SP here, so I'm still working out how to maximize my benefits. This forum has certainly helped!

Question:
The other day Mrs. Diggler and I were traveling TPA-CLT on a 757. Checked in online 3 hours in advance (but didn't have a printer) so we got new BPs from the ticket counter. I had requested to be put on the UG list through the SP phone line. This was a Sunday morning (lots of F-A-P showing open), so I figured my chances were pretty good.

At the gate, I asked about UG and the agent said "we're not to that point yet". Loitered for a while after they began boarding, waiting for him to call some people up to UG. He called a few people, but no BPs were handed out, so I figured I'd keep waiting. After they called all rows, they called up one passenger who was waiting and said "last one" and handed her a BP. I gave up at this point and went to board. Upon going through F, noted 3 open seats, including 1A/1C. I'm not sure if they were ever filled....but they looked untouched when I left the plane in CLT.

Alas: the mystery passenger comes on board and sits down in coach! The flight wasn't sold out...so what did she get the "last one" of? And should I have continued to wait out at the gate? Should I have asked the agent again? I hate to be a pest when someone looks like they're busy. Thoughts? Thanks.

I've waited around and have been the last one on the plane waiting for the upgrades. It may have been that there were 2 people that were confirmed in F or on the upgrade list before you that were about to clear and they didn't make the flight.

It pays to wait around. :)

I had requested to be put on the UG list through the SP phone line.

I'm a bit of an upgrade specialist, since that is the main thing I care about. I think you may never have been on the correct upgrade list. When you call the DM line, you get put on the upgrade list for auto-clearing at the window. Sometimes (with increasing frequency,lately) that doesn't clear. In that case, there is a new list to get on at the airport. I believe that people who were waiting for upgrades in the reservation computer do not get on this new list. The only way, AFAIK, to get on the airport list is to ask at the ticket counter, club or the gate to be put on that list.

From the description of your conversation with the GA, they may have believed that you were already on the list and were telling you that they had not processed the standby upgraders yet. Depending on the agent, that can be very, very close to the time the plane leaves. I'd have to have heard the conversation, but I think that may be what happened. In that case, the "last one" was their last stand-by or upgrade passenger and they forgot about your brief conversation.

The key thing to ask the GA is to "put you on the list to upgrade." I usually casually inquire how it looks for me. They will respond with something like "you are third right now, for 6 seats, so it looks good" or "there is only one CP ahead of you" or something like that. If I think I'm already on the list, I usually ask if they check and see if I'm on the list or something similar. Before upgrading was governed by a thousand rules, I used to get them a lot just by schmoozing the GA. A little pleasantries or flirtation can go a long way.

If it looks like they are about to wrap up, you can politely inquire if your upgrade went through. When they have more people waiting than they can fit in F, they will often make an announcement in the gate area to that effect. I would avoid pestering them repeatedly, but sometimes I stand 15 feet from their desk to stay in their line of sight and remind them that I'm waiting.

MikeLaw is exactly right. Do what he said,

MikeLaw is exactly right. Do what he said,

This may be my favorite post ever. :D

Could you tell my spouse and employees the same thing, please?

Execellent question and response! I have had the same question in the past and glad someone asked. I had no idea there are 2 lists (pre-day of departure list and a gate list). However, I never just assumed I didn't get the upgrade until I ask about the status of it and get the sad response that I must sit in coach...

What are the rules for International Upgrades when using either miles Europe one-way award (when your wait listed) and a DMUTA3? Does one list get upgraded over the other? I assume the miles go before the space postive upgrade. Correct?

What are the rules for International Upgrades when using either miles Europe one-way award (when your wait listed) and a DMUTA3? Does one list get upgraded over the other? I assume the miles go before the space postive upgrade. Correct?

At the risk of ruining the lovefest I'm currently feeling, I'll take a stab at this one too. Once you get down the list that is maintained by the GA, the form of the upgrade doesn't mean anything. All seats are assigned using the same formula: Elite status first, then in order by check-in time. This means that CPs automatically jump to the head of the list. Golds, Silvers, Signature Card, Non-elite FFers and then non-members of the frequent flier order who happen to have some kind of coupon.

This brings me to the most important point for upgrade seekers. Check in on the web as early as you can. Currently, you can check in 30 hours in advance of your flight on the web. If you do this, you will be the first one in your group. As a gold, I always do this and I almost always get upgraded. The only people who are ahead of me are those pesky CPs. It is always funny when I go to get on the list and the GA tells me that there are already 20 people on the list and it doesn't look good for me, but she'll add my name and then she says with suprise "You just jumped to the top of the list." :D

The main advantage of using miles to upgrade is that you don't have to wait until your upgrade window hits, whereas IIRC the DMUTA3 can only be upgraded at your window (which means in effect, only at the gate for those of us in the GP/SP ranks). For Europe upgrades, this often means that miles could be worth it. You get confirmed at the time of ticketing and you can hang out in the Envoy lounge instead of stalking the gate agent before your flight. When I go to Europe in the summer, I usually use miles to upgrade. In the off-season, I'll take a chance on the gate upgrades. The chances of getting it vary significantly depending on what your destination is. The DM line is often very helpful at targeting flights to maximize your u/g potential and the fine folks on this forum are even more helpful.

I should also probably note that the webcheckin doesn't work for International travel. In that case, check in at the airport as early as you can manage.

I should also probably note that the webcheckin doesn't work for International travel. In that case, check in at the airport as early as you can manage.

However, in your ambition to be first on that UG waitlist, note that federal law does not allow you to check in earlier than four hours in advance (maybe six--couldn't find it on the website to confirm--someone here will correct me).

Seeing myself as being oh-so crafty, I once ran over to PHL at lunchtime, paid for parking, and stood in line, and tried to check in for an 8:30pm flight, only to be sent away. In a rare PHL customer service moment, however, the agent invited me to come directly to her when I returned later and to not stand in line again.

The main advantage of using miles to upgrade is that you don't have to wait until your upgrade window hits, whereas IIRC the DMUTA3 can only be upgraded at your window (which means in effect, only at the gate for those of us in the GP/SP ranks). For Europe upgrades, this often means that miles could be worth it. You get confirmed at the time of ticketing and you can hang out in the Envoy lounge instead of stalking the gate agent before your flight. When I go to Europe in the summer, I usually use miles to upgrade. In the off-season, I'll take a chance on the gate upgrades. The chances of getting it vary significantly depending on what your destination is. The DM line is often very helpful at targeting flights to maximize your u/g potential and the fine folks on this forum are even more helpful.


If I might add to Mike's statement -- while the DMUTA3 is only able to be used in your elite window, if you purchase a Y or B fare you can upgrade anytime in advance if seats are available. Typically there are some cheap B fares for travel to Europe in the Fall.

If I might add to Mike's statement -- while the DMUTA3 is only able to be used in your elite window, if you purchase a Y or B fare you can upgrade anytime in advance if seats are available. Typically there are some cheap B fares for travel to Europe in the Fall.



Also, if you don't have any DMUTA3s, you can upgrade transatlantic Y/B fares anytime in advance for only 10,000 miles each way.

Typically there are some cheap B fares for travel to Europe in the Fall.

I've heard of those, but never actually found them. All I'm getting to my one and only destination (FRA) is $1,433 + tax for the lowest B fare. Maybe they don't offer them to FRA...

However, in your ambition to be first on that UG waitlist, note that federal law does not allow you to check in earlier than four hours in advance (maybe six--couldn't find it on the website to confirm--someone here will correct me).

When I tried to check in five hours early at IAD, they said that the flight I was on was always late and moved me to an earlier flight "since I was here so early anyhow". No silly standby fees, either. This is one advantage we have at the outer stations.

I've heard of those, but never actually found them. All I'm getting to my one and only destination (FRA) is $1,433 + tax for the lowest B fare. Maybe they don't offer them to FRA...

I checked my favorite source:

http://fs.usairways.com/abs/fareQuote.do

PHL- FRA 12/1 B fare $1,433
PHL- LGW 12/1 B fare $478
LGA- LGW 12/1 B fare $454

I think it is your route.

mileshound, thanks for the link

So how come a silver preferred cleared before mr. macska (GP)? Mr. Macska checked in 30 hours ahead of time (ie, I got up at 1:30 in the AM to make sure!)

It is always funny when I go to get on the list and the GA tells me that there are already 20 people on the list and it doesn't look good for me, but she'll add my name and then she says with suprise "You just jumped to the top of the list."

How exactly does this work? Is it programmed into the computer? Is it a policy?

So how come a silver preferred cleared before mr. macska (GP)? Mr. Macska checked in 30 hours ahead of time (ie, I got up at 1:30 in the AM to make sure!)

The main method would be by purchasing a Y or B fare. Providing that there is P inventory available those are upgradeable immediately. E upgrades are restricted to their respective windows.

Another possibility would be that Mr. Macska wasn't actually in the queue. Sometimes people forget (and sometimes the airline screws it up.)

How exactly does this work? Is it programmed into the computer? Is it a policy?

The airport list is sorted by check-in time within your elite level. But you aren't on the airport list unless you ask to be on it -- it doesn't automatically flow over from the "window" list. So if you fail to clear at your upgrade window (7 days for CP, 3 for gold, 1 for silver) your best strategy is to check-in online to secure a good position within your elite level. Whether you check-in online or not you must ask to be put on the list at the airport. If you don't ask you'll be sitting in the back. But as soon as you ask the computer inserts you into the list at the position dictated by your dm status and check-in time.

The main method would be by purchasing a Y or B fare. Providing that there is P inventory available those are upgradeable immediately. E upgrades are restricted to their respective windows.

This happened at the gate, about a minute before the flight closed so I'm inclined to think the P v. E was not the issue. The silver would have been able to upgrade prior to the last minute if this were the case, I think.

Another possibility would be that Mr. Macska wasn't actually in the queue. Sometimes people forget (and sometimes the airline screws it up.)

Actually, Mr. Macska confirmed twice that he was at the top of the airport list. The gate agent saw Mr. Macska, told him first class was full, and as soon as Mr. Macska turned his back, proceeded to give the upgrade to a silver. Mr. Macska caught on and was not happy. Mr. Macska had been chatting with the silver earlier, and thus had learned that he was a silver. This silver status was confirmed by asking the guy again. And, the gate agent LIED to the Macskas-when confronted, she said the guy was actually a gold. Even if he had been a gold, Mr. Macska was at the top of the list. :mad: The good news is that we got the GA's name.

Whether you check-in online or not you must ask to be put on the list at the airport. If you don't ask you'll be sitting in the back. But as soon as you ask the computer inserts you into the list at the position dictated by your dm status and check-in time.

Thanks for the explanation. Am I correct in assuming that if i check in online at 30 hours and then don't arrive at the airport until 30 minutes before the flight, my position on the list won't be any different than if I arrived at the airport with 2 hours to spare? Does this vary at some airports? Most of the time, there are not enough CPs to knock Mr. Macska (gold) & me (the lowly companion who just earned silver for the first time :) ) out if we are at the top of the list.

... Am I correct in assuming that if i check in online at 30 hours and then don't arrive at the airport until 30 minutes before the flight, my position on the list won't be any different than if I arrived at the airport with 2 hours to spare?

Yes.

Does this vary at some airports?

It isn't supposed to vary by airport. If it does then it is individual action by gate agents.

To your other issue -- it is possible that the silver had a Y or B fare and simply hadn't asked until that point. It's also possible the the silver had turned gold and didn't realize it yet (it might not be a lie that the agent said gold and the passenger said silver...) -- at that point check-in time would have moved him ahead (if he wasn't already on the list as a silver.) It's also possible that the gate agent was out of line -- but it would take a lot of nerve to do it right in front of you like that.

There are lots of ways that list can change at the last minute -- its one reason that some of the agents don't like telling people where they stand. (I disagree -- I think that it's better to provide the information and explain the possibilities if necessary.)

Thanks for the explanation. Am I correct in assuming that if i check in online at 30 hours and then don't arrive at the airport until 30 minutes before the flight, my position on the list won't be any different than if I arrived at the airport with 2 hours to spare? Does this vary at some airports? Most of the time, there are not enough CPs to knock Mr. Macska (gold) & me (the lowly companion who just earned silver for the first time :) ) out if we are at the top of the list.

Generally yes, you can show up at the last minute and still keep your position. Although if you don't get to gate until 20 minutes or less before the flight leaves you run the risk that a gate agent who is hustling to close the flight has already given away the seats to others. I've seen some CPs lose out that way. They usually complain all the way to the back. ;)

In terms of your other situation, the gate agent can and does sometimes screw up. They should have fessed up to it and tried to make nice some way. I also know for a fact that they sometimes tell elites that there are no more first class seats and then allow employees to have the seats, which is something they are certainly not supposed to do.

To your other issue -- it is possible that the silver had a Y or B fare and simply hadn't asked until that point.
Nope the silver had already asked and was told nothing available.

It's also possible the the silver had turned gold and didn't realize it yet (it might not be a lie that the agent said gold and the passenger said silver...) -- at that point check-in time would have moved him ahead (if he wasn't already on the list as a silver.)

Unless he too got up at 1:30 AM to do an online check-in, he would not have been ahead of Mr. Macska in line.

It's also possible that the gate agent was out of line -- but it would take a lot of nerve to do it right in front of you like that.

I wish I could think of an alternative explanation that fits the facts....

Am I correct in assuming that if i check in online at 30 hours and then don't arrive at the airport until 30 minutes before the flight, my position on the list won't be any different than if I arrived at the airport with 2 hours to spare?

Both TomBascom and MikeLaw have provided excellent responses. One other exception, I think, from the scenario you outlined, is that a GA may decide to do the UGs 35 minutes before flight and you're not at the airport yet.....since you are not on the Day's UG list until you request it at the airport, any UG chance is gone. Your 30-hour on-line check-in time and Elite status lie dormant until you activate it by asking at the airport, and that becomes meaningless when the GA has already cleared everybody from his list before your airport arrival.

This past winter at MCO, I asked at check-in to be put on the UG list for my connecting CLT-FRA flight, and a few keystrokes later, the agent says it's done. Well, it was not....I was never put on the correct UG list, and I think it was just human error. I only found out in CLT by asking at the Club how the UG list was looking. My point is, mistakes happen and sometimes the system doesn't work as it should, but generally it has worked very well.

This past winter at MCO, I asked at check-in to be put on the UG list for my connecting CLT-FRA flight, and a few keystrokes later, the agent says it's done. Well, it was not....I was never put on the correct UG list, and I think it was just human error. I only found out in CLT by asking at the Club how the UG list was looking. My point is, mistakes happen and sometimes the system doesn't work as it should, but generally it has worked very well.

I get completely conflicting info regarding whether an agent at the original airport can put me on the UG list for my connection or if I have to check in again at the intermediate airport and make that request (I know I have to at least check in to see if I made the UG and get a new BP). I was told once that it was done for me although I have no idea if it was just coincidence since I did make the upgrade. This can be tough on tight connections, esp those made more tight by a delay in the originating flight. Anyone know for sure?

... whether an agent at the original airport can put me on the UG list for my connection or if I have to check in again at the intermediate airport and make that request

If it's down to the wire, I do it at original airport all the time, and check again at connecting airport just to be sure :)