This could get interesting folks!

http://www.justplanenews.com/news/headlines/93598851.html

Freedom to save

Posted by News Staff - Just Plane News.com on 08/04/2004 at 12:01 AM

Passengers welcome news Independence is coming

TED REED
Charlotte Observer
Staff Writer


Charlotte travelers, long-starved for low-cost flights to the Northeast, are applauding Independence Air's plans to begin Charlotte service.

"You have no idea how happy I am," said frequent flier Tom Buck, Charlotte-based sales director for computer phone technology company Ai-Logix Inc. "I yelled to my wife, `Check this,' " after reading of the airline's plans in Monday's Observer, he said.

Independence Air said it will begin service between Charlotte and its hub at Washington's Dulles International Airport on Oct. 1. It will offer eight daily flights with everyday one-way fares ranging between $59 and $122.

Perhaps more importantly, the airline will offer connecting flights between Dulles and 27 cities including Newark, N.J., Boston, Cleveland and New York. One-way fares to those cities will range between $79 and $199.

ATA, Charlotte's only existing low-fare carrier, says that 75 percent of its Charlotte passengers connect through its Chicago hub to cities in the Midwest and West.

Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, ranked the country's highest-fare airport in the U.S. Transportation Department's most recent survey, will suddenly have low-fare flights on many of its most popular routes.

Buck estimated he would save his company thousands of dollars annually. In addition, he said, he can halt his sometimes arduous efforts to secure lower fares, including frequent drives to Greensboro and occasional Saturday night stays in distant cities -- allowing him to take advantage of low-fare tickets that don't require weekend stays. Independence Air's tickets don't require a weekend stay or a round-trip purchase.

US Airways, the dominant carrier at Charlotte/Douglas, wouldn't say Monday whether it plans to match Independence Air's fares in Charlotte. In other cities where US Airways faces low-fare competition, it has selectively matched the fares.

Independence Air began operating as a low-fare carrier in June. Formerly known as Atlantic Coast Airlines, it was a commuter airline that fed United Airlines and Delta Air Lines flights. But it changed course after United filed for bankruptcy protection.

By October, Independence will have about 300 daily departures from Dulles to 37 cities. It won't sell connecting flights from Charlotte to some Southeast cities.

Independence Air's plans put pressure on US Airways, which carries 90 percent of the passengers at Charlotte/Douglas and which is battling to reduce costs so it can reduce ticket prices.

Charlotte/Douglas is one of the last hub airports where the dominant carrier had so little low-fare competition, said Tom Parsons, chief executive of Bestfares.com. "Now Charlotte consumers will see low fares to the Northeast, where US Airways could charge a premium for everybody," he said.

Parsons said the question of loyalty to US Airways may be an emotional one for local residents. The carrier remains one of the region's top employers, with 5,743 workers.

"If you live in Charlotte, you gotta be rooting for US Airways," he said. "But you gotta be out there rooting for cheap air fares. I don't think you can have both."

US Airways is fighting to survive as low-fare carriers increasingly encroach on its Eastern markets. The nation's seventh-largest carrier says it can largely transform itself into a low-fare airline if it can cut $1.5 billion from its annual costs, including $800 million in labor costs. Talks with its pilots are going well. But the International Association of Machinists, which represents mechanics and fleet service workers, says it won't talk about contract changes. Talks with two other unions are just getting started.

The arrival of Independence in Charlotte "is the same story we've been facing all along," said US Airways spokesman David Castelveter. "Without a cost structure that enables us to meet the threat, we're at a disadvantage."

In Philadelphia, US Airways has reduced fares to 17 cities where it faces low-fare competition from Southwest Airlines and other carriers. In Washington, US Airways has cut prices from Reagan National Airport in order to compete with Independence flights from Dulles. The airports are about 30 miles apart.

The airline will carefully pick its low-fare markets, said Kevin Mitchell, chairman of the Business Travel Coalition. In Philadelphia, Mitchell said, US Airways aggressively advertises low "GoFares," but in markets without competition fares remain high.

"It's not as if they're putting every seat on GoFares," he said. "If you book Philly-Pittsburgh, you run up against the `Gotcha' fares."

Some Charlotte travelers, resentful of the current fare levels, said Independence will get their business in any case.

Mooresville resident Rich Cooper, a consultant to early-stage health care companies, said he will use Independence to get to downtown Washington, flying to Dulles and renting a car. "I will reward Independence for having the courage to start flying here," he said. "I'm not just going to stick with US Airways."

Charlotte resident Tom Myers, an energy consultant for Scott Madden & Associates, said he has driven to Raleigh-Durham for low-fare flights in each of the past four weeks.

"Every cost I incur I pass on to my clients, which makes my clients' bill more, which makes them less inclined to hire me for more stuff," Myers said. "Anything that's good for fares is good for me."

With some envy I've noted the low, low fares, bonus points, etc out of PHL and DCA to compete with the LCCs. Maybe starting this fall, those of us who use CLT frequently may get blessed with similar promotions!

This is a very serious action on the part of a competitor and US is going to have to think carefully how they react. Exact fare matching will surely drain the cash on had very quickly. This probably will give needed pressure to get the unions back to the bargining table. US must reduce cost asap in order to survive. This sucks for the employees but it is the harsh reality of today's environment. However, I don't think this should be focused on pay cuts but rather on productivity improvements.

While US works to improve its cost basis to operate it must simlutaneously ratchet up its marketing campaign to keep the business traveler. They must make it more enjoyable to fly US than Independence or some other competitor. Speaking for myself, here is how I rank airline attributes:

1. Non-Stop service with several flights per day
2. Preferred treatment due to loyalty, i.e. board first/early in process, elite check in line for both agent and kiosk
3 Efficient service at the airport, preferrably with a airline club to get work done or relax before or between flights.
4.Opportunity to upgrade and experience a reasonable FC cabin experience
5. Excellent customer service with logical, rationale approach to the policies of ticketing etc both during regular ops and most importantly during irregular ops.

I consider the above to be the technical attributes of the airline service. With the above being considered I then also given significant weight to the price. If another airline offers non-stop service then I will choose the lower price if the difference is substantial. If US has the only non-stop service I'll choose the higher fare if the difference is not outrageous. If the cost is just a $100 or so, lets say up to $300 I will pick the non-stop. But if the price to go non-stop on US is say $500 more than the nearest competitor and that competitor's schedule works for my calendar then I will choose the lower fare and suck it up in coach.

US may have a ray of hope and Independence may have one huge thing against them. To my knowledge they are not part of SABRE or other airline reservation system allowing travel agents to sell their tickets. With this limitaton Independence does not show up in my corporate travel agent system so I CANNOT fly I. My company has a very defined, tightly controlled policy on airline travel by employees. The system is loaded with controls to encourage flying the lowest logical airfare. If Independence were in the system then I would probably be flying I already. But not because in order to fly I you must either book on their website or call them direclty. If I were to book a trip on FlyI my employer would not reimburse my airline ticket because I booked oustide of the corp travel agency. A big no-no for us.

US needs to improve the travel experience for the business traveler who fly EVERY WEEK - LIKE ME so they I want to continue flying US. I, like many on the board these days, are strongly considering switching to NW. I have a work colleague who, as I, is a CP - we both have been for many years. This year he switched to NW because of several things US has done with service to his home airport, SDF. He keeps telling me how much he liks NW, ALWAYS sits up front and pays decent fares. Plus can fly DL or CO and accrue status on NW. The clubs of NW, CO, and DL are nicer than US so that's another plus.

There's a lot US can learn from those attending RF on Sat. The question is do they want to know and will they be listening????

iair is great news for U flyers!!!! U will be forced to match the fares, and passengers will save a fortune! Maybe U will even be forced to bring GOFARES to Charlotte. LOL!

wow...this should have been expected by U, but man...bye bye monopoly..I for one am sick and tired of paying close to $300 for a NYC-CLT flight. Id like to see some $79 each way "GO FARES"...but if that happens, I think U is GOING quickly into liquidation....

US and UA are matching the promo WAS-CLT fares. (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343337)

wow...this should have been expected by U, but man...bye bye monopoly..I for one am sick and tired of paying close to $300 for a NYC-CLT flight. Id like to see some $79 each way "GO FARES"...but if that happens, I think U is GOING quickly into liquidation....

No offense intended, but $300 to get on an airplane sounds very reasonable to me. I would have no problem paying that fare for every single flight, personal or business, any time any where.

No offense intended, but $300 to get on an airplane sounds very reasonable to me. I would have no problem paying that fare for every single flight, personal or business, any time any where.


I second that!

I second that!


God bless you both then! I have a serious problem paying $300 for a 1 hr flight w/ bare bones service/zero IFE/ and frequent headaches thanks to LGA. And that is usuallu when I buy way in advance. Most likely a LGA-CLT flight costs me closer to $400. Considering Flyi just started $69 each way JFK/EWR-CLT runs, I'd glady pay half (or less) and connect once and deal w/ the bare bones service. U could matc

I can't support an airline that gauges me on one 1 hr route and then charges <$250 RT to pretty much any other destination on their route map esp to the West Coast.

Maybe my thinking would be different but Im a 100% leisure traveler and its my moolah. Im not a cheapskate either as I'll pay $300-$400 for a comfortable flight on B6 to Vegas anytime. Just dont like what U is doing here, and frankly my travels w/ them have become few and far between of late.

US may have a ray of hope and Independence may have one huge thing against them. To my knowledge they are not part of SABRE or other airline reservation system allowing travel agents to sell their tickets. With this limitaton Independence does not show up in my corporate travel agent system so I CANNOT fly I. My company has a very defined, tightly controlled policy on airline travel by employees. The system is loaded with controls to encourage flying the lowest logical airfare. If Independence were in the system then I would probably be flying I already. But not because in order to fly I you must either book on their website or call them direclty. If I were to book a trip on FlyI my employer would not reimburse my airline ticket because I booked oustide of the corp travel agency. A big no-no for us.


You're correct, right now DH is not a part of any CRS. However, that can change quickly and easily. Unless you see FlyI printing money, I would expect them to expand their fare distribution.

God bless you both then! I have a serious problem paying $300 for a 1 hr flight w/ bare bones service/zero IFE/ and frequent headaches thanks to LGA. And that is usuallu when I buy way in advance. Most likely a LGA-CLT flight costs me closer to $400. Considering Flyi just started $69 each way JFK/EWR-CLT runs, I'd glady pay half (or less) and connect once and deal w/ the bare bones service. U could matc

I can't support an airline that gauges me on one 1 hr route and then charges <$250 RT to pretty much any other destination on their route map esp to the West Coast.

Maybe my thinking would be different but Im a 100% leisure traveler and its my moolah. Im not a cheapskate either as I'll pay $300-$400 for a comfortable flight on B6 to Vegas anytime. Just dont like what U is doing here, and frankly my travels w/ them have become few and far between of late.

This may force US to up the ante on these flights, maybe bring back some IFE (yes, I know Jet Blue is far ahead and even UAL offers Channel9). CLT is rarely a destinantion for me, usually just a connection, but it is amazing that it can cost $400 LGA-CLT, and only $350 LGA-CLT-CHS.

CLT is rarely a destinantion for me, usually just a connection, but it is amazing that it can cost $400 LGA-CLT, and only $350 LGA-CLT-CHS.

LOL!! reminds me of a year or so ago when it was ~$400 for RDU-PHL-CDG, but over $1000 for RDU-PHL. Unfortunately my manager wouldn't approve it even after I showed them how a short trip to Paris would save our client a lot of money...

LOL!! reminds me of a year or so ago when it was ~$400 for RDU-PHL-CDG, but over $1000 for RDU-PHL. Unfortunately my manager wouldn't approve it even after I showed them how a short trip to Paris would save our client a lot of money...

Thanks for that great story. Amazing how a last minute trip from RDU-PHL has suddenly dropped from $1000 to $100!!!

Come on CLT triple miles!!!

Come on CLT triple miles!!!
Huh? How??

I have been making a killing on the Go Fares out of DCA lately.

I'm encouraging triple miles. Not announcing them. ;)

Imagine an airline with CASM twice as high as US. Imagine an airline whose fleet is 100% CRJs--those extra-comfortable lawn darts with turbofans on them. Imagine an airline who has little if any pricing power with 50% load factors on a good day. Imagine an airline that was passing out raises to its pilots to bloat its costs so Mesa could not swallow them. . .

This airline is Indepedence Air. They will land in Chapter 7 like a flying brick.

I'm now on board. I'm going to fly IAir all over the place, every chance I get, even when I don't need to fly. Then, after years of slaving and cramming into regional jets and getting delayed in DC and NY, I am going to take my miles and get me a trip to..........DC or NY. Nothing like getting $180 in value for my miles.

No offense intended, but $300 to get on an airplane sounds very reasonable to me. I would have no problem paying that fare for every single flight, personal or business, any time any where.

dingo - you are absolutely correct. That's a reasonable price for such a distance and considering the costs for a safe passage I think people should get a grip when they think they should only have to pay $80 bucks to fly each way. If you think about all the things US provides then $300 is quite a good deal.

Of course I'm a business traveler and view it from an economic and captialist perspective.

Imagine an airline with CASM twice as high as US. Imagine an airline whose fleet is 100% CRJs--those extra-comfortable lawn darts with turbofans on them. Imagine an airline who has little if any pricing power with 50% load factors on a good day. Imagine an airline that was passing out raises to its pilots to bloat its costs so Mesa could not swallow them. . .

This airline is Indepedence Air. They will land in Chapter 7 like a flying brick.


I almost fell off my chair laughing reading this. Thanks for the laugh.
It can get a little disheartening sitting in an office 1 mile from CHS and seeing several Flyi jets on their approach. but it's always nice to return to DCA and see US metal all around.

Imagine an airline with CASM twice as high as US. Imagine an airline whose fleet is 100% CRJs--those extra-comfortable lawn darts with turbofans on them. Imagine an airline who has little if any pricing power with 50% load factors on a good day. Imagine an airline that was passing out raises to its pilots to bloat its costs so Mesa could not swallow them. . .

This airline is Indepedence Air. They will land in Chapter 7 like a flying brick.



You very well may be right---but I think my view probably reflect a good % of the general public who flies 4-5 times a year. I have a college buddy in CLT and Im very sick of paying that obscene fare to CLT from NYC. ERJ or not, I dont care if it's Hapoo and his magic carpet--Illl fly it for half the price anyday.

I'm curious what "services" U is providing me on that NYC-CLT flight. As a Silver, Im usually always in Y (and Im not complaining), there's no IFE, legroom is a bit cramped for a 6'5 frame and Ive yet to have a pleasant FA expeience that ive remebered. Ive often found the best "service" on my US EXP RJ flights from ROC-BOS.

I think the flight is worth $200 RT given the current market price. It will now fall into that range thankfully, so perhaps that is the good news.

I'm w// all you folks hoping for 3X miles as well--just venting their BS fare structure....

You very well may be right---but I think my view probably reflect a good % of the general public who flies 4-5 times a year. I have a college buddy in CLT and Im very sick of paying that obscene fare to CLT from NYC. ERJ or not, I dont care if it's Hapoo and his magic carpet--Illl fly it for half the price anyday.

They have such high cost-structures that they could probably fill just about every seat on the CRJ (if that is possible to do with PAX and baggage) and still lose money.

November up until spring break of 2005 is going to be mighty tough for FLYI. Sure they will have Airbus Aircraft starting in November, but the aforementioned period is the hardest time of the year to turn a buck in the airline business.

They have such high cost-structures that they could probably fill just about every seat on the CRJ (if that is possible to do with PAX and baggage) and still lose money.

Neo, I don't think economics was your major, so I'll help you out with this one, Independence has a break even load factor of 70% on the RJ charging an average fare of $80. that means we need to sell 35 tickets at $80 to break even for an average flight. Now you are right the CASM is .16 cents, but CASM is stage length dependant, and with the very short average stage length (340m) , RASM is also very high. So keep on indy bashing, it's fun to see how some people just don't get it.

News out of CLT is that US plans to cut IAD-CLT fares to $29 one-way starting in October. This was mentioned by my sister who heard this on the local CLT news. I have yet to see any news story about this, but will continue looking.

I wonder how many times I can fly to IAD and back in one day...hmmm.

I wonder how many times I can fly to IAD and back in one day...hmmm.

Not many ;)

I fly out of IAD about once every week and delays there seem to be getting worse and worse lately, in part because of all the extra FlyI traffic.

i'm not very optimistic about the viability of independence air. a regional jet low fare airline seems like a flawed concept. However, for as long as they exist, they will do great financial harm to UAL, and to a lesser (but still large extent) US Airways.

Not many ;)

I fly out of IAD about once every week and delays there seem to be getting worse and worse lately, in part because of all the extra FlyI traffic.

IAD has a runway closed for repair this summer. It should get better when that is complete.

Y'all can make fun of FlyI all you want, but at least give them credit for bringing Go-Fares to DCA.

US may have a ray of hope and Independence may have one huge thing against them. To my knowledge they are not part of SABRE or other airline reservation system allowing travel agents to sell their tickets. With this limitaton Independence does not show up in my corporate travel agent system so I CANNOT fly I. My company has a very defined, tightly controlled policy on airline travel by employees. The system is loaded with controls to encourage flying the lowest logical airfare. If Independence were in the system then I would probably be flying I already. But not because in order to fly I you must either book on their website or call them direclty. If I were to book a trip on FlyI my employer would not reimburse my airline ticket because I booked oustide of the corp travel agency. A big no-no for us.


I posted earlier that I expected DH to move to widen their distribution. Look for it to happen in the very near future. I don't think you'll see all their fares in the common res systems, (e.g. no $29 fares) but they will have fares out there soon enough.

Oh its just a matter of sitting back and watching FlyI burn through their pile of cash they pilfered from UA. All ACA had to do was put a plane up in the air to make money from UA--when they managed to do that (sometime during the day) they got paid. Unfortunately here in the real world they are getting slaughtered because they are forced to run a real airline. Plus they have absloutely no premium pricing power (so much for a high RASM) and with loadfactors of 47%, it won't be too long before the last one out has to turn off the lights.



Neo, I don't think economics was your major, so I'll help you out with this one, Independence has a break even load factor of 70% on the RJ charging an average fare of $80. that means we need to sell 35 tickets at $80 to break even for an average flight. Now you are right the CASM is .16 cents, but CASM is stage length dependant, and with the very short average stage length (340m) , RASM is also very high. So keep on indy bashing, it's fun to see how some people just don't get it.

Oh its just a matter of sitting back and watching FlyI burn through their pile of cash they pilfered from UA. All ACA had to do was put a plane up in the air to make money from UA--when they managed to do that (sometime during the day) they got paid. Unfortunately here in the real world they are getting slaughtered because they are forced to run a real airline. Plus they have absloutely no premium pricing power (so much for a high RASM) and with loadfactors of 47%, it won't be too long before the last one out has to turn off the lights.

Neo--I have to agree with you on this one. I would put 6:1 odds that FlyI fails.

Of course, if US fails, the odds of FlyI surviving go up.

I personally would never choose to fly an airline that connects in IAD (unless no other alternatives), and generally would rather get direct flights than not direct (sometimes even on SWA - gasp!). But I am not the travelling public, and as someone else stated, people are sick of paying the high fares out of CLT (whether they pay for fares themselves or pass them on to clients as I do).

Plus, Iair is trendy, and has new planes. People complain about the state of US planes being old and dirty, and then can't understand why someone would want to fly on "sleek, comfortable, 50-passenger iJETS™ with leather seats. And when service to the west coast begins this Fall, we’ll take you there in brand new Airbus 319’s with seat-back TV and leather seats."

This is what I like (and have to say SWA creams all the majors in this dept): "You board fast, fly fast, get off fast and get on with your day."

I admit enough that I don't know enough about airline economics to know whether they will last (and would not be an investor in the stock), but I do know that US better do something fast to retain customers if they want to continue flying.

For laughs: I am watching "Bulls and Bears" on Fox, and Tobin Smith's prediction was that JetBlue would buy out US!

Question: Has anyone actually flown on Iair? It would be interesting to hear from someone who as actually tried the product. Surprisingly, they don't have a forum on Flyertalk.

They are going to be competing against Jet Blue which has already been there, done that with a dramatically lower CASM than IAIR.

Plus from November to March, with the exception of Thanksgiving and Christmas, I would be shocked if 40% of the seats on their A319s.


I personally would never choose to fly an airline that connects in IAD (unless no other alternatives), and generally would rather get direct flights than not direct (sometimes even on SWA - gasp!). But I am not the travelling public, and as someone else stated, people are sick of paying the high fares out of CLT (whether they pay for fares themselves or pass them on to clients as I do).

Plus, Iair is trendy, and has new planes. People complain about the state of US planes being old and dirty, and then can't understand why someone would want to fly on "sleek, comfortable, 50-passenger iJETS™ with leather seats. And when service to the west coast begins this Fall, we’ll take you there in brand new Airbus 319’s with seat-back TV and leather seats."

This is what I like (and have to say SWA creams all the majors in this dept): "You board fast, fly fast, get off fast and get on with your day."

I admit enough that I don't know enough about airline economics to know whether they will last (and would not be an investor in the stock), but I do know that US better do something fast to retain customers if they want to continue flying.

For laughs: I am watching "Bulls and Bears" on Fox, and Tobin Smith's prediction was that JetBlue would buy out US!

Question: Has anyone actually flown on Iair? It would be interesting to hear from someone who as actually tried the product. Surprisingly, they don't have a forum on Flyertalk.

Question: Has anyone actually flown on Iair?

Several:
IAD-GSO (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344501)
IAD-LAN (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346571)
IAD-SYR (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340373)

I don't know why they don't get their own board either. It would presumably be more active than, for instance, YX...

Of course, if US fails, the odds of FlyI surviving go up.


True, but Flyi's primary competition is UAL. As long as UAL offers the same fares with massive FF perks, FlyI does not have a chance. In fact, Flyi's only chance is that UAL goes under much sooner than expected.

Well if FlyI fails as an independent airline, they can always go back to operating as United Express. With horrible Mesa and refugee camp Terminal G at IAD, their past performance isn't looking nearly as bad.

True, but Flyi's primary competition is UAL. As long as UAL offers the same fares with massive FF perks, FlyI does not have a chance.

Not necessarily. For those of us who O&D out of Dulles, the "new" United Express sans ACA has one enormous disadvantage: Terminal G.

I took my first flight out of Terminal G yesterday and can say with confidence that it will be my last for a long time to come. The bus ride from the main terminal took a good 12-15 minutes and the terminal itself is grossly undersized with no Red Carpet Club, only one bar/newsstand, and harried gate agents working five flights at once.

Since most of my flights on US and UA are transcons, I'll sacrifice the 1000 miles I'd get on each shorter-distance RJ UAX segment out of IAD for the convenience of flying Independence out of the close-in A gates.

However, if I needed to fly, say, IAD-GSO or IAD-LAN on a weekly basis, I might still consider going through the "refugee camp" of G at IAD for the FF perks. Not for a few segments a year though, at least while FlyI is still in business.

Not necessarily. For those of us who O&D out of Dulles, the "new" United Express sans ACA has one enormous disadvantage: Terminal G.

I took my first flight out of Terminal G yesterday and can say with confidence that it will be my last for a long time to come. The bus ride from the main terminal took a good 12-15 minutes and the terminal itself is grossly undersized with no Red Carpet Club, only one bar/newsstand, and harried gate agents working five flights at once.

Since most of my flights on US and UA are transcons, I'll sacrifice the 1000 miles I'd get on each shorter-distance RJ UAX segment out of IAD for the convenience of flying Independence out of the close-in A gates.

However, if I needed to fly, say, IAD-GSO or IAD-LAN on a weekly basis, I might still consider going through the "refugee camp" of G at IAD for the FF perks. Not for a few segments a year though, at least while FlyI is still in business.

It seems you just made my point. In spite of disliking the terminal, for anything but occasional flying, you would take UA instead of FlyI for the FF perks.

It seems you just made my point. In spite of disliking the terminal, for anything but occasional flying, you would take UA instead of FlyI for the FF perks.

Yes, that's right, though if I actually did have to fly 100+ segments per year out of IAD Terminal G I might think twice about my loyalty to UA/US miles.

Interesting that in the case of Dulles, it's the LCC that has the better situated gates.

I really hope that Independence Air makes it. They have really shaken things up with their low fares, excellent service, and suave image. Am I too naive in wondering why people put up with the "Ghetto" gates in Washington, when Independence Air has completely remodeled the A gates? What does that say about FLYI's priorities? A brand new airline that spends millions of dollars to renovate the gate area just so the passengers can be more comfortable. To me it says, the customer comes first. FLYI's customer comes first attitude, frequent service, and low fares are why they will be around a long time. I wish more Mileage Plus members could see how UAL is mistreating them by forcing them to fly Mesa, Air Whiskey, Shuttle America, etc. UAL would probably do better to buy them an Independence Air ticket and offer some FF miles to make sure you come back.

Just my thoughts,
Cheers,
BBB