How do I dress like a local while in Paris (Between June 18 and 25)? I know in New York the dress is always black or very dark and I can imagine that shorts and t-****s would be a dead give away. Any ideas from the fashion conscious?

Dress more formally and less casually than you would in your U.S. hometown. You will find, that gentlemen who are wearing ties and jackets will receive more respect in restaurants. Women who want to dress like a local might consider wearing good accessories. Well-dressed Frenchwomen (of just about any socio-economic bracket,) always seem to have a scart tied beautifully, good shoes & good handbags). Unless, a teenager, I would leave the jeans & sweats at home. Paris is, definitely, not casual. Paris is a dress-up kind of city and lends itself to elegance. Thus, my suggestion is wear good looking walking shoes, stand up straight and adopt the french posture. You will look like a local in no time. Bon Voyage

I suppose that if you want to be taken for a businessperson, then dress as a businessperson would in a large US city: dark suit (preferably tailored), crisply-pressed shirt, and a Christian Lacroix tie if you're a man, something analogous for a woman.

If you want to be taken for a person at leisure (but not obviously American), that's where you'll find the difference. The overall theme of the outfit should be more muted than flashy, but you should still have a bit of panache somewhere -- an interesting scarf or piece of jewellery for a woman, maybe a colorful wristwatch for a man. Shoes should be smart and practical but not obvious sneakers: a nice pair of Camper shoes would be good. Once you're properly dressed, your demeanor becomes key: walk the streets as if you are the master of the city, and not with mouth agape.

Finally, remember that you can communicate virtually anything in French simply by saying "Ooh la la!" -- it can mean absolutely anything, depending on the tone of your voice (enthusiastic, surprised, derisive, shocked, etc.). Just be sure to pronounce the first syllable like the vowel sound in 'no' -- but not the one in 'new' -- and you'll be in like Flynn.

A votre service,

Wideman

If Christian Lacroix is not available, why not try a Trussardi tie?

Ooh la la! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

Well, wear black and have a few decent accessories. No trainers/tennis shoes/etc. if you're over 18.

Realistically, your haircut/hair style may give away the game.
Rich

Even though you will be in Paris in the summer, the weather can surprise you. I nearly froze to death in July. Resist any and all temptations to bring a down-filled jacket! I agree with the previous poster about wearing black. Lots and lots of black. Dressy black & casual black. A black turtleneck is essential for the casual places & if you have leather jackets, this is the time to bring them along. You also want an inside pocket to stash the Michelin & a handbag large enough (but not too big) for the Paris par Arrondisement). French women do not apply their lipstick in public (they excuse themselves after the meal & freshen up).

Some random thoughts from a man's point of view:

- American shoes of the type that seem to be in fashion now are bulkier and heavier than European ones; an easy giveaway for the sharp-eyed
- a 'French blue' dress shirt would help blend in; once again, American dress shirts are much thicker (and sturdier) than European ones
- as mentioned by rjh, for those with a full head of straight hair, a fresh American haircut might be superfluous http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif
- European men cross their legs in what would be considered an effeminate way statesides, with the 'crossed' foot near the other ankle, as opposed to near the knee
- there is enough cultural and ethnic diversity in Paris to easily blend in. However 'West coast casual' does stand out more than say New England dress in my eyes.
- not much that can be done about it, but American men who work out emphasize upper body strength and tend to have bulkier torsos than the rest of the world. Easily spotted from a distance, especially along with a crew cut.


No offense meant to anybody. For info I have lived on both East and West coasts, and in Europe.

Speaking of shoes, what's the deal with the ultra-pointy-toed women's shoes that seem to be in all the shops? Looked to me and my companion that the only way to put them on would be to chop off at least 2 and maybe 4 toes from each foot.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">... what's the deal with the ultra-pointy-toed women's shoes ... Looked to me and my companion that the only way to put them on would be to chop off at least 2 and maybe 4 toes from each foot. </font>

I bought some of these in Italy last August. Strange, aren't they? They actually extend well beyond the end of your foot. They're like an ordinary shoe with an extra 1" or so extending beyond. I thought they'd be difficult to walk up stairs in, but they're not.

Buy and wear Polo Ralph Lauren stuff (from an outlet store).
Next best thing: Wear black, black, black ...

--having just re-read this thread (and contributed)--am curious--would a first-time visitor from France ask for the same advice on visiting America--"how can I look less French?"--Ålso, why the concerns about dress, etc.? Why do we not want to look American? Do we assume, that Americans abroad, will, somehow embarass the U.S. Is there an assumption that Americans are just a bunch of uneducated, rubes, who, have no idea how to dress or eat.? I, am reluctant to address this issue--are we concerned about being identified as Americans because of a lack of sophistication? Are we, in-fact, concerned about perceived (real or not) an anti-American attitude?

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by obscure2k:
Why do we not want to look American?</font>
It's simple, "When in Rome..." http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

Having been to Paris a number of times I absolutely guarantee as an American you will be assured of being embarrassed by the behaviour of other Americans.

I am ashamed to say that on my last trip after a few days I bagan make conscious attempts to avoid my fellow countrymen.
But one cannot, you will know when they are around, they are the loudest on the trains, in restaurants, on tours etc.
Mike

[This message has been edited by MIKESILV (edited 06-09-2002).]

--I agree that there are Americans who cause others embrassment (in Paris and elsewhere). However, the question I raised concerns the attiude of visitors to America sharing the same concerns--not wanting to be identified as being from (France, etc.) and whether they make a conscious effort to appear American and share the "when in Rome" expressed by Dudemon

I think you are missing the point, obscure2k. When learning about and adopting the customs and habits of a culture that one visits, a traveller is showing courtesy, respect, and a recognition that s/he is a guest in someone else's country and culture. That is not at all the same as trying to "pass."

To respond specifically to your question, when I see tourists who appear to be non-American visit the U.S., it's not uncommon to see them trying to imitate Americans. They might be wearing T-shirts announcing that they've visited Cape Cod, but, given that they're jibber-jabbering to each other in Italian or Japanese and appearing to be having a wonderful time, it hardly strikes me that they're trying to pass as Americans.

Same thing when I visit Paris or Hong Kong. In the latter I'll use my knife and fork as the French do (and no, the bread is not used as a little snow shovel) and in the former I'll use chopsticks, but it's extremely unlikely that anyone would believe that I am passing myself off as either French or Cantonese. I'm simply trying to show respect for the people and land that I'm visiting.

Wideman--please refer to my first post on this thread where I specifically address the issue of dressing respectfully, etc. I concur that American visitors should be mindful that they are guests in a host country and should behave accordingly. For example, in France I'll filet my own fish--in America I'll have the waiter do it. In America, I'll have a martini before dinner; in France, a Kir Royale. Before leaving for any journey abroad, I educate myself re: local etiquette. Thus, while visiting Bali I am mindful of the religious customs, similarly in Moslem countries or mingling with the Masai Mara. The issue I was raising was whether foreign visitors put as much thought into adapting to our local culture as do Americans abroad. It would be highly unusual to see an American man in a coat and tie during the afteroon in Beverly Hills (if he were not conducting business), whereas. my husband always dresses much more formally in France, Tokyo, Rome, Venice, etc. In addition, I am not addressing the issue of tour groups, but independent travellers. Agreed that people in tour groups often are not as sensitive to their environment. Thus, the cheesy t-shirts, bermuda shorts, plastic shopping bags are most likely (IMHO) to be found on those getting on and off of tour buses and walking into a restaurant and demanding menus printed in their own language.

Interesting question.

Unfortunately, there is a stereotype that Americans are loud, brash, unwilling to accept that not everyone speaks English, etc. Stereotypes don't come out of nowhere, but are generally based on some truth. There are unfavorable stereotypes about most other groups too. Are people from other cultures mindful of that and do they try to conform? I suspect some do. I've certainly met people from other cultures who've gone out of their way to not conform to the stereotypes. In other cases, such as a group of tourists from a European country who insisted on pressing their faces to the windows of our rooms while we were in them in Norway basically treating us like zoo animals, there are folks who don't seem to care and just perpetuate the stereotypes. I'm always a little grateful for those folks as they make Americans look good by comparison. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

I disagree with the wearing of black in the summer. It seems that europeans adopt a more summery and preppy look, even in Paris. I would stick with small gighamy checks, nice lightweight slacks or skirts (for women) and stay in the light colored accesories. I wear a lot of facconable and it seems to work pretty well for a 30 summthin housefrau/traveller in europe.

I will never get the hair thing right and I get my haircut in London. Maybe I need to get it cut in Paris http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif for a change.

As for those cute little mules, they are really comfortable, but I would rather wear stouter shoes for those cobblestoned streets. I think I wore some sportier issues in Italy and was much relaxed about my walking.

lala

--letiole--very thoughtful post--Lalala--agree that Facconable is great for travel (or anywhere). Also, less expensive in France than U.S. Re: black: , black just works for me. Stays cleaner and always looks good & I pack fewer clothes . Re: haircut--hate to generalize, but one of the worst haircuts I have ever gotten was in Paris--one of the best in London (and the very best of all, in Rome).

[This message has been edited by obscure2k (edited 06-10-2002).]

What ever happened to the black and white stripped shirt and beret?

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AA..just plain old Platinum
Delta: Lead Medallion
AOL IM# bobcharlap
email:bob2@techie.com

"What ever happened to the black and white stripped shirt and beret?"

--Alas, they have gone the way of Truffeaut, Bunuel, Godard, Sartre,Camus--

--Dudemon-- you have initiated a great discussion-- Thanks for the original post--interested to see where this takes us-- In any event, enjoy your trip to Paris, wear lots of black, walk and then walk some more. De-bone your own fish, revel in the fact that every time you turn a corner there is yet another wonderful surprise. Dress respectfully, comfortably--Do some homework and just wander--you will love the unexpected surprises which await you. Do not be embarassed to be an American---indeed, I feel very blessed to be American (albeit, with good manners).

Yes, I think it is, but I am going to go a bit against the grain here. Dressing in Paris is an art form, much like everything else in Paris. It doesn't so much matter if you dress in black, pink, or purple, you need to be able to "pull it off" in the sense that it is stylish, chic, and fashonable. The one area that the Parisians (and I don't include the rest of the French) is that they don't wear sneakers/tennis shoes out on the street. They do at the gym and whatnot, but their shoes seem to be a big deal to them. Also gym outfits. Basically, I think the issue is appropriateness, and the fact that you are not at the gym, renders gym clothes inappropriate. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about it and would concentrate much more on your actions. For example, if you walk in indistinguishable from a Parisian and start with, "do you speak English?", you will attract much more ire than walking in with a less than stylish outfit and making an attempt at speaking French to them. This, to me, is far more of what distinguishes someone from being an ugly tourist. It is the interest in the culture (which you obviously have, or you wouldn't be asking these questions), and how much you try to learn about it, even if you can't completely assimilate. The second you open your mouth, you won't assimilate. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif But from a plain perspective, if you are from the west coast, south, middle, or country, you will have trouble looking parisian. if you are from a city on the east coast, you will have no problem.

Either way, enjoy one of the best cities on the planet.

Quote:"if you are from the west coast, south, middle, or country, you will have trouble looking parisian. if you are from a city on the east coast, you will have no problem."

--Having lived in Los Angeles my entire life, it is fair to say that I am more at ease in Paris than Orange County--Kindly clarify your reason as to why someone from the east coast would feel more at ease in Paris?--

Obviously it's up to the individual, but west coasters dress in more colors and more casually. As do a lot of other people in the country. People in the east tend to dress more conservatively, from what I can see. For example, shorts and t-shirts are very common here on the streets, and no one would really look twice about it, unless it's blatently inappropriate.

I also didn't mean that someone would feel more comfortable. I feel very comfortable there, and I don't look Parisian. For one thing, I am bigger than them. For another, I don't dress the same. I mean that someone would fit in better as far as dress is concerned, without modifying their wardrobe. In other words, whether someone has clothes in their closet that will work in Paris.


[This message has been edited by Darren (edited 06-14-2002).]

If you want to behave and speak the way French people do, go to my homepage and ask your boss to employ me... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

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http://mapage.noos.fr/fles/

You have no idea how this topic is cute and sooo flatering for us French.

Just the fact that you are thinking of this tells me that you'll do fine.

Even if you are dead wrong about the black (the 90's are over folks http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif)

[hint: think grey, beige and dark blue]

Just returned from Paris/France yesterday (Wideman thanks for all of your suggestions from a while back) and must agree that black is not nearly as popular as a couple of years ago. Follow celbrian's advice regarding colors. Gray seems to be the color of choice at the moment.

"Gray seems to be the color of choice at the moment. "
--Not everyone looks good in grey--unless, of course, one is a man or a woman of a "certain age." http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

Regarding gray, the trick is to combine it with pastel colors, especially if you're a woman (think light grey pants and lavender top).

I paid attention in the subway yesterday, and most men were wearing navy blue.

&lt;Things I do for this board... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif&gt;

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by celbrian:
&lt;Things I do for this board... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif&gt;</font>

LOL! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

My husband and I visited Paris last fall. It was his first trip and he was surprised/disappointed that everyone was not wearing berets and saying "Sacre bleu!". http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

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lennon

But there is still Camembert, Red Wine, and the Moulin Rouge.... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif
By the way, if you want to see berets, go to the south-west part of France (where the Basques live), or in any retirement home...
And yes, we have toilets in our homes, and micro-waves as well... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

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http://mapage.noos.fr/fles/

Hey grenouille, great picture, but who is that guy marring it? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dudemon:
How do I dress like a local while in Paris (Between June 18 and 25)? I know in New York the dress is always black or very dark and I can imagine that shorts and t-****s would be a dead give away. Any ideas from the fashion conscious? </font>

Black! and never wear running shoes

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I miss Canadian Airlines

Love him or leave him, pictures of a French man who has no choice to dress like a Frenchman, lest his country revolt. Again. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

Chirac and Kofi (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020627/168/1rh51.html)
Spanish Chirac (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020622/168/1qhol.html)
Chirac in Grey (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020621/170/1q9kr.html)
Chirac with a Bono (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020620/161/1q3ll.html)
What was Chirac Thinking?? (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020619/168/1pu54.html) We established that there are toilets in France, are there mirrors???
Chirac in tweed (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020610/170/1o5ka.html)

Celby, please say if you agree or not, but it seems that the colors seem to be black/grey/blue for jackets and pants, and that the color isn't really important, as long as you accessorize, baby!!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Darren (edited 06-28-2002).]

Sorry I spoiled the picture... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/frown.gif

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http://mapage.noos.fr/fles/

Darren, what have we said about posting dirty pictures on FT? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

It's interesting (well, interesting to me) that some French public swimming pools prohibit non-speedo type swim suits for men. (Observed in the south of France last year.) Even men in Rio wear USA type swim trunks/board shorts these days.
Rich

The reason is that some men wear this kind of "swimming suit" as everyday shorts... which is not the case with speedos!!! (at least, I hope so). As a swimming pool is not (yet) looked upon as a washing machine, swimming with non-speedo is prohibited in most swimming pools in France.

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http://mapage.noos.fr/fles/

I grew up in Paris, and will never forget the dreaded swimming sessions in gym class. Speedos and "swimming caps" for all the guys... I'll never forget some of the Americans (yes, it was always us Americans) who absolutely REFUSED to wear anything but knee-length suits. Of course, arguing with a Frenchman will accomplish nothing but injured pride and, in this case, wearing a speedo and swimming cap. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

JohnnyP: http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

Well, I can tell the opposite story (sort of). I remember in junior high and high school in California our coaches would come around and either snap or make us snap our jockstraps to verify we were following school rules and wearing one! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/eek.gif

I've told this story many times to Frenchmen (and women) and they can't believe:

1) they made us wear jockstraps
2) they verified!

VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!

[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 07-17-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by blairvanhorn:
JohnnyP: http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif


I've told this story many times to Frenchmen (and women) and they can't believe:

1) they made us wear jockstraps
2) they verified!


[This message has been edited by blairvanhorn (edited 07-17-2002).]</font>
and I can't believe it... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

Blair, so many things about you make sense to me now!... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by blairvanhorn:
Well, I can tell the opposite story (sort of). I remember in junior high and high school in California our coaches would come around and either snap or make us snap our jockstraps to verify we were following school rules and wearing one! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/eek.gif

I've told this story many times to Frenchmen (and women) and they can't believe:

1) they made us wear jockstraps
2) they verified!</font>

This statement makes my head spin on so many levels!

and to add another twist, in elementary school and junior high school in the US, we were not allowed to wear anything at all at school swim lessons at the Boys Club. (I guess I am dating myself here.) Try that now.

In Taiwan last year, had a big battle with a lifeguard who insisted I could not swim in my knee length swim trunks, I must have a speedo. I already knew to have a bathing cap. What was strange was that the lifeguard was wearing those red/orange knee length lifeguard trunks, but all the swimmers had speedos. Eventually he relented, but you really don't want to see me in a Speedo. I guess it is an effective way of keeping the Americans out of the pool.

Last winter in Paris, I wore black Rockport walking shoes (sneakers in disguise) and black, navy blue, and khaki chinos. Only the khaki made me feel out of place. I am sure I didn't fool anyone, but to be truthful, the Parisians were extremely hospitable and went out of their way to show us around.

Ok, we can leave the speedo discussion blessedly behind as winter is approaching and the plage along the river has now migrated to the Sahel.

It's cold and raining, what would the well dressed Parisian's outerwear be?

My pathetic attempt, based on last February's observations, would be something like: dark Barbour jacket or wool coat; no hat for males; scarf with coat. Umbrella ok with waiver.

Leather and jeans (and leather jeans) ok for those with sufficient antifreeze, in 20-30 age range. Fashion police will cite those &gt; 30, however.

Yours in wishing to harmonize with local culture, at least in Paris and Bangkok,
Rich