I am doing a trip to St petersberg - and was wondering on the options to go to Moscow. Is there a good land option - any body has experience with it?

There is an express train (named smth like 'red arrow') that normally departs close to midnight and get to moscow by 8 am. There are actually quite a few of them every day going back and forth mostly overnight.
Check this site:

http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/Timetables/MoscowPetersburg.html


I am doing a trip to St petersberg - and was wondering on the options to go to Moscow. Is there a good land option - any body has experience with it?

Everybody takes the train - the night one or the new express (R-200; 4 1/2 hours). The R-200's run about two or three times a day, all the night trains depart StPete around midnight and arrive in Moscow early in the morning.

I have taken the "fast" train from Moscow to Sankt Peterburg several times. As I recall it leaves Moscow at somewhere around 18:00 and arrives SP somewhere around 22:30. I believe there is a similiar "fast" train that leaves SP @ 18:00 and arrives Moscow 22:30, although I have not taken this one.
This train cuises at speeds of 200 km/hr on the open road.
When one considers the city center to city center locations of the train stations it is more convenient than flying in most cases. Given the added expense of taxi's to and from airports and added time for security and so on, I believe that one saves not much time by flying this one hour route. Also, it is a nice experience to take the train.
As mentioned I am not certain that the "fast" train goes from SP-Moscow, but know it does from Moscow-SP. As I recall some Russian friends menitoned to me that the "fast" leaves SP and arrive Moscow at or near the same time schedule and the mentioned "fast" train from Moscow to SP.
Perhaps someone can confirm this for you. Also, as mentioned, there are several other trains schedules between SP-MOS.

There is an express train (named smth like 'red arrow') that normally departs close to midnight and get to moscow by 8 am. There are actually quite a few of them every day going back and forth mostly overnight.
Check this site:

http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/Timetables/MoscowPetersburg.html

This is a great site. The trains are inexpensive and very popular. We got tichets 3 days in advance, and The Red arrow and three others were sold out in first class the night we wanted to travel. We had the hotel get the tickets. They charged a $3 or 5 fee.

We had to rent bedsheets when we got on the train. The cars may have been pre or early post war. They were extremely ornate.

The ride was extremely rough. I would try to get on one of those trains recommended for comfort.

I enjoyed the trip so much, and the tickets are so cheap, next time we go to russia, I told my wife I do not want to rent a hotel room, we'll just commute back and forth on the night trains.

The fast trains also run on certain days in the afternoon. The overnight trains can be hot, crowded etc. and the fast train gets you there in a hurry. A great time saver.

Thanks you all for excellent info

anyone take the boat/cruise between the two cities?

anyone take the boat/cruise between the two cities?

I did (about 15 years ago). If you have time this could be an interesting option. The cruise we were on passed through the Valaam island monastery, we got into a storm in the Ladoga Lake, etc. It took about a week, IIRC

There is an express train (named smth like 'red arrow') that normally departs close to midnight and get to moscow by 8 am. There are actually quite a few of them every day going back and forth mostly overnight.
Check this site:

http://www.waytorussia.net/Transport/Timetables/MoscowPetersburg.html


8 hours isnt too much express in my book
i have been looking and dont see much of the day i want to travel between those 2 cities

ideally i'd like an afternoon train to at least give me a glimpse of russia beyong st petes and moscow

but i did find some $82 1 way fares

as low as $55 if you are a bit more flexible

I've flown on the ukrainian airlines between dnep - kiev and odessa-kiev so i cant imagine them being much worse/older

8 hours isnt too much express in my book
i have been looking and dont see much of the day i want to travel between those 2 cities

ideally i'd like an afternoon train to at least give me a glimpse of russia beyong st petes and moscow

but i did find some $82 1 way fares

as low as $55 if you are a bit more flexible

I've flown on the ukrainian airlines between dnep - kiev and odessa-kiev so i cant imagine them being much worse/older

We're talking 650+ km here, so even 8 hours is acceptable. If you take the fast afternoon R-200 (4 1/2 hrs) you still loose a better part of the day and the views are nothing special. So take the night train and then take a day trip out of Moscow to get your glimpse of the country. There are dozens of old cities/monasteries outside of the capital. The closest would be Sergiyev Posad aka the Russian Vatican, the spiritual centre of the Russian Orthodox Church, about 1 hr by train. Otherwise, travel 180 km North of Moscow to Rostov Veliky, an earlier capital situated by a nice lake and boasting an absolutely fairy-tale-like Kremlin and no tourists even in the high season.

ideally i'd like an afternoon train to at least give me a glimpse of russia beyong st petes and moscow


I believe Train 159A leaves St Petersberg at 16:00 and reaches Moscow at 21:21 - which may fit what you are looking for - here is a URL where I found this info

http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportation/Train/default.asp

The day trains are usually safer than the night trains. Yunost' (Youth) and Avrora (Aurora) are the trains leaving in the afternoon.

What do you mean safer?

What do you mean safer?

Less likely to get robbed (or more awake to be able to do something about it!)

Has it ever happened to you or anyone you know?
I travel the route about monthly (my gf is originally from StPete so we go often to see her family or friends) and a lot of people here at the office are from StPete and go home every weekend - and nothing's ever gone wrong to me nor to anyone I know.

It's been a while since I lived in St. P, but the overnight trains used to be notorious for thieves targetting tourists. The conductors (provodniki) were known to occasionally sell the emergency keys to criminals and tell them where the foreign tourists were sleeping. I'm certainly not suggesting that crime was ubiquitous and I'd be happy to hear that things had got better recently.

I'm certainly not suggesting that crime was ubiquitous and I'd be happy to hear that things had got better recently.

Well, they have
And there's this funny contraption that lets you close the door from the inside which is now ubiquitous on the night train?. Well, the only train I us? - the one that leaves Moscow at 0:43 - always has it in their first class cars.

I believe Train 159A leaves St Petersberg at 16:00 and reaches Moscow at 21:21 - which may fit what you are looking for - here is a URL where I found this info

http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportation/Train/default.asp

thanx
i start my journey at 6:25 tonight
will take that fast train on sept 1

I have only taken this trip once LED-MOW on a night train.

I brought a bicycle chain lock, and toilet paper.

We had to buy sheets for our first class cabin. Cost under a dollar US.

The door to the cabin had a huge(3" x 18" chrome plated) latch on the inside on a thick door. It would have held off a Mongol horde. No key.

The toilet paper came in handy.

I think we were supposed to get tea in the morning, but did not.

Recently came across this site re: Saint Petersburg-Moscow Train Timetables and Schedules. Hope it maybe helpful. It also has a few pictures ot the interior of the trains, as good as they are, or are not. http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportation/Train/default.asp

i took the 4pm fast train last wednesday afternoon

i went with a russian speaking friend and the price was 1258 roubles
without food
about $44
for business class

now here is the russian system

there are 3 classes
first
business
coach

i was late to the station and literally boarded the train as it was pulling out

i showed my ticket and they told me to walk to the front of the train
i first walked thru the coach class
4 to a room
with seats that convert to beds

i then walked to first class
and i was stopped

the ticket taker took a look at my ticket and said
i could keep walking towards the front of the train for the business class
or for 500 roubles i could sit in first class
which is like aircraft seating

so i sat in first class
i didnt ask for a reciept
as i'm sure the 500 was split between the women working that section

so the best deal may be to buy the cheapest 4 to a room coach ticket
and then upgrade with the people on the train

We made the journey a few weeks ago, overnight from St Pete to Moscow, and afternoon coming back.

The cars, and locomotives, are fairly new, say 1980s (not much rolling stock has been built in Russia since Perestroika but the best ones are on this route) but the same design was done for years. They are incredibly robust and run nice and smoothly, even the ones taken along at 200 km/h (125 mph) on the Aurora express. Some of the special cars, eg the restaurant cars, were built in the German Democratic Republic. All the Soviet passenger train electric locomotives were built in Czechoslovakia by Skoda, there have been no new ones since socialism fell apart. But they seem to know about good maintenance, and they are kept nice and clean.

The overnight train is fun. If there are two of you it is cheaper to reserve a compartment for 4 (this is the standard size) just for yourself than have one of the "first class" ones for two. However you need a Russian speaker to explain this sort of non-standard requirement to the ticket office. There is tea served by the attendant from an elaborate old samovar tea maker at the end of the car (in lovely elaborate glasses with "silver" holders), and bedding is provided that you have to make up yourself. Both of these services are optional and charged for (a small amount) so if you don't get them you have probably been misunderstood.

The Russians are still concerned about security in the trains. The lower beds lift up and you can put your luggage, money, watch etc under there and no one will be able to get it while you are sleeping. Violent theft is unknown but petty theft still happens on the train. Do not leave your luggage unattended when going to the restaurant car.

There is a nice restaurant car in the middle of each train, day and night, expensive for Russia but cheap by Western standards. Beautiful decoration, little lamps on the tables, mixed staff, most menu items (apart from the alcohol) not available. We were amused the at 01.00 in the morning all the car attendants suddenly locked their cars, went there, and were served plates of pelmeni, beetroot and potatoes ! They consistently have no cream for the coffee. However, when ordering a fruit dish, and (reluctantly) black coffee, the fruit came with a whole heap of cream on it. But "we have no cream for the coffee". Some Soviet traditions of service die hard.

A railway engineer would be impressed by the immaculate standard of the track and the large amount of very up-to-date track maintenance vehicles around. Certainly up to German/Swiss standards, and puts US rail track to shame. In contrast the station buildings are mostly shabby, especially the wayside ones, although an effort is obviously made with the main Moscow and St Pete stations.

There are plenty of overnight trains, about 5 - 8 per night each way, all leaving between 10 pm and midnight, and there's not much difference between them. The daytime trains are much more sparse, the Aurora (the high speed afternoon one) only running on certain days. Our one, Saturday afternoon, was 16 cars and all seats taken. They are laid out like US coach trains. Russian railway cars are larger than those in western Europe, and much larger than those in Britain, so there is lots of space. In local city trains the seats are 3 + 3, with a broad aisle.

Toilets are basic, there always seemed to be water leaks from above but there's no real point to flushing it, as underneath you the poo just falls straight onto the tracks you can see rushing by directly underneath ! Glad I'm not a track maintenance worker.

Local trains in Russia are filled with vendors selling all sort of "grey market" goods; cans of drink, magazines, foods, fruits, ice creams taken on in big insulated boxes, drawing office supplies .... you must think I have made that last one up, but it's true, it happened on a suburban train from St Petersburg to Pushkin. I couldn't believe it. All vendors are incredibly polite and will not hassle you, they all start with a little speech from the back, then make their way up. Then gypsy children will come on with an accordian and play Georgian music and dance up and down the car. But you get none of this on the express trains, although there are some vendors of these things come to the doors at the intermediate stops.

There's not much to see on the trip, a good reason for taking the overnight train. The countryside is flat throughout, hardly a hill, several big rivers, mostly forest with a bit of farming. Apart from the river bridges it must have been easy country to build the railway through. Tradition has it that the Czar at the time put his sword on the map, ran a pencil along it, and said "that is the route". There are one or two significant bends which tradition then says are where the Czar's fingers were holding the sword ! There are few towns along the way. Tvir is probably the largest (infamous as the centre of the Soviet ICBM network, though you see nothing of any militaru installations from the train). The railway is busy by day, and even busier by night when trains pass going the other way every few minutes. For both passenger and freight it is the only mass market long distance option in Russia.

On departure, instead of the blowing of whistles in Britain, or the "all aboard" calls of the USA, martial music is played loudly over the station PA from 1 minute before departure until the train pulls out. The timekeeping was immaculate. Our train left St Pete at 11 pm and was due in Moscow at 7 am. Both times were maintained to the second ! Likewise the return on the Aurora. It puts the railways of Britain to shame.

On departure, instead of the blowing of whistles in Britain, or the "all aboard" calls of the USA, martial music is played loudly over the station PA from 1 minute before departure until the train pulls out.

So you took the Red Arrow, the only train that is greeted on arrival and departure by ''Hymn to the great city" (don't remember the composer, but it's not martial music anyway). Although word is they're going to extend it to all the night trains

Excellent post, BTW. Thank you

I'm experimenting with the following itinerary:

St. Petersburg
Novgorod
Around Lake Ilmen - military monuments, German graveyards, WW2 fortifications
Staraya Russa - had an excellent war museum, may also be of interest to Dostoyevsky fans
Torzhok - beautiful churches
Staritsa - that's where my dacha is, and horse riding in the hills over the Volga is one of several things I can recommend to experience the "true" Russia
(Alternatively, can travel from Staritsa to Tver by boat or raft)
Rzhev - more military history
Volokolamsk - an example of successful small town
New Jerusalem - a huge monument to Russia declaring itself the center of Christian civilization
Mitino - perhaps the world's largest illegal software market, your chance to get back at Bill Gates
Moscow - you can get to the center via Kutuzovki, a street made for military parades...

Descriptions with pictures is taking shape at

www.russian-horse-rides.com/moscow_to_st-petersburg.htm

What do you think?

Write me to paul_voytinsky@yahoo.com