I read that GE and US struck a deal. GE does the engine maintenance and also leases aircraft to US. Part of the deal is for US to trade in 25 Airbus aircraft in exchange for leases on 25 regional jets.

Q: What routes will this affect? I assume not overseas. I suspect this is going to cause a major blow to FF trying to upgrade.

I read that GE and US struck a deal. GE does the engine maintenance and also leases aircraft to US. Part of the deal is for US to trade in 25 Airbus aircraft in exchange for leases on 25 regional jets.

Q: What routes will this affect? I assume not overseas. I suspect this is going to cause a major blow to FF trying to upgrade.

We were told that it would be 10 737's and 15 319's. "Supposedly" in Feb 2005 when the more productive flying occurs, there will be no changes. I'm not sure what role the RJ's will play.

removed cuz i posted incorrect information

One thing to consider. While more and more RJs does obviously prevent upgrades - a seat on US's new Embraer 170's, flown on more and more routes, is substantially more comfortable than a coach seat on any other plane used for domestic service, especially US's beat up old 737's. So while it's not first class, for all those flights that you could not upgrade - you're far better off on an E170. Now CRJ's and ERJ's are a whole other story....

Only the 737s will be leaving in 2005. The Airbus' won't be returned until 06/07 and a lot can change between now and then.

Wrong. All 10 A319 in 2005, 15 B737 over the course of 2006/07.

When you can't borrow conventionally, you do what you have to do. Given a choice of miseries, they are dumping the planes they can most afford to. The 737's are long in the tooth, and if they unload the first 319's they got, it probably relieves a maintenance headache. The original Airbus order was heavily weighted to the smaller 319, Only later was the 321 contemplated, and the subsequent order for them increased. I never understood why they had so many small planes. They are being very creative, seeking to use payroll savings as de facto financing, and increasing utilization of aircraft, in order to produce the same seat miles from fewer planes. They are really doing some good thinking on the operations side, but the Philly nightmare looms large. If they can just work on that, along with cooperative lenders, they have a better shot. Nice to see there isn't a lot of buzz. No provocative conversation from Dixie, and apparently a sensible dialogue with restive union people.

One thing to consider. While more and more RJs does obviously prevent upgrades - a seat on US's new Embraer 170's, flown on more and more routes, is substantially more comfortable than a coach seat on any other plane used for domestic service, especially US's beat up old 737's. So while it's not first class, for all those flights that you could not upgrade - you're far better off on an E170. Now CRJ's and ERJ's are a whole other story....

Well, that's pretty subjective.

I'll take a seat on the Airbus any day of the week. I think you lose half-inch of width and maybe pitch, but I don't see seat power on the -170s, nor do I see a "real" overhead that will take rollys wheel's first, nor do I see an exit row (which, when I sit in coach, I always see).

Does it beat the 737s? Hands down. Does it beat the Airbus? Methinks not.

Well, that's pretty subjective.

I'll take a seat on the Airbus any day of the week. I think you lose half-inch of width and maybe pitch, but I don't see seat power on the -170s, nor do I see a "real" overhead that will take rollys wheel's first, nor do I see an exit row (which, when I sit in coach, I always see).

Does it beat the 737s? Hands down. Does it beat the Airbus? Methinks not.

Definitly subjective. Here's my take on the Airbus though. Being about 5'9" I find that the upper seat protrusion is quite obnoxious (better than the 737 seat) but still uncomfortable. The E170 doesn't have the protusion. Definite agreement on the lack of power, smaller overheads (but as a preferred, getting on first, it's never a problem) and no exit rows. However, pitch and width are very slightly better than the Airbus. But again - it's all subjective.

The E170 is a glorified commuter plane. Use of these on major routes creates a different product. What I continually find interesting is that the vaunted LCC's, which the majors now blame for all their problems, almost never use such aircraft.

The E170 is a glorified commuter plane. Use of these on major routes creates a different product. What I continually find interesting is that the vaunted LCC's, which the majors now blame for all their problems, almost never use such aircraft.

JetBlue has many of those on order - slated for delivery in 2005, I think.

I've been on those - they are amazing, and you do not feel like you're in an RJ.

JBlu has ordered them, but they have a different problem. They're running out of big places to go, so they need to go into smaller markets for growth. That's my point. I doubt you'll see 1000 mile stage lengths on that equipment over there. These guys would fly them to Europe if they could.

The E170 is a glorified commuter plane. Use of these on major routes creates a different product. What I continually find interesting is that the vaunted LCC's, which the majors now blame for all their problems, almost never use such aircraft.

We are indeed reaching the point where the RJ infestation on the majors is getting so bad that on more and more routes, the majors are flying RJ's and the LCC's are flying full size planes. And for me, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back on loyalty to the majors--when it's an RJ against a 737 I no longer care who's flying the RJ--I'm on the 737.

The LCCs have not used RJs because they have not chosen to fly routes that cannot support full mainline aircraft.

US could drop all the markets that can't fill an Airbus or 737/757, but then they'd be a much smaller airline, and probably in even worse shape.

Many of the majors, US in particular, use these planes in an attempt to configure their business to their costs, having failed to lower those. They will tell you all sorts of things about why they have them, but the real reason is they pay the people who fly them a lot less. That isn't an issue for the LCC's.

JetBlue has many of those on order - slated for delivery in 2005, I think.

I've been on those - they are amazing, and you do not feel like you're in an RJ.

Isn't JetBlue ordering the E190? I think that they are the launch customer for this aircraft. Maybe I'm wrong?

Isn't JetBlue ordering the E190? I think that they are the launch customer for this aircraft. Maybe I'm wrong?

You are correct. The E-190. The reason is that the fuel burn is less than an Airbus 318, which is what B6 would have taken if all other things were equal.

How many Airbus' are in the US fleet?

Are all the A319's going? I'm assuming this means quite a bit of shuffling around of aircraft on the existing route structure (or will they just put in more frequent RJ flights?).

Too bad. I liked the new Airbus aircraft. Since US doesn't have the 777, reconfigured the 757's, the 767's look like they are from a bad movie, and the 737 are pretty old too - I would prefer they dumped these older boeing aircraft for the 319, 320, 321, 330, etc...., but I understand GE's point - they can release these newer aircraft.

You do what you've got to do.

How many Airbus' are in the US fleet?

According to their factsheets (http://www.usairways.com/about/corporate/profile/factsheets/index.htm),
they have 9 A330s, 28 A321s, 24 A320s, and 66 A319s.

According to their factsheets (http://www.usairways.com/about/corporate/profile/factsheets/index.htm),
they have 9 A330s, 28 A321s, 24 A320s, and 66 A319s.

Therefore the 15 of the 66 A319's are not nearly the entire fleat. Not to mention - in coach I would take an E170 over a B737 or A319 any day. Granted no upgrades - big negative. But whatever keeps this airline in the air. Not to mention - should things turn around - US can buy planes in the future. Let's just get past January and hope that all the RJ's will be E70s and not CRJ's or E145's.