I realize alot of you on this forum are only interested in where your $$$$ & miles will end up. however, there IS a human aspect to the situation! I post this article that appeared in the Winston-Salem Journal on Sunday, Dec 5. I worked with this man MANY years before he retired. now, it seems like he's gonna get the 'shaft' just like so many others!

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Cutting Benefits
US Airways shrinking its commitment to retiree health-care
By Richard Craver
JOURNAL REPORTER
Sunday, December 5, 2004

Dennis Turbyfill said he gave his all to US Airways Group Inc. He went to work with the flu, a broken toe, even a broken arm. Turbyfill said he missed only 1 1/2 days in 30 years with the airline and its predecessor, Piedmont Airlines.

But just two years after Turbyfill, 62, retired early from the airline's reservation center in Winston-Salem, he said he has come to realize that US Airways never valued his loyalty and sacrifice.

"Anybody who tries for a perfect work attendance these days is a fool," Turbyfill said.

Turbyfill said that the final proof is US Airways' decision to pursue, through the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, the termination of retiree medical and dental benefits on Jan. 1 and its pension-plan obligations in early 2005. US Airways filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on Sept. 12, the second time that it has done so in two years.

Hearings on the airline's request have started, and a bankruptcy court judge said Thursday that he doesn't expect to make a ruling until early January.

"I thought the airline would provide for my benefits for the rest of my life, but now it appears their pledge may not be worth the paper it was written on," Turbyfill said. He has gone back to work with another employer to prepare himself for additional expenses.

Turbyfill is one of an estimated 3,000 US Airways or Piedmont retirees and their dependents in the Triad facing the loss of their company-subsidized health care and a possible reduction in their pensions.

At its peak, Piedmont had about 5,600 employees in the Triad. US Airways bought Piedmont in November 1987 and has about 1,600 employees in Winston-Salem.

In a memo sent to retirees in mid-November, the airline defended the cuts as a matter of survival. Termination of its pension plans alone would save it about $200 million a year.

"They reflect the critical need to immediately lower these substantial costs or risk an end to the company and a cessation of all benefit programs for all current and former employees," the airline said.

Jerrold Glass, a senior vice president of employee relations, said in another memo to retirees: "Potential investors have been clear that they are not interested in risking their money in an airline with noncompetitive pension costs and future pension obligations, which could overwhelm or seriously impair the company's financial outlook."

The US Airways and Piedmont retirees are part of a national trend in which bankrupt companies, as well as those struggling to pay rising health-care expenses, are shifting more of the cost of medical benefits to retirees or eliminating their contributions. Most-affected are the airline, coal, steel and technology sectors.

There are other recent examples of this in the Triad besides US Airways:

• International Textile Group, the parent company of Burlington Industries Inc. and Cone Mills Corp., said last week that it plans to eliminate medical and dental benefits for about 1,400 retirees in September. It said it has to terminate the benefits to better compete in a global textile market.

• Some local employees who retired from Lucent Technologies Inc. or its predecessors after March 1, 1990, could see their monthly health-care premiums rise considerably in early 2005 if a tentative agreement between Lucent and its unions is approved. Lucent also is reducing benefits to retirees not covered by union representation.

There are 127,000 Lucent management and union retirees, of which 8,200 are in North Carolina, said Mary Ward, a spokeswoman for Lucent. Thousands of those retirees are former employees in the Triad of Western Electric Co., Bell Telephone Laboratories and AT&T Corp.

In the new agreement, Lucent would not subsidize the health-care premium for dependents of management retirees who made more than $65,000 a year. Lucent will make group coverage available, Ward said.

Some employees who retired after March 1, 1990, have gone from paying nothing in health-care premiums to more than $500 a month for family coverage, said Ken Raschke, the president of the Lucent Retirees Organization and a Winston-Salem resident.

The US Airways pension plan would be administered by the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. if the court approved the termination of the plan. But analysts said that it is likely that some retirees won't receive the level of benefits once promised by the airline.

The pension agency already covers more than 34.6 million retirees in more than 29,600 plans. The agency reported on Nov. 15 a $12.1 billion operating loss in fiscal year 2004.

"The PBGC is committed to protecting pension benefits, and with $39 billion in assets we can continue to meet our obligations for a number of years," said Bradley Bell, the executive director of the agency. "But with more than $62 billion in liabilities, it is imperative that Congress act expeditiously so that the problem doesn't spiral out of control."

For retirees' health-care plans, however, there is no federal safety net. Medicare and a Medicare supplement costing $35 to $50 a month meet most of the health-care needs of retirees age 65 and older.

But for those retirees younger than 65, especially those with pre-existing conditions, life is a lot tougher. Analysts said that those retirees struggle to secure a private health-insurance policy even if they can afford premiums that are five or 15 times higher than what they were paying before their company dropped their benefits.

"Retired individuals under 65 are the population most adversely affected by the loss of retiree benefits," said Elaine Zimmerman, an official with the U.S. Labor Department's Employee Benefits Security Administration.

Fewer retirees covered

The Kaiser Family Foundation said that a recent survey of 408 large, private-sector employers found that 10 percent had eliminated paying for health benefits for future retirees. Another 20 percent said they were likely to terminate those benefits for future retirees in the next three years.

"Based on current trends, we can expect that fewer retirees will have health coverage in the future, and those who do will be paying more for their health care," said Drew Altman, the president and chief executive of the foundation.

Turbyfill said that if US Airways receives approval to eliminate its retiree health benefits - and he says he believes that it will - the payments for health-care insurance for himself and his wife could increase from $110 a month to between $608.51 and $701.04 a month for temporary Cobra insurance coverage. The federally mandated Cobra coverage normally lasts 18 months.

"It's devious what US Airways is doing to us," said Billy Reid, 57, who retired in March 2003 after 26 years in reservation services. "It's like having a thief breaking into your house to take away the promises you counted on for your retirement years."

Tony Steelman, 64, considers himself fortunate that he will have to wait only 10 months before he can depend on Medicare for most of his health care. He took early retirement in 1993 after 32 years as a flight attendant.

"It's still hard to fathom that my health-care payments have already gone from $7.80 a month to $158 a month in the past 11/2 years," Steelman said. "Now, I'm looking at having to pay $358 a month for Cobra coverage or $468 a month for Blue Cross Blue Shield.

"There's so many people who took early retirement because they were led to believe it was the right thing for them and the company. With the cutting of the health benefits, we've all been hit below the belt, and that's not right," he said.

The shrinking corporate commitment to retiree benefits is a byproduct of a more mobile work force and a fading of the loyalties once extended in the employer-employee relationship, said Mark Hall, an associate professor of management at Wake Forest University.

"More employers are no longer saying to their employees, 'Come work for us and we'll take care of providing you with a certain standard of living when you retire,'" Hall said. "Now, the relationship is mostly a paycheck and benefits while you're an active worker."

US Airways' benefits-cut proposal has some local employees reconsidering their plans to retire by the end of the year even though they are angry about recent pay cuts. The bankruptcy court already has approved a temporary pay cut of 21 percent, and that decrease came on top of a 15 percent pay cut in 2002.

"Those people have been grossly misled by the airline, who encouraged them to retire only to spring the health-benefit cut on them with just a few days notice," said Betty Parker, a retired reservation employee and an official with Communications Workers of America Local 3640. The airline said that it would give employees who had submitted paperwork to retire the opportunity to rescind their request.

For employees who retire after Jan. 1, the airline would allow them to have access to its insurance coverage, but they would have to pick up the entire cost. Accrued sick days could keep premiums down for a while.

"Additional changes to retiree medical benefits may be required as we move through the bankruptcy process," the airline said in its memo to retirees. "The company reserves the right to seek to change or terminate retiree medical benefits at any time."

Dan Shanks, 70, worked for the airline for 36 years, retiring in 1989. A Winston-Salem resident, he is taking an active role in a legal challenge by some retirees to the airline's proposed benefits cuts.

"We're especially worried that the airline is trying to limit the retirees' pension payouts with the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.," Shanks said. The federal agency pays a maximum of $3,699 a month, or $44,386 a year, to an employee who retires at 65. The amount is smaller for those who retire before 65.

"There's a lot of distraught, stressed-out retirees out there," Shanks said. "They don't understand why the company is treating them this way, especially when management is not sharing in the sacrifices.

"But then again, this is a company who from the start after buying Piedmont wanted to operate things its way. It's been clearly shown in the past 15 years that its way has been the wrong way."

'Lost its heart'

Georgie Kitchen, 80, the widow of a former longtime Piedmont employee, is as disillusioned as other retirees.

"It is very evident that US Airways has lost its heart and has absolutely no conscience," Kitchen said. "We are not young folks, with our ages ranging between 65 and 90. Many of us don't have the option of going back to work.

"It's frustrating to think that US Airways is cutting me loose in the health-care market without regards to the years of service my husband gave to the company."

Kitchen is not alone in her sentiments, said Michelle Kitchman, a senior policy analyst for the Kaiser foundation.

"Many retirees feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them as a result of the loss of their health benefits," Kitchman said.

"Once you've been relying on something to help subsidize your costs, and you're in a position where you might have one or more ailments that require multiple visits to multiple physicians, you're going to feel the pinch of the loss of these benefits."

Jo Ann Overby, 62, said she took early retirement after 231/2 years to help US Airways through its first bankruptcy filing in 2002. Overby is the widow of Gene Overby, the former play-by-play sports announcer for Wake Forest University.

Overby said that retirees never would have been in this plight under the watch of Thomas Davis, the founder, chairman and chief executive of Piedmont.

"The only reason I chose to retire when I did was to secure the health benefits the airline's management is about to throw away," Overby said.

Turbyfill, the retiree with a nearly perfect attendance record, said he shudders to think about what it's going to be like for future US Airways workers.

"The way things are going now, they'll have nothing to look forward to for retirement except being stabbed in the back," Turbyfill said. "That is, if there's an airline to retire from."

I realize alot of you on this forum are only interested in where your $$$$ & miles will end up. however, there IS a human aspect to the situation!

Obviously, most of us are concerned about the future of our miles, but I think the majority are quite concerned about the toll that this situation will take on the average employee. I think I speak for many of us when I say that we do really hope for the best for y'all. Where we seem to get in disagreements is when we think that striking or threatening to strike would be a disaster, not just for our miles, but for the employees as well.

I understand that the choices presented to you guys are all terrible and I really do wish it were otherwise. I've been in similar situations to yours as both employee and mangement and I very well understand how painful it is.

As to our FF miles & status, let me say only that the airline industry is a business which offers a product in a highly competitive market. We select US both because of the product & perks offered as well as the service rendered by its employees. I can't apologize for that.

My wife & I empathize very much with the plight of US employees. It is certainly an understatement to say that dedicated US employees are getting screwed here. Neither am I comfortable pointing the finger at one side or the other in this labor/management dispute.

Bottom line is that the world is bigger than any of us, individuals or corporations. Nothing is forever and it is foolish to assume that things will never change -- it's a bitter pill to swallow since we all want to believe that our hard work and dedication will always be rewarded and respected. That said, I'm really sorry that things have worked out they way they do, because good people are being hurt here.

When US declares chapter 11, the parameters are set -- and all parties lose in this situation. It's now all in the hands of the legal boys & courts which will render decisions on paper which do nothing to address the human aspect. At this point in time, a strike is nothing but a vindictive gesture which inflicts additional pain.

We continue to offer our best wishes to dedicated US employees who are enduring some very difficult times. We will continue to fly US because people do count.

Barry

Don't expect pages on this thread, PiedmontGurl...you hit the nail on the head. It IS about money & miles.

Don't expect pages on this thread, PiedmontGurl...you hit the nail on the head. It IS about money & miles.

I resent that comment.

I am going W A Y out on a limb to keep booking US. Not that it is convenient for me. Not that the service isn't slipping in a major way. Not that the front line folks that I come in contact with in the past weeks aren't in major foul moods (and I don't blame them) and not particularly professional or helpful.............

Call me crazy, but I keep on booking travel with US through next summer at this point. And lots of it. Just booked 3 business trips on US within the last 48 hours. Some of it in Feb 2005 -- I have no idea if US will even be around then. But you should know that the O N L Y reason I booked on US was to do my small share to keep the whole ship afloat. I have too many pals out there working for US NOT to care.

Please don't shortchange us here on FT. We REALLY do want you to succeed and come out healthy on the other side of this thing. However, if customer service and employee attitudes remain as dismal as they've been the past month, eventually I'll move on, too........

The sad fact is that customers generally do not support businesses that can not effectively compete on price. There are exceptions, but generally the lowest price wins. I prefer quality service, but I'm in the minority. If I had it my way, there would still be local-owned department stores, grocery stores and other businesses. But the market speaks -- even though local communities often vote to prevent Wal*Mart from opening a new store in their area, once the store opens, the local guys go broke. Over and over, all over the country.

I had an even sadder fact to report to y'all. Even if 50% or more of us on flyertalk are sad to see what is happening to this airline, we are very much the minority. The vast majority of airline customers really don't much care. They shop on price and fly whatever comes up cheapest on travelocity (or whatever site they use). If one airline charges $75 for a ticket and another charges $150, they will fly the cheap guy and they don't really think about (or probably care) that this means the employees have trouble affording their house. I wish that the facts were different, but I don't think that they are.

Business and competitive forces are brutal and the companies that do not compete effectively will die. In the absence of some brilliant management strategy that gives customers a reason to choose U and pay more (which I think we can all agree isn't very likely), the way forward is lower costs and lower fares. We have all stood by while these same changes have taken place throughout the economy and it isn't going to stop now.

you hit the nail on the head. It IS about money & miles


Flygirl,

I know that you're normally a very succinct poster. But in a virtual forum such as this, I'm trying to be sure that I understand the context in which you speak. Are you saying blame the US customer for the current state of affairs or do you speak in general of industry forces which in turn shape the customer response/expectation?

Barry

you hit the nail on the head. It IS about money & miles


Flygirl,

I know that you're normally a very succinct poster. But in a virtual forum such as this, I'm trying to be sure that I understand the context in which you speak. Are you saying blame the US customer for the current state of affairs or do you speak in general of industry forces which in turn shape the customer response/expectation?

Barry

Barry,

Any "lowest price is for me" kind of shopper would not be on this forum. I would not blame a US customer - they are just innocents in the line of fire. Also, I know that there are business travelers who don't give a damn,and the same for employees. Having a happy coexistence with one another is the problem. I blame the industry forces for what is going on. People don't know by buying that dirt cheap ticket or shopping at Wal*Mart is warping the economy and lives of people in this country. But we are all guilty if it. I am. I don't like to shop at Wal*Mart due to how they "glass ceiling" their female employees and force mandatory unpaid overtime to their staff. Guess where I was a couple days ago? I needed some plastic storage containers and I knew Wal*Mart had them. There I was, patronizing a store that I don't agree with. The only difference is, is that the "one a year flyer" has no idea what they are buying into. That ignorance, I can understand. I wouldn't know either if I didn't work here. It's the people who do know, and still are crying about points, etc. that can make a long day longer.

Jen

As much as it's about the points, we could really get those anywhere. It's the people who really make the difference. Call me crazy, but I don't remember the "good 'ol days" of glass and china. And frankly, I'd much prefer the generally stellar service along with a free beer, big seat and snack basket than go somewhere like AA where a surly FA will just glare at me all flight as though my paid ticket is a huge inconvenience.... Just because I(we?) may not agree with labor, doesn't mean we don't still love y'all. ;)

As a very frequent US customer and one of their most vocal supporters, I feel the need to chime in here.

The reason most of us stay so very loyal is due to YOU, the employees with whom we come in contact day in and day out. Yes it's true that many people do flock to the lowest fares, and it's true that average fares have come down, but that is due to market conditions and the influx of LCC's to certain markets. The sad fact is that the business model has changed, and few if any "legacy" airlines have been able to adapt.

As frequent fliers we have never asked for the outrageously low fares which have become prevalent in today's markets. "Go Fares" are a great idea for leisure travelers, and for taking customers away from LCC's. Where they miss the mark is with the vast majority of frequent business travelers, who do NOT want the cheapest fares, but want FAIR fares. I have gone on and on about this--my "signature" on another board is "It's the FARES, stupid". I don't mind paying a small premium to be on US, but I can't pay 5 or 10 times the going rate either. I think what is needed is RATIONALIZATION of the fares, not wholesale chopping.

That said, I hope you fine folks working the front line realize how much we DO appreciate you. I for one go out of my way to say thank you to everyone I come in contact with--from gate agents to club reps to flight crews. YOU are the reason we stay, and we appreciate you more than you'll ever know.

I know some of you are familiar with FFOCUS (Frequent Fliers Organized and Committed to US Airways Success). US Airways is the ONLY major airline which has a customer group organized to support their survival and future growth. We have been very vocal in support of the employees who keep us loyal.

I know it's tough out there, but for what it's worth, we the frequent fliers DO appreciate you, and we let everyone know that YOU are the reason we keep coming back. We are very grateful that most of you continue to put your best face forward and provide service with a smile to your loyal customers.

So please remember if anyone has an idea to bash the customer, it's the market that is responsible for most of this problem.

....It ain't just miles, my friends......


My best to you all....

I resent that comment.

I am going W A Y out on a limb to keep booking US. Not that it is convenient for me. Not that the service isn't slipping in a major way. Not that the front line folks that I come in contact with in the past weeks aren't in major foul moods (and I don't blame them) and not particularly professional or helpful.............

Call me crazy, but I keep on booking travel with US through next summer at this point. And lots of it. Just booked 3 business trips on US within the last 48 hours. Some of it in Feb 2005 -- I have no idea if US will even be around then. But you should know that the O N L Y reason I booked on US was to do my small share to keep the whole ship afloat. I have too many pals out there working for US NOT to care.

Please don't shortchange us here on FT. We REALLY do want you to succeed and come out healthy on the other side of this thing. However, if customer service and employee attitudes remain as dismal as they've been the past month, eventually I'll move on, too........

I just want to add my voice to sbtinme's. I, too, continue to book on US well into 2005 and at premium prices and full fares. I think the reason you're not hearing more on this particular thread is that there's not much more to be said that hasn't been already. If we didn't appreciate the airline and its staff, we wouldn't care so much about its survival.

I understand the psychology that leads people to unite against a common enemy in a time of stress. In this case, it's not completely clear who your common enemy is (certainly management has been a top selection for employees, even if the worst culprits are long gone). One thing seems pretty clear to me, however, and that is that the more employees add "the customer" to the list of common enemies - as it seems like you're implying from your post, FlyGirl - the sad ending we're all hoping to avoid will get rapidly closer.

One other thing, FlyGirl - in your post you say "The only difference is, is that the "one a year flyer" has no idea what they are buying into. That ignorance, I can understand. I wouldn't know either if I didn't work here. It's the people who do know, and still are crying about points, etc. that can make a long day longer."

Isn't your *real* enemy here the people who fly JetBlue and Southwest and enable USAir's fare structure to be undercut? I can tell you what, JetBlue and Southwest frequent flyers care a lot less about points than your customer. The more people that care about points and status the better for the continued survival of your employer.

. . . Having a happy coexistence with one another is the problem. I blame the industry forces for what is going on . . . . It's the people who do know, and still are crying about points, etc. that can make a long day longer.

Flygirl,

Thanks for your reply, your point is well taken. I work in health care, & your words ring a bell with me there.

We live in an increasingly "me-centered" society which emphasizes individualism, self-esteem, and accomplishment above all other things, but takes no account of the consequences of thoughtless or unrestrained actions. Same idea applies to big business.

Between people, it manifests itself in strained, terse relationships and folks who are a pain-in-the you know what. In business, it's about profit at any cost as employers cut wages and benefits, while delivering lower quality service/products. And the customer is happy because they get "the best price". What else is Black Friday but a feeding frenzy of folks who push and shove each other to to spend their hard-earned $$ on "stuff" ( some of which they don't need -- but it fulfills the individual and puts money into corporate coffers).

So you're right. What US is going through is the airline version of this phenomenon.

Well, my wife and I won't be flying US again until January. Best holiday wishes to you and US employees during this Christmas season during which the Grinch is trying to steal the tree, fireplace, and the Christmas ham. ;)

Barry

I just want to add my voice to sbtinme's. I, too, continue to book on US well into 2005 and at premium prices and full fares. I think the reason you're not hearing more on this particular thread is that there's not much more to be said that hasn't been already. If we didn't appreciate the airline and its staff, we wouldn't care so much about its survival.

I understand the psychology that leads people to unite against a common enemy in a time of stress. In this case, it's not completely clear who your common enemy is (certainly management has been a top selection for employees, even if the worst culprits are long gone). One thing seems pretty clear to me, however, and that is that the more employees add "the customer" to the list of common enemies - as it seems like you're implying from your post, FlyGirl - the sad ending we're all hoping to avoid will get rapidly closer.

One other thing, FlyGirl - in your post you say "The only difference is, is that the "one a year flyer" has no idea what they are buying into. That ignorance, I can understand. I wouldn't know either if I didn't work here. It's the people who do know, and still are crying about points, etc. that can make a long day longer."

Isn't your *real* enemy here the people who fly JetBlue and Southwest and enable USAir's fare structure to be undercut? I can tell you what, JetBlue and Southwest frequent flyers care a lot less about points than your customer. The more people that care about points and status the better for the continued survival of your employer.

You ask if the "real" enemy is the customers who fly jetBlue and Southwest. Again, it's not the customer. when jetBlue came into the scene, they were offered deferred airplane loans (which they haven't started paying back yet), waived landing fees, waived gates fees, and of course new hire wages to EVERYONE. No senior work force or retiree pension plans to contend with. So, of course they can offer "next to nothing" fares and still survive. Many airports, trying to draw LCC's to their city, waive airport fees while charging top dollar to the legacy carriers. Take St. Croix for example. The airport wanted to TRIPLE US's landing fees. We no longer have service there. And their economy which trived on tourism, is suffering. We can't do that to every city because everyone would suffer, but come on....be realistic with fees. Southwest has a different story. They are smart in hedging fuel, utilizing their fleet to the max., etc. Southwest also gets the waived airport/landing fees deal too. At some airports, not free, but greatly discounted. Those fees are a lot of money. So, to recap, it is not the customer. I say blame the politicians! LOL!
BigRed, it seems like you want me to say I hate customers - I don't. So, don't put words in my mouth. I'll tell you what I feel, no implying necessary.

Flygirl,

This is completely unfair. Why would some airlines get FREE or waived fees and the legacy carries have to pay? That is totally not right! Why aren't the legacy carriers doing something about this? It's like some of these airports want the legacies to go out of business.

Flygirl,

This is completely unfair. Why would some airlines get FREE or waived fees and the legacy carries have to pay? That is totally not right! Why aren't the legacy carriers doing something about this? It's like some of these airports want the legacies to go out of business.

This sort of thing happens here in the good old USofA all the time, every day. Most airports here are owned and operated by the municipalities where they are located. Local and regional taxes largely fund their operation. So, they have some responsibility to generate good returns on the community's investment, as it were.

Here in Maine, you can bet your boots that our transportation director has been courting Southwest and AirTran and JetBlue for many many months now. You can also bet your boots that the offer that he makes to these carriers is FAR SWEETER than any deal currently enjoyed by airlines that already fly here.

Why? In a nutshell, just look at Manchester NH. That airport in five years went from a New England medium sized regional air field with okay mainline service to all the places you'd expect (DCA, PHL, PIT, DTW, ORD, IAD, etc). After years of lobbying, Southwest makes a grand entrance into the marketplace, spends big bucks to announce the new service and pax travel in and out of that facility has MORE THAN DOUBLED in five years. Airfares have plummeted. The airport is enjoying higher revenues than ever thought possible. They have a monstrous new parking garage facility that they are about to outgrow for the third time in 5 years.

In short, LCCs can and do make a significant difference for the communities they serve. I offer neither my support nor my resistance to them here, I am just pointing out these realities.

In many places in the US, particularly in the South, smaller communities court Wal*Mart to build new superstores in their town or community. They go so far as to offer huge tax incentives or deferred taxes that NO OTHER RETAILER could ever hope to enjoy. I hate this stuff, but it's the reality of business these days. If town X doesn't make such an offer, Wal*Mart can count on the neighboring town Y to do so -- then, they'll just build in town Y. Town X loses the sales tax revenues and town Y doesn't. Who wins in the end? You be the judge.

You ask if the "real" enemy is the customers who fly jetBlue and Southwest. Again, it's not the customer. when jetBlue came into the scene, they were offered deferred airplane loans (which they haven't started paying back yet), waived landing fees, waived gates fees, and of course new hire wages to EVERYONE. No senior work force or retiree pension plans to contend with. So, of course they can offer "next to nothing" fares and still survive. Many airports, trying to draw LCC's to their city, waive airport fees while charging top dollar to the legacy carriers. Take St. Croix for example. The airport wanted to TRIPLE US's landing fees. We no longer have service there. And their economy which trived on tourism, is suffering. We can't do that to every city because everyone would suffer, but come on....be realistic with fees. Southwest has a different story. They are smart in hedging fuel, utilizing their fleet to the max., etc. Southwest also gets the waived airport/landing fees deal too. At some airports, not free, but greatly discounted. Those fees are a lot of money. So, to recap, it is not the customer. I say blame the politicians! LOL!
BigRed, it seems like you want me to say I hate customers - I don't. So, don't put words in my mouth. I'll tell you what I feel, no implying necessary.

Please flygirl, don't let the facts get in the way of your specious arguments. Its an urban myth that Jetblue received special treatment on their aircraft order (or "deferred aircraft loans", as you call it). They pay for ALL of their aircraft just as USAirways does. They paid more for the initial A320's than USAirways did, and obtained operating leases or loans with financial institutions just like USAirways did.

As for St. Croix, they raised landing fees 25% to all carriers across the board (which isn't exactly triple, but please don't let facts get in the way of a woeful story), and USAirways elected to pull out. Not exactly a conspiracy there. Its too bad that because of USAirways being forced to pull out of St. Croix tourism is suffering, but its also magnanimous of USAirways not to pull out of every city, because of course (USAirways) "can't do that to every city, because everyone would suffer"

JetBlue's landing fees at JFK are 5 times USAirways in Charlotte, so landing fees aren't exactly the problem either. The fact that some underserved cities offer concessions for LCC service shouldn't be a shock. Of course they aren't offered to USAirways, because these cities know that eventually a round trip fare from Rochester to Greensboro will be $1,000 on USAirways absent LCC competition. Who wants that?

Yes, JetBlue does have a cost advantage, because it properly utilizes its assets - both equipment and people (and the employees are less senior). But it also has other advantages as well, better customer service - starting with the web site, continuing to reservations (if necessary), and on to the airport and in the air. USAirways does have first class, where you get a larger seat ... and nothing else.

In summary, I would figure out someone besides the politicians (and the customers) to blame.

I had to look up "specious".

No upgrade for u, you are the second person to suggest than I blame the customer. Where does that come from? Since we are taking apart peoples' responses, here is mine. The aggression I get from your response suggests that YOU hate airlines and FA's. Maybe you have heard "no upgrade for u" one too many times. Now it is my fault. Very original....blame the FA for your missed upgrade/lost bag/missed flight/divorce/pimple on your ..., etc.
As for blaming politics for my "woeful" situation, I recall adding an "LOL" afterward. You know, "laugh out loud". Try it sometime. It takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile.

No upgrade for u, you are the second person to suggest than I blame the customer. Where does that come from?

Just to be clear on this, PiedmontGurl started this with a long article talking about the toll that the current troubles have caused on USAir employees, and asking us to recognize that "there IS a human aspect to the situation!".

You then said: "Don't expect pages on this thread, PiedmontGurl...you hit the nail on the head. It IS about money & miles.".

This says two things pretty clearly:

1. You believe that FlyerTalk members who are USAir customers and that post on this board don't care about the "human aspect", rather that we only care about ourselves, our cheap fares and earning miles.
2. You think this attitude that you ascribe to FT members and USAir customers is a bad one.

Are you trying to say that calling us unfeeling and saying that we're only in it for cheap fares and frequent flyer miles is doesn't demonize us, some of USAir's best customers?

As you can see from a lot of threads and posts, there are a lot of people who fly a LOT and who really want the best for the good people who work at USAir. I know I do. Why push us away by calling us mercenary and heartless?

As you can see from a lot of threads and posts, there are a lot of people who fly a LOT and who really want the best for the good people who work at USAir. I know I do. Why push us away by calling us mercenary and heartless?

I am not disagreeing with you at all BigRed93. I for one support US and it's front line employees all the way however, when you come to the US forum on flier talk. Much of the posts here are NEGATIVE against US Airways. And people may mean it mostly towards management. But they are not specific many of the times when they say so. They blame US for this and blame US for that. Remember the flight attendants, reservation agents and all the other employees are US as well.

There are not too many productive posts on here anymore. Many of the posts are just about Bi***ing and complaining about US. US Airways is in Ch11 for the second time and is flirting with ch7. Many people who post on here wanting US to survive so much are the same ones posting wanting something more out of the company than the company can give right now because it does not have the money to do so. Anyone tries to start a good productive post someone comes in and craps all over it.

I wish all of us could come up with some creative ideas on how we can help turn US around instead of shouting in the wind. We can keep US flying.

Why can't we start a thread on ways to help US to start to make money and give suggestions to turn things around? Come up with creative ideas that maybe people in CCY have not thought of. Something both the customer and the company can both benefit from.

I think many of us here really want US to make it (there are a few who really do not and have said so in public on here). We need to keep flying them "like crazy" as one thread put it.

Too all the employees of US I am very sorry to what is happening to your company and really hope you all make it. I will fly you to the bitter end if that happens. You front line employees are some of the best out there and there is no doubt about it in my mind.

Interesting to see St. Croix here. Not be go OT but I live in STX and fly back and forth from there to DCA every 2 weeks. Despite what was reported here, air traffic numbers are up 48% so far this year to STX and that is without USAir's daily flights (Saturday only). Last year the numbers were way up too.

I'm stuck with Caribbean Sun to connect to the mainline in San Juan now. Its not a fun travel day, but at least the SJU-PHL segment is on the A330! I ran this on American for about 6 months after US left, and after my last voyage got me there 3 days late with no weather problems I had to make the switch back. I've been doing US for a year now and even with the less convenient itinerary, paper tickets, and puddle jumpers, I am much happier and actually where I need to be on time!

For 2 years now air travel numbers have been rising in STX. I was really hoping that with their focus on the Caribbean out of FLL I'd see the return of daily jet service from the mainland via US. DL is adding twice weekly service to the big island, and even with the higher landing fees (which apply to ALL airlines), it seems like the increase in demand to STX could get us a few more mainline flights from US!

Sean

Please flygirl, don't let the facts get in the way of your specious arguments. Its an urban myth that Jetblue received special treatment on their aircraft order (or "deferred aircraft loans", as you call it). They pay for ALL of their aircraft just as USAirways does. They paid more for the initial A320's than USAirways did, and obtained operating leases or loans with financial institutions just like USAirways did.

As for St. Croix, they raised landing fees 25% to all carriers across the board (which isn't exactly triple, but please don't let facts get in the way of a woeful story), and USAirways elected to pull out. Not exactly a conspiracy there. Its too bad that because of USAirways being forced to pull out of St. Croix tourism is suffering, but its also magnanimous of USAirways not to pull out of every city, because of course (USAirways) "can't do that to every city, because everyone would suffer"

JetBlue's landing fees at JFK are 5 times USAirways in Charlotte, so landing fees aren't exactly the problem either. The fact that some underserved cities offer concessions for LCC service shouldn't be a shock. Of course they aren't offered to USAirways, because these cities know that eventually a round trip fare from Rochester to Greensboro will be $1,000 on USAirways absent LCC competition. Who wants that?

Yes, JetBlue does have a cost advantage, because it properly utilizes its assets - both equipment and people (and the employees are less senior). But it also has other advantages as well, better customer service - starting with the web site, continuing to reservations (if necessary), and on to the airport and in the air. USAirways does have first class, where you get a larger seat ... and nothing else.

In summary, I would figure out someone besides the politicians (and the customers) to blame.

1. You believe that FlyerTalk members who are USAir customers and that post on this board don't care about the "human aspect", rather that we only care about ourselves, our cheap fares and earning miles.
2. You think this attitude that you ascribe to FT members and USAir customers is a bad one.

Are you trying to say that calling us unfeeling and saying that we're only in it for cheap fares and frequent flyer miles is doesn't demonize us, some of USAir's best customers?

!. This post was started on 12/5/04. We are on page two. Eight days later. Maybe with this post we might squeak to page three.
2. There are many wonderful US customers. There are also many who care about their miles too. Do you agree? Now, the people who fall into this category are the crybabies who are on this site poo-pooing about those miles and points. If you would read all the posts in FT, the majority are complaints. Now, with all the drama going on, I'm sure the "good" stories might go a little lean. But, people love to bit*h. They should call this Bit*hTalk. Whenever I have a customer ask for a comment card to complain, I give them two. I tell them to write up the complaint, but don't forget to write up their next good experience too.
3. I have no problem with cheap fares. Just don't have a temper tantrum when you are in the last row center seat. See, in a 4 leg day on the 767, that's 812 crybabies crying that I have to listen to.
4. I like this number thing.

Can we all agree to bury this aimless thread? Happy holidays! :) ^