency exit row and then move every seat on the plane to accomodate having 112 coach seats?

Wouldn't be shocked if they did.

Again........leave the US (east) planes alone. They are just fine the way they are.

I haven't been on an HP A319, but is it true there is no closet up front?

Regardless, it seems relatively simple that US could add a row (HP has 19 Y rows, US has only 18) and remove the over wing exit window seats just like HP has done - with or without a closet up front - to match the 112 Y seating config.

The A319 is the most versatile in the fleet in terms of market serviceability. Having a common config will allow the combined airline to utilize it a lot more flexibly in terms of scheduling.

On a related topic - do the HP A319's have the LCD pop-down TV screens every few rows?

I haven't been on an HP A319, but is it true there is no closet up front?

Regardless, it seems relatively simple that US could add a row (HP has 19 Y rows, US has only 18) and remove the over wing exit window seats just like HP has done - with or without a closet up front - to match the 112 Y seating config.

The A319 is the most versatile in the fleet in terms of market serviceability. Having a common config will allow the combined airline to utilize it a lot more flexibly in terms of scheduling.

On a related topic - do the HP A319's have the LCD pop-down TV screens every few rows?


TRUE.....there is no closet up front. Coats are hung behind row 3 FC seats just like on UA.

HUH?!?! The only way to GAIN extra footage to add a row is to remove the closet. Reducing seat pitch won't give you extra footage. If the closet is to remain then they'd have to reduce the amount of LEG ROOM. And that would suck!

YES.....they do have pop down screens every few rows.

I've flown HP enough last year and this year to know I don't want the US planes to be altered to match the HP sisters.

I think if Kirby was correct, then we will see the loss of the closet then if there's no other conceivable way to do it.

One other aspect not mentioned with respect to changing the 330...

The "Front coach section" has about 2 inches more pitch than the rear section.
Rows 8-20 (thats 13 rows * 2 ~ 26 inches) - making them all the same would come close to making enough for one whole row of 8.

One other thing thats odd is how it will work - coach is 8 across. When he says "about 20" it sounds like they dont know yet whether they will add 2 or 3 rows (ie 16 or 20).

United's A319s DO have a closet in the front of the cabin. The video equipment is located just above it. The closet is usually full of flight attendant luggage and their coats. Most crews find it easier to hang up the coats on the bulkhead.

(beside cargo, but from what I have heard, cargo is minimal on B757s)
LAX

Very true; it is because the 757s can only be bulk loaded and as such it can take forever to load and unload cargo.

Also, look at the seat pitches on US vs HP.. First class has 1" more on US than HP... (on A319).. and Coach currently as 32" where HP is listed as 30"-32". I think we are about to see the "tight" first class cabins come to US soon... I just hope they do not make them as tight as the 737's on HP :(

Sad news... but I guess the HP model was going to win :(

ALSO, is empower staying and expanding to HP????

Also, look at the seat pitches on US vs HP.. First class has 1" more on US than HP... (on A319).. and Coach currently as 32" where HP is listed as 30"-32". I think we are about to see the "tight" first class cabins come to US soon... I just hope they do not make them as tight as the 737's on HP :(

Sad news... but I guess the HP model was going to win :(

ALSO, is empower staying and expanding to HP????

Empower is staying, but no decision about expansion to hp fleet.

I love those "lost revenue" arguments.
Sardines - just do the sardines - we wont even need seatbelts.

I love those "lost revenue" arguments.
Sardines - just do the sardines - we wont even need seatbelts.

Actually, I hear that they are adding more seatbelt extensions on all flights as a special welcome to the former HP Elites as well as a few "US Air Elites" and their waist sizes.

The A330 will get "about 20" more Y seats. He didn't say where they would be squeezed in, but the other employees chimed in and said that Envoy rows 6 and 7 would be removed in favor of these seats. My thinking is that if they remove the bulkhead between 7 and 8, they could probably fit 3 solid rows of Y in there. Maybe they'll just put 2 in and provide more legroom (ala E+). But that's 16 seats. Where are the other 4 going (to meet his "about 20" comment)?



I checked out several seat maps on the A333 to Europe, and it looks like they are starting to block out rows 6 & 7 as of January 6, 2007. Does this mean that they are starting the process of eliminating these rows?

Upgrades will be difficult, as well as Envoy award seats to Europe.

I checked out several seat maps on the A333 to Europe, and it looks like they are starting to block out rows 6 & 7 as of January 6, 2007. Does this mean that they are starting the process of eliminating these rows?

Upgrades will be difficult, as well as Envoy award seats to Europe.

I may be answering my own question here, but...I thought most major international airlines make a much higher margin on their J product vs. their Y product. Why is US bucking the trend? I'm assuming there's enough demand out there so that if US were to upgrade the Envoy product they would be able to justify the price and fill the seats.

They make money when people actually pay full price for them. Problem is - US hasn't been filling all 42 J seats(I'm including the row 1 sleepers) with full paying pax. Knocking it down to 30 will still allow them to generate premium revenue in addition to the coach. I think they would be smart to put some Econ. Plus in, but they're not that forward thinking.

Also, look at the seat pitches on US vs HP.. First class has 1" more on US than HP... (on A319).. and Coach currently as 32" where HP is listed as 30"-32". I think we are about to see the "tight" first class cabins come to US soon... I just hope they do not make them as tight as the 737's on HP :(

Sad news... but I guess the HP model was going to win :(

ALSO, is empower staying and expanding to HP????

Does anyone know where on the "new" A319 the 32" pitch rows are? I'm trying to decide what the best of the worst seats are. So far it looks like (in order):

10A and 10F (useless if you have a companion)
Row 4
Rest of Coach

I may be answering my own question here, but...I thought most major international airlines make a much higher margin on their J product vs. their Y product. Why is US bucking the trend? I'm assuming there's enough demand out there so that if US were to upgrade the Envoy product they would be able to justify the price and fill the seats.


NW already has 30 J seats in their 330 cabin.

NW already has 30 J seats in their 330 cabin.

I was thinking along the likes of LH and BA, who have 40+ (including their F cabin).

AA and UA have 40+ on their 777s and 747s (UA).

I wonder how the former US Airways A319s can accomodate 4 more Y seats. I mean, the only thing in front of row 1 is a small closet on both sides. Then, the lavs are behind the last row of Coach. Thus, I suppose they are going to squeeze one extra row of Coach and reduce seat pitch to 31''

I think you're on to something with the seat pitch. My first HP flight was just a couple of weeks ago on an HP (painted new US livery; but it was an HP flight number and had the old HP cabin interior) on an A319 ---- what a disappointment in F. The F seats are so crowded with so little leg room it honestly felt like being in E+ on UA. The only row that looked okay was row 1 seats A and B which appeared to have decent leg room. Speaking for row 2 at least, the leg room and seat pitch was terrible. :td:

Since many here don't have usaviation.com accounts (original members were grandfathered and given continued free access), here's a tidbit that's worth passing along.

An employee emailed Scott Kirby (EVP of Sales/Marketing) about the decision to go with all coach 757's to Europe on some of the routes. His response was interesting - basically saying that they don't have the time to fit the ETOPS 757's with Envoy/Premium seating in time for the service commencement, but they would likely do it in next year's off season. This is good news, even though we'd have to wait a year to see good premium seating up front on those aircraft.

The other interesting tidbits that he shared involved the A319 and A330. Both are getting more coach seats. The A319 will get 4 more to match the HP A319 config (all 319's would then be 12F/112Y).

The A330 will get "about 20" more Y seats. He didn't say where they would be squeezed in, but the other employees chimed in and said that Envoy rows 6 and 7 would be removed in favor of these seats. My thinking is that if they remove the bulkhead between 7 and 8, they could probably fit 3 solid rows of Y in there. Maybe they'll just put 2 in and provide more legroom (ala E+). But that's 16 seats. Where are the other 4 going (to meet his "about 20" comment)?

He also said the row 1 fully flat seats will remain because they would only give a gain of "about 4" coach seats elsewhere. To compensate for that lost revenue, he said they would charge a premium for those seats, but not provide additional service. That makes little sense when I can pay a premium for a fully flat bed on UA and *GET* a higher level of service over the J cabin.

So, take all that for what it's worth. But it was quoted from Kirby himself, so it's likely what's currently planned.

Not surprised. UA, AA, BA, and others are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to implement the next generation lie-flat business class seats. US is falling farther behind in the space race for the full fare business class passenger overseas. You pay that kind of cash, and you're not going to eat soggy pizza in a 1980's 767 FC seat.

My prediction for a long time has been: had it not been for the *A restrictions and the cost, they would reconfigure the entire fleet all coach. Every move they've made to date has been "low cost" and not "full service". I hope I eat my words if they put Envoy seats into the overseas 757 for some other reason than *A makes them.

With so many fixed costs, when you're not courting the business traveler, you've got to go low cost. How can you make money in during peak times (monday, friday, holidays, etc...) when Southwest and others can squeeze in a couple of dozen more seats?

I think they should consider the Mid-Grade cabin on US Airways.. even if 20-24 seats.. I flew Virgin Atlantic's Premuim Economy and wow.. it makes a difference.. of course it is not upper class or business class, but it was a 38" pitch, nice recline and a foot rest. Reminded me of First class domestic seats, but alittle better.

If US can create that mid class, they can be quite profitable.. maybe they lose 6-8 coach seats, but can charge an additional 250-450 a seat over a decent coach fare...

But again, that is too forward thinking for US.

.... US is falling farther behind in the space race for the full fare business class passenger overseas. You pay that kind of cash, and you're not going to eat soggy pizza in a 1980's 767 FC seat.
.........
Every move they've made to date has been "low cost" and not "full service". I hope I eat my words if they put Envoy seats into the overseas 757 for some other reason than *A makes them.....


All 767s will be redone in Envoy (new Sleeper Seats, IFE's, etc.) and Economy seats will be re-covered starting next year. The TA 757s are also being redone in Envoy starting now. Assuming that US is upgrading 757/767 Envoy because of *A requirements is somewhat ludicrous - they're doing it to compete with CO and NW.

The back two rows of Envoy are gone beginning in January. Reconfiguration is expected to be completed by March. They're adding 39 coach seats to the A330s.

If you have any Envoy reservations in Rows 6 or 7, I'd suggest moving them forward ASAP. You don't want to get caught out and bumped out because the plane you get ends up with two fewer rows.

This is pretty much the last nail in the coffin, IMO. Envoy award/upgrade seats are going to be really tough to find. I've submitted a status comp request to UA...

You pay that kind of cash, and you're not going to eat soggy pizza in a 1980's 767 FC seat.....had it not been for the *A restrictions and the cost, they would reconfigure the entire fleet all coach....I hope I eat my words if they put Envoy seats into the overseas 757 for some other reason than *A makes them.

The 767 Envoy seats were rolled out in 1997. Not quite 1980's, but still "dated" by today's standards. It was announced a month or two ago that the entire 767 fleet will get lie-flat seats starting next year.

The 757's that serve transatlantic destinations are getting Envoy seating installed this Winter. That was announced last Summer when they aquired the ETOPS 757's and had to get them into service quickly.

All 767s will be redone in Envoy (new Sleeper Seats, IFE's, etc.) and Economy seats will be re-covered starting next year. The TA 757s are also being redone in Envoy starting now. Assuming that US is upgrading 757/767 Envoy because of *A requirements is somewhat ludicrous - they're doing it to compete with CO and NW.

Does anyone know how many new Envoy seats will be in each 767 and 757? Will the 757s be sleeper?

I think you're on to something with the seat pitch. My first HP flight was just a couple of weeks ago on an HP (painted new US livery; but it was an HP flight number and had the old HP cabin interior) on an A319 ---- what a disappointment in F. The F seats are so crowded with so little leg room it honestly felt like being in E+ on UA. The only row that looked okay was row 1 seats A and B which appeared to have decent leg room. Speaking for row 2 at least, the leg room and seat pitch was terrible. :td:

I agree. I took my first reconfigured A319 on Tuesday and was in 2A. :td: :td: The pitch is noticeably smaller. Also, the PSU (lights and air) are now off center, so the light shines too far ahead of the seat. I ended up moving up to Row 1 which was much better.

What are the chances of US undo these changes? The old US East fleet was fine. 2" less pitch in F and the loss of a great Row 9 for 1 more row of coach doesn't make sense to me.

Those brilliant folks in the Sandcastle proclaimed "We don't need them fancy seats". :rolleyes: Meanwhile, they put misleading ads on the website showing how great their First Class is LOL

It is simple math US + HP = WN

I'm confused- the 757s to Europe are going all coach? Or are they having Envoy added?

I'm confused- the 757s to Europe are going all coach? Or are they having Envoy added?

They're getting Envoy cabins this Winter in time for the next "season". I don't know if they're only doing the 3 ETOPS 752's they got last Spring, or more to cover the additional cities that will be serviced with that aircraft.

What will be interesting about these 757s is

1) How many Envoy seats will they have?
2) How will they sell them when flying domestically (I'm assuming as just regular F seats, but that would make for a nice surprise)?

The ATA 757s already have a slightly different seat map than the US 757s, so it is concieveable they could have more than 8 Envoy seats.

Does the 757 reconfig include the ones on the HP side or just US east? The west 75's are really tired...