According to the information released today concerning the proposed merger, there are 38 markets (airports) -- served by both US and HP.

What are they?

How far apart are their respective gates?

Which is likely to predominate at each of the 38 locations?

Which of those have (or recently had) US Airways Clubs? The America West Clubs are at PHX (3) and LAS. The current US Airways Club list is at http://www.usairways.com/pro_services/club/locations/index.htm , and there are also clubs at these non-HP airports: BUF, CLT (2), GSO, LGW, & LGA. PBI closed 2 Apr 05.


ATL
BWI
BOS
ORD
CUN
CLE
CMH
DFW
DEN
DTW


FLL
BDL
IAH
IND
MCI
LAS
LAX (club closed 2 Apr 05)
MEM
MEX
MIA


MKE
MSP
MSY
EWR
MCO (club closed Oct 04)
PHL (2 clubs)
PHX (3 clubs)
PIT
RDU
STL


SAN
SFO (club closed 2 Apr 05)
SJO
SEA
TPA
YYZ
DCA
IAD

LAX: Both US and HP operate from Terminal 1, virtually side-by-side.

LAS: US operates at the "D" gates; HP at the "B" gates. Different security checkpoints, although McCarran is building a bridge which will allow pax to transfer between the gates without going through security again.

USAir. I can't tell you how many times I've heard US Airways identified as US Air today (which I always thought was a better name than "Airways".

LAS: US operates at the "D" gates; HP at the "B" gates. Different security checkpoints, although McCarran is building a bridge which will allow pax to transfer between the gates without going through security again.

Yeah, HP pretty much dominates the older part of LAS, both the A & B concourse. US has a couple of gates at the new D concourse, which is quite far from the A & B concourse, and only accessible by a people mover. I would expect McCarran to move US to A or B, which both use the same security checkpoint. They're building a bridge to connect the B concourse to the WN dominated C concourse, so WN can use B gates during the morning and afternoon and HP can use C gates for redeyes. I don't think the bridge will be completed for over a year, though.

both are here at IAH. Both are in Terminal A...but on different sides and different security entrances. US is on the same side as UA and Air Canada.

I suspect that America West would transfer over to this side as it would make no sense for US to be over on the side with Frontier, DL and AA. They would likely need extra gates...perhaps only one....because US has their two (? three max) pretty maxed out with service to CLT, PHL, PIT and DCA. America West has service to PHX and some service to LAS from IAH.

There are plenty of gates available on the UA/US side if we can get rid of all the CO Express RJs that have been appearing there lately (rumor has it that they are there to keep new carriers out...such as JetBlue)...CO can take their RJs over to the DL side where AmericaWest is now. SWA just pulled out of the UA/US side of the terminal...so that should help.

Now I am only an occasionally on US .....but, as a UA 1k, I welcome any new star alliance flights out of this CO hub! (Assuming they'll still in Star Alliance and I think that they will continue in Star as well as continue to code share with UA)

I know at DFW US and HP are in the same area and BOS as well.

Her are some more served by both:

RDU
ATL
MCO
TPA
FLL
MIA
MSY
DFW
PIT
PHL
DCA
IAD
BWI
BOS
ORD

I know there are more just can't think now!

US and HP gates are adjacent at EWR as well.

Ground handling at PIT for America West is handled by American. Wonder if that'll change and/or they'll move America West gates closer to USAirways in A or B. (They are currently at the end of D)

Won't they be giving up gates at airports they both serve? I'd guess that's part of the money saving synergies Parker talked about.

They both serve MKE

America West from the D concourse
USAir from the C

Plus

STL

both serve CMH

and MSP

I know at DFW US and HP are in the same area and BOS as well.

Not in BOS. US dominates one side of Terminal B and HP has a couple of forlorn little gates adjacent to the other side (dominated by AA). The two sides are entirely separate -- no connection between the two except by walking through the parking garage.

Presumably HP will move to US's side and, if they need space, maybe AS will get bounced, probably to HP's gates but possibly to AA's gates or the space B6 used to occupy in Terminal E. (I remember when VS used to use the current HP gates -- running a 747 from that pokey little place was interesting...)

Both serve BDL as well.

As for BOS, I'd expect HP to switch to the US side of Terminal B, as US does have quite a few gates on that side that could be used. At BDL, I'd expect HP to just go over to the current US gates (they currently use Continental's gates), as HP only has one morning flight out to PHX.

At MCO, HP is in Airside 1, US Airways in Airside 3...I'd assume HP would move over to Airside 3, as there are quite a few empty gates on the US concourse in 3.

Here at RDU, US and HP are in the same terminal (good old Terminal A -- ugh -- UAX was smart to boogie over to Terminal C) but their respective gates are pretty far apart. Not quite opposite ends of the terminal, but a good walk w/o any moving walkways.

At STL, they are very close by just "across the street" in Terminal A there.

Ground handling at PIT for America West is handled by American. Wonder if that'll change and/or they'll move America West gates closer to USAirways in A or B. (They are currently at the end of D)


HUH? CO handles the HP flights at PIT (gates D77 & 79). ATA was being handled by AA (before they pulled out of PIT), and shared a gate at the end of D concourse (D87).

This will probably be where the reduction in workforce comes from, as most of the current US stations have the capability to handle the flights that HP has currently.

And to think -- I will no longer get laughed at by the website when I try to book ex YVR as US/HP will now have service from my new home base! My thoughts of defecting to another FFP have now been complicated.

Both serve BDL too. Both in Terminal A.

Just a side note - the fact that HP has flights beyond the DCA perimeter rule is a huge win for US flyers in DCA.

LAX: Both US and HP operate from Terminal 1, virtually side-by-side...

That reminds me. Shortly before all the merger talk, it was rumored that HP would be moving from Terminal 1 at LAX to another terminal (5 or 6, maybe). WN has most of the flights out of Terminal 1 and wanted it all to itself, and the other terminal would have had more room for club rooms and such. I wonder if HP/US will stay at LAX Terminal 1 or move across the street.

At ORD, HP/US are both in Terminal 2. I don't think that they're in adjacent gates, but close enough for any practical purpose.

Just a side note - the fact that HP has flights beyond the DCA perimeter rule is a huge win for US flyers in DCA.
Will HP be allowed to keep that, or will it go out for award again?

I wonder if HP/US will stay at LAX Terminal 1 or move across the street.
If they stay in *A, it would make sense to move to T6 to be close to UA.

Good point. After some research, it looks like they will go out for award again. AA had to give up the slots when they took over TWA.

"Following American’s proposal to acquire TWA, the department, in a Jan. 23 letter, informed the carriers that slot exemptions, unlike slots acquired under the high-density rule, may not be transferred or conveyed."

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot6501.htm

Will HP be allowed to keep that, or will it go out for award again?

You're right, I was thinking about ATA rather than AWA in PIT :)

Last but not least

-SEA
-SAN

also CLE - as I recall, they're across the aisle from each other at the end of concourse A.

Are the 38 markets United States-only? I count 40 (including Canada, Mexico, & Costa Rica) from a comparison of US & HP maps, and unless I'm forgetting some of the cities, US or HP have discontinued service since the maps were made, or they count DCA/IAD as one market and FLL/MIA as one market (or DCA/BWI/IAD as a single market):

ATL, BOS, BDL, BWI, CLE, CMH, CUN, DCA, DEN, DFW,
DTW, EWR, FLL, IAD, IAH, IND, JFK, LAS, LAX, MCI,
MCO, MEM, MEX, MIA, MKE, MSP, MSY, ORD, PHL, PHX,
PIT, RDU, SAN, SEA, SFO, SJO, STL, TPA, YVR, YYZ

Are the 38 markets United States-only? I count 40 (including Canada, Mexico, & Costa Rica) from a comparison of US & HP maps

US doesn't serve JFK or YVR.

CLE is also well positioned, both HP and US are at the tail end of Concourse A (US on the right side, HP right in the centre).

In ATL, they are both on the D concourse, but on opposite ends (US is in the D20s toward the centre, HP is at the end at D3ish).

In MSY, they are on seperate concourses (US on A, HP on B), but I would see HP moving its small operation over to A (US has 3 gates and about 10 daily flights, they should be able to handle an extra flight or two each day).

Are the 38 markets United States-only? I count 40 (including Canada, Mexico, & Costa Rica) from a comparison of US & HP maps, and unless I'm forgetting some of the cities, US or HP have discontinued service since the maps were made, or they count DCA/IAD as one market and FLL/MIA as one market (or DCA/BWI/IAD as a single market):

ATL, BOS, BDL, BWI, CLE, CMH, CUN, DCA, DEN, DFW,
DTW, EWR, FLL, IAD, IAH, IND, JFK, LAS, LAX, MCI,
MCO, MEM, MEX, MIA, MKE, MSP, MSY, ORD, PHL, PHX,
PIT, RDU, SAN, SEA, SFO, SJO, STL, TPA, YVR, YYZ

Exerda, not to be a nudge, but 38 maybe? I don't think US metal goes to YVR (Vancouver) or JFK.

Like the list.

Ironic also that America West recently relocated their ticket counter right next to US Airways. Also all gates are on Concouse D :) .

Yes, but I think they will have a good chance of keeping it. Unlike the AAcquisition of TW (which held the slot exemption), HP (which holds the slot exemption) is doing the acquiring of US, so their will be no need to transfer or convey the right.


Good point. After some research, it looks like they will go out for award again. AA had to give up the slots when they took over TWA.

"Following American’s proposal to acquire TWA, the department, in a Jan. 23 letter, informed the carriers that slot exemptions, unlike slots acquired under the high-density rule, may not be transferred or conveyed."

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot6501.htm

In PHX, HP has a massive number of gates in Terminal 4. The handful of US flights (currently in Terminal 2) will certainly be moved to T4.

In DEN, both are on the C Concourse, but at opposite ends.

Best to move to the US gates, which are closer to the train station and bounce Airtran or Midwest to the far end of C.

Don't forget that all this moving around could also provide the incentive to relocate to terminals with other Star partners where feasible. Eg. LAX, YYZ; I'm sure there are others.

I have edited the Original Post to include all 38 common airports, and the status of the clubs.

Would it be particularly helpful to include the gates in the original post, too?

[deleted by poster]

Exerda, not to be a nudge, but 38 maybe? I don't think US metal goes to YVR (Vancouver) or JFK.

Like the list.

Thanks... my mistake on JFK; the US route map indicates it only as a partner-airline's airport. I misread the line on the map pointing to it :o

I'm going to assume the US route map's indication on YVR is because of AC and codeshares. Never been there myself--most of my US flying is to places that don't overlap with HP's coverage... in other words, the small regional airports. Thanks for the corrections!

As far as SAN is concerned, you can expect US to move from T1 over to T2. There is no way HP will leave the T2 for the old dump US is currently in. However, HP will have to come up with more gate space. Maybe they can expand their agreement with CO, or perhaps being one with another carrier.

SAN has been given approval to begin building the second half of T2, so eventually there will be more gates

There seems to be renewed interest in post-merger gate assignments.

Yes, but I think they will have a good chance of keeping it. Unlike the AAcquisition of TW (which held the slot exemption), HP (which holds the slot exemption) is doing the acquiring of US, so their will be no need to transfer or convey the right.

nice try, but... HP acquired its exemption slots, at least in part, by virtue of being a DCA 'outsider/LCC'; those airlines were given preference in the exemption criteria... that status certainly lapses once you buy up the principal slot leaseholder at DCA...

operations at EWR have already been combined.

LAX is basically combined, as HP subleases one gate already.

PHX & LAS - US is already scheduled to move to HP's facilities. In LAS, US was in the old terminal until quite recently, when they moved over to D with UA.

I would expect that most cities east of the Mississippi with the exception of CMH would move to US facilities, due to our presence there. There was already something that US is moving from it's concourse in CMH to the HP operation. ORD may be another possibility, depending on the location of their gates. I know our gates are stuck in UX RJ land. MSY is another possiblity, as I know that the US gates are stuck in the corner.

SFO is probably going to HP, as the city will finally be able to demolish the US terminal.

I haven't seen HP's facilities at MSY, but they've got to be in better shape than the US gates! US operates 3 gates at the end of Concourse A. The location is fine, but the area needs a major overhaul if it's to be the new home of HP/US.

In FLL I would bet that HP will leave the B gates (the newest concoruse at FLL) and move to US's F gates as IIRC US now has most of the F gates, save for FL and CanJet.

Good point. After some research, it looks like they will go out for award again. AA had to give up the slots when they took over TWA.

"Following American’s proposal to acquire TWA, the department, in a Jan. 23 letter, informed the carriers that slot exemptions, unlike slots acquired under the high-density rule, may not be transferred or conveyed."

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot6501.htm

Considering HP is buying US, and HP has the rights, I doubt they would lose them. Remember, AA bought TWA.

At my hometown airport ORD Checking is next to each other at T2 US Airways Gates are F8,F10,F12 while America West I believe E 15 its about a 5 minute walk between them. Theyer both after security, so no going to securtiy again, infact T2 has a V layout, so when a US planes is taxing out of gate its in the back of and AWA plane. Becuase entire F section is filled by United Express, and i guess US Airways is renting 2 gates, and sharing 1 w/ United Express AWA wont be able to move in w/ US Airways. and on the E section AWA is next to continental and nwa who will be not most likely to move in by United Express, so Im guessing a ground shutltle will be used but it would still take longer than just walking thru, plus I think the current US Airways location is convenient if youre connecting to United Express. United however is at T1. So I guess they will stay like the way they are. OR Possibly US Airways will rent maybe 2 more gates from UNITED Express and sell the AWA one to NWA or COA. well see, but at least checking is right next to US Airways. No moving aoround just repainting. the GA's wont complaing about moving way LOL! here is link to ORD T2 its in PDF will take a min to load or less... enjoy http://www.flychicago.com/ConcessionsTerminalsORD/D2.pdf

LOT Polish Airlines Youre Under Our Wing www.lot.com

You Wont Regret Flying With US www.usairways.com

Considering HP is buying US, and HP has the rights, I doubt they would lose them. Remember, AA bought TWA.

they are "new entrant" slots, meant for carriers unrepresented at DCA.
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf46/79069_web.pdf
once they control all hundred-odd US slots, HP no longer qualifies to keep them.

they are "new entrant" slots, meant for carriers unrepresented at DCA.
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf46/79069_web.pdf
once they control all hundred-odd US slots, HP no longer qualifies to keep them.
You make it sound as if it's already been decided. That's not the case. I don't think it's likely they'll keep the slots, but there's an argument to be made that because of the barbell shape of the HP/US network, the benefits that caused the award haven't gone. Page 26 of the pdf you linked to shows the beyond the perimeter market share. TW had 11% and AA had 32%, while HP had 2% and US had 6%. There was no way they were going to give AA any more slots. Since US currently has 0 beyond the perimeter slots, it's not inconceivable they'll be allowed to keep HP's. Besides, doesn't McCain like that route?

At my hometown airport ORD Checking is next to each other at T2 US Airways Gates are F8,F10,F12 while America West I believe E 15 its about a 5 minute walk between them. Theyer both after security, so no going to securtiy again, infact T2 has a V layout, so when a US planes is taxing out of gate its in the back of and AWA plane. Becuase entire F section is filled by United Express, and i guess US Airways is renting 2 gates, and sharing 1 w/ United Express AWA wont be able to move in w/ US Airways. and on the E section AWA is next to continental and nwa who will be not most likely to move in by United Express, so Im guessing a ground shutltle will be used but it would still take longer than just walking thru, plus I think the current US Airways location is convenient if youre connecting to United Express. United however is at T1. So I guess they will stay like the way they are. OR Possibly US Airways will rent maybe 2 more gates from UNITED Express and sell the AWA one to NWA or COA. well see, but at least checking is right next to US Airways. No moving aoround just repainting. the GA's wont complaing about moving way LOL! here is link to ORD T2 its in PDF will take a min to load or less... enjoy http://www.flychicago.com/ConcessionsTerminalsORD/D2.pdf

LOT Polish Airlines Youre Under Our Wing www.lot.com

You Wont Regret Flying With US www.usairways.com
Ahem! (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454215&highlight=paragraphs)

You make it sound as if it's already been decided. That's not the case. I don't think it's likely they'll keep the slots, but there's an argument to be made that because of the barbell shape of the HP/US network, the benefits that caused the award haven't gone.

I expect that they will make such an argument, and no the decision hasn't been made yet. The preceding arguments about how this should be a slam dunk simply because HP is buying US and not the other way round, however-- they're not on firm ground at all. HP is the current slot owner, but it's not unchanged here. As a result of this transaction it will have undergone a change of control-- existing HP shareholders no longer control a majority of the company; they have effectively sold controlling interest to the outside investors. That alone probably makes the exemption slots forfeit and they would have to be re-won.