Let me preface all of this by saying that I’m happy with AA 90% of the time – but I’ve had a couple of really lousy experiences in the past two weeks that have really frustrated me. This is just one piece of a bigger issue that I thought was appropriate for this forum.

Hey gang,

Yesterday, my boyfriend and I were traveling from TPA back to SFO on separate airlines (due to some work travel issues) – I was on Continental, and he was on American (using my miles).

There were a whole host of issues associated with his check-in at AA on this day, but I’ll limit my comments to a little background information and what I thought was an inappropriate comment about the two of us.

At the AA counter, my boyfriend ran into problems because the agent claimed he had used all flight coupons associated with the ticket. I ran over to handle the conversation between the two of them since my boyfriend’s many areas of expertise do not include the ins and outs of AAnytime awards, stopovers, open jaw tickets, and co-terminals. I was polite but insistent that AA was responsible for fixing this situation, not me. (I’ll have to ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt on this.) The agent said she couldn’t fix the situation, and went to find her manager. About 20 minutes later the two emerged.

While the agent and manager could have probably guessed that we were a couple, we certainly didn’t do anything inappropriate or, as far as I know, overtly gay.

Nevertheless, in an apparent reference to my handling of this problem (rather than my boyfriend’s) and the use of my miles for my boyfriend’s travel, the manager said “I’ve never been to California, so I don’t know what the set up is between the two of you.” I responded with something like “I’m sorry, I don’t understand” – to which she didn’t really reply, and moved onto to another subject. She made a similar comment later in the dialogue, but since this whole transaction had taken 45+ minutes and the bf was about the miss the flight, I just let it (and all the other issues) go to make sure he got home.

I know her comment wasn’t a cardinal offense, but it’s certainly not consistent with AA’s policies, and I think it was inappropriate.

My take:

I don’t think this is a big deal – I’ve heard plenty worse said before, and I have much more substantive issues to raise that I didn’t even touch today.

That said, should I at least mention this in passing in my letter to AA about other problems with this reservation? Or should I just let it slide?


[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited 04-22-2002).]

I would mention it. Not only was it inappropriate, but it also goes against their image of the "family friendly" airline that they are currently advertising.

I would also mention it. It's a service industry, and making inappropriate comments doesn't fall under the heading of service.

If she can't deal with other people having the freedom to do what they want (in a time when we're all big on pushing how much we love freedom) she should move to Egypt or Saudi Arabia or at least keep her mouth shut.

d

I agree with the others, you should mention it. Perhaps she needs a gay sensitivity training class. Hopefully you got her name.

Yup, I got her name -- and I'll drop AA a line. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overreacting...as I mentioned before, I've had a unprecedented level of lousy AA encounters in the past few weeks and I wanted to make sure I wasn't taking the comments too seriously given my recent experiences.

Thanks for your thoughts.

While I agree with the other posters, I want to mention that your note to AA about the agent's comments may very well get lost amid the other service-related issues you will be raising in your letter to AA. It sounds as if the letter runs the risk of being quite lengthy.

I'm concerned that if your letter has too many details, the reader will only respond to a few key points. Perhaps a separate letter would be effective in highlighting the foolish comments made by the ticket agent. Finally, if you want something from AA, be sure to ask for it and not assume AA will know how to make you happy.

FF makes a great point about keeping compliant letters short and to the point. If you can summarize it in 3 bullet points and still include the comments as directly supportive of one of the bullet points then include it, but otherwise, it might make sense to leave it off.

It's a serious service problem that deserves to be complained about, but you have to decide which were the three greatest harms you suffered in what sounds like many harms.

Good Luck!

quick background info: I was on the board of directors of the gay and lesbian group at united... we worked w/ the BOD of UAL to get domestic partner benefits and solicited the employee base for membership. So Ive seen how homophobic parts of UA is.

Ok....

A friend and I were on award tickets.. he was flying LAS-ORD-MCO and I was flying LAS-ORD-PBI. It was the red eye to ord on an A319.... I gave david the aisle, I took the middle, and some awesome gal from texas had the window. We were also seated in Economy Plus, as I am qualified being a Premier Exec. The flight starts out ok, the lady at the window closes the shades and starts into some polite conversation w/ david and I... she realized quickly that "we" were together... and was very cool of it... so she starts to doze off... the movie started to play on the video screens and david takes my hand and holds it on the arm rest and puts his head on my shoulder.. I lean over to kiss him and notice 2 passengers in seats A & C staring at us. I then lay my head on david's head and start to nap, when he asks (outloud) "Do you two ......s mind not doing that?" ... I kinda perk up , look over at him, then start to stand up and look around the FULL cabin of the A319 and say "well everyone else is snuggling, why can't I? I paid for my ticket like you did!"... he then fires back "I don't want to be exposed to your freak behaviors" and he then rang the flight attendant call button.

Liz comes up the aisle and leans in and listens to his complaint, looks at me, and goes back.. she comes back with a manifest (why she has it i have no clue), and talks to him some more, and goes and gets the purser. He comes back, listens to the man's complaint, then looks over at David and I, still snuggled up, and asks if there's a problem...

I then pulled out my Premier Exec card and Red Carpet club card and said (a bit louder than normal).. "Gee, I HOPE there isn't a problem.. I'd hate to stop flying United over a silly incident like this!"... the purser then looks at my cards and goes back to the guy and lady in seats A and C and asks if they'd like to be moved... he said no, why can't he move us.. the purser then followed up with "Sir, he's one of our ultra frequent flyers and he hasn't done anything to disturb any other customers, if you like, we have row XX available (last row mind you)."

The customer, who looks like he's never flown in his life, started to complain then I said outloud "Since when does UNITED permit NON FULL FARE or NON PREMIER flyers to sit in Economy Plus?" << this was proceeded w/ a "you go" from a few people sitting around us >>.

The purser then asked the customers in A and C to move to the rear of the plane if my behaviour was bothering them.

After they moved, the purser came back to me and said "Nate, you need to keep your cool too, but my partner and I are very happy for your work w/ United on the gay issues and we do appreciate your business".

heh. I guess he was a United With Pride member!

1 point for the fag
0 for the redneck

:-)

btw, i never complained to United... no need to...

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UAPremierExec:

david takes my hand and holds it on the arm rest and puts his head on my shoulder.. I lean over to kiss him and notice 2 passengers in seats A & C staring at us. I then lay my head on david's head and start to nap, when he asks (outloud) "Do you two ......s mind not doing that?" ... I kinda perk up , look over at him, then start to stand up and look around the FULL cabin of the A319 and say "well everyone else is snuggling, why can't I? I paid for my ticket like you did!"... he then fires back "I don't want to be exposed to your freak behaviors" and he then rang the flight attendant call button.
</font>

you know, the one time i've ever gotten any trouble for exhibiting such behaviour with my girlfriend was on a flight from LAS to CLE on (airline deleted for decency purposes), and i found it really funny for two reasons:

1.um, hello, we're coming from LAS VEGAS. hardly a place to avoid freaks, rot?

2.said dude had been talking very loudly about, ahem, "adult filmed entertainment" before takeoff and then decided to give my better fifth trouble for putting her head on my shoulder?

it was unpleasant, until the FA offered to tape him to the seat or he could move, because he was afraid he might try something violent. he moved, but made sure to handily remind me that i was a "lezzie" and that i "wanted to be a man" (bwahahaha!) when i went to use the bathroom.

i've discovered that nonstops back to the colonies from Vegas tend to offer a better mix of humanity. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by snorkmaster:
At the AA counter, my boyfriend ran into problems because the agent claimed he had used all flight coupons associated with the ticket. I ran over to handle the conversation between the two of them since my boyfriend’s many areas of expertise do not include the ins and outs of AAnytime awards, stopovers, open jaw tickets, and co-terminals. I was polite but insistent that AA was responsible for fixing this situation, not me. (I’ll have to ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt on this.) The agent said she couldn’t fix the situation, and went to find her manager. About 20 minutes later the two emerged.

While the agent and manager could have probably guessed that we were a couple, we certainly didn’t do anything inappropriate or, as far as I know, overtly gay.

Nevertheless, in an apparent reference to my handling of this problem (rather than my boyfriend’s) and the use of my miles for my boyfriend’s travel, the manager said “I’ve never been to California, so I don’t know what the set up is between the two of you.” I responded with something like “I’m sorry, I don’t understand” [This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited 04-22-2002).]</font>

Snorkmaster, what if you HADN'T BEEN GAY?

I am a straight man who sometimes travels with a male buddy or sports teammate/s to a tournament, most of which don't have our FT expertise. I would have done the same for my friend/ travel companion and would not have appreciated the presumtion that we must be a gay couple just beause we are 2 men traveling together.

I suppose you could have made a joke of it, in a Liberace accent: 'My boyfriend isn't the jealous type at all. He doesn't mind that I'm traveling with Mr. -------.'

------------------
Flyertalk.com ...because miles & points don't grow on trees!

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited 04-23-2002).]

I would consider sending a separate letter to AA explaining your concern over the comment. Maybe the agent did not mean anything by it, in which case it was simply inappropriate, or maybe she did in which case it is unacceptable behavior.

As for the other comment, I think it is inappropriate for anyone couple to be overtly carrying on in an airplane. There are many people who do not want to see it regardless of the type of couple.

Just as we complain about children who act up, other passangers often do not want to see couples "snuggling".

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by buterrier:
As for the other comment, I think it is inappropriate for anyone couple to be overtly carrying on in an airplane. There are many people who do not want to see it regardless of the type of couple.

Just as we complain about children who act up, other passangers often do not want to see couples "snuggling". </font>

If the people in the cases sited above actually had a problem with anyone (regardless of the couple type), they probably wouldn't have been calling the people involved negative gay-related names.

Regardless, I do see your point. While I don't have any problem with hand holding or leaning against eachother while sleeping, some people obviously take things too far.

But I wouldn't compare screaming babies to hand-holding, that's not overtly carrying-on to me (and I'm not saying that's what you said either). Hand holding is completely acceptable, if you ask me; I think it's just unecessary meddling in other people's business on the part of those who would take offense.

d

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by buterrier:

As for the other comment, I think it is inappropriate for anyone couple to be overtly carrying on in an airplane. There are many people who do not want to see it regardless of the type of couple.

Just as we complain about children who act up, other passangers often do not want to see couples "snuggling". </font>

While I agree completely that it is disrespectful to be overtly and excessively carrying on in a public space, I feel that there is a distinct difference between cuddling or laying on one another and between making out, or racing for that membership card...

On just about every flight that I have flown, I am quite sure that there were at least two people on board who were either holding hands or resting one's head on the other's shoulder. I even remember quite a few flights where a couple had taken the exact position described above, where one was laying across the row and in the lap of her boyfriend. Nobody would bat an eye at this arrangement.

It is the double standard, and outright homophobia that really causes the anger and pain. If it were an issue of cuddling that was offensive to the passenger, then I highly doubt the passenger would have taken most issue with the sexual orientation of UAPremierExec and his companion.

If the request instead were that he found the contact inappropriate simply on the merits that it was a public environment, sans nasty slurs, then I might lend more credibility to this position. However, since I also have been in similar situations, I know that, at least for myself, it has always been my sexual orientation that was at issue, and not the potential inappropriateness of expressing my love and affection for someone I care about (no matter how tame it may be) in a public space.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Happy trails....


P.S. I would just like to add that I feel really silly now after reading the final post in this thread! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif I honestly swear that I did not know as I was writing my reply that Doppy posted almost exactly the same thing (with the exact same passage quoted!) http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

(Edited to add above P.S.)

[This message has been edited by RChavez (edited 04-23-2002).]

To clarify my position..

I agree that hand holding is perfectly acceptable, and I would argue that in most cases another passenger would not even see it unless they were specifically looking for it.

I could even agree that laying one's head on the shoulder of another is okay.

I also think the appropriate reaction to the behavior would have been to quietly discussed it with the passanger and/or the FA.

I also agree that being offended because of the partner is not acceptable.

All I was trying to say is that I have seen people, regardless of couple type, behave in ways that are not only inappropriate for public places, but offensive on the merits of the behavior.

i'm normally *WAY* more descrete on planes, but the cabin was dark and there were people sprauled all over the plane, hence why I kissed him (which probably sent them over the edge)... I swear I didn't antagonize him *tongue in cheek*.

People behave differently on red-eyes than on flights in daylight. I for one will hold hands w/ my "other half" ((whenever that happens again)) but I'll normally save the cuddling for longer flights or red eyes, out of respect for others and I try not to bring attention to it.

The issue on our flight came about when the gentleman started talking louder and louder, waking everyone within a few rows. He was standing at his seat, the purser and Liz were in the aisle, david and I were just sitting there. Even our seat mate at the window said this is insane, why can't people just sleep...

I was getting a bit angry at the entire scenario, which is why I sorta mentioned the whole "non qualifying" passenger in Economy Plus....

No one else seemed to mind around us... the guy ahead of us said "good job", the lady across the aisle and back a row gave us a thumbs up and smiled.

But I guess we should start a thread about cuddling in flight.. see if this has happened to anyone else.

I guess if we were in First, it would have been a different scenario..

-n

Whenever I hear a comment like that, I substitute words to see if it's truly offensive to me, i.e.,

“I’ve never been to Jerusalem, so I don’t know what the set up is between the two of you.”

or

“I’ve never been to Harlem, so I don’t know what the set up is between the two of you.”

Either of the above would probably be grounds for a lawsuit. The agent's remark was completely inappropriate, bigoted, and disgusting.

P.S. I flew TPA-SFO on Sunday also! Wonder if we were ships passing in the night at the airport.

Just a reminder for snorkmaster,

AA is usually pretty proud of their verstilities and acceptance about LGBT and they have an LGBT employee organization along with ethnic employee groups. This would be a good point to tack on their service department.

FM Maniac

------------------
- I am a Freqnt Miles Maniac and a Ballroom Dance Miniac :-) -

Thanks for all your suggestions -- I think I'll attempt to draft two concise letters to AA -- one about the inappropriate comment, and another about my other customer service issues.

As an ex-AAer, I'm definitely familiar with the "if the customer doesn't ask, the customer won't receive" approach to addressing complaints, and I have easily quantifiable requests that I can make with regard to my other customer service issues. That said, I'm not quite sure how to handle the inappropriate comment. I feel pretty cheesy asking for dollar/voucher compensation (as the punishment doesn't really fit the crime) -- I think I'd rather see them send her to sensitivity training or something. Perhaps they can exile her to ramp duty in Lawton/Ft. Sill, Cape Girardeau, Lubbock, or some other hot location (just kidding -- she'd probably like that too much anyway.) Any thoughts?

I'll keep you posted on the response from AA.

As a side note since the subject was introduced into the posting -- after thinking about it a bit, it seems like my boyfriend and I subconsciously back off in-flight hand-holding or shoulder-leaning unless we feel we're on a fairly progressive route (if you will), predict that one of the flight attendants plays for the team, or have worked our way through a few adult beverages before or during the flight. Perhaps I'm a bit reserved about this, but I don't particularly like enjoying seeing folks making out in flight -- straight or gay.

ps - dgolds, I was on CO 1807 from TPA-IAH -- were you as well?

[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited 04-25-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Whenever I hear a comment like that, I substitute words to see if it's truly offensive to me</font>

dgolds, I like your "litmus test" and I agree that the agent's comments were out of line and very strange. As others have pointed out, Snorkmaster and his boyfriend could have just as easily been brothers, cousins or two buddies (straight or gay) traveling together.

As for "compensation" for the agent's comments, I personally wouldn't ask for anything other than a decent explanation and/or apology. Please do let us know about the response you receive.

.....

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">ps - dgolds, I was on CO 1807 from TPA-IAH -- were you as well?</font>

Nope, I was on NW TPA-MSP flight, left at 5:20 PM.

UPDATE

After sending my letter to Customer Relations three times over three months, I finally received a response regarding this issue. The response stated that the employee in question had an “excellent customer service record” (although this wasn’t evident on my day of travel) and that after an “extensive investigation,” it was determined that she was simply saying that she’d “never been to California” – and that nothing else was intended by her remarks.

Contrary to a previous posting, I do not always “look for the worst in people,” and I have far better things to do than overanalyze ticket agents’ comments – I was simply relaying my observations based on what I experienced on the day of travel. In addition – It’s easy to say that I should have asked for clarification, but when you’re at the ticket counter trying to resolve a customer service issue, perceiving that inappropriate comments were made, holding up other individuals from checking in because every agent at the counter has been called in because no one can figure out why your reservation ticketed improperly, and watching the clock tick away down to 20 minutes ‘til departure of the last (oversold) flight of the day, seeking clarification is not necessarily the first thing to come to mind.

Anyway...

I respect American for conducting its’ investigation, and, by keeping my business with American despite how I feel about the situation, I guess I am implicitly giving the employee the benefit of the doubt.

BTW for future letter writers – I’ve never written to AA Customer Relations before, but since I had two separate customer service issues, I wrote two letters to ensure proper attention was paid to each issue – one about an issue at ORD, and one about the much more significant customer service issue at TPA with a “p.s.” of sorts about this agent’s comments. This turned out to be a bad approach because the more serious customer service issue was completely glossed over and the agent comments became the primary focus of AA’s response.

In the interest of receiving a timely and satisfying response, I’d recommend calling Customer Relations, or faxing a message to Customer Relations and following up by phone.


[This message has been edited by snorkmaster (edited 08-02-2002).]

Thanks for the update. FWIW, I was never under the impression that you "always look for the worst in people" and I found that comment puzzling when it was made by JS back in April.

Interesting story. thanks for that. People do indeed have double standards, don't they?

Personally, my experience with AA's customer service has not been good, so this story was not quite a surprise to me.