just in:
What will this mean for my US miles? Should I burn them in a hurry (before they break ties with the other star alliance members?)

BC-USAirways-AmericaWest 04-19 0147
BC-US Airways-America West,
URGENT
US Airways chairman says airline in advanced merger talks with
America West
MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- US Airways Group Inc. and America West
are in advanced discussions to merge, creating a national low-cost
airline that would better compete with discount rivals and
complement each other geographically, US Airways' chairman said
Tuesday night.
Bankrupt US Airways has approached several rival carriers about
a merger, but discussions with America West have progressed the
farthest, Chairman David Bronner said in an interview with The
Associated Press.
No deal is imminent, and numerous issues must still be resolved,
he said.
"A lot of things will happen in the U.S. airline in the next 12
to 18 months," Bronner said. "We'll do whatever we need to
survive."
(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

It mean : miles are safe. If US would go Ch7 then You should burn them in a hurry.

My bigger worries are what happens to the European routes and the *A affiliation.

The thought of hubs in LAS and PHX with better service to west coast cities is nice. Wonder which name survives? I'm betting against US.

I think Bronner wants to make US work because he never wants to fail at anything. I would be willing to bet that RSA brings money to the table along with Air Wisconsin and Republic to make this deal happen.

The big question is the employees and the unions????????

My bigger worries are what happens to the European routes and the *A affiliation.

The thought of hubs in LAS and PHX with better service to west coast cities is nice. Wonder which name survives? I'm betting against US.


All the articles say they are keeping the US Airways name, I don't think they will drop European routes HP will just feed more people onto the flights.

I would think US would add flights to JFK since HP already has gates and staff this would allow *A airlines to conntect to PHL, CLT, DCA maybe PIT, FLL, and BOS which would give them more access to the US network.

It means that you will now be able to redeem miles to Hawaii on USAirways.

Typically in the past when US or anyone dropped a partner, you still had a few months to book travel on the dropped partner and maybe a year to complete travel. Given you can not book more than 330 to 350 days in advance, this means rushing to book Star Alliance flites now is pointless.

When US broke off with BA and AA this was the case.

My bigger worries are what happens to the European routes and the *A affiliation.

The thought of hubs in LAS and PHX with better service to west coast cities is nice. Wonder which name survives? I'm betting against US.


Bet on the US Airways name being the brand. From a marketing perspective, it will test as a more global brand (meaning, appealing to a wide cross-section of groups); where the name America West could be construed as limiting in scope. The old USAIR changed its name to US Airways for this exact purpose in 1996. FWIW, the article in the Wall Street Journal today points to the US Airways name for the combined entity.

I also believe that they will stay a part of the Star Alliance. There will be some details and routes to be worked out, but a stronger US Airways means a stronger Star Alliance. I have to believe that UA considers a stronger Star Alliance to mean a stronger UA, as well.

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- US Airways Group Inc. and America West
are in advanced discussions to merge, creating a national low-cost
airline that would better compete with discount rivals and
complement each other geographically, US Airways' chairman said
Tuesday night.

Does someone know what this means? No more FC? No more Envoy? Meal-in-a-box is permanent? "Creating a national low-cost airline" does not sound like the US Airways I want to still travel on when all is said and done.

Thoughts?

I think they will keep FC domestically and envoy to Europe. European routes have almost always been profitable, and don't see them running to get rid of them.

As far as food goes, domestically I think that we will see food in a box everywhere . . possibly even food going away if the food in a box is not profitable.

never cared about the food. I want the big seat. If they survive and a merger goes through, I will happily fly them for the big seat and buy my own food for the flight.

I agree also that they will stay as part of the star alliance, though they will have some route issues to work out.

I am most concerned about the automatic upgrades. Should they go away, I will switch immediately.

It means that you will now be able to redeem miles to Hawaii on USAirways.

We've got that now on UA right?

How on earth would an America West and USAir route network be established? There would have to be common hubs somewhere. I don;t cherish the thought of flying to the Northwest via Phoenix.

We've got that now on UA right?


Theoretically. But just try to redeem them when you want to go.

Of course, using my UA miles was no easier, so making it 'native' doesn't always mean it's better.

I think they will keep FC domestically and envoy to Europe. European routes have almost always been profitable, and don't see them running to get rid of them.

As far as food goes, domestically I think that we will see food in a box everywhere . . possibly even food going away if the food in a box is not profitable.

never cared about the food. I want the big seat. If they survive and a merger goes through, I will happily fly them for the big seat and buy my own food for the flight.

I agree also that they will stay as part of the star alliance, though they will have some route issues to work out.

I am most concerned about the automatic upgrades. Should they go away, I will switch immediately.


I agree whole-heartedly with you in regards to the auto upgrades. I checked out the America West website to see their program and it turns out it is versy similar to ours.

From the AW website:

FlightFund Elite members enjoy complimentary first class upgrades that are automatically allocated as early as three days prior to departure. Upgrades are prioritized based on Elite status tier:


Silver: 1 day prior to departure
Gold: 2 days prior to departure
Platinum: 3 days prior to departure
Each morning, Elite members can receive an e-mail to find out if you've been upgraded. To subscribe to this service, log-in to your profile and click the "E-mail/Pager Services" tab. If you don't have a profile, create one at flightfund.com. The email notification will be sent each time the automated upgrade process is run.


So maybe all is not so bad.

BTW - I am one of the newbies sucked in by all your press coverage. As a US Gold, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold & Hertz Gold I'm glad to see there is a place to share stories, ideas and info.

How on earth would an America West and USAir route network be established? There would have to be common hubs somewhere. I don;t cherish the thought of flying to the Northwest via Phoenix.

Most all airlines have some coverage gaps.

BTW - I am one of the newbies sucked in by all your press coverage. As a US Gold, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold & Hertz Gold I'm glad to see there is a place to share stories, ideas and info.

Welcome to Flyertalk. It is a fun community. Just be careful about the mileage run virus. ;)

I, too, like the possible merger of US and HP. I think it's good for the involved parties (US & HP) as well as the industry as a whole (not for competing airlines, though). However, I don't US Airways is necessarily a good name for the new entity. While I agree that US Airways has a much broader appeal than America West Airlines, US Airways has been badly tarnished recently. Many people that were involved with the Christmas fiasco will never forget that incident. Plus, from what I have heard, US's rapidly deteriorating service standard has left bad taste in many people's mouth. I just thought it may be worth while to start a new brand with this opportunity. Obviously, a new branding runs the risk of being "another new LCC" on the block and may suffer low loads/yields as a result. Not sure which is the better way to go with.

LAX

Someone with photoshopping skills needs to get a US route map and an America West route map and superimpose them so we can see what it would look like. My guess is that US' nonstops to big west coast cities will survive as is (i.e. SEA, SFO, LAX, SAN), but if you want to fly to a non-major city you'll have to go through LAS or PHX (i.e. Sacramento, Santa Fe, Portland, Spokane).

A new article by USATODAY US Airways, America West in talks (http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2005-04-19-usair-americawest_x.htm) has more details, including the code name "Project Barbell". The article is free so no need to register. The article mentions that due to the brand recognition that the name USAirways will be kept, the big question is who will be in charge. HP is fully aware of what happened to PSA and CEO Doug Parker should be the new head of the company. At this point USAirways needs a man who can turn things around and he has done that for HP. HP has a proven track record of holding up against Southwest. This one trait is what US needed in Baltimore and Los Angeles. Now they need it for Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and possibly Charlotte. There is no doubt that in the short term there will be some cutbacks, however if the airline returns to profitability then we loyal frequent fliers will be rewarded. A profitable airline does tend to increase service levels and make first class enjoyable again. Hopefully the future will bring us a large international airline with good service in the west and east along with LCC profit levels.

I, too, like the possible merger of US and HP. I think it's good for the involved parties (US & HP) as well as the industry as a whole (not for competing airlines, though). However, I don't US Airways is necessarily a good name for the new entity. While I agree that US Airways has a much broader appeal than America West Airlines, US Airways has been badly tarnished recently. Many people that were involved with the Christmas fiasco will never forget that incident. Plus, from what I have heard, US's rapidly deteriorating service standard has left bad taste in many people's mouth. I just thought it may be worth while to start a new brand with this opportunity. Obviously, a new branding runs the risk of being "another new LCC" on the block and may suffer low loads/yields as a result. Not sure which is the better way to go with.

LAX

I don't think it is going to matter. The loads for US Airways are still fine. People are flying CHEAP TICKETS. As long as the fare is low most people will still fly them. Yes there are going to be a few people who will avoid US however, the majority out there are looking at the price. Remember that 3 day sale they had not too long after the Christmas meltdown? Well they had the highest sales on their website. There you go.

Most all airlines have some coverage gaps.

UA has hubs in LAX, SFO, ORD, IAD.

AA has hubs in DFW, JFK, ORD, MIA, and the hublet at SJC.

DL has ATL, CVG, SLC.

CO is short with just IAH, EWR, and CLE, but the boost in O/D from EWR and IAH probably makes up for the lack of a west coast hub.

NW has MSP, MEM, and DTW, with significant "focus city" ops on the west coast on a transpac basis.

US/HP has CLT/PHL and PHX/LAS. That's a ton of real estate in the middle of the country.

The overlap is not that much:

http://www.americawest.com/aboutawa/companyprofile/aa_routemap.htm


http://www.usairways.com/travel/maps/route/us_canada.htm

Didn't HP used to have a hub in CMH? While it's not "as Midwest as" many other currently employed hubs, the newly merged airline can rebuild a hub there. Given that US wants to build FLL into a focused city and keep PHL as its hub for transatlantic flights, may be the newly merged airline can trade CLT for CMH if it doesn't want to add another hub? Well, if it's financially feasible (and no retaliation from AA), STL would be a great hub for connecting purposes in the Midwest. Just my opinion.

LAX

I don't think it is going to matter. The loads for US Airways are still fine. People are flying CHEAP TICKETS. As long as the fare is low most people will still fly them. Yes there are going to be a few people who will avoid US however, the majority out there are looking at the price. Remember that 3 day sale they had not too long after the Christmas meltdown? Well they had the highest sales on their website. There you go.

Well, a bad PR is pretty tough to shake off. While it's true that many travelers now only care about price, if prices are the same, would you fly on a friendly and reliable airline or a rude and unreliable airline? Besides, can the new US compete on price alone while continuing to treat its customers like dirt and lose their baggages? Can the new US make a profit by consistently offering rock bottom prices to offset its deficiencies? Plus, there is only so much one can take. Quite frankly, if I were involved in the Christmas fiasco and missed an important event as a result, I would think long and hard before I book on US again even if it has the absolute lowest fare. Besides, with today's fierce competition, fares on most routes where airlines compete are fairly competitive (within $10-20 of each other), would you risk getting stranded and/or receiving poor service to save $10? Bottom line is that if the tarnished US Airways brand can be restored to its glory days, then it's definitely worth keeping. However, if its poor reputation sticks around, I am not sure whether it's worth saving it.

LAX

A new hub doesn't sound like a good idea.

My bet is that they essentially run two airlines under a holding company and a code share of some sort. It solves a lot of problems.

Didn't HP used to have a hub in CMH? While it's not "as Midwest as" many other currently employed hubs, the newly merged airline can rebuild a hub there. Given that US wants to build FLL into a focused city and keep PHL as its hub for transatlantic flights, may be the newly merged airline can trade CLT for CMH if it doesn't want to add another hub? Well, if it's financially feasible (and no retaliation from AA), STL would be a great hub for connecting purposes in the Midwest. Just my opinion.

LAX

CLT is one of US's best assets - not why US added 20% there and it is now approaching 600 US daily flights over 10 banks vs. the previous 8. The second largest connecting hub in the SE, where US and DL still rule many markets. CLT has far better on-time performance and is just simply much nicer than ATL. US/HP would never give it up.

My bet of the name of the combined entity > US West

Didn't HP used to have a hub in CMH? While it's not "as Midwest as" many other currently employed hubs, the newly merged airline can rebuild a hub there. Given that US wants to build FLL into a focused city and keep PHL as its hub for transatlantic flights, may be the newly merged airline can trade CLT for CMH if it doesn't want to add another hub? Well, if it's financially feasible (and no retaliation from AA), STL would be a great hub for connecting purposes in the Midwest. Just my opinion.

LAX

Before HP pulled out of CMH, they converted two of their gates to exclusive RJ use (three RJ air bridges in place of one big jet). I think HP has one or two large gates remaining in CMH.

My bet of the name of the combined entity > US West

Nah, reminds me too much of the old regional phone company (now Qwest). Plus the "West" limits the airline's perceived geographic scope, for marketing purposes.

Sticking with the US Airways name would be a better choice for the reasons others have mentioned.

What's the distinction between what the two airlines might be planning and the takeover of TWA by AA? What would happen to union agreements, seniority, etc? Would there be clubs in LAX and SFO again?

Also, the "talking with other airlines" intrigues me a bit. Wasn't US planning to merge or codeshare with CO, only to jilt them later in the game for UA (which provided better geographic opportunities and Star Alliance membership.

What's the distinction between what the two airlines might be planning and the takeover of TWA by AA? What would happen to union agreements, seniority, etc? Would there be clubs in LAX and SFO again?

Time to dust this one off ;)

Nobody Knows (tm) CPRich

But it's way more fun to speculate about this than the other "nobody knows" threads ;)

Distinction #1 -- HP, the smaller airline, is, or ought to be, in the drivers seat. Unlike the goofballs in CCY they're actually running an airline in Tempe.

Distinction #2 -- US isn't as desperate as TWA was. Really.

Distinction #3 -- The parties have the AA/TWA seniority debacle to learn from.

While it's true that nobody knows it might be helpful when kicking around the seniority issue to note the following:

Copied & pasted from US Aviation

Note that there is NO MENTION of Date Of Hire.

Here are the ALPA list integration goals from the ALPA Administrative Manual

SECTION 45 – MERGER AND FRAGMENTATION POLICY 10/31/02

5. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

My bet of the name of the combined entity > US West

That has a nice RING to it :D


How about America Airways ?

Plus the "West" limits the airline's perceived geographic scope, for marketing purposes.

Sticking with the US Airways name would be a better choice for the reasons others have mentioned.

Wahoo -- if you can tell me how SouthWEST and NorthWEST are more limiting than AmericaWEST, I'd love to hear it.

Most airline names are historical remnants of the geographical region they served in the earliest days of regulated service and air-mail deliveries. Just because DL isn't in the Mississippi Delta anymore, and Northwest Orient is politically correct and dropped "Orient", doesn't mean that all airlines with geographically-linked names are doomed to go the way of AirCal or Eastern.

And, having a name reflecting your "Pan-American" route network is no guaranty of success either!

:D

The name "Northwest" has a lot of history associated with it (as in Northwest Orient). The "Southwest" name has a strong brand and image despite its expansion to all corners of the continental US.

The "America West" moniker has neither quality.

The name "Northwest" has a lot of history associated with it (as in Northwest Orient). The "Southwest" name has a strong brand and image despite its expansion to all corners of the continental US.

The "America West" moniker has neither quality.

I agree.

Furthermore, US Airways, unlike America West, has a presence and brand recognition in Europe, the Carribean, etc.

US of America West Airways

US Airways of America West

America West - US Airways

America West & US Airways

Amwest Airways

USA-"W" Airways

US & AW Airways

AW Rootbeer Airways

Allegheny Airlines

Allegheny - Mohawk & America West (A-MAW)

Didn't HP used to have a hub in CMH? While it's not "as Midwest as" many other currently employed hubs, the newly merged airline can rebuild a hub there. Given that US wants to build FLL into a focused city and keep PHL as its hub for transatlantic flights, may be the newly merged airline can trade CLT for CMH if it doesn't want to add another hub? Well, if it's financially feasible (and no retaliation from AA), STL would be a great hub for connecting purposes in the Midwest. Just my opinion.

LAX

The CMH hub here was never that large and the terminal is really too small to support much of a hub operation. And, if they really want another hub (which I doubt), PIT is only 120 miles east of here and offers a superior facility for hub operations -- a bigger terminal and more ILS runways for bad weather operations, as well as a larger O&D market.

All the articles say they are keeping the US Airways name, I don't think they will drop European routes HP will just feed more people onto the flights.


feed them from where? they're not set up well for transatlantic feed. LAS-PHL and PHX-PHL are already served by both, and PHX-CLT by US. O&D people in those cities already can book US to Europe fairly easily. People in other western cities would still need 2 legs to reach a US gateway, vs 1 leg, much of the time, on other competitors.

that's really just one symptom of the problems with a "bar-bell" style merger/codeshare/whatever--- the expanded access to city pairs has to be along the skinny portion of the barbell. to get from SLC to RIC in the merged route system would be a 3-leg trip; on AA or DL it's 2.

to get from SLC to RIC in the merged route system would be a 3-leg trip; on AA or DL it's 2.

I think there is a failed assumption here that they will do nothing to change their route systems, just merge them......HP has planes on order....they are a lot of opportunities for expansion on some more transcon's from the west to feed Europe. HP has a presence out there and likely exsisting gates in a lot of cities to support a SLC-PHL or SLC-CLT or SMF-CLT or PDX-PHL or in the other directoin BNA, RDU, RIC, etc. - PHX. Look already at what HP has doen in expanding their non-hub in LAX.

UA has hubs in LAX, SFO, ORD, IAD.

AA has hubs in DFW, JFK, ORD, MIA, and the hublet at SJC.

DL has ATL, CVG, SLC.

CO is short with just IAH, EWR, and CLE, but the boost in O/D from EWR and IAH probably makes up for the lack of a west coast hub.

NW has MSP, MEM, and DTW, with significant "focus city" ops on the west coast on a transpac basis.

US/HP has CLT/PHL and PHX/LAS. That's a ton of real estate in the middle of the country.

So you build up a Focus-City and/or a HUB at Kansas City (KMCI)

This would have the added benifet of N-S traffic:
Midwest from/to Gulf Coast & Florida

Along with E-W traffic.

Example a list of cities that could be served by KMCI:
KJAX - Jacksonville, Florida
KMCO - Orlando, Florida
KTPA - Tampa, Florida
KFLL - Ft Lauderdale, Florida
KMIA - Miami, Florida
KRSW - Fort Myers, Florida
KTLH - Tallahassee, Florida
KAPF - Naples, Florida
KPBI - West Palm Beach, Florida
KDAB - Daytona Beach, Florida
KGNV - Gainesville, Florida
KBIX - Biloxi, Mississippi
KHKS - Jackson, Mississippi
KBNA - Nashville, Tennesee
KMEM - Memphis, Tennesee
KTYS - Knoxville, Tennesee
KCHA - Chattanooga, Tennesee
KLEX - Lexington, Kentucky
KPAH - Paducah, Kentucky
KSDF - Louisville, Kentucky
KCLE - Cleveland, Ohio
KTOL - Toledo, Ohio
KDAY - Dayton, Ohio
KCVG - Cincinnati, Ohio / Covington, Kentucky
KCMH - Columbus, Ohio
KIND - Indianapolis, Indiana
KFWA - Fort Wayne, Indiana
KMDH - Carbondale/Murphysboro, Illinois
KSPI - Springfield, Illinois
KBMI - Bloomington/Normal, Illinois
KPIA - Peoria, Illinois
KDEC - Decatur, Illinois
KRFD - Rockford, Illinois
KMLI - Moline, Illinois
KARR - Chicago (Aurora), Illinois
KMDW - Chicago (Midway), Illinois
KORD - Chicago (Ohare Intl), Illinois
KDPA - West Chicago (Du Page), Illinois
KLAN - Lansing, Michigan
KDTW - Detroit, Michigan
KMBS - Saginaw, Michigan
KTVC - Traverse City, Michigan
KMQT - Marquette, Michigan
KMSN - Madison, Wisconsin
KMKE - Milwaukee, Wisconsin
KGRB - Green Bay, Wisconsin
KMSP - Minneapolis, Minnesota
KDLH - Duluth, Minnesota
KINL - International Falls, Minnesota
KBRD - Brainerd, Minnesota
KDSM - Des Moines, Iowa
KSUX - Sioux City, Iowa
KCBF - Council Bluffs, Iowa
KDVN - Davenport, Iowa
KDBQ - Dubuque, Iowa
KJEF - Jefferson City, Missouri
KSTL - St. Louis, Missouri
KLIT - Little Rock, Arkansas
KXNA - Fayetteville, Arkansas
KHOT - Hot Springs, Arkansas
KMSY - New Orleans, Louisiana
KSHV - Shreveport, Louisiana
KAEX - Alexandria, Louisiana
KBTR - Baton Rouge, Louisiana
KMLU - Monroe, Louisiana
KAUS - Austin, Texas
KIAH - Houston (Intcntl), Texas
KHOU - Houston (Hobby), Texas
KSAT - San Antonio, Texas
KDFW - Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
KELP - El Paso, Texas
KLBB - Lubbock, Texas
KMAF - Midland, Texas
KAMA - Amarillo, Texas
KGLS - Galveston, Texas
KCRP - Corpus Christi, Texas
KBRO - Brownsville/South Padre Island, Texas
KLRD - Laredo, Texas
KOKC - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
KTUL - Tulsa, Oklahoma
KFOE - Topeka, Kansas
KICT - Wichita, Kansas
KDDC - Dodge City, Kansas
KLNK - Lincoln, Nebraska
KLBF - North Platte, Nebraska
KPIR - Pierre, South Dakota
KFSD - Sioux Falls, South Dakota
KBIS - Bismarck, North Dakota
KGFK - Grand Forks, North Dakota
KMOT - Minot, North Dakota
KDIK - Dickinson, North Dakota

To see what those airport codes mean:
Airport Locator (http://www.airrouting.com/content/airportloc.html)

This potential merger reminds me of Sears and Kmart, which also merged: 2 troubled companies whose most valuable assets are their real estate holdings!

This potential merger reminds me of Sears and Kmart, which also merged: 2 troubled companies whose most valuable assets are their real estate holdings!

Or of the First Union / Wachovia Bank merger.

BTW - And Wachovia is 100% better now than before the
merger when it was First Union !

Everybody needs to take a deep breath. No matter how this merger breaks I am pretty confident that the end product is going to be a win-win for the frequent fliers of both airlines. The new USAirways is going to do everything it can to retain its very frequent fliers as it moves through the process.

The wins I am talking about are

1.) There will be many more first class seats for US fliers to popular leisure destinations like LAS and PHX and Mexico. Don't forget Hawaii!

2.) America West fliers will have access to the several hundreds new destinations via the star alliance.

3.) US fliers will have the ability to complimentary upgrades to dozens of new west coast cities without having to pay UA for a same day stand-by upgrade.

4.) The UA codeshare will remain, although options will be reduced on competing hub to hub routes like DEN-LAS etc.

For United this is a good deal too IMHO. UA has been scrambling to get out of low yield domestic travel and focus on international. This will dramatically increase their international feed from booming cities like LAS and PHX.

For United this is a good deal too IMHO. UA has been scrambling to get out of low yield domestic travel and focus on international. This will dramatically increase their international feed from booming cities like LAS and PHX.
This is making the assumption that the new merged airline will let United have this traffic. I can imagine it for Pacific traffic, but for Europe I am pretty sure they will want it for themselves.
Don't forget as much as they hate it, the major airlines need feeder traffic to keep their international operations running. I understand the reduction in services domestically to cut costs, but you can only do it so much before your flight to nagoya is going out 1/4 full.

US of America West Airways

US Airways of America West

America West - US Airways

America West & US Airways

Amwest Airways

USA-"W" Airways

US & AW Airways

AW Rootbeer Airways

Allegheny Airlines

Allegheny - Mohawk & America West (A-MAW)

Amway! :D

My bigger worries are what happens to the European routes and the *A affiliation.

The thought of hubs in LAS and PHX with better service to west coast cities is nice. Wonder which name survives? I'm betting against US.

According to the WSJ, the plan is to use the US Airways name, but keep two separate airlines (I guess an Eastern and Western division] to avoid union problems. But I suspect the management of HP is better than that at US, and so I would expect America West to really run the show.

It means that you will now be able to redeem miles to Hawaii on USAirways.

America West hasn't flown to Hawaii in years. They code-share with Hawaiian out of PHX.

This is making the assumption that the new merged airline will let United have this traffic. I can imagine it for Pacific traffic, but for Europe I am pretty sure they will want it for themselves.

The new US Airways post-merger will have no more transatlantic routes than US has right now. HP brings zero transatlantic service to the table so unless US really ramps up transatlantic there is little reason to discontinue codesharing with UA or any other *A carrier.


Don't forget as much as they hate it, the major airlines need feeder traffic to keep their international operations running. I understand the reduction in services domestically to cut costs, but you can only do it so much before your flight to nagoya is going out 1/4 full.

Exactly my point. UA will want to continue code-sharing with the new USAirways because it will increase feed without them having to add more low-yield domestic service.

Finally, to add another point. US and HP have so little overlapping traffic I think this will have a lot less impact on labor agreements as opposed to a UA/US merger which would pose a lot of issues because of overlapping traffing in the DC/Philadephia area.

What's the distinction between what the two airlines might be planning and the takeover of TWA by AA? What would happen to union agreements, seniority, etc? Would there be clubs in LAX and SFO again?

Also, the "talking with other airlines" intrigues me a bit. Wasn't US planning to merge or codeshare with CO, only to jilt them later in the game for UA (which provided better geographic opportunities and Star Alliance membership.

I think US and HP have the same pilots' and flight attendants' unions. Don't know about mechanics. If they have the same unions, then merging seniority is a lot easier. But the plan, according to the press, is to operate the two airlines separately, even if the have the same name - an Eastern and Western division of US, if you will. . . .

So you build up a Focus-City and/or a HUB at Kansas City (KMCI)

This would have the added benifet of N-S traffic:
Midwest from/to Gulf Coast & Florida

Along with E-W traffic.

Example a list of cities that could be served by KMCI:
KJAX - Jacksonville, Florida
KMCO - Orlando, Florida
KTPA - Tampa, Florida
KFLL - Ft Lauderdale, Florida
KMIA - Miami, Florida
KRSW - Fort Myers, Florida
KTLH - Tallahassee, Florida
KAPF - Naples, Florida
KPBI - West Palm Beach, Florida
KDAB - Daytona Beach, Florida
KGNV - Gainesville, Florida
KBIX - Biloxi, Mississippi
KHKS - Jackson, Mississippi
KBNA - Nashville, Tennesee
KMEM - Memphis, Tennesee
KTYS - Knoxville, Tennesee
KCHA - Chattanooga, Tennesee
KLEX - Lexington, Kentucky
KPAH - Paducah, Kentucky
KSDF - Louisville, Kentucky
KCLE - Cleveland, Ohio
KTOL - Toledo, Ohio
KDAY - Dayton, Ohio
KCVG - Cincinnati, Ohio / Covington, Kentucky
KCMH - Columbus, Ohio
KIND - Indianapolis, Indiana
KFWA - Fort Wayne, Indiana
KMDH - Carbondale/Murphysboro, Illinois
KSPI - Springfield, Illinois
KBMI - Bloomington/Normal, Illinois
KPIA - Peoria, Illinois
KDEC - Decatur, Illinois
KRFD - Rockford, Illinois
KMLI - Moline, Illinois
KARR - Chicago (Aurora), Illinois
KMDW - Chicago (Midway), Illinois
KORD - Chicago (Ohare Intl), Illinois
KDPA - West Chicago (Du Page), Illinois
KLAN - Lansing, Michigan
KDTW - Detroit, Michigan
KMBS - Saginaw, Michigan
KTVC - Traverse City, Michigan
KMQT - Marquette, Michigan
KMSN - Madison, Wisconsin
KMKE - Milwaukee, Wisconsin
KGRB - Green Bay, Wisconsin
KMSP - Minneapolis, Minnesota
KDLH - Duluth, Minnesota
KINL - International Falls, Minnesota
KBRD - Brainerd, Minnesota
KDSM - Des Moines, Iowa
KSUX - Sioux City, Iowa
KCBF - Council Bluffs, Iowa
KDVN - Davenport, Iowa
KDBQ - Dubuque, Iowa
KJEF - Jefferson City, Missouri
KSTL - St. Louis, Missouri
KLIT - Little Rock, Arkansas
KXNA - Fayetteville, Arkansas
KHOT - Hot Springs, Arkansas
KMSY - New Orleans, Louisiana
KSHV - Shreveport, Louisiana
KAEX - Alexandria, Louisiana
KBTR - Baton Rouge, Louisiana
KMLU - Monroe, Louisiana
KAUS - Austin, Texas
KIAH - Houston (Intcntl), Texas
KHOU - Houston (Hobby), Texas
KSAT - San Antonio, Texas
KDFW - Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
KELP - El Paso, Texas
KLBB - Lubbock, Texas
KMAF - Midland, Texas
KAMA - Amarillo, Texas
KGLS - Galveston, Texas
KCRP - Corpus Christi, Texas
KBRO - Brownsville/South Padre Island, Texas
KLRD - Laredo, Texas
KOKC - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
KTUL - Tulsa, Oklahoma
KFOE - Topeka, Kansas
KICT - Wichita, Kansas
KDDC - Dodge City, Kansas
KLNK - Lincoln, Nebraska
KLBF - North Platte, Nebraska
KPIR - Pierre, South Dakota
KFSD - Sioux Falls, South Dakota
KBIS - Bismarck, North Dakota
KGFK - Grand Forks, North Dakota
KMOT - Minot, North Dakota
KDIK - Dickinson, North Dakota

To see what those airport codes mean:
Airport Locator (http://www.airrouting.com/content/airportloc.html)


They tried it years ago. US couldn't pull it off at MCI then and probably wouldn't be able to do it now.

MCI blows goats. I hate how every 3 gates has its own crappy inSecurity goons.

SDF would be a much better choice. :D

I think there is a failed assumption here that they will do nothing to change their route systems, just merge them......HP has planes on order....they are a lot of opportunities for expansion on some more transcon's from the west to feed Europe. HP has a presence out there and likely exsisting gates in a lot of cities to support a SLC-PHL or SLC-CLT or SMF-CLT or PDX-PHL or in the other directoin BNA, RDU, RIC, etc. - PHX. Look already at what HP has doen in expanding their non-hub in LAX.

HP adding planes to serve as spokes to US hubs?? if feed from SLC-PHL, SLC-CLT, or SMF-CLT were profitable, surely US would be covering those routes already instead of some of the money-losing routes they serve now. There's no reason why more people would want to fly those routes just because a new HP plane is covering them.

transcon fares are completely in the toilet, to the point HP had to back off of its ambitious plans for them, not to mention space in T1 at LAX is already at a premium and the security situation there stinks with the WN hordes sharing the checkpoint.

MCI blows goats. I hate how every 3 gates has its own crappy inSecurity goons.

SDF would be a much better choice. :D

:D :D :D

MCI does have this third world Latin American Airport look / feel. *bleh*

regarding a previous comment about STL, AA has really downsized their operations there and consolidated at ORD. I don't know how much they would be willing to invest in order to fight off a Midwest hub attempt by US/HP.

What's wrong with just using CLT as the MidWest hub?

MCI blows goats. I hate how every 3 gates has its own crappy inSecurity goons.


But that's plus for us passengers. That we get to meet and be felt up by those nice TSA folks.

It means that you will now be able to redeem miles to Hawaii on USAirways.



How do you figure? HP doesn't go to Hawaii! They partner with Hawaiian for that.

And you can redeem miles to Hawaii now on a little airline you might have heard of called United (and sit in E+ to boot if you're elite).

But that's plus for us passengers. That we we get to met and be felt up by those nice TSA folks.

They really spread the love last Thursday. It seemed like every third person got the extra *SSS*pecial treatment around 4:00pm.
Though I didn't see any goats.

[QUOTE=martin33]HP adding planes to serve as spokes to US hubs?? if feed from SLC-PHL, SLC-CLT, or SMF-CLT were profitable, surely US would be covering those routes already instead of some of the money-losing routes they serve now. There's no reason why more people would want to fly those routes just because a new HP plane is covering them. QUOTE]

The difference is that the costs are much higher for US to add stations such as SLC (labor force covers small number of pax) then a combined airline with 8-12 exsisting LAS/PHX flights. Not to mention, more loyal pax to HP vs. a virtually unheard of in some parts of the west US. It's a critical mass type issue.

They tried it years ago. US couldn't pull it off at MCI then and probably wouldn't be able to do it now.

No, US Airways Express at KMCI as a focus-city
(non US Airways held US Airways Express carrier)

And any "Hub" at MCI would involve totaly re-building the terminals etc.