My family and I are making our third trip to Paris in mid-June. Without a doubt, Paris is our favorite city to visit. We will start in the UK and probably end up in Stuttgart to visit brother-in-law. In that regard, what are some of the things we might have missed in our previous trips to Paris. We have seen most of the major attractions, but not all. We will be there for 4 days (possibly more) and were wondering what some of the more experienced Paris visitors (or those who live there) might suggest that we do.

Thanks for any advice.

Indeed. Some random suggestions:

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/starsmilie.gif Now that you've been to the tourist places, head for where the Parisians hang out. An especially good place is one of the pedestrian zones, such as the Rue Cler. These are traffic-free streets lines with shops, restaurants, and cafés, and they're fantastic for people-watching and just hanging out. The Rue Cler is near the Eiffel Tower, and there are several other similar streets throughout the city – ask your hotel concierge for the nearest one.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/starsmilie.gif When you're tired of hanging out with the living, go visit the dead. Parisian cemeteries are fascinating: the tombs are often works of art. The Père LaChaise cemetery is the most famous, both for its beauty and its residents. The latter includes Molière, Jim Morrison, Edith Piaf, and many, many others. As interesting as the people cemeteries might be, I find the pet cemetery even more fascinating. It's in Asnières, a few steps from the Asnières métro stop. More than a few people visit their dogs and cats regularly, sprucing up the graves with fresh flowers. Lots of photos and inscriptions on the tombs—one that I especially remember said "Deceived throughout my life by men, but never by my FrouFrou." And for celebrity hounds, Rin Tin Tin is buried there.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/starsmilie.gif 2 museums that maybe you didn't catch on your earlier visits, plus 1 that you probably did: If you like impressionism, the Musée Marmottan in the 16th arrondissment is a delight. It's small and off the beaten track, but it houses some wonderful paintings, esp. late Monets and Pissaros. If it's a lovely day and you want to enjoy art but not be inside, check out the Musée Rodin on the left bank. It's nothing special inside, but there's an outdoor courtyard filled with wonderful sculpture; you find yourself in a quiet enclave while the city hurries by on the other side of the garden walls. Finally, try this for the Musée d'Orsay: Be in line early so that you're among the first ones in (it opens at 9:45), then head immediately up to the top floor at the far end. Take in the whole museum with your eyes, and watch and listen as the sight and sound builds from an opening quiet to a bustling crescendo. It's an amazing process that takes about an hour, and it's well worth the effort.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/starsmilie.gif Go to Berthillon on the Ile St.-Louis for some sorbet or ice cream. Repeat this every day you can.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/starsmilie.gif Enjoy a movie. Movies are just more fun in Paris than anywhere I know. Be sure to get there for the advertisements and previews – the ads are extraordinary. There are always plenty of American and British films being shown. All non-French movies are labeled as either v.o. or v.f. – the v.o. has the original language and subtitles, the v.f. is dubbed into French.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/starsmilie.gif Get a great view of the city for free, and with no standing in line. Go to Samaritaine department store, and head up to their rooftop café. You don't have to buy anything (though the tables are reserved for people who do), and you get an extraordinary view of the city.

Rockdoc: This is a very vague question! What have you done previously? Do you like museums? Restaurants? Cafés? Shopping? Theater? Etc.

There is so much to do and see in Paris, even if you have visited many times. Give us a hint as to what you might enjoy and we'll take it from there.

Posted to add:

Listen to Wideman! He has a very good sense of Paris and always gives good advice.

OMNI to Wideman: Isn't one of your preferred hotels here the Hotel de Vigny? If so, they are doing promotions right now (read about it in the IHT on friday).

Thanks for the kind words BvH (and regrets if I've stuffed the capitalization).

Nope, I've never stayed at the Vigny, and would generally prefer staying elsewhere in town. Opera/Madeleine or Marais on the Right, anywhere between Odeon and Montparnasse on the Left.

Next trip probably isn't until May, but it should be a doozy (The Producers in NYC, Concorde via LHR to Amsterdam for 3 days, then 3 more in Paris).

Wideman thanks for the suggestions. The Musee d'Orsay was certainly on our list.

Blairvanhorn, sorry to be so vague. We have done the Eiffel Tower, Invalides, Notre Dame, Arc de Triumph and walked the Champs E lysees from front to back. Have been out to Versailles (although only had time to do the house).

I have two boys 10 and 14 who will be with us. They are both seasoned travellers having been to Europe six or seven times and with me to Peru on a couple of occassions. We like to walk and see things that the average American tourist might not typically see. My wife loves to window shop and we always try to bring back some interesting art (particularly watercolor paintings) from the places we visit. We love finding restaurants that interest the entire family (i.e., tey cannot be so fancy as to bore the boys). Any cafe suggestions for a great meal? We have seen only parts of the Louvre and have done very litle in the Latin Quarter.

We will be staying at the Hyatt Madeleine and know that area reasonably well.

Gotta run to the office, but hope this helps some. I will add a bit more later.

Speaking of things to do....

Wideman I love your idea about getting a great view of Paris. I will do as you suggested and go to the top of the Samaritaine.

One thing I have incredibly little patience for is waiting on line. NYC has something called "CityPass" for one price, you can get unlimited admission to six or so tourist sites/museums for a fixed period of time. The beauty of this pass is the fact that one can bypass the lines.

I've got to think that there is something similar to this in Paris. I want to go to the Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, Tour Eiffel, Versailles, and Musee Cluny. Is there a type of tourist pass I can purchase? Will my hotel (Holiday Inn St Germain de Pres) offer it for sale?

Another question (I've got so many!): Can I go to Versailles and the Chartre Cathedrel the same day? Someone told me that I could take the same train to both. Just curious.

For my window shopping cravings, where is Chanel and Hermes? Can I go to those shops the same day I see the Arc de Triomphe? It looks like I'll be relying quite a bit on the concierge. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
For my window shopping cravings, where is Chanel and Hermes? Can I go to those shops the same day I see the Arc de Triomphe? </font>

Keep in mind that most designers have multiple shops. The most exclusive are for their couture lines: this is the stuff that is 1-of-a-kind and that no one can afford. Many designers have their couture shops on the Avenue Montaigne, which intersects the Champs-Elysees not far from the Arc de Triomphe. Montaigne is probably the best street for preposterously-priced stuff. However, the best street for only semi-preposterously-priced stuff is the rue du Faubourg St-Honoré, again not too far from the Champ-Elysees. Window shopping there can easily take a day, assuming that you stop regularly for a coffee and a bonne chose, which you more or less have to do or why go to Paris in the first place?

Very close to the Holiday Inn St GdP is the Place St Sulpice. It's a lovely little square, a quiet spot a block away from the busy rue de Rennes, and the window shopping there includes Christian Lacroix's couture shop.

The less expensive lines are the pret-a-porter clothes, and no one can afford those, either. They also come in sizes that no one can fit in to. However, you'll find them all over town.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Analise:
Speaking of things to do....


One thing I have incredibly little patience for is waiting on line. NYC has something called "CityPass" for one price, you can get unlimited admission to six or so tourist sites/museums for a fixed period of time. The beauty of this pass is the fact that one can bypass the lines.

I've got to think that there is something similar to this in Paris. I want to go to the Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, Tour Eiffel, Versailles, and Musee Cluny. Is there a type of tourist pass I can purchase? Will my hotel (Holiday Inn St Germain de Pres) offer it for sale?
</font>

Yes, there is a musee carte. You can purchase it at the Metro stations throughout the city or at the Louvre on the ground floor. WARNING though - make sure that the museums are NOT on strike. These cards are wonderful but non-refundable! When I was last in Paris in October, many people had purchased the cards only to find out that because of the strikes each day they couldn't use them and couldn't get any of their $$ back. These are available based on the number of days that you are going to be visiting. They allow you to go to the "front of the line" in each place. Some museums do not participate, but most of them do. If you are planning on visiting many museums and monuments then this is well worth your $$ to obtain one.

Also, Galleries Lafayette and Printemps carry many of the name brands that you're looking for. They also do detaxe for you so if you spend over 1200 FF (don't know the Euro conversion) in one day you receive your VAT back which totals ~13% I believe. The Hermes store is lovely to walk through though.

Some of my favorite things to do in Paris include the following:

Ste. Chapelle. Just wonderful! The stained glass windows tell a story in each pane.

Wine Museum (at the Passay metro). This was fun. Nothing like having something to drink while you learn about wine making. If you're visiting that way, it's a nice stop.

The Opera House. I had been to Paris 8 times before I ever had the opportunity to visit the inside of this place. Exquisite! Getting to see a performance was even more fun! The foyer reminds me of the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles.

Boat ride on the Seine at night. Different way of seeing Paris (some of it not that nice. . .). Take one of the smaller bateauxs though. It's really fun - your kids will like it a lot.

Invalides. Fascinating. The gardens, the war "stuff", Napolean's tomb. I enjoyed this quite a bit and I'm not a military person at all. Very fascinating.

The gardens throughout Paris. Buy a baguette, some cheese, olives, and just sit and people watch for an hour or so. *sigh* There are also "boat races" that your kids could participate in in some of the gardens e.g., Tuilieries.

Hope these ideas help.

List of museums accepting Carte des Musées (http://www.museums-of-paris.com/list-museum-pass.htm). Most museums sell it too, I recall getting it in the d'Orsay's gift shop.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Analise:
Can I go to Versailles and the Chartres Cathédrale the same day? Someone told me that I could take the same train to both.</font>

There are 3 stations in Versailles:

- the RER station which is closest to the château, and is the end station for the RER C. This is the most convenient but slowest way of getting to Versailles (40 min), however the walk is shorter and so are the chances of getting lost

- the SNCF Versailles-Chantiers station, which is a stop on the Paris Montparnasse-Chartres line. About 50 min for Versailles-Chartres, 25 min for Montparnasse-Versailles

- the SNCF Versailles Rive Droite station, where trains run to Paris St-Lazare (25 min)


You would save about 50 minutes in transportation time by visiting Versailles and Chartres in one day.

If the line at Versailles is as long as it used to be, this will be a very long day http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/frown.gif
Try to get a ticket beforehand, there are some combined train + entrance deals available.

[This message has been edited by monahos (edited 01-28-2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by monahos:
If the line at Versailles is as long as it used to be, this will be a very long day http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/frown.gif

Try to get a ticket beforehand, there are some combined train + entrance deals available.</font>

Where can I get these combined train/entrance deals? I'd love to save any times on line. From my concierge perhaps?

Thanks for the heads up about shopping. Ridiculously enough, I had hoped to pick up a Chanel handbag but I'm not going to pay months of Manhattan rent in order to do this! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif Any recommendations for a shop in which I can purchase perfume which also won't place me in the poor house in perpetuity?

And don't forget the Parisian PARKS!

They're ALL wonderful. Visit a new one each day!

Kathy

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Analise:
Where can I get these combined train/entrance deals? I'd love to save any times on line.
</font>

http://idf.sncf.fr/FR/TouSom.htm#vers

No english page here. In short:
- you can skip the line http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif
- ticket validity is one season, no need to buy a ticket for a specific day
- this offer is on sale at some 50 SNCF sales points in the Paris area. I suppose this means going to a train station, unless you have a very helpful concierge


Also available are e-tickets (http://versailles.entechfrance.com/etickets/EN/default.asp?SID=37285,8811458333-68663) for entrance to Versailles only.

Since you will be travelling with two boys, I know the will enjoy a visit to the Catacombs.
Also visit Bois de Boulogne, you can rent rowboats for use on the lakes but best of all visit Longchamp racecourse the most beautiful track in the world, being all turf (grass) make the place even more so, even if you not a horserace fan you will love the place, the fact that you may see the best horses in Europe (and the world) is additional bonus.

One other museum/garden I loved was sculpture gardens in the Musee Bourdelle.
Mike

I have to second the Wine Museum; it's off the beaten path (at least when I went--I was the only one there). Your sons might enjoy a visit to FNAC (book/music superstore) or the Virgin Megastore (in the Louvre Metro stop). Both have listening stations where you can hear the latest in French & other Euro pop, rap, etc. An "authentic" non-American experience might include a short trip to one of the many towns in the Ile-de-France. I stayed in Antony (about 10 min from the St Michel Metro stop on the RER B), which has a large public market and a central shopping district right near the train station. You'll find some interesting chocolate shops, brasseries & bakeries as well as a Monoprix (the chain supermarket, which in itself is a cultural experience). There's a large lycee nearby so the main street is packed with young French kids hanging out.

Best view of Paris (imo) is off the top of the Tour Montparnasse. If you haven't been to the Musee d'Orsay, it is a must visit. Even if you don't like art, the building is worth a trip on its own. One place that I didn't see anyone mention is the Cite des Sciences (Science museum). A *bit* further out (still in the ring), but worth the trip.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Another question I had was about street markets. What are the better ones to visit if looking for food and various odds and ends (collectables/antiques)?

The Rue Cler gets my vote. Superb food. See Rick Steves site.



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JBC
If it is to be, it is up to me

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rockdoc:
What are the better [street markets] to visit if looking for food and various odds and ends (collectables/antiques)? </font>

Oh, there's certainly one best choice here: the flea market (http://www.les-puces.com/) (marche aux puces) at St Ouen, at the northern edge of the city. It's open only on Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, and it's block after block of amazing stuff. You'll find clothing, antiques, bric-a-brac, furniture, miniature cars, and more things than you would have believed could exist. It's crowded with a good mix of tourists and locals, mostly open-air, and a great deal of fun.

To get there, take the metro to Porte de Clignancourt, then follow the signs and crowds to the market (about 2 blocks from the metro station).

Edited to add the Web site link.

[This message has been edited by wideman (edited 02-08-2002).]

No place specifically, but while my wife and I were there we particularly enjoyed venturing into one of the "quarters" and sitting on a sidewalk cafe. Here you get the true flavor of Paris and its' people. To make the experience even more enjoyable, speak the language, even if it is bad, and you will find the people in these neighborhoods very friendly. We even got invited to go back to a local couples house to share a bottle of wine.

good luck
Charlie