A couple of months ago I decided to change my loyalty from US to NW. NW comped me to Gold Elite and I purchased a club membership. What a world of difference! I'm not going to bash US, but I should bash myself for not making the change earlier.

NW's planes are clean, and every flight so far has been on time. Flight crews are pleasent and professional. DTW has it all over PHL. NW's clubs are far better than any US club I had been into (with possibly the exception of the Envoy club), with free drinks and a much better selection of snacks. I have been upgraded on all of the flights I've taken so far with the exception of a SNA-DTW flight last week. Glassware, better wines and far superior meals on NW, I will say the US snack basket is better and they do have Finlandia.

I'm buring the last of my Dividend Miles for an Envoy class trip to Europe and that should be it, I wish good luck to those who are going to stick it out, but I just raised the bar for myself. I really should have done this much earlier, flying is much more enjoyable again.

The NW hub clubs are wonderful, they actually have self-service draft beer, and open bars. Also in MSP some of the clubs have fireplaces. If you fly enough and get to know people, I think they also op up people internationally. However, officially, on CO and NW, it is exceedingly difficult to upgrade internationally even as Platinum. You must buy a very expensive ticket and burn miles for the upgrade.

I had a great experience this winter with the BOS world club. I was actually flying B6, and I wanted to get a meal to take on. The BOS club reps had the menus for all the airport restaurants, and they called in my order to the restaurant so it was ready to pick up. They offered to pick it up for me, but I had time so just picked it up myself; but very good service overall.

A friend recently also got an NW op upgrade but he thought the seats were not as good as other carriers, and he wasn't that thrilled with the meal, but I think his last F class were back in the good old days.

Also I have found the NW Customer Relations department plays more fair than other big six similar operations.

The only 2 things holding me back from a complete transition to NW are:

1) International upgrades.

2) Laptop power ports.

I don't fly a lot of international so that's a relatively small hurdle. Laptop ports are fairly important but I'm finding that the battery on my new laptop lasts longer than the old one -- that too may turn out to be a small hurdle.

I find NW to be a much more pleasant experience domestically. I'm especially statisfied with how the upgrade process works fairly and automatically -- US just fumbled another UG for me for next weekend :( Somehow or other it got "lost". Luckily the RF bound flight was available -- then again it's a Saturday am flight... The outbound flight is no such luck so I'll be dancing at the gate :( Meanwhile NW sends me nice e-mails & text messages letting me know my upgrades have cleared and reminding me that it is time to checkin online and so forth.

Service in F is reliable and pleasant. The food is quite respectable -- it's no 5-star restuarant but it does the job and there's always something noteworthy (the cheesecake on my last flight was quite good -- far better than that sawdust US was serving a while ago...) They serve beverages in glasses or, in the case of coffee, a nice nug. (And the coffee is drinkable!)

And on my MSP -> MHT flight Saturday we even got a hot meal :) (Ok, it was a catering error... but they did it anyway -- US would have thrown the meals out to teach those leeches in F a lesson...)

Speaking of which -- I've got a flight to catch...

Anyone ride a NW Airbus A330 yet? I'm curious as to how the service in coach and biz compare to US service.

Another problem for me with NW is I don't know that they have the Verizon Airfone. I have the plan for $.10 a minute for incoming and outgoing calls which you can get if you have a Verizon Wireless cell phone. See thread in Travel Technology for an extensive review I wrote up.

Also NW lacks much of an east coast operation.

The NW hub clubs are wonderful, they actually have self-service draft beer, and open bars. Also in MSP some of the clubs have fireplaces. If you fly enough and get to know people, I think they also op up people internationally. However, officially, on CO and NW, it is exceedingly difficult to upgrade internationally even as Platinum. You must buy a very expensive ticket and burn miles for the upgrade.

I had a great experience this winter with the BOS world club. I was actually flying B6, and I wanted to get a meal to take on. The BOS club reps had the menus for all the airport restaurants, and they called in my order to the restaurant so it was ready to pick up. They offered to pick it up for me, but I had time so just picked it up myself; but very good service overall.

A friend recently also got an NW op upgrade but he thought the seats were not as good as other carriers, and he wasn't that thrilled with the meal, but I think his last F class were back in the good old days.

Also I have found the NW Customer Relations department plays more fair than other big six similar operations.

World Clubs
Self serve open bar :p Heineken & Miller Lite draft, Fetzer sundial chard, Cab & Merlot cheese & crackers, assorted Pepperidge Farm cookie 2 paks and Atkins bars, apples/oranges. In the mornings they have bagels & muffins. Furniture that isn't 20 years old, fireplaces, and thank God > cell phone free areas, I love it!

Yup, no airphone service or laptop power ports and no transcon video entertaiment. Foot rests in first, but the seats are not as wide as US F seats, but they are clean.

My dinner in F the other evening to the West coast was - mixed greens/tomato/sliced cucumber with smoked salmon and capers w/creamy italian beef tips/mushroom gravy over bow tie pasta, cooked carrots and zuchinni, warm bread & butter and cheese cake. Cabernet and coffee. Drinks in glass, food on plates, coffee in mugs, plastic utensils with linen table cloth. A319 aircraft

When I mentioned to my seat mate that I used to fly with US, he just rolled his eyes.

There was another dinner selection also

If you conduct a brief review of the resume's of some of the current crop of US executives you'll find a few spent some years at NWA & AA.

Not sure what that means in the current environment. Maybe if US gets out of the soup we'll see some NWA type promotions and such.

If you conduct a brief review of the resume's of some of the current crop of US executives you'll find a few spent some years at NWA & AA.

Not sure what that means in the current environment. Maybe if US gets out of the soup we'll see some NWA type promotions and such.

Or OTOH they left because they didn't like NWA's approach to customers.

I have to ask again, but I already know the answer. What is a hub dweller to do? Most of you folks are used to a connection on your flights but for me that is a huge step backwards. I also love the NW clubs, and haven't experienced much else in the line of their product. Come Q4, I'm going to be looking for a new best friend in Charlotte...might NW be it?

Not sure what that means in the current environment.
I would be more than glad to enlighten you on this subject in PHL. To print it here would mean a trip to the cornfield. :D

NW elites also almost always clear for upgrades due to the large size of their F cabins. Even on 80-90 seat DC-9's, they have 16 F seats. The downside to the DC-9's though is the seat width, which is only a slight improvement over the Y seat, because the 9's seat 2-3 in coach. Also, legroom is not as generous as US F class. And the F seats are cloth, not leather like US's. And NW also flies much older planes. Their DC-9's and 10's are still chugging around everywhere, as are their 747-200's. They were also one of the last to retire their 727's back in 2002. And as mentioned earlier, there is no IFE on flights, and most aircraft, like the DC-9's, are not even equipped.

One of the biggest advantages though, as a NW elite, is complimentary upgrades on CO. CO, let me remind all, is still serving generous 4 course meals, and lobster in F class.

IMO, US and NW each have their own disadvantages, but I think NW beats US out by a little bit because of the CO upgrades and real F class.

GotCalcio4,
I’m just wondering… why is the age of NW’s fleet relevant? US’s fleet may be newer, but they’ve spent little money (at least in recent years) maintaining the interior that most planes (including many Airbii) look like junk on the inside. In fact, this year I’ve flown on at least a half-dozen US aircraft in which seats were out of service (presumably broken) -- I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many outside of US in my lifetime!

The only 2 things holding me back from a complete transition to NW are:

1) International upgrades.

2) Laptop power ports.

My NWA World Traveler magazine has a whole page on power ports in WBC and coach, so they're at least on some of the newer planes.

For the A330, I flew a US one to FRA while my companion flew a NW one, right after they were introduced. From what he said, their service is a step up from US -- their IFE is VoD and has some games in there as well. The C seats are 10.4" screens, and have a nearly flat recline, though there was something weird about the way they reclined past the 135 degree mark that took some getting used to. There's power in most seats in Y and all in C that uses a regular American-style power plug rather than the special three pin round adapter you have to have for the US A330.

I was flying NW the day their computers crashed (14 July). I just got a letter today (postmarked a few days ago) saying they were putting miles in my account for the inconvenience. I didn't even complain about it, but I was delayed about 3-4 hours. It'll be interesting to see if US does something similar for people flying the other day when their computers went down (even if it wasn't directly their fault).

I still like US, but I'm definately enjoying NW for trips as well. I'll probably stick with US/LH for Europe, and NW for Asia trips, and whichever works better for domestic. I'll probably never make top tier again, but I can hedge between two programs until the dust settles some more in the next 18 months. The biggest issue I have is that NW has no access to a club in the RDU airport, but hopefully they'll do something about that and then I might go get a NW club membership as well.

One other thing I just found about on NW -- it looks like Gold and Platinum (GP and CP) can upgrade award tickets...not just the rulebuster, but the regular ones as well, and that's on the standard upgrade schedule. That's a pretty cool bonus feature to me.

Laptop power is apparently available for some international flights. None of the 319/320s, 757s, DC9s and so forth have it.

F seats on the 319/320 family are cloth but seem, to me, to be the same width as US' and have slightly more legroom (perhaps because they aren't as "thick?). They're plenty comfortable and I see no pen marks ;) The footrests are nice (but not all planes have them). Cloth vs Leather is no big deal to me -- I could go either way.

I take the lack of Airfones as a positive -- it shows good fiscal sense. The lack of domestic IFE is neutral to me -- I rarely watch it anyway and these days on US there isn't any except on transcons and international. And that stuff is pretty lame.

NW's food is substantially better than my last few meals on US although the contents of US' snack basket are slightly better on the whole. I can't speak to CO -- it's been a while but a few years ago I liked CO's breakfast quite a lot.

Real glasses. Real coffee mugs. Real coffee.

Attentive flight attendants with upbeat attitudes.

Aggressive and effective use of technology.

They go to most of the places I need to go -- including one city that US has dropped (SNA) and another that will soon be dropped (FWA) that was only served by a Saab anyway.

I see a lot of Dividend Miles bag tags on my NW flights.

In fact, this year I’ve flown on at least a half-dozen US aircraft in which seats were out of service (presumably broken) -- I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many outside of US in my lifetime!I have seen more. I was Eastern Airlines in it's final months of operation. :eek:

I have been using NW as my back up to US all this year. I was comped silver and have just earned it through next year. Overall, i think that NW is very good. The upgrade process is much better than US'. Even as a silver I get more upgrades than I do as gold with US. I too was flying on July 14th - and I haven't gotten any letter apologizing or any points from NW - HMM.
I really don't want US to fail. I like the people and they have better routing out of GSO. Also, I go to Europe a couple of times a year and I really like that I have been able to upgrade on US 3 out of 4 times using only 10k miles. That being said, I think that I will forego trying for Chairmain's and see what I can rack up with NW for the remainder of the year.

I have been using NW as my back up to US all this year. I was comped silver and have just earned it through next year. Overall, i think that NW is very good. The upgrade process is much better than US'. Even as a silver I get more upgrades than I do as gold with US. I too was flying on July 14th - and I haven't gotten any letter apologizing or any points from NW - HMM.
I really don't want US to fail. I like the people and they have better routing out of GSO. Also, I go to Europe a couple of times a year and I really like that I have been able to upgrade on US 3 out of 4 times using only 10k miles. That being said, I think that I will forego trying for Chairmain's and see what I can rack up with NW for the remainder of the year.


Are you currently gold and were only comped to Silver? I would think that if you had gold status, you would be comped to gold.

Yes, the upgrade process is better on NW, and the reciprocity with CO is stronger than it is btwn UA/US.

I wonder if they will comp CPs to platinum? You only need 75,000 miles to get top tier status on NW.

I can see why people from CLT would be hesitant to switch, but for others in NC who have to connect anyway, it is the best alternative to flying on DL, or waiting it out to see if US will or will not survive.

The only thing that I don't like, is that it has been difficult for me to use the FF miles in the past.

I got upgraded as a CO silver on NW all the time a couple of years ago (when my travel was much lighter than now!). I currently have gold status with CO (though haven't used them once this year), so I know I would get upgraded through that. The recipriocity btwn NW and CO make it a very strong alternative. I read recently that DL might strengthen their partnership with NW and CO too, becoming more like the others. DL is already giving the free upgrades.

Actually, the business model of having multiple airlines forming a tight alliance (codeshare flights, similar FF programs) is one that could really compete w/LCC since the number of hubs increase substantially.

It's too bad that US and UA couldn't form that kind of alliance. I don't see that happening in the near future.

Another question: why in this environment, do AA and UA continue to only upgrade using the points system, when their first class cabins consistently have empty seats.

While NW is not exactly in great financial health, its chances of survival are much higher than U. Thus it is hard to argue with the strategy of using NW as your backup carrier in the event that U goes under.

I wonder if they will comp CPs to platinum? You only need 75,000 miles to get top tier status on NW.

I don't think so. I was given Gold, which I'm working on keeping for next year.

Are you currently gold and were only comped to Silver? I would think that if you had gold status, you would be comped to gold.

Yes, the upgrade process is better on NW, and the reciprocity with CO is stronger than it is btwn UA/US.

I wonder if they will comp CPs to platinum? You only need 75,000 miles to get top tier status on NW.

I can see why people from CLT would be hesitant to switch, but for others in NC who have to connect anyway, it is the best alternative to flying on DL, or waiting it out to see if US will or will not survive.

The only thing that I don't like, is that it has been difficult for me to use the FF miles in the past.

I got upgraded as a CO silver on NW all the time a couple of years ago (when my travel was much lighter than now!). I currently have gold status with CO (though haven't used them once this year), so I know I would get upgraded through that. The recipriocity btwn NW and CO make it a very strong alternative. I read recently that DL might strengthen their partnership with NW and CO too, becoming more like the others. DL is already giving the free upgrades.
Actually, the business model of having multiple airlines forming a tight alliance (codeshare flights, similar FF programs) is one that could really compete w/LCC since the number of hubs increase substantially.

It's too bad that US and UA couldn't form that kind of alliance. I don't see that happening in the near future.

Another question: why in this environment, do AA and UA continue to only upgrade using the points system, when their first class cabins consistently have empty seats.

pgalore: are you saying that you've been upgraded as a nw/co elite on dl in a "regular" fashion? It was my understanding -- and it has been my experience -- that dl does not upgrade nw or co elites. nw or co status doesn't even register in dl's system.

Have we forgotten this?

Stranded passengers get class-action status
Ruling lets 8,000 Detroit passengers join legal fight against Northwest Airlines

DETROIT (AP) -- Passengers who were stranded on the runway at Detroit Metropolitan Airport during a snowstorm can join forces against Northwest Airlines in a class-action lawsuit, a judge ruled Friday.

The ruling allows about 8,000 passengers -- who in some cases were trapped on airplanes for more than eight hours Jan. 3 -- to join four lawsuits already filed.

Todd Nemecek, who said he was stuck on the tarmac for 9 1/2 hours while trying to get home to Kansas City, called the ruling "great news."

"We don't really expect to ever see anything, but at least the airlines know they can't do whatever they please," Nemecek said. "They lost me as a paying customer."

Passengers claimed they were wrongly forced to remain on more than a dozen planes during the storm that dumped nearly 2 feet of snow on the airport.

A U.S. Department of Transportation report released this month found that Northwest did not violate any federal regulations but that conditions were "severe enough to have jeopardized passengers' well-being."

Rather than deal with thousands of individual claims, lawyers argued that the matter should be given class-action status to avoid a strain on the legal system and an undue burden on passengers who live outside Michigan.

Northwest attorneys argued that there were so many different situations among the passengers that the lawsuits did not warrant class-action status. They said each passenger suffered different emotional injuries that must be individually weighed.

But Wayne County Circuit Judge Daphne Means Curtis ruled that each passenger's situation was similar enough.

"I don't think it matters that on some flights, toilets may have overflowed or some stock of food and beverage were low on different flights," she said. Even though "there may be differences in terms of injuries or allegations of some class members in this case, there are common questions that predominate."

Northwest spokesman Jon Austin said a ruling in favor of class-action status was expected.

"Certainly, it doesn't go to the merits of the case. It doesn't change our expectations at all," he said.

The only thing that I don't like, is that it has been difficult for me to use the FF miles in the past.

As a longtime veteran of the NW-CO alliance, I assume that pgalore is trying to use the miles in C class to Europe. This is especially difficult here, for you will find very few availabilities for standard awards but, surprise, almost every flight is usually available for the double price rulebuster.
But domestically, there is wide availability.

Have we forgotten this?

That was five years ago... NW has since opened a new terminal/facilities at DTW...

It's interesting that a similiar incident happened to DL at ATL a couple years ago but failed to make headlines. I guess "Delta" and "Atlanta" probably wouldn't horrify people as much as "Northwest" and "Detroit" did -- that is, of course, unless you actually fly Delta through Atlanta :p.

FWIW, most of those people walked away with a full refund, several hundred (some several THOUSAND) dollars and free tickets... no bad IMO...

Another CLT hub resident here. 2 questions:

1) Those of you using NW out of NC - are your connections through Memphis? Most of my travel is in the SE, which leads me to think that DL may be the better choice. Getting to FLL from CLT through Memphis or DTW seems like a big waste of time.

2) How does one go about getting status comped on another airline? And is there any good reason not to do it on a couple of them? Perhaps it's conditioned upon a certain number of flights in a certain timeframe?

Thanks!

Atlanta is the WORST place to connect. I am US gold ( almost CP) and NW silver. Most of my NW connections are through Detroit or Minneapolis. NW is much better than Delta. I was gold medallion 2 years ago, but after a few horrifying customer service experiences , I issued my own moratoreum ( sp?) on Delta ( which stands for don't expect to leave Atlanta). I live in GSO and find NW pretty convenient. I hope US doesn't croak but NW is a decent back up for me :)

2) How does one go about getting status comped on another airline? And is there any good reason not to do it on a couple of them? Perhaps it's conditioned upon a certain number of flights in a certain timeframe?

Contact the other carrier's frequent flyer office directly. NW just comp'd me to Gold (I'm a US1). I've already renewed my US1 status 4 times over in 2004, so I'm flying NW September-December to at least renew Gold with them. Now, remember that this is generally a once-in-a-lifetime courtesty, so use it wisely. Unless you have some sort of life event that takes you away from flying (e.g., major surgery, disability, new child, return to graduate school, etc.), airlines will generally not comp you a second time. So use it carefully!

I actually get upgraded on DL because I have Gold Medallion, not through my CO status.

I think the DL customer service really has gotten alot better since the beginning of this year (at least that I've experienced). I was worried when I started flying on them in January, but since then it has been few delays (far fewer than with US), and no cancellations. The flights I have been on, the FAs are very attentive and courteous.

AND, they don't make you wait until the last minute, after you''re already seated, and have already found a place for your luggage in coach and all the overhead bins in FC are full, like SOME airlines (US) to find out if you've been upgraded.

Atlanta is not my favorite airport, but it is more convenient for NC to get around the SE. Of course, if you have plenty of time to spare, that would not be a concern. But I myself try to find the most convenient flights, and DL has more flights around the SE than any other (than US).

And I don't think I'm the only one that's had trouble using the NW awards, just hop on over to the NW board and you can see for yourself..


I hope US makes it, I like having additional options, but I don't think DL is a bad second choice.

GotCalcio4,
I’m just wondering… why is the age of NW’s fleet relevant? US’s fleet may be newer, but they’ve spent little money (at least in recent years) maintaining the interior that most planes (including many Airbii) look like junk on the inside. In fact, this year I’ve flown on at least a half-dozen US aircraft in which seats were out of service (presumably broken) -- I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many outside of US in my lifetime!


Age matters because:

-The old planes lack IFE
-Some old planes are grungy
-Old planes cause operating delays
-Although not directly affecting the traveller, NW pays much more in fuel costs (DC-9 uses 2.5X the fuel of a 717 [yes I know US doesn't fly the 717, but you get the idea])
-Old planes do not have power ports
-Old planes have smaller overhead bins

Age matters because:

-The old planes lack IFE
-Some old planes are grungy
-Old planes cause operating delays
-Although not directly affecting the traveller, NW pays much more in fuel costs (DC-9 uses 2.5X the fuel of a 717 [yes I know US doesn't fly the 717, but you get the idea])
-Old planes do not have power ports
-Old planes have smaller overhead bins

The 757's and I believe a number of the Airbus A319/320 are IFE equipped,
but NW currently does not use them domestically. If IFE is your thing,
however, then you probably won't be happy with NW. Of course, the
international planes are IFE equipped with the new A330's having seat-back
video-on-demand systems.

The DC-9's have been all been refurbed within the last 5 years or
so and I find them to been generally clean and in good condition. Some
of the older 757-200's can be a bit grungy. The Airbus A319/A320's
are fairly new (they are still taking new deliveries) and in good condition
generally. Internationally, the older 747-200's and DC-10's are being
phased out for new Airbus A330's.

I believe the DC-9's, despite being NW's oldest planes, have among
the highest dispatch rates.

Airtran and Hawaiian claim that the 717 is about 25-30% more
fuel efficient compared to the DC-9. Where did you get your 2.5X
figure? Perhaps you'd like to compare NW's cash
position to US's? ;)

You got us on the power-ports. However, internationally, the new
A330's have standard 110V AC power-plugs.

When the DC-9's were refurbed, they got the 717 style interior including
larger overhead bin's. The A319/A320 also have good size bins. The
new 757-300's have very large bins, however, the bins on the
757-200's are somewhat small (fitting in a stuffed roll-a-board can
be difficult).

Age matters because:

-The old planes lack IFE
-Some old planes are grungy
-Old planes cause operating delays
-Old planes do not have power ports
-Old planes have smaller overhead bins

None of your factors (affecting travelers) have anything to do with age. Numerous old planes (private and commercial) have been renovated to incorpoatate IFE (Canadian's 732, Legend's DC-9), powerports (again, Canadian's 732, Legend's DC-9), and new (re: non grungy) interiors w/large overhead bins (NW's DC-9 have BigBins, which are larger than US's entire 737 fleet). As mentioned, NW's DC-9 have the second-best dispatch within the airline's fleet, behind only the 319.

Your points are too much of a generalization.

I'll second everything LBJ stated.

A DC-9 at altitude burns 6,000 pounds/hour. A CRJ at altitude burns 3,000 pounds/hour. I'd be surprised if a 717 burns less than a CRJ....

Is fuel burn on an aircraft a consideration for you when choosing a Frequent Flyer program? :confused:

Is fuel burn on an aircraft a consideration for you when choosing a Frequent Flyer program? :confused:


I believe in my original post I stated that fuel burn does not "directly affect the traveller," implying that it indeed was not a factor in my choice of a Frequent Flyer program.

None of your factors (affecting travelers) have anything to do with age. Numerous old planes (private and commercial) have been renovated to incorpoatate IFE (Canadian's 732, Legend's DC-9), powerports (again, Canadian's 732, Legend's DC-9), and new (re: non grungy) interiors w/large overhead bins (NW's DC-9 have BigBins, which are larger than US's entire 737 fleet). As mentioned, NW's DC-9 have the second-best dispatch within the airline's fleet, behind only the 319.

Your points are too much of a generalization.


Well your points are generalized and exaggerated, too. You say that an aircraft's age has NOTHING to do with operating delays that affect travellers. Don't tell me that NW has never had an operating delay caused by the sheer age of the plane. That statement in itself is just false. You'd be better suited by saying that MOST of the time, the age of NW's fleet does not affect their operations. You further generalize this statement by assuming that all airline's DC-9 fleets operate as well as NW's. Look at Valujet/AirTran in the late 90's, and note that 60% of every one of their DC-9 flights were disrupted as a direct result of the age of the airplanes. So yes, the sheer age of an airplane can, and sometimes does directly affect the traveller. NW, as I've been enlightened, has insured immunity from such disruptions by exceptionally maintaining their fleet which is great. But you, too, have generalized in your assumption that all airlines are like NW.


And LBJ- you got me. I put the decimal in the wrong place. I meant to say that a DC-9 burns .25X MORE fuel than a 717 does.

Age matters because:

-The old planes lack IFE
-Some old planes are grungy
-Old planes cause operating delays
-Although not directly affecting the traveller, NW pays much more in fuel costs (DC-9 uses 2.5X the fuel of a 717 [yes I know US doesn't fly the 717, but you get the idea])
-Old planes do not have power ports
-Old planes have smaller overhead bins


I'll take a NW DC9 with overhead and FC over a new RJ anyday

I'll take a NW DC9 with overhead and FC over a new RJ anyday

And so would I.