We are debating whether to fly 1st or business on BA from SFO to the Maldives. Is there a huge difference? Is it worth the extra miles to go for 1st? How much lead time do I need to book these flights on BA with miles? We have never flown BA at all, so any feedback would be great. We have flown business on Swiss, AA, and Air France to Europe- is it similar to these? Thanks in advance.

First is better http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

How are you planning to complete the trip? Were you thinking of flying EK on the DXB-MLE sector?

It might be worth checking out where else EK will be flying from by the time you make the trip - they have an amazing F product on the new A340's, which I believe will be flying NYC-DXB at some point this year... The West coast has been discussed, but don't think there's anything firm yet.

F v. J, to me = staying in a de luxe hotel and having a good standard room (J) or a suite (F), or getting to the aiport in a taxi (J) or a limo (F). They are both as pleasant an experience as flying can get, and infintely superior to economy (3* hotel and public transport), but there is an indefinable sense of well being which one gets in F which is not the same in J.

That said, all the responses you will get here are from people who have flown both. If you have never flown either, J will seem wonderful and you won't have that sense that you are missing something better.

Comfort wise the flat beds are better in F, but if you sleeep reasonably well on a plane it wont make a whole lot of difference. If you dont, it wont either. I have been kept awake by people snoring in both ...

Is it worth the miles ? Well, it depends how many you have and what else you can use them for. As to availability, log in and check online. You will see what the situation is.

I flew F to Sydney in December and with hindsight I would have been equally happy with J (on the upper deck).

For me, the main benefits of F over J, apart from slighlty extra space is being able to start and stop the movies (in F you have a built-in VCR) and in J they are on an on-going loop. The food was notihng to get excited about and I tend not to drink (alcohol) on planes.

The cabin crew are a bit "over-attentive" in F, which I assume some people like. You also get to wear BA FIRST pyjamas, where in J you'll have to bring your own.

If you havent done Club World with the flat beds you may be surprised, something to bear in mind is your size http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif The seat in J is 6ft when flat, and in F 6ft 6ins. I'm a 5ft 11in rake but like to almost jam myself in the J seat, last time I was in F I was still growing but felt a lot more like an 'expanse'. Ok so I'm talking gibberish now http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif

Personally unless some cracking deal comes round for F I am quite happy with J, in the old days with the cradle seat there may have been more debate

If you are doing a return trip then why not try both? I'm sure you can still do that.

S.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Frequentflyer99:
I have been kept awake by people snoring in both ...</font>Phew! I thought I might be the only culprit.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B Watson:
First is better http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I've previously only flown J but last week I got the chance to try F. I thought it was great, the crews both ways were absolutely superb, having access to the Concorde rooms at both Heathrow and JFK was a good step-up from the Terraces. If you have the miles go First.

Ba New Club World is great and you will be very happy flying in this cabin . However my advice to anyone would be that if they ever get the chance to try First then take it. You may then decide that in your opinion it is not worth the extra miles / cash but at least you would have done in.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by spellbound2:
We have flown business on Swiss, AA, and Air France to Europe- is it similar to these? Thanks in advance.</font>

BA J is vastly superior to these offerings (especially on the night flights) and you wont be disapointed. F is better still...

For any journey over about 7 or 8 hours, you need First if you can.

Book EARLY with miles to avoid disappointment.

Enjoy

Honestly, BA NCW is a great product as it is. I have only flown the front cabin 3 times, and IMHO it is only worth a (very) small premium over NCW. And that is me being 6´5" tall.

All the things said above, like even better lounge access, better booze and more attentative personnel don´t appeal too much to me, as I try not to spend more time in the airport than required, don´t drink anyhow and am quite happy if I can rest or sleep during the flight. The only thing really nice is the longer and more spacious seat, but again, the value for money needs to be right. Whatever the currency (miles/money), NCW seems to be the better value, unless you have a large excess of either and don´t really care, in which case you wouldn´t have started the thread.

This thread came along at a good time as I was wondering the same myself!

Anyway, my question now is, if a couple are travelling (rather than one person on their own) is there any particular configuration that is better than another.

To me NCW on the upper deck of a 747 looks like the best if there's two of you. For one thing, if you go First instead you will not be near a window.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by wirefree:
. . .Anyway, my question now is, if a couple are travelling (rather than one person on their own) is there any particular configuration that is better than another. . .</font>

This would depend upon whether you wanted to sit next to your partner. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Either way, you can be accommodated. In F, there are two or three rows (747 vs. 777) of seats in the center which are side-by-side and good for couples. No window, though, and you lose a considerable amount of surrounding space that comes with the window seats.

In J, you can face one another. Here again, depends upon the degree to which you want to look at partner's face over the 10+ hours. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif You can do this on the lower deck by the windows, but the upper deck on the 747 is the best. Lower deck center seats in J are the least desirable, in my opinion.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AZ Travels the World:
Lower deck center seats in J are the least desirable, in my opinion.</font>

All you have to say now is '777' and the word 'baby' and you'll have me running at the open third floor window http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I've been trying to find out how many miles I'd need to get there with first v. business. I guess I'm not too good with their website, but I can't seem to locate how many miles in each class from SFO. Maybe we should try business first so I don't get too spoiled. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Plus, the amount of miles should be considerably more. It looks like the best times to go are April/May or September/October, so I better try to figure out the dates very soon. I'm only 5'4" and 107 lbs. so I don't need a ton of room, but my husband may appreciate more space since he's 5'11" and 180. Lots to consider.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by spellbound2:
Maybe we should try business first so I don't get too spoiled. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>

BA don't offer a Business First product &lt;smartass smilie&gt;

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AZ Travels the World:
Lower deck center seats in J are the least desirable, in my opinion.</font>But aren't they the J seats that best facilitate PDAs? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

(Public Displays of Affection)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by spellbound2:
I've been trying to find out how many miles I'd need to get there with first v. business. I guess I'm not too good with their website, but I can't seem to locate how many miles in each class from SFO. Maybe we should try business first so I don't get too spoiled. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Plus, the amount of miles should be considerably more. It looks like the best times to go are April/May or September/October, so I better try to figure out the dates very soon. I'm only 5'4" and 107 lbs. so I don't need a ton of room, but my husband may appreciate more space since he's 5'11" and 180. Lots to consider.</font>

2x the economy mileage for business. (North America to London/Europe1 is 100K miles.)

3x the economy mileage for first. (North America to London/Europe1 is 150K miles.)

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dnw:
BA J is vastly superior to these offerings (especially on the night flights) and you wont be disapointed. F is better still...</font>

I couldnt agree more! Comparing AF or Swiss business with BA's NCW is like comparing Dolly Parton with Claudia Schiffer...(no offense to DP fans http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif) Can't say I have had the pleasure of AA business but from what I have heard from my global IT architect friend who is forced to use it weekly, it scores somewhere between Parton and Barbara Windsor. Go figure! as they say.
Oh and F is Sophia Loren (-30 years or so) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by philco (edited Mar 08, 2004).]

Since you have never flown BA before, go business one-way and first the other. You can get separate one-way awards that allow you to do this.

Best way to sample both products on one return trip.

I hate to be a snob, but I honestly haven't flown ncw since before the flat beds so cannot really compare the two.

[This message has been edited by bagold (edited Mar 08, 2004).]

FIRST.

------------------
'Kai Tak heart attack?'

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FF_Bello:
Whatever the currency (miles/money), NCW seems to be the better value, unless you have a large excess of either and don´t really care, in which case you wouldn´t have started the thread. </font>

Agreed!

Seriously, who in their right mind wouldn't favor flying FIRST ... ?

The point here is that if resources aren't unlimited you have to be make choices in life:

Fact: With 300k miles you can do 2 rtn trips in F or as many as 3 in J. That's one extra rtn transatlantic business class journey free! So what's your preference?

The NCW is such a great product (over the old CW) that it is one of the partial reasons why BA is withdrawing F on a number of its routes! With the improvements introduced by NCW, the difference in service hardly justifies the delta in terms of cost or miles.

(that is assuming you are already BA EC G or P and lounge access is not an issue or else simply not a priority)

And yet I repeat: I would fly FIRST over NCW anytime !!! (if cost and/or miles are irrelevant that is!)

Fly Virgins new Upper class suite you will get first class seats at a Business class fare.

New upper class suite now flying from SFO to LHR.

Best Lounges at SFO and LHR, Pyjamas in Upper class, LIMO both ends of journey. The biggese flat bed in business class. Inflight massages from Inflight beauty thearpist!!!

Not tired go and sit at the bar have a drink, read the papers and have a drink!!!

Oh yeah or you can sit at your seat with V-Port. ON demand IFE in ALL classes. 50 movies. 150 tv channels, music albums, games play from seat to seat.

I knw where i would go!!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mpeters:
Fly Virgins new Upper class suite you will get first class seats at a Business class fare.</font>

mpeters do you work for VS? you certainly seem to talk the same .......

The UC Suite is an excellent BUSINESS Class product. It is not, nor will it ever be, comparable to BA First.

Please stop hijacking threads that have nothing to do with VS in order to spin your companies marketing spiel. This is the second in as many days...

[This message has been edited by dnw (edited Mar 12, 2004).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FF_Bello:
Honestly, BA NCW is a great product as it is. I have only flown the front cabin 3 times, and IMHO it is only worth a (very) small premium over NCW. And that is me being 6´5" tall.</font>

That's why it's different strokes for different folks.

I think the food is pretty good...If you like to eat and drink on board, you'll appreciate it.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dnw:
mpeters do you work for VS? you certainly seem to talk the same .......

The UC Suite is an excellent BUSINESS Class product. It is not, nor will it ever be, comparable to BA First.

Please stop hijacking threads that have nothing to do with VS in order to spin your companies marketing spiel. This is the second in as many days...
</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif I agree with dnw here, was this thread inviting someone to spout crap about VS? NO.

&lt;edited at advice of a higher, potentially more intelligent being http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif&gt;

[This message has been edited by fbgdavidson (edited Mar 12, 2004).]

Great, my first time to post ex pub in a long time……


mpeters what a load of b0olacks

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Fly Virgins new Upper class suite you will get first class seats at a Business class fare. </font>
How does a cabin of 30+ compare to a cabin of 13? The crew to pax rate is wrong. The noise level is wrong. The service is wrong….. Pay some money and TRY BA,SQ,CA,QA and try FIRST no J/F product is the same.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">New upper class suite now flying from SFO to LHR. </font>
If the ac is ready and doesn’t go teach….. Oh no VS doesn’t have enough ac to cover such ....
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Best Lounges at SFO and LHR, Pyjamas in Upper class, LIMO both ends of journey. The biggese flat bed in business class. Inflight massages from Inflight beauty thearpist!!! </font> OK you got me on the PJ’s for J but we do have them for Y. Yep the biggest bed but hey I am watching a movie, I am tired so I will recline, I need to sleep…. BA just recline more! VS oh fukc get up and turn the dam thing over. To me this ex. A 1 bed flat to a studio with a sofa bed! As for the therapist you should say only if she is onboard and not fully booked in which case it is a lottery. Do the pax that don’t get it get a refund??
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Not tired go and sit at the bar have a drink, read the papers and have a drink!!! </font> Or sit reclined at any angle with a paper and get a drink served to your comfortable arm chair…
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Oh yeah or you can sit at your seat with V-Port. ON demand IFE in ALL classes. 50 movies. 150 tv channels, music albums, games play from seat to seat. </font> Well as we are not talking about all classes for a start this is screwed and when I live in a county with 5 tv stations 18 on an ac + 40 vids and Krug makes me happy
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">I knw where i would go!!! </font> I am not surprised as you get employee disount.

Bugger me that was hard work. Good night…

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CT-UK:

Bugger me that was hard work. Good night…
</font>

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Splendid work! Good to see VS proponents are given short shrift by this board! Heh! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

Having just returned home after a few too many cocktails, I will not even attempt to match Christian's multi quote epic response. But I second ever word.

Its all about expectations and errr budget. If you have the means to sustain all future travel in First then go for it, do not pass go, do not collect $200. After raising the ante, you'll find it painful going back.

Greg,
(ex. EDI) Getting accustomed to last orders at 11pm - like I said, its painful going back http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

dup

[This message has been edited by GregM (edited Mar 12, 2004).]

Thanks CT-UK! Saved me all the work! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

mpeters, if you know where you would go, then just go and don't bother us.

ok, now hopefully you won't think I'm too much of a peon, but I can only fly either because I can transfer enough Starpoints. Since I LOVE my Starpoints and some of the wonderful places I can stay with points, I just wanted to know if it would be worth the extra points for First or if business was just as wonderful an experience. If $ or points were no object, I would most definitely enjoy first and all the luxury it offers. Sure wish I could land me one of them thar fancy jobs to "try out" all carriers and classes of service. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by spellbound2 (edited Mar 12, 2004).]

Greg,
(ex. EDI) Getting accustomed to last orders at 11pm - like I said, its painful going back

I know about THAT! You know who the Americans are in English pubs for the first time when "last orders please" rings out and they don't know what it means. That's when you see the fastest drinkers West of Moscow!!!!!!

------------------
'Kai Tak heart attack?'

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by spellbound2:
ok, now hopefully you won't think I'm too much of a peon, but I can only fly either because I can transfer enough Starpoints. Since I LOVE my Starpoints and some of the wonderful places I can stay with points, I just wanted to know if it would be worth the extra points for First or if business was just as wonderful an experience. If $ or points were no object, I would most definitely enjoy first and all the luxury it offers. Sure wish I could land me one of them thar fancy jobs to "try out" all carriers and classes of service. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by spellbound2 (edited Mar 12, 2004).]</font>

As some have suggested, fly business in one direction and first in the other, and you'll have the basis to form your own opionion. I'd fly first on the overnight flight on business on the daytime return.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by nologic:
I'd fly first on the overnight flight on business on the daytime return.
</font>

Oddly I'd choose the reverse. NCW is fine for sleeping but BA's First is even worth staying awake for.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by spellbound2:
ok, now hopefully you won't think I'm too much of a peon, but I can only fly either because I can transfer enough Starpoints. Since I LOVE my Starpoints and some of the wonderful places I can stay with points, I just wanted to know if it would be worth the extra points for First or if business was just as wonderful an experience. If $ or points were no object, I would most definitely enjoy first and all the luxury it offers. </font>

I'm having the same dilemma as to whether I should transfer enough Starpoints for BA First or NCW. Starpoints are very valuable to me because of their ability to be transferred to some 20+ airlines at a momemts notice.

I already flew BA First last July and will again this May using exisiting BA points. I thought I'd transfer enough Starpoints to try out NCW, but I am concerned about award availability for NCW as compared to First. Doing a few spot checks on BA's website, First seems to be wide open for availability, whereas NCW availability appears to be much more limited.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GregM:
After raising the ante, you'll find it painful going back.

</font>

How very true. Having recently flown LAX-AKL-LAX in NZ F, I can attest to Greg's comment. We have typically flown in J, decided to spoil ourselves and fly F. It made J seem like Y.

To help spellbound, it all depends on the number of points you have, and how you vlaue them. If you have oodles of points, then blow your brains out on F, if not you will be very happy with BA J service and comfort.