Looks like for the same dollars, I can fly from WAS to Italy and back with Z tickets on US in a 333 in the front row (the seats are empty, and available), or on UA on a 777 in C class. This would be in Feb.

Will US still be around?

Will UA still be around?

Which would you choose today,and predict would have better service, food, etc. in Feb, given the current environment?

Could also go on AF or AZ whatever they call business class for same dollars, but have not done much with SkyTeam.

Looks like for the same dollars, I can fly from WAS to Italy and back with Z tickets on US in a 333 in the front row (the seats are empty, and available), or on UA on a 777 in C class. This would be in Feb.

Will US still be around?

Will UA still be around?

Which would you choose today,and predict would have better service, food, etc. in Feb, given the current environment?

Could also go on AF or AZ whatever they call business class for same dollars, but have not done much with SkyTeam.

UA will be around. Nobody knows about US.

I've flown both......UA has a true 3 class service, which is head and shoulders above US envoy. However I do like row 1 in the A330 on US........it's just a matter of the amentities and service provide by UA that would put me in C on UA versus Envoy on US.

Where do you want to earn miles? If *A, then it's UA or US.

Also, I don't think UA fly to Italy anymore. If this is correct, then you would have to connect, probably at LHR or FRA.

personally i would rather have row 1 on the 330 than C on UA...

synd

The last time I flew US Envoy PHL-CDG, I was VERY disappointed in the service--especially the food, which was crap. If it's an option for you, I might take US to Europe to get a good night of sleep in Row 1, and then take UA back from Europe to enjoy better in-flight service and a still-comfy seat.

why I like Envoy better than UA C or AF J. (sorry that's all i can base my comparison uppon)

1) Row 1 - for me this is the best part, I don't mind doing SFO-PHL-CDG instead of a direct SFO-CDG, just to be able to sleep, even on the return, those couple hours of sleep i get really confortably makes all the difference in the world IMO! Much less jetLag!
You guys might shoot me for this, but just for sleeping I find it more comfortable in Row1 than in UA F. Why? because in UA F I touch the end of the footrest and i hate that! also my favorite sleeping position is with my legs slighty higher up than my butt and my head also, kind of like a low angled V. and i can't do that in UA F...
But then of course I am not saying I like Row1 better than UA F... just for sleeping

2) IFE - honestly UA IFE sucks, from the small personal screens to the non AVOD of UA. The only downside is that US doesn't change their movies too often.. last year when i did one R/T every month between SFO-CDG (for 6 months) I really felt like most of the movie choices were the same for at least 2 months.

3) Recline in Regular Envoy -- the few times (2) I was not in Row 1 I found that UA C seats recline less than Envoy seats. not by much though

------ On the other hand reasons why I like UA C:
1) Food and Service is better, even though most of the FA's in US i have been with are great, and are all over me, (maybe because I look like i'm 16-17 :D )

2) Direct Flight between SFO-CDG lol! not having to seat in US F especially on the return trip for a couple hours is great. on the way over it's fine since you're going from worst to a better product

--- Why I like and not Like AF (old) J:

PROS:

1) MUCH BETTER FOOD
2) French speaking Flight Attendants
3) seat width and comfortable to sit in.
4) Bars on 777

CONS:

1) seat recline sucks
2) Rude Personel at CDG even for french speaking

--- Summary:

Well I guess for me what I value most is sleep then IFE. Food and Beverages are nice but still for me not the most important when I travel. That's why I would rather take US Envoy than UA C.

sorry i know this was a long post!

In terms of UA vs US, have to say that the seat and in on demand in flight entertainment in Envoy (A330) beats UA.

UA seat needs to be adjusted manually and the IFE is on a cycle.

Food and amenities are probably a little superior in UA (you still get a kit) although it seems that UA has also scaled this back a little also.

The 777 seems a little noiser than a 330, it also seems a little romier, but there is a center seat in business. From what I remember UA's 747 also have a center seat in business downstairs. I think however US's 747's typically go to Aisa with 777 and 767 serving the transatlantic routes.

Would imagine that a UA 767 is far superior to the US 767, but have no direct experience of this.

shuttle_boy you're right, if we're talking about US 767 in C vs any UA in C, i'll definitively go UA!

synd

In terms of UA vs US, have to say that the seat and in on demand in flight entertainment in Envoy (A330) beats UA.

Agreed. It's not even close.

UA seat needs to be adjusted manually and the IFE is on a cycle.

Food and amenities are probably a little superior in UA (you still get a kit) although it seems that UA has also scaled this back a little also.

The 777 seems a little noiser than a 330, it also seems a little romier, but there is a center seat in business. From what I remember UA's 747 also have a center seat in business downstairs. I think however US's 747's typically go to Aisa with 777 and 767 serving the transatlantic routes.

This is generally true, but they've got a 747-400 on one IAD-LHR and one IAD-FRA run at the moment.

UA's 747's are 2-3-2 across in C on the lower deck and 2-2 on the upper deck.

Would imagine that a UA 767 is far superior to the US 767, but have no direct experience of this.

They are. UA's 767-300ER's are quite nice up front and are in better shape than US's 767-200ER's. They're used on a lot of transatlantic runs that don't support the size of a 777-200, such as IAD-ZRH. I wouldn't hesitate to take one.

If going to Italy (presumably FCO), I'd go for the US 333 first, with a connection from UA or US to Lufthansa through FRA as the backup option. LH also has a 747 on IAD-FRA that is a UA codeshare (if needed for corporate travel policy compliance), so that's a third option across the pond.

UA's 747's are 2-3-2 across in C on the lower deck and 2-2 on the upper deck.

As noted, UA C has 3 across on main deck of 747 and all of 777. But these planes feel much more spacious than the 330, IMHO. While one would generally not choose the middle seat, it isn't all that bad, especially in rows 25 & 26 on the 747 and 8 & 9 on the 777.


LH also has a 747 on IAD-FRA that is a UA codeshare (if needed for corporate travel policy compliance), so that's a third option across the pond.

Avoid LH C on 747's until they upgrade them to new C. It is a very inferior product. Seats only have 48" pitch, limited IFE (like UA :( ) Only take this as an alternative to Y.

As noted, UA C has 3 across on main deck of 747 and all of 777. But these planes feel much more spacious than the 330, IMHO. While one would generally not choose the middle seat, it isn't all that bad, especially in rows 25 & 26 on the 747 and 8 & 9 on the 777.
I would always go for the upper deck on the 747, including on UA's. Quieter and nice up there.

Avoid LH C on 747's until they upgrade them to new C. It is a very inferior product. Seats only have 48" pitch, limited IFE (like UA :( ) Only take this as an alternative to Y.
Ah yes, thanks for this reminder. Good thing I listed it as the third option ;) My experiences with LH service and food are generally positive though, in both C and Y.

One other thing I would say: go for FRA or MUC for connections to Italy if you don't go on US. Much as I like the Brits and their country, I loathe LHR regardless of whether it's my point of origin, destination, or if I'm connecting.

The service on both carriers just depends on the crew.

The food and drinks on both carriers are ABOUT the same. But who expects great food on a plane? And I finally learned that drinking much on planes really drains my energy and keeps me from sleeping in-flight.

I find UA's C seats to be much more comfortable to US's C A330 seats. I just can't begin to sleep sideways on US. And I keep getting "pins and needles" in my legs and hips in the US C A330 seats. This is VERY bad for DVT risk.

BUT...

US's A330's row 1 is FAR superior to UA's C. If you can actually confirm row 1 now, well that makes things quite different.

BUT...

I certainly believe that despite the union concessions, US still has some very negative cashflow nightmares thanks to a lot of problems, including Southwast at PHL! And negative cashflow will kill them with so little cash reserves. And this is the very worst season for airline cashflow that US is entering into right now!

SO...

Although some think that US will survive, I really think that the likelyhood of US flying in February is 50/50. This is despite my genuine fondness for US.

Good luck with this tough decision.

I must say that as pointed out above the US frequency of new movies is absolutely appauling. One new movies in two months and two in three months is ridiculous, I have virtually nothing to watch.

UA however change nearly 80% of them every month it appears and although not on demand and as flexible I would rather have more more to watch that a few.

Otherwise Row 1 is good for sleeping but I found it bloody uncomfortable to sit in and read and watch TV as the headrest is not that adjustable and the seat back very straight. Service on US though is excellent.

I must say that as pointed out above the US frequency of new movies is absolutely appauling. One new movies in two months and two in three months is ridiculous, I have virtually nothing to watch.

UA however change nearly 80% of them every month it appears and although not on demand and as flexible I would rather have more more to watch that a few.

Otherwise Row 1 is good for sleeping but I found it bloody uncomfortable to sit in and read and watch TV as the headrest is not that adjustable and the seat back very straight. Service on US though is excellent.

I concur! Row 1 is great for sleeping but I always try to get row 3 on the return. The former FC cabin, where Row 1 resides on the 330, can be stuffy and also dark. I agree the seats are not the most comfortable for sitting up, getting work done, etc. But they rock for sleeping!!

Two comments:

US is now giving out kits again...at least they did on my last flight from PHL to LGW (but not on the return).

The IFE is only as good as the content on it. Since US now adds about ONE new movie per month, it doesn't take too many flights to have seen the entire frickin' catalog of films.....even if I did want to see "Thirteen Going on Thirty" (again).....

I saw that on a flight from Rome in August...it is now December and is still on the IFE ????

Puh-lease.

jas3


In terms of UA vs US, have to say that the seat and in on demand in flight entertainment in Envoy (A330) beats UA.

UA seat needs to be adjusted manually and the IFE is on a cycle.

Food and amenities are probably a little superior in UA (you still get a kit) although it seems that UA has also scaled this back a little also.

The 777 seems a little noiser than a 330, it also seems a little romier, but there is a center seat in business. From what I remember UA's 747 also have a center seat in business downstairs. I think however US's 747's typically go to Aisa with 777 and 767 serving the transatlantic routes.

Would imagine that a UA 767 is far superior to the US 767, but have no direct experience of this.

If I were you, I would fly Air France in their L'Espace Affaires/Business Class, which now features lie-flat seats. Both United and US Airways offer a rather mediocre C Class product. Alitalia, in my opinion, is even worse, especially in their ancient 767s. The attitude of Air France cabin crew varies greatly, but AF new lie-flat seats are very, very comfortable (you can view some pictures at www.airliners.net). Of the four carriers, Air France offers the best meals. AF also gives you a nice amenity kit and blanket (unlike the ridiculous amenity kit United and US Airways offer). If you fly AF, you can accrue miles on Continental, Delta, or Northwest. I hope this helps.

I think of the choices you offered I would go UA. Ive done 3 or 4 business class to Europe on US this year and a bit less on UA. I think the overall US product has deteriorated so much that I wouldnt consider it if I was paying full fare. If miles are important to you (how could they not be ;) ) then Lufthansa or United depending on the connections, etc. If not, BA all the way on transatlantic from what I have read. I havent flown them in a few years but last time I did the food and service in BA coach was probably near what US C is today. Another one to consider is Virgin.

Have always slected upstairs on a UA 747 when in C where I have had a choice. Concur?

Does a anyone know what portion of the LH fleet has flat beds in buisiness. Flew the A340 from BOS-FRA in first and noted that it had cradle seats in C cabin

Have always slected upstairs on a UA 747 when in C where I have had a choice. Concur?

Absolutely!

I can't believe so many of you are fans of UnitedBusiness. To start off, the amenity kit is a joke, the seats are hard to recline and extending the leg rest can be a mission sometimes. Even US Airways offers electronic controls for all seats of their A330 aircraft. The UnitedBusiness meals are ok, but certainly very far below European carriers' business class standards. Come on now, those UA 747s are getting really old.

Implying that UnitedBusiness is superior to Air France's L'Espace Affairs is so ignorant.

I can't believe so many of you are fans of UnitedBusiness. To start off, the amenity kit is a joke, the seats are hard to recline and extending the leg rest can be a mission sometimes. Even US Airways offers electronic controls for all seats of their A330 aircraft. The UnitedBusiness meals are ok, but certainly very far below European carriers' business class standards. Come on now, those UA 747s are getting really old.

Implying that UnitedBusiness is superior to Air France's L'Espace Affairs is so ignorant.

Well. I think it is rather ignorant to say that any of us said that United was superior to Air France. I said it was superior to US. That's what several of us have said. I specifically said that if the person who asked didnt care about points to fly BA. I would much rather connect in Heathrow than at CDG which always reminds me of the term "chaosatron". Also, FYI, probably flown transatlantic on UA about 30 times, maybe more. Never been on a 744 to the best of my recollection.

Even in Row 1 on a 330 I would prefer UA business. Even if it was a 744. I havent flown them transatlantic but have flown them. The upper deck is great but the rest is nice too.

But the poster seems to prefer getting * A miles. And so for the specific question, Row 1 on A330 or business on a UA777 I wouldnt hesitate to take the UA777. Done both numerous times. Wouldnt think twice about going with UA given the choice.

I can't believe so many of you are fans of UnitedBusiness. To start off, the amenity kit is a joke, the seats are hard to recline and extending the leg rest can be a mission sometimes. Even US Airways offers electronic controls for all seats of their A330 aircraft. The UnitedBusiness meals are ok, but certainly very far below European carriers' business class standards. Come on now, those UA 747s are getting really old.

Implying that UnitedBusiness is superior to Air France's L'Espace Affairs is so ignorant.

Then be sure to enjoy US's Business Class.

And who really cares about the ammenity kit? I've now packed 4 "paper boxes" full with them in my basement!

I can't believe so many of you are fans of UnitedBusiness. To start off, the amenity kit is a joke, ...
And why is that? IMO, it's one of the more complete amenity kits I receive; it has more stuff in it than what SQ, LH & LX provide.


the seats are hard to recline ...
Um, pull lever, lean back. It's not really all that hard. And check out this thread (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361653) with many opinions based on experience in UA's seats that you report are so hard to recline.


... and extending the leg rest can be a mission sometimes.
Sometimes, yes; most of the time, they're fine.


Even US Airways offers electronic controls for all seats of their A330 aircraft.
Electronic controls are not always that great. On LX, the seat sometimes moves, at least to me, in unpredictable ways.


The UnitedBusiness meals are ok, but certainly very far below European carriers' business class standards. Not compared to LH or LX, IMHO. But YMMV. But you speak with such ... certainty.


Come on now, those UA 747s are getting really old.
Ah, but that spacious feeling of being on a 747. Then there's the upper deck. You get neither on the 330's or 340's, both of which feel cramped to me.



Implying that UnitedBusiness is superior to Air France's L'Espace Affairs is so ignorant.

The only thing that is so ignorant is implying that opinions that differ from yours are ignorant. Keep in mind one of the best uses of these forums is to share experiences and opinions.

Forgive me 1KBill, I did not realize you were so sensitive about UnitedBusiness. Then again, makes sense since you are a 1K.

First of all, let me clarify something, perhaps you did not read carefully, but no where in my previous post did I compare UnitedBusiness to SQ, LH, or LX Business Class.

However, let me tell you one thing, it's obvious you have never flown SQ Raffles Class, b/c if you did, you would know that even if your theory that SQ gives an inferior amenity kit in comparison to UnitedBusiness, SQ still offers a 5-star business class product whereas UA's business class only qualifies for a 3-star rating, huge difference.

Next, both LH and LX offer a 4-star business class product, in case you did not know. I have flown Swiss many times and I find their amenity kit to be simple but useful. Oh, and by the way, at least Swiss offers an angled lie-flat seat in business class with 60'' pitch versus United's 55'' seat pitch, non electronic controls, and of course, not even close to being flat.

You clearly go out of the line of duty to comment that it does not matter that the UnitedBusiness seat controls are not electronic and hard to operate. You may want to wake up and smell the coffee, but all the best airlines out there feature electronic controls for their business class seats.

I strongly suggest you visit www.airlinequality.com and see all the negative comments passengers right not only about UnitedBusiness, but UnitedFirst flat bed seats as well, in fact, most passengers have rated the UnitedFirst seat as 1/10, and we all know those seats are way better than the UnitedBusiness seats. You called me ignorant for not respecting others' opinions, yet many other opinions seem to agree with mine, maybe not on here, but certainly out there.

I hate to break it to you, but your beloved airline is actually a mediocre 3-star airline. All the other airlines you criticize, such as Lufthansa, Swiss, and Singapore Airlines are in the 4-5 star range. Cheers.

Forgive me 1KBill, I did not realize you were so sensitive about UnitedBusiness. Then again, makes sense since you are a 1K.
First of all, let me clarify something, perhaps you did not read carefully, but no where in my previous post did I compare UnitedBusiness to SQ, LH, or LX Business Class.
I compared United to the carriers with whom I have had personal experience in business class; you did compare UA meals to European carriers’. And I am sensitive about erroneous comments, not United Business.
However, let me tell you one thing, it's obvious you have never flown SQ Raffles Class, b/c if you did, you would know that even if your theory that SQ gives an inferior amenity kit in comparison to UnitedBusiness, SQ still offers a 5-star business class product whereas UA's business class only qualifies for a 3-star rating, huge difference.
Obvious or not, I have flown SQ several times, in Raffles Class. Their business class is a very nice product. The IFE on SQ blows most other carriers out of the air. Other than that, I find it more or less comparable to others, except that I find their food to be lousy. Sorry, that’s just my opinion. And I expect that most will disagree with me. Whatever.
Next, both LH and LX offer a 4-star business class product, in case you did not know. I have flown Swiss many times and I find their amenity kit to be simple but useful. Oh, and by the way, at least Swiss offers an angled lie-flat seat in business class with 60'' pitch versus United's 55'' seat pitch, non electronic controls, and of course, not even close to being flat.
Yes, LX does have a seat that is flat. Have you used it? I did. It is very comfortable for sitting. But in its angled flat position, I found myself sliding toward the floor, because of the slant; it is utterly useless in its flat position. Contrast that to NW, whose WBC seat is also flat, but it reclines to 176 degrees, which makes it very comfortable for sleeping. Until LX fixes the slant problem, they shouldn’t bother about the lie-flat part.

I find LH (old) C product to be vastly inferior. I will never again pay for an old C seat on LH. It is by no means 4 star, IMO. You obviously disagree, although with LH seats having 7” less pitch that UA’s business class, the same style manual controls and IFE, I find some inconsistency in your rating system. I haven’t yet flown LH new C, so I can’t comment on it.
You clearly go out of the line of duty to comment that it does not matter that the UnitedBusiness seat controls are not electronic and hard to operate. You may want to wake up and smell the coffee, but all the best airlines out there feature electronic controls for their business class seats.
Yes, the seats are manual control. As long as I can easily get the seat into a comfortable position, I don’t care how it gets there. To me, they are not hard to operate; to you they are difficult.
I strongly suggest you visit www.airlinequality.com and see all the negative comments passengers right not only about UnitedBusiness, but UnitedFirst flat bed seats as well, in fact, most passengers have rated the UnitedFirst seat as 1/10, and we all know those seats are way better than the UnitedBusiness seats. You called me ignorant for not respecting others' opinions, yet many other opinions seem to agree with mine, maybe not on here, but certainly out there.
I have visited that site many times. I do find their charts with comparisons of seat pitch, seat arrangements, etc. to be useful. Regarding the opinions offered, I find the sample sizes to be small (well less than 100), especially compared to FlyerTalk. And based on comments from many others in these forums as well as my own reading of the opinions on airlinequality.com, the site appears to me to be a shill for airlines paying for coverage. I don’t trust it.
I have flown F on United, Qantas and Lufthansa. And you know what? All three are very fine products. I would not recommend any one over the others on the basis of the F product alone; other factors would come into play, such as route coverage, FF programs, etc.
I hate to break it to you, but your beloved airline is actually a mediocre 3-star airline. All the other airlines you criticize, such as Lufthansa, Swiss, and Singapore Airlines are in the 4-5 star range. Cheers.
That is your opinion, which is welcomed. You do not have to break it to me.

Until the new seats arrive, I go out of my way to avoid LH C. LH's food is marginally better than UA and its service is more consistent (efficient but stiff). But the horrible seats trumps all -- it's next to impossible to sleep on LH.

As for AF v. UA, I would like to know what AF you have been flying on. On my last IAD-CDG, my partner and I were the only pax in F and AF still managed to provide rude and inattentive service. It was the worst international F service that I have ever had. The food was mediocre (tried 2 entrees both ways and all 4 were quite bad) though the wine was vastly superior to UA. I now avoid AF whenever possible.

I've done Raffles, LH Business, US Envoy and UA Business and quite frankly I find UA Business all around at least as good as the other 3. In terms of First Class, I find Lufthansa far superior to SQ's much-hyped product. On the other hand, the seats and the food in Lufthansa business cause me to prefer United over them any day. I personally don't care much for the Singapore staff-- very phony in my book-- like they were trying to flirt but because they think it's their job to do so. Now, if a United maitrin does that, you know it's genuine!