It seems like I'm finally about to settle with Travelocity about my three TLL-MEL tickets, and will be flying to OZ in early August along with my mom and younger sister.

Other than visiting BNE and MEL (relatives at both), we don't have much on the agenda. We plan on flying into MEL and returning from BNE (unless someone here suggests otherwise).
We're planning to spend 2-3 weeks in Australia.

Although we've been all over the U.S. and Europe, we have never been to that part of the world before. Where should we go other than the two cities mentioned above?

We like both city/cultural stuff and the outdoors. My mom likes snorkeling. We'd like to keep costs reasonable.

Oh, and suggestions on best way to get around (car, train, bus, Virgin Blue, etc.) are appreciated.

Looking forward to the good advice http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Yonatan

So little time, so many possibilities.

From Melbourne, consider driving the Great Ocean Road. I've done that 3 times, the most recent in 1999, spending nights in Port Campbell and Portland. There are quite a few sights along the coast (Twelve Apostles, Loch Ard) as well as small towns, that make it a worthwhile trip. If you dropped the car off in Adelaide, you could fly out from there, or it would take a day to get back to Melbourne via an inland route. Allow at least 3 days for this.

From Brisbane, I'd drive 90 minutes north to Noosa. They have great beaches there, and a national park with nice trails. This is up on the Sunshine Coast.

Do you have any frequent flyer miles? I always book Ansett travel with United miles. You could do open jaw award travel from Adelaide to Alice Springs (visit Ayers Rock, Olgas, Kings Canyon on a 3 day tour), and end up in Brisbane (or Maroochydore, which is closer to Noosa).

theres nothing wrong w/ port douglas or cairns or tasmania, un fortunatly, you don't have much time. we have relatives in mel & are planning to go back in oct. i'll watch this thread for ideas.

Travelling within Australia is really cheap and if you're into it you also accrue miles.

Check qantas.com.au and buy your tickets there.

Visit Adelaide which is a short hop from MEL. You can book a chauffeur for a wine tour of Barrosa valley for some of the best wines in the world. You can also go to Cleland National Forest and play with Roos, Emus and Koalas. Another roo stop is Kangaroo Island.

Sydney.

Need I say more???

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Seriously, you can't visit Australia without spending at least 5 days in Sydney, unless you've done it all before. I know, I'm biased but...

Tom911 has said it well, AGAIN, Great Ocean Road is really wonderful, but get a decent 6 cylinder car in order to have a good time driving. It's windy and in winter, it could be wet and frosty. I would give it 4 days, however. Give yourself 3 days to get to Adelaide via the coast and 1 day for the inland route. The coast is too scenic to rush.

Noosa is good, Gold Coast is glitzy and all but is overcrowded and just a nice beach, to be honest. If you like golf, the Gold Coast is good.

Book airfares on the internet when you get here, it's cheap and it's convenient. Depending on your current scheme, use AN or QF. If neither fit (like you're a Skyteam or Wings member), just pick one and join for future US travel.

If you need any more help, I'm sure a fellow Aussie will help you. I'm biased as you've probably guessed. I'll keep plugging Sydney until someone tells me to stop http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Regards,

Clement

Lots of great tips, and plenty of new questions!

Flights:

It seems none of the programs with which we have miles have awards for domestic travel in Australia http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif. I looked at qantas.com.au and they do seem to have some good fares for one-way domestic flights. Will I still be able to get such low fares as it gets closer to August? Is it generally cheaper to buy off the airlines' websites rather than travelocity/expedia?

Rental car:
How do I get the best prices? Is it usually expensive to drop the car off in a different city than where I picked it up? Do conditions in winter usually require chains? Anything else we need to know about driving in Australia? Is gas going to be a major expense?

Where to go:
1. Where's a good place to go to learn about the aboriginal cultures?

2. How far north of Brisbane do we need to go to get to good snorkeling sites? If we can get a return from CNS instead of BNE, should we take it even if it might add a bit to our airfare?

3. Is it worthwhile to go to Tasmania if we can only spend 2-3 day there?

4. What are the options for getting to Ayers Rock from Alice Springs?

We had some rain when we did the Great Ocean Road in August, 1999, so that is a consideration. Of course, we had some great pub food and Australian beers that made up for the few times we had to deal with the rain. Just made it a little more interesting to drive. We came prepared with rain gear, so it wasn't too bad, and the rain was more of a light mist when we did run into it.

If you make Torquay your first stop, it is home to some surf companies and they have discount outlets here if you're looking for anything from backpacks to wetsuits. We stopped in Geelong for breakfast, which has a nice pier on the waterfront, and a merry go round in a new pavilion that they were just finishing up last September when I was there.

The Northern Territories tourist office has a web site with tours listed. If you fly into Ayers Rock, there's a pass good for 24 hours that will get you to Uluru at sunrise or sunset, as well as to the Olgas mountain range. If you fly into Alice, some of the companies do 3 day tours which include Kings Canyon, which is a good hiking place and offers panoramic views, an addition to the sights offered from Ayers Rock. If you are limited in time, I'd just fly into and out of Ayers Rock. I've done it both ways on different Australia trips (I preferred the longer tour from Alice Springs, as I also spent 2 nights there).

NTTC: http://www.nttc.com.au/

If you do make it to Sydney (yes, I go there each trip, too), the Blue Mountains would be a great day trip out by train. Unfortunately, you'll be there right in the middle of winter, and it will be below freezing at night. If you have sunshine in Sydney, this would be a good day trip. If it is raining or rain is forecast, I'm not sure I would head up this way.

I cannot imagine a trip to Australia without visiting Sydney. It's worth even going for two or three days.

I also spend a few days in Queensland each trip to snorkle - again, I've had friends spend just three days in Cairnes or Port Douglas and were able to get enough diving and snorkling in.

I've bought tickets on Ansett (one way and RT) the day before and have been able to get extremely low "Tourist" fares.

The Great Ocean Road is wonderful, as you've read in the earlier posts. Actually, I can't think of anywhere I've been in Australia that I haven't enjoyed.

G'day Yonatan

I'm sure you realise the distances within Australia. My friend visited from England and wanted to "go round oz" in three weeks via bus. I had to educate her as to where Perth was in relation to the more "tourist" cities, and just how far those cities were from each other.
I'd recommend Melbourne & Sydney as definates. I love Cairns - so much variety. For Reef with snorkelling choose Sunlover or Quicksilver (for an extra treat take a chopper ride). Kuranda train with the sky lift for rainforest.
Ayers Rock has it's own airport, so you can bypass Alice Springs if you want.
I was very lucky when I was there in January 2000, as it rained for the 4 days prior to my arrival, and flooded the roads. No way in, no way out. People were stranded, if they were not flying from Ayers airport. Lots of disgruntled tourists.
So many places, so little time.
Whatever you do, I know you will not be disappointed, and will want to return for more.
I like to read the lonely planet web site - although the travellers are usually backpackers, I get ideas on what to do and what not to do.
Enjoy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I was in Australia in "winter" 1995. Their winter is mild. Was there for 3 weeks and did not even get to Ayers Rock or the West.
The itinerary included Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane(Gold Coast) and Cairns.

You have to include Great Ocean Road/Sydney/ and I would say definitely Cairns- especially if you're going snorkeling. Also go to a game of Aussie Rules Football in the Melbourne Cricket Ground. An experience like Ive never had before. And a trip to Australia is NOT complete without going to the Sydney Opera House (theres more than Opera there).

I dont think there are any other options besides flying to get to Ayers Rock/Alice Spring.

I also took a trip to Blue Mountains. Another recommendation is Lizard Island (dont remember if that was near Brisbane or Cairns.) or Frasier Island. Kuranda / Kakadu are also good bets.

Great country and vacation. Wish I could go back soon.

[This message has been edited by ljp99 (edited 06-25-2001).]

G'day Yonatan!

I'll just answer your questions quickly:

1) You should be able to continue to get fares for cheap travel within Australia, if Virgin Blue stays on its feet.

2) Yes, it is expensive, if you drop the car off in Adelaide after having taken it from Melbourne, it's expensive. Unless you go to the high country, no, you don't need chains. Gas is about 90c/litre, which is roughly $3.60 a gallon (?). That's Australian dollars. You will need about 1 and 1/2 tanks in a V6 powered car to get to ADL by the coast road. On the inland, it's about 1 tank (depending on which car of course).

3) Tasmania is better than 2-3 days. Come back for more. Northern Territory is best fo Aboriginal culture.

If you want any more tips, email me.

Regards,

Clement

Wow, thanks for all the tips.

tom911: If I take the train to the Blue Mountains, what station should I get off at?

What are these tourist fares that baglady mentioned, and how do I get ´em?
I assume there isn´t much risk of domestic flights getting full if I wait to book?

Yonatan

Look at www.qantas.com (http://www.qantas.com) for the redE fares. You can get one way Fares for under USD30 from melb to Syd for example.

Great Ocen road is great, remember it is mid winter so be prepared for cold and rain.

OZ is SOOO cheap that you may want to splurge. As an example the Park Hyatt in Sydney is about USD220 a night and it would beat ANY Hyatt I have stayed in in the US (apart from hawaii).
Generally prices are in dollars the same as U.S except you get two of ours for one of yours!!

Also if you like Washington type of towns, you may like to stop at Canberra, which is a 3 hour drive from Sydney. Good Art Galleries, museums etc.


Blue Mountains train stop is Katoomba.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by yonatan:
tom911: If I take the train to the Blue Mountains, what station should I get off at?

</font>

Katoomba is the station you will need to get off at if you go the Blue Mountains. As already mentioned, it is very, very cold up there. If it's raining, I wouldn't go. Some great hotels in the Blue Mountains if you decide to stay the night are:
1) The Hydro Majectic (fantastic old-world hotel)
2) Carrington (old-world, real atmosphere)
3) The Fairmont (if you crave a modern, 4*, convention hotel)

You really need 5+ days or so in the Sydney area. There is SO much to do!

Rail schedules to Katoomba are at:

http://www.cityrail.nsw.gov.au/timetables/index.htm

You'll want to take the Blue Mountain line.

Australia is such a big place all you are never going to be able to do everything that is suggested in 2-3 weeks.
Do some reading books websites , lonelyplanet.com.au, or any websites on Australia.
Virgin Blue keep fares cheap on the routes that they serve, SYD-MEL-BNE-ADL for all carriers. As usual the cheaper the fare the more conditions, Virgin not so restrictive conditions, Cairns and Ayers Rock aren't included so the fares are higher. Virgin Blue are low cost so anything you want onboard, drinks, food and head phones on the 737-700series, cost. Web specials on Qantas are Ansett are available but as you get closer to travel the options for fares on the cheap fares are very limited.
Ayers Rock would be good for aboriginal culture but its hard to get to. No direct Brisbane - Ayers Rock service have to go via Sydney.
If you relatives live close to the city then you probably won't need a car, but if you travel outside the city or decide to travel by road between cities then a car is required. The government in aust has tried fairly hard to give us citizens a good public transport system in all of the major cities.
In Brisbane where I live most of the sites and attractions are outside of Brisbane itself, either Gold Coast(south) or Sunshine Coast(north) which are about an hour away.
Cairns would be the best for snorkelling as the great barrier reef is closest at Cairns.
Melbourne temps, usually 5(40)-15(60) and wet while Brisbane 10(50)-20(68)dry, Cairns further north is warmer again, so pack according.
Hope this helps and that you enjoy your trip.

A couple of years ago we flew into Alice from Cairns, rented a Toyota Land Cruiser, and drove to Ayers Rock. On the way we stayed a night at Kings Canyon (where I saw the greatest lightening show of my life). After Ayers we drove back to Alice and took the "Ghan" train to Adelaide.

This was an excellent itinerary, but you are a slave to the calendar, as the "Ghan" runs only a couple of times a week. The road to Kings Canyon was unpaved part of the way, so a 4X4 is needed as a precaution. The Land Cruisers that Hertz in Alice had were only manual shift, BTW, but were very easy to drive. Also fuel (diesel) was significantly higher in the Outback, then in the major cities.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by yonatan:

Is it generally cheaper to buy off the airlines' websites rather than travelocity/expedia?</font>

Buy off the website and make sure you play around with different combinations like if you want to go from SYD-OOL (Gold Coast) then your chances of getting the A$66 fare are fairly limited but if you try for the same fare on SYD-BNE route then you are very likely to succeed. OOL is a mere hours drive from BNE. Or if you want to go from BNE-SYD and can't get a fare then why not try BNE-MEL-SYD which will work out still cheaper as an e-fare as opposed to discount coach fare.

As fare as rental cars go then there are various deals around. You can get a medium car for about A$50 per day or a 4X4 for about A$120 (rates differ). You don't need chains unless you go into Snowys and you can rent them from Jindabyne anyway. If you are travelling with two other people then IMO car would be the best mode of transport for you. A good family size wehicle goes for about A$60 per day. Smaller places offer even better deals. Roads are generally good, so a trip from SYD-BNE takes about 8 hours, SYD-MEL 6,5 hours, SYD-CAN 2 hours. Also is worth mentioning that tourists don't get booked by police for speeding http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif , so you can "floor" it.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"> Where to go:
1. Where's a good place to go to learn about the aboriginal cultures? </font>

Plenty of places which are mentioned in various tourist handbooks. Unofficially of course there's always Redfern station and its surrounds in Sydney... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
4. What are the options for getting to Ayers Rock from Alice Springs?</font>

IMO you would be better off driving as far as price and comfort goes. Rent a Ford Fairlane or GMH Statesman or Toyota Landcruiser and there's plenty of room inside to sleep, eat and play ballgames. Besides, you'll have to rent a car from the Alice anyway to get around to see most of the attractions.

If you are going to fly to Ayers Rock from Melbourne, consider stopping over in Coober Pedy. A few years ago you could fly in, stay overnight and catch a flight the next day. Coober Pedy is a really cool opal mining town. About a third of the residents live underground. There are hotels/motels that are underground and a church. You can take a tour of the countryside and of a mine as well. There is(was?) a character living there who Crocodile Dundee was based on. He has 'decorated' his house/cave in a most unusual manner, using whatever junk has come to hand to create sculpture as part of his walls & ceilings. Years ago I saw a short TV special on him and his domicile. I went to visit, and can attest that it's definitely interesting to see. Try to work it into your schedule.

Ayers Rock is highly recommended. If you can see Kings Canyon outside of Alice Springs that would be nice too. In Alice Springs you can take a camel tour along the riverbed to a winery. The river exists only during the wet season.
Also try to see something of the Great Barrier Reef, the further north the better. It's truly impressive.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by yonatan:
...My mom likes snorkeling... </font>

If that's the case, then definitely go visit the Great Barrier Reef. You can make a side trip from Brisbane to Hamilton Island, or another island in the Whitsunday group.

I would also take tom911's suggestion in visiting Ayers Rock - Uluru, Olgas, Kings Canyon. I went hiking there last September and the sights were spectacular. It's better to fly to Ayers Rock directly. You can buy an air+hotel package with either Ansett or Qantas within Australia. Same with Hamilton Island.

How I would love to be able to do both again soon!

Why has no one yet mentioned the Llama Farm in Cooma?

It's not cheap but I think they give you a discount if you get a two-day pass.

From Mel to Bris some of the best places are also the places that the bus doesn't go.

Grab a car and cruise.

Also Jervis Bay south of Sydney is good for snorkling - check out Green Patch (keep it hush hush)