I used to travel weekly on US Airways Express(Air Midest)between MCI and GCK (Garden City, KS) while working as a consultant before 9/11. I remember the high winds, unpredictable Western Kansas weather, the open cockpit doors and the VERY young pilots made for an adventure each time I was on one of these aircraft.

Has the experience changed much on these aircraft?? Since 9/11, do they still leave the cockpit doors open throughout the flight>?>? Do the new weight restrictions on aircraft cause the B1900's to go overweight often?? Are the pilots still look like they just graduated high school??

I have 8 B1900 flights in the next 5 months (to LEB and back) and Im actually looking forward to that loud cramped cabin with no drinks or FA's, no bathroom and enough turbulence to qualify as the best roller coaster ride in America!

Nothing has changed since your last B1900 flight.

The last time I flew one of these guys was a LONG time ago, but the BeechCraft 1900D doesn't have cockpit doors. It would cost a heck a lot to retrofit these with doors. I don't believe they got them. Since the B1900s are operated by pilots at the lowest pay scale, it's usual going to be the junior agents.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/74/18/ (Mesa, for examples)

Gulfstream flies a whole fleet of them to my island from Florida, usually with young pilots, no doors, just a curtain.

It makes for a 'fun' ride over to Florida sometimes when its windy over the open seas. My most memorable experience was when I was the only passenger on the plane frpm MIA and got to look through the front window during landing, it was also very windy that day, so it was quite an interesting landing =)

It makes for a 'fun' ride over to Florida sometimes when its windy over the open seas. My most memorable experience was when I was the only passenger on the plane frpm MIA and got to look through the front window during landing, it was also very windy that day, so it was quite an interesting landing =)

Western Kansas in the summer is the same way. It can be a perfectly clear night and the wind across the plains can gust 25-30 miles per hour. I agree, makes for a very "interesting" landing.

But the best has to be flying a B1900 in a thunderstorm. I fly alot and it was the only time Ive ever been scared on an aircraft.

The Air Midwest B1900D's flying out of PIT have a two-part sliding cockpit door. On my trip up to Watertown on Sunday, they closed it going and coming right before engine start. Unfortunately, as I was seated in 1A, it was very dark and boring from that point on.

Unfortunately, as I was seated in 1A, it was very dark and boring from that point on.

Then count your blessings because excitement on a B1900 is not something you want to experience. I will not book and will cancel any flight on a B1900. Just simply not going to go there.

Then count your blessings because excitement on a B1900 is not something you want to experience. I will not book and will cancel any flight on a B1900. Just simply not going to go there.

I have no problem with the B1900D... I find it quite fun. Then again, I'm also a licensed commercial mutli-engine pilot so I don't frighten easily and quite enjoy small planes (I love riding on commuters a lot more than those rustbucket piece of crap B737s US cranks around the sky).

I have no problem with the B1900D... I find it quite fun. Then again, I'm also a licensed commercial mutli-engine pilot so I don't frighten easily and quite enjoy small planes (I love riding on commuters a lot more than those rustbucket piece of crap B737s US cranks around the sky).
To each his own. Being frightened is not my concern on a B1900. I fly enough in a year to experience a little bit of everything. Being on a roller coaster in the sky does not bother me.

I actually like the 1900s, maybe because I haven't been on one in years and have only flown on them four or five times. I remember about four or five years ago, my ITH-PIT-DCA was canceled due to weather-- but for some mysterious reason, the ITH-IAD Express flight was still a go (equally mysterious-- why an ITH-IAD nonstop? Colgan presumably). We took it through the storms; the FA gave us cans during the drink service because they would be less spill/splash-prone amidst the turbulence. Nowadays they'd probably be told to cancel it altogether.

I kind of imagined it how flying was in the 1930s; single seat down each side of the plane, reading a newspaper, fiddling with earplugs. And flying low, you could make out more on the ground during the occasional break in the clouds. Hopeless romantic, I know... :)

To each his own. Being frightened is not my concern on a B1900. I fly enough in a year to experience a little bit of everything. Being on a roller coaster in the sky does not bother me.

With the average weight increase (and another forthcoming... get ready for more bump possibilities) and increased scrutiny on that matter, I feel perfectly safe on these planes. And control problems.... haven't happened too much and not quite as bad as what happened with the B737s a decade ago.

Having the doors open makes the flight alot more interesting and brighter.

I actually like the 1900s, maybe because I haven't been on one in years and have only flown on them four or five times. I remember about four or five years ago, my ITH-PIT-DCA was canceled due to weather-- but for some mysterious reason, the ITH-IAD Express flight was still a go (equally mysterious-- why an ITH-IAD nonstop? Colgan presumably). We took it through the storms; the FA gave us cans during the drink service because they would be less spill/splash-prone amidst the turbulence. Nowadays they'd probably be told to cancel it altogether.

I kind of imagined it how flying was in the 1930s; single seat down each side of the plane, reading a newspaper, fiddling with earplugs. And flying low, you could make out more on the ground during the occasional break in the clouds. Hopeless romantic, I know... :)

If there were FA's you werent on a B1900. Unless they had them a looooonnnggg time ago. The B1900 has no FA's and no bathroom. Sit down, shut up, strap in and hope you went before you got on!

Sit down, shut up, strap in and hope you went before you got on!

Or take a GATS jar with you. :)
(those who have flown small planes will know what I'm talking about... they aren't just for straining fuel samples)

The last time I flew one of these guys was a LONG time ago, but the BeechCraft 1900D doesn't have cockpit doors. It would cost a heck a lot to retrofit these with doors. I don't believe they got them. Since the B1900s are operated by pilots at the lowest pay scale, it's usual going to be the junior agents.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/74/18/ (Mesa, for examples)

$19 per hour for a 1st year first officer. Even the most junior pilot should earn more than that. They b1tch and moan that the 767 pilots shouldn't have their 200K+ salaries reduced, and then they screw the little guy. I think it was in the fine print of the Samuel Gompers Papers that it was written you should screw the little guy.

How does one become a commercial pilot- go to Embry riddle or some other pilot college, or retire from the air force?

I flew on B1900 yesterday LGA-LEB and back. I was on a $2 ticket cmh-dca-lga-leb-lga-leb The scenery was very good flying over Manhattan and then over Long Island and back into lga. I used to be scared in small planes but yesterday was so pretty out that I really enjoyed the flight from lga-leb and back. By the way for all the people going to LEB this summer it was a very nice little airport. The staff was very friendly. They have 3 TSA people on duty all day long and they only have one flight every 3 hours or so. Their were 6 people on plane going up and 8 coming back.

Or take a GATS jar with you. :)
(those who have flown small planes will know what I'm talking about... they aren't just for straining fuel samples)

Make sure you have the Lady J Adapter ;)

Or take a GATS jar with you. :)
(those who have flown small planes will know what I'm talking about... they aren't just for straining fuel samples)

Well at least in a Cheyenne III we had a Monica (think the famous White House intern) tube to for relief.

But the best has to be flying a B1900 in a thunderstorm. I fly alot and it was the only time Ive ever been scared on an aircraft.

Same here. My last time on a B1900 was an almost full, late afternoon RDU-CHS flight a couple of years ago, knowing we were facing some summer storms along the way. Just before giving the safety demonstration, the FO tells us "There are reports of some weather up ahead...we're going to try to make it through it, but if not we'll just head over to Charlotte for the night." That certainly got our attention!

An hour and a half later we're on the ground in CHS -- easily my most nerve-racking flying experience. The FO comes out of the cockpit, grinning ear to ear says "How did y'all like that ride??? You should have seen the light show from up here!" I'm not sure anyone actually appreciated that...and I swore that I had taken my last B1900 flight ever.

And then the $2 fares come along...MRs are so addictive! ;)

I, too, have been on scores of bad flights -- including two engine flameouts, an engine explosion (on a 727-200 in ROA on PI) on touchdown, and an emergency evacuation due to a bomb threat off of an F28.

None of those were as unnerving as a B1900 flight (Commutair) from LGA - PWM about 5 years ago. It was probably February and the winter weather was upon us. The storms were significant and we were watching all the other airlines (incl US) cancel mainline flights all around us. DL's MD88 cancelled, AA's 757 cancelled, etc. We knew it was a matter of time before our baby B1900 cancelled, too. To our surprise, the captain came into the terminal and shouted aloud for all the pax for flight 5966 (or whatever) to approach him.

We all did (nearly full flight, I think) and he advised us that they were going to "attempt" the flight. Trouble was, the loads were heavy and the storms were going to be a challenge to navigate. We could either have 3 pax drop off or agree as a group to have NONE of our baggage shipped along with us. Weird, right?

Well, that was enough to drum up three volunteers right away (there was NO compensation, mind you). So the rest of us got on the plane. While we were waiting for the bags to be loaded, one of the pax sort of had a panic attack and went a little off the deep end -- I guess thinking about it all. She was led off the plane commenting about the safety of our flight and how she would advise us all to get off at once, etc. Very unsettling.

Long story short -- once the doors were closed and we were taxiing, another pax began to have a panic attack but was too scared (or embarrassed) to get up and notify the crew. He sat there, but was clearly in major psychological trouble. That just made the rest of us very uncomfortable and very nervous. Frankly, I wanted the flight to cancel at that point. Just a little too spooky for my taste. Eventually, we all made it to Maine. I can't even remember the details of the flight since we were all white knuckled, I guess, and sort of numb. Lived to tell about it, though.

I still wonder why LGA was virtually shutting down and our little tiny B1900 -- surely the smallest commercial aircraft servicing that airport, completed its scheduled flight out.

Like many of you, that night I vowed to never do the B1900 thing again. Shortly thereafter, the B1900 flights were dropped outright from PWM (when Commutair left the US fold).

I flew on the B1900s regularly between CKB and PIT for a few years. I always looked at the flight as a quick way to pick up 1000 miles for about a 25 minute ride (back when I was CP).

Slightly off topic, I remember about 10-12 years ago riding on a little plane from PHL to SCE; it was smaller than the B1900, and I distinctly remember that the only person who could stand upright on that plane without hitting their head was my 6 year old son. Anybody remember what this plane was?

The safety discussion reminds me of a 1900 flight I had a few years back on MCI-ICT when Air Midwest still flew that route for US. It was November I think, with mist and a little snow here or there. We got up to "cruise" at maybe 14000 feet in the clouds, and then suddenly they put the aircraft into a steep dive, more than enough to alarm everyone, even though those of us up front could see them doing this. When we leveled - at maybe 2000 feet just under the cloud ceilings - the FO/FA turned around and said "don't worry folks, we just need to melt the ice off the wings".

A lady in row 1 or 2 asked what would happen if we didn't, and he said "we'd have a situation" which shut her up. Now, I don't know what kind of engine and wing anti-ice systems the 1900 has - I know larger planes do have such systems - but it either wasn't working or wasn't enough that day. I guess the lower cruising speed also makes ice less likely to get blown off.

One interesting thing about the 1900 is that if you have, say seats 1A or 1F, most of the 1900's I've been on have no cockpit door and you get a pretty good view of what's going on in the cockpit and you may be able to see the radar screen. That said, I haven't been on one since 2002 and I'm not rushing back on one by choice, so maybe they've put cockpit doors on all of them by now.

Another aircraft I strongly dislike and have been on more recently is the Jetstream J41, aka the Junkstream. I avoid these as well, something that's been easier since DH stopped flying for United Express and parked them. IAD-PHL used to get them a lot, and whenever I flew UA to Europe it was a jarring experience to roll out of business class on a UA 777 after crossing the pond onto one of those things. The UA and US sites still list them as part of the Express networks, so I suppose I might still find myself on one.

I'll take even an old Dash-8 over these things any day.

I have no problem with the B1900D... I find it quite fun. Then again, I'm also a licensed commercial mutli-engine pilot so I don't frighten easily and quite enjoy small planes (I love riding on commuters a lot more than those rustbucket piece of crap B737s US cranks around the sky).

Yeah, well, up until recently none of the rustbucket 737s were sent out to third part maintenance contracters in West Virginia to have their elevator trip cables misrigged thus contributing to a flaming crater in CLT's taxiway.

I'm a licensed private pilot with an instrument and multi ticket, and I avoid the 1900s like the plauge--it's not the fresh faced kids up front that'll kill you--it's the non-english speakers doing the maintenance.

Not me yet.

Yeah, well, up until recently none of the rustbucket 737s were sent out to third part maintenance contracters in West Virginia to have their elevator trip cables misrigged thus contributing to a flaming crater in CLT's taxiway.


No, it was just a rudder control unit problem that ground a planeload of US passengers into a hillside outside Pittsburgh and a bunch of UA folks into a park in Colorado Springs, and nearly killed a planeload of Eastwind folks too.

Third party maintenance can be safe. Of course, there's always the risk of mistakes.

The person who performed a faulty procedure on an EMB-120 prop that later came apartin flight bringing an ASA flight down into somebody's back yard spoke English quite well.

If you really want to get into it, there's no real correlation between third party maintenance and crashes. Of course, you are welcome to limit your search criteria to select aircraft and years, but if you narrow things that much you can make statistics show anything.

The safety discussion reminds me of a 1900 flight I had a few years back on MCI-ICT when Air Midwest still flew that route for US. It was November I think, with mist and a little snow here or there. We got up to "cruise" at maybe 14000 feet in the clouds, and then suddenly they put the aircraft into a steep dive, more than enough to alarm everyone, even though those of us up front could see them doing this. When we leveled - at maybe 2000 feet just under the cloud ceilings - the FO/FA turned around and said "don't worry folks, we just need to melt the ice off the wings".

A lady in row 1 or 2 asked what would happen if we didn't, and he said "we'd have a situation" which shut her up. Now, I don't know what kind of engine and wing anti-ice systems the 1900 has - I know larger planes do have such systems - but it either wasn't working or wasn't enough that day. I guess the lower cruising speed also makes ice less likely to get blown off.

One interesting thing about the 1900 is that if you have, say seats 1A or 1F, most of the 1900's I've been on have no cockpit door and you get a pretty good view of what's going on in the cockpit and you may be able to see the radar screen. That said, I haven't been on one since 2002 and I'm not rushing back on one by choice, so maybe they've put cockpit doors on all of them by now.

Another aircraft I strongly dislike and have been on more recently is the Jetstream J41, aka the Junkstream. I avoid these as well, something that's been easier since DH stopped flying for United Express and parked them. IAD-PHL used to get them a lot, and whenever I flew UA to Europe it was a jarring experience to roll out of business class on a UA 777 after crossing the pond onto one of those things. The UA and US sites still list them as part of the Express networks, so I suppose I might still find myself on one.

I'll take even an old Dash-8 over these things any day.

The junkstream can be found in GSO,PIT,BWI,SYR,RIC,ERI,ABE,TYS,AVP,MHT, and a few other places on any given day.

Funny you should ask ... took the ol' Beech IAD-LWB (Greenbrier, WV) on Friday and then LWB-CLT on Saturday. I thought the pilots were great, though we did fly through a couple of cells on the IAD-LWB leg.

Was surprised to hear the 3 TSA folks were on duty at LWB all day Saturday ... particularly since they only had one flight out that day.

Cheers,

Hoya

No, it was just a rudder control unit problem that ground a planeload of US passengers into a hillside outside Pittsburgh and a bunch of UA folks into a park in Colorado Springs, and nearly killed a planeload of Eastwind folks too.

That was a design issue on the Boeing 737, which has since been rectified.

Third party maintenance can be safe. Of course, there's always the risk of mistakes.

Tell that to the 21 people who died in CLT. Here is the NTSB probable cause finding, verbatum. I'll bold various parts to shamelessly illustrate my point:

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows.

The airplane's loss of pitch control during take-off. The loss of pitch control resulted from the incorrect rigging of the elevator system compounded by the airplane's aft center of gravity, which was substaintially aft of the certified aft limit.

Contributing to the cause of the accident were

(1) Air Midwest's lack of oversight of the work being performed at the Huntington, West Virginia, maintenance station; (2) Air Midwest's maintenance procedures and documentation; (3) Air Midwest's weight and balance program at the time of the accident; (4) the Raytehon Aerospace quality assurance inspector's failure to detect the incorrect rigging of the
elevator control system; (5) the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) average weight assumptions in its weight and balance program guidance at the time of the accident; and (6) the FAA's lack of oversight of Air Midwest's maintenance program and its weight and balance program.

I wonder if that would have happened at an outfit like US, where virtually everyone who touches an airplane has the A&P license. The ratio at the facility in quesiton is about 3 to 1, unlicensed to licensed (or was, at the time of the work in quesiton). No pencil whipping there.

If you really want to get into it, there's no real correlation between third party maintenance and crashes. Of course, you are welcome to limit your search criteria to select aircraft and years, but if you narrow things that much you can make statistics show anything.

See above. If you really think the third party shops don't cut corners, why did the very first airbus out of overhaul in Alabama have a flaps-out landing the next day?