So the bill is $57 and from a $100 bill I receive back two $20s and three ones. I say the proper tip is $3. Your opinion?

Sorry i'm a little off topic -- I had to think about it for a second but is the "proper" change a twenty, two tens and three ones? It would make sense -- just want to know to see if I figured it out or if this is way over my head. Thanks.

American waiter, I presume, since you said dollars? Maybe he knew he gave you lousy service and didn't want to insinuate that you owed him anything more than $3.

Assuming you had no other [legal tender] banknotes, the proper tip was not $3 (assuming otherwise decent service). One of the $10 bills from the twenty you asked the server to break would be more like it.
I'm mildly horrified at foregoing the 67 airline miles by paying cash though. :eek:

I had somewhat of the opposite experience when I landed in Puerto Rico after traveling overseas for a year. At that point I knew I was back in the US by the way my change came back. I paid for a $12 meal with a $100 and got (roughly) 13-$1, 3-$5, 2-$10, 2-$20. I thought that was a bit overboard on the trying to get a big tip.

I had somewhat of the opposite experience when I landed in Puerto Rico after traveling overseas for a year. At that point I knew I was back in the US by the way my change came back. I paid for a $12 meal with a $100 and got (roughly) 13-$1, 3-$5, 2-$10, 2-$20. I thought that was a bit overboard on the trying to get a big tip.

Probably more likely due to the waiter not having adequate change in their pocket. Hundreds are hard for waitstaff to break in cheaper restaurants.

So the bill is $57 and from a $100 bill I receive back two $20s and three ones. I say the proper tip is $3. Your opinion?

$3.00 is a cheap-o tip.

When I'm traveling, I make sure I keep a stash of small bills separate from my other money just for tip purposes.

I'm mildly horrified at foregoing the 67 airline miles by paying cash though. :eek:
Me too.

Proper tip = $3?? People have lots of ways to calculate the value of service. Looking at your method from another perspective -- you gave the server about 5%. So are you being clever or cheap? How well did the server take care of you during the meal? Granted, at the very end of the service, the server did a possibly boneheaded thing and gave you change that couldn't be used to make a tip in any common amount. However (1) there could be other reasons besides being a bonehead -- what if he's out of smaller bills, the bar can't help, and he can't find a manager, so he decides to get you the check because he's concerned you've already waited a while while he runs around looking for change? (2) that last interaction was only a small part of the service received.

If you'd like change in other denominations in order to give a tip in a certain amount, would you ever consider asking?

If you'd like change in other denominations in order to give a tip in a certain amount, would you ever consider asking?Most people would indeed ask for change. But I think that the OP's point is a valid one. IMHO , part of professional, gracious service is for the server to go to the trouble of securing proper demoninations.

My very rough guidline for a moderate cost restaurant is to tip 20% of the pre-tax amount for good service, or 25% of the pre-tax for really excellent service. Once I had my proper change in hand, I'd probably reduce the tip, maybe by 5 to 10 percent of what I would have given otherwise.

The handling of payment is the final part of what should be an overall pleasant experience. To have the customer walk away from the restaurant on a negative note is not something I'd want, were I the restaurant owner or manager.

I don't think this was the case that time. I was at a mid price restaurant, eating a cheap meal at a fairly busy time. Change came from a central till not the individual waiters pocket.

Probably more likely due to the waiter not having adequate change in their pocket. Hundreds are hard for waitstaff to break in cheaper restaurants.

Well, if you're not going back to the restaurant ever again, eh, just stiff 'em ...just kidding. :p
Just ask to break the twenty. Yes, it's kind of stupid to bring change like that but if the service was decent it would be pretty mean spirited to just tip three dollars for which there could easily have been a number of reasonable explanations for the denominations. On the otherhand, if this just topped off a really poor dining experience overall, I'd say sure, consider tipping the three.

Waitperson??? Snort, snort... :rolleyes:

How about Waitunit? Waitbeing? Waithuman? Waitanoid? Waitominid?

So the bill is $57 and from a $100 bill I receive back two $20s and three ones. I say the proper tip is $3. Your opinion?


Seems to me the waitperson made correct change, just not the way you wanted it

So the bill is $57 and from a $100 bill I receive back two $20s and three ones. I say the proper tip is $3. Your opinion?

Unless your waiter did an absymal job, I am not sure why you think a 5% tip is appropriate. Clearly the waiter wasn't too bright to give you change like that so you just ask him to break the 20s in the denominations you want. Then tip based on his level of service to you.

Generally, I would rather be given as few bills as possible since I carry my wallet in my back pocket, despite all the advice to the contrary. (For the same reason, I would be quite happy if ATMs spit out $50's or $100's instead of $20's.) I am quite capable of asking for change if needed. In extreme cases (such as a $5 drink, pay with a $20, get back 1 $5 and 10 $1) I will make a point to ask the waiter to change at least 5 of the singles and all 10 if I have another single.

In the OP's example, I think it would have been fine for the waiter to provide the change as 1 $20, 1 $10, 2 $5, and 3 $1. However, IMHO there was nothing wrong with the denominations of change received and should not have impacted the gratuity.

...is a reflection of bad service. Making you wait at the end of the mea for something that should have been so obvious, makes him/her deserving of getting stiffed. Short of an explanation "sorry we didnt have any small bills in the till" I think you did the right thing. However I wouldnt go back to eat there for a while :D

im a waiter and bartender at a bar and grill. i always give "proper" change. i would have given you the 20's and 1's. i think that giving you a breakdown of change is rude. it would seem like i am giving you some fives and tens just so you can tip me. i would prefer the customer to ask, can i get a ten and two fives for this 20.

Unless your waiter did an absymal job, I am not sure why you think a 5% tip is appropriate. Clearly the waiter wasn't too bright to give you change like that so you just ask him to break the 20s in the denominations you want. Then tip based on his level of service to you.

I think the OP's point is that he/she shouldn't have to make a second request for the "correct" change by breaking a twenty. My guess is that the OP realizes that a 5% tip is probably grossly inadequate, but if the waiter/waitress can't think through the fact that bringing back two twenties and three singles is just begging the question "will you please break a $20?", then maybe 5% is appropriate.

I have to say, this is one of my dining pet peeves. The "correct" change was one twenty, two tens, and three ones. In fact, as TRRed said, I think that the two tens should really be one ten and two fives, just to cover all the bases.

I think the OP's point is that he/she shouldn't have to make a second request for the "correct" change by breaking a twenty. My guess is that the OP realizes that a 5% tip is probably grossly inadequate, but if the waiter/waitress can't think through the fact that bringing back two twenties and three singles is just begging the question "will you please break a $20?", then maybe 5% is appropriate.

I have to say, this is one of my dining pet peeves. The "correct" change was one twenty, two tens, and three ones. In fact, as TRRed said, I think that the two tens should really be one ten and two fives, just to cover all the bases.

wouldnt you see this as the waitperson expecting a tip? is it not like they hold out there hand just that half beat extra waiting for you to put more money in their palm?

Could have been worse. I had paid for dinner that was about $30, paid with a $100 bill, and got mostly ones back :mad:

Depending on the restaurant, it may not have been the waitperson that made the change. It could have been given to the restaurant cashier who made the change.

maybe you should have asked for the change you wanted...the waiter could have been busy, didn't have the proper change or that's what the bartender gave him when he asked to cash out...if you got good service than $3 is a bad tip regardless....have a heart waitng tables is hard work

maybe you should have asked for the change you wanted...the waiter could have been busy, didn't have the proper change or that's what the bartender gave him when he asked to cash out...if you got good service than $3 is a bad tip regardless....have a heart waitng tables is hard work

Well said! Not only does a waiter have to perform their service, but apparently needs to be able to read minds as well. Some people will find any excuse to justify being cheap. Since credit cards have become the primary method of payment, cash isn't always abundant, especially when everyone has 20's dispensed by ATM machines. If the service is good tip accordingly. I prefer when the gratuity is included, in fact I usually leave a little extra, expecially on small bills.

wouldnt you see this as the waitperson expecting a tip? is it not like they hold out there hand just that half beat extra waiting for you to put more money in their palm?

Not on a $57 check. I'd say the waitperson was expecting the appropriate tip. Giving me back two twenties and three singles is just begging for trouble, in my opinion. Assuming that the $57 did not include taxes and that the service was good, I would have been prepared to tip around $11, so the change received by the OP would have been useless to me, again, assuming that I didn't have other denominations (besides $100s) in my pocket. I wouldn't want the waitperson to assume that. Bring me the change that will make it easiest to give you the "right" tip. Even if I was planning to tip 10% or 15% for crappy service, I'd still need something besides two $20s and three $1s.

Could have been worse. I had paid for dinner that was about $30, paid with a $100 bill, and got mostly ones back :mad:

So you would have been all set for the "adult" clubs! Just kidding, of course. I hate getting a wad of singles, too. Worse is getting more than a dollar's worth of change.

Well said! Not only does a waiter have to perform their service, but apparently needs to be able to read minds as well. Some people will find any excuse to justify being cheap. Since credit cards have become the primary method of payment, cash isn't always abundant, especially when everyone has 20's dispensed by ATM machines. If the service is good tip accordingly. I prefer when the gratuity is included, in fact I usually leave a little extra, expecially on small bills.

I think it's the restaurant's responsibility to have an appropriate mix of cash on hand at all times. The customer is always right, and a good waitperson will help him/herself by giving a guest the change that ensures him/herself the best chance for getting a decent tip. Making guests ask to break 20s isn't the way to win a good tip.

I think it's the restaurant's responsibility to have an appropriate mix of cash on hand at all times. The customer is always right, and a good waitperson will help him/herself by giving a guest the change that ensures him/herself the best chance for getting a decent tip. Making guests ask to break 20s isn't the way to win a good tip.

Restaurants aren't banks, there was probably a legitimate reason why the change came back that way. It's obvious that a wait person would try to enhance the opportunity of getting a decent tip, not purposely give change back that makes it more difficult.

More often than not, the customer has smaller bills and is saving them for something else.

The customer is always right,

The three greatest lies:

1) I love You

2) The check is in the mail

3) The customer is always right.

I think the OP's point is that he/she shouldn't have to make a second request for the "correct" change by breaking a twenty. My guess is that the OP realizes that a 5% tip is probably grossly inadequate, but if the waiter/waitress can't think through the fact that bringing back two twenties and three singles is just begging the question "will you please break a $20?", then maybe 5% is appropriate.

I have to say, this is one of my dining pet peeves. The "correct" change was one twenty, two tens, and three ones. In fact, as TRRed said, I think that the two tens should really be one ten and two fives, just to cover all the bases.

I agree that that a customer should not have to ask for correct change. I think waiters who don't do this probably aren't such good waiters. Really good waitstaff knows what to do. That said, I still don't think that a $3 tip on a $57 meal is appropriate unless everything else about the meal was horrible.

im a waiter and bartender at a bar and grill. i always give "proper" change. i would have given you the 20's and 1's. i think that giving you a breakdown of change is rude.

Why? It is truly inconvenient to the customer when waiters don't do this.

wouldnt you see this as the waitperson expecting a tip?

You act like there is something wrong with that. :confused: They are waiters. Their money is made on tips and hence they are incented to give the best service they can in order to get a decent gratuity.

Could have been worse. I had paid for dinner that was about $30, paid with a $100 bill, and got mostly ones back :mad:

That's really odd considering they may need ones later on.

maybe you should have asked for the change you wanted...the waiter could have been busy, didn't have the proper change or that's what the bartender gave him when he asked to cash out...if you got good service than $3 is a bad tip regardless....have a heart waitng tables is hard work

I don't tip because I have a heart. I tip for good service. Tips aren't charity; they are payment for services rendered. That said, if the service is bad, the tip will reflect that. Customers shouldn't have to ask for the denominations of change. Good wait staff never assumes that.

More often than not, the customer has smaller bills and is saving them for something else.

Do you have ways of seeing what's in people's wallets? When ATMs start dispensing 5s and 1s, you might have more support for your supposition.

You act like there is something wrong with that. :confused: They are waiters. Their money is made on tips and hence they are incented to give the best service they can in order to get a decent gratuity.

tip(s) is an acronym. To Insure Proper Service. The tip is supposed to be given before any order/transaction is done. But that is no longer the case. I think the whole idea of tipping is outdated and screwed up. no one is supposed to give a tip. it is just a way of showing you did a good job. when i wait tables or bartend. i always give all their change back even if they say the rest is for you. i consider it to be rude when a waitperson gives me a great deal of change. but then again, what if i am giving you the right change. if youve got the cash and paying with big bills im gonna give you the 20's back for a big tip. but im not that way, just would like you to see the opposite side of it. then again, im in grb which is nothing like the outside world.

tip(s) is an acronym. To Insure Proper Service. The tip is supposed to be given before any order/transaction is done.

I never knew that a tip is an acronym. Learn something new everyday. :p That said, why would anyone pay for their meal including the tip before they received it unless they were at a cafeteria which would then eliminate the need for waitstaff?

I never knew that a tip is an acronym. Learn something new everyday. :p That said, why would anyone pay for their meal including the tip before they received it unless they were at a cafeteria which would then eliminate the need for waitstaff?

not to pay for your meal before you get it. think of the idea behind the way the acronym reads. just like you would tip the mater'd for a nice table. if you didnt you would get an ordinary table, or lets say you slide a 20 across the coutner at a hotel and you get a better room. works on the same premise. if i were to be tipped generously before anything went down, i would be hell bent on making sure that table was taken care of. if bartending, a few free drinks would be given.

omt - it could also work against you, that is what i think most people are afraid of. the waitperson may think, i already got the tip, why do i need to do anything more? i understand the reason why that doesnt happen anymore. but i think people may be surprised at the honesty and morals of some waitstaff.

not to pay for your meal before you get it. think of the idea behind the way the acronym reads. just like you would tip the mater'd for a nice table. if you didnt you would get an ordinary table, or lets say you slide a 20 across the coutner at a hotel and you get a better room. works on the same premise. if i were to be tipped generously before anything went down, i would be hell bent on making sure that table was taken care of. if bartending, a few free drinks would be given.

omt - it could also work against you, that is what i think most people are afraid of. the waitperson may think, i already got the tip, why do i need to do anything more? i understand the reason why that doesnt happen anymore. but i think people may be surprised at the honesty and morals of some waitstaff.

In the examples you give above, you are paying under the table for an improvement and/or upgrade. It's not for standard good service. In addition, it takes a few seconds to lead you to a nice table and a few seconds to go through a computer to find the upgraded hotel room. Waiter service is constant and in fact laborious. Also, I tip a percentage of the bill. I haven't ordered yet so I am not going to guess what the amount should be. In addition, wait staff turnover is huge.....why offer a gratuity in advance of knowing if the person will actually provide such good service? Lastly, many pay by credit card and add the gratuity to the check on the card.

In the examples you give above, you are paying under the table for an improvement and/or upgrade. It's not for standard good service. In addition, it takes a few seconds to lead you to a nice table and a few seconds to go through a computer to find the upgraded hotel room. Waiter service is constant and in fact laborious. Also, I tip a percentage of the bill. I haven't ordered yet so I am not going to guess what the amount should be. In addition, wait staff turnover is huge.....why offer a gratuity in advance of knowing if the person will actually provide such good service? Lastly, many pay by credit card and add the gratuity to the check on the card.

i completely understand this, was just trying to explain. going to a restaurant and ordering and the waiter well doing their job is standard service. its all a given. yes there is always an expception to the rule. this is just my thinking, im not trying to pursuade or start something but just think of this. why suffer through a bad experience and leave a bad tip to show your dissatisfaction. but instead give a five or some small tip to get the waitstaff to do well in anticipation for a nice tip in the end. i have done this a couple times at nicer restaurants in the area and has worked out well. ive also done this when at a bar. give them a five or ten when you know your going to be there for an extended period of time and ive seen free drinks and shots come. never have to wait for a refill. just an idea.

tip(s) is an acronym. To Insure Proper Service.

Most etymologists have dismissed this theory.

William and Mary Morris posit that tip is a corruption of stipend (from the Latin stips, meaning "gift").

Here's the majority opinion (http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990317), which concurs with the OED's etymology.

Restaurants aren't banks, there was probably a legitimate reason why the change came back that way. It's obvious that a wait person would try to enhance the opportunity of getting a decent tip, not purposely give change back that makes it more difficult.

More often than not, the customer has smaller bills and is saving them for something else.

There's no legitimate reason NOT to have a proper mix of cash and coins on hand. It's inexcusable. Make a daily bank run and solve the problem. It's as bad as running out of food.

The three greatest lies:

1) I love You

2) The check is in the mail

3) The customer is always right.

Wow. Based on response #1, you must have loads of relationship success, and based on response #3, you're clearly not in the service industry.

Deleted.

maybe we have to get to the root of peoples opinions. the group that thinks its "unexcusable" and the other who thinks its not. Who has worked in the service industry ie waitperson, busser, bartender etc.?

just curious.

maybe we have to get to the root of peoples opinions. the group that thinks its "unexcusable" and the other who thinks its not. Who has worked in the service industry ie waitperson, busser, bartender etc.?

just curious.

I have.

Wow. Based on response #1, you must have loads of relationship success, and based on response #3, you're clearly not in the service industry.

Actually, I've been married 26 years.

And as to #3, 95% of your problems come from 5% of of your customers. Lose them and you've eliminated most of your problems. The customer is not always right. The three dollar tippers are taking up valuable space.

I don't tip because I have a heart. I tip for good service. Tips aren't charity; they are payment for services rendered. That said, if the service is bad, the tip will reflect that. Customers shouldn't have to ask for the denominations of change. Good wait staff never assumes that.

well, if you have that attitude..stick to McDonalds!! Waiting tables is very hard work especially when you have to deal with cheap people

Restaurants aren't banks...
Part of operating a business, such as a restaurant, is being prepared to make change. Restaurateurs make frequent trips to the bank, and they should be making it a point to request a sufficient number of small bills from the bank each visit.

Otherwise, when I've got a $20 and three $1s and the bill is $10, they'll have the option of getting $3 or making change for the $20. Not suprisingly, whenever it comes down to this the business in question magically comes up with the change for the $20, despite any protests about not being able to break the $20 that they may have given me before.

Despite what some think, I'm the customer, not the restaurant. Services exist to service customers - not the other way around.

Part of operating a business, such as a restaurant, is being prepared to make change. Restaurateurs make frequent trips to the bank, and they should be making it a point to request a sufficient number of small bills from the bank each visit.

Otherwise, when I've got a $20 and three $1s and the bill is $10, they'll have the option of getting $3 or making change for the $20. Not suprisingly, whenever it comes down to this the business in question magically comes up with the change for the $20, despite any protests about not being able to break the $20 that they may have given me before.

Despite what some think, I'm the customer, not the restaurant. Services exist to service customers - not the other way around.

To a point I agree with you, however, I repeat: Restaurants aren't banks . There are plenty of reasons why the restaurant might not have change. Some restaurants actually receive little or no cash. Credit and debit cards make up a large portion of the receipts.

As far as service, try getting on a bus with a twenty dollar bill. Or go to McDonalds with a $100. I suppose if the US Govt started re-issuing $500 and $1,000 bills, you'd argue that the restaurants should have adequate change to handle those situations too.

I worked in a restaurant for a while when I was in college ages ago.

Never assume the waiter can't make proper change. Restaurants and businesses often are short $1's and $5's when they make change, so at times, they are going to attempt to not give the smaller bills out.

Don't blame the waiter. And, don't blame the management either. Who can predict when there is a run on $1's and $5's? The drawer has only so much working funds.

I worked in a restaurant for a while when I was in college ages ago.

Never assume the waiter can't make proper change. Restaurants and businesses often are short $1's and $5's when they make change, so at times, they are going to attempt to not give the smaller bills out.

Don't blame the waiter. And, don't blame the management either. Who can predict when there is a run on $1's and $5's? The drawer has only so much working funds.

EXACTLY

Actually, I've been married 26 years.

And as to #3, 95% of your problems come from 5% of of your customers. Lose them and you've eliminated most of your problems. The customer is not always right. The three dollar tippers are taking up valuable space.

If a server wants a better tip, he/she will give me the appropriate change with which to make it. If you don't want $3, then give me other choices.

Your attitude helps to explain the difficulty in getting proper service today. So many workers have a sense of entitlement and don't want to make the effort to help themselves.

Your attitude helps to explain the difficulty in getting proper service today. So many workers have a sense of entitlement and don't want to make the effort to help themselves.

That's the problem with the world, not enough beatings.

Although, a simple, "Sorry I need you to break this twenty" would quickly get to the root of the issue; there's just no excuse to be cheap

There are many reasons for poor service, however, everybody has their own idea of what constitutes proper service. I am a regular at several restaurants and they roll out the red carpet when I come. Naturally, I tip well and they remember that. I would never be so anal as to confuse the meal service with an expectation of receiving precisely the denomiation of change that I think I deserve. Talk about entitlement, why burden a restaurant with large bills? The easiest way to get poor service is to be a cheap tipper, or question pricing, or
portion size. Lose the arrogance and lighten up!

That's the problem with the world, not enough beatings.

Although, a simple, "Sorry I need you to break this twenty" would quickly get to the root of the issue; there's just no excuse to be cheap

There are many reasons for poor service, however, everybody has their own idea of what constitutes proper service. I am a regular at several restaurants and they roll out the red carpet when I come. Naturally, I tip well and they remember that. I would never be so anal as to confuse the meal service with an expectation of receiving precisely the denomiation of change that I think I deserve. Talk about entitlement, why burden a restaurant with large bills? The easiest way to get poor service is to be a cheap tipper, or question pricing, or
portion size. Loose the arrogance and lighten up!

Yet another stellar example of how to use the word "loose" here on FT. :rolleyes:

If a restaurant feels "burdened" by my $100, I can assure you that there are many other dining establishments that would be happy to provide the "proper" change for my "large bill". Again, I don't think you're seeing the point here - I'm the customer. If the restaurant wants to stay in business, it will do whatever it can to appease its customers, not its waitstaff.

well, if you have that attitude..stick to McDonalds!! Waiting tables is very hard work especially when you have to deal with cheap people

That is certainly not my problem, is it. I tip quite handsomely when I get good service. When I get subpar service, the tip reflects that too. It works both ways with me.

Part of operating a business, such as a restaurant, is being prepared to make change. Restaurateurs make frequent trips to the bank, and they should be making it a point to request a sufficient number of small bills from the bank each visit.

Otherwise, when I've got a $20 and three $1s and the bill is $10, they'll have the option of getting $3 or making change for the $20. Not suprisingly, whenever it comes down to this the business in question magically comes up with the change for the $20, despite any protests about not being able to break the $20 that they may have given me before.

Despite what some think, I'm the customer, not the restaurant. Services exist to service customers - not the other way around.

there are a bunch of people who are thinking the same way you are. if all of you came into the same restaurant on the same day. and all paid with big bills. do you think they would have enough change? and also add the countless others who dont post on here that do the same. now do you think the restaurant "plans" for this? can you efficiently plan for this?

there are a bunch of people who are thinking the same way you are. if all of you came into the same restaurant on the same day. and all paid with big bills. do you think they would have enough change? and also add the countless others who dont post on here that do the same. now do you think the restaurant "plans" for this? can you efficiently plan for this?

Absolutely. I have never had the experience in which I was told that there was no change. I have rarely had a waiter so stupid that he didn't give me change in various denominations so I could give him a good tip.

That said, the restaurants are business to serve customers. If the customers aren't happy, they won't return. Without customers, the businesses will fail.....like in any business. This really isn't rocket science.

there are a bunch of people who are thinking the same way you are. if all of you came into the same restaurant on the same day. and all paid with big bills. do you think they would have enough change? and also add the countless others who dont post on here that do the same. now do you think the restaurant "plans" for this? can you efficiently plan for this?

This should be the easiest task a restaurant has to perform. They make bank runs on a regular basis (certainly daily) and should NEVER have insufficient levels of cash in a wide variety of denominations to make change. This is a fundamental part of operating a restaurant (or any retail business for that matter). Any restaurant that doesn't have a banking relationship to sufficiently mitigate this risk has big problems. "Efficiently planning" for this is simple.

...is a reflection of bad service. Making you wait at the end of the mea for something that should have been so obvious, makes him/her deserving of getting stiffed. Short of an explanation "sorry we didnt have any small bills in the till" I think you did the right thing. However I wouldnt go back to eat there for a while :D


Wow. You wouldn't go back to eat at a restaurant because the waiter brought you two 20s instead of a 20, 10 and two 5s?? :confused:

You are one tough cookie.



On a separate note, admins please retitle this thread "Much Ado About Nothing."

Absolutely. I have never had the experience in which I was told that there was no change. I have rarely had a waiter so stupid that he didn't give me change in various denominations so I could give him a good tip.

That said, the restaurants are business to serve customers. If the customers aren't happy, they won't return. Without customers, the businesses will fail.....like in any business. This really isn't rocket science.

wow im astonished. im not going to "flame" or get into an argument. but wow, thats all i can say and ill leave it at that. ill let everyone else hash this out. im done posting to this thread. i guess i have the minority position on this.

wow im astonished. im not going to "flame" or get into an argument. but wow, thats all i can say and ill leave it at that. ill let everyone else hash this out. im done posting to this thread. i guess i have the minority position on this.

I was never intending on getting into some kind of flame war; if that is your perception of me, I offer my apologies. I dine out often and as such, I have never had a waiter not give me change in tens, fives and ones. I should say, give my husband such change because when I pay, I always use my credit card. :D

If anything, I'm seeing an attack on restaurant patrons. I am astonished that there are waiters who see that the customer's need for change as something negative and inconvenient. If it weren't for customers, they wouldn't have a job. If I decided that my customers' needs were beneath me, my company would lose customers quickly to my competition who would delight in satisfying my client base.

I was never intending on getting into some kind of flame war; if that is your perception of me, I offer my apologies. I dine out often and as such, I have never had a waiter not give me change in tens, fives and ones. I should say, give my husband such change because when I pay, I always use my credit card. :D

If anything, I'm seeing an attack on restaurant patrons. I am astonished that there are waiters who see that the customer's need for change as something negative and inconvenient. If it weren't for customers, they wouldn't have a job. If I decided that my customers' needs were beneath me, my company would lose customers quickly to my competition who would delight in satisfying my client base.

Well said.

I was never intending on getting into some kind of flame war; if that is your perception of me, I offer my apologies.

no apology needed, i sent you a pm. just two different opinions.

there are a bunch of people who are thinking the same way you are. if all of you came into the same restaurant on the same day. and all paid with big bills. do you think they would have enough change? and also add the countless others who dont post on here that do the same. now do you think the restaurant "plans" for this? can you efficiently plan for this?
Restaurants typically send someone to the bank every day. It's easy to plan to be prepared.

I have a lot of family in the restaurant business, and my parents used to be concert promoters. Before a concert, where they knew they'd have thousands of people and need to be able to make a huge amount of change, they'd just call ahead to the bank and place an order for enough currency in small denominations.

If the restaurant wants to stay in business, it will do whatever it can to appease its customers, not its waitstaff.

That's your opinion, and it probably applies to some restaurants. Certainly not all.

That's your opinion, and it probably applies to some restaurants. Certainly not all.

If some restaurants look down on catering to their customers requests, their competition will do it for them. It's all about pleasing the customer; that's how all businesses stay in business. It's that simple.

If some restaurants look down on catering to their customers requests, their competition will do it for them. It's all about pleasing the customer; that's how all businesses stay in business. It's that simple.

OK, then how do you explain International Soup Kitchen (NY) (A/K/A The Soup Nazi) assuming you've see Seinfeld. Realize it's a portrayal.....


It is High. It is Far. It is.., No it was Caught!

OK, then how do you explain International Soup Kitchen (NY) (A/K/A The Soup Nazi) assuming you've see Seinfeld. Realize it's a portrayal.....

I've been there a few times. It's a Seinfeld portrayal. Yet the soup, while good, is not worth the price. But that's just me. Besides, some New Yorkers plus the tourists will take a lot of abuse to get food they really like or be at "name" locations which have the cache but not the service....unless your name is Trump.

Obviously that's an extreme, as is "the customer is always right" philosophy; and that is my point.

Obviously that's an extreme, as is "the customer is always right" philosophy; and that is my point.

What's your point? I'm lost. The customer IS typically always right. With the exception of abusive customers (and they exist is all industries too), businesses need to cater to those who give them business. If you don't, someone else will.

Most restaurants aren't so well known that they can get away with horrid service.

That's your opinion, and it probably applies to some restaurants. Certainly not all.

Show me a restaurant to which this doesn't apply, and I'll show you a restaurant just waiting to go out of business. They might have the happiest waitstaff in history, but if no diners pass through their doors, those servers will be looking for work elsewhere. I'll even expand this to "any retail establishment". I can't think of a successful retailer founded on the idea of annoying customers but pleasing its staff.

So the bill is $57 and from a $100 bill I receive back two $20s and three ones. I say the proper tip is $3. Your opinion?
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The depth of this discussion about tipping amazes me... not knowing other circumstances I'd say the waiter didn't return one $20 two $10 and three $1 because this may have implicitly suggested he's out for a $10 tip which would be a couple % over the customary 15%.... If this is the case the waiter showed an excellent education and sense of serenity unlike the patron who didn't ask him kindly if he might be able to break up a $20 ....

How much easier is it in countries where a legally mandatory flat 15% service charge is added to all bills (i.e. several European countries). No discussion needed, no humiliating evaluation huge egos, easy expense reports, happy waiters, happy IRS.... :)

Have a pleasant day

Dieter

Show me a restaurant to which this doesn't apply, and I'll show you a restaurant just waiting to go out of business. They might have the happiest waitstaff in history, but if no diners pass through their doors, those servers will be looking for work elsewhere. I'll even expand this to "any retail establishment". I can't think of a successful retailer founded on the idea of annoying customers but pleasing its staff.

I missed where this has anything to do with pleasing the waitstaff??? To answer your other point, take a look at Pasta Nostra in South Norwalk. (noticed you're from White Plains).
The owner is probably the most obnoxious, abusive individual you will ever find. He makes the Soup Nazi seem like Mother Theresa. He might throw you out of the restaurant if you suggest a different sauce than listed on the menu. No exaggeration! The restaurant is open when he feels like it and he does it his way. If the customer doesn't agree, tough s***. He once threw a customer out for asking for butter instead of Olive Oil with his bread. Guess what, the restaurant is always full and customers swear by the food.

Someone wrote a letter criticising him. He had it enlarged to poster size and plastered it all over the store front. He's been there 20+ years and he'll be there 20 more. He charges double what any similar restaurant would charge and it's a hole in the wall. When you're not McDonald's you don't have to worry about pissing off a few (thousand) people. If the food's good people come back.

Pepe's Pizza in New Haven, most ornery waitstaff I've ever seen. There's a line sometimes 2 hours long to get in. People standing in the rain (or snow) down the sidewalk waiting for great Pizza (not as good as it used to be). If you have a complaint, talk to the wall.

I eat out 7 days per week, I've seen it all; most of the kiss a** restaurants do so because they've become proficient at having to apologize. If your product sucks you better be nice to the customers.

What's your point? I'm lost. The customer IS typically always right. With the exception of abusive customers (and they exist is all industries too), businesses need to cater to those who give them business. If you don't, someone else will.

Most restaurants aren't so well known that they can get away with horrid service.

I guess we've gotten off track somewhat.

1) This started out as disagreeing with the thought of a reduced tip because the change differed from the expected denomination.

2) A disagreement that the change amounted to poor service to the point of justifying the reduced tip.

3) A suggestion that restaurants should adhere to the adage, "the customer is always right". I disagree

4) The statement that not following the dictum of #3 above spells doom for the restaurant. I disagree

This thread is a perfect example of why I often 'roll my eyes' when reading FlyerTalk.

There are so many people on here who make ridiculous amounts of money yet toss around dimes as if they were manhole covers. And then there's the unintended hilarity of the poster who complained about service workers' "sense of entitlement" -- oh, that's rich!

To answer the original question: No, you're not obligated to tip more than $3. In fact, you're not obligated to leave anything at all if you don't feel like it.

But if the service was otherwise friendly and adequate, IMO using a last-minute oversight as an excuse to leave a 5-percent tip for someone who probably makes three bucks an hour... well, let's just say it doesn't reflect all that well on you.

Of course, on this board, I'm sure you'll have plenty of folks cheering you on for keeping the "help" in their place.

If the bill is $57, make sure there's a 5, a 10, and at least a few smaller ones... so that the customer can leave what he/she feels is appropriate... because everyone tips different.

In a situation where they don't have the right change handy, most will leave less, not more...

This is the poster's main point... and it just shows how different waiters put emphasis on only part of thier job (either that or he just didn't have it that day).

It's not uncommon for me to have to bring $200-400 of my own money, to make change for my customers... most people wouldn't bring money from home like a waiter is expected to... just info people may not think about.

***********

As for the saying 'The customer's always right'. To us it really means 'The waiter's always wrong'
You'd be amazed at the stories that are made up.

This thread is a perfect example of why I ...


All I can say it WOW! One heck of a 1st post!

Congrats! and WELCOME to FlyerTalk!

Gotta love it when people give thier undiluted opinions... You'll do just fine here. :cool:

To answer the original question: No, you're not obligated to tip more than $3. In fact, you're not obligated to leave anything at all if you don't feel like it.

But if the service was otherwise friendly and adequate, IMO using a last-minute oversight as an excuse to leave a 5-percent tip for someone who probably makes three bucks an hour... well, let's just say it doesn't reflect all that well on you.

i have never worked in a "high class" restaurant for this exact reason. waitering is not my life only to help supplement my travel habit. i think some of the posters here dine in all different types of restaurants. we are all thinking of our own dining preferences. some spend more than others, expect more etc. tipping is a art for some others its just a last thought. i will agree with the way your tip reflects upon the person giving it the same way a tip is a reflection on the person receiving it. like analise and i have talked about. ny restaurants are completly different from green bay restaurants. and because of this we have different views which is good. just remember this, making three bucks an hour and counting on your tips is hard work.

If the bill is $57, make sure there's a 5, a 10, and at least a few smaller ones... so that the customer can leave what he/she feels is appropriate... because everyone tips different.

In a situation where they don't have the right change handy, most will leave less, not more...

This is the poster's main point... and it just shows how different waiters put emphasis on only part of thier job (either that or he just didn't have it that day).

It's not uncommon for me to have to bring $200-400 of my own money, to make change for my customers... most people wouldn't bring money from home like a waiter is expected to... just info people may not think about.

***********

As for the saying 'The customer's always right'. To us it really means 'The waiter's always wrong'
You'd be amazed at the stories that are made up.

I applaud your thinking. I hope that your efforts are being rewarded.

I missed where this has anything to do with pleasing the waitstaff??? To answer your other point, take a look at Pasta Nostra in South Norwalk. (noticed you're from White Plains).
The owner is probably the most obnoxious, abusive individual you will ever find. He makes the Soup Nazi seem like Mother Theresa. He might throw you out of the restaurant if you suggest a different sauce than listed on the menu. No exaggeration! The restaurant is open when he feels like it and he does it his way. If the customer doesn't agree, tough s***. He once threw a customer out for asking for butter instead of Olive Oil with his bread. Guess what, the restaurant is always full and customers swear by the food.

Someone wrote a letter criticising him. He had it enlarged to poster size and plastered it all over the store front. He's been there 20+ years and he'll be there 20 more. He charges double what any similar restaurant would charge and it's a hole in the wall. When you're not McDonald's you don't have to worry about pissing off a few (thousand) people. If the food's good people come back.

I eat out 7 days per week, I've seen it all; most of the kiss a** restaurants do so because they've become proficient at having to apologize. If your product sucks you better be nice to the customers.

To refresh your memory, the comments about pleasing the waitstaff started with post #53 (mine) and your response in post #64.

3) A suggestion that restaurants should adhere to the adage, "the customer is always right". I disagree

4) The statement that not following the dictum of #3 above spells doom for the restaurant. I disagree

It is doom for most other businesses. I've been to Pepe's in New Haven and found the service to be fine. I guess I was lucky? ;) The customer IS always right unless the customer is abusive.

In a situation where they don't have the right change handy, most will leave less, not more...

That's why I am stunned waiters wouldn't provide change in various denominations. I have rarely ever seen that.

As for the saying 'The customer's always right'. To us it really means 'The waiter's always wrong'. You'd be amazed at the stories that are made up.

That's also in other industries as well. :( People like that fall into my "abusive" category.

All this tipping talk makes me worried! As an Australian living in Korea, and travelling only in Asia, I have very rarely tipped- taxi drivers in Korea hand the coins back when there is change- fare is 3100won, so I gave 4-1000 notes, and I get 900won in coins- BTW, 4000won is about 4US$

My fiancee and I have a trip to Canada and the US (New York, Toronto, DC and San Francisco) coming up in the near future. Are there any hard rules in regards to tipping- cab drivers, hotel staff, waiters? Is there a big difference in US vs Canadian tipping? Should I tip more in NYC than SFO...I'm not cheap, but I don't want to tip to little, or too much.

An Australian friend suggested that for places other than NYC we tip 10%, but in NYC tip 15-20% Does this seem right?

Thanks for your assistance to a novice tipper :D

To refresh your memory, the comments about pleasing the waitstaff started with post #53 (mine) and your response in post #64.



If there is any truth in reincarnation, for your sake, I hope you never come back as a waiter. That said, I think we've beat this to the core.

Restaurants should raise their prices so that they are able to fairly compensate their employees without them having to rely on tips. Perhaps, if you're naive you think that waiters get paid a fair salary and tips are a bonus. Not so.

The majority of patrons tip fairly, there are some who are plain cheap, others over compensate. The European system of service fee added makes sense. NEXT SUBJECT.

An Australian friend suggested that for places other than NYC we tip 10%, but in NYC tip 15-20% Does this seem right?

The tip, although always optional, should be based on service... with good service rewarded, and lowsy service penalized.

The 15-20% recommended is appropriate for all of North America... I do a 10%-20+% ratio... with a occasional 0%, both large and zero tips 'only when it deserves it'.

My fiancee and I have a trip to Canada and the US (New York, Toronto, DC and San Francisco) coming up in the near future. Are there any hard rules in regards to tipping- cab drivers, hotel staff, waiters? Is there a big difference in US vs Canadian tipping? Should I tip more in NYC than SFO...I'm not cheap, but I don't want to tip to little, or too much.

An Australian friend suggested that for places other than NYC we tip 10%, but in NYC tip 15-20% Does this seem right?

Thanks for your assistance to a novice tipper :D

In the US, tipping should be the same percentage. In NYC for restaurants, the easiest way to tip is to double the tax. From there, if you thought the service was especially good, add more. If it were adequate, remain the same. If the server really disappointed you, tip less. For inexpensive meals (like breakfast in a coffee shop), overtip. Just because the food you order is less expensive, it doesn't mean the work the waiters did for you is any less. I always overtip at breakfast.

For taxis, add a few dollars to the metered fare.

For inexpensive meals (like breakfast in a coffee shop), overtip. Just because the food you order is less expensive, it doesn't mean the work the waiters did for you is any less. I always overtip at breakfast.

Glad you brought that up! I've always wondered how someone could leave a .60 tip for a four dollar breakfast. I agree, I always leave a non-percentage tip for small items like breakfast. Sometimes the tip is larger than the meal itself. ^

I always leave generous tips for the wench or oaf who serves me and, in return, they don't object to my failing to refer to them as "waitpersons".