I have a friend who is CP with a flight with 4-5 F and P seats available. However, no E seats ever cleared. The friend called the CP Desk 2-3 times and they checked with inventory management and they would not release an E seat even though 4-5 P/F/A seats available.

Then an agent advises friend that the CP desk just received a directive not to call inventory management on the day of departure at all. The friend asked the agent if the directive was day of departure only, and the agent sort of said that they have been told "never" call inventory management. The agent said that requests to inventory management had gotten out of hand (I thought only FT people even know what inventory management dept is :)

It makes sense though since Seth is out and about that they cannot take as many calls as if he were still doing that function :).

What really baffles me is why are they holding 4-5 P/F/A seats. Probably no seats ever cleared at all since the pax was on the list 7 days prior. It seems they are holding out for a dream which is extremely unlikely to come true, that is that even on day of dep that they will need 4-5 P/F/A seats.

It is kind of a pain to have to go wait in line to get on the airport standby list (you should be able to do that online), and if the pax arrives at the gate too late they might be trumped by a US2/US3 for the upgrade.

The friend asked someone if the kiosk can put you on this airport standby list and a US agent said that it might be able too but it has glitches :).

I guess I remember the good old days at one point with US Air Priority Gold where you were just confirmed literally in F booking code anytime prior to departure I think at one time. There was none of this P/E/A BS. I can see the BS for US2/US3's but once you graduate to US1 they rreally should remove any and all possible annoyances that they can. US1 should = like celebrity/VIP, etc. :)
I believe? in the past too they would upgrade pref pax before ticketing, where as now you must be ticketed.

Anyway thanks for listening to my rant :).

Yes. US is scaling back on advance upgades by doing F7 P7 A7 E0 on MANY Flights.

If CPs are begging agents to call inventory to release seats for a simple upgrade (that they probably would clear at the airport anyway) I can see why US would tell the CP line STOP CALLING INVENTORY.

I would never call and ask for the CP line to shoot their bullets for a DOMESTIC upgrade for me. I think thats being a too demanding of the favors they grant us.

Now, if it was for an International upgrade or award seat, THAT is where I would ask for some inventory assistance.

If we are calling and bugging them for our PHL-CLT upgrades, they are going to shut the whole thing down and we are going to get squat. Plus there are real reasons (other than favors) for the CP line to call inventory. An example was a ticket I had that was on hold to be ticketed and somehow the fare code I was booked on disappeared. The CP line called inventory to get that fare back and it saved me $600.

I use the software program called "Availability Tool" (see Miles Buzz) but it does not display E inventory. It shows F/P/A but not E. Is there another source to browse availability for E inventory online?

And do we really think there has been an organized change now to reduce E seating? I know at least a few people have posted that E seems to be harder to get now? Did Seth do something with E before he started running around DC?

I would never call and ask for the CP line to shoot their bullets for a DOMESTIC upgrade for me. I think thats being a too demanding of the favors they grant us.

Now, if it was for an International upgrade or award seat, THAT is where I would ask for some inventory assistance.

If we are calling and bugging them for our PHL-CLT upgrades, they are going to shut the whole thing down and we are going to get squat.
Neo I agree with you on all counts. However it now appears they are doing what ever they can to tighten down the screws. E inventory is no longer showing on any of the tools I use to see upgradeable inventory. They are now going by the "book" more and more. It is beginnig to remind me of SGB at DL.

It has now been a month since I was on my last US flight. In the last two week period I flew US, I upgraded someting like two out of ten flights, and those were at the gate. I an no longer willing to do the CP upgrade dance at the gate.

I gave DL almost $10,000 in revenue in June. For the first time in a long time I enjoyed being on DL. I am giving US another chance next week as I am on them for 12 legs. Of the first two next Monday, one cleared, one didn't. Tickets been booked for two weeks now and I still didn't clear. We will see tomorrow what happens as I should clear 4 legs. This next week is quiet possibly their last chance with me.

I use the software program called "Availability Tool" (see Miles Buzz) but it does not display E inventory. It shows F/P/A but not E. Is there another source to browse availability for E inventory online?


Not that I can find. I use as many as four different tools (KVS, Availablity too, ITN,etc and E is gone from all of them.

Yes. US is scaling back on advance upgades by doing F7 P7 A7 E0 on MANY Flights.

This started happening in May. When I asked the CP desk, they said that they wanted to keep their options open to be able to swap out equipment when needed, especially with the A fares available out of Phil. Regardless, I have always been able to clear either the day before or at the gate without a problem. I would check the status online and it would show confirmed. I would then call the CP desk to get a seat.

One time, it was a 320 and they were selling upgrades at the gate. I was the only one on the list. 3 folks bought the upgrade and F went out full.

This is not only the case with E inventory, but Res agents have been told to not call Inventory for anything. I was trying to put together an award ticket and couldnt get one leg, out of 4. The agent refused to call and try and get me a seat.

I think what is actually happening is US has been offering some FANTASTIC A fares in many markets. I haven't booked anything but A (on both US and UA, though UA uses fare basis codes that start with Y or Q yet come out of the A bucket) for the past few months. Sure, it's a few hundred more every week, but it's well worth the cost and reduced hassle, especially for transcons. Everytime someone books in A, that reduces E inventory. Depending on the market, this is what may be happening. Remember too that UA can sell A inventory on US flights, so you may also see reduced inventory since UA is perhaps selling A class fares on US operated flights.

Also, US has always tightened E inventory during prime hours, most notably Monday mornings.

I have noticed that a loit of times on the 321, they hold 10 seats for sale probably in case of an equipment sub to a 320 (16 of 26). However, there have also been times where 5 days out they have 10 seats and between then and day of departure, they sell most of them if not all. Another reasoning is that by holding 10 for sale, most gold and silver won't bother to get back on the list at the airport, and in return they can be sold through FirstUp at the gate for $100 minimum/$150 transcon.

Let's keep one other minor thing in mind. If US can *sell* F seats, that is what they will and should do. The F cabin exists first and foremost for those wishing to buy First class tickets (whether in F or A) and for those buy Envoy across the pond (which results in F domestically). The F cabin then exists for frequent fliers wishing to upgrade.

Let's keep one other minor thing in mind. If US can *sell* F seats, that is what they will and should do. The F cabin exists first and foremost for those wishing to buy First class tickets (whether in F or A) and for those buy Envoy across the pond (which results in F domestically). The F cabin then exists for frequent fliers wishing to upgrade.

I agree.

But I continue to have a difficult time figuring out when and where these fares are available and what the delta between an "ordinary" fare and an A fare is -- the web site relentlessly steers me to the lowest available fare and never tells me that there's an A fare out there. I'd probably buy some if they were offered -- but I'm not going to invest an hour in digging them out...

Hummmm. Went to ticket my roachfest ticket (using a voucher) this morning and to change the flights to different times. T/A said there were no seats on the flight I wanted, proceeded to call inventory without me asking, and got me the seats on the flights I wanted. The call was very short and there did not seem to be a problem with him calling. So maybe it is who you get and who they call. :confused:

USflyerUS, I do agree that they should be trying to sell the F seats. But what has changed in the pricing structure or service level to make them think they can. I have no problem with seats going to paying customers, but to give US 150+ segments a year and have to play the upgrade game for no apparent reason is not going to sit well with me.

BTW in reference to my post above, I cleared on all flights for next Tuesday that were upgradeable. This is the first time in a long time, so I will quit whining now. ^

I still can't get over the idea of calling the CP desk and demanding they free up E inventory. That's just beyond pushy and exactly the type of behavior that gets "rewarded" by curtailing legitimate benefits even further. :td:

I agree.

But I continue to have a difficult time figuring out when and where these fares are available and what the delta between an "ordinary" fare and an A fare is -- the web site relentlessly steers me to the lowest available fare and never tells me that there's an A fare out there. I'd probably buy some if they were offered -- but I'm not going to invest an hour in digging them out...

Tom -

Try http://fs.usairways.com/abs/fareQuote.do. For example, if you want to fly PHL-PIT-LAX, try looking up PHL-LAX along with PHL-PIT and PIT-LAX. Depending on the markets, the A fare may be available for all legs PHL to LAX or perhaps just PIT-LAX. I agree, it's a pain in the neck, but luckily my corporate travel office takes care of "creating" the ticket for me.

A lot of cross currents here. First, the age old "entitlement" thing, where we all start believing upgrade seats are a right. Of course the company plugging "unlimited upgrades" wouldn't have anything to do with feeding that perception. Then, the apparent removal of E seats from the CRS booking engines. They may have done this so that competitors can't analyze yields, but if, in fact, it has been done to limit customer access, when said customers simply use it to find flights with better upgrade access, then it would fall in the "mean spirited" category. Many struggling businesses have an annoying capacity for getting mad at their customers for their own stupidity. Let's hope that's not what we have here, for what it would mean is that they have seen the internal numbers, and the future is dim. That could also explain why there is no matching of Independence Air fares. Sort of a "why bother" approach. Very little has been said recently about operating trends, yet they have been gutted by an unprecedented onslaught of low fare carriers and majors doing a little fare trimming of their own. The recent denial of a government loan guarantee for United likely reflects the prospect that one of those loans already out there may bite the taxpayers on the butt soon. You have to wonder how, with the losses the company has had in normal operating conditions, the A fares will be helpful. OK, go hide your E seats. Why not? After all, this is an industry that hires a guy who took all the food off his airline (Siegel) to run a catering business.

Tom -

Try http://fs.usairways.com/abs/fareQuote.do. For example, if you want to fly PHL-PIT-LAX, try looking up PHL-LAX along with PHL-PIT and PIT-LAX. Depending on the markets, the A fare may be available for all legs PHL to LAX or perhaps just PIT-LAX. I agree, it's a pain in the neck, but luckily my corporate travel office takes care of "creating" the ticket for me.

Silly question... How how can you tell which fares are "A"? From the fare code?

I still can't get over the idea of calling the CP desk and demanding they free up E inventory. That's just beyond pushy and exactly the type of behavior that gets "rewarded" by curtailing legitimate benefits even further. :td:

Most of my flights are international. I only learned of inventory control when an international reservation agent told me he/she would call inventory control to see if they would release a seat. Of course, from FT I had learned that as a CP I could call 3 days before the flight to try to confirm the upgrade. But again, it was US Airways staff that, by volunteering to call inventory call, educated me at to their existence. Since then, at the 3 day window, if the international reservation doesn't voluntarily call inventory control -- and they do 90% of the time -- without any qualms I will ask the international agent to do so.

Most of my flights are international. I only learned of inventory control when an international reservation agent told me he/she would call inventory control to see if they would release a seat. Of course, from FT I had learned that as a CP I could call 3 days before the flight to try to confirm the upgrade. But again, it was US Airways staff that, by volunteering to call inventory call, educated me at to their existence. Since then, at the 3 day window, if the international reservation doesn't voluntarily call inventory control -- and they do 90% of the time -- without any qualms I will ask the international agent to do so.

And that's the ONLY time I ask them to do so. :) Asking them to phone inventory control for a domestic upgrade is kinda silly, if you ask me. I sure hope people doing that haven't ruined it for those of us who appreciate being able to use the Envoy lounges on the day of departure after being "inventory cleared" 3 days prior. :(

Bad news.

Spoke with the CP desk and the international folks yesterday, and they both confirmed that calls to inventory management are gone (I specifically asked about CPs and the 3 day international upgrade scenario).

This really torques me. It's not as if they even give systemwides out like candy anymore, and I really enjoy using the envoy lounge.

This basically means that I'll be doing a lot more BA WT+, and much less US over the pond :td: :mad: .

Just landed in CLT about an hour ago off the San Diego redeye. Got upgraded last night at the gate in SAN.

Here's what's odd, however: When I checked with the GA she told me there were *nine* open F seats on the SAN-CLT A320 with no one ahead of me on the standby list, yet for some reason my upgrade didn't clear until 45 minutes prior to departure!

Something must be going on with E class inventory, at least on transcons. Prior to this past week, my upgrades have always been confirmed long before departure time when there's a light load up front.

Hello,
For a CP (remember you fly 100,000 miles or 100 segments to get that status) I don't feel bad having a sense of entitlement or whatever you might want to call it. A CP is probably in the top 5% or 2% of customers. If I am in that percentile of customer, I don't feel bad or sorry at all to expect benefits not made available to others. I make rvenue available to US that others don't make available to them. I don't think CP should just be like just an Gold+ or whatever. A CP has made a real and significant commitment to this airline, and the airline should do all it can to make the CP's experience the best it can be. US has lost too much focus on the total airport/in flight experience. I grew up in a time when as a little kid the whole famikly would go to the airport to send people out, so the whole "experience" is critical, and I would say it is more important than anything else.

Also for all intents and purposes in the USA the first class cabin is now an "upgrade cabin." I would imagine there are very few people who buy F tickets, and if you bought F, you would probably not pay that $$$ for US and plastic cups. I would say 90% easily of f pax are upgraded.

Also agree that the airlines marketers "created the monster" of entitlement or whatever one may want to call it. If they trump unlimited upgrades they certainly "created the monster."

Despite any BS rules about calling inventory, as pointed out by the above post, the ATO still can call them. Res probably will follow this to the letter but the ATO if they want too still can call inventory. ATO=much more authority and discretion than res. Now inventory mgmt may be less likely to clear things now because I would imagine they too have been told not to work the records as much, but again, see the above post where an ATO cleared an upgrade. I would not recommend always doing it/bothering them all the time, but they probably can do it still.

Yes. The upgrade inventory is being restricted much more than ever in the past. BUT the same thing is going on over at UA except on sheer numbers the odds are worse for upgrades on UA because of 8 seat F Cabins on the A319, 733 and 735 cabins. Plus it seems to me over at UA, that FAs and crew are regularly upgraded to F over revenue customers with supported upgrades. Fortunately, this is not the case at US from my experience.

Its a shame we've lost some of our CP glow over requests to inventory for domestic upgrades. :td:


Just landed in CLT about an hour ago off the San Diego redeye. Got upgraded last night at the gate in SAN.

Here's what's odd, however: When I checked with the GA she told me there were *nine* open F seats on the SAN-CLT A320 with no one ahead of me on the standby list, yet for some reason my upgrade didn't clear until 45 minutes prior to departure!

Something must be going on with E class inventory, at least on transcons. Prior to this past week, my upgrades have always been confirmed long before departure time when there's a light load up front.

Did we all think that 'unlimited upgrades' for all elite levels was going to be so easy?

Of COURSE they are going to start playing games with inventory now that they don't have to keep track of all those pesky paper certs or E-Upgrades.

My opinion - US should fully exploit the F product (as crappy as it is) and get as many paying passengers up front as possible. At the right price, 1 F pax could be the equivalent of 2-3 average coach pax. That's a price many people will pay, especially business travellers who want a little more comfort for a little more $$$ than the LCC that doesn't offer an expansive FF program/aliance or decent award options for future travel.

Tom -

Try http://fs.usairways.com/abs/fareQuote.do. For example, if you want to fly PHL-PIT-LAX, try looking up PHL-LAX along with PHL-PIT and PIT-LAX. Depending on the markets, the A fare may be available for all legs PHL to LAX or perhaps just PIT-LAX. I agree, it's a pain in the neck, but luckily my corporate travel office takes care of "creating" the ticket for me.

I know that I can do that but it misses the point.

I want to book a flight from point A to point B. I enter my origin & destination and my travel dates. The engine returns a bunch of times. I pick the segments I want.

At no point does it tell me what the booking code is.

It will offer me "cheaper alternatives" but make no attempt to upsell me. Very, very late in the process I can "check the rules" and discover that I have an S fare (or whatever). Having discovered that I cannot act on an impulse that I'd actually be willing to pay for an an A (or B) fare.

While I'm willing to consider paying more for a ticket if doing so has advantage to me I'm not so willing that I'm going to do all the work for them. Especially on a web site that doesn't have the brains to handle the back button.

Compare this to booking a ticket on SWA. If I see that value in paying more and want to do so its easy. Which just might have a little bit of something to do with SWA selling a higher percentage of full fare tickets than anyone else in the industry...

Tom -

Since A fares are technically speaking First class fares, you need to price out a First class ticket, not a Coach ticket. This should yield the A fare if the market for which you are booking a ticket has a fare in that bucket.